EQII Developer Chat March 18, 2010 [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

Thunderthyze

03-19-2010, 06:50 AM

I have read the chat log and would like to make the following considered observations.Some time ago SOE stated that there was going to be more interraction between the developers and the community. I presume that they think these "group hugfests" go some way to deliver on that promise? As I understand the procedure, the questions are submitted beforehand, SOE are made aware of the content of the questions and there is only time for a small proportion of those questions to be asked?The problem I see in this process is that you end up having only very generalised questions asked so that short answers can be given, basically, yes, no or possibly. There is no possibility of follow up questions and no chance for a discussion on hot topics presumably for fear of the chat breaching the "PG" rating.I would prefer (and I think it would be more rewarding) if fewer questions were proposed and more chance of discussion available. I think that SOE need to stop thinking of the community as "the enemy" and realise that we are just as (probably more) eager to get the problems ironed out, and the gameplay made more enjoyable, than they are as we are the people who pay to play the product. I don't think that it any accident that CCP's EVE last year won awards for the best community AND best game. It is the community that ends up making the game. No community and the game may as well become a solo offline game like Oblivion.I would suggest that the dev team makes more use of the hugely knowledgable resource they have in the subscriber base and forge links with it on this forum and others in order to to develop a synergistic approach to game development, rather than setting up "dev chats" that just ticks boxes and provides no benefits to either party.

Brook

03-19-2010, 07:32 AM

Brenlo: Well when I said that, I had been drinking . . . Seriously though, we plan to only allow new characters to start in the newer player areas. Timorous, Greater Fay, Darklight and Soon Halas. THe new player experience in Qeynos and Freeport are just not up to snuff anymore and do not provide as solid an experience when you enter the game for the first timeSince we are not allowed to have polls on the forums here I would strongly suggest you put one up concerning this. We were told by Kiarra that with the changes of your new "Golden Path" that we would not have things removed from the game yet here it is.If this is the "Golden Path" you spoke of then it sucks and we were lied to. Since you are all a collective team that works on things and decides things together that would place you all to blame for it except the messenger. I dont know about you, but I wouldn't want that kind of rep attached to my name because it makes employers think twice when you go looking for your next job.

Thunderthyze

03-19-2010, 07:54 AM

Responding to a question about trying to alleviate lag on AB server the following answer was offered:Rothgar: Long term we want to do something about the population. We don't want to restrict where you can transfer to, so we're going to try to make some of the other servers more desirable by considering some mergers to increase their populations as well. In other words what you seem to be saying is "Lag is due to server population. We can't think of a way to reduce lag by restricting the AB population so we are going to increase the population on other servers (via mergers) to equalise the lag and make it appear AB is no longer as bad when, in reality, it will be just the lag on other servers that will become correspondingly higher".You cannot seriously think that this is a valid option?

dawy

03-19-2010, 08:10 AM

<cite>Kalyyn@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote>Surely with all the problems in the game at the moment, the developers time would be better spent actually working on the game we pay to play rather than participating in these chats where, with every chat, we get less and less answers to questions that people actually care about. This chat was yet another full of 'not answers', 'maybes' and 'wait and see's'. Although the frivolity is amusing I would much rather see answers to just one or two of the big questions being asked by the community.</blockquote>Good post and one thats hard to disagree with

Deson

03-19-2010, 08:43 AM

<cite>Whilhelmina@Storms wrote:</cite><blockquote>Well, thanks for the chat and thanks for the forwarding of thoe very bad news from Brenlo <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /><blockquote>Brenlo: Well when I said that, I had been drinking . . . Seriously though, we plan to only allow new characters to start in the newer player areas. Timorous, Greater Fay, Darklight and Soon Halas. THe new player experience in Qeynos and Freeport are just not up to snuff anymore and do not provide as solid an experience when you enter the game for the first time</blockquote></blockquote><cite>Brook wrote:</cite><blockquote>Brenlo: Well when I said that, I had been drinking . . . Seriously though, we plan to only allow new characters to start in the newer player areas. Timorous, Greater Fay, Darklight and Soon Halas. THe new player experience in Qeynos and Freeport are just not up to snuff anymore and do not provide as solid an experience when you enter the game for the first timeSince we are not allowed to have polls on the forums here I would strongly suggest you put one up concerning this. We were told by Kiarra that with the changes of your new "Golden Path" that we would not have things removed from the game yet here it is.If this is the "Golden Path" you spoke of then it sucks and we were lied to. Since you are all a collective team that works on things and decides things together that would place you all to blame for it except the messenger. I dont know about you, but I wouldn't want that kind of rep attached to my name because it makes employers think twice when you go looking for your next job.</blockquote>+1 to both of these. I'm still upset at all the flavor FP lost the first newbie revampS and will sorely miss the option of burning people alive or starting on the newbie isle at all. I look at it as Freeport boot camp and really find the other newbie starters more annoying than anything else. A revamp is preferable to outright removal as suggested here and would strongly suggest a rethink of this move for a game that depends fairly heavily on lore and continuity.And if that doesn't work...OH LOOK! A DRAGON!

