Monk DPS in group environment [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

Janto

03-26-2010, 02:54 PM

Hey guys,I was wondering how the monk fares in a pure group environment for DPS?I run with a small guild that we pretty much only do group content (maybe some x2 raids)SK, Inquis, Dirge, Conj/Ranger, Troub, (me) is our normal group make up. I generally run as my Mystic but have been looking to play some DPS. I have tried assassin out and didn't really like the feel of the class overall. I don't need to be top of the parse but if well played where can the Monk expect to fall in the scheme of things?Thanks ahead of time!

circusgirl

03-26-2010, 04:03 PM

Generally speaking, you will fall below sorcerers, summoners, predators, and swashbucklers and above warriors, healers, and bards. (This is assuming equal gear/skill)Depending on the content, you may be above or below enchanters. You'll usually beat crusaders, but not always. I tend to find myself about equal to a good brigand for dps, but with the ability to tank instead of debuffs. Honestly, if you're not interested in tanking, I wouldn't choose monk. A rogue is probably a better match for what you seem to want.

Blu

03-26-2010, 08:01 PM

I would tend to agree with Vinka's assessment. However, if you've got a good group to run with, then by all means enjoy yourself and play whichever class is fun to you. But, if you're looking for good compatibility with PUGs and raids (as dps), then a different class would be a better option: any of the ones Vinka mentioned being above our dps (including brigands b/c of their debuffs).

BChizzle

03-26-2010, 08:12 PM

Unlike what you are being told most monks start out as dps'ers. We are ok as you level and learn and actually do really well in comparison to other DPS'ers at the same gear level. However, when you get to end game you will slowly go from being a top dpser to mid tier and that is the time you are going to have to learn to tank. Personally people telling you not to choose monk for DPS are wrong for someone starting out it is a good way to learn the class but eventually keep in mind you will be tanking or you will just be a 2nd class dps possible group filler which isn't really that bad of a role because you still will outparse the bad playing dpsers.Most monks telling you monks aren't dpsers started out as DPS'ers anyways, in the end if you like the class play it anyway you like it.

Couching

03-27-2010, 12:01 PM

Lethe5683

03-28-2010, 08:38 PM

<cite>Howll@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hey guys,I was wondering how the monk fares in a pure group environment for DPS?I run with a small guild that we pretty much only do group content (maybe some x2 raids)SK, Inquis, Dirge, Conj/Ranger, Troub, (me) is our normal group make up. I generally run as my Mystic but have been looking to play some DPS. I have tried assassin out and didn't really like the feel of the class overall. I don't need to be top of the parse but if well played where can the Monk expect to fall in the scheme of things?Thanks ahead of time!</blockquote>If you want to be DPS don't play a brawler.<cite>BChizzle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Unlike what you are being told most monks start out as dps'ers. We are ok as you level and learn and actually do really well in comparison to other DPS'ers at the same gear level. However, when you get to end game you will slowly go from being a top dpser to mid tier and that is the time you are going to have to learn to tank. Personally people telling you not to choose monk for DPS are wrong for someone starting out it is a good way to learn the class but eventually keep in mind you will be tanking or you will just be a 2nd class dps possible group filler which isn't really that bad of a role because you still will outparse the bad playing dpsers.Most monks telling you monks aren't dpsers started out as DPS'ers anyways, in the end if you like the class play it anyway you like it.</blockquote>I have been able to tank better than DPS since about level 20.

BChizzle

03-28-2010, 10:01 PM

<cite>Lethe5683 wrote:</cite><blockquote>I have been able to tank better than DPS since about level 20.</blockquote>I out dps the top dpsers in your guild.

Lethe5683

03-28-2010, 10:44 PM

<cite>BChizzle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lethe5683 wrote:</cite><blockquote>I have been able to tank better than DPS since about level 20.</blockquote>I out dps the top dpsers in your guild.</blockquote>If you do it's only because of extreamly good gear.

BChizzle

03-29-2010, 12:49 AM

<cite>Lethe5683 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>BChizzle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lethe5683 wrote:</cite><blockquote>I have been able to tank better than DPS since about level 20.</blockquote>I out dps the top dpsers in your guild.</blockquote>If you do it's only because of extreamly good gear.</blockquote>I also out dps the top dps in my guild which is one of the top parsing guilds WW. Must be the gear advantage I have over them too right?

