Do you know what Grinds My Gears of Klak?? Scout Parse inc!!

[Neskonlith]

<p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Level 88 dirge going into 5 self-queued matchmaker PUG 80's Gears BeeGees, post-resists fix - results and parses:</span></p><p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" /></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">BeeGees 1:</span></p><p><img src="http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb310/Bitter_Coffee/screenies/parses/Gearsdps1.jpg" /></p><p><img src="http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb310/Bitter_Coffee/screenies/parses/Gearsparse1.jpg" /></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">BeeGees 2:</span></p><p><img src="http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb310/Bitter_Coffee/screenies/parses/Gearsdps2.jpg" /></p><p><img src="http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb310/Bitter_Coffee/screenies/parses/Gearsparse2.jpg" /></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">BeeGees 3:</span></p><p><img src="http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb310/Bitter_Coffee/screenies/parses/Gearsdps3.jpg" /></p><p><img src="http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb310/Bitter_Coffee/screenies/parses/Gearsparse3.jpg" /></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">BeeGees 4:</span></p><p><img src="http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb310/Bitter_Coffee/screenies/parses/Gearsdps4.jpg" /></p><p><img src="http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb310/Bitter_Coffee/screenies/parses/Gearsparse4.jpg" /></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">BeeGees 5:</span></p><p><img src="http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb310/Bitter_Coffee/screenies/parses/Gearsdps5.jpg" /></p><p><img src="http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb310/Bitter_Coffee/screenies/parses/Gearsparse5.jpg" /></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Scout auto-attack melee highest hit was 1894, and the lowest hit was 7.  lol</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Looking like the only hits big in the 80's were <em>Def Leppard</em> and the <span style="text-decoration: line-through;">Alan Parsons</span> <em>Gnomish Parsing Project</em>...</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Post your 90's BeeGees parses, please!</span></p><p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Neskonlith]

<p><span style="color: #ff0000;">These parses were gathered fighting mages, healers, tanks and scouts - no one was spared.  </span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Anyone have some parses they can post to show how the new resists are working for them?</span></p>

[Neskonlith]

<p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Ganak battle where the Crusaders tore us up:</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Ganak 1:</span></p><p><img src="http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb310/Bitter_Coffee/screenies/parses/Ganakdps1.jpg" /></p><p><img src="http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb310/Bitter_Coffee/screenies/parses/Ganakparse1.jpg" /></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Beware the uber scout dps!!</span></p><p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Neskonlith]

<p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Ganak 2:</span></p><p><img src="http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb310/Bitter_Coffee/screenies/parses/Ganakdps2.jpg" /></p><p><img src="http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb310/Bitter_Coffee/screenies/parses/Ganakparse2.jpg" /></p>

[Ambrin]

<p>None of those fights really seemed to show anyone doing a lot of damage (200k isn't a lot of damage, even after the changes to spell damage).</p><p>Anyway, I think battlegrounds are a lot better now than they were pre-patch. Just remember to fight to win (it's the only way) and much fun will be had!</p>

[Neskonlith]

<p><cite>Ambrin@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>None of those fights really seemed to show anyone doing a lot of damage</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">These are 80's BeeGees random pick-up groups, and I have noticed that since the one-shots are gone that the fights actually seem to last long enough that teams have a decent opportunity to recover and win if everyone can find a way to work together well enough.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">As for the low numbers for my scout, I'm not going to panic until I am capped on stats and AAs, so all I am doing at this point is sharing my parsed experience with the new resists, providing some actual Live numbers to examine.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Ganak 2 was a darn close contest, and a great fun fight to the very end!</span></p><p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Serotonin]

<p>I think these changes has a bigger impact in the 90 BGs, the 80-89 scaled ones seems more okay in terms of damage balance between meleers and mages. I assume the reason is that people in general has a bit worse gear in the lower BGs, so mages can still do decent. It's when you are up vs a 90 toon decked out in pvp gear you do next to no damage due to them having high if not capped tougness and capped resists, even if you yourself have the same gear quality as them.</p>

[JimmyC01]

