Battlegrounds are you for real?

[Aleste]

<p>I usualy dont post to forums, but come on battlegrounds are broken. Between the permadeaths the class imbalances and the matchmaker i dont know why I continue to play it. Wait yes I do the gear is "easy" to obtain. Imo this is a useless addition to the game broken pvp in a box. I'm starting to believe the Devs don't even care for the Bg's since they have not implimented fixes. Why leave players to suffer through this garbage. Mages shouldnt kill full groups pounding on them. Glide/jumpboots should be disabled in bg (if one exploite spot isnt used another is quick to replace it. Sometimes its fun i guess when the teams are even in gears (you know each team has a healer rather than no healer vrs 3), but usualy its just que up and wait for it to end.</p>

[Shankapotomus]

<p>Welcome to PvP.</p><p>Que'ing up and waiting for the end may also be a problem I believe</p>

[Aleste]

<p>Ive been playing on a pvp server since it launched... thats not an excuse, bg is nothing like pvp. It may have killed pvp but its not pvp. Its a box of broken parts tossed at the customers to test. Well we tested it and submitted feedback and ummm weeks later no changes. So welcome to pvp isnt what im looking to hear. Pvp differs since there is no random matchmaker.  I know what its like to be camped leveling i have tough skin since i allways soloed. enough is enough tho when devs admit there is a problem but dont fix it in a timley manner. We do pay to play the game right?</p><p>P.s Um queing up and waiting for the end may be the problem but what do you do when ther is no chance of winning? I wouldnt mind if it was skill based but i mean geesh its more the matchmaker than skill. ever went against 4 healers a wizzy and a sk.. while you had no healer?</p>

[mykei]

<p>eq2 BG is not much different than WAR's, the xp is about the same as if you did a quest for 15 minutes and the gear is about the same as shard gear, you still need to work for it. some days you get groups with healers and tanks and others you dont.</p><p>i would suggest that we be able to pick a side (good/evil) so we dont have to group with [Removed for Content] off players that I just one-shot 10 times the last round!</p>

[Aleste]

<p>To me class balance is more the issue. Seriously sorcs and crusaders are op someone please deny it (someone whos not a sorc or crusader). I remeber when people said sorcs were [Removed for Content] and died to easy in pvp.. but i knew a ton of well played sorcs who ate face. Now they live way to long to nuke for what they do and debuffed sks can tank a full group and kill them.</p><p>Where are you getting your shard gear?...</p>

[mykei]

<p>i play a mage, it's fun to one-shot every few minutes, but i also get one-shot often too. i don't see the casters changing the game much at this point, the biggest problem is getting a group with enough good healers and tanks.</p><p>a one time side choice would be nice also as i stated (good or evil, A or B, whatever).</p>

[Aleste]

<p><cite>mykei wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>i play a mage, it's fun to one-shot every few minutes, but i also get one-shot often too. i don't see the casters changing the game much at this point, the biggest problem is getting a group with enough good healers and tanks.</p><p>a one time side choice would be nice also as i stated (good or evil, A or B, whatever).</p></blockquote><p>If your getting one shotted its by other mages. Kind of a moot point really. Its been shown in other posts there are mages walking around with more mit than tanks.. comprable gear but the mage has more mit and you see nothing wrong with that? i mean you can ice comet people for 15k have a bunch of cc and the mit of a tank. Rift omg dont even get me started Ive seen it decimate groups while a scout was unloading on the lock. thats just not right.</p>

[Banditman]

<p>I'll be sure to let the Rangers and Assassins know they are now Mages.  They'll be pleased, I'm sure.</p>

[mykei]

<p>more power too them, better gear more wins! IF things are inbalanced than BG will end up like a lot of the other games and have all players playing one OP class, at which point BG fails and the game is over. one or two OP toons can be a pain if you end up on the other team, but if they are on your team do you have a problem with it?</p><p>so far BG is a nice addition to EQ2 IMHO.</p><p> p.s. i'm sure the 100 arrows sticking out of my butt didnt come from a mage.</p>

[Kota]

<p><cite>Aleste wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p> Pvp differs since there is no random matchmaker.  I know what its like to be camped leveling i have tough skin since i allways soloed.</p><p>P.s Um queing up and waiting for the end may be the problem but what do you do when ther is no chance of winning? I wouldnt mind if it was skill based but i mean geesh its more the matchmaker than skill. ever went against 4 healers a wizzy and a sk.. while you had no healer?</p></blockquote><p>not sure i understand your point.  you're used to getting ganked while you're out doing quests or something, but getting ganked in a bg when (most of the time) it's an even number upsets you ?  if you don't like the pug's you get, MAKE YOUR OWN GROUP.  ppl should stop blaming bg's for the decline of open world pvp too.  it's been declining since shortly after ppl capped the lvl back in kos.  the expansion that opened the pvp servers.  just go back in the pvp forums and see for yourself.  there is always a spike in pvp when an expansion launches, because ppl are out and about, exploring, exping, questing, moving to and from instances.  guild rally banners are more to blame for the decline in open world pvp than bg's tbh.  as far as class balance, yes it could be better, but it will never be perfect.  not with 24 unique classes.</p>

[Armironhead]

<p><cite>Shankapotomus@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Welcome to PvP.</p><p>Que'ing up and waiting for the end may also be a problem I believe</p></blockquote><p>Uh, "welcome to pvp" only works as a fourm reply when the subject matter you are discussing actually involves pvp, which would of course exclude the bgs.</p>

[Aleste]

<p>If rangers and sins are one shotting i have not seen it. (no i dont play either) but then again a sin has to get to you to kill you. rangers kill quick also in a few bursts but ive seen mages shrug it off. Ive seen mages go head to head with swashies and brigs and walk away unharmed... i mean a mage in pvp is suppose to keep people away to kill them thats why they are given the cc they have. Scouts are suppose to keep people locked down hence the cc they have so in a head to head the mage should be on the short end but they come away winners more often then losers.</p>

[Aleste]

<p><cite>Armironhead@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Shankapotomus@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Welcome to PvP.</p><p>Que'ing up and waiting for the end may also be a problem I believe</p></blockquote><p>Uh, "welcome to pvp" only works as a fourm reply when the subject matter you are discussing actually involves pvp, which would of course exclude the bgs.</p></blockquote><p>Thanks, I'm glad someone else sees this is not pvp. Yes players are vrs players but its not pvp.</p>