Lethe5683

03-29-2010, 07:57 AM

<cite>BChizzle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lethe5683 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>BChizzle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lethe5683 wrote:</cite><blockquote>I have been able to tank better than DPS since about level 20.</blockquote>I out dps the top dpsers in your guild.</blockquote>If you do it's only because of extreamly good gear.</blockquote>I also out dps the top dps in my guild which is one of the top parsing guilds WW. Must be the gear advantage I have over them too right?</blockquote>Nope they must just suck then.

BChizzle

03-29-2010, 01:05 PM

<cite>Lethe5683 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>BChizzle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lethe5683 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>BChizzle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lethe5683 wrote:</cite><blockquote>I have been able to tank better than DPS since about level 20.</blockquote>I out dps the top dpsers in your guild.</blockquote>If you do it's only because of extreamly good gear.</blockquote>I also out dps the top dps in my guild which is one of the top parsing guilds WW. Must be the gear advantage I have over them too right?</blockquote>Nope they must just suck then.</blockquote>Since you can't dps well you clearly shouldn't be pointing fingers.

Blu

03-29-2010, 01:26 PM

<cite>BChizzle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Unlike what you are being told most monks start out as dps'ers. We are ok as you level and learn and actually do really well in comparison to other DPS'ers at the same gear level. However, when you get to end game you will slowly go from being a top dpser to mid tier and that is the time you are going to have to learn to tank. Personally people telling you not to choose monk for DPS are wrong for someone starting out it is a good way to learn the class but eventually keep in mind you will be tanking or you will just be a 2nd class dps possible group filler which isn't really that bad of a role because you still will outparse the bad playing dpsers.Most monks telling you monks aren't dpsers started out as DPS'ers anyways, in the end if you like the class play it anyway you like it.</blockquote>Well, I'm speaking towards the top tier content, which ends up being all about grouping and raiding. I'd hate for the OP to go along enjoying himself as solo / dps and then suddenly get a rude awakening when they hit t9 and try to PUG.Been there, done that. It sucked. (was TSO content for me)

circusgirl

03-29-2010, 01:45 PM

Monks can put out some pretty decent numbers. I pug all the time, and I join groups as dps or as a tank depending on whichever is more in demand. And when I'm grouping with just about anyone but my own raidforce, I'll top the parse--but I've got a pretty strong gear advantage, so I don't think that really counts. The truth is, even if you don't have a massive gear advantage you'll be able to put out decent numbers comparable to a brigand or enchanter. You won't, however, bring the same utility to a group that they do. If you intend to dps and only dps, and never ever tank, I really wouldn't recomend monk. If you just want to get groups and have fun, and don't care whether its as a tank or as dps, then this class offers the flexibility to do just that.

BChizzle

03-29-2010, 02:39 PM

<cite>Vinka@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Monks can put out some pretty decent numbers. I pug all the time, and I join groups as dps or as a tank depending on whichever is more in demand. And when I'm grouping with just about anyone but my own raidforce, I'll top the parse--but I've got a pretty strong gear advantage, so I don't think that really counts. The truth is, even if you don't have a massive gear advantage you'll be able to put out decent numbers comparable to a brigand or enchanter. You won't, however, bring the same utility to a group that they do. If you intend to dps and only dps, and never ever tank, I really wouldn't recomend monk. If you just want to get groups and have fun, and don't care whether its as a tank or as dps, then this class offers the flexibility to do just that.</blockquote>This. Fact is you can get by as a monk just being a dps. It certainly isn't the best role to take and it will make grouping harder on you but there are plenty that do it. End of the day we are tanks but it is certainly one of those classes where you can also fulfill the dps role if you do it right. Now as far as gear advantages go again monks peak early gear wise compared to other classes that is why you always see them do so well early into expansions. Anyhow, I've never in my time in eq2 been refused a dps role in a groups, however, many monks can tell you that they have been refused a tanking role. It isn't uncommon that you will be in group as a monk and people will say something like "OK now we need a tank" so despite what people say monks are in fact looked upon as dps too from the general community.EDIT: Put it this way, there isn't a monk yelling we need more dps right now, monks current issues lay in the tanking/utility aspects. This has been the case for quite a long time now.