<p><cite>Serotonin@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I think these changes has a bigger impact in the 90 BGs, the 80-89 scaled ones seems more okay in terms of damage balance between meleers and mages. I assume the reason is that people in general has a bit worse gear in the lower BGs, so mages can still do decent. It's when you are up vs a 90 toon decked out in pvp gear you do next to no damage due to them having high if not capped tougness and capped resists, even if you yourself have the same gear quality as them.</p></blockquote><p>Those parses don't mean anything. Going up against people who are completely decked out with pvp or bg gear is completely different. It's time for all you people who locked to stay in the 80's bg's to come and join the big boys. Then you will see how completely screwed up it is.</p><p>One of my guildmates who is also a warlock like myself said in a gears match to me "WATCH OUT THAT WIZARD IS CASTING A FUSION" my response to him was "who cares it won't do anything anyways" ....long story short it hit me for 1100 points.</p><p>After comparing logs for the night before it appears as if they dumbed down the mages damage by about 60%. This is way to much imo. I just hope that it doesn't take another 2 months for these idiots to adjust it to a number that makes more sense.</p>

[Yimway]

<p>These parses basically demonstrate what we know already to be true in the pve game.</p><p>~50% of scout dps is from autoattack swings.  More or less depending on the specific class types.</p><p>It might help if you tried to establish your point beyond pasting parse data at face value.</p><p>Are you suggesting autoattack should not be 30-50% of scout dps output?  If so why should that be different in pvp than pve?</p><p>Or are you just documenting that its changed to more accurately reflect the rest of the game?</p>

[Neskonlith]

<p><cite>JimmyC01 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Those parses don't mean anything. Going up against people who are completely decked out with pvp or bg gear is completely different.</p><p>It's time for all you people who locked to stay in the 80's bg's to come and join the big boys. Then you will see how completely screwed up it is. </p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">My dirge is not locked, and is slowly levelling towards 90 with each BeeGee - it's a fun way to hit cap without grinding mobs, but thanks for assuming!</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Also: <em>cool story, bro!</em></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Where are the parses?  Hearing a lot of stories and anecdotes about "feelings" like this is Oprah, but where are the numbers from the 90s??</span></p>

[Neskonlith]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Or <span style="color: #ff00ff;">are you just documenting that its changed to more accurately reflect the rest of the game</span>? </p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Providing actual numbers from BeeGees Live so that some more accurate observations can be made instead of the same old, same old: "<em>scout auto-attack is insane and out of control</em>" generalizations.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">By posting my character's outgoing dmg, I can show how the character is performing in Live situations versus various opponents, especially with auto-attack.  Posting multiple parses gives a better sampling.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">I'm reading players posting the game is "<em>screwed up</em>" and "<em>broken</em>", yet I'm not seeing any parses that provide evidence being posted.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Post 90s parses, please!</span></p>

[Yimway]

<p>Oh I agree, I'm not seeing anything that shows things are broken.</p><p>In fact, in coordinated groups at 90 last night mages still top parses.  Mages solo hunting for kills eat dirt.</p>

[JimmyC01]

<p><cite>Neskonlith wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>JimmyC01 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Those parses don't mean anything. Going up against people who are completely decked out with pvp or bg gear is completely different.</p><p>It's time for all you people who locked to stay in the 80's bg's to come and join the big boys. Then you will see how completely screwed up it is. </p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">My dirge is not locked, and is slowly levelling towards 90 with each BeeGee - it's a fun way to hit cap without grinding mobs, but thanks for assuming!</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Also: <em>cool story, bro!</em></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Where are the parses?  Hearing a lot of stories and anecdotes about "feelings" like this is Oprah, but where are the numbers from the 90s??</span></p></blockquote><p>Grats...you are officially the slowest leveler in the the game.</p><p>Stop posting your stupid parses. Nobody cares whats happening in 80's BG's. They don't represent what is happening at end game after people are actually geared. Mages needed to be dumbed down...I mean way down, but not to where they put them now.</p><p>This whole thing wouldn't even be a issue if it didn't take so long for SOE to make changes even when they take it a bit to far. Instead we will all wait another 2 months before something is done to counter the effect of breaking resists completely the other direction.</p>

[Neskonlith]

<p><cite>JimmyC01 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Grats...you are officially the slowest leveler in the the game.</p><p> Stop posting your stupid parses. Nobody cares whats happening in 80's BG's. They don't represent what is happening at end game after people are actually geared. Mages needed to be dumbed down...I mean way down, but not to where they put them now.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">I have parsed a wizard in <strong>90</strong>s and a dirge in <strong>80</strong>s.  </span><span style="color: #ff0000;">Same general results in each range, all within expected pvp damage.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">I see a lot of posts about feelings, but no numbers to back them up.</span></p><p><img src="http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb310/Bitter_Coffee/screenies/howsthatworkingforyou2.jpg" /></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Why not post your Outgoing Damage parses to show everyone your character performance, and give evidence that resists have gone too far?</span></p>