[mykei]

<p>SOE opened up this can of worms by adding BG, now everyone is liking it and seeing that pve balanced classes dont cut it in BG. give it time, i hope it doesnt fail before they tune things.</p>

[Aleste]

<p>I dont mind a handicap I played a dirge on a pvp server running solo during kos... hard times but fun. I think once people get what they want from bgs wit will fail hard. Having a few I win (and theres nothing you can do about it) classes running around pounding you into dust (for 15 mins) leaves a bad taste in a palyers mouth. Also what it did to the pvp servers is just crule your kind of forced to bg on the pvp servers since theres little pvp left. You can run around for an hour and only find one person questing usualy a low level.</p><p>Ps. Im not complaining cause its hard or im a noob flame if you will. Pvp was more balanced in the old days its broken to all sin right now. There was a time ht, ss and decap could kill heck a fusion could too but.. you could avoid it or counter it and kill said person. Now you cant do much to stop mages and sk's its not right.</p>

[Shorcon]

<p><cite>Aleste wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I usualy dont post to forums, but come on battlegrounds are broken. Between the permadeaths the class imbalances and the matchmaker i dont know why I continue to play it. Wait yes I do the gear is "easy" to obtain. Imo this is a useless addition to the game broken pvp in a box. I'm starting to believe the Devs don't even care for the Bg's since they have not implimented fixes. Why leave players to suffer through this garbage. Mages shouldnt kill full groups pounding on them. Glide/jumpboots should be disabled in bg (if one exploite spot isnt used another is quick to replace it. Sometimes its fun i guess when the teams are even in gears (you know each team has a healer rather than no healer vrs 3), but usualy its just que up and wait for it to end.</p></blockquote><p>The first thing you have to figure out is that this isnt a solo battleground design. It's team dependant. You have to fill the part of your class. They have wizards? You have wizards also. Why not make that wizard survive longer and get more kills for you team buy supporting his kills. You get kills just for being close to him. I play my swashy as a wizzy support and am top 2 in most ganak/smug matches I play. I hold em the wizzy hits em. Get me and that wizzy a tank heal tandem and we are unstoppable unless we go up against a good illy who knows how to play. You are just starting out in bg's? Give it time. Look over them never used in pve spells you have and also right click examine and checkbox the pvp box so you know what it does in battlegrounds. Dont assume it will do the same thing in bg's. Your problem is in numbers. Stop trying to solo wizzy's. Stop soloing in bg's all together because its bad habit. Start communicating in bg's. Come up with a good plan to isolate and destroy them mages that dominate. You have any fear stun stiffles? Use em. Keep the mage interupted and have you wiz/lock/conj/sin own him while you make sure he dont cast. Reaction time is a plus. Make sure your teamates are reacting to the call to kill a good mage quik. The more peeps hittin him the better your chances. Oh and a nag/vox buddy told me to dispell FTW on everyone if you have it.</p><p>Dont give up on bg's yet. Adapt and overcome. Oh and if your in a bg mobbed with a tank on your team and you die first you need to get on that tank for not taunting. If the tank dies first get a healer to heal him. It's rare that a wiz/lock oneshots a good tank with a good healer on him and taunts can make or break a match.</p>

[Shankapotomus]

<p><cite>Armironhead@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Shankapotomus@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Welcome to PvP.</p><p>Que'ing up and waiting for the end may also be a problem I believe</p></blockquote><p>Uh, "welcome to pvp" only works as a fourm reply when the subject matter you are discussing actually involves pvp, which would of course exclude the bgs.</p></blockquote><p>So BG works off the PvE system? Thats why mages hit so hard!</p>

[Armironhead]

<p><cite>Shankapotomus@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Armironhead@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Shankapotomus@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Welcome to PvP.</p><p>Que'ing up and waiting for the end may also be a problem I believe</p></blockquote><p>Uh, "welcome to pvp" only works as a fourm reply when the subject matter you are discussing actually involves pvp, which would of course exclude the bgs.</p></blockquote><p>So BG works off the PvE system? Thats why mages hit so hard!</p></blockquote><p>when you think of pvp in an mmo, imo most folk think of folk killing each other.  In the bgs pvp is really besides the point; they are minigames where no pvp is necessary, or often even desierable.  moreover when you get down to the actual fighting, its been reduced to an idiots version of whack a mole.  So yea there is no "real" pvp in the bgs.</p>

[Crismorn]

<p><cite>Armironhead@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Shankapotomus@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Armironhead@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Shankapotomus@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Welcome to PvP.</p><p>Que'ing up and waiting for the end may also be a problem I believe</p></blockquote><p>Uh, "welcome to pvp" only works as a fourm reply when the subject matter you are discussing actually involves pvp, which would of course exclude the bgs.</p></blockquote><p>So BG works off the PvE system? Thats why mages hit so hard!</p></blockquote><p>when you think of pvp in an mmo, imo most folk think of folk killing each other.  In the bgs pvp is really besides the point; they are minigames where no pvp is necessary, or often even desierable.  moreover when you get down to the actual fighting, its been reduced to an idiots version of whack a mole.  So yea there is no "real" pvp in the bgs.</p></blockquote><p>PvP implies risk.</p><p>Eq2 does not have any pvp</p>

[Aleste]