Blu

03-29-2010, 03:47 PM

<cite>BChizzle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vinka@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Monks can put out some pretty decent numbers. I pug all the time, and I join groups as dps or as a tank depending on whichever is more in demand. And when I'm grouping with just about anyone but my own raidforce, I'll top the parse--but I've got a pretty strong gear advantage, so I don't think that really counts. The truth is, even if you don't have a massive gear advantage you'll be able to put out decent numbers comparable to a brigand or enchanter. You won't, however, bring the same utility to a group that they do. If you intend to dps and only dps, and never ever tank, I really wouldn't recomend monk. If you just want to get groups and have fun, and don't care whether its as a tank or as dps, then this class offers the flexibility to do just that.</blockquote>This. Fact is you can get by as a monk just being a dps. It certainly isn't the best role to take and it will make grouping harder on you but there are plenty that do it. End of the day we are tanks but it is certainly one of those classes where you can also fulfill the dps role if you do it right. Now as far as gear advantages go again monks peak early gear wise compared to other classes that is why you always see them do so well early into expansions. Anyhow, I've never in my time in eq2 been refused a dps role in a groups, however, many monks can tell you that they have been refused a tanking role. It isn't uncommon that you will be in group as a monk and people will say something like "OK now we need a tank" so despite what people say monks are in fact looked upon as dps too from the general community.EDIT: Put it this way, there isn't a monk yelling we need more dps right now, monks current issues lay in the tanking/utility aspects. This has been the case for quite a long time now.</blockquote>I will say that since it's early in SF, yeah you can probably get by as just dps for now. I've gotten lots of groups as that.The rough experience I had was in TSO and I came to the expansion late in the game. So pretty much everyone was expecting at least t2 gear to group and x2. (But how are you supposed to get shards without groups?) So, I tried shelving Xerq multiple times b/c it was so frustrating finding groups. However, I couldn't find any alts that were nearly as fun to me.

Lethe5683

03-30-2010, 10:00 PM

<cite>BChizzle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lethe5683 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>BChizzle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lethe5683 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>BChizzle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lethe5683 wrote:</cite><blockquote>I have been able to tank better than DPS since about level 20.</blockquote>I out dps the top dpsers in your guild.</blockquote>If you do it's only because of extreamly good gear.</blockquote>I also out dps the top dps in my guild which is one of the top parsing guilds WW. Must be the gear advantage I have over them too right?</blockquote>Nope they must just suck then.</blockquote>Since you can't dps well you clearly shouldn't be pointing fingers.</blockquote>That's pretty hilarious. How do you know how well I DPS? Oh that's right, you don't. All you know is that you with your far superior gear and most likely better raid setup can outparse me which says very little. If with the hear advantage you have you couldn't out DPS me than that would just be SAD.

BChizzle

03-30-2010, 10:56 PM

<cite>Lethe5683 wrote:</cite><blockquote>That's pretty hilarious. How do you know how well I DPS? Oh that's right, you don't. All you know is that you with your far superior gear and most likely better raid setup can outparse me which says very little. If with the hear advantage you have you couldn't out DPS me than that would just be SAD.</blockquote>It is very easy know how you dps, you are telling monks they can't dps. How you would come up with this notion could only be from your own performance because clearly every other monk out there has no issues putting up respectable dps numbers.

Lethe5683

03-31-2010, 09:02 AM

<cite>Chizzle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lethe5683 wrote:</cite><blockquote>That's pretty hilarious. How do you know how well I DPS? Oh that's right, you don't. All you know is that you with your far superior gear and most likely better raid setup can outparse me which says very little. If with the hear advantage you have you couldn't out DPS me than that would just be SAD.</blockquote>It is very easy know how you dps, you are telling monks they can't dps. How you would come up with this notion could only be from your own performance because clearly every other monk out there has no issues putting up respectable dps numbers.</blockquote>I never said that. What I said was...<cite>Lethe5683 wrote:</cite><blockquote>If you want to be DPS don't play a brawler.</blockquote>...which is true. If the only reason you a rolling a brawler is to DPS than don't. There are other classes that do FAR better DPS while having nearly as much utility as well as classes that do slightly more or slightly less DPS and have LOADS more utility. A brawler that can only DPS is about as useless as a chanter that can only DPS and doesn't know what manaflow is. If you are going to roll a brawler then you should learn how to tank and DPS equally well and preferably be able to do both at the same time.