Jupios

03-19-2010, 11:16 AM

I'm gonna guess the removal of Qeynos and Freeport as starting areas will be linked to future events where these cities are destroyed or something. While It seems an interesting story, one that would certainly emotionally involve some of us who are very attached to these places, it kinda makes me sad. I love Qeynos. The first time I entered that place and looked up at its towering spires is something I'll never forget. The wow factor of that moment as a noob is something that is very special. It stuck with me over the years, and has been a measuring post for other games for me. Nothing has come close. Maybe its an old mans nostalgia, heck I miss the noob boat ride from way back. (loved bumping into the npc's from that boat in Mara).Cant really say weather I disagree or not. I just dont have enough info to decide so Ill just have to wait and see how it pans out./end rambling

Aurel

03-19-2010, 11:26 AM

Okay... If you all are getting rid of Queen's Colony and Outpost of the Overlord..A) Put Guidebook to the Queen's Colony back in game before they're removedorB) Give us a live event where a book washes mysteriously up on Antonica / Commonlands beach... Guidebook to the Queen's Colony and Aqueous Research Notebook (turned into a real book), respectively... *grin*orC) Put Guidebook back and do the live event but put Feeding the Guurok in the Guidebook's place for the event.I like C best... gives 3 books, and an in memoriam of the islands we have such fond memories of *nodnodnod*

Jesdyr

03-19-2010, 11:34 AM

You and your books ...I think they need to put in an option to just start in the city (FP/Q) for experianced players.

Finora

03-19-2010, 11:42 AM

Jeeshman

03-19-2010, 11:51 AM

<blockquote>Brenlo: Well when I said that, I had been drinking . . . Seriously though, we plan to only allow new characters to start in the newer player areas. Timorous, Greater Fay, Darklight and Soon Halas. THe new player experience in Qeynos and Freeport are just not up to snuff anymore and do not provide as solid an experience when you enter the game for the first time</blockquote>Won't this just push all new players away from living in Queynos or Freeport, thereby making the two "main" cities even more deserted than they are presently? That alone makes this the worst idea I've heard since shrimp-flavored ice cream.Instead of removing the zones we all remember and love from the first minute many of us logged in a toon, how about spending the time to improve them instead of removing them entirely? I just don't understand the reasoning here. If the problem is the number of separate zones that exist in Queynos and Freeport, then merge them into one larger zone, don't marginalize the very thing that the original concept of the game is based upon (followers of Antonia vs. followers of Lucan).

Dareena

03-19-2010, 12:04 PM

<cite>Shaydu@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>Won't this just push all new players away from living in Queynos or Freeport, thereby making the two "main" cities even more deserted than they are presently? That alone makes this the worst idea I've heard since shrimp-flavored ice cream.Instead of removing the zones we all remember and love from the first minute many of us logged in a toon, how about spending the time to improve them instead of removing them entirely? I just don't understand the reasoning here. If the problem is the number of separate zones that exist in Queynos and Freeport, then merge them into one larger zone, don't marginalize the very thing that the original concept of the game is based upon (followers of Antonia vs. followers of Lucan).</blockquote>The game has really changed since its original roots. Right or wrong, it is very different. One night when I was rather drunk, a friend finally managed to coerce me to sit down and play the original EQ2 (before any expansions had been released). After about 15 minutes, I felt the need to gouge my eyes out and wouldn't touch that game with a 10 ft pole. But now, the tone and flow of game play has really changed. The original set ups of Freeport and Qeynos no longer with in the current tone of EQ2. Having people randomly spread through a vast number of main city and sub city zones isn't positive. No is it positive to have people run all over Antonica or Commonlands to level up to 20th.As a new school EQ2 player, it's always been my view that Qeynos and Freeport are broken. To this day, I take pains to avoid those cities as much as possible (besides the occassional broker seller visit). Though to be fair, I know a lot of the old school players feel the same way about Kelethin and Gorowyn due to their 3-D layouts.Also the old school environment was extremely polarized between the classes, gods, and cities. But in today's environment, only your deity choices still savagely cling to the old alignment set up. In the current environment, Freeport and Qeynos just don't make sense thematically.But no matter how you want to cut it, the current versions of the original starting cities aren't very functional. This means that they either need to be revamped from the ground up for a revised newbie experience or they need to be completely revamped as a source of new upper level content. I could see the focus on an entire GU being made around these cities much like how LS was revamped to introduce the Sootfoot and WoE content chains. Personally speaking, I would prefer the later scenerio and really look forward to seeing what SOE can do.

Aurel

03-19-2010, 01:00 PM

<cite>Jesdyr@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>You and your books ...</blockquote>I'm confused... The way you word that suggests something else exists in this game? *innocent blink*

Deadeyes

03-19-2010, 01:53 PM

Do not take content away from your customers.Chat did not cover any questions that the majority of forum goers have been asking, besides Halas.