[Cyra]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Oh I agree, I'm not seeing anything that shows things are broken.</p><p>In fact, in coordinated groups at 90 last night mages still top parses.  Mages solo hunting for kills eat dirt.</p></blockquote><p>Stuff is broken.</p><p>Unless you come in with a stacked pre-made group, as a mage there is a good chance you will spend your entire evening sitting at your spawn point. I spent 3 weeks decking my 90 wizard  in a full set of gear, I lack about 4 pieces of jewelry and a belt. My toughness is 475, I have 243 AA, all my spells are Adept3 or better, every piece of gear is adorned with greater or superior, I'm specc'd for health and as much defense as possible without totally gimping my damage output. Last night I blasted away and assisted for kills on 1-2. I only deathblowed 1 time in several of the groups I was in. My dps was still cranking but I wasn't killling anything. Even from the walls I was shot down by rangers, troubs, and dirges. I was stifled, poisoned, and unable to cast offensively or defensively. Resists didn't seem to be working at all for me. Everything mitigates what I can cast, but I can't mitigate what they can dish.</p><p>It isn't rare to zone into BG and NOT HAVE A STANDARD GROUP to "coordinate" your kills with. You can zone in with a nice 6 man group to support you, and when you get into Ganak or Smugglers have your group totally dismantled leaving you with no protection. You can trail another group, but not get benefit of their group taunt or group heals. Nothing changed for the flag runners except that they run in unopposed, cast on them and they still run away at 100% while you go to 0 runspeed, leaving you vulnerable to whoever followed them in cause you cant get away, after they nail you with an arrow you can't do anything anyway so just die..</p><p>Casters have been castrated, the next step is to euthanize us. We've become points to be traded between sides as fighters and scouts slay us at will. It wasn't fair for mages to kill a crippled scout or fighter, one out of range of their healer, one shot a badly geared player with our highest double attacking ice comet, but it sure is fair to have a scout dance around you with auto-attack cutting off your robe and taking out your appendix in 2 seconds flat. I don't even want to start on the Assassin warping to my back when my root or stun didn't work. My killing that assassin at range just wasn't fun, well I got news, his resisting all my spells, warping up to my spawn point and killing me on every revive just isn't fun for me either.</p><p>Mages are pure dps in a dress. At range we are supposed to be deadly, now we are just dead. The way things are LFG for BG's as a caster will be stupid, why bring a completely [Removed for Content] toon with you when you can bring in a scout or fighter and roll over everyone else. Zoning into BG as a solo mage without a group is suicidal.</p><p>I do hope it doesn't take months to get a fix. If this is the way it is meant to stay, I want a refund of the resources I spent to totally adorn my BG armor. It was a waste of time. I'll outfit my scout instead, she will be immortal.</p>

[Taldier]

<p><cite>Cyra@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="text-decoration: line-through;">Stuff is broken.</span></p><p>Unless you come in with a stacked pre-made group, <span style="text-decoration: line-through;">as a mage</span> there is a good chance you will spend your entire evening sitting at your spawn point.</p></blockquote><p>Fixed</p><p>This was always true, now its true for mages too.</p>

[JimmyC01]

<p><cite>Neskonlith wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>JimmyC01 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Grats...you are officially the slowest leveler in the the game.</p><p> Stop posting your stupid parses. Nobody cares whats happening in 80's BG's. They don't represent what is happening at end game after people are actually geared. Mages needed to be dumbed down...I mean way down, but not to where they put them now.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">I have parsed a wizard in <strong>90</strong>s and a dirge in <strong>80</strong>s.  </span><span style="color: #ff0000;">Same general results in each range, all within expected pvp damage.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">I see a lot of posts about feelings, but no numbers to back them up.</span></p><p><img src="http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb310/Bitter_Coffee/screenies/howsthatworkingforyou2.jpg" /></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Why not post your Outgoing Damage parses to show everyone your character performance, and give evidence that resists have gone too far?</span></p></blockquote><p>See the difference here is I've played this character since the beginning and have logged almost 200 days playtime on him. I don't need to show you parses to show you the difference when I can see it for myself. A lot of people have already said it...even if we parse well...we still can't kill anybody except each other.</p><p>Some scouts...not all were killing me 2 days ago in 2 seconds flat. Even when I see one coming which is supposed to be the mages advantage, they are hitting me well before my spell is done casting. The rsult is usually the same....DEATH. What do you think the result is after the change?</p><p>Scouts will kill at will...(just like the good old days)</p><p>Healers will live forever...</p><p>Tanks will never die...</p><p>Mages....remains to be seen I guess.</p><p>This expansion has been a disaster for the PVP server and might have been the final straw to finish this game off for good.</p>