BChizzle

03-31-2010, 09:24 AM

<cite>Lethe5683 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Chizzle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lethe5683 wrote:</cite><blockquote>That's pretty hilarious. How do you know how well I DPS? Oh that's right, you don't. All you know is that you with your far superior gear and most likely better raid setup can outparse me which says very little. If with the hear advantage you have you couldn't out DPS me than that would just be SAD.</blockquote>It is very easy know how you dps, you are telling monks they can't dps. How you would come up with this notion could only be from your own performance because clearly every other monk out there has no issues putting up respectable dps numbers.</blockquote>I never said that. What I said was...<cite>Lethe5683 wrote:</cite><blockquote>If you want to be DPS don't play a brawler.</blockquote>...which is true. If the only reason you a rolling a brawler is to DPS than don't. There are other classes that do FAR better DPS while having nearly as much utility as well as classes that do slightly more or slightly less DPS and have LOADS more utility. A brawler that can only DPS is about as useless as a chanter that can only DPS and doesn't know what manaflow is. If you are going to roll a brawler then you should learn how to tank and DPS equally well and preferably be able to do both at the same time.</blockquote>Funny you would make that comparison, most people don't bring a chanter to raids for manaflow or even really care much about manaflow. Most could also care less if the chanter is a good mezzer since this game doesn't really require a good mezzer. In the end you bring a chanter for the buffs and dps. Fact is you can get by being just a monk who dpses hell it will probably be easier to find a home in that role then work yourself into a tanking role later.

Mosha D'Khan

03-31-2010, 09:41 AM

since you are now saying "brawler" over monk i am going to say a few things. this it the only time i will agree with bchizzle (at least it is the first time)brawlers are DPS, i DPS more then most people in my guild as a bruiser. dont know what your problem is man but you are wrong. i DPS anywhere form about 18k to 22k in raids now. i beat most people in my guild and am up there with the assassins. you can say that they dont have gear and blah blah blah. i only have 3 pieces of red adornment raid gear (head, gloves, and boots). i have the pants but is tank peice and i dont use, seen they dont have me tank. every guild i have raided with has brought me along for DPSing and i have never really tanked anything.i had to go build a complete Tank AA set up, and still dont get asked to tank. so people do take brawlers for DPS over tanking, and if you dont then your DPS must really suck. other wise this would not be and argument

circusgirl

03-31-2010, 10:56 AM

Brawlers can dps, sure. And we pull in decent numbers. But really, any class from assassin to mystic can dps. It's just a question of how well they dps. Brawlers are pretty good, and we especially shine at times like now when we tend to outgear our peers, but once things balance out a little better, we'll fall down into the middle range.The fact remains that an equally geared and skilled sorcerer, predator, or swashy will pull in better numbers, and an equally geared enchanter or brig will pull in equal numbers plus utility. You can pull off a dps role, sure, but you won't be living up to the class's full potential unless you tank as well. Even Bchizzle is saying that the best route is to start off as dps and then work your way in to a tanking role. Its nice to have the flexibility to do both. DPSing is great if you're not very confident and want to learn a zone before you have to tank it yourself.

Lethe5683

03-31-2010, 01:28 PM

<cite>Mosha DKhan wrote:</cite><blockquote>since you are now saying "brawler" over monk i am going to say a few things. this it the only time i will agree with bchizzle (at least it is the first time)brawlers are DPS, i DPS more then most people in my guild as a bruiser. dont know what your problem is man but you are wrong. i DPS anywhere form about 18k to 22k in raids now. i beat most people in my guild and am up there with the assassins. you can say that they dont have gear and blah blah blah. i only have 3 pieces of red adornment raid gear (head, gloves, and boots). i have the pants but is tank peice and i dont use, seen they dont have me tank. every guild i have raided with has brought me along for DPSing and i have never really tanked anything.i had to go build a complete Tank AA set up, and still dont get asked to tank. so people do take brawlers for DPS over tanking, and if you dont then your DPS must really suck. other wise this would not be and argument</blockquote>Then the DPS in your raid must be doing something seriously wrong since my assassin, with only TSO T3-T4 (Only hands, wrists and feet T4 and low-end SF legendary jewelery), does about the same DPS as you do.

Lethe5683

03-31-2010, 01:31 PM

<cite>BChizzle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Funny you would make that comparison, most people don't bring a chanter to raids for manaflow or even really care much about manaflow. Most could also care less if the chanter is a good mezzer since this game doesn't really require a good mezzer. In the end you bring a chanter for the buffs and dps. Fact is you can get by being just a monk who dpses hell it will probably be easier to find a home in that role then work yourself into a tanking role later.</blockquote>People don't bring chanters for power regen? Either SF raiding is absolutly nothing like RoK and TSO raiding or are lieing. And I didn't just say they couldn't use mana regen, I said that they could "only DPS".