More adjustments need to be made please.

[ailen]

<p>time will tell how this works out...  I don't agree with how much damage is being reduced for mages.</p><p>but....</p><p>as I said before many times, the game is too extreme... has been for a long time.</p><p>for the past 2 months anyone that wasn't a mage has had to endure one of the dumbest expansion releases of all time.  Now, more adjustments need to be made. </p><p>Healing power needs to be reduced...  no reason for healers to stand and live forever. </p><p>Up mage dps "some" and reduce healing power... reduce autoattack damage...  </p><p>Fights need to last long enough to make rational decisions about how to win and forcing people to actually have to group to get other classes abilities to survive, but not so long that nobody dies.</p><p>Anyone that wants it like it was 2 days ago is insane...</p>

[Yimway]

<p>Heals are greatly reduced by stacking mutilation procs on your target.</p><p>Mage dps can still be quite sportily, particularly when coordinated debuffing occurs, however if your group doesn't cordinate to lower resists to key damage types, yeah, your abilities are severely capped against a well geared target.</p><p>Try some pre-mades and some coordination, and see where your numbers come out to.</p><p>In general in the dozen matches I did lastnight, t1 mage classes are still topping parses, just not by the gross numbers they were previously, and in premades where we coordinated to max nox debuff a target, it went down extremely quickly.</p>

[Disma]

<p>What you aren't understanding is a healer is suppsed <strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">to keep 6 players alive </span></strong>so yes 1 or 2 people beating on a solo healer will have a hard time killing them, but at the same time that healer won't kill you either.</p>

[ailen]

<p>WRONG</p><p>A healer should have to require the protection a tank should provide to keep them alive.  Mages should have to have a tank taunting for them and a healer healing, to keep people from killing them.</p><p>It used to be like this.  I could literally fight forever with my wife's warden, by MAKING the other people beat on me if I was good enough to taunt them off.  If they got on her, we both died.</p><p>People are disconnected with reality now.  They said they code this game for group v group balance, but that's just not the case.</p><p>3 people beating on a solo healer should mean its death, I don't care who it is.</p><p> THE SUM of the parts should be GREATER than the individual pieces.  Period.</p><p>that is GROUP balance by definition. </p><p>Everyone thinks they should be able to solo every other class.  I think that's where the problem is.  I'm ok dying to other classes so long as they aren't 1 shotting me and anyone else in my group.  That' what was wrong with mage.  GRAY cons in Kylong Plains killing people 12 levels higher than them was B R O K E N.</p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>Maliak@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>3 people beating on a solo healer should mean its death, I don't care who it is.</p></blockquote><p>Beating on?  Not so much.</p><p>Interupting, stun, stiffle, knocking back, and other wise disrupting the healer, yes.</p>

[ailen]

<p>You're sure quick to correct people here.  I will not get more verbose and explain everything any decent player should already know.  I've been on Nagafen since it launchd and I've got alts I've deleted with more than 10K kills.  Please spare me the "matter of fact" garbage you spew. I speak in generalities, I don't explain the correct sequence of keypresses for every class to beat every other class.  But we always have you here, to take the additional step for us.  Please continue explaining the quite obvious.. it does make you sound smarter.</p><p>If anyone plays this game long enough, and thinks about it, instead of coming to the forums to troll they'll see the problem I'm outlining.  Some healers are flat terrible, terribly geared, terribly played, terrible at everything they do.  However, there are many healers out there that with this new resist change will never worry about death not ever.  This is the scenario I'm talking about. </p>

[Crismorn]

<p>Healing does need to be nerfed.</p><p>But at the same time you have mutilation gear which if healing was reduced this gear could be over the top.</p><p>I suggest lower healing across the board to every preist and changing mutilation to some other affect or make it reduce healing/damage by 10% so it does not just punish one archtype</p>

[Taldier]

<p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Healing does need to be nerfed.</p><p>But at the same time you have mutilation gear which if healing was reduced this gear could be over the top.</p><p>I suggest lower healing across the board to every preist and changing mutilation to some other affect or make it reduce healing/damage by 10% so it does not just punish one archtype</p></blockquote><p>Mutilation reduces heals on the target so it hurts everyone.</p><p>If heals need nerfed...but mutiliation gear makes heals too [Removed for Content]...then heals dont need nerfed.</p><p>People just need to use mutilation gear.</p><p>Not stating that thats how it is.  But something cant be op and easily counterable at the same time.</p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>Maliak@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p> Some healers are flat terrible, terribly geared, terribly played, terrible at everything they do.  However, there are many healers out there that with this new resist change will never worry about death not ever.  This is the scenario I'm talking about. </p></blockquote><p>I've yet to see one of these healers.  Some are harder due to their spec'd immunity to specific control types for sure, but invulnerable?  Hardly invulnerable by any means.</p><p>I do however find the terrible ones with some frequency.</p><p>My class specificaly has the most trouble with wardens and templars.  I bought 2 mutilation items last night and atleast one of my groupmates got one as well. I have much better success on spiking these healers down now between control effects.</p><p>And, I spell things out cause you've got alot of people in this forum very new to these mechanics.  I'm glad your uber and all, I look forward to seeing you on an opposing color sometime soon.</p>

