Starter Isles being removed--dear gods, NO!!! [Archive]

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Daine

03-22-2010, 10:39 AM

From a recent dev chat on Allakhazam (http://eq2.zam.com/wiki/Dev_Chat_March_18_2010)Many folks are confused by Brenlo's statement that it is planned to "move away from" Qeynos and Freeport as starting cities. Could you please expand on that?<ul><li>Brenlo: Well when I said that, I had been drinking . . . Seriously though, we plan to only allow new characters to start in the newer player areas. Timorous, Greater Fay, Darklight and Soon Halas. THe new player experience in Qeynos and Freeport are just not up to snuff anymore and do not provide as solid an experience when you enter the game for the first time.</li></ul>NO, NO, and NO! This is a gods-awful idea! Qeynos and Freeport are not only the lore/quest bases of the game, but they are the location for most of the guild halls, and the most efficiently designed cities. The new zones don't provide any backstory on the shipwreck/Darathar, which is the original quest line of the game. If you do this, you are going to lose loyal players. Players are going to be sick and tired of having to start in the new zones and then change alignment to Qeynos/Freeport. I already know one player that will probably leave over this, and she's got three accounts. I don't even play on an RP server and I feel intensely angry about this; I can't imagine the backlash from AB and LDL when they find out that the location for 3/4 of their characters' backstories is gone! Please, if you value the lore and your original players at all, don't do this!

Tuatha

03-22-2010, 10:55 AM

Is this an early Bristlebane day joke? I sure hope so, but if it is, it is not a very good one.The Isle of Refuge (Queen's Colony/Outpost of the Overlord as it is known today) is where I fell in love with this game, some 5 years ago. 99% of my characters came into the world there, and I still start characters there every time I make a new one. I don't care if you don't consider it "up to snuff anymore", I honestly couldn't give a ratonga's backside about the other starter areas.By removing the isle from the game you are robbing my characters of their history and their backstory, and you are destroying the whole experience of going back to the isle for conclusion of the Prismatic series.If you care about your players at all, why remove content which many people still enjoy from the game? What's next, removing all the tier 5 raids from the game because the loot is not "up to snuff"? For the love of jumjum, just revamp the isle quest rewards and add some quests, or just leave the isle as it is, don't take away people's options.Please reconsider, you are making a big mistake.<img src="http://cheesepirate.com/screenshots/tuatha001.jpg" width="1024" height="768" />

Dareena

03-22-2010, 11:21 AM

People have already been discussing this subject in another thread.<a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=474165">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=474165</a>I'm not sure which thread devs are paying attention to, so you might want to make your comments in both threads.Now I personally think that the implied SOE changes are positive. I pity every new player that starts in those hell holes and comes out gimped. I've lost count of how many people I've randomly adopted and had to gear out while they were in their teens and early 20's. Unless you're a veteran, you won't know how to optimize your character advancement. In that regards, Qeynos and Freeport are very real failures by today's standards since they don't walk you through things until the point that new players have a solid foundation of knowledge.I'd also have to say that while the original polarization between Freeport and Qeynos made sense for the game at launch, it really doesn't fit the current tone of EQ2. Short of deity choices and the occassional city guard issue, alignment really doesn't matter in EQ2 any more. We're all just one big quasi-disfunctional family as we unite against greater threats. In that context, the current day EQ2 doesn't really fit well with the tone of the original cities. While it would be kind of a waste if these areas were left to rot, I would love to see those regions revamped similar to what SOE did to Lavastorm.

Detor

03-22-2010, 11:32 AM

I think it would be better to make Freeport/Qeynos more obscure choices rather than eliminate them as choices at all. Maybe a little checkmark box in the bottom cornor somewhere that a veteran player can know to click to 're-enable' the ability to choose Qeynos/Freeport. Nonveteran players generally will shy away from clicking things they don't know anything about, so they'll end up in one of the new cities like you want while not taking choices away from older players.

Tuatha

03-22-2010, 11:32 AM

<div><a href="../user/profile.m?user_id=316562">Dareena</a></div> Joined: Mar 12, 2008Yeah, I wouldn't expect you to understand or care.