<p><cite>Shorcon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Aleste wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I usualy dont post to forums, but come on battlegrounds are broken. Between the permadeaths the class imbalances and the matchmaker i dont know why I continue to play it. Wait yes I do the gear is "easy" to obtain. Imo this is a useless addition to the game broken pvp in a box. I'm starting to believe the Devs don't even care for the Bg's since they have not implimented fixes. Why leave players to suffer through this garbage. Mages shouldnt kill full groups pounding on them. Glide/jumpboots should be disabled in bg (if one exploite spot isnt used another is quick to replace it. Sometimes its fun i guess when the teams are even in gears (you know each team has a healer rather than no healer vrs 3), but usualy its just que up and wait for it to end.</p></blockquote><p>The first thing you have to figure out is that this isnt a solo battleground design. It's team dependant. You have to fill the part of your class. They have wizards? You have wizards also. Why not make that wizard survive longer and get more kills for you team buy supporting his kills. You get kills just for being close to him. I play my swashy as a wizzy support and am top 2 in most ganak/smug matches I play. I hold em the wizzy hits em. Get me and that wizzy a tank heal tandem and we are unstoppable unless we go up against a good illy who knows how to play. You are just starting out in bg's? Give it time. Look over them never used in pve spells you have and also right click examine and checkbox the pvp box so you know what it does in battlegrounds. Dont assume it will do the same thing in bg's. Your problem is in numbers. Stop trying to solo wizzy's. Stop soloing in bg's all together because its bad habit. Start communicating in bg's. Come up with a good plan to isolate and destroy them mages that dominate. You have any fear stun stiffles? Use em. Keep the mage interupted and have you wiz/lock/conj/sin own him while you make sure he dont cast. Reaction time is a plus. Make sure your teamates are reacting to the call to kill a good mage quik. The more peeps hittin him the better your chances. Oh and a nag/vox buddy told me to dispell FTW on everyone if you have it.</p><p>Dont give up on bg's yet. Adapt and overcome. Oh and if your in a bg mobbed with a tank on your team and you die first you need to get on that tank for not taunting. If the tank dies first get a healer to heal him. It's rare that a wiz/lock oneshots a good tank with a good healer on him and taunts can make or break a match.</p></blockquote><p>Um well... As I said I play on a pvp server have for quite a few years now so I know what my spells do in bgs. Since they do the same in bg as they do in pvp. As for locking down a wizzy on your swash so another wiz can kill them listen to your slef please. Only people you should be locking down are tanks and healers you should be blowing through a wiz solo if you lock them down. PVP has allways been a checks and balance system sorcs have allways been strong AT RANGE if you get close they are supose to die (Glass cannon). Not trying to be rude but please no pvp pep talks Ive been doing it for some time now and know its broken. I mean your saying if your swash gets the jump on a wiz or lock solo in bgs your supose to die? The way Ive played a scout in group pvp or bg is you lay back and get to the target thats doing the most damage or heals disable them and kill them... scouting the targets and using your t1/t2 dps to kill them (thats a scouts job in pvp). So why are cloth weares out living chain and dishing out raw pain to full groups?</p><p>I do dispell... doesnt matter most times.</p><p>P.s Everyone does have a role in pvp I understand that what im saying is the roles are out of wack atm.</p><p>Tanks role keep everyone alive via tanuts (dish out some dps) Guards do their role well... zerkes have allways been able to dish out hurt in pvp but sk's and pallys are insane now they do crazy dps while locking targets.</p><p>Mages role was disable/kill coecers and illy can do their job well. Necros and conj are alright except the occasional one shot from a conj and deaggros not working on their pets from half a zone away (pets are supose to leash).</p><p>Healers well their job is to heal (which they do more than well).</p><p>Scouts.. well their job is to get in there and kill the people trying to kill their tank/healers so other socuts and mages hence the stealth and back attacks (stealth sucks in bgs).</p><p>It's simple if you look at it but so flawed right now its a joke. The combo of aa lines and stat consolidation messed everything up.</p><p>I find it funny noone has commented on mages having more mit than tanks.</p>

[Aleste]

<p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Armironhead@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Shankapotomus@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Armironhead@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Shankapotomus@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Welcome to PvP.</p><p>Que'ing up and waiting for the end may also be a problem I believe</p></blockquote><p>Uh, "welcome to pvp" only works as a fourm reply when the subject matter you are discussing actually involves pvp, which would of course exclude the bgs.</p></blockquote><p>So BG works off the PvE system? Thats why mages hit so hard!</p></blockquote><p>when you think of pvp in an mmo, imo most folk think of folk killing each other.  In the bgs pvp is really besides the point; they are minigames where no pvp is necessary, or often even desierable.  moreover when you get down to the actual fighting, its been reduced to an idiots version of whack a mole.  So yea there is no "real" pvp in the bgs.</p></blockquote><p>PvP implies risk.</p><p>Eq2 does not have any pvp</p></blockquote><p>PVP had risk loss of coin/infamy and required you run half way across a zone at death which was a huge waste of your time. (most times to be ganked again). Stop bashing us who play on a pvp server just cause your jaded view of what pvp is. Raids require risk to but those were trivialized so is it fair to say theres no raiding in Eq2? if you die you get up and go again, heck if you keep diying pack a repair kit or two and keep at it. Not like you have corpse runs or lose your gear. Take that train of thought of PVP requires risk and apply it game wide... then eq2 has nothing to offer anyone. None of the game is a risk of anything more than time. It's not our fault fame system was taken away and pvp was made more riskless as the years passed (due to new means of travel and alternate quest zones)</p>

[mykei]

<p>most of the things SOE have added these past 5 years have been warts to the system. nothing original but instead something to say they have it. BG is no exception. if they spend as much time tuning BG as they did with LoN it would be the best thing they have done for the players in a long time. BG doesnt make them much extra money (maybe some with people changing their race to something smaller), but nothing like the cash people spend on lon. BG needs something more, maybe ServervServer or something like RvR, but at this point the only reason people do BG is we run out of quests at 85 and they are fun from time-to-time.</p>

[Cerulien]

<p><cite>Shorcon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The first thing you have to figure out is that this isnt a solo battleground design. It's team dependant. You have to fill the part of your class. They have wizards? You have wizards also. Why not make that wizard survive longer and get more kills for you team buy supporting his kills. You get kills just for being close to him. I play my swashy as a wizzy support and am top 2 in most ganak/smug matches I play. I hold em the wizzy hits em. Get me and that wizzy a tank heal tandem and we are unstoppable unless we go up against a good illy who knows how to play. You are just starting out in bg's? Give it time. Look over them never used in pve spells you have and also right click examine and checkbox the pvp box so you know what it does in battlegrounds. Dont assume it will do the same thing in bg's. Your problem is in numbers. Stop trying to solo wizzy's. Stop soloing in bg's all together because its bad habit. Start communicating in bg's. Come up with a good plan to isolate and destroy them mages that dominate. You have any fear stun stiffles? Use em. Keep the mage interupted and have you wiz/lock/conj/sin own him while you make sure he dont cast. Reaction time is a plus. Make sure your teamates are reacting to the call to kill a good mage quik. The more peeps hittin him the better your chances. Oh and a nag/vox buddy told me to dispell FTW on everyone if you have it.</p><p>Dont give up on bg's yet. Adapt and overcome. Oh and if your in a bg mobbed with a tank on your team and you die first you need to get on that tank for not taunting. If the tank dies first get a healer to heal him. It's rare that a wiz/lock oneshots a good tank with a good healer on him and taunts can make or break a match.</p></blockquote><p>+1   Probably the best / most helpful post I've seen on this whiny board.</p>

