Resist fixes

[Xenith]

<p>So we're not gonna die in 1-2 seconds now?  O wait scouts still kill casters in 1-2 seconds. </p><p>Ever stop to think that the broken formula was the basis of all of your balances over the last few years ?  Adjusting melee dps to be in line with caster dps etc etc?  Where's the toning down of melee dps to compensate? </p><p>You want casters to stand there for 3-4 seconds to get a spell off while scouts and fighters run up to you and kill you within 2?  Casters can't parry worth a dang so pretty much anything melee's use will land while over 70% of spells are going to resist? </p><p>Any thought put into this at all or just a jerk reaction to the crying on the forums</p>

[Kota]

we are about 2 months past the 'knee jerk' reaction timeframe tbh.

[Neskonlith]

<p><cite>Xenith wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Any thought put into this at all or just a jerk reaction to the crying on the forums</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">SOE Devs</span> <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=474221" target="_blank">told us 4 weeks ago that they had found the issue with casters one-shotting</a>, <span style="color: #ff0000;">and that they would code a fix and give us time to Test + /feedback.</span></p><p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=475254" target="_blank">Two weeks ago SOE pushed the fix to Test-copy server </a><span style="color: #ff0000;">for everyone to parse out and provide /feedback upon.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Over</span> <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=120&topic_id=474221" target="_blank">one week ago Timetravelling was online for a number of hours</a> <span style="color: #ff0000;">collecting as much /feedback as he possibly could, in addition to all the forum feedback.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">This is not a surprise fix with knee-jerk reactions...</span></p><p><cite>timetravelling wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff00ff;"> </span><span><span style="color: #ff00ff;">Hey folks! </span></span></p><p style="font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;"><span><span style="color: #ff00ff;">The changes have been pushed to Test-copy! Prz log on, beat each other up, and give us your feedback! If you have specific parses or such you'd like to send, plz PM me or Reahov directly for contact information</span></span></p><p style="font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;"> </p><p style="font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;"><span><span style="color: #ff00ff;">From the Original Post:</span></span></p><p style="font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;"><span><span style="color: #ff00ff;">Based on the old formulas, extremely high resists (if capped) would give players a 75% chance to avoid a spell AND a 75% reduction in the damage when it landed. To offset these, scaling mults were put in to reduce the outright resist and damage reduction components gained from those stats. When we updated the formulas to be more balanced, those mults were still hidden in the code reducing the now-more-normal resist rates, causing them to be extremely low.</span></span></p><p style="font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;"><span><span style="color: #ff00ff;">At level 70+, spell avoidance chance was being multipled by 0.6 (reducing your overall chance to avoid by 40%) and spell resists were being multiplied by 0.65 (reducing the damage reduction applied to spell damage by 35%). This has been contributing to the ... ah ... very high combat effectiveness of spell-damage based classes. We have removed all of these mults internally.</span></span></p><p style="font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;"><span><span style="color: #ff00ff;">Our intention is *not* to make any classes unbeatable or make others unable to kill opponents. Deathdealers such as Wizards and Warlocks will still do impressive damage, and letting one attack you unabated will still be very bad for your health. However, spell resistances and high STA should be contributing to survival as expected instead of at a greatly reduced effectiveness.</span></span></p><p style="font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;"><span><span style="color: #ff00ff;">Feedback and such is welcome, and we look forward to y'alls help with parses and real-combat situational effectiveness changes once we have these changes on Test-Copy!</span></span><span style="color: #ff00ff;"> </span></p></blockquote>

[lollipop]

<p>The casters I group with on a normal basis can still take hits and dish out dmg. They just dont single handed take on groups now.</p>

[Neskonlith]

<p><cite>lollipop wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The casters I group with on a normal basis can still take hits and dish out dmg. They just dont single handed take on groups now.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Yup, here's some wizzie AA info to consider:</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">When you look at the mit and avoidance of the conjie vs wizzie on Test-copy, these were the results with no adornments, temps, consumables or myth buffs:</span></p><p><img src="http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb310/Bitter_Coffee/screenies/conjvswizzie.jpg" /></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">The wizard has a lot of AA options to enhance survival, the following AAs for a wizard improved the mit to 5254 and avoidance to 49.1%:</span></p><p><img src="http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb310/Bitter_Coffee/screenies/wizzieaa1.jpg" /></p><p><img src="http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb310/Bitter_Coffee/screenies/wizzieaa2.jpg" /></p><p><img src="http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb310/Bitter_Coffee/screenies/wizzieaa3.jpg" /></p>

[Shankapotomus]

<p>Ah... gotta love people who post on the forums without actually looking into the situation.</p><p>i think everyone else covered all the reasons it needs to be changed and solidified why casters will still be very formatable. Thanks for the research guys.</p><p>And no, spells will not be outright resisted as often anymore, parts of them will. That means spell casters will still be landing damage about 90% of the time, but in varying degrees.</p><p>Anything else you need pointed out for you?</p>

[bks6721]

<p><cite>Shankapotomus@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Ah... gotta love people who post on the forums without actually looking into the situation.</p><p>i think everyone else covered all the reasons it needs to be changed and solidified why casters will still be very formatable. Thanks for the research guys.</p><p>And no, spells will not be outright resisted as often anymore, parts of them will. That means spell casters will still be landing damage about 90% of the time, but in varying degrees.</p><p>Anything else you need pointed out for you?</p></blockquote><p>I've only done one Ganak match since the fix.  I got more resists in that one match than I have in the last week running dozens of matches.  It's fun watching the 5th spell in a row resist on someone running with your flag.</p>

[Darkonx]

<p>Casters got used to being OP, so once their OP-status is taken away, they cry. Personally I've seen my spells doing 20-25% of the damage that they used to. All that being said, the nerf bat did hit a bit too hard this time, at least in my opinion.</p>

[JimmyC01]

<p>All I can say is WOW...I just finished A Ganak BG on my warlock and my highest damage spell was 2650...its one thing to fix what was broken, but as usual they completely and utterly screwed it all to hell. Good thing I have 6 level 90's.</p>

[Cigam]

<p><cite>Shankapotomus@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Ah... gotta love people who post on the forums without actually looking into the situation.</p><p>i think everyone else covered all the reasons it needs to be changed and solidified why casters will still be very formatable. Thanks for the research guys.</p><p>And no, spells will not be outright resisted as often anymore, parts of them will. That means spell casters will still be landing damage about 90% of the time, but in varying degrees.</p><p>Anything else you need pointed out for you?</p></blockquote><p>Sure I have one... Since the "uber" damage mages were doing has been nerfed.. think it is time to tone down heals?</p>

[Cuendilar]

<p><cite>Shankapotomus@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Ah... gotta love people who post on the forums without actually looking into the situation.</p><p>i think everyone else covered all the reasons it needs to be changed and solidified why casters will still be very formatable. Thanks for the research guys.</p><p>And no, spells will not be outright resisted as often anymore, parts of them will. That means spell casters will still be landing damage about 90% of the time, but in varying degrees.</p><p>Anything else you need pointed out for you?</p></blockquote><p>heh, you haven't cast too many spells since the "fix" have you?  Greyed out most of my casting order and all but one spell was resisted.  I don't care what your resists are.  I wasn't one-shotting people as a Conjuror before the "fix," and I cannot scratch many people after it.  Who was it crying before?</p>

[Shorcon]

<p><cite>Xenith wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So we're not gonna die in 1-2 seconds now?  O wait scouts still kill casters in 1-2 seconds. </p><p>Ever stop to think that the broken formula was the basis of all of your balances over the last few years ?  Adjusting melee dps to be in line with caster dps etc etc?  Where's the toning down of melee dps to compensate? </p><p>You want casters to stand there for 3-4 seconds to get a spell off while scouts and fighters run up to you and kill you within 2?  Casters can't parry worth a dang so pretty much anything melee's use will land while over 70% of spells are going to resist? </p><p>Any thought put into this at all or just a jerk reaction to the crying on the forums</p></blockquote><p>L2P. The problem is you think you should just cast away and have no fear of melee. Understandably so. Fixed now. Unfortunate down side is you have to learn to play your toon. Crowd control for the win. No more soloing battlegrounds. Time for teamwork is upon us. Mruh hahahahahaha.</p>

[Shorcon]

<p><cite>Neskonlith wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Xenith wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Any thought put into this at all or just a jerk reaction to the crying on the forums</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">SOE Devs</span> <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=474221" target="_blank">told us 4 weeks ago that they had found the issue with casters one-shotting</a>, <span style="color: #ff0000;">and that they would code a fix and give us time to Test + /feedback.</span></p><p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=475254" target="_blank">Two weeks ago SOE pushed the fix to Test-copy server </a><span style="color: #ff0000;">for everyone to parse out and provide /feedback upon.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Over</span> <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=120&topic_id=474221" target="_blank">one week ago Timetravelling was online for a number of hours</a> <span style="color: #ff0000;">collecting as much /feedback as he possibly could, in addition to all the forum feedback.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">This is not a surprise fix with knee-jerk reactions...</span></p><p><cite>timetravelling wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff00ff;"> </span><span><span style="color: #ff00ff;">Hey folks! </span></span></p><p style="font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;"><span><span style="color: #ff00ff;">The changes have been pushed to Test-copy! Prz log on, beat each other up, and give us your feedback! If you have specific parses or such you'd like to send, plz PM me or Reahov directly for contact information</span></span></p><p style="font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;"> </p><p style="font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;"><span><span style="color: #ff00ff;">From the Original Post:</span></span></p><p style="font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;"><span><span style="color: #ff00ff;">Based on the old formulas, extremely high resists (if capped) would give players a 75% chance to avoid a spell AND a 75% reduction in the damage when it landed. To offset these, scaling mults were put in to reduce the outright resist and damage reduction components gained from those stats. When we updated the formulas to be more balanced, those mults were still hidden in the code reducing the now-more-normal resist rates, causing them to be extremely low.</span></span></p><p style="font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;"><span><span style="color: #ff00ff;">At level 70+, spell avoidance chance was being multipled by 0.6 (reducing your overall chance to avoid by 40%) and spell resists were being multiplied by 0.65 (reducing the damage reduction applied to spell damage by 35%). This has been contributing to the ... ah ... very high combat effectiveness of spell-damage based classes. We have removed all of these mults internally.</span></span></p><p style="font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;"><span><span style="color: #ff00ff;">Our intention is *not* to make any classes unbeatable or make others unable to kill opponents. Deathdealers such as Wizards and Warlocks will still do impressive damage, and letting one attack you unabated will still be very bad for your health. However, spell resistances and high STA should be contributing to survival as expected instead of at a greatly reduced effectiveness.</span></span></p><p style="font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;"><span><span style="color: #ff00ff;">Feedback and such is welcome, and we look forward to y'alls help with parses and real-combat situational effectiveness changes once we have these changes on Test-Copy!</span></span><span style="color: #ff00ff;"> </span></p></blockquote></blockquote><p>You rock. Seriously. You rock.</p>