Daine

03-22-2010, 11:39 AM

While I hate the idea of people being afraid to choose Qeynos/Freeport for their first toon, I'd rather see that tickbox to enable/disable it than for it to go away entirely. The first time I logged on to EQ2 on those islands, I was approached by a guide that I didn't even know how to respond to. I finally figured it out and barely caught him before he ran away (probably thinking I was ninja afk or a bot). From that encounter I got milk, cookies, and an appreciation for the lore and roleplaying this game has to offer. Going back to the island to do Prismatic was such a nostalgic trip. The islands need to stay in so players can have the option to go back and see what the heck Darathar and Nagafen are talking about <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

vexation

03-22-2010, 11:54 AM

<cite>foozlesprite wrote:</cite><blockquote>While I hate the idea of people being afraid to choose Qeynos/Freeport for their first toon, I'd rather see that tickbox to enable/disable it than for it to go away entirely. The first time I logged on to EQ2 on those islands, I was approached by a guide that I didn't even know how to respond to. I finally figured it out and barely caught him before he ran away (probably thinking I was ninja afk or a bot). From that encounter I got milk, cookies, and an appreciation for the lore and roleplaying this game has to offer. Going back to the island to do Prismatic was such a nostalgic trip. The islands need to stay in so players can have the option to go back and see what the heck Darathar and Nagafen are talking about <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>I remember when I first started (around RoK) I rolled a toon in Qeynos and whilst I enjoyed it, I later rolled a toon in TD and was amazed at how much better the quests and rewards were.I don't want to see them go away (as you say, it renders the prismatic line meaningless in some respects and i'm TIRED of SOE destroying old content a'la Kaladim) personally I think they should just make it very VERY clear that they are old content zones and that DLW / TD / Halas etc will provide a better experience.

Dareena

03-22-2010, 11:58 AM

<cite>Tuatha@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote><div><a href="../user/profile.m?user_id=316562">Dareena</a></div>Joined: Mar 12, 2008Yeah, I wouldn't expect you to understand or care.</blockquote>Of course I don't care. One night after heavy drinking, a friend managed to coerce me into playing the original EQ2. As in, before the 1st expansion ever came out. Even drunk, I couldn't stand the play that piece of junk for more than 20 minutes. You couldn't pay me to touch that original game.But perhaps it's the fact that you don't get it. EQ2 2010 is not the same as EQ2 Launch. Some things are blatantly obvious. Shared xp debt, shard runs, crafting, etc. Others are still very clear, but a touch subtle. People run around grouped together regardless of alignment. There is no real Good vs Evil theme in EQ2 any more. I don't know why some people claim it's still there. The current theme of EQ2 is Heroes (Qeynos) and Anti-Heroes (Freeport) vs Greater Evil (that threatens everyone). In this current climate, the antiquated Good vs Evil theme that's still in those starter cities just doesn't make any sense.People like the original starter cities because of a sense of nostalgia. They played EQ1 and it's those cities bring back fond memories. When EQ2 launched, it made sense to play off that emotion since the game was designed to poach much of its audience from EQ1. But in today's environment, your average person starting EQ2 isn't going to be someone who just left EQ1. These new players have no idea of the context of two long spanning games and everything which has come to pass. All that care about is that the game makes enough sense for them to follow and that it's fun to play. In those categories, the original cities are a complete failure.In order to save the starter cities, they would have to be completely revamped in a manner which would make them flow like the TD quest line. But even if SOE does that, then they're stuck. If the starter cities are left as they are, then SOE has failed their new customers. Or if they do revamp that cities, then they'll end up hacking off the old school nostalgia people who love those areas "as is". No matter which road SOE takes, they're between a rock and a hard place. Let alone the fact that a complete revamp of the starter cities from the group up would take an extreme amount of time and resources.Given the situation, it's very logical for them to move away from the original starter cities. Between customer burn out and new games coming out all of the time, SOE won't be able to keep all of their existing subscribers forever. It's inevitable that people will leave. In order to replace those leaving (and theoretically expand those coming to EQ2), SOE has to make EQ2 more user friendly and attractive for new players. I'm interested to see what SOE has up their sleeve as they move towards their new goals.