[Neskonlith]

<p><img src="http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb310/Bitter_Coffee/screenies/howsthatworkingforyou.jpg" /></p><p><em><span style="font-size: xx-small;">...how's all that whining on the forums while doing nothing constructive like helping to Test for new class balance issues working out for ya??</span></em></p><p><span ><strong><span style="color: #92bab9; font-size: large;"><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=135&topic_id=474221" target="_blank">Spell Resist Changes currently being tested</a></span></strong></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Last Wednesday we spent around 8 hours trying to set up tests with a few other players + Timetravelling, and we managed to get some parsing done after forum taunting, Live chat-channel spamming and Broadcasts - but it appears that the vast majority of players couldn't be bothered to do much more than to complain and troll on the forums.</span></p><p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" /></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Prediction: SOE will soon patch in the spell resist fixes, and the negative /emo players too lazy to do anything but troll and cry on the forums will stalk and blast SOE all over any active threads for new bugs: "<em>broken game</em>",<em> "should have been Tested", blah blah blah.</em></span></p><p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Crismorn]

<p><cite>Aleste wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Armironhead@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Shankapotomus@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Armironhead@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Shankapotomus@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Welcome to PvP.</p><p>Que'ing up and waiting for the end may also be a problem I believe</p></blockquote><p>Uh, "welcome to pvp" only works as a fourm reply when the subject matter you are discussing actually involves pvp, which would of course exclude the bgs.</p></blockquote><p>So BG works off the PvE system? Thats why mages hit so hard!</p></blockquote><p>when you think of pvp in an mmo, imo most folk think of folk killing each other.  In the bgs pvp is really besides the point; they are minigames where no pvp is necessary, or often even desierable.  moreover when you get down to the actual fighting, its been reduced to an idiots version of whack a mole.  So yea there is no "real" pvp in the bgs.</p></blockquote><p>PvP implies risk.</p><p>Eq2 does not have any pvp</p></blockquote><p>PVP had risk loss of coin/infamy and required you run half way across a zone at death which was a huge waste of your time. (most times to be ganked again). Stop bashing us who play on a pvp server just cause your jaded view of what pvp is. Raids require risk to but those were trivialized so is it fair to say theres no raiding in Eq2? if you die you get up and go again, heck if you keep diying pack a repair kit or two and keep at it. Not like you have corpse runs or lose your gear. Take that train of thought of PVP requires risk and apply it game wide... then eq2 has nothing to offer anyone. None of the game is a risk of anything more than time. It's not our fault fame system was taken away and pvp was made more riskless as the years passed (due to new means of travel and alternate quest zones)</p></blockquote><p>You are right, if you forget to use the banker then you can lose coin.</p><p>Raiding requires 24+ people and hours upon hours.</p><p>eq2 pvp requires 1 person and as much time as you want to invest</p>

[Harbringer Doom]

<p>You've somehow been convinced that the player base should be forced to test game mechanics that have been horrifically broken for almost two months... and if they still can't get it right.... its the player bases fault...</p><p>What flavor was the Kool Aid?</p>

[Kota]

<p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Armironhead@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Shankapotomus@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Armironhead@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Shankapotomus@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Welcome to PvP.</p><p>Que'ing up and waiting for the end may also be a problem I believe</p></blockquote><p>Uh, "welcome to pvp" only works as a fourm reply when the subject matter you are discussing actually involves pvp, which would of course exclude the bgs.</p></blockquote><p>So BG works off the PvE system? Thats why mages hit so hard!</p></blockquote><p>when you think of pvp in an mmo, imo most folk think of folk killing each other.  In the bgs pvp is really besides the point; they are minigames where no pvp is necessary, or often even desierable.  moreover when you get down to the actual fighting, its been reduced to an idiots version of whack a mole.  So yea there is no "real" pvp in the bgs.</p></blockquote><p>PvP implies risk.</p><p>Eq2 does not have any pvp</p></blockquote><p>pvp doesn't imply anything.  pvp = player versus player.  it's not called pvpwir (player versus player with implied risk).  besides, it's a video game.  the only risk in any situation is time.  loss of items would be a horrible idea too.  /gu hey guys, i just got my myth !  only took me 2 weeks of chasing raids !  **!~GANK~!** /gu oh man, i lost my myth.  scrue this game i'm getting a ps3.  was bad enough with fame system v1.0.  all the ppl avoiding pvp to save titles.</p>

[Crismorn]

<p><cite>Tenka@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Armironhead@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Shankapotomus@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Armironhead@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Shankapotomus@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Welcome to PvP.</p><p>Que'ing up and waiting for the end may also be a problem I believe</p></blockquote><p>Uh, "welcome to pvp" only works as a fourm reply when the subject matter you are discussing actually involves pvp, which would of course exclude the bgs.</p></blockquote><p>So BG works off the PvE system? Thats why mages hit so hard!</p></blockquote><p>when you think of pvp in an mmo, imo most folk think of folk killing each other.  In the bgs pvp is really besides the point; they are minigames where no pvp is necessary, or often even desierable.  moreover when you get down to the actual fighting, its been reduced to an idiots version of whack a mole.  So yea there is no "real" pvp in the bgs.</p></blockquote><p>PvP implies risk.</p><p>Eq2 does not have any pvp</p></blockquote><p>pvp doesn't imply anything.  pvp = player versus player.  it's not called pvpwir (player versus player with implied risk).  besides, it's a video game.  the only risk in any situation is time.  loss of items would be a horrible idea too.  /gu hey guys, i just got my myth !  only took me 2 weeks of chasing raids !  **!~GANK~!** /gu oh man, i lost my myth.  scrue this game i'm getting a ps3.  was bad enough with fame system v1.0.  all the ppl avoiding pvp to save titles.</p></blockquote><p>You do not have to lose items for their to be loss in pvp.</p>

[Kota]

what do you propose you lose ? not that it matters. like i said, fame loss was enough to make ppl avoid pvp. no, not all ppl, but enough ppl that soe saw the problem and changed the fame system.

