{SF AA} Mage pet - Spell Double-attack - not working correctly?

[Blambil]

<p>With 8 pts into Mage Pet Double-attack, I'm not seeing anything near a "10% chance" -- I parsed the last couple weeks, and here's the "special attacks" report... Anyone else seeing sub 10% rates with 8pts in?</p><p><a title="ImageShack - Image And Video Hosting" href="http://img156.imageshack.us/i/specialattacksconj.png/" target="_blank"><img src="http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/4363/specialattacksconj.png" border="0" /></a></p><p>Other than the odd "Freeze" spells (mage group proc?) the rates are way sub 10%.. I realize EB is a big truckload of DMG, but sub 1%? geez... (I'll admit, I was falling out of my chair when it DID double.. actually noticed 1 of the 3 times..)</p><p>Total of 22,558 spell attacks, 768 Spell DA's, for 3.4% Spell DA.</p>

[Xalmat]

<p>Keep in mind two things:</p><p>1. A Spell DA does less damage than a regular spell cast.</p><p>2. Number of hits includes all DoT ticks. So your overall DA chance will appear lower automatically for this reason.</p><p>I'll look over my logs and see what numbers I get and compare.</p><p>"Freeze" is the result of using the scout pet.</p><p>*Update* Zonewide raid parses show my pet's spell DA chance is over 10%, closer to 15%.</p>

[Blambil]

<p>Thx for the reply, you were the person I was hoping to hear from. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p><cite>Xalmat wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Keep in mind two things:</p><p>1. A Spell DA does less damage than a regular spell cast. <strong>- Not worried about dmg, was checking PROC rate</strong></p><p>2. Number of hits includes all DoT ticks. So your overall DA chance will appear lower automatically for this reason.<strong> - Both numbers are listed in the image above... Proc rate, and extra hits. Even if it double the proc rate (which it doesn't) it would still be sub 10%</strong></p><p>*Update* Zonewide raid parses show my pet's spell DA chance is over 10%, closer to 15%. -- <strong>Mind sharing a "special attacks report" like this one? Trying to find if the flaw is in the doing, or the reporting...</strong></p></blockquote><p>Also, are you getting any benefit from group buffs that perhaps increase the spell DA chance/rate?</p>

[Xalmat]

<p>There are only two spells that increase spell DA chance:</p><p>Time Warp, and Time Compression with the proper illusionist AA.</p><p>Both benefit the pet.</p>

[Blambil]

<p>Just did a library run this morning....</p><p><a title="ImageShack - Image And Video Hosting" href="http://img191.imageshack.us/i/specialattacksconflibra.png/" target="_blank"><img src="http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/4051/specialattacksconflibra.png" border="0" /></a></p><p>same kinda numbers.. 802 total spell casts, 38 DA procs, 47 DA spell hits as a result. 4.74% DA proc rate, 5.86% DA "hit" rate.</p><p>As I understand the verbage, it's supposed to cause 10% chance to double-attack.. or 10% double attacks.. which I'm sure is different, but I'd suspect over time should come out about the same??</p>

[Xalmat]

<p>Resummon your pet perhaps?</p>

[Blambil]

<p>I'll turn the pet loose on the practice dummy in the GH a few times tonight, we'll see what he does.. Do you mind doing the same?</p>

[Xalmat]

<p><cite>Blambil@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'll turn the pet loose on the practice dummy in the GH a few times tonight, we'll see what he does.. Do you mind doing the same?</p></blockquote><p>Make sure you use multiple training dummys. The longer the parse data the better. IE: If you can get a 30 minute parse that would affirm it.</p>

[Blambil]

<p>I need something that lasts longer than 3 minutes... I'm 10 rounds in, and the pet is killing the TD in between 2:30 and 2:55... (Interestingly the myth pet still kills the TD faster.. almost 30 seconds faster... best case with PS/EB/etc up, but no help from me, was 1:18..)</p><p>I need a mob that never fights back and never dies... <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p><p>couple of merged sets, only 2 fights each -- one with expert pet (t9) one with myth pet.. (more later, need to sleep)</p><p>T9 pet (31 crit on 428 attacks, 7.24% DA)</p><p><a title="ImageShack - Image And Video Hosting" href="http://img39.imageshack.us/i/tdburnexpertpet.png/" target="_blank"><img src="http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/571/tdburnexpertpet.png" border="0" /></a></p> <p>Myth Pet (10 crits, 229 attacks, 4.37% DA)</p><p><a title="ImageShack - Image And Video Hosting" href="http://img38.imageshack.us/i/tdburnmythpet.png/" target="_blank"><img src="http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/3393/tdburnmythpet.png" border="0" /></a></p><p>I'll run some more tommorrow, but I'm still seeing #'s consistant with my couple of weeks worth of logs.. Still well below 10%.</p>

[jddaniels]

<p>I know sess mentioned this but wanted to reiterate it.</p><p>A lot of the pets spells are dot's and each tic will show as a hit on the parse, yet only the initial hit will have a chance to double attack.  This would cause the numbers to be lower.  Unless there was a way that you isolated just the initial hits those numbers aren't accurate.  You would have to go look at the actual attacks and see which of the initial hits da not all hits.</p>

[Harduc]

<p><cite>Xalmat wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>There are only two spells that increase spell DA chance:</p><p>Time Warp, and Time Compression with the proper illusionist AA.</p><p>Both benefit the pet.</p></blockquote><p>wait, what?</p><p>if the illu cast timewarp on me, the pet will also double attack?</p>

[Blambil]