[Shorcon]

<p><cite>Darkonx wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Casters got used to being OP, so once their OP-status is taken away, they cry. Personally I've seen my spells doing 20-25% of the damage that they used to. All that being said, the nerf bat did hit a bit too hard this time, at least in my opinion.</p></blockquote><p>My guess is you are spec'd survival. Spec total dps and work with your team to survive. My taunts matter now and believe me I will taunt for any caster that joins my fray.</p>

[ntommyb]

<p>spike damage was too important.  As a matter of fact people still lean too heavily on it.  There should be alot more to this game than melting people in short order.  I tend to win 8 of 10 battlegrounds solo queuing the ones I lose is because I'm being CCed all to hell and my tank doesn't know what he's doing.  Before this change there were a few times that spike damage would cause me some problems, usually multiple casters (I play a warden btw) but most times I heal right through it if nobodies interrupting me or attacking me.  Now, after the fix, you better figure out a way to do something about the other guys healers because you shouldn't be able to get in front of a good one's heals unless its a wicked soft target.  Power battles are AWESOME, it separates the men from the boys.  Thats the way this game should be played imo. </p><p>Right now solo queuing I've noticed most people have no idea how to pick the right targets, most tanks are running around trying to show up on the damage parse, most people have NO idea where the healer is and spend most of the game out of range.  All this complaining about mechanics and people aren't even playing the game as intended yet.  It will come around and I hope that when it does spike damage only happens when a caster waits for two rows of debuffs to be on</p>

[EvilAstroboy]

<p>The problem is that scouts and fighters can still do spike damage, but casters cant. Rangers can still two shot mages from 40 meters away... where is the balance in this?</p><p>Melee damage needs to be reduced to 25% damage in PvP to balance with what they have done to spell resists. Then noone will be able to burn through healing!</p>

[Dojac]

<p>Illusionists got the shaft on this one big time.  We never had the nukes to justify wearing cloth and we got hosed to the point of uselessness on this one.  I've parsed a few matches today and this is what i've found:</p><p>A full 14% of my attacks (swings) landed but failed to do any damage what-so-ever.  Most of the attacks were crits.</p><p>A full 19% of my attacks just didn't land period</p><p>I am not poorly geared, 15 pieces of BG gear.  43% potentcy and 47% crit bonus and basically 30% of what I'm throwin doesn't do a [Removed for Content] thing to my enemies.   The pendulum swung too far against the mages on this one and now illies are back to being buff bots.</p>

[Taldier]

<p><cite>Dojac@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Illusionists got the shaft on this one big time.  We never had the nukes to justify wearing cloth and we got hosed to the point of uselessness on this one.  I've parsed a few matches today and this is what i've found:</p><p>A full 14% of my attacks (swings) landed but failed to do any damage what-so-ever.  Most of the attacks were crits.</p><p>A full 19% of my attacks just didn't land period</p><p>I am not poorly geared, 15 pieces of BG gear.  43% potentcy and 47% crit bonus and basically 30% of what I'm throwin doesn't do a [Removed for Content] thing to my enemies.   The pendulum swung too far against the mages on this one and now illies are back to being buff bots.</p></blockquote><p>You do know that melee avoidance rates are generally higher than that...and ca's cant be recast until they land...?</p><p>And I dont even want to parse the % of melee attacks that get mitigated down to 0 damage vs a decently specced sorc.  I assure you its more than 14%.</p><p>Maybe everything isnt supposed to land for full damage 100% of the time?  Just maybe.</p>

[Stuckx]

<p><cite>Taldier@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Dojac@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Illusionists got the shaft on this one big time.  We never had the nukes to justify wearing cloth and we got hosed to the point of uselessness on this one.  I've parsed a few matches today and this is what i've found:</p><p>A full 14% of my attacks (swings) landed but failed to do any damage what-so-ever.  Most of the attacks were crits.</p><p>A full 19% of my attacks just didn't land period</p><p>I am not poorly geared, 15 pieces of BG gear.  43% potentcy and 47% crit bonus and basically 30% of what I'm throwin doesn't do a [Removed for Content] thing to my enemies.   The pendulum swung too far against the mages on this one and now illies are back to being buff bots.</p></blockquote><p>You do know that melee avoidance rates are generally higher than that...and ca's cant be recast until they land...?</p><p>And I dont even want to parse the % of melee attacks that get mitigated down to 0 damage vs a decently specced sorc.  I assure you its more than 14%.</p><p>Maybe everything isnt supposed to land for full damage 100% of the time?  Just maybe.</p></blockquote><p>Summoners are [Removed for Content]'d. I can't speak for the enchanters,but as a conjuror..killing anyone in BG's is completely impossible for me. With 50% crit bonus and 40% potency,my biggest hit in BG's was a whopping 1k.</p>

[Blaidd]

<p>One spell that is getting too many resists and needs sorting is dispel magic.</p><p>Currently this spell is the only way people have a chance of killing certain classes with stoneskin/huge ward like abilities and tonight every single dispel magic I threw out got resisted magic those classes practically unkillable.</p>

[Taldier]

<p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Taldier@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Dojac@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Illusionists got the shaft on this one big time.  We never had the nukes to justify wearing cloth and we got hosed to the point of uselessness on this one.  I've parsed a few matches today and this is what i've found:</p><p>A full 14% of my attacks (swings) landed but failed to do any damage what-so-ever.  Most of the attacks were crits.</p><p>A full 19% of my attacks just didn't land period</p><p>I am not poorly geared, 15 pieces of BG gear.  43% potentcy and 47% crit bonus and basically 30% of what I'm throwin doesn't do a [Removed for Content] thing to my enemies.   The pendulum swung too far against the mages on this one and now illies are back to being buff bots.</p></blockquote><p>You do know that melee avoidance rates are generally higher than that...and ca's cant be recast until they land...?</p><p>And I dont even want to parse the % of melee attacks that get mitigated down to 0 damage vs a decently specced sorc.  I assure you its more than 14%.</p><p>Maybe everything isnt supposed to land for full damage 100% of the time?  Just maybe.</p></blockquote><p>Summoners are [Removed for Content]'d. I can't speak for the enchanters,but as a conjuror..killing anyone in BG's is completely impossible for me. With 50% crit bonus and 40% potency,my biggest hit in BG's was a whopping 1k.</p></blockquote><p>I'm not saying they tweaked it perfectly.  I would need to collect alot of parse data to say one way or the other.  When we were on test-copy I thought they should bring it back up about 20%.</p><p>Im just saying that the above players numbers are worthless and if anything prove the opposite of his point.  "oh no I'm not landing every spell for max damage" is not a valid argument and just shows how used to being op casters have gotten these past couple months.</p>

[Stuckx]

<p><cite>Taldier@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Taldier@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Dojac@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Illusionists got the shaft on this one big time.  We never had the nukes to justify wearing cloth and we got hosed to the point of uselessness on this one.  I've parsed a few matches today and this is what i've found:</p><p>A full 14% of my attacks (swings) landed but failed to do any damage what-so-ever.  Most of the attacks were crits.</p><p>A full 19% of my attacks just didn't land period</p><p>I am not poorly geared, 15 pieces of BG gear.  43% potentcy and 47% crit bonus and basically 30% of what I'm throwin doesn't do a [Removed for Content] thing to my enemies.   The pendulum swung too far against the mages on this one and now illies are back to being buff bots.</p></blockquote><p>You do know that melee avoidance rates are generally higher than that...and ca's cant be recast until they land...?</p><p>And I dont even want to parse the % of melee attacks that get mitigated down to 0 damage vs a decently specced sorc.  I assure you its more than 14%.</p><p>Maybe everything isnt supposed to land for full damage 100% of the time?  Just maybe.</p></blockquote><p>Summoners are [Removed for Content]'d. I can't speak for the enchanters,but as a conjuror..killing anyone in BG's is completely impossible for me. With 50% crit bonus and 40% potency,my biggest hit in BG's was a whopping 1k.</p></blockquote><p>I'm not saying they tweaked it perfectly.  I would need to collect alot of parse data to say one way or the other.  When we were on test-copy I thought they should bring it back up about 20%.</p><p>Im just saying that the above players numbers are worthless and if anything prove the opposite of his point.  "oh no I'm not landing every spell for max damage" is not a valid argument and just shows how used to being op casters have gotten these past couple months.</p></blockquote><p>I'm not complaining about my spells not hitting for max damage..I'm complaining about my spells doing pretty much NO damage to a group. My damage literally gets outhealed by heal procs off of armor now.</p>

[ntommyb]

<p><cite>Dojac@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Illusionists got the shaft on this one big time.  We never had the nukes to justify wearing cloth and we got hosed to the point of uselessness on this one.  I've parsed a few matches today and this is what i've found:</p><p>A full 14% of my attacks (swings) landed but failed to do any damage what-so-ever.  Most of the attacks were crits.</p><p>A full 19% of my attacks just didn't land period</p><p>I am not poorly geared, 15 pieces of BG gear.  43% potentcy and 47% crit bonus and basically 30% of what I'm throwin doesn't do a [Removed for Content] thing to my enemies.   The pendulum swung too far against the mages on this one and now illies are back to being buff bots.</p></blockquote><p>I'm pretty sure nobody's going to buy that illys need big damage to be viable lol.  buff bots with CC, one of the biggest gamechangers in pvp</p>