[Taldier]

<p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Tenka@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>PvP implies risk.</p><p>Eq2 does not have any pvp</p></blockquote><p>pvp doesn't imply anything.  pvp = player versus player.  it's not called pvpwir (player versus player with implied risk).  besides, it's a video game.  the only risk in any situation is time.  loss of items would be a horrible idea too.  /gu hey guys, i just got my myth !  only took me 2 weeks of chasing raids !  **!~GANK~!** /gu oh man, i lost my myth.  scrue this game i'm getting a ps3.  was bad enough with fame system v1.0.  all the ppl avoiding pvp to save titles.</p></blockquote><p>You do not have to lose items for their to be loss in pvp.</p></blockquote><p>You do not need automated system mandated loss for there to be loss in pvp.</p>

[Kota]

ok i will re-state my question: what do you propose we lose in pvp ?

[Neskonlith]

<p><cite>Horknut@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You've somehow been convinced that the player base should be forced to test game mechanics that have been horrifically broken for almost two months... and if they still can't get it right.... its the player bases fault...</p><p>What flavor was the Kool Aid?</p></blockquote><p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">With spell resist changes patched in there will be new class pvp dynamics introduced, and long-term pvp players would be the obvious go-to experts who can best find class balance flaws since we have spent years developing our characters in pvp and fighting against various other classes.</span></p><p><img src="http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb310/Bitter_Coffee/screenies/howsthatworkingforyou2.jpg" /></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">But let's not let simple logic about the obvious interfere with your negativity! </span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"> </span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">"Emo Anguish" is the flavour of the Kool Aid, produced from the saddest tears of the laziest forum trolls.</span></p><p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Harbringer Doom]

<p>Wow.  SOE sure found the ideal customer in you.</p><p>Can you make a neat photoshop demonstrating how you toe the party line sporting a brown nose?  You should probably use the term "pwn" or "HAXXOR" to compliment your stale and clichéd use of "whine", "emo", "tears" and "troll".</p><p>Whether or not you choose to comprehend it, my point on this matter is somewhat clear:  You're directing your (teen?) angst towards lack of resist testing in the wrong direction.  No matter how skilled PvP players would be at "finding class balance flaws", paying customers should not be forced to spend their time testing the game in order to move towards implementation of the correction of game breaking coding errors.</p><p>Put simpler, it baffles me that you seem to think it makes sense for people to pay SOE money for the privilege of helping work out the flaws in the game.  "Here's $15, please let me come work out the resist issues on test for you.  I'll take copious notes for hours and email them to you."</p><p>You don't see a better, quicker (notice I didn't say "cheaper" or "cost efficient") way for (what I can only assume is) a multimillion dollar company to operate?</p>

[mykei]

<p>Neskonlith can you provide links to your statements? i cant seem to find your info anyplace. it clearly points to you as being the troll here. the OP had some valid points, but now the thread has been side-tracked.</p><p>the OPs post title is Battlegrounds, not pvp vs BG. my guess is most of you have only played EQ and xbox, there are many BG mmos out now that can be compared to what soe has added. even WoW had problems with their BG and as i recall redid it a few times. but WAR, WoW, ... all have been trying to keep BGs intereting for years. now SOE has opened this mess up in EQ2, introduced a new set of issues (double spell meanings, alt armor sets, xp gain issues...).</p><p>one would think pvp guilds would have some good thoughts on BG issues, but then again, they maybe only young kids ganking each other for the fun of it. at this point anyone's input to testing is valuable.</p>

[Kota]

i'm gonna go with nekon on this one. his cute lil screenshot shows the dev that wanted to help us out on this. not many ppl in that shot either. ppl who could have been testing it out and giving the gm on the spot feedback. you may not like it, but an mmo is all about testing. that's why they have beta at every expansion. that's why there are game updates. i get just as peeved as the next guy when i feel like something is OP or not balanced, but if you think about it, balance is a tough thing to achieve. it's not really even balance they need to achieve. if something is fair, but ppl don't see it as fair, there will be tears. so, there are 24 points of focus for balance, perceived balance, and tear mitigation to consider. it is and always will be an ongoing in-process test with class adjustments and game mechanic tweaks.

[Crismorn]

<p><cite>Tenka@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>what do you propose you lose ? not that it matters. like i said, fame loss was enough to make ppl avoid pvp. no, not all ppl, but enough ppl that soe saw the problem and changed the fame system.</blockquote><p>yeah because having everyone zerg each other in a giant cluster of fail because they have nothing to lose is a much better system.</p><p>Point system, you gain pt's for killing people and you lose them for dying, points also allow you to buy gear.</p><p>Token system, you gain tokens for killing people and you lose them when you die.</p><p>Those took me a good 10 seconds to think of.</p>

[Crismorn]

<p><cite>Tenka@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>ok i will re-state my question: what do you propose we lose in pvp ?</blockquote><p>Anything that actually makes you think of what you could lose when you enter a pvp engagement.</p><p>If you enter a pvp engagement without having to consider losing anything then that is a failure of a pvp system since it is essentially meaningless.</p><p>I've said it before, but try this.</p><p>Go to the banker and put your coin in there, then go die to 50 different people and see what you lost.</p><p>Thats why eq2 pvp is a joke</p>

[Neskonlith]