Savanja

03-19-2010, 02:51 PM

<cite>Jupios@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm gonna guess the removal of Qeynos and Freeport as starting areas will be linked to future events where these cities are destroyed or something. While It seems an interesting story, one that would certainly emotionally involve some of us who are very attached to these places, it kinda makes me sad. I love Qeynos. The first time I entered that place and looked up at its towering spires is something I'll never forget. The wow factor of that moment as a noob is something that is very special. It stuck with me over the years, and has been a measuring post for other games for me. Nothing has come close. Maybe its an old mans nostalgia, heck I miss the noob boat ride from way back. (loved bumping into the npc's from that boat in Mara).Cant really say weather I disagree or not. I just dont have enough info to decide so Ill just have to wait and see how it pans out./end rambling</blockquote>Are the cities being removed or just the newbie islands, Queen's Colony and Overlord's Outpost? It has been a while since I've played a character through the lower levels in Qeynos of Freeport because the progression is kind of poor, however the cities are a major point in the game.

Calthine

03-19-2010, 05:01 PM

<cite>Deadeyes wrote:</cite><blockquote>Chat did not cover any questions that the majority of forum goers have been asking, besides Halas.</blockquote>All the questions were submitted by players, therefore they are important to someone.

Nayawk

03-19-2010, 05:05 PM

I'm hoping this killing off of the start Isle is not something that is set in stone yet because it is a terrible idea. I love alts and I start alot of them and you couldn't pay me to run them through any of the new starter zones... as a whole they have gotten progressively worse and the only one that is in anyway bearable, DLW, wasn't even done by this dev team.I'm willing to buy that new players might need a helping hand/intro into the game and that this Golden Path idea could help but all you need is a big message flashy on the starter location screen at character selection say "we recommend these 3 starter areas for new players or fast leveling".This game is what it is because of the vast expanse of quest/zones and the huge choice is the selling point as far as I'm concerned. Removing choice is bad, adding choice is good. It's really that simple. How can removing these zones or any other original zones a positive thing? If you direct people to the new areas but still allow for play in the old and only 3 people a week step foot in the isle then I fail to see the down side of how making those 3 customers happy is somehow ruining the game because they aren't 'up to snuff'Don't have the time or will to upgrade the old zones fine, but leave them as they are, don't remove them because they are the best looking in terms of enviroment and will be missed.

Arbreth

03-19-2010, 05:10 PM

I have posted more than once that the Starting isles for Freeport and Qeynos need to be REVAMPED, they should not be removed. Taking away the choice for Freeport or Qeynos to be a starter city is counterproductive to any attempt to revitalize those cities.I for one do not, nor ever did like the starter zone in Greater Fayedark. I love Darklight Woods and Timorous is ok... I am looking forward to seeing Halas though.How, lore wise can you essentially stop new births in what are supposed to be your main capitols?

Armawk

03-19-2010, 06:06 PM

Firstly we need some clarity here. Do you mean simply removing the actual island and leaving everything else as is (so for example, I could start in kelethin or halas and move to qeynos at level 2 or 3 and do oakmyst etc) or do you mean to tear down everything prior to level 10 in the two main city areas, or even possibly go further than that?You have upset a lot of people by letting out a small amount of provocative information without enough information to actually make people feel any confidence in what is happening.I cannot fathom someone actually thinking that reducing content choices is a good thing, I really cannot.

Cynith

03-19-2010, 06:20 PM

Urg yeah - I always start my alts in Qeynos or Freeport - I personally do not like Kelethin, Gorowyn or Neriak as starting cities - Tried them but quickly moved my characters out or rerolled and restarted in Qeynos or Freeport. No idea what New Halas will offer. I am interested in visiting the new areas and doing the all the quests and not even remotely interested in starting/living there.I applaud new choices but I hope they leave the original starter areas as an option for those of us who are not new to the game. Don't know why they couldn't just revamp the content to bring it more in line with their other starter cities. Heck I miss the original starter isle and the boat ride, that's what hooked me on day one of my trial.

Guleipho

03-19-2010, 06:33 PM

Oh, please PLEASE tell me they won't remove FP and Qey.They ARE WHAT MAKE EverQuest! I played EQ1!!Always a rat race to try and be innovative and catch up with other games. A shame.When I get time I'll try and read through the chat log

Jesdyr

03-19-2010, 06:51 PM

If they are worried about the "New player experience" .. then if you select Freeport or Qeynos as a starter, have a pop-up warning window saying it is not recommended for New players to start here.

Vonotar

03-19-2010, 07:28 PM

<cite>Holymoly@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>Responding to a question about trying to alleviate lag on AB server the following answer was offered:Rothgar: Long term we want to do something about the population. We don't want to restrict where you can transfer to, so we're going to try to make some of the other servers more desirable by considering some mergers to increase their populations as well. In other words what you seem to be saying is "Lag is due to server population. We can't think of a way to reduce lag by restricting the AB population so we are going to increase the population on other servers (via mergers) to equalise the lag and make it appear AB is no longer as bad when, in reality, it will be just the lag on other servers that will become correspondingly higher".You cannot seriously think that this is a valid option?</blockquote>I honestly think that is a valid option.Not to equalize lag, obviously, but less "game servers" will mean that the equipment used to power those servers can be distributed better.At the moment we have... what... around 20-odd copies of the zone Antonica running on behalf of all the "game servers" at the moment. Now judging by all the moaning people do about dead servers, and the number of people who keep transferring to AB, merging servers would reduce the number of 'Antonica's needed, and the number of 'Commonlands' etc etc.That's the point of it, a lot of server capacity will be going under-used because they are running multiples of zones which are only busy on a select few servers.Merging "game servers" will mean that less resources are needed for the zones that are always up, and more can be spared for instances, guild halls, homes etc etcThere will still be the same amount of hardware, it will just be distributed better.