Gladiolus

03-22-2010, 11:59 AM

<cite>Dareena@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>Now I personally think that the implied SOE changes are positive. I pity every new player that starts in those hell holes and comes out gimped. I've lost count of how many people I've randomly adopted and had to gear out while they were in their teens and early 20's. Unless you're a veteran, you won't know how to optimize your character advancement. In that regards, Qeynos and Freeport are very real failures by today's standards since they don't walk you through things until the point that new players have a solid foundation of knowledge.</blockquote>If you're the type of player that looks only for the quickest way to level cap and whatever's currently considered the "best" items, and aren't capable of exploring and need someone to "walk you through things" then yes, the way things are going will suit you, at least for the first week, after which you'll be bored. Most of us don't play that way, and I see absolutely nothing positive in removing the Isle of Refuge, which only went out of fashion when Timorous Deep opened and all the quest rewards and drops there were completely out of line with everything else. They keep telling us that they're doing things to give us more choices. How they accomplish that by taking out the best starting places is a mystery.

Tuatha

03-22-2010, 12:09 PM

<cite>Dareena@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>But perhaps it's the fact that you don't get it. EQ2 2010 is not the same as EQ2 Launch.</blockquote>Unlike you, I've actually been here for the whole time, shared xp debt, access quests for fallen gate etc, and I have witnessed the changes as they were happening.Just because you don't care about lore and all that roleplaying junk doesn't mean they should remove locations which are important to a lot of people from the game.

Dareena

03-22-2010, 12:17 PM

<cite>Gladiolus wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dareena@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>Now I personally think that the implied SOE changes are positive. I pity every new player that starts in those hell holes and comes out gimped. I've lost count of how many people I've randomly adopted and had to gear out while they were in their teens and early 20's. Unless you're a veteran, you won't know how to optimize your character advancement. In that regards, Qeynos and Freeport are very real failures by today's standards since they don't walk you through things until the point that new players have a solid foundation of knowledge.</blockquote>If you're the type of player that looks only for the quickest way to level cap and whatever's currently considered the "best" items, and aren't capable of exploring and need someone to "walk you through things" then yes, the way things are going will suit you, at least for the first week, after which you'll be bored. Most of us don't play that way, and I see absolutely nothing positive in removing the Isle of Refuge, which only went out of fashion when Timorous Deep opened and all the quest rewards and drops there were completely out of line with everything else. They keep telling us that they're doing things to give us more choices. How they accomplish that by taking out the best starting places is a mystery.</blockquote>Do you have any idea how many people I've had to rescue? They start asking questions in chat about why they can't kill things or why they always run out of power. After a wave of Tells back and forth, I get to the same zone as them as finally Inspect them. Gee, imagine my surprise. They're 16th level, yet have armor pieces back from single digit levels. Their weapon is 5-10 levels lower than them (with a horrible delay). Sometimes they don't even have every jewelry slot filled. On average, at least 1/2 their gear is completely worthless for their current level. Is it any surprise that they're getting extremely frustrated?Then the burden falls on my shoulders. People keep buying up the low level Treasured stuff for Transmuting. And since I've haven't leveled up an Armorer yet (which is now on my To Do list), I'd have to spend 2p+ per armor piece since Handcrafted stuff usually isn't on the broker either at the low levels. I mean, let's say that the new player realizes that they're wearing junk. How can they correct this? They obviously can't buy the pieces they need, so what are they going to do? Go to Timorous Deep and start on the middle island's chain which is set for level 10? While this will slowly fix their problems, being forced to grind through Green quest content in order to be appropriately geared for your level isn't very fun. Nor does your average new player understand that this solution is even available to them.This is my point. I shouldn't have to play the role of guardian angel for LDL. It shouldn't be my calling to completely rescue at least one person a month, gear them out, teach them about basic game mechanics, and help them find a newbie friendly guild. That's honestly asking a lot of me as a player. While it isn't an extreme chunk of time, spending a couple of hours (per person) for community service isn't something that SOE should make me feel obligated to do. So while I could just blow these new players off and do my own thing, is that any better? People are being thrown into the deep end of the pool and being left to sink or swim. Learn to swim and survive in EQ2 or drown and get lost. Those are their choices.Let alone the Trial accounts. I mean, I can't even see lost questions in 1-9 while I'm running around the end game. Being restricted to OOC postings and not even being able to recieve gear donations, these Trial players (who are the majority of those trying EQ2) are completely stuck. They aren't guided by the game and can't even get help. What are they to do? This is the main issue which SOE is trying to combat. I personally applaud SOE for trying to make positive steps foward as they try to actually make this game a positive experience for new players.