[Nefariouss]

<p>Dear SOE,</p><p>I have t1 shard armor in 3 slots and treasured in the rest. I can not kill anyone. How come healers can heal themselves? Omg they are so overpowered. Mages hit me for way to much damage. Scouts kill me to fast with their autoattack and all those combat arts they get off so fast. I can't kill tanks either because they absorb to much damage. Can you please nerf everybody to fighting with toothpicks and wearing a paper bag. Thanks.</p>

[Ralpmet]

<p>Lol, if you have 3 people beating on a healer and they aren't dying then ALL OF YOU need to upgrade your gear. ALL OF YOU need to coordinate your stuns,stifles,ect to lock down the healer. </p><p>Seriously, even on my inquis when I am still and immune to stifles, stuns and interupts I still die. Sure, it's not instantly. You have to burn through my endline reactive that lasts 20 seconds and heals 1.2-1.4k in pvp per hit. Sure, you have to burn through my divine aura (which is dispellable) and lasts 20 seconds. Sure, you have to burn down the emergancy reactives that will probably bring me from 1% to 100%. But eventually healers run out of emergency heals and die. That's how it goes.</p><p>You can maybe take a group once every 15 minutes for ~a minute and a half or so, but you can't stand there indefinitely and never run out of power and keep yourself up.  At least that's been MY experience, on my inquis in the 80-89 bgs.</p>

[Stuckx]

<p><cite>Ralpmet wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Lol, if you have 3 people beating on a healer and they aren't dying then ALL OF YOU need to upgrade your gear. ALL OF YOU need to coordinate your stuns,stifles,ect to lock down the healer. </p><p>Seriously, even on my inquis when I am still and immune to stifles, stuns and interupts I still die. Sure, it's not instantly. You have to burn through my endline reactive that lasts 20 seconds and heals 1.2-1.4k in pvp per hit. Sure, you have to burn through my divine aura (which is dispellable) and lasts 20 seconds. Sure, you have to burn down the emergancy reactives that will probably bring me from 1% to 100%. But eventually healers run out of emergency heals and die. That's how it goes.</p><p>You can maybe take a group once every 15 minutes for ~a minute and a half or so, but you can't stand there indefinitely and never run out of power and keep yourself up.  At least that's been MY experience, on my inquis in the 80-89 bgs.</p></blockquote><p>I personally know healers that could easily stand up to 3 people of any class beating on them nearly indeffinitely.</p>

[bks6721]

<p>Just finished another Gears match.  Freehand Ice Comet hit a Shadowknight for 900 after debuff.  Not bad for 15 pieces of bg gear, M1 IC, 126 spell crit, 47% crit mod, 970 spell mod, 1500 int.</p><p>I got 1 kill and was repeatedly killed by a troub in 10 seconds or less.  Nothing to see here, working as intended.</p><p>imho Ice Comet should NEVER hit for less than 5k if I've debuffed someone.</p>

[Stuckx]

<p><cite>Jjay@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Just finished another Gears match.  Freehand Ice Comet hit a Shadowknight for 900 after debuff.  Not bad for 15 pieces of bg gear, M1 IC, 126 spell crit, 47% crit mod, 970 spell mod, 1500 int.</p><p>I got 1 kill and was repeatedly killed by a troub in 10 seconds or less.  Nothing to see here, working as intended.</p><p>imho Ice Comet should NEVER hit for less than 5k if I've debuffed someone.</p></blockquote><p>Nah bro. It's balanced L2kite so that scout/tank doesn't hit you with his auto attacks that do more damagre than yourspells.</p>

[Ralpmet]

<p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ralpmet wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Lol, if you have 3 people beating on a healer and they aren't dying then ALL OF YOU need to upgrade your gear. ALL OF YOU need to coordinate your stuns,stifles,ect to lock down the healer. </p><p>Seriously, even on my inquis when I am still and immune to stifles, stuns and interupts I still die. Sure, it's not instantly. You have to burn through my endline reactive that lasts 20 seconds and heals 1.2-1.4k in pvp per hit. Sure, you have to burn through my divine aura (which is dispellable) and lasts 20 seconds. Sure, you have to burn down the emergancy reactives that will probably bring me from 1% to 100%. But eventually healers run out of emergency heals and die. That's how it goes.</p><p>You can maybe take a group once every 15 minutes for ~a minute and a half or so, but you can't stand there indefinitely and never run out of power and keep yourself up.  At least that's been MY experience, on my inquis in the 80-89 bgs.</p></blockquote><p>I personally know healers that could easily stand up to 3 people of any class beating on them nearly indeffinitely.</p></blockquote><p>I top heal parse 90% of the matches I play and I still can't take 3 well coordinated attackers attacking me at once.</p>