[bks6721]

<p><cite>Cyra@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Oh I agree, I'm not seeing anything that shows things are broken.</p><p>In fact, in coordinated groups at 90 last night mages still top parses.  Mages solo hunting for kills eat dirt.</p></blockquote><p>Stuff is broken.</p><p>Unless you come in with a stacked pre-made group, as a mage there is a good chance you will spend your entire evening sitting at your spawn point. I spent 3 weeks decking my 90 wizard  in a full set of gear, I lack about 4 pieces of jewelry and a belt. My toughness is 475, I have 243 AA, all my spells are Adept3 or better, every piece of gear is adorned with greater or superior, I'm specc'd for health and as much defense as possible without totally gimping my damage output. Last night I blasted away and assisted for kills on 1-2. I only deathblowed 1 time in several of the groups I was in. My dps was still cranking but I wasn't killling anything. Even from the walls I was shot down by rangers, troubs, and dirges. I was stifled, poisoned, and unable to cast offensively or defensively. Resists didn't seem to be working at all for me. Everything mitigates what I can cast, but I can't mitigate what they can dish.</p><p>It isn't rare to zone into BG and NOT HAVE A STANDARD GROUP to "coordinate" your kills with. You can zone in with a nice 6 man group to support you, and when you get into Ganak or Smugglers have your group totally dismantled leaving you with no protection. You can trail another group, but not get benefit of their group taunt or group heals. Nothing changed for the flag runners except that they run in unopposed, cast on them and they still run away at 100% while you go to 0 runspeed, leaving you vulnerable to whoever followed them in cause you cant get away, after they nail you with an arrow you can't do anything anyway so just die..</p><p>Casters have been castrated, the next step is to euthanize us. We've become points to be traded between sides as fighters and scouts slay us at will. It wasn't fair for mages to kill a crippled scout or fighter, one out of range of their healer, one shot a badly geared player with our highest double attacking ice comet, but it sure is fair to have a scout dance around you with auto-attack cutting off your robe and taking out your appendix in 2 seconds flat. I don't even want to start on the Assassin warping to my back when my root or stun didn't work. My killing that assassin at range just wasn't fun, well I got news, his resisting all my spells, warping up to my spawn point and killing me on every revive just isn't fun for me either.</p><p>Mages are pure dps in a dress. At range we are supposed to be deadly, now we are just dead. The way things are LFG for BG's as a caster will be stupid, why bring a completely [Removed for Content] toon with you when you can bring in a scout or fighter and roll over everyone else. Zoning into BG as a solo mage without a group is suicidal.</p><p>I do hope it doesn't take months to get a fix. If this is the way it is meant to stay, I want a refund of the resources I spent to totally adorn my BG armor. It was a waste of time. I'll outfit my scout instead, she will be immortal.</p></blockquote><p>That pretty much sums up my experience since the fix.</p><p>I am merely an annoyance to anyone I attack now.  They either run away as if I'm no threat to them or they engage melee and kill me.</p>

[Taldier]