Dareena

03-22-2010, 12:33 PM

<cite>Tuatha@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dareena@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>But perhaps it's the fact that you don't get it. EQ2 2010 is not the same as EQ2 Launch.</blockquote>Unlike you, I've actually been here for the whole time, shared xp debt, access quests for fallen gate etc, and I have witnessed the changes as they were happening.Just because you don't care about lore and all that roleplaying junk doesn't mean they should remove locations which are important to a lot of people from the game.</blockquote>On some level, I really do get where you're coming from. But on the other hand, at what point does it matter? I mean, I work in the construction industry. 20 years ago, people couldn't email quotes and couldn't always fax them either. There weren't computer assisted tools for helping people quickly do item and length counts on blueprints. If a job was getting close to bidding, they've have to hand deliver quotes or verbalize them by phone. The construction industry of 2010 is vastly different from when my company's owners founded it 30 years ago. Most of the history and evolution of the industry will be lost on me. They can go into the "back in my day" stories, but I have no real way to relate to them. Nor do they truly have an relevancely in today's world. Our job environment has even drastically changed during the 5 years which I've been a part of it. People today work differently and expect different things from what they did 5 years ago. Things change and life moves on.Now apply that to EQ2. I can get that you appreciate where things came from. You can go into the "back in my day" speeches. But let's be honest. How much of the original EQ2 is really relevant these days? Not much. The needs and desires of players have changed. Yes, there are some new players that get genuinely hooked onto EQ2 because of it's vast treasure trove of old world lore. However these players are the minority. Unless people look online at sites like Wiki, they don't have a coherent road map. (I've always considered any game which requires independent online research to even start the game to be a failure.) So they start in a city based on the Character Generator. Based on the city notes there, Freeport and Qeynos make the most sense since they're listed as the main cities. However the main cities are also the worst choices for new players. Isn't that kind of ironic?Now some people in these various threads have suggested some kind of blood red WARNING disclaimer message whenever a player tries to start in the original cities. Perhaps that would be sufficient. But as things stand, the game is weighted into tricking new players to start in the worst possible situations. That doesn't seem like a smart move towards customer retention.

Daine

03-22-2010, 12:40 PM

So, implement the checkbox idea, or revamp the zones (they already have the art and quest ideas, just beef up the gear, maybe add a few quests to fill out more slots). Strong warnings that these areas don't gear up a first toon well, or something. But why remove them entirely?Take a look at the map here: <a href="http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/File:Eq2norrathmap.jpg" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/File:Eq2norrathmap.jpg</a>The Golden Path already makes it so people don't see half of what's on that map as they level. Now they're going a step further from removing those zones from the spotlight, they are removing some entirely. I thought the point of paying for an MMO was to see them add new content, not delete old content in favor of the shiny new zone of the year. Don't get me wrong, I feel your pain and I've outfitted a few newbies myself, but there's no sense completely removing content that can easily have a warning label slapped over it for new players if really needed =/

Yimway

03-22-2010, 02:15 PM

Seriously burns them to the ground, this lore and design doesn't mesh with the current state of the game anyway.The idea that you'd lose subs over this is laughable.You lose far more subs from new players starting out in these sub-par regions and leaving the game before they experience the better areas.

Arbreth

03-22-2010, 02:25 PM

Removing the starter isles is a bad idea, renovating them is what should happen.BRENLO!! Want to know why I do not play SWG? The quests, when you can find them, are AWFUL! Do not do that to us here at EQ2. That whole path thing over there is, well I don't have words for it, but bleah. I will confess that I have not done any part of the Golden Path here, yet, not on live or Test, and have been holding out my last alt spot for Halas. I have started characters in each of the other locations and G'Fay is my absolute least favorite and while TD gets you the loot, it does become boring quick. I started on the original Isle of Refuge and miss the way it worked, once they split them it lost something major.And yes, I too have helped newcomers gear up after coming off the isles, but they also are the ones that seem to enjoy the parts of the game that do not have you rushing headlong towards 90 and wondering where all the content was when you get there.Bah! My point is, the Isles need help, not tearing down, Qeynos and Freeport need to finally get repaired not abandoned.