[ntommyb]

<p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Taldier@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Dojac@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Illusionists got the shaft on this one big time.  We never had the nukes to justify wearing cloth and we got hosed to the point of uselessness on this one.  I've parsed a few matches today and this is what i've found:</p><p>A full 14% of my attacks (swings) landed but failed to do any damage what-so-ever.  Most of the attacks were crits.</p><p>A full 19% of my attacks just didn't land period</p><p>I am not poorly geared, 15 pieces of BG gear.  43% potentcy and 47% crit bonus and basically 30% of what I'm throwin doesn't do a [Removed for Content] thing to my enemies.   The pendulum swung too far against the mages on this one and now illies are back to being buff bots.</p></blockquote><p>You do know that melee avoidance rates are generally higher than that...and ca's cant be recast until they land...?</p><p>And I dont even want to parse the % of melee attacks that get mitigated down to 0 damage vs a decently specced sorc.  I assure you its more than 14%.</p><p>Maybe everything isnt supposed to land for full damage 100% of the time?  Just maybe.</p></blockquote><p>Summoners are [Removed for Content]'d. I can't speak for the enchanters,but as a conjuror..killing anyone in BG's is completely impossible for me. With 50% crit bonus and 40% potency,my biggest hit in BG's was a whopping 1k.</p></blockquote><p>Summoner's never seem to get love</p>

[Stuckx]

<p><cite>ntommyb wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Taldier@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Dojac@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Illusionists got the shaft on this one big time.  We never had the nukes to justify wearing cloth and we got hosed to the point of uselessness on this one.  I've parsed a few matches today and this is what i've found:</p><p>A full 14% of my attacks (swings) landed but failed to do any damage what-so-ever.  Most of the attacks were crits.</p><p>A full 19% of my attacks just didn't land period</p><p>I am not poorly geared, 15 pieces of BG gear.  43% potentcy and 47% crit bonus and basically 30% of what I'm throwin doesn't do a [Removed for Content] thing to my enemies.   The pendulum swung too far against the mages on this one and now illies are back to being buff bots.</p></blockquote><p>You do know that melee avoidance rates are generally higher than that...and ca's cant be recast until they land...?</p><p>And I dont even want to parse the % of melee attacks that get mitigated down to 0 damage vs a decently specced sorc.  I assure you its more than 14%.</p><p>Maybe everything isnt supposed to land for full damage 100% of the time?  Just maybe.</p></blockquote><p>Summoners are [Removed for Content]'d. I can't speak for the enchanters,but as a conjuror..killing anyone in BG's is completely impossible for me. With 50% crit bonus and 40% potency,my biggest hit in BG's was a whopping 1k.</p></blockquote><p>Summoner's never seem to get love</p></blockquote><p>We got a bit of love since the expansion..but of course we get lumped in with the OP sorcs who desperately needed the nerf..and we take the biggest hit from said nerf.</p>

[LardLord]

<p>After playing several matches on my Inquisitor, my opinion is that mages are extremely [Removed for Content].  If all DPS classes are meant to be [Removed for Content], so that every fight is all about disrupting heals and/or running your opponent out of power, melee DPS seems far too high...</p><p>But what's the point of playing a DPS class if you can't blow people up? /shrug</p>

[ntommyb]

<p><cite>Quabi@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>After playing several matches on my Inquisitor, my opinion is that mages are extremely [Removed for Content].  If all DPS classes are meant to be [Removed for Content], so that every fight is all about disrupting heals and/or running your opponent out of power, melee DPS seems far too high...</p><p>But what's the point of playing a DPS class if you can't blow people up? /shrug</p></blockquote><p>The best fights I've ever been in were long long fights.  Steady dps output, saving big hits for the burn, saving the burn until after debuffs, stunning strategically, coordinating spike damage to hit near CC's will put damage in front of heals and wear out the other side, theres so much too it and well lead groups should always beat misfits no matter the gear imo.  I dont' think eq2 pvp is done justice when its a coin flip who wins.  Theres alot more to it than that</p><p>When its over you should have to exhale </p>

[Callim]

<p>Only sony could fix something into a state worse than it started lol.</p><p>On my conjy my damage output is so small now its laughable, I spent a good 30s nuking an assassin while he slaughtered like 5 people, he got to around 5 percent then warped to me and pretty much 1 rounded me.  Biggest EB I've landed since the change was still less than the 6.5k killing blow that finish me, the crit flurry + double for the other 6k of my life didn't help.</p><p>My SK meanwhile is now nearly unkillable, though his damage output is greatly reduced spell wise.  Can run in and grab the flag then run out with the full x2 on me it seems without much trouble.</p><p>/Boggle</p>

[Disma]

<p>Wow this is so funny Soe fails once again.....They always do this over the top reaction...but the thing that is really funny to me is that crusaders have been OP since TSO and many many many people have posted about it but no fix has been made but hey lets nerf casters right away. Well thats fine with me ever since resit and wis changes way back in what update 32 or so mages have been screwed while scouts can do tons of damage wear chain....Crusaders/Zerkers can make top 10 on HEALS, DPS and the DAMAGE TAKEN,  but hey nothing wrong there either lets nerf the casters lol. I just cant wrap my head around this seriously.</p><p>If you want everyone to be Crusaders/Druids/Rogues/Predators get rid of the other classes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</p>

[Dojac]

<p><cite>ntommyb wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Dojac@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Illusionists got the shaft on this one big time.  We never had the nukes to justify wearing cloth and we got hosed to the point of uselessness on this one.  I've parsed a few matches today and this is what i've found:</p><p>A full 14% of my attacks (swings) landed but failed to do any damage what-so-ever.  Most of the attacks were crits.</p><p>A full 19% of my attacks just didn't land period</p><p>I am not poorly geared, 15 pieces of BG gear.  43% potentcy and 47% crit bonus and basically 30% of what I'm throwin doesn't do a [Removed for Content] thing to my enemies.   The pendulum swung too far against the mages on this one and now illies are back to being buff bots.</p></blockquote><p>I'm pretty sure nobody's going to buy that illys need big damage to be viable lol.  buff bots with CC, one of the biggest gamechangers in pvp</p></blockquote><p>With the silly amount of CC clears/blocks out there CC is not a game changer to a decent player.  One on one illies are screwed and if i'm just sposed to be a buff bot hey i'll put someone on af and wander away from my pc.</p>

[Neskonlith]

<p><cite>Dojac@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>With the silly amount of CC clears/blocks out there CC is not a game changer to a decent player.  One on one illies are screwed and if i'm just sposed to be a buff bot hey i'll put someone on af and wander away from my pc.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">1 vs 1 inside a BeeGees is a recipe for failure - if you are accustomed to soloing a BeeGee, then you were too OP.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Try being a team player and help out your group/raid, BeeGees are not meant to be solo games.</span></p>

[Stuckx]

<p><cite>Neskonlith wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Dojac@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>With the silly amount of CC clears/blocks out there CC is not a game changer to a decent player.  One on one illies are screwed and if i'm just sposed to be a buff bot hey i'll put someone on af and wander away from my pc.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">1 vs 1 inside a BeeGees is a recipe for failure - if you are accustomed to soloing a BeeGee, then you were too OP.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Try being a team player and help out your group/raid, BeeGees are not meant to be solo games.</span></p></blockquote><p>I'd love to be a team player as a conj..but my DPS is so insignificant now that the only way I can really contribute is by throwing myself at the enemy as a distraction. =(</p>

[Zabom]

<p>well i just did my first BG since the nerf, and here is what happened. I was standing on the aquaduct guardiing the flag in ganak (inside the base not at the spawn point) when a troube ran in to capture our flag I began casting spells. I got five consecutive resists and only hit with 48% of the spells I cast the entire match. I looked at the troubs buffs, he had nothing out of the ordinary on him yet 12 seconds worth of casting did absolutely nothing. Is there any melee class that will go 12 straight seconds without a single attack hitting? hmm... I don't think so. So i decided to try another match, but instead of my usual defensive BG spec i decided to try my raid spec. In raid spec I I can hit 30k dps no problem and with over 700 disruption and mostly mastered t9 spells i very seldom get resisted. I figured I would die easier, but i will hit a heck of a lot harder. Well this time I got resisted 6 times in a row however the over all hit rate did go up to 54%. I am done with BG until the "fix" is fixed., and I am quite sure many more mages will do the same.</p>

[lollipop]

<p>The ones ive have done asassins wizards warlocks and rangers have dominated the parse for dps. Depending on the group make up ect ect. So far it seems great.</p>

[Neskonlith]

<p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'd love to be a team player as a conj..but my DPS is so insignificant now that the only way I can really contribute is by throwing myself at the enemy as a distraction. =(</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">lol  my lowest melee auto-attack hit as a scout is now 4 dmg!</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">/flex</span></p><p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Stuckx]

<p><cite>Neskonlith wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'd love to be a team player as a conj..but my DPS is so insignificant now that the only way I can really contribute is by throwing myself at the enemy as a distraction. =(</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">lol  my lowest melee auto-attack hit as a scout is now 4 dmg!</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">/flex</span></p><p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Yea..my highest auto attack damage taken as a conj was probably 3k tbh. In the area of 2-3k atleast. Totally love how Auto attacks do more damage than any 3 of my spells combine.</p>

[Dannnybones]

<p>I still top parses in bg's regularly and I'm a coercer, don't see a problem.</p>

[Dannnybones]

<p>On another note, my master 1 mez is almost always resisted now, obliterated psyche is the same....if a scout or tank gets near me I die.  I don't thinkt hey nerfed mage (besides sorcerors), I think they triple everyone elses dps.</p>

[Stuckx]

<p><cite>Macedamian@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>On another note, my master 1 mez is almost always resisted now, obliterated psyche is the same....if a scout or tank gets near me I die.  I don't thinkt hey nerfed mage (besides sorcerors), I think they triple everyone elses dps.</p></blockquote><p>I can't speak for the other casters,but as a conjuror my damage is laughable now. Any meleers can walk up,turn auto attack on and kill me within 5 seconds,while at the same time outhealing my DPS with heal procs off their armor.</p>

[Dannnybones]