Skywarrior

03-19-2010, 07:32 PM

<blockquote><blockquote>Brenlo: Well when I said that, I had been drinking . . . Seriously though, we plan to only allow new characters to start in the newer player areas. Timorous, Greater Fay, Darklight and Soon Halas. THe new player experience in Qeynos and Freeport are just not up to snuff anymore and do not provide as solid an experience when you enter the game for the first time</blockquote></blockquote>Hmmm, well if this is the most controversial subject discussed in the chat and the main issue players seem to be taking out of it then it was indeed a wasted opportunity and not worth reading. Seriously, after starting over 30 characters using every single starting area currently in game, I'd be happy if they just allowed me to start any new character at level 20 or 30 and skip the "new player experience" altogether.New players likely won't care since they won't know any different anyway. Right now when I do create a new character it's almost always in Qeynos or Neriak (depending on alignment) but either way they immediately taken the boat/carpet/grif to Timorous to begin the leveling process. I haven't actually used the Isles in over two years, at least. Nor have I used Antonica/Commonlands quest lines because they are just abysmally time consuming.

Calthine

03-19-2010, 09:17 PM

<cite>Skywarrior wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hmmm, well if this is the most controversial subject discussed in the chat and the main issue players seem to be taking out of it then it was indeed a wasted opportunity and not worth reading.</blockquote>Oh, I dunno. Thre was the change to RA's, what happened to Avatars, why people now get to skip getting their Mythical, the potential for appearance mounts, the potential for future server merges, and a progression server.I think people read the first question and it struck some heart strings.

Thunderthyze

03-20-2010, 04:37 AM

<cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Skywarrior wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hmmm, well if this is the most controversial subject discussed in the chat and the main issue players seem to be taking out of it then it was indeed a wasted opportunity and not worth reading.</blockquote>Oh, I dunno. Thre was the change to RA's, what happened to Avatars, why people now get to skip getting their Mythical, the potential for appearance mounts, the potential for future server merges, and a progression server.I think people read the first question and it struck some heart strings.</blockquote>I would tend to agree with you Calthine (is this the first time?) however "mything" your epic weapon is only a five minute job these days, what with the nerfs to VS and most of VP. The real work remains in getting the fabled version first. I don't have a problem with that tbh.

Aurel

03-20-2010, 07:17 PM

Oy, oy... Something NOT related to books... I'm right in the middle of making a toon to hop over to Qeynos and visit someone's house... If we can't start in Qeynos, this is going to become an annoying task. d: I mean, travel options are fairly varied these days, but if you start in any of the others -- Kelethin, Gorowyn, or Neriak -- you start away from the actual city, so you end up getting to a city first before you can start finding your way to Qeynos/Freeport... *headdesk*

Ansek

03-20-2010, 09:38 PM

I think removing the newbie islands would be a dreadful mistake. I happen to like them both - indeed I MUCH prefer to make goodies on Queen's Colony than Greater Faydark. Neriak I can put up with, but Gorowyn gets very tedious once you've done it the first time. I suspect New Halas will be more Gorowyn than Queen's Colony in structure, unfortunately.Seems to me that SOE are really going for the "new player" but without a serious influx of money for advertising and dev time to actually make sure EQ2 delivers on all the promises made (New Halas being a case in point - and Brenlo's "New Halas is coming in the Mayish time frame... We hope" doesnt bode well for content announced at last years Fan Faire and touted to go live last November. And Lord only knows where Shader 3.0 disappeared to) there won't be any new players.Perhaps its time to stop chasing mythical customers and start catering for the ones they still have, while they do.

dawy

03-20-2010, 10:05 PM

<cite>Ansek wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think removing the newbie islands would be a dreadful mistake. I happen to like them both - indeed I MUCH prefer to make goodies on Queen's Colony than Greater Faydark. Neriak I can put up with, but Gorowyn gets very tedious once you've done it the first time. I suspect New Halas will be more Gorowyn than Queen's Colony in structure, unfortunately.Seems to me that SOE are really going for the "new player" but without a serious influx of money for advertising and dev time to actually make sure EQ2 delivers on all the promises made (New Halas being a case in point - and Brenlo's "New Halas is coming in the Mayish time frame... We hope" doesnt bode well for content announced at last years Fan Faire and touted to go live last November. And Lord only knows where Shader 3.0 disappeared to) there won't be any new players.Perhaps its time to stop chasing mythical customers and start catering for the ones they still have, while they do.</blockquote>Once again good points well made.