Cynith

03-22-2010, 02:42 PM

I have to say I'm in agreement with people who don't want to be forced to start new "alts" in these new areas. This is not about the lore or history of my character - though I do have those areas worked into my roleplay past. I want my alts in Qeynos or Freeport - those are the cities I prefer. I don't want to have to start somewhere out in the wild and work my way to an out-of-the-way city just to have to switch citizenship to get back to where I want to be - the hub of all my activity.A checkbox for new character creation would be ideal, defaulting to one of the new starter areas - but I would not in any way be offended if they revamped the old world starter areas to put them more in line with easy progression for those who don't wish to take the golden path.

Jihanna

03-22-2010, 03:02 PM

<cite>Dareena@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gladiolus wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dareena@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>Now I personally think that the implied SOE changes are positive. I pity every new player that starts in those hell holes and comes out gimped. I've lost count of how many people I've randomly adopted and had to gear out while they were in their teens and early 20's. Unless you're a veteran, you won't know how to optimize your character advancement. In that regards, Qeynos and Freeport are very real failures by today's standards since they don't walk you through things until the point that new players have a solid foundation of knowledge.</blockquote>If you're the type of player that looks only for the quickest way to level cap and whatever's currently considered the "best" items, and aren't capable of exploring and need someone to "walk you through things" then yes, the way things are going will suit you, at least for the first week, after which you'll be bored. Most of us don't play that way, and I see absolutely nothing positive in removing the Isle of Refuge, which only went out of fashion when Timorous Deep opened and all the quest rewards and drops there were completely out of line with everything else. They keep telling us that they're doing things to give us more choices. How they accomplish that by taking out the best starting places is a mystery.</blockquote>Do you have any idea how many people I've had to rescue? They start asking questions in chat about why they can't kill things or why they always run out of power. After a wave of Tells back and forth, I get to the same zone as them as finally Inspect them. Gee, imagine my surprise. They're 16th level, yet have armor pieces back from single digit levels. Their weapon is 5-10 levels lower than them (with a horrible delay). Sometimes they don't even have every jewelry slot filled. On average, at least 1/2 their gear is completely worthless for their current level. Is it any surprise that they're getting extremely frustrated?Then the burden falls on my shoulders. People keep buying up the low level Treasured stuff for Transmuting. And since I've haven't leveled up an Armorer yet (which is now on my To Do list), I'd have to spend 2p+ per armor piece since Handcrafted stuff usually isn't on the broker either at the low levels. I mean, let's say that the new player realizes that they're wearing junk. How can they correct this? They obviously can't buy the pieces they need, so what are they going to do? Go to Timorous Deep and start on the middle island's chain which is set for level 10? While this will slowly fix their problems, being forced to grind through Green quest content in order to be appropriately geared for your level isn't very fun. Nor does your average new player understand that this solution is even available to them.This is my point. I shouldn't have to play the role of guardian angel for LDL. It shouldn't be my calling to completely rescue at least one person a month, gear them out, teach them about basic game mechanics, and help them find a newbie friendly guild. That's honestly asking a lot of me as a player. While it isn't an extreme chunk of time, spending a couple of hours (per person) for community service isn't something that SOE should make me feel obligated to do. So while I could just blow these new players off and do my own thing, is that any better? People are being thrown into the deep end of the pool and being left to sink or swim. Learn to swim and survive in EQ2 or drown and get lost. Those are their choices.Let alone the Trial accounts. I mean, I can't even see lost questions in 1-9 while I'm running around the end game. Being restricted to OOC postings and not even being able to recieve gear donations, these Trial players (who are the majority of those trying EQ2) are completely stuck. They aren't guided by the game and can't even get help. What are they to do? This is the main issue which SOE is trying to combat. I personally applaud SOE for trying to make positive steps foward as they try to actually make this game a positive experience for new players.</blockquote>So you think that by having those people start in other places, they will have a better grasp on the game and how to upgrade gear and such? I highly doubt where they start makes any difference to how they learn the game. For those of us that have been around since the beginning (and even more so those of us that came from EQ1), the lore is important and the nostalgia is nice. I want to have the option to start there if I so choose. Honestly, I'm more than a little put off by your apparent sense of martyrdom. You aren't the only helpful person in EQ2. And no one is forcing you to be helpful. Removing the starter islands isn't going to make people need help any less. As it stands right now, I can still hail from Gorowyn, Neriak or Kelethin. Starting in those places doesn't make someone magically learn everything at once.One key...actually reading the tutorial notes as they pop up. Funny how all those little ?'s when you first start tell you all about outgrowing gear and mob cons and how to equip stuff, huh?~Dexilie - 83 Inquisitor, 90 Carpenter (Arasai) "I don't heal, I decorate!!!"~Krissalya - 90 Troubador, 90 Tailor (Fae) "So what if I'm squooshie! You still love me! Rez please??"~Jihanna - 71 Ranger, 90 Provisioner (Wood Elf) "To writ or not to writ! That is the question!"~Bralia - 80 Shadowknight, Budding Alchemist (Barbarian) "Kill!"