<p><cite>JimmyC01 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Some scouts...not all were killing me 2 days ago in 2 seconds flat. Even when I see one coming which is supposed to be the mages advantage, they are hitting me well before my spell is done casting. The rsult is usually the same....DEATH. What do you think the result is after the change?</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Some scouts, like some players of any class will drastically outgear/outplay you.  If you are speced correctly you can mitigate large amounts of melee damage.  Seeing as conjies can stand up to rogues for more than 2 seconds a decent sorc will live far longer.</span></p><p>Scouts will kill at will...(just like the good old days)</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Except they dont, they get owned by many classes.</span></p><p>Healers will live forever...</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Except they dont.</span></p><p>Tanks will never die...</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Except they do.</span></p><p>Mages....remains to be seen I guess.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">All data still points to mages being top burst dps in bg's/pvp if they actually coordinate with a group instead of trying to solo groups.</span></p></blockquote>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>Cyra@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Oh I agree, I'm not seeing anything that shows things are broken.</p><p>In fact, in coordinated groups at 90 last night mages still top parses.  Mages solo hunting for kills eat dirt.</p></blockquote><p>It isn't rare to zone into BG and NOT HAVE A STANDARD GROUP to "coordinate" your kills with. You can zone in with a nice 6 man group to support you, and when you get into Ganak or Smugglers have your group totally dismantled leaving you with no protection. You can trail another group, but not get benefit of their group taunt or group heals. Nothing changed for the flag runners except that they run in unopposed, cast on them and they still run away at 100% while you go to 0 runspeed, leaving you vulnerable to whoever followed them in cause you cant get away, after they nail you with an arrow you can't do anything anyway so just die..</p></blockquote><p>Yes, welcome to the issues that the majority of the classes have been dealing with since this started.  If I don't have a group or even half a group working together prior to these fixes, I'm eating dirt the entire match unless I can somehow single someone out solo.</p><p>With the changes, mages are brought into the same woes as the rest of us.  Hopefully, eventually, pugs will learn to stay with their group and raid leaders will learn how to organize groups.  And yes, everyone's experience in BG is degrated until people learn this.</p><p>I'm sure it was great fun before not to worry about needing your group to work together, I'm sure it was great fun to be a team of 1, but I'm not surprised they felt this was something that needed correcting.</p>

[mykei]

<p>i ran out of mana last night for the first time ever in BG! 87 conjuror. i still can one-shot pve at least! BG is GB (getting better).</p>

[Neskonlith]

<p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Scout insanity continues to spiral out of control in the BeeGees!</span></p><p><img src="http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb310/Bitter_Coffee/screenies/parses/Gearsdps7.jpg" /></p><p><img src="http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb310/Bitter_Coffee/screenies/parses/Gearsparse7.jpg" /></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">1 versus 3 healers + some heavily nerfed dps mages - I mean, look, those mage parses are so *scoff* tiny!</span></p><p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" /></p><p><img src="http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb310/Bitter_Coffee/screenies/parses/queuinguptochewbubblegumandBeeGees.jpg" /></p>

[Tehom]

<p>You realize that warded damage doesn't show up on damage inflicted, right? Your team did a lot more damage than they did. You had an inquisitor, they had two shamans. You absolutely crushed that team, and you can see it reflected in the number of kills. They did AE damage that was easily healed, you guys did focused damage that was partially warded then killed them a lot.</p><p>But in any case, the real problem mages have is against competent players who actually have resists and toughness. They're essentially a joke - I'm yet to take significant damage from any sorcerer in a level 90 battleground since the change, and more just find fusion or ice comet to be amusing when they fail to inflict any damage whatsoever. Scouts, brawlers, or warriors, on the other hand, can tear me apart.</p>

[Neskonlith]

<p><cite>Chath@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff00ff;">You had an inquisitor, they had two shamans</span>.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">We had an inquisitor versus their inquisitor + defiler and mystic.  Their wizard, SK and necro put up heavy dps, but we somehow managed to make it through.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Goes to show that you can't give up on a BeeGee when you count the number of healers on the opposite side at the beginning of the contest - anything can happen.</span></p>

[Taldier]

<p><cite>Chath@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You realize that warded damage doesn't show up on damage inflicted, right? Your team did a lot more damage than they did. You had an inquisitor, they had two shamans. You absolutely crushed that team, and you can see it reflected in the number of kills. They did AE damage that was easily healed, you guys did focused damage that was partially warded then killed them a lot.</p></blockquote><p>The winning team got two more kills than the losing team.  Not sure that "absolutely crushed" is the correct description of that bg parse.</p><p>Obviously the blue team won with two crusaders bouncing agro and a beast of a healer.</p><p>The winning team had a balanced group and the losing team got stuck with three healers  who basically got outhealed by one healer.</p>

[Tehom]

<p>It was 11 to 7 in killshots, since 3/1 of the deaths were from relics. I consider a 50% or higher margin in kills and double point score to be pretty decisive, yeah. The inquisitor didn't outheal the other 3 healers, though it was pretty close. He about equaled the shamans by himself.</p><p>The point was more that the 1.3 million that the shamans healed wasn't recorded as outgoing damage for the blue team, so they did a heck of a lot more than he thought, even ignoring that the mage damage was largely wasted, as AE damage often is. I've seen a lot of gears matches with strong shamans in which the losing side is listed as doing zero damage in the match, so that kinda of swings using it as a basis for comparison.</p>