Calthine

03-20-2010, 10:09 PM

<cite>Holymoly@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>I would tend to agree with you Calthine (is this the first time?)</blockquote>Could be. I saw Lucan selling sno-cones in Lavastorm....

Daine

03-22-2010, 11:34 AM

I might leave if they remove the starter isles. I don't care if they [Removed for Content] new players, either revamp them or warn people, or something. This is part of lore. This is part of nostalgia. If the polarity between cities is gone, make alignment not matter for all I care. But these zones need to still be options.If you're thinking of opening a progression server, the time for getting new players has passed. Pay attention to those of us that are still here after many years instead of praying to get new players for this game. If I go to a game store and ask for EQ2 all I get is 'huh? oh an MMO, like WoW, sorry we don't have that one, never heard of it.'

Seidhkona

03-22-2010, 01:30 PM

I'm personally hoping for a spiffy announcement about New Halas and preview pictures and all that good stuff.I think they should leave in the starting islands, but guide new players towards the golden path starting areas just by telling them that will be where they will find their best experience.

Thunderthyze

03-22-2010, 01:39 PM

<cite>Sigrdrifa@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm personally hoping for a spiffy announcement about New Halas and preview pictures and all that good stuff.I think they should leave in the starting islands, but guide new players towards the golden path starting areas just by telling them that will be where they will find their best experience.</blockquote>I could live without yet another starter area and instead would prefer the devs and coders to sort out the huge issues introduced by SF. Part of the problem I have with the newer starter cities is that character progression is linear, rather like the quest progressions in RoK and SF. It makes running alts tedious in the extreme as you do it all once then have to do it all again every time with little opportunity to vary the experience. At least in Freeport and Qeynos you were able to get a character developed in countless ways.Stop re-inventing the wheel and sort out the huge issues besetting the game at the moment. Lag and zoning crashes will kill this game surer than anything unless you sort it out now.

Calthine

03-22-2010, 01:41 PM

<cite>Holymoly@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>Part of the problem I have with the newer starter cities is that character progression is linear, rather like the quest progressions in RoK and SF. It makes running alts tedious in the extreme as you do it all once then have to do it all again every time with little opportunity to vary the experience. At least in Freeport and Qeynos you were able to get a character developed in countless ways.</blockquote>This is the second time we've agreed. It's officially the Apocalypse.

Cusashorn

03-22-2010, 07:23 PM

Removing the newbie islands for Qeynos and Freeport makes no sense. Even if the Darathar storyline is no longer of importance to tell to the player, it still set it up for anyone who really wants to get into the lore of the game and at least try to experience it.Live Update #13 began to dilute the storyline right there by removing the initial tutorial zone where you get fished out of the water by Captain Vargas and get attacked by the Drakota.If you remove the island zones, people might start asking "Who are all these dead people on this island?" when they go kill Darathar.If anything, I think that the reverse should happen. Not only should the island zones be kept in the game, but access to BOTH of them should be made available to all players. I know that I would like to go back and finish some of those quests I missed out on, even if it would only take all of 5 minutes to do them all.

Arkenor

03-22-2010, 07:52 PM

How does removing the choice of starting in Qeynos or Freeport improve the game in any way?If these areas of the game are lacking, improve them. Don't just cast them aside.Frankly, if it came down to a choice, I would rather the time spent on making a new starting area like New Halas from scratch had been spent on getting Qeynos and Freeport up to whatever standard they require to not be left to rot.And by improve, I don't mean making them dull and linear like some of the new starting areas.Qeynosian for life.

Raknid

03-22-2010, 08:18 PM

Removing the isles is a REALLY REALLY poor idea. Simply add a screen to the character select process after you select your class that says "For the best new player experience start in <List of Cities>." Then when they hit next to get to the starting location they can shoose for themselves. Heck, you already have certain races defaulted to certain cities, Wood Elves to Kelethin for example, so the addition of the screen with the defaults selected to whatever city SOE thinks is best would surely be enough. I mean if a person sees the window AND is defaulted to a city other than where SOE wants them to start and STILL selects Qeynos or Freeport then chances are pretty good they have made a concious decision to go against advice. DO NOT get rid of the heritage by removing the starting isles. DO NOT remove existing content. DO NOT treat people like they need to have the game laid out on rails for them. People who have played this game for years and new people alike are adult enough to decide on their own where they want to start. Give them suggestions. DO NOT force them.