<p>I dunno, I know that I can still kill most people with the exception of tanks (who ironically you would think would be the easiest for a mage).</p>

[Stuckx]

<p><cite>Macedamian@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I dunno, I know that I can still kill most people with the exception of tanks (who ironically you would think would be the easiest for a mage).</p></blockquote><p>One on one,I doubt I could kill anyone at this point. In a group on group..my damage is nothing more than an annoyance for a group with even a terrible healer. I shouldn't be able to destroy groups by myself..but at the very least,people's health should drop out of the yellow every now and then.</p>

[Silverzx]

<p>If casters took such a heavy hit, scouts and fighters need their dmg reduced also.  Paladins outparsing a warlock isn't right.  Same with a solo defiler keeping his whole group up against a shadowknight, warlock, wizard, conjuror, coercer, inq in full pvp sets and adept3/masters in a fight that lasted about a minute(their melee dps destroyed us).  Heals need toning down, same with melee dps.</p><p>Did a few BG today, one of them(I'll use this as an example since its pretty much casters vs melee) where the dps parse in that fight was assassin, berserker, shadowknight, ranger, swash, paladin and then followed by the mages.  Top heals that fight was the defiler.  Before the update, that group with a single defiler healing would last about 5-10 seconds max.  Now they last over a minute without losing a single member and us wiping.  Theres gotta be a way to make it so mages aren't so OP without totally gimping them in dmg.  wheres the middle ground?  You simply do not lower mages damage by 90%.  They might have been OP but not by THAT much. Maybe its time to leave the mages out of BG and bring in the scouts.</p>

[Darkonx]

<p>Good mages still blow stuff up. Bad mages are now recognized as bad instead of still doing insane DPS just because resists were broken. A single mage should not be able to take an entire group to 50% when the other group has a healer. That would mean 3 mages vs 6 people, the 3 mages would kill all 6. That would be OP. That is why it was fixed. It requires a TEAM effort now, instead of a soloists art.</p>

[Ralpmet]

<p>I wonder what kind of gear half of the mages complaining are wearing.</p>

[Stuckx]

<p><cite>Darkonx wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Good mages still blow stuff up. Bad mages are now recognized as bad instead of still doing insane DPS just because resists were broken. A single mage should not be able to take an entire group to 50% when the other group has a healer. That would mean 3 mages vs 6 people, the 3 mages would kill all 6. That would be OP. That is why it was fixed. It requires a TEAM effort now, instead of a soloists art.</p></blockquote><p>Good SORCERORS still blow stuff up. They can actually do damage to people still. Conjuror's..not so much. I now do about 20% of the damage I was doing before this fix. I have two single target spells that will hit for MAYBE 1k in PVP now..One that will do 500-800,and the other two do LESS than 500. My green AOE does 500 on the first tick and MAYBE 200 on the following ticks. I understand group effort,but with my current dps as it is..My class does not contribute much to the group,considering 90% of my damage will be outhealed by heal procs.</p>

[Neskonlith]

<p><cite>Silverzx wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If casters took such a heavy hit, scouts and fighters need their dmg reduced also. </p><p>Heals need toning down, same with melee dps.</p><p>Theres gotta be a way to make it so mages aren't so OP without totally gimping them in dmg. </p><p>wheres the middle ground? </p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">The parses I am seeing are showing a lot of variance depending on player skill, agressiveness and opportunity.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">For example, look at the latest Ganak result that I was in and you'll see a mage topped dmg and kills:</span></p><p><img src="http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb310/Bitter_Coffee/screenies/parses/Ganakdps2.jpg" /></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Looks like there might be more factors that need to be examined.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Please post some parses so we can see the effects the new spell resists have on your character inside the BeeGees.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">For instance, my scout vs the other raid in Ganak parsed:</span></p><p><img src="http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb310/Bitter_Coffee/screenies/parses/Ganakparse2.jpg" /></p>

[Tehom]

<p>They can probably do some things to help like attach very large resist debuff procs to either existing or higher tier BG armor that they may add in the future, or possibly attach them to existing Mutilation effects. For one thing additional resist debuff procs would probably make tanks running off without support less viable, since they'd need to rely more on curing from priests to stay as tough as they are. I'm not saying that'd be a perfect fix or anything, but well-geared mages do need something to make them more viable and threatening than mages without any BG armor, and that might be a way.</p><p>I think mutilation needs to be a bit stronger also, or be allowed to stack from multiple casters. It's too easy for a priest to keep up an entire group, or even multiple groups, without too much trouble against large numbers of attackers. Stacking mutilation to dramatically reduce healing would be a good counter to that. I'm not sure what counters mutilation is currently, but it or other very strong proc'd debuffs could probably be curses.</p>

[Silverzx]

<p><cite>Neskonlith wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Silverzx wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If casters took such a heavy hit, scouts and fighters need their dmg reduced also. </p><p>Heals need toning down, same with melee dps.</p><p>Theres gotta be a way to make it so mages aren't so OP without totally gimping them in dmg. </p><p>wheres the middle ground? </p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">The parses I am seeing are showing a lot of variance depending on player skill, agressiveness and opportunity.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">For example, look at the latest Ganak result that I was in and you'll see a mage topped dmg and kills:</span></p><p><img src="http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb310/Bitter_Coffee/screenies/parses/Ganakdps2.jpg" /></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Looks like there might be more factors that need to be examined.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Please post some parses so we can see the effects the new spell resists have on your character inside the BeeGees.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">For instance, my scout vs the other raid in Ganak parsed:</span></p><p><img src="http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb310/Bitter_Coffee/screenies/parses/Ganakparse2.jpg" /></p></blockquote><p>but ganak is a bad example, try cogs.  Oftentimes in ganak, the heavy dps'ers dont even dps, they just ninja the flag in and out so you won't be seeing accurate numbers there.  Not compared to a zone where you have to kill the other team in order to get the relic to win.</p>

[Neskonlith]

<p><cite>Silverzx wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>but ganak is a bad example, try cogs.  Oftentimes in ganak, the heavy dps'ers dont even dps, they just ninja the flag in and out so you won't be seeing accurate numbers there.  Not compared to a zone where you have to kill the other team in order to get the relic to win.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">I have 5 parses posted for Gears inside this thread:</span></p><p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=476404">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=476404</a></p>

[Sinupox]

<p>Had to register an account for this...</p><p>Now before you bash filer dps, consider on raid trash im doing 9-13k dps in heal spec and in the mt group, while still topping the heal parse... filers being crap dps is a myth fed to you by lazy healers. On topic:</p><p>I just did a handful of  BGs and nothing but scouts and a tank or two on the top of the parse/kill shots, whereas before it was a good mix of mages, scouts, and tanks. This change effects more then just mages, as a defiler (sitting at 89-100% potency, 62crit bonus and 1100 ability mod and in a dps spec) previously i could kill someone who wasn't getting heals with a good salvo of attacks, now i cant even kill someone when I GET THE JUMP on them. I took pride in my dps, overnight i went from being able to put out some respectable numbers, to my dps being laughable at best. Filer dps strategy is similar to chanters; throw out a control spell spam fast casting nukes and finish with some sort of spike dps... yesterday my go-to nuke was hitting for 3k, today im lucky if it hits 1250, and thats if it doesn't get resisted. How am i supposed to kill anyone worth a [Removed for Content]?  Mages (and spell based healers for that matter) got hit too hard with this nerfbat. Pvp class balance should be paper scissors rock.. and at the moment its nothing but scouts dominating. Before this "fix" and considering player skill/gear to be equal i ownd pretty much every mage, crusader, and bard 1v1; and got ownd by rogues, predators, and brawlers. Of course this is a generalization, and there are exceptions; but [Removed for Content] eh now i cant kill anything and still get own by said classes... but hey now no mage can even knock me out of green for more then a second. cause thats balanced...</p>

[Novusod]

<p>I think people need to remember there is no "I" in team and battlegrounds is a team centric game. Before there were too many people wanting to be the hero running arround solo one shotting people and even destroying entire groups at will. Hopefully those days are over. Players need to learn how to assist to kill healers and not rely on the one shot. That is where the real pvp skill comes in. That is how PvP was in T8 on Vox and Naggy.</p>

[bks6721]

<p><cite>Darkonx wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Good mages still blow stuff up. Bad mages are now recognized as bad instead of still doing insane DPS just because resists were broken. A single mage should not be able to take an entire group to 50% when the other group has a healer. That would mean 3 mages vs 6 people, the 3 mages would kill all 6. That would be OP. That is why it was fixed. It requires a TEAM effort now, instead of a soloists art.</p></blockquote><p>good mages are now flat out resisted 70% of the time they cast a spell.    Root isn't worth casting anymore, it seems to always resist.  </p>

[bks6721]

<p><cite>Neskonlith wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Silverzx wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If casters took such a heavy hit, scouts and fighters need their dmg reduced also. </p><p>Heals need toning down, same with melee dps.</p><p>Theres gotta be a way to make it so mages aren't so OP without totally gimping them in dmg. </p><p>wheres the middle ground? </p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">The parses I am seeing are showing a lot of variance depending on player skill, agressiveness and opportunity.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">For example, look at the latest Ganak result that I was in and you'll see a mage topped dmg and kills:</span></p><p><img src="http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb310/Bitter_Coffee/screenies/parses/Ganakdps2.jpg" /></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Looks like there might be more factors that need to be examined.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Please post some parses so we can see the effects the new spell resists have on your character inside the BeeGees.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">For instance, my scout vs the other raid in Ganak parsed:</span></p><p><img src="http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb310/Bitter_Coffee/screenies/parses/Ganakparse2.jpg" /></p></blockquote><p>Try playing in level 90 BG's  its night/day difference between 80 and 90</p><p>I also notice in your parse that the Wizard is 8th in damage.  Is that where T1 dps should be?</p>

[Neskonlith]