<p><cite>jddaniels wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>A lot of the pets spells are dot's and each tic will show as a hit on the parse, yet only the initial hit will have a chance to double attack.  This would cause the numbers to be lower.  Unless there was a way that you isolated just the initial hits those numbers aren't accurate.  You would have to go look at the actual attacks and see which of the initial hits da not all hits.</p></blockquote><p>Looking back through my logs... I see what you're saying.. Searing Flames, which has 4128+ ticks in my log, seems to only DA on the first tick.. 97 DA's, which is an abysmal 2.41% DA rate.  Crits work on all ticks, DA's only seem to take on the first tick. Oddly however, spells that hit multiple times, but not over time, DA on all ticks..</p><p>I would have expected DA to work on all ticks... given the number of DOT's that both we and the pet use, that hurts..</p><p>One of my initial thoughts was "is this a reporting flaw, or a functional flaw".... When I get a chance, I'll take one of the 3m logs and spend a little time identifying DOT hits, and make sure ACT isn't either (1) missing something or (2) misreporting the results. Right now it seems pretty black & white to me.</p><p>(as an aside, one thing I did notice in my experimenting last night... planar shift seems to raise the DA rate by quite a bit... One fight last night I had a >10% average DA rate while planar shifted..)</p>

[Xalmat]

<p><cite>Blambil@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I get what you're saying.. I'm wondering however, if that really matters..DOT DA hits are reported correctly as DA's, and it will DA on all ticks, not just the first one.. it should scale 1:1. It's also why we're looking at DA per spell, as well as overall DA rate..</p></blockquote><p>That's not how the Spell DA mechanic works.</p>

[Blambil]

<p><cite>Xalmat wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Blambil@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I get what you're saying.. I'm wondering however, if that really matters..DOT DA hits are reported correctly as DA's, and it will DA on all ticks, not just the first one.. it should scale 1:1. It's also why we're looking at DA per spell, as well as overall DA rate..</p></blockquote><p>That's not how the Spell DA mechanic works.</p></blockquote><p>So in order to correctly report, ACT would have to know how many ticks each spell the pet is casting has.</p><p>Assuming a spell had 10 ticks, that would mean 4000 ticks in the log would be 400 casts of the spell. 400 casts with 40 DA's, would, in fact, be a 10% DA rate.</p>

[Fendaria]

<p><cite>Blambil@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>1 spell, no DA, 6 ticks, counts as 6 hits. 1 spell, yes DA, 6 ticks, counts as 6 hits + 6 "DA" hits</p></blockquote><p>I don't believe this is correct.  When a DoT has its DA, only the first tick hits twice and then the others are single. </p><p>1 spell, no DA, 6 ticks, counts as 6 hits</p><p>1 spell, yes DA, 6 ticks + 1 initial DA hit, counts as 6 ticks + 1 DA hit</p><p>Stolen from the old Wizard guide about how Spell Double attack worked back then and I don't think anything has sufficiently changed since then about the mechanics of how it behaves.</p><p><em>There are a few things to know about spell double attacks:</em></p><ul><li><em>A spell double attack is applied immediately after the spell that triggered it lands.</em></li><li><em>All spell double attacks are applied without a second cast period.</em></li><li><em>A spell double attack can crit. The chance to crit is calculated independetly from the spell that triggered the double attack.</em></li><li><em>A spell double attack gains exactly the same benefit from base damage modifiers. (potency)</em></li><li><em>A spell double attack does not benefit from any +spell damage that you have. (ability mod)</em></li><li><em>A spell double attack can not proc spell or item procs.</em></li><li><em>A spell double attack on a dot spell only reapplies the dot, so you only get the benefit of the initial hit twice (not any subsequent ticks).</em></li></ul><p>Fendaria</p>

[Xalmat]

<p>These spells are the only accurate spells you can trust to measure the pet's true spell DA chance, because these are straight up direct damage attacks:</p><ul><li>Minion's Mark</li><li>Fury of the Elements</li><li>Igneous Flames</li><li>Blazing Conjuration</li><li>Sphere of Flames</li><li>Shocking Flames</li></ul><p>With that said, it definitely looks like, on average, the pet is spell DAing 10% of the time (with some slight variation due to the random number generator).</p><p>Here's the data I got on a 30 minute fight last night (single encounter):</p><ul><li>Minion's Mark: 10.14%</li><li>Fury of the Elements: 12.15%</li><li>Igneous Flames: 8.76%</li><li>Blazing Conjuration: 7.69%</li><li>Sphere of Flames: 6.38%</li><li>Shocking Flames: 12.31%</li><li><strong>Average: 9.57%</strong></li></ul>

[Blambil]

<p><cite>Fendaria wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><ul><li><em>A spell double attack is applied immediately after the spell that triggered it lands.</em></li><li><em>All spell double attacks are applied without a second cast period.</em></li><li><em>A spell double attack can crit. The chance to crit is calculated independetly from the spell that triggered the double attack.</em></li><li><em>A spell double attack gains exactly the same benefit from base damage modifiers. (potency)</em></li><li><em>A spell double attack does not benefit from any +spell damage that you have. (ability mod)</em></li><li><em>A spell double attack can not proc spell or item procs.</em></li><li><em>A spell double attack on a dot spell only reapplies the dot, so you only get the benefit of the initial hit twice (not any subsequent ticks).</em></li></ul></blockquote><p>Thank you, that makes more sense...  Looking at the logs, I can see all of those cases... kinda funny in fact to see the initial hit NOT crit, and the DA crit..</p><p>given the amount of DOT dmg summoners do (esp necros) the last one is unfortunate, because the initial hit is usually only 1/6th or so of the total dmg...  but I'm not sure not sure how else you'd  code it from a backend-programming-standpoint... (except maybe to double the number of ticks when a DA hits).</p><p>(now to find an item that converts all DOTs into single-hit/zero-time-frame spells....)</p>