Tehom

03-22-2010, 03:05 PM

Simplest solution is to let you start in the starter isles on any but your first character on the account, or after you have one character over some chosen level threshold. That way you can have veteran players start in the areas they prefer, while true new players are funneled through the most positive play experience.

NrthnStar5

03-22-2010, 03:34 PM

I agree, they should not be removed. However, I completely disagree with the complete disregard these zones have had since the new starting areas have launched over the years. I understand all points of view, from those who feel that they should not be removed, to those that feel that are not relevant anymore. I do not think the answer is to remove them, nor do I think we should put a warning or an option and leave the areas as is. Those are the lazy ways. These need revamped, plain and system. I understand this takes time and effort on the dev's time, but I think it would be well worth it. I think they should revamp it somewhat like this :1.)Expand the isles. Right now I think it's a little too small, and feels very.... Playground-y. Open them up a bit, make them feel a bit more expansive, even if it is just done through draw distances. I think it'd be cool to see far off either Qeynos or Freeport way off in the distance.2.) Differentiate the isles more. Make them feel different based on the city, give them each unique quests and lore, individual environments. 3.) Make the isle a 1-10 starting area, instead of the odd 1-7 or 8 levels it gives you now. 4.) Take away the below level 10 quests once reaching the city, and only incorporate a few level 10 quests to show you around the city and such. 5.) Utilize the zones around the city (Peat Bog, The Caves etc.) to provide minimal quests, just enough to get you to maybe level 13 and provide you with a decent set of armor before setting out into Antonica.6.) Antonica would still be a 10-20 zone, with maybe a some revamps for progression reasons. 7.) Obviously, all rewards should be modified to be in line with the newer starting zones. 8.) Merge the city! Perfect time to merge the cities into one zone, or at least merge them into much fewer zones. This is my rough draft of how they need to revamp. These cities are important for lore, environment, and RP reasons. I did not play eq1 but I still know the significance of these cities and their leaders.