<p><cite>Jjay@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Try playing in level 90 BG's  its night/day difference between 80 and 90</p><p>I also notice in your parse that the Wizard is 8th in damage.  Is that where T1 dps should be? </p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">My dirge is slowly levelling up with each BeeGee match, so it won't be very long before I am in the 90s.  I'm hearing a lot of stories about 90s, yet seeing nothing getting posted.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">That one Ganak contest also has a mage at the top, with a good lead over the number 2 spot... in other BeeGees I've parsed, sorcs were in the top 3, so some players are obviously still doing something with what they have.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">If the 90s are as radically different as is being claimed, then someone needs to post some numbers.</span></p>

[Darkor]

<p>Thanks again for the resist fixes, about time tbh!</p>

[kaeleth]

<p>This fix was rediculously overdone.  Before the fix, only the really poorly geared people got one-shotted.  I am sorry, but if you go into bg with t9 mc, non-bg gear you should be one-shotted, end of story.  I sit next to a wizard playing bg.  Now any scout with t9 mc crap can kill her in about 2-3 sec.  She examined the people that were killing her and a lot were in really poor gear, yet they were resisting all her spells, most which are master spells.  Can't even dent a tank now.  It has basically made bg not playable by mages end of story.  Who wants to get repeatably killed by scouts when they can't even get an ice comet off before death?  Don't start in about the root crap, they get resisted too.  The only thing this fix has accomplished is to make melee rule the field like it already was for the most part.</p>

[Neskonlith]

<p><span style="color: #ff0000;">BeeGees is a Team effort, and it appears that some casters are now becoming aware of the importance of coordinating with their Team. Smart squishy players stick with their healers and tanks, and move as a group - whether they be casters or scouts.  </span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">The solo stuff to one-shot melt others with bugged-spell resists is over.</span></p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>Sparkey@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This fix was rediculously overdone.  Before the fix, only the really poorly geared people got one-shotted.  I am sorry, but if you go into bg with t9 mc, non-bg gear you should be one-shotted, end of story. </p></blockquote><p>What fantasy land did you live in?</p><p>In full BG armor, 25k hp, and 15k+ resists, I could charge a wiz or warlock and I'd be doing good to last more than 3.5 seconds from the time they got a target on me.  If there was more than one caster in range, I would have 0 chance of landing a blow before on the ground.</p><p>Now, with the same stance I pose a threat to a wizard alone and in the open.  However, if he's working with an illy for control effects, or has a tank to keep my target off them for a few seconds, they still win and dps me to the ground.</p><p>The game is far better post fix as it now requires and rewards coordination more consistently than brute force.</p>

[Zabom]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Sparkey@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This fix was rediculously overdone.  Before the fix, only the really poorly geared people got one-shotted.  I am sorry, but if you go into bg with t9 mc, non-bg gear you should be one-shotted, end of story. </p></blockquote><p>What fantasy land did you live in?</p><p>In full BG armor, 25k hp, and 15k+ resists, I could charge a wiz or warlock and I'd be doing good to last more than 3.5 seconds from the time they got a target on me.  If there was more than one caster in range, I would have 0 chance of landing a blow before on the ground.</p><p>Now, with the same stance I pose a threat to a wizard alone and in the open.  However, if he's working with an illy for control effects, or has a tank to keep my target off them for a few seconds, they still win and dps me to the ground.</p><p>The game is far better post fix as it now requires and rewards coordination more consistently than brute force.</p></blockquote><p>ok so wait. It's wrong for you to do zero damage on a wizard when he catches you at full range, but it's right for a mage to do zero damage to you when you catch him in melee range and keep him stunned?</p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>Zabom wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>ok so wait. It's wrong for you to do zero damage on a wizard when he catches you at full range, but it's right for a mage to do zero damage to you when you catch him in melee range and keep him stunned?</p></blockquote><p>No its wrong at 100% crit mit, 25k hp, and 80% magical mitigation to die in from 3 seconds of casting. </p><p>If he got his control effects off and held me out of melee range for 10-15s with those stats, I see no issue with it.</p><p>The primary issue with the way things were, even with 2 healers going all out on a tank with those stats, a single caster would bring the tank down in seconds.</p><p>With the changes, that is no longer going to happen.</p>

[bks6721]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Zabom wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>ok so wait. It's wrong for you to do zero damage on a wizard when he catches you at full range, but it's right for a mage to do zero damage to you when you catch him in melee range and keep him stunned?</p></blockquote><p>No its wrong at 100% crit mit, 25k hp, and 80% magical mitigation to die in from 3 seconds of casting. </p><p>If he got his control effects off and held me out of melee range for 10-15s with those stats, I see no issue with it.</p><p>The primary issue with the way things were, even with 2 healers going all out on a tank with those stats, a single caster would bring the tank down in seconds.</p><p>With the changes, that is no longer going to happen.</p></blockquote><p>if you would have coordinated your groups better and had someone engage the sorceror you might not have died.  Nerfing their damage to nothing was not the answer.</p>

[kaeleth]

<p>Yeah and it is wrong for a mage to catch someone at range, try to root them 3 or 4 times for resists at expert or better spells, and die in 2 sec to a scout when they are wearing nearly a full set of bg armor and jewelery.  Its great that stuff is better for your class, but worse for others.  Its time to stop being so self-centric and look at the big picture.  The only thing this gains is there will be no casters and mostly no healers in bg.  It will be a bunch of scouts and fighters with 40 bloodletters duking it out for 20 min and not killing each other...wheee!</p>

[ericman]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Sparkey@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This fix was rediculously overdone.  Before the fix, only the really poorly geared people got one-shotted.  I am sorry, but if you go into bg with t9 mc, non-bg gear you should be one-shotted, end of story. </p></blockquote><p>What fantasy land did you live in?</p><p>In full BG armor, 25k hp, and 15k+ resists, I could charge a wiz or warlock and I'd be doing good to last more than 3.5 seconds from the time they got a target on me.  If there was more than one caster in range, I would have 0 chance of landing a blow before on the ground.</p><p>Now, with the same stance I pose a threat to a wizard alone and in the open.  However, if he's working with an illy for control effects, or has a tank to keep my target off them for a few seconds, they still win and dps me to the ground.</p><p>The game is far better post fix as it now requires and rewards coordination more consistently than brute force.</p></blockquote><p> So where's your tank and illy in this scenario?  And if you're a tank, where's your healer?  You seem to think you should be able to run in without any support while telling sorcerers they should never run around alone.  Seems pretty unbalanced in your favor tbh. </p>

[Crismorn]

<p>Healing needs to be nerfed/lowered immediately.</p><p>Right now if both sides have half decent or better healers the stalemate will last for entire matches</p>

[Zabom]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Zabom wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>ok so wait. It's wrong for you to do zero damage on a wizard when he catches you at full range, but it's right for a mage to do zero damage to you when you catch him in melee range and keep him stunned?</p></blockquote><p>No its wrong at 100% crit mit, 25k hp, and 80% magical mitigation to die in from 3 seconds of casting. </p><p>If he got his control effects off and held me out of melee range for 10-15s with those stats, I see no issue with it.</p><p>The primary issue with the way things were, even with 2 healers going all out on a tank with those stats, a single caster would bring the tank down in seconds.</p><p>With the changes, that is no longer going to happen.</p></blockquote><p>So your 100% crit mit 25k hp and 80% magic mit should automatically trump my 62% potency 120% crit bonus and 721 disruption skill? I'm sorry, I didn't realize I was talking to the BEST player in the game. Why sir you are a GOD no one should ever kill you. No wonder you are so upset that you got killed by mages. Gods after all do have the biggest egos.</p><p>So it should take a mage 10-15 seconds to kill you. Yet I, who am actually fairly well geared and, despite the argument that you will undoubtedly throw out next that I "am obviously speced wrong", am speced right, have many times been killed by scouts and tanks in under 3 seconds. My usual spell line up in bg is to lead with storming tempest. That is a dot that causes knock down. Then icy spears, a elemental mit debuff then magma chamber, a medium nuke with a stun componant. Finally ice comet which would usually finish the solo player off. Total casting time about 8 seconds. since roots are so easily dispelled, the knock backs and stun are the better control effect for wizzys. that line up seems to me a fair kill. Now with the fix, if i use my above listed line up and any one of the spells get resisted the melee class is on me and I am stunned and stifled until I am dead. Since 50% of my spells are getting resisted the odds that I get off all 4 spells with out a resist are slim. even if all of them were to go off, they are now at over 50% health and, as you yourself said, I should have no chance against them once they are on me.</p><p>With my brig, i can target someone hit walk the plank, dispatch, blackjack, bumrush, backstab and shank and double auto attack twice all in under 3 seconds and kill every mage I have gone against. my wizard is far better geared and i have 5 years experiance as a mage and only 8 months as a brig.</p><p>There is a one to one balance issue in favor of melee classes. Teamwork can overcome this. Unfortunately until they scrap the matchmaker and create a BG hub teamwork is a pipe dream unless you have a full group to start. On pve servers, if you able to form a full group to start, you are more likely to do an instance or 1 group a tier 8 raid zone. In gears teamwork is fairly easy. In ganak and den you are likely to end up by yourself at some point by no fault of your own so being able to fight one to one is needed for all classes.</p>

[ailen]

<p>I will make these generalities:</p><p>Solo,  NO MAGE should ever kill a well geared tank which has a healer healing him.  Not ever... with two?  it shouldn't even enter your mind.</p><p>three days ago mages could... that was broken.</p>

[bks6721]

<p><cite>Sparkey@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Yeah and it is wrong for a mage to catch someone at range, try to root them 3 or 4 times for resists at expert or better spells, and die in 2 sec to a scout when they are wearing nearly a full set of bg armor and jewelery.  Its great that stuff is better for your class, but worse for others.  Its time to stop being so self-centric and look at the big picture.  The only thing this gains is there will be no casters and mostly no healers in bg.  It will be a bunch of scouts and fighters with 40 bloodletters duking it out for 20 min and not killing each other...wheee!</p></blockquote><p>Oh no.. I definately plan to keep taking my wizard in and doing 80% less damage than I was doing before.  I will happily watch as a flag runner runs off while my roots are resisted repeatedly.</p><p>When people start to groan when they see a group full of mages then maybe the problem will be acknowledged.</p>

[Darkonx]