<p><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><img src="http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb310/Bitter_Coffee/screenies/argue.jpg" /></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">I see what message it is that you are conveying when reading past the attempts to "pwn" me with your HAXXOR'd zingers: </span></p><p><em>No paying customer should ever contribute any useful, specific /feedback at all to help improve the overall gameplay experience, except to widely belabour the obvious current issues with stale and clichéd negativity!  </em></p><p><em>SOE should instead hire some newb testers who haven't spent years pvp'ing to go spend a few minutes to Test the new class balance for us!</em></p><p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" /></p><p><img src="http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb310/Bitter_Coffee/screenies/DLeretheMagnificent.jpg" /></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><em>D'Lere the Magnificent's</em> predictions for the likely sequence of events:</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong>Step 1</strong>: moan for 2 months about a "horrifically broken game".</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong>Step 2</strong>: demand SOE patch in a fix without any benefit of expert pvp player /feedback, because "<em>we are not paid to help</em>".</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong>Step 3</strong>: throw massive temper tantrum on forums, week after week, when obscure issues pop up with new fix</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong>Step 4</strong>: milk it for more forum negativity until Halas is released in May</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong>Step 5</strong>: complain about bugs found in Halas for another 2 months, or until the next GU is released</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong>Step 6</strong>: profit!</span></p><p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Kota]

<p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Tenka@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>what do you propose you lose ? not that it matters. like i said, fame loss was enough to make ppl avoid pvp. no, not all ppl, but enough ppl that soe saw the problem and changed the fame system.</blockquote><p>yeah because having everyone zerg each other in a giant cluster of fail because they have nothing to lose is a much better system.</p><p>Point system, you gain pt's for killing people and you lose them for dying, points also allow you to buy gear.</p><p>Token system, you gain tokens for killing people and you lose them when you die.</p><p>Those took me a good 10 seconds to think of.</p></blockquote><p>awesome idea.  except, you won't be able to have premade groups in BG's.  there is already a river of tears about them.  pre made group zones into bg, pushes you down, takes all of your points/tokens, QQ ensues.  so now you have pugs.  basically the giant cluster of fail you just mentioned.  except now, ppl are losing points or whatever.  now, statistically speaking, you're gonna win about 50% of your pugs.  i don't care how good you think you are, or how good you actually are, if you pug enough bg's your win % will settle around 50%.  ie you may be a superstar but your pug is just bad.  or, your pug is good, but the other pug is awesome.  you could roll one of the more advantageous pvp classes now to have a bigger impact on the outcome, but gee, all these other ppl already have some gear, and they are just gonna push you down and take your points.  sure is hard to get into bg's now idn't it.  kinda missing that consolation token now a bit maybe.  took you 10 seconds to come up with your plan, but you should take another 10 to think of the repurcussions.  i think your idea would kill bg's with a quickness.</p>

[Neskonlith]

<p><cite>mykei wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff00ff;">Neskonlith can you provide links to your statements?</span></p></blockquote><p><cite>timetravelling wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Feedback and such is welcome, and we look forward to y'alls help with parses and real-combat situational effectiveness changes once we have these changes on Test-Copy!</p></blockquote><p><span style="background-color: #f3f5ff; color: #444444;"><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=474221">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=474221</a></span></p><p><span style="background-color: #f3f5ff; color: #444444;"><p><cite>timetravelling wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff00ff; font-size: small;">This will affect both BGs and Open PvP equally. PvP combat in general uses the same rules whether it's Open or a battleground.</span></p></blockquote></span></p><p><span style="background-color: #f3f5ff; color: #444444;"><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=105&topic_id=474221">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=474221</a></span></p><p><cite>timetravelling wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm on test-copy now if anyone would like to log on and parse against me.</p><p>Also spawned a merchant selling tokenless BG gear</p></blockquote><p><span style="background-color: #f3f5ff; color: #444444;"><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=120&topic_id=474221">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=474221</a></span></p><p><cite>timetravelling wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>i'm on test-copy right now if y'all would like to pop over and parse with the resist changes.</p></blockquote><p><span style="background-color: #f3f5ff; color: #444444;"><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=475959">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=475959</a></span></p>

[Crismorn]

<p><cite>Tenka@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Tenka@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>what do you propose you lose ? not that it matters. like i said, fame loss was enough to make ppl avoid pvp. no, not all ppl, but enough ppl that soe saw the problem and changed the fame system.</blockquote><p>yeah because having everyone zerg each other in a giant cluster of fail because they have nothing to lose is a much better system.</p><p>Point system, you gain pt's for killing people and you lose them for dying, points also allow you to buy gear.</p><p>Token system, you gain tokens for killing people and you lose them when you die.</p><p>Those took me a good 10 seconds to think of.</p></blockquote><p>awesome idea.  except, you won't be able to have premade groups in BG's.  there is already a river of tears about them.  pre made group zones into bg, pushes you down, takes all of your points/tokens, QQ ensues.  so now you have pugs.  basically the giant cluster of fail you just mentioned.  except now, ppl are losing points or whatever.  now, statistically speaking, you're gonna win about 50% of your pugs.  i don't care how good you think you are, or how good you actually are, if you pug enough bg's your win % will settle around 50%.  ie you may be a superstar but your pug is just bad.  or, your pug is good, but the other pug is awesome.  you could roll one of the more advantageous pvp classes now to have a bigger impact on the outcome, but gee, all these other ppl already have some gear, and they are just gonna push you down and take your points.  sure is hard to get into bg's now idn't it.  kinda missing that consolation token now a bit maybe.  took you 10 seconds to come up with your plan, but you should take another 10 to think of the repurcussions.  i think your idea would kill bg's with a quickness.</p></blockquote><p>I've been in roughly 20 pre-mades and aprox. 500 bg matches total.</p><p>I've won ~70% of my matches</p><p>How to figure out your own personal win %</p><p>Add up all the tokens you have made so far, include the tokens from all of your gear.</p><p>Go to the page on acheivements that says how many you have won. "lets say 500 wins" just for a random #</p><p>Multiply wins "500" x 3 = 1500</p><p>Lets say you have earned a total of 1800 tokens all together</p><p>2000-1800 = 200</p><p>You have lost 200 bg's and won 500.</p>

[Kota]