vexation

03-22-2010, 08:23 PM

<cite>Shaydu@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote>Brenlo: Well when I said that, I had been drinking . . . Seriously though, we plan to only allow new characters to start in the newer player areas. Timorous, Greater Fay, Darklight and Soon Halas. THe new player experience in Qeynos and Freeport are just not up to snuff anymore and do not provide as solid an experience when you enter the game for the first time</blockquote>Won't this just push all new players away from living in Queynos or Freeport, thereby making the two "main" cities even more deserted than they are presently? That alone makes this the worst idea I've heard since shrimp-flavored ice cream.Instead of removing the zones we all remember and love from the first minute many of us logged in a toon, how about spending the time to improve them instead of removing them entirely? I just don't understand the reasoning here. If the problem is the number of separate zones that exist in Queynos and Freeport, then merge them into one larger zone, don't marginalize the very thing that the original concept of the game is based upon (followers of Antonia vs. followers of Lucan).</blockquote>I'm with everyone else and think that removing them as a choice is ridiculous, give people the option and a warning instead.I keep seeing people suggest merging the seperate Qeynos and Freeport zones and IMO it'll never happen (as nice an idea as it may be) - the sheer amount of work involved is... ugh... all the HQ's, all the potentially game breaking quests (epic quest updates), all the links from the sewers that currently go to different parts of Qeynos/FP etc - everything that would have to be taken into consideration is mind boggling - especially considering the revamp of Kaladim / Sinking Sands recently (both of which are relatively simple zones) and the problems encountered there.Changing old content is just an easy way to break everything else in the game that relied on it. Just look at the furor over the inability for people to get Speak As A Dragon updates.. and that's just caused by some guards being a higher level.

Gungo

03-22-2010, 08:30 PM

To tell the truth Removing qeynos and freeport as a newbie zone would be a great idea. If they made them into a high level city zone. But this would require moving several low level quests out of the city or making it so people can build faction with both cities. If done right this could actually bring people back into the main cities.

Daine

03-22-2010, 10:21 PM

I preferred the other thread for discussing the Isles' removal as it was clearly labeled and put in a sensical area of the forums instead of being lumped in with the rest of the dev chat stuff, but it was locked. So I guess I'll post my comments here. The main reason it irritates me is the obvious disregard for the original lore. I didn't start playing till 3 years ago, and I never played EQ1 much less played on an RP server, yet I feel very strongly about the lore in this game. I just wonder why these cities are being abandoned instead of revamped. I know, it takes time to revamp...but it also takes time to create an entire shiny new zone. IMO it would have been better to revamp the tutorial system to be more useful (for all cities) and make the progression in the original starter zones a bit clearer, with better gear.I'm not entirely convinced that starting in a pampered new zone is going to produce better players but why confuse new players by telling them that Qey/FP are the main cities then not even allow them to start there? I'm expecting to see a lot of 'How do you live in Qeynos? My guild hall and all the houses to buy stuff from are there' a few months after Halas. Sure you'll be able to change citizenship but that's kind of a hassle sometimes, and the tutorial doesn't show it as an option if I recall correctly. The specific offense here isn't as much of an issue; it's the trends that disturb me. Dumbing down of new content, but I doubt the new tutorial will be much better, just easier gear. Disregard for the original lore and established community in these cities (how hard, between guild halls and players dispersed between 6 cities, will it be for guides to run quests?) Ignorance of the original content in favor of racing to level cap quickly. I feel bad for new players that have it easy as a newbie then are thrown into higher levels and have to wrestle with lack of gear progression, class balance, and harder quests (pity the fool that steps into RoK at level 65 and tries to solo something in level 50 gear because it's better than level 65 gear). I don't think this is an issue with the starter isles, I think it's an issue with the fundamental design of the game. The Golden Path alleviates this a bit but extending the loss of content back to the starter isles is a mistake =(

zorkan

03-23-2010, 05:43 AM

Freeport 4ever... enough said!

Levatino

03-23-2010, 07:47 AM

I would be sad to see the isles removed from the game and the possibility to start in either city as well. All my chars use Freeport as there home especially South Freeport that has everything need together. Tradeskill area, banker, broker, mender and bells!There is another reason why I use FP as starting city. Lag, yes there are people who have supercomputers but more that haven't and I'm one of them. Neriak is unplayable for me cause of lag (hence why I never go to a guildhall as well) Ever been stuck there and it took a GS to take me out of there.Instead of removing maybe they could redo the starter areas of both cities. Maybe go back to one island so goodies and evils share there first levels again and then off to one of the cities.Then instead of the zones we have now (forest ruins, graveyard, peat bog) one big zone like TD, DLW and GF around the city. Meaning the quest starters in the suburbs should be relocated or redone in this zone and the suburbs should be incorporated in the city itself. The end zones we have now (the caves and the ruins) are then the endquests of this big zone.The sewers can maybe also be redone. Make it even more logical to go there, cause there are people who never knew there were sewers benath the city.Also I think if people only start in the other starter areas leading towards BM what will happen to TS and Nek Forest? If there is no logic of ever going there who will go there? Maybe the redoing of zones can be even taken a step further. Include CL and Nek Forest in the Freeport Start zone and Antonica and TS into the Qeynos one. Making it two superzones like TD and Gfay both are as well.Btw like someone feared that they would remove the cities. Removing both cities would also mean they have to redo several heritage quests which uses the cities (Assasin, Claymore come to mind) so that will not happen I think. Or better hope..To conclude the starter zones in both cities can be done a lot better but removing would be a step to far in my opinion.

zorkan

03-23-2010, 08:10 AM

I agree, they should just have one refugee island for both Q and FP. Once done on the island:- Evil classes or races will be sent to FP- Good classes or races will be send to Qeynos- Neutral classes/races have to decide on either FP or QeynosThe refugee island should be run by some neutral entity and could focus around the necessities of a refugee island instead of a good/bad setup.I strongly feel that SOE shouldn't give up on Q and FP as a starting city too easily!