<p><cite>Sparkey@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This fix was rediculously overdone.  Before the fix, only the really poorly geared people got one-shotted.  I am sorry, but if you go into bg with t9 mc, non-bg gear you should be one-shotted, end of story.  I sit next to a wizard playing bg.  Now any scout with t9 mc crap can kill her in about 2-3 sec.  She examined the people that were killing her and a lot were in really poor gear, yet they were resisting all her spells, most which are master spells.  Can't even dent a tank now.  It has basically made bg not playable by mages end of story.  Who wants to get repeatably killed by scouts when they can't even get an ice comet off before death?  Don't start in about the root crap, they get resisted too.  The only thing this fix has accomplished is to make melee rule the field like it already was for the most part.</p></blockquote><p>I have some of the best gear in the game and got routinely one shotted by a double attacked ice comet.</p>

[bks6721]

<p><cite>Darkonx wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Sparkey@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This fix was rediculously overdone.  Before the fix, only the really poorly geared people got one-shotted.  I am sorry, but if you go into bg with t9 mc, non-bg gear you should be one-shotted, end of story.  I sit next to a wizard playing bg.  Now any scout with t9 mc crap can kill her in about 2-3 sec.  She examined the people that were killing her and a lot were in really poor gear, yet they were resisting all her spells, most which are master spells.  Can't even dent a tank now.  It has basically made bg not playable by mages end of story.  Who wants to get repeatably killed by scouts when they can't even get an ice comet off before death?  Don't start in about the root crap, they get resisted too.  The only thing this fix has accomplished is to make melee rule the field like it already was for the most part.</p></blockquote><p>I have some of the best gear in the game and got routinely one shotted by a double attacked ice comet.</p></blockquote><p>double attack ice comets are not routine.  I was hit by ONE of them last week.</p>

[Disma]

<p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Healing needs to be nerfed/lowered immediately.</p><p>Right now if both sides have half decent or better healers the stalemate will last for entire matches</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong>So let me see if i have this straight...</strong></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong></strong></span></p><ul><li><span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong>Nerf damage output of mages</strong></span></li></ul><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong></strong></span></p><ul><li><span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong>Nerf heals because now there is not enough damage to out dps heals</strong></span></li></ul><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong></strong></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong></strong></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong>makes total sense to me</strong></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong></strong></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong></strong></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong></strong></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong></strong></span></p>

[Darkonx]

<p><cite>Jjay@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Darkonx wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Sparkey@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This fix was rediculously overdone.  Before the fix, only the really poorly geared people got one-shotted.  I am sorry, but if you go into bg with t9 mc, non-bg gear you should be one-shotted, end of story.  I sit next to a wizard playing bg.  Now any scout with t9 mc crap can kill her in about 2-3 sec.  She examined the people that were killing her and a lot were in really poor gear, yet they were resisting all her spells, most which are master spells.  Can't even dent a tank now.  It has basically made bg not playable by mages end of story.  Who wants to get repeatably killed by scouts when they can't even get an ice comet off before death?  Don't start in about the root crap, they get resisted too.  The only thing this fix has accomplished is to make melee rule the field like it already was for the most part.</p></blockquote><p>I have some of the best gear in the game and got routinely one shotted by a double attacked ice comet.</p></blockquote><p>double attack ice comets are not routine.  I was hit by ONE of them last week.</p></blockquote><p>You still think having a 12% chance of one shotting a fully geared tank with 3 healers on him, once every 40s, is fair? lol.</p>

[Crismorn]

<p><cite>Dismall@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Healing needs to be nerfed/lowered immediately.</p><p>Right now if both sides have half decent or better healers the stalemate will last for entire matches</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong>So let me see if i have this straight...</strong></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong></strong></span></p><ul><li><span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong>Nerf damage output of mages</strong></span></li></ul><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong></strong></span></p><ul><li><span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong>Nerf heals because now there is not enough damage to out dps heals</strong></span></li></ul><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong></strong></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong></strong></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong>makes total sense to me</strong></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong></strong></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong></strong></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong></strong></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong></strong></span></p></blockquote><p>Mages were nerfed because the eq2 community cannot handle or deal with being one shotted.</p><p>Heals must be nerfed now for there to be even a semblance of balance in group vs group or raid vs raid settings</p>

[Taldier]

<p><cite>Jjay@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Darkonx wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Sparkey@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This fix was rediculously overdone.  Before the fix, only the really poorly geared people got one-shotted.  I am sorry, but if you go into bg with t9 mc, non-bg gear you should be one-shotted, end of story.  I sit next to a wizard playing bg.  Now any scout with t9 mc crap can kill her in about 2-3 sec.  She examined the people that were killing her and a lot were in really poor gear, yet they were resisting all her spells, most which are master spells.  Can't even dent a tank now.  It has basically made bg not playable by mages end of story.  Who wants to get repeatably killed by scouts when they can't even get an ice comet off before death?  Don't start in about the root crap, they get resisted too.  The only thing this fix has accomplished is to make melee rule the field like it already was for the most part.</p></blockquote><p>I have some of the best gear in the game and got routinely one shotted by a double attacked ice comet.</p></blockquote><p>double attack ice comets are not routine.  I was hit by ONE of them last week.</p></blockquote><p>1 out of 10 isnt exactly "rare" either.  You might not cast one every match, but youre likely to be hit by atleast one every match if you are a tank taunting people.</p>

[Zabom]

<p><cite>Darkonx wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Jjay@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Darkonx wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Sparkey@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This fix was rediculously overdone.  Before the fix, only the really poorly geared people got one-shotted.  I am sorry, but if you go into bg with t9 mc, non-bg gear you should be one-shotted, end of story.  I sit next to a wizard playing bg.  Now any scout with t9 mc crap can kill her in about 2-3 sec.  She examined the people that were killing her and a lot were in really poor gear, yet they were resisting all her spells, most which are master spells.  Can't even dent a tank now.  It has basically made bg not playable by mages end of story.  Who wants to get repeatably killed by scouts when they can't even get an ice comet off before death?  Don't start in about the root crap, they get resisted too.  The only thing this fix has accomplished is to make melee rule the field like it already was for the most part.</p></blockquote><p>I have some of the best gear in the game and got routinely one shotted by a double attacked ice comet.</p></blockquote><p>double attack ice comets are not routine.  I was hit by ONE of them last week.</p></blockquote><p>You still think having a 12% chance of one shotting a fully geared tank with 3 healers on him, once every 40s, is fair? lol.</p></blockquote><p>that is an obvious exageration. Most tanks have over 20k hp with 2 healers, wards  will usually add another 5k and reactives will heal him for another 5k as soon as he is hit. Before the nerf a high ice comet  was 12k (maybe 1 in 100 hit that hard average hit about 8k) if it double attacked maybe 20k. The tank would be in the red but 2 healers doing their job would have no problem getting him to full green before ice comet is up again. any tank that was getting 1 shotted with 3 healers on him either needs to wake up his healers or needs to put on his gear.</p>

[Zabom]

<p><cite>Taldier@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Jjay@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Darkonx wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Sparkey@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This fix was rediculously overdone.  Before the fix, only the really poorly geared people got one-shotted.  I am sorry, but if you go into bg with t9 mc, non-bg gear you should be one-shotted, end of story.  I sit next to a wizard playing bg.  Now any scout with t9 mc crap can kill her in about 2-3 sec.  She examined the people that were killing her and a lot were in really poor gear, yet they were resisting all her spells, most which are master spells.  Can't even dent a tank now.  It has basically made bg not playable by mages end of story.  Who wants to get repeatably killed by scouts when they can't even get an ice comet off before death?  Don't start in about the root crap, they get resisted too.  The only thing this fix has accomplished is to make melee rule the field like it already was for the most part.</p></blockquote><p>I have some of the best gear in the game and got routinely one shotted by a double attacked ice comet.</p></blockquote><p>double attack ice comets are not routine.  I was hit by ONE of them last week.</p></blockquote><p>1 out of 10 isnt exactly "rare" either.  You might not cast one every match, but youre likely to be hit by atleast one every match if you are a tank taunting people.</p></blockquote><p>And of course 1 death in a whole match is 1 too many for any tank.</p>

[Taldier]

<p><cite>Zabom wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Taldier@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Jjay@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Darkonx wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Sparkey@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This fix was rediculously overdone.  Before the fix, only the really poorly geared people got one-shotted.  I am sorry, but if you go into bg with t9 mc, non-bg gear you should be one-shotted, end of story.  I sit next to a wizard playing bg.  Now any scout with t9 mc crap can kill her in about 2-3 sec.  She examined the people that were killing her and a lot were in really poor gear, yet they were resisting all her spells, most which are master spells.  Can't even dent a tank now.  It has basically made bg not playable by mages end of story.  Who wants to get repeatably killed by scouts when they can't even get an ice comet off before death?  Don't start in about the root crap, they get resisted too.  The only thing this fix has accomplished is to make melee rule the field like it already was for the most part.</p></blockquote><p>I have some of the best gear in the game and got routinely one shotted by a double attacked ice comet.</p></blockquote><p>double attack ice comets are not routine.  I was hit by ONE of them last week.</p></blockquote><p>1 out of 10 isnt exactly "rare" either.  You might not cast one every match, but youre likely to be hit by atleast one every match if you are a tank taunting people.</p></blockquote><p>And of course 1 death in a whole match is 1 too many for any tank.</p></blockquote><p>Once per match is being generous.  And yes, tanks should not be killed in a single hit from 30+ meters away while they have heals on them.  That defeats the purpose of them having taunts.  Pre-fix, 24 sorcs would have outright owned any properly set up balanced raidforce.  That is the definition of imbalance.</p>

[bks6721]

