Necro needing info about Conji's

[Caitlynd]

<p>I have a 53 almost 54 Necro and am thinking of betraying.</p><p>I was thinking of betraying to Conji class and needed to know a few things before I make up my mind.</p><p>I know Necro's can kill harder mobs easier then a conji (lest what I have been told) but I am unsure about the differences in gameplay.</p><p>1: Equal geared/leveled which one will kill their mob faster? Necro is DoT damage and Conji is DD's yet not sure if their is any difference in time it takes to kill a mob.</p><p>2: Which one is wanted in end game raiding more?</p><p>3: Which one seems to have more survivability? I am going to say Necro due to tainted heals but I want to make sure and how far apart they are.</p><p>Thanks</p>

[Armawk]

<p><cite>Ashantie@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I have a 53 almost 54 Necro and am thinking of betraying.</p><p>I was thinking of betraying to Conji class and needed to know a few things before I make up my mind.</p><p>I know Necro's can kill harder mobs easier then a conji (lest what I have been told) but I am unsure about the differences in gameplay.</p><p>1: Equal geared/leveled which one will kill their mob faster? Necro is DoT damage and Conji is DD's yet not sure if their is any difference in time it takes to kill a mob.</p><p>2: Which one is wanted in end game raiding more?</p><p>3: Which one seems to have more survivability? I am going to say Necro due to tainted heals but I want to make sure and how far apart they are.</p><p>Thanks</p></blockquote><p>I know my conj a lot better than necro but from my perspective:</p><p>1: Necro probably kills faster if using your tank pet, conj tank pet is mostly defensive. Mage pet? little difference I would say. Lots of DoTs on Conjuror too. lots of knockbacks and such too though which is actually very helpful.</p><p>2: Conjuror is what Im reading post SF, but hopefully some raiders will come in.</p><p>3: Conjuror gets a lot better pet healing (which doesnt kill you!) and a more solid pet, but necro gets a lot of self heals through all those life taps. Swings and roundabouts I think, Conjuror stands up better to direct damage to the pet but necro can stand up to a lot more personal damage. Stoneskins are good on Conj.</p>

[Xalmat]

<p>1. Conjuror kills much faster than a necro when soloing. However Necros can last a LOT longer in a fight thanks to Tainted Heals and nearly unlimited mana with Lich.</p><p>2. Neither one is really more wanted than the other, it always comes down to player skill. However from most players' perception, there are more skilled Conjurors than Necromancers, therefore you see more Conjurors in raid slots than Necromancers.</p><p>3. It's a wash. Conjurors get a lot of stoneskins, but necros get FD and lifetaps.</p><p>If you're not happy with Necromancer, you won't be happy with Conjuror either. Conjurors are a LOT more micromanaging than Necros, and are MUCH, MUCH more reliant on the pet for sustained DPS than the Necromancer.</p>

[Axanar]

<p>So how do necros and conjies as skilled players compare in DPS at 90 this expansion?</p>

[Xalmat]

<p>The difference is negligible.</p>

[Axanar]

<p>Thanks!, even with the difference between EB and AD/LB?</p>

[Xalmat]

<p>Yes. If you factor in everything, the difference between conj and necro is negligible either way.</p>

[Axanar]

<p>Thanks! I may have to consider going back. I miss FD and my epic lol</p>

[Xalmat]

<p><cite>Xalmat wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If you're not happy with Necromancer, you won't be happy with Conjuror either..</p></blockquote><p>Don't say I didn't warn you.</p>

[Germs666]

<p><cite>Xalmat wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Yes. If you factor in everything, the difference between conj and necro is negligible either way.</p></blockquote><p>I'm calling BS here I'm sorry. Elemental Blast is seriously overpowered due to it's recast and the fact that planeshift amplifies it's damage making Conjurors better at single target and AoE dps.</p><p>But if necros had a similar ability I'd try to deny it too <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>(please don't say Lifeburn is comparable due to it's recast alone. If you look at the top Conji parses. EB is parsing at the top or second of every parse. Where as lifeburn is never at the top of any top necro parse period.)</p><p>No reason to play a necro over a conji at this point at all.</p>

[Xalmat]