Daine

03-23-2010, 10:44 AM

<cite>Marvis@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>I agree, they should just have one refugee island for both Q and FP. Once done on the island:- Evil classes or races will be sent to FP- Good classes or races will be send to Qeynos- Neutral classes/races have to decide on either FP or QeynosThe refugee island should be run by some neutral entity and could focus around the necessities of a refugee island instead of a good/bad setup.I strongly feel that SOE shouldn't give up on Q and FP as a starting city too easily!</blockquote>That's not a bad idea. I could see the Far Seas Trading Company taking in refugees and investing in them as a future business opportunity.

Wilderbeast25

03-23-2010, 11:47 AM

Removing the Isle is one of the dumbest ideas I have ever heard. Personally I start ALL of my toons there no matter where I decide to go later. If you are oh so worried about it simply up the stats on the starter gear that is there and lets move on with life. That is all that has been really wrong about it. I personally enjoy doing the Q quest lines in the starter cities and then going to the adventure areas around the city like the Forest Ruins, the Bog, and the Caves. There is nothing wrong with the story lines that are there. If you are worried about it then simply put a warning up to new users that these are older starting areas provided for the sake of lore and recommend going to one of the new areas or heck even restrict the Isle to people that have already created a toon in another starting area. Sorta like have to go create a toon in gfay and level it to 20 before you can unlock the older areas.

Rheem

03-23-2010, 12:05 PM

Personally I would rather start in Ant/CL maybe with a new area accessable to higher players via gryphon tower.Revamp the zones (almost totaly) to cover 1-20 like the other starting zones. Have a clear path of progression and where you should be like in the other zones. Once you finish it there should be a quest directing you to Butcherblock via Nek/TS or via Gryphon Tower like the other zones..I DO think the origional starting areas should remain perserved and accessable to those who wish to experience it, perhaps via a popup box on creation, with the new choice having (Recommended) next to it.In the meantime I think some sort of warning/confirmation box needs to be put up when a character selects these cities letting them know that these areas will provide less gear and they will more or less be on their own as far as how they progress through the game.

Jrral

03-23-2010, 03:47 PM

Two things I liked about the Isles:1. Proximity to the two main cities. You know, the ones the guild halls are in. That made it convenient to start new alts. I spend an hour or so getting to level 9 on the Isle, hop into the city and get housing, guild-hall call and such, ding 12 in one of the attached zones and get my T2 MC gear, and I'm set to go out into the world. From the newer starting areas it's a bit more involved getting to Qeynos or Freeport and the guild halls, and it seems like it takes longer to level than on the Isles. Sure the gear's better, but I'm still going to outlevel it fast and mastercrafted's more than good enough to level with.2. The Isles have the best introduction to basic game mechanics. In the other areas you're assumed to know how combat works, what those shinies on the ground are and what to do with them, what harvest nodes are. On the Isles you get quests that take you to trainers who explain all of that. The new areas are great, but the Isles IMO have the best introduction for a completely new player. I'd hate to see that completely go away.

Ariellia

03-24-2010, 01:22 AM

Originally posted this in a different thread, but since it seems SOE wants all the feedback consolidated to one thread, I am moving it here...----------------------I almost never post to the forums, but when I read Brenlo's statement from the dev chat regarding Freeport and Qeynos, I felt I had to come out of lurk mode to say something.If this were to come to pass, I would be extremely disappointed.Like others, Qeynos and Freeport are some of my favorite cities, and I don't think it would be really fair to take away people's option to start there. Some people like running around and exploring, taking their time to level. Qeynos especially is the one area where I think EQ2 feels the most like a fantasy-based game, and brings back the most memories of its predecessor (at least for me).As many others have said, adding content is good, taking away existing content just leads to frustrated players and less to do. There are so many quests in Qeynos and Freeport, Antonica and the Commonlands that would be lost.In addition, it doesn't seem to make any sense from a lore perspective. I played EQ2 for a bit back when it first came out, and I know that the story was that Qeynos and Freeport were the only two cities to be mostly unscathed in the cataclysms and wars. They were the original two starting cities, and survivors of all races flocked there to start over, some even called by the gods. Over the course of the game's storyline, other areas have been rediscovered, but I don't comprehend how it would make sense for these rediscoveries to mean that no one is going to live in Qeynos or Freeport anymore. These cities were the traditional homes of the human race; I can't see the humans abandoning them. However, the in-game neighborhoods in those cities would likely be all but abandoned if this change went through. Are Qeynos and Freeport going to end up as nothing more than a hub for guildhalls? To me, this change would deal a great blow to overall game storyline.I could possibly justify getting rid of the "newbie islands" and creating a new starting experience that begins directly in Antonica/Commonlands, but not removing the option to start in those cities entirely. In fact, I would be thrilled if the original questlines in those zones got some revamps to make the rewards more in line with the other zones, and maybe add some additional quests. Personally, I think that is all those zones really need. Even if you didn't though, I still don't think they are bad areas. I never would have imagined you guys would consider taking them out.I have liked a number of changes you guys have made over the years - getting rid of group debt, making more solo-able content, etc. This, however, is one change I feel I can't support, and will make me very disappointed in the development team if it is carried out. I know there has been a lot of naysaying lately, and I've been trying to give you guys a break. After all, I'm a programmer myself and know what a tough job it is. However, even considering this change makes me wonder whether some of the naysayers might be right when they say that SOE has gotten rid of most of the EQ2 dev team or is focusing on other games. Does SOE not want to commit resources to EQ2 anymore? Is it that you just don't have the staff to revamp these zones into the better experience you envision? I remember once a while ago someone on the staff (was it the Producer?) saying that they were going to focus on EQ2 as a flagship game, but removing content because there is no time to revamp it doesn't seem to support that. Unless you guys are trying to take EQ2 down a new path entirely, in which case I would ask you to remember that we are all playing because we like the game the way it is now. (As they say, it's much better to keep a current loyal customer than get a new one.) Please don't try to make EQ2 into another WoW; I tried that game and guess what, I'm here <img src="../images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" />I beg you to please reconsider. At the very least give us a more thorough explanation of the reasoning for this change, and why these zones must be removed as starting areas rather than revamped.Thank you, and please excuse any rambling in this message. It is late, but I felt I had to speak out.Sincerely,A disappointed, loyal EQ2 fan <img src="../images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" />

