Illys in SF and melee

[Heinzrick]

<p>in the past the str line was, different to say the least as a caster.</p><p>Is it still viable today in the world of SF?</p>

[EvilAstroboy]

<p>Its the only viable way to compete with bards and priests for DPS.</p>

[Andu]

<p>Str line has always been the only sensible option for an illy. Meleeing has always nett a reasonable amount of damage, it just takes effort.</p><p>Nothing has changed, other than its even more viable now.</p>

[Ebarel]

<p>except for 99% of the named fights where you really need the dps. You die in the AEs or lose more dps jousting.</p>

[Celestian_]

<p><cite>EvilAstroboy wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Its the only viable way to compete with bards and priests for DPS.</p></blockquote><p>Maybe I'm the odd man out here but I consistantly beat priest and bards. If not out right more than them I'm even with them. If I add in dynamism (synergy) to my dps count in ACT and I do even better. That doesn't count the other buffs like TC, TW along with the group buffs for resist reductions, mana returns and damage procs.</p>

[Spryt]

<p><cite>Selestian@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>EvilAstroboy wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Its the only viable way to compete with bards and priests for DPS.</p></blockquote><p>Maybe I'm the odd man out here but I consistantly beat priest and bards. If not out right more than them I'm even with them. If I add in dynamism (synergy) to my dps count in ACT and I do even better. That doesn't count the other buffs like TC, TW along with the group buffs for resist reductions, mana returns and damage procs.</p></blockquote><p>Do you also remove all the dps you do thanks to a troub potm, aria, group reuse, recovery, casting, int buffs, potency,  crit bonus, casting skills, UT and other buffs they provide including the extra dps you gain thanks to their debuffs?</p><p>Now try adding all that to the bards dps and remember most bard buffs are group/raid wide.</p><p>Are you still doing more dps then them?</p>

[Ebarel]

<p><cite>Selestian@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>EvilAstroboy wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Its the only viable way to compete with bards and priests for DPS.</p></blockquote><p>Maybe I'm the odd man out here but I consistantly beat priest and bards. If not out right more than them I'm even with them. If I add in dynamism (synergy) to my dps count in ACT and I do even better. That doesn't count the other buffs like TC, TW along with the group buffs for resist reductions, mana returns and damage procs.</p></blockquote><p>if you have more dps than your bards, they just suck. Even with your imaginative way of calculating.</p><p>And you may be odd. For me i am not happy with a toon that needs more clicking than anyone else, with no crowd control abilities that are useful or required (class role), mediocre buffs and abysmal dps. A Conj presses 1 button (send pet) and outdps me easily. if he knows what he is doing he will parse at least 2, more likely 3 times the dps than an Illusionist.</p><p>And i have a different expectation than you - i am not happy with managing to outparse a few (maintank) healers. That is depressing compared to the clicking effort you have to put into a Chanter and the benefit for a raid.</p>

[Celestian_]

<p><cite>Spryt wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Do you also remove all the dps you do thanks to a troub potm, aria, group reuse, recovery, casting, int buffs, potency,  crit bonus, casting skills, UT and other buffs they provide including the extra dps you gain thanks to their debuffs?<p>Now try adding all that to the bards dps and remember most bard buffs are group/raid wide.</p><p>Are you still doing more dps then them?</p></blockquote><p>I have removed their proc buffs, the ones that give more damage to spells when I cast. I also started tracking all my proc buffs as mine. With dynamism and peace of mind I was "effectively" doing a lot more (range of 14-16k dps).</p><p>No this doesn't account for all the haste/double spell attack and other abilities but it gives you an idea what an illusionist brings to the raid. Don't worry so much about the dps you do, consider what you bring to the raid that gives you "effective" dps.</p><p>If you want to see your own results just do a "data correction" in ACT to see what you are bringing to the raid. Frankly I feel much better knowing I am not low/mediocre dps for the raid in a round-about-way.</p>

[Celestian_]

<p><cite>Ebarel wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>if you have more dps than your bards, they just suck. Even with your imaginative way of calculating.</blockquote><blockquote><span style="color: #ff6600;">Perhaps you should look to yourself if you can't out dps a bard or priest. As to my calculation the normal ACT tracking was used. I only started looking deeper later to see how much effective dps I bring to the raid.</span></blockquote><blockquote><p>And you may be odd. For me i am not happy with a toon that needs more clicking than anyone else, with no crowd control abilities that are useful or required (class role), mediocre buffs and abysmal dps. A Conj presses 1 button (send pet) and outdps me easily. if he knows what he is doing he will parse at least 2, more likely 3 times the dps than an Illusionist.</p><p>And i have a different expectation than you - i am not happy with managing to outparse a few (maintank) healers. That s depressing compared to the clicking effort you have to put into a Chanter and the benefit for a raid.</p></blockquote><p>If you expect to do the same damage as a conj then you really should look to another class I think.</p><p>Your comment about CC does ring a bell with me. I really wish the enchanter in EQ2 was even remotely like the EQ1 enchanter. Mezing in raids is pointless... at least right now. The 3 dog fight would be pretty fun if we could mez even if it was just 1. It would give us a real purpose... instead they are nerfing the aoe damage which I'm not complaining about but do something different, let us mez.</p>

[EvilAstroboy]

<p><cite>Selestian@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Spryt wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Do you also remove all the dps you do thanks to a troub potm, aria, group reuse, recovery, casting, int buffs, potency,  crit bonus, casting skills, UT and other buffs they provide including the extra dps you gain thanks to their debuffs?<p>Now try adding all that to the bards dps and remember most bard buffs are group/raid wide.</p><p>Are you still doing more dps then them?</p></blockquote><p>I have removed their proc buffs, the ones that give more damage to spells when I cast. I also started tracking all my proc buffs as mine. With dynamism and peace of mind I was "effectively" doing a lot more (range of 14-16k dps).</p><p>No this doesn't account for all the haste/double spell attack and other abilities but it gives you an idea what an illusionist brings to the raid. Don't worry so much about the dps you do, consider what you bring to the raid that gives you "effective" dps.</p><p>If you want to see your own results just do a "data correction" in ACT to see what you are bringing to the raid. Frankly I feel much better knowing I am not low/mediocre dps for the raid in a round-about-way.</p></blockquote><p>Hilarious! Seriously if you cant see that Bards do more actual AND hypothetical DPS than an Illusionist then your are blind. Raidwide PoTM does more than PoM ever will. They give 10% crit bonus to the group permanently, which is fantastic since everyone is capped on potency, but wait... dont Illusionists give potency with Destructive Rampage? They do? Worthless buff you say?</p><p>Power replenishment and 5% spell double attack to one person aside, the Illusionist utility is garbage in this expansion, just like their own personal and hypothetical DPS. Anyone who actually cares about being the best for their role will be betraying to a Coercer if Illusionists arent changed in the next GU.</p>