<p>Have you seen top end necro parses? They spank Conjuror parses.</p>

[Alfeo]

<p><cite>Germs666 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Xalmat wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Yes. If you factor in everything, the difference between conj and necro is negligible either way.</p></blockquote><p>I'm calling BS here I'm sorry. Elemental Blast is seriously overpowered due to it's recast and the fact that planeshift amplifies it's damage making Conjurors better at single target and AoE dps.</p><p>But if necros had a similar ability I'd try to deny it too <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p><p>(please don't say Lifeburn is comparable due to it's recast alone. If you look at the top Conji parses. EB is parsing at the top or second of every parse. Where as lifeburn is never at the top of any top necro parse period.)</p><p>No reason to play a necro over a conji at this point at all.</p></blockquote><p>See class balance isn't determined by one classes' single ability vs another classes' single ability. Its actually determined by all of their abilities/buffs/gear/etc which will affect how they actually parse in a fight.</p><p>You can make any sort of argument you like, but the parses that we have seen so far do not agree with you. Go to eq2flames and check out the parses on the forums for the same fights, You'll find that not only are conjies and necros both doing 30-40k on single fights and getting 30k zws but that necros on average seem to be getting higher parses than conjies. The edge doesn't seem super huge but its there.</p><p>If you are going to contest this notion, then bring some actual relevant raid data into this. Give us some parse data. I bet any parse you can show a conjy doing, there is a necro who can match it or top it for single target fights.</p>

[Lantis]

<p>I second that - conjurors aren't that far ahead of necros because of EB alone.</p><p>The fact EB is so high on our parse doesn't mean anything.  It could very well be that the other spells below it are generally parsing LESS than similar necros spells.  What matters is the total parse - EB mostly equalizes things up when you take everything globally (i.e. a zonewide, not just a single fight parse).  Cause in the past a good necro would always outparse a good conjuror.  Now it's probably more of a toss-up between the two of them.</p>

[Xalmat]

<p>Elemental Blast isn't even close to our number one spell on the parse. Crystal Blast still exceeds it, except on super short fights.</p>

[Germs666]

<p><cite>Xalmat wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Have you seen top end necro parses? They spank Conjuror parses.</p></blockquote><p>That's one necro guild leader who gets every buff/bolster for lifeburn everytime ROA with dibs on all loot in a guild that does 400k+ DPS. I wouldn't call that the norm.</p><p>The problem is that all the good pet gear does not affect necro pets equally at all. In fact your pets are doing more damage than you guys now because of that ability and potency on pet gear. Am I jealous of course, but I wouldn't say we are equal since the only thing we can do better is Rez!</p>

[Xalmat]

<p>And personal blue stats don't affect our pets. So we're even.</p>

[Azxira]

<p>Okay... nothing to do with damage...  </p><p>At least Necros don't have a radioactive [Removed for Content] following them into battle.</p>

[Germs666]

<p>Still no advantages being a necro over a conji unless you like to rez.</p><p>Conjis have better single target/multi target dps and better utility</p>

[Xalmat]

<p><cite>Germs666 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Conjis have better single target dps</p></blockquote><p>Simply not true.</p>

[Germs666]

<p><cite>Xalmat wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Germs666 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Conjis have better single target dps</p></blockquote><p>Simply not true.</p></blockquote><p>I raid with a conji so we have similar gear/buffs (or lack of) and when EB is up I'm seeing an 8k-10k gap on some single target fights.</p><p>Why? He's getting 2 EBs per Lifeburn. Sure Lifeburn can beat EB but not 2 of them! I'd love to see Lifeburn get reworked due to the 5 min recast/healing requirement/damage limitation(not to exceed 60% of a mobs health??!)/and 30 sec immunity but's that's another thread entirely.</p>

[Xalmat]