[Taldier]

<p><cite>Jjay@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Just finished another Gears match.  Freehand Ice Comet hit a Shadowknight for 900 after debuff.  Not bad for 15 pieces of bg gear, M1 IC, 126 spell crit, 47% crit mod, 970 spell mod, 1500 int.</p><p>I got 1 kill and was repeatedly killed by a troub in 10 seconds or less.  Nothing to see here, working as intended.</p><p>imho Ice Comet should NEVER hit for less than 5k if I've debuffed someone.</p></blockquote><p>Is it perhaps possible that the sk was warded by a... umm... healer?</p><p>Ice comet isnt hitting for only 900 damage.</p><p>And I think its funny that you complain about a troub killing you when they rely on spell damage as well tbh.</p>

[Meirril]

<p>Played my brig in BGs for the first time last night. As long as I wasn't getting taunted off of the healer I didn't have any trouble solo killing them. Snare, a few hits, then stun-lock once they start casting and its all over.</p><p>On the other hand, if a tank paid any attention I got pulled off the healer before they went into the red and by the time I can re-target them the healer is full up. Seems ballanced to me. Lone healer = dead. Tank + healer means I need friends to kill either. Brig vs DPS comes down to who gets their control off first if its one on one.</p><p>The best ballance in BGs seem to be when everybody thinks in terms of a group. When only one side accomplishes this...well guess they deserve to win. I know that when I was going cowboy (lone gunmen mentality) if I ran into a few people cooperating I died fast. If they wern't cooperating I'd gank one and maybe escape. When I followed my team around and helped tanks went down quick and then it was open season on everybody else.</p><p>/shrug Yeah, I know basic stuff. No complaints about anyone...guess that means brigs are OP and need the nerf bat?</p>

[bks6721]

<p><cite>Taldier@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Jjay@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Just finished another Gears match.  Freehand Ice Comet hit a Shadowknight for 900 after debuff.  Not bad for 15 pieces of bg gear, M1 IC, 126 spell crit, 47% crit mod, 970 spell mod, 1500 int.</p><p>I got 1 kill and was repeatedly killed by a troub in 10 seconds or less.  Nothing to see here, working as intended.</p><p>imho Ice Comet should NEVER hit for less than 5k if I've debuffed someone.</p></blockquote><p>Is it perhaps possible that the sk was warded by a... umm... healer?</p><p>Ice comet isnt hitting for only 900 damage.</p><p>And I think its funny that you complain about a troub killing you when they rely on spell damage as well tbh.</p></blockquote><p>Yes Ice Comet DID hit for 900.  The highest i've hit since the fix is 6100.  900 was the lowest, except for the numerous resists.</p><p>Troubs can melee too you know, or didn't you?</p>

[DngrMou]

<p><cite>Dismall@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>What you aren't understanding is a healer is suppsed <strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">to keep 6 players alive </span></strong>so yes 1 or 2 people beating on a solo healer will have a hard time killing them, but at the same time that healer won't kill you either.</p></blockquote><p>....Or heal the rest of her group.  Heals are also interuptable.</p>

[Taldier]

<p><cite>Jjay@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Taldier@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Jjay@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Just finished another Gears match.  Freehand Ice Comet hit a Shadowknight for 900 after debuff.  Not bad for 15 pieces of bg gear, M1 IC, 126 spell crit, 47% crit mod, 970 spell mod, 1500 int.</p><p>I got 1 kill and was repeatedly killed by a troub in 10 seconds or less.  Nothing to see here, working as intended.</p><p>imho Ice Comet should NEVER hit for less than 5k if I've debuffed someone.</p></blockquote><p>Is it perhaps possible that the sk was warded by a... umm... healer?</p><p>Ice comet isnt hitting for only 900 damage.</p><p>And I think its funny that you complain about a troub killing you when they rely on spell damage as well tbh.</p></blockquote><p>Yes Ice Comet DID hit for 900.  The highest i've hit since the fix is 6100.  900 was the lowest, except for the numerous resists.</p><p>Troubs can melee too you know, or didn't you? </p></blockquote><p>Im am sure that 900 is indeed the number that appeared in your combat log.</p><p>Wizards could hit for so much damage before that I honestly wouldnt be surprised if you didnt know that wards exist.</p><p>900-6100 range of damage...and you just take what the log says at face value and post that as the initial damage of the spell?  You dont think that one is the actual damage and one is the remaining damage after burning through wards?</p>