Dareena

03-22-2010, 03:47 PM

<cite>Jihanna wrote:</cite><blockquote>So you think that by having those people start in other places, they will have a better grasp on the game and how to upgrade gear and such? I highly doubt where they start makes any difference to how they learn the game. For those of us that have been around since the beginning (and even more so those of us that came from EQ1), the lore is important and the nostalgia is nice. I want to have the option to start there if I so choose. Honestly, I'm more than a little put off by your apparent sense of martyrdom. You aren't the only helpful person in EQ2. And no one is forcing you to be helpful. Removing the starter islands isn't going to make people need help any less. As it stands right now, I can still hail from Gorowyn, Neriak or Kelethin. Starting in those places doesn't make someone magically learn everything at once.One key...actually reading the tutorial notes as they pop up. Funny how all those little ?'s when you first start tell you all about outgrowing gear and mob cons and how to equip stuff, huh?</blockquote>The point of a starter area is to hand hold the ignorant. Yes, some of the ? boxes are useful if you read them all. I've always been rather fond of the Crafting tutorial chain. Those introductory quests walk you through the world of crafting up until 10th and are pretty easy to understand as a newer player.But then we get to the more important issues. What ability stats do I care about for my class? More specifically, which stat increases show a tangible benefit as opposed to an almost worthless benefit? (For example, Wisdom for scouts comes to mind.) Do dps stat ability increases out weigh survival stat increases? While we're on the subject, which special ability stats are valueable for my class? How about an in depth discussion between the costs and benefits between different weapon delays? Do we ever address timing your auto attacks? Why is it bad to just use Apprentice abilities and how can you upgrade them cost effectively?Or broker philosophies. Do people know to never vendor trash their Treasured items? What's the average price for low level broker items that are bought by Transmuters? Is it explained that you can place a physical copy of a broker box in your home via a Market Board? Why doesn't Veteran Rewards give out a low slot broker box?Or even general utility information would be useful. What are the names of the current top tier common crafted bags, boxes, and broker containers? (These will have the most competitive pricing and the best cost vs benefit.) What's a suggested AA slider setting? When should you buy and use adornments?----------The point is that there's a lot of valueable information in EQ2 that seperates a veteran from a beginner. Even with online resources, there really isn't a good one stop shop page that gives it all as a crash course. We certainly don't have all of that listed in the game. There in lies my issues with the starter zones. Thankfully the newer zones like TD have very good itemization. Even if you don't know exactly what's good and what's bad, the itemization of that chain forces good gear down your throat. It provides players with enough padding to make them decently strong and durable even if they spam their CA/Spells and only use Apprentice abilities. Then while they're stumbling around, they can find the time to experiment with different AA and gear set ups.Old world starting zones don't do that. I still remember finding a 14th Qeynos Pally who was wielding a 7th lvl 1.6 delay 1-hander. It has a very low delay, so doesn't that mean that it's very good? What, I'm actually supposed to see ability increases on my average weapon? They're so new, they don't even have a firm grasp on what the base line is for "normal" gear for their level. If they did know, then they could do something about it. But they don't, which causes them issues.The only reason that I survived through my newbie infancy was through the help of a couple of people I knew who played the game. Neither were stellar players, but they still knew far more than I did and helped to guide me around some of the newbie pitfalls. Even learning EQ2 in the TD chain, I had a lot of stumbling. If my friends weren't there to shepard me, I would have flaked out on the game and never became the player that I am today.It is with that in mind that I give back. To be honest, EQ2 stinks for introducing a new player to the game. Now the newer starting zones drop them into the shallow end of the pool (instead of the deep end like the original zones), but it still doesn't teach them how to swim. There is no real instructor. Survival of the fittest kicks in, which is what I have an issue with. People try this game mostly through the Trial system. How are they every going to know what to do or where to go? We never see just how many people do the Trial since high level players don't hang in the starting zones to answer OOC questions. EQ2 constantly loses the opportunity to get new subscibers because SOE doesn't make much of an effort to retain and entice these Trial players (in my opinion).Was your own experience that different from my own? If so, then congratulations. But from all of the people that I've talked to over my couple of years here, my experience seems to be a common one. So if we don't help our players out, then who will? Certainly not SOE.

Aurel

03-22-2010, 04:39 PM

People who don't care, won't care no matter how much back-and-forth goes back and forth; and the people who do care, will similarly continue to care. It's very, very hard to change someone's mind on something that for those that love the isles, is a deep-seated love and affection.Personally, I can't stand the newer starter locations at all. Perhaps this is a fault on their part, or perhaps this is unrelated to them entirely and strictly due to my affection for Qeynos and Freeport and their suburbs and starter islands. I also miss the starting boatride and the subclass and citizenship quests! Were those fun, or what? d:Really... I just want the book that is hiding on Queen's Colony and just needs a kind dev to slip in, relink it to the quest it comes from and the quest it offers... *innocent whistle*

Valdaglerion

03-22-2010, 06:26 PM

Will be a sad day indeed.How about brining them up to snuff with the newer areas rather than once again removing content from the game?

Katz

03-22-2010, 06:59 PM

I've started 6 out of 11 toons on one of the 2 starter islands. I started playing in 2008. I would hate to see them removed from the game. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" />

Kiara

03-22-2010, 07:01 PM

<cite>Dareena@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>People have already been discussing this subject in another thread.<a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=474165">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=474165</a>I'm not sure which thread devs are paying attention to, so you might want to make your comments in both threads.</blockquote>Actually... One would be better served to post in a single solitary thread.Since the other was started first, let's keep it all there, shall we?Having multiple threads pop up on the same subject and people posting across all of them, tends to make feedback sticky and difficult to gather.Thanks!