<p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Tenka@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>ok i will re-state my question: what do you propose we lose in pvp ?</blockquote><p>Anything that actually makes you think of what you could lose when you enter a pvp engagement.</p><p>If you enter a pvp engagement without having to consider losing anything then that is a failure of a pvp system since it is essentially meaningless.</p><p>I've said it before, but try this.</p><p>Go to the banker and put your coin in there, then go die to 50 different people and see what you lost.</p><p>Thats why eq2 pvp is a joke</p></blockquote><p>ok first of all, i keep a stack of [large meaty bone]s on me at all times, for the sole purpose of pvp.  no, this doesn't pertain to bg's.  </p><p>if ppl actually lost something in pvp, it would cause a decline in pvp.  do you play on nagafen ?  if so, were you playing on nagafen when a hunter could take fame from a general ?  man, that was speed evacing. </p><p>if you can't simply compete for the satisfaction or a win, then it is my opinion that your competitive nature is askew.  lots of ppl play games like halo and cod (yes i know this isn't a fps or even a console game, but it's the same principle.  you vs the other person/ppl) and they do it for fun.  i don't know why it should be any different here.  i don't understand why it's necessary to lose something when you already lost.  i mean it's a game.  revive and go have fun.</p>

[Shankapotomus]

<p>O.K....</p><p>As stated, PvP stands for    Player Vs Player</p><p>BG is PvP, whether good or bad.</p><p>What I was referring to is the problems we've had to face for so long that have had no real looking into since we were such a minority in this game. Now that PvE has used this system everyone knows the problems.</p>

[Crismorn]

<p><cite>Tenka@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Tenka@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>ok i will re-state my question: what do you propose we lose in pvp ?</blockquote><p>Anything that actually makes you think of what you could lose when you enter a pvp engagement.</p><p>If you enter a pvp engagement without having to consider losing anything then that is a failure of a pvp system since it is essentially meaningless.</p><p>I've said it before, but try this.</p><p>Go to the banker and put your coin in there, then go die to 50 different people and see what you lost.</p><p>Thats why eq2 pvp is a joke</p></blockquote><p>ok first of all, i keep a stack of [large meaty bone]s on me at all times, for the sole purpose of pvp.  no, this doesn't pertain to bg's.  </p><p>if ppl actually lost something in pvp, it would cause a decline in pvp.  do you play on nagafen ?  if so, were you playing on nagafen when a hunter could take fame from a general ?  man, that was speed evacing. </p><p>if you can't simply compete for the satisfaction or a win, then it is my opinion that your competitive nature is askew.  lots of ppl play games like halo and cod (yes i know this isn't a fps or even a console game, but it's the same principle.  you vs the other person/ppl) and they do it for fun.  i don't know why it should be any different here.  i don't understand why it's necessary to lose something when you already lost.  i mean it's a game.  revive and go have fun.</p></blockquote><p>I'm sure it is enough for you and many others, but for the vast majority it really is not, because its essentially meaningless pvp.</p><p>Again, I'm not trying to argue with you or anyone else because I honestly feel sorry for many of the people on Nagafen who have not had meaningful pvp for quite some time.</p><p>You guys got ripped off.</p>

[Taldier]

<p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm sure it is enough for you and many others, but for the vast majority it really is not, because its essentially meaningless pvp.</p><p>Again, I'm not trying to argue with you or anyone else because I honestly feel sorry for many of the people on Nagafen who have not had meaningful pvp for quite some time.</p><p>You guys got ripped off.</p></blockquote><p>You shouldnt need the game to tell you that you lost in order for that to be meaningful.</p><p>You are dead.  Someone else is standing over your corpse.</p><p>EQ2 is a role playing game.  Being defeated in combat means something even if the game doesnt shoot up a giant "you fail" sign and take your stuff.  I dont need a little ticker keeping track of every kill and death to tell me that winning matters to me personally.</p><p>Would I play on a corpse loot ruleset?  Of course.  But its not required for pvp to be meaningful.  And any other penalty is just stupid and essentially the same as no penalty.</p><p>The zerging problems were caused by the prevalance of pvp rewards.  I dont need the game to give me a cookie every time I kill someone, just as I dont need it to take one away when I die.</p><p>Obviously if you hand out free stuff and never take it away a big group of people is going to charge "free stuff" stand.</p><p>(All above uses of the term 'pvp' refer to actual pvp ^^^)</p>

[mykei]

<p>you guys are killing me! this is the battlegrounds section NOT the pvp section. it is starting to become clear that people are trying to make BG into pvp, this maybe part of the problem with these lonewolfs ganking so much now. we are talking about BG, not pvp here, get a clue and move it to the other forum.</p>

[Taldier]

<p><cite>mykei wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>you guys are killing me! this is the battlegrounds section NOT the pvp section. it is starting to become clear that people are trying to make BG into pvp, this maybe part of the problem with these lonewolfs ganking so much now. we are talking about BG, not pvp here, get a clue and move it to the other forum.</p></blockquote><p>If pve'ers make negative comments about open world pvp on the pvp forums we respond to them there.  If they make them in the bg section we respond to them here.  If they make them in the general gameplay section we respond there.</p><p>What was this thread about again anyway?</p><p>Ah yeah, bugs and class imbalances, they patched resists today, they'll get to the bugs when they get to them.</p><p>Now lets get back to the de-rail because its way more interesting and we gotta finish the debate before the thread gets locked.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Aleste]

<p><cite>Morrissee@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Shorcon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The first thing you have to figure out is that this isnt a solo battleground design. It's team dependant. You have to fill the part of your class. They have wizards? You have wizards also. Why not make that wizard survive longer and get more kills for you team buy supporting his kills. You get kills just for being close to him. I play my swashy as a wizzy support and am top 2 in most ganak/smug matches I play. I hold em the wizzy hits em. Get me and that wizzy a tank heal tandem and we are unstoppable unless we go up against a good illy who knows how to play. You are just starting out in bg's? Give it time. Look over them never used in pve spells you have and also right click examine and checkbox the pvp box so you know what it does in battlegrounds. Dont assume it will do the same thing in bg's. Your problem is in numbers. Stop trying to solo wizzy's. Stop soloing in bg's all together because its bad habit. Start communicating in bg's. Come up with a good plan to isolate and destroy them mages that dominate. You have any fear stun stiffles? Use em. Keep the mage interupted and have you wiz/lock/conj/sin own him while you make sure he dont cast. Reaction time is a plus. Make sure your teamates are reacting to the call to kill a good mage quik. The more peeps hittin him the better your chances. Oh and a nag/vox buddy told me to dispell FTW on everyone if you have it.</p><p>Dont give up on bg's yet. Adapt and overcome. Oh and if your in a bg mobbed with a tank on your team and you die first you need to get on that tank for not taunting. If the tank dies first get a healer to heal him. It's rare that a wiz/lock oneshots a good tank with a good healer on him and taunts can make or break a match.</p></blockquote><p>+1   Probably the best / most helpful post I've seen on this whiny board.</p></blockquote><p>Says the pver.. please for the love of all things holy run a toon on a pvp server and see why we ask for fixes in both pvp and bg.</p>