[Exuro]

<p><cite>Taldier@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>JimmyC01 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Some scouts...not all were killing me 2 days ago in 2 seconds flat. Even when I see one coming which is supposed to be the mages advantage, they are hitting me well before my spell is done casting. The rsult is usually the same....DEATH. What do you think the result is after the change?</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Some scouts, like some players of any class will drastically outgear/outplay you.  If you are speced correctly you can mitigate large amounts of melee damage.  Seeing as conjies can stand up to rogues for more than 2 seconds a decent sorc will live far longer.</span></p><p>Scouts will kill at will...(just like the good old days)</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Except they dont, they get owned by many classes.</span></p><p>Healers will live forever...</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Except they dont.</span></p><p>Tanks will never die...</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Except they do.</span></p><p>Mages....remains to be seen I guess.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">All data still points to mages being top burst dps in bg's/pvp if they actually coordinate with a group instead of trying to solo groups.</span></p></blockquote></blockquote><p>Healers die.  Eventually.  Tanks die.  Eventually. But you can't pretend that the dynamic in bgs hasn't changed.  And what is this data that points out top 'burst dps' ?  My 5k ice comet is the most burst damage any class can put out?  I don't think so.  Or are you suggesting that mages are 'top burst coordinated dps'?  Like, get with 5 other wizards in vent and count-down an ice comet?  Someone would, I am sure, complain that they were 'instakilled' by ice comet if that happened, even if it took 5 of them.</p><p>The general balance problem for battlegrounds is the huge number of gear/class vs gear/class matchups combined with a player population that is, for the most part, learning pvp for the first time.</p><p>Should an avatar geared wizard be able to one-shot (i.e. kill with one double-cast, freehand-boosted ice comet) an avatar-geared tank? (This is the same as asking, should it be possible for a boosted ice comet to take out half the target's life?)</p><p>How about a 500 toughness, T4 tank? </p><p>How about a 300 toughness, T3 tank?</p><p>How about a T2 tank with no PvP gear and 15k hps?</p><p>How about a T2 wizard?</p><p>How about a T3 assassin?</p><p>(loose step generalizations of categories)</p><p>PvP is an entirely different animal for balance purposes.  It requires clear goals on what classes should be able to do vs each other.  EQ2 is designed almost entirely, if not entirely, on what classes can do WITH each other against static opponents (PvE).  Take years of PvE development and throw it in a PvP environment.  Hilarity ensues.</p>

[Raznor2]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>These parses basically demonstrate what we know already to be true in the pve game.</p><p>~50% of scout dps is from autoattack swings.  More or less depending on the specific class types.</p><p>It might help if you tried to establish your point beyond pasting parse data at face value.</p><p>Are you suggesting autoattack should not be 30-50% of scout dps output?  If so why should that be different in pvp than pve?</p><p>Or are you just documenting that its changed to more accurately reflect the rest of the game?</p></blockquote><p>This may be true for a dirge but as a swashbuckler my auto attack is not half to 30 percent of my dps in battle grounds.  I've parsed as low as 7 percent from both weapons and highest was probably around 20 percent. (note: In battle grounds, in normal instances my auto attack is about 1/3rd of my damage.)  As much as some people are jumping up and down about 2k auto attacks, that is a high hit and seldom happens even against silk wearing classes.  My average hit usually falls between 300 to 600 depending on the number of tanks in the match.  Th ext. dps from auto attack is usually around 120.  The bulk of my damage comes from ca's and procs.</p>

[Neskonlith]

<p><cite>Raznor@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This may be true for a dirge but as a swashbuckler my auto attack is not half to 30 percent of my dps in battle grounds. </p><p>I've parsed as low as 7 percent from both weapons and highest was probably around 20 percent. (note: In battle grounds, in normal instances my auto attack is about 1/3rd of my damage.)  As much as some people are jumping up and down about 2k auto attacks, that is a high hit and seldom happens even against silk wearing classes.  </p><p>My average hit usually falls between 300 to 600 depending on the number of tanks in the match.  Th ext. dps from auto attack is usually around 120.  The bulk of my damage comes from ca's and procs.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Yes, but since you are a melee scout, you will automatically be lumped in as parsing like a top predator.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">However, do not lump in mages with the top sorcerers!</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">If only more people would post parses to demonstrate character performance in BeeGees!</span></p>