<p>And Elemental Blast is subject to the whims of the random number generator. You can get a double crit for 500k, or you can get a single non-crit for 100k. Or it could outright resist. And it's also subject to debuffs on the mob, the pet's base damage and potency (which caps except for INT), and any debuffs on the pet.</p><p>On the other hand, Lifeburn is completely controlled by you and the amount of healing you're receiving, as well as your base damage and potency and your max HP. Everything you can control. Not to mention it's focus damage, making it unresistable.</p><p>You need to get a jcap or RoA, plus bolster and other +HP buffs, before you cast Lifeburn. Most top-end necros are getting around 30k damage/tick Lifeburns, which on average is better than Elemental Blast's average hit.</p><p>And as much as you like to hate on Elemental Blast, it's not our best DPS spell except in super short fights that last under 2-3 minutes. And in a 2+ minute single-target fight if you aren't matching the Conjuror's dps, or exceeding it, you're doing something wrong.</p>

[Axanar]

<p>Looking at the two parse threads on flames, it looks pretty darn even.</p><p>I am still curious however though about how the situation may change when you consider the more casual player raiding maybe once a week (yet still skilled)?</p><p>We should do a meta-analysis to settle the debate!</p>

[Xalmat]

<p><cite>Axanar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Looking at the two parse threads on flames, it looks pretty darn even.</p><p>I am still curious however though about how the situation may change when you consider the more casual player raiding maybe once a week (yet still skilled)?</p><p>We should do a meta-analysis to settle the debate!</p></blockquote><p>Then gear comes into play. And goes without saying, if one is significantly better geared than the other, then the better geared person <em>should</em> be doing better dps.</p>

[Axanar]

<p><cite>Xalmat wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Axanar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Looking at the two parse threads on flames, it looks pretty darn even.</p><p>I am still curious however though about how the situation may change when you consider the more casual player raiding maybe once a week (yet still skilled)?</p><p>We should do a meta-analysis to settle the debate!</p></blockquote><p>Then gear comes into play. And goes without saying, if one is significantly better geared than the other, then the better geared person <em>should</em> be doing better dps.</p></blockquote><p>I guess in my scenario I should stated equal gear as well as equal skill <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />,</p><p>which exists in the parse threads, but I am not sure its a linear relationship between casual and hardcore situations and whether that equal trend continues.</p>

[Germs666]

<p><cite>Xalmat wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You need to get a jcap or RoA, plus bolster and other +HP buffs, before you cast Lifeburn.</p></blockquote><p>This is the problem right here. Good luck getting all those buffs in raid. You won't see them in a PuG, you won't see them in BGs.</p><p>Hey it's the necro/mystic/healer/troubs problem not the devs for making a T2 DPS class so dependant on other classes to perform. Not to mention all these stupid life drains we have to have active on top of all this.</p><p>If the difference is marginal why would anyone want to deal with all of the above hassles when you can have EZ win buttons like EB at your disposal?</p><p>Hell, our endline accelerated decay doesn't even apply to all of our DoTs!</p><p>That being said I'd never betray but to say we are equal to you guys is a lie. </p>

[Lantis]

<p><cite>Germs666 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If the difference is marginal why would anyone want to deal with all of the above hassles when you can have EZ win buttons like EB at your disposal?</p></blockquote><p>This is hogwash.  For EB to be effective, you have to</p><p>a) Cast it at the right time so not to have your pet instantly rip, die, and make you a sitting duck for the next 7 seconds as you recast it - assuming you didn't also die in the process.  Unlike you, your pet rarely benefits from any serious aggro management buff.  You have to rely on the Int line AA for that, which requires, once again, to have the skill to use it properlyb) Combine it with Planeshift, which has a basic reuse timer of 12 minutes (you might get it down to 7 minutes with all the proper red adorns and gear, but the *average* conjuror doesn't have that luxury)c) Hope that your pet obtains a critd) Hope that your pet gets a Double Spell Attack (only 10% chance if you have that AA maxxed out)</p><p>It involves skill, gear, timing, and luck.  If you cast it blindly and you're not lucky, EB will only do around 100K.  Just because it *can* hit 400K now and then when all the stars allign doesn't mean it always does, or that it will do for anyone who doesn't have any clue about how to play this class at its fullest.</p><p>Yes, it IS a powerful ability.  But no, it's hardly "EZ win button".  And its result can be highly variable, aside from the fact that it requires skill to increase your chance to maximize its effect.  And seeing how an equally skilled sorceror will still outparse a conjuror, I don't think EB is overly overpowered.</p>