[Aleste]

<p><cite>Neskonlith wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><img src="http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb310/Bitter_Coffee/screenies/howsthatworkingforyou.jpg" /></p><p><em><span style="font-size: xx-small;">...how's all that whining on the forums while doing nothing constructive like helping to Test for new class balance issues working out for ya??</span></em></p><p><span><strong><span style="color: #92bab9; font-size: large;"><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=135&topic_id=474221" target="_blank">Spell Resist Changes currently being tested</a></span></strong></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Last Wednesday we spent around 8 hours trying to set up tests with a few other players + Timetravelling, and we managed to get some parsing done after forum taunting, Live chat-channel spamming and Broadcasts - but it appears that the vast majority of players couldn't be bothered to do much more than to complain and troll on the forums.</span></p><p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" /></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Prediction: SOE will soon patch in the spell resist fixes, and the <strong>negative /emo players too lazy to do anything but troll and cry on the forums</strong> will stalk and blast SOE all over any active threads for new bugs: "<em>broken game</em>",<em> "should have been Tested", blah blah blah.</em></span></p><p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>I pay my monthly fee. I do not pay to "test" if they want me to test they should reduce my monthly fee. Since that will not happen broken products should not be released <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />. Asking devs to fix things they admit are broken is not whining. kthanks!</p><p>P.s take the pot shots else where bud. Ive played a broken game long enough to speak out about it. Since you like the game enough to be a tester go do it. Me on the other hand when i have time to play i don't use it testing. I have a life beyond eq2 so i use my play time for fun. You guys can be funny sometimes... Soe pwns you testing for free.. they would have to put me on payroll.</p>

[Aleste]

<p><cite>mykei wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>you guys are killing me! <strong>this is the battlegrounds section NOT the pvp section</strong>. it is starting to become clear that people are trying to make BG into pvp, this maybe part of the problem with these lonewolfs ganking so much now. we are talking about BG, not pvp here, get a clue and move it to the other forum.</p></blockquote><p>Really? since bg is using pvp ruleset... and killing open pvp well beside that my post was about bg till it got side lined. By bluebies acting like they have a clue.</p><p>I wish you guys did roll on pvp you would of quit years ago..</p>

[ntommyb]

<p><cite>mykei wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>you guys are killing me! this is the battlegrounds section NOT the pvp section. it is starting to become clear that people are trying to make BG into pvp, this maybe part of the problem with these lonewolfs ganking so much now. we are talking about BG, not pvp here, get a clue and move it to the other forum.</p></blockquote><p>Yea BGs are not PvP, In openworld pvp most people know how to fight as a cohesive group. </p>

[Aleste]

<p><cite>ntommyb wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>mykei wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>you guys are killing me! this is the battlegrounds section NOT the pvp section. it is starting to become clear that people are trying to make BG into pvp, this maybe part of the problem with these lonewolfs ganking so much now. we are talking about BG, not pvp here, get a clue and move it to the other forum.</p></blockquote><p>Yea BGs are not PvP, In openworld pvp most people know how to fight as a cohesive group. </p></blockquote><p>People also know how to 1v1 a class if they are out soloing... and there are instancecs in bg where you come across peolpe solo.</p>

[Neskonlith]

<p><cite>mykei wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="font-size: medium;">you guys are killing me</span>! this is the battlegrounds section NOT the pvp section. it is starting to become clear that people are trying to make BG into pvp, this maybe part of the problem with these lonewolfs ganking so much now. <span style="color: #ff00ff;">we are talking about BG, not pvp here, get a clue and move it to the other forum</span>. </p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Killing you is the point of BeeGees!  lol</span></p><p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" /></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">As for why BeeGees and PVP are being interchanged so often in these threads: </span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">BeeGees use the PVP ruleset, so spell resists changed in pvp = spell resists changed in BeeGees...</span></p>

[Aleste]

<p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Aleste wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Armironhead@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Shankapotomus@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Armironhead@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Shankapotomus@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Welcome to PvP.</p><p>Que'ing up and waiting for the end may also be a problem I believe</p></blockquote><p>Uh, "welcome to pvp" only works as a fourm reply when the subject matter you are discussing actually involves pvp, which would of course exclude the bgs.</p></blockquote><p>So BG works off the PvE system? Thats why mages hit so hard!</p></blockquote><p>when you think of pvp in an mmo, imo most folk think of folk killing each other.  In the bgs pvp is really besides the point; they are minigames where no pvp is necessary, or often even desierable.  moreover when you get down to the actual fighting, its been reduced to an idiots version of whack a mole.  So yea there is no "real" pvp in the bgs.</p></blockquote><p>PvP implies risk.</p><p>Eq2 does not have any pvp</p></blockquote><p>PVP had risk loss of coin/infamy and required you run half way across a zone at death which was a huge waste of your time. (most times to be ganked again). Stop bashing us who play on a pvp server just cause your jaded view of what pvp is. Raids require risk to but those were trivialized so is it fair to say theres no raiding in Eq2? if you die you get up and go again, heck if you keep diying pack a repair kit or two and keep at it. Not like you have corpse runs or lose your gear. Take that train of thought of PVP requires risk and apply it game wide... then eq2 has nothing to offer anyone. None of the game is a risk of anything more than time. It's not our fault fame system was taken away and pvp was made more riskless as the years passed (due to new means of travel and alternate quest zones)</p></blockquote><p>You are right, if you forget to use the banker then you can lose coin.</p><p>Raiding requires 24+ people and hours upon hours.</p><p>eq2 pvp requires 1 person and as much time as you want to invest</p></blockquote><p>Back in the day there were not as many "atms" as there are now.. and my hours are the only ones that concern me since its my play time... I could care less how 24 others spend theirs. Either way all of us are losing our time in our said ventures. Hours upon hours? and 24 ppl Next excuse please you still dont lose anything more than time. My point is don't demine the way I chose to play the game I pay for since yours could be written off in the same manner.</p>