<p><cite>Darkonx wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Jjay@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Darkonx wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Sparkey@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This fix was rediculously overdone.  Before the fix, only the really poorly geared people got one-shotted.  I am sorry, but if you go into bg with t9 mc, non-bg gear you should be one-shotted, end of story.  I sit next to a wizard playing bg.  Now any scout with t9 mc crap can kill her in about 2-3 sec.  She examined the people that were killing her and a lot were in really poor gear, yet they were resisting all her spells, most which are master spells.  Can't even dent a tank now.  It has basically made bg not playable by mages end of story.  Who wants to get repeatably killed by scouts when they can't even get an ice comet off before death?  Don't start in about the root crap, they get resisted too.  The only thing this fix has accomplished is to make melee rule the field like it already was for the most part.</p></blockquote><p>I have some of the best gear in the game and got routinely one shotted by a double attacked ice comet.</p></blockquote><p>double attack ice comets are not routine.  I was hit by ONE of them last week.</p></blockquote><p>You still think having a 12% chance of one shotting a fully geared tank with 3 healers on him, once every 40s, is fair? lol.</p></blockquote><p>Yes considering YOU have a 70% chance to outright resist the spell in the first place.</p>

[Badmotorfinger]

<p>The resist fixes; fixed sorcs, but shafted the rest of the mages.</p>

[Silverzx]

<p>heals have to be lowered or theres no way you're gonna be a duo healer group without scouts.  Yes even if you have taunts, heals, etc you're eventually gonna die since you can't kill them.  on the same note lower scout dps to that of mages, seems only fair</p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>Silverzx wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>heals have to be lowered or theres no way you're gonna be a duo healer group without scouts.  Yes even if you have taunts, heals, etc you're eventually gonna die since you can't kill them.  on the same note lower scout dps to that of mages, seems only fair</p></blockquote><p>Luckily there is proc gear designed specifically to overcome these healers.</p><p>And I'm not seeing scouts doing more damage than mages while I have them locked on me, in fact the dps numbers on the matches demonstrate mages still rule the nest.</p><p>The changes required us to coordinate differently, and pick some items that were previously not needed, but I'd hardly say they 'broke the game'.</p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>Jjay@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Yes considering YOU have a 70% chance to outright resist the spell in the first place.</p></blockquote><p>You have any parse data to demonstrate the 70% number?</p><p>Is that pre or post debuffing elemental?</p>

[bks6721]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Jjay@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Yes considering YOU have a 70% chance to outright resist the spell in the first place.</p></blockquote><p>You have any parse data to demonstrate the 70% number?</p><p>Is that pre or post debuffing elemental?</p></blockquote><p>I fail at searching.  70% outright resist is something I read about the change that Timetraveling was working on, but I can't find it and the update notes are too vague.</p><p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=474221" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=474221</a></p><p>75% to outright resist.  my bad.</p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>Jjay@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Jjay@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Yes considering YOU have a 70% chance to outright resist the spell in the first place.</p></blockquote><p>You have any parse data to demonstrate the 70% number?</p><p>Is that pre or post debuffing elemental?</p></blockquote><p>I fail at searching.  70% outright resist is something I read about the change that Timetraveling was working on, but I can't find it and the update notes are too vague.</p><p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=474221" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=474221</a></p><p>75% to outright resist.  my bad.</p></blockquote><p>He states 'based upon the extremely old formulas'.</p><p>He does not state the current calculation.</p><p>Remember what ever the chance is, your spell quality has a resistability component on it that says '12% harder to resist' that lowers whatever the capped % is.</p><p>For master1 debuffs against someone resist stat capped, I anticipate a better than 50% chance of landing, in fact, closer to 33%.  Once debuffs are landed, the player is no longer max capped and other spells are easier to land.  If you can stack resist types, you get your targets mitigation from 80% to 40% with a near 100% land rate.  At such point he's dead pretty quick. (based upon all master abilities, lesser players will see less success)</p><p>All that being said, I'm not contending that the '% harder to resist' values *might* need to be changed for pvp now that resists actually work.  Fact is, I don't think we had any relative data to base that claim on until they were fixed first.</p><p>Now, if you actually have some hard data to provide, I, and I'm sure others would be very intersted in seeing is the hit rate of debuffs or properly debuffed players is off.</p>

[Notsovilepriest]

<p><cite>Zabom wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Darkonx wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Jjay@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Darkonx wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Sparkey@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This fix was rediculously overdone.  Before the fix, only the really poorly geared people got one-shotted.  I am sorry, but if you go into bg with t9 mc, non-bg gear you should be one-shotted, end of story.  I sit next to a wizard playing bg.  Now any scout with t9 mc crap can kill her in about 2-3 sec.  She examined the people that were killing her and a lot were in really poor gear, yet they were resisting all her spells, most which are master spells.  Can't even dent a tank now.  It has basically made bg not playable by mages end of story.  Who wants to get repeatably killed by scouts when they can't even get an ice comet off before death?  Don't start in about the root crap, they get resisted too.  The only thing this fix has accomplished is to make melee rule the field like it already was for the most part.</p></blockquote><p>I have some of the best gear in the game and got routinely one shotted by a double attacked ice comet.</p></blockquote><p>double attack ice comets are not routine.  I was hit by ONE of them last week.</p></blockquote><p>You still think having a 12% chance of one shotting a fully geared tank with 3 healers on him, once every 40s, is fair? lol.</p></blockquote><p>that is an obvious exageration. Most tanks have over 20k hp with 2 healers, wards  will usually add another 5k and reactives will heal him for another 5k as soon as he is hit. Before the nerf a high ice comet  was 12k (maybe 1 in 100 hit that hard average hit about 8k) if it double attacked maybe 20k. The tank would be in the red but 2 healers doing their job would have no problem getting him to full green before ice comet is up again. any tank that was getting 1 shotted with 3 healers on him either needs to wake up his healers or needs to put on his gear.</p></blockquote><p>First of all, To all the sorcs now crying because it takes more than 1 button press to kill someone...Lol.</p><p>Second of all, Pre this fix, I was BoF'ed with cap Elemental Resists and ~220 Toughness for 8k(non-DA). Not IC or Fusion, BoF. 12k IC seems pretty lowball for the resists before.</p><p>I really do pity you not being able to just click one button and kill someone...Not. All the sorcs thats could PvP for real are still going to be fine, all the ones that exploited(Not in the cheating way) broken resist mechanics are now realizing, "Wow, maybe I wasn't as good as I thought I was"</p><p>Also, Reactives don't proc if they die from the hit</p>

[Stuckx]

<p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Zabom wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Darkonx wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Jjay@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Darkonx wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Sparkey@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This fix was rediculously overdone.  Before the fix, only the really poorly geared people got one-shotted.  I am sorry, but if you go into bg with t9 mc, non-bg gear you should be one-shotted, end of story.  I sit next to a wizard playing bg.  Now any scout with t9 mc crap can kill her in about 2-3 sec.  She examined the people that were killing her and a lot were in really poor gear, yet they were resisting all her spells, most which are master spells.  Can't even dent a tank now.  It has basically made bg not playable by mages end of story.  Who wants to get repeatably killed by scouts when they can't even get an ice comet off before death?  Don't start in about the root crap, they get resisted too.  The only thing this fix has accomplished is to make melee rule the field like it already was for the most part.</p></blockquote><p>I have some of the best gear in the game and got routinely one shotted by a double attacked ice comet.</p></blockquote><p>double attack ice comets are not routine.  I was hit by ONE of them last week.</p></blockquote><p>You still think having a 12% chance of one shotting a fully geared tank with 3 healers on him, once every 40s, is fair? lol.</p></blockquote><p>that is an obvious exageration. Most tanks have over 20k hp with 2 healers, wards  will usually add another 5k and reactives will heal him for another 5k as soon as he is hit. Before the nerf a high ice comet  was 12k (maybe 1 in 100 hit that hard average hit about 8k) if it double attacked maybe 20k. The tank would be in the red but 2 healers doing their job would have no problem getting him to full green before ice comet is up again. any tank that was getting 1 shotted with 3 healers on him either needs to wake up his healers or needs to put on his gear.</p></blockquote><p>First of all, To all the sorcs now crying because it takes more than 1 button press to kill someone...Lol.</p><p>Second of all, Pre this fix, I was BoF'ed with cap Elemental Resists and ~220 Toughness for 8k(non-DA). Not IC or Fusion, BoF. 12k IC seems pretty lowball for the resists before.</p><p>I really do pity you not being able to just click one button and kill someone...Not. All the sorcs thats could PvP for real are still going to be fine, all the ones that exploited(Not in the cheating way) broken resist mechanics are now realizing, "Wow, maybe I wasn't as good as I thought I was"</p><p>Also, Reactives don't proc if they from the hit</p></blockquote><p>And all the other mage's who got hit with this blanket nerf that don't have a tenth of the survivabilty of sorcs are completely [Removed for Content] because they can't deal enough DPS to kill that scout meleeing them for 2k auto attacks.</p>

[Taldier]

<p><cite>Jjay@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I fail at searching.  70% outright resist is something I read about the change that Timetraveling was working on, but I can't find it and the update notes are too vague.</p><p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=474221" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=474221</a></p><p>75% to outright resist.  my bad.</p></blockquote><p>No, you only fail at reading.</p><p>75% is what the original formula would have granted without the scaling mults.  This is why the multipliers were necessary before sf release.  When they completely revamped the formula they accidentally left these mults in place.</p><p>Now they have removed them.</p><p>What you are now seeing is the actual intended resists that we were supposed to have at sf launch based on the new formula.</p>

[bks6721]