Ashlian

03-25-2010, 06:00 AM

<cite>Nayawk wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm hoping this killing off of the start Isle is not something that is set in stone yet because it is a terrible idea. I love alts and I start alot of them and you couldn't pay me to run them through any of the new starter zones... as a whole they have gotten progressively worse and the only one that is in anyway bearable, DLW, wasn't even done by this dev team.I'm willing to buy that new players might need a helping hand/intro into the game and that this Golden Path idea could help but all you need is a big message flashy on the starter location screen at character selection say "we recommend these 3 starter areas for new players or fast leveling".This game is what it is because of the vast expanse of quest/zones and the huge choice is the selling point as far as I'm concerned. Removing choice is bad, adding choice is good. It's really that simple. How can removing these zones or any other original zones a positive thing? If you direct people to the new areas but still allow for play in the old and only 3 people a week step foot in the isle then I fail to see the down side of how making those 3 customers happy is somehow ruining the game because they aren't 'up to snuff'Don't have the time or will to upgrade the old zones fine, but leave them as they are, don't remove them because they are the best looking in terms of enviroment and will be missed.</blockquote>Lot of thumbs up. I've played for so many years I never touch a newbie zone unless I'm mentoring a friend new to the game. I will be vastly displeased if I'm forced to start a toon anywhere but where I, personally, wish to have them housed. Leave it as an OPTION to start where you wish.

Ashlian

03-25-2010, 06:07 AM

<cite>Levatino wrote:</cite><blockquote>There is another reason why I use FP as starting city. Lag, yes there are people who have supercomputers but more that haven't and I'm one of them. Neriak is unplayable for me cause of lag (hence why I never go to a guildhall as well) Ever been stuck there and it took a GS to take me out of there.Instead of removing maybe they could redo the starter areas of both cities. Maybe go back to one island so goodies and evils share there first levels again and then off to one of the cities.Then instead of the zones we have now (forest ruins, graveyard, peat bog) one big zone like TD, DLW and GF around the city. Meaning the quest starters in the suburbs should be relocated or redone in this zone and the suburbs should be incorporated in the city itself. The end zones we have now (the caves and the ruins) are then the endquests of this big zone.The sewers can maybe also be redone. Make it even more logical to go there, cause there are people who never knew there were sewers benath the city.Also I think if people only start in the other starter areas leading towards BM what will happen to TS and Nek Forest? If there is no logic of ever going there who will go there? Maybe the redoing of zones can be even taken a step further. Include CL and Nek Forest in the Freeport Start zone and Antonica and TS into the Qeynos one. Making it two superzones like TD and Gfay both are as well.Btw like someone feared that they would remove the cities. Removing both cities would also mean they have to redo several heritage quests which uses the cities (Assasin, Claymore come to mind) so that will not happen I think. Or better hope..To conclude the starter zones in both cities can be done a lot better but removing would be a step to far in my opinion.</blockquote>Please also consider that for people with older computers (yes, we do get them, especially NEW players, strangely, because games like WoW require far less in the way of a computer than EQ2 and refugees from some of the games like that have played for a while on older machines) zones like Neriak and Gorowyn have always been filled with lag. I have guildmates who will not step foot in Neriak to this day because it means rebooting their computers after zoning a few times in and out and the same for guildies who won't touch Timorous Deep because they hate the overland lag. No more superzones, then please, or we'd have the kind of problem highlighted with Neriak and guildhalls lol.Leave options in the game for people who have trouble with the "let's build a zone as big as we can get it so people don't have to zone but then experience forty times the latency and lag" credo.