<p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Zabom wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Darkonx wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Jjay@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Darkonx wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Sparkey@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This fix was rediculously overdone.  Before the fix, only the really poorly geared people got one-shotted.  I am sorry, but if you go into bg with t9 mc, non-bg gear you should be one-shotted, end of story.  I sit next to a wizard playing bg.  Now any scout with t9 mc crap can kill her in about 2-3 sec.  She examined the people that were killing her and a lot were in really poor gear, yet they were resisting all her spells, most which are master spells.  Can't even dent a tank now.  It has basically made bg not playable by mages end of story.  Who wants to get repeatably killed by scouts when they can't even get an ice comet off before death?  Don't start in about the root crap, they get resisted too.  The only thing this fix has accomplished is to make melee rule the field like it already was for the most part.</p></blockquote><p>I have some of the best gear in the game and got routinely one shotted by a double attacked ice comet.</p></blockquote><p>double attack ice comets are not routine.  I was hit by ONE of them last week.</p></blockquote><p>You still think having a 12% chance of one shotting a fully geared tank with 3 healers on him, once every 40s, is fair? lol.</p></blockquote><p>that is an obvious exageration. Most tanks have over 20k hp with 2 healers, wards  will usually add another 5k and reactives will heal him for another 5k as soon as he is hit. Before the nerf a high ice comet  was 12k (maybe 1 in 100 hit that hard average hit about 8k) if it double attacked maybe 20k. The tank would be in the red but 2 healers doing their job would have no problem getting him to full green before ice comet is up again. any tank that was getting 1 shotted with 3 healers on him either needs to wake up his healers or needs to put on his gear.</p></blockquote><p>First of all, To all the sorcs now crying because it takes more than 1 button press to kill someone...Lol.</p><p>Second of all, Pre this fix, I was BoF'ed with cap Elemental Resists and ~220 Toughness for 8k(non-DA). Not IC or Fusion, BoF. 12k IC seems pretty lowball for the resists before.</p><p>I really do pity you not being able to just click one button and kill someone...Not. All the sorcs thats could PvP for real are still going to be fine, all the ones that exploited(Not in the cheating way) broken resist mechanics are now realizing, "Wow, maybe I wasn't as good as I thought I was"</p><p>Also, Reactives don't proc if they die from the hit</p></blockquote><p>1 spell to 5 or 6 would have been a fix.   1 spell to 20 is not.</p><p>I'd like to know how many times us newb Wizards where ONE shotting you?   I know when I killed YOU it took over 40 seconds to do so.</p>

[bks6721]

<p><cite>Taldier@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Jjay@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I fail at searching.  70% outright resist is something I read about the change that Timetraveling was working on, but I can't find it and the update notes are too vague.</p><p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=474221" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=474221</a></p><p>75% to outright resist.  my bad.</p></blockquote><p>No, you only fail at reading.</p><p>75% is what the original formula would have granted without the scaling mults.  This is why the multipliers were necessary before sf release.  When they completely revamped the formula they accidentally left these mults in place.</p><p>Now they have removed them.</p><p>What you are now seeing is the actual intended resists that we were supposed to have at sf launch based on the new formula.</p></blockquote><p>oh ok, good.  I didn't know 4 out of 7 spells where supposed to resist.  When will melee attacks equal that?</p>

[Notsovilepriest]

<p><cite>Jjay@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Taldier@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Jjay@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I fail at searching.  70% outright resist is something I read about the change that Timetraveling was working on, but I can't find it and the update notes are too vague.</p><p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=474221" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=474221</a></p><p>75% to outright resist.  my bad.</p></blockquote><p>No, you only fail at reading.</p><p>75% is what the original formula would have granted without the scaling mults.  This is why the multipliers were necessary before sf release.  When they completely revamped the formula they accidentally left these mults in place.</p><p>Now they have removed them.</p><p>What you are now seeing is the actual intended resists that we were supposed to have at sf launch based on the new formula.</p></blockquote><p>oh ok, good.  I didn't know 4 out of 7 spells where supposed to resist.  When will melee attacks equal that?</p></blockquote><p>You realize as a mage you get 10% Uncontested avoidance right?</p>

[Stuckx]

<p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Jjay@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Taldier@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Jjay@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I fail at searching.  70% outright resist is something I read about the change that Timetraveling was working on, but I can't find it and the update notes are too vague.</p><p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=474221" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=474221</a></p><p>75% to outright resist.  my bad.</p></blockquote><p>No, you only fail at reading.</p><p>75% is what the original formula would have granted without the scaling mults.  This is why the multipliers were necessary before sf release.  When they completely revamped the formula they accidentally left these mults in place.</p><p>Now they have removed them.</p><p>What you are now seeing is the actual intended resists that we were supposed to have at sf launch based on the new formula.</p></blockquote><p>oh ok, good.  I didn't know 4 out of 7 spells where supposed to resist.  When will melee attacks equal that?</p></blockquote><p>You realize as a mage you get 10% Uncontested avoidance right?</p></blockquote><p>Ahmagawd. 10% uncontested avoidance? REALLY? Didn't realize we were so leet. So that means I have..what? .2 seconds longer survivability as a conj? That 10% really saves my butt.</p>

[Notsovilepriest]

<p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Jjay@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Taldier@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Jjay@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I fail at searching.  70% outright resist is something I read about the change that Timetraveling was working on, but I can't find it and the update notes are too vague.</p><p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=474221" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=474221</a></p><p>75% to outright resist.  my bad.</p></blockquote><p>No, you only fail at reading.</p><p>75% is what the original formula would have granted without the scaling mults.  This is why the multipliers were necessary before sf release.  When they completely revamped the formula they accidentally left these mults in place.</p><p>Now they have removed them.</p><p>What you are now seeing is the actual intended resists that we were supposed to have at sf launch based on the new formula.</p></blockquote><p>oh ok, good.  I didn't know 4 out of 7 spells where supposed to resist.  When will melee attacks equal that?</p></blockquote><p>You realize as a mage you get 10% Uncontested avoidance right?</p></blockquote><p>Ahmagawd. 10% uncontested avoidance? REALLY? Didn't realize we were so leet. So that means I have..what? .2 seconds longer survivability as a conj? That 10% really saves my butt.</p></blockquote><p>Or the fact, That you have 10% more of something almost no other class has which helps with the melee damage you complain about</p>

[Stuckx]

<p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Jjay@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Taldier@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Jjay@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I fail at searching.  70% outright resist is something I read about the change that Timetraveling was working on, but I can't find it and the update notes are too vague.</p><p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=474221" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=474221</a></p><p>75% to outright resist.  my bad.</p></blockquote><p>No, you only fail at reading.</p><p>75% is what the original formula would have granted without the scaling mults.  This is why the multipliers were necessary before sf release.  When they completely revamped the formula they accidentally left these mults in place.</p><p>Now they have removed them.</p><p>What you are now seeing is the actual intended resists that we were supposed to have at sf launch based on the new formula.</p></blockquote><p>oh ok, good.  I didn't know 4 out of 7 spells where supposed to resist.  When will melee attacks equal that?</p></blockquote><p>You realize as a mage you get 10% Uncontested avoidance right?</p></blockquote><p>Ahmagawd. 10% uncontested avoidance? REALLY? Didn't realize we were so leet. So that means I have..what? .2 seconds longer survivability as a conj? That 10% really saves my butt.</p></blockquote><p>Or the fact, That you have 10% more of something almost no other class has which helps with the melee damage you complain about</p></blockquote><p>Doesn't help with the melee damage at all tbh. 80% of their auto attacks always land,and I rarely if ever avoid a CA.</p>

[bks6721]

<p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Jjay@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Taldier@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Jjay@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I fail at searching.  70% outright resist is something I read about the change that Timetraveling was working on, but I can't find it and the update notes are too vague.</p><p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=474221" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=474221</a></p><p>75% to outright resist.  my bad.</p></blockquote><p>No, you only fail at reading.</p><p>75% is what the original formula would have granted without the scaling mults.  This is why the multipliers were necessary before sf release.  When they completely revamped the formula they accidentally left these mults in place.</p><p>Now they have removed them.</p><p>What you are now seeing is the actual intended resists that we were supposed to have at sf launch based on the new formula.</p></blockquote><p>oh ok, good.  I didn't know 4 out of 7 spells where supposed to resist.  When will melee attacks equal that?</p></blockquote><p>You realize as a mage you get 10% Uncontested avoidance right?</p></blockquote><p>thats comforting to know when i die in 5 seconds to high melee dps.  Yes, I'm defensive spec'd 231aa 15 pieces of bg gear. 480 toughness blah blah..   As it stands now I couldn't kill an afk person in less than 20 seconds.  Most classes could kill me in half that.</p>

[Uthel]

<p>I'm leveling my zerker</p><p>The day of the wizard has ended</p>

[Horgana]

<p><cite>Uthel@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm leveling my zerker</p><p>The day of the wizard has ended</p></blockquote><p>Zerker? ROFL ... SK FTW!</p>

[Uthel]

<p><cite>Horgana@Butcherblock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Uthel@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm leveling my zerker</p><p>The day of the wizard has ended</p></blockquote><p>Zerker? ROFL ... SK FTW!</p></blockquote><p>sks have been too strong for too long, they'll get nerfed soon enough, then zerkers shall be king!</p>

[Gorgamorph]

<p>This is the type of poorly exectured nerf bat beating that starts Facebook petition groups ... seriouslly losin' your grip on that thing, it's not a toy.</p>

[Darkonx]

<p><cite>Zabom wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Darkonx wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Jjay@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Darkonx wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Sparkey@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This fix was rediculously overdone.  Before the fix, only the really poorly geared people got one-shotted.  I am sorry, but if you go into bg with t9 mc, non-bg gear you should be one-shotted, end of story.  I sit next to a wizard playing bg.  Now any scout with t9 mc crap can kill her in about 2-3 sec.  She examined the people that were killing her and a lot were in really poor gear, yet they were resisting all her spells, most which are master spells.  Can't even dent a tank now.  It has basically made bg not playable by mages end of story.  Who wants to get repeatably killed by scouts when they can't even get an ice comet off before death?  Don't start in about the root crap, they get resisted too.  The only thing this fix has accomplished is to make melee rule the field like it already was for the most part.</p></blockquote><p>I have some of the best gear in the game and got routinely one shotted by a double attacked ice comet.</p></blockquote><p>double attack ice comets are not routine.  I was hit by ONE of them last week.</p></blockquote><p>You still think having a 12% chance of one shotting a fully geared tank with 3 healers on him, once every 40s, is fair? lol.</p></blockquote><p>that is an obvious exageration. Most tanks have over 20k hp with 2 healers, wards  will usually add another 5k and reactives will heal him for another 5k as soon as he is hit. Before the nerf a high ice comet  was 12k (maybe 1 in 100 hit that hard average hit about 8k) if it double attacked maybe 20k. The tank would be in the red but 2 healers doing their job would have no problem getting him to full green before ice comet is up again. any tank that was getting 1 shotted with 3 healers on him either needs to wake up his healers or needs to put on his gear.</p></blockquote><p>I went against a wizard from my own guild, and got hit by 16k/16k DA IC, while wearing BG armor for toughness.</p>