The age old profession gap is still there and growing

[Odys]

<p>Armorers, tailors, and weaponmaker are fondamentaly  much less usefull than other professions. </p><p>Carpenters are always busy decorating houses and so on, the one of my guild even complain -- too much work -- and she is a dedicated crafter. </p><p>Alchemists are very important for potions and they do higly desired melee Adept 3. </p><p>Sages are super fast to level and do crucial adept 3, i see demand for a level 90 sage very often/ </p><p>Woodworkers can at least sell arrows (indeed they may be broken too i m unsure).</p><p>Cooks do the best food in game, i would even say the only decent food in game. </p><p>Armorers, tailors and weaponmaker are glad to make crap that nobody want past level 70.</p><p>We are of zero use in the high tiers except for the shard armor, but those armors can be made by any crafter.</p><p>One solution that would be faire would have  shard armor made by the relevant profession, armorers and taylors. But this won't help weaponwmiths. </p><p>The system as it is now is perfectly broken, some craft classes can do something unique while 3 others can only do items that are not even as good as what a duo can get in the hole. </p><p>I know that it's not so new, but at least till mid ROK MC gear was used in the highest tiers. It's not the case anymore. </p><p>BTW as a taylor i m lucky, there are 5-6 slots for my armors bu players usually use at most 2 weapons, so for weaponsmith it's even worst.</p>

[Zehl_Ice-Fire]

<p>You forgot totems & harvest tools for woodworkers, those constantly sell for mine.</p><p>Tailors can make bags & quivers which is one up on arm/WS.</p>

[Oxie]

<p>The title of this thread had me do a double take. I'm like...since when did prostitution become an EQ2 tradeskill? Add to the fact that Zehl posted in this thread just made me smile all the more.</p><p>=D</p>

[Zehl_Ice-Fire]

<p><cite>Ruckus@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The title of this thread had me do a double take. I'm like...since when did prostitution become an EQ2 tradeskill? Add to the fact that Zehl posted in this thread just made me smile all the more.</p><p>=D</p></blockquote><p>Don't make me beat you up and get banned little Qenosian Rogue.</p>

[Oxie]

<p><cite>Zehl_Ice-Fire wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ruckus@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The title of this thread had me do a double take. I'm like...since when did prostitution become an EQ2 tradeskill? Add to the fact that Zehl posted in this thread just made me smile all the more.</p><p>=D</p></blockquote><p>Don't make me beat you up and get banned little Qenosian Rogue.</p></blockquote><p>There you go by threatening me with a good time...again.</p>

[Meirril]

<p><cite>Odys@Storms wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p> I know that it's not so new, but at least till mid ROK MC gear was used in the highest tiers. It's not the case anymore. </p></blockquote><p>Ok, I don't think you were around during RoK launch because the exact same thing that is happening now happened then. Nobody bought MC 72 armor. Why? Because they had the best gear that EoF had to offer and it was better than MC gear.</p><p>6 months later armorers had a fairly decent market which kept getting better over the next 2 years. Why is that? Because the people that didn't spend 6+ months at level 70 didn't have all the best EoF gear and 72 MC was good for leveling.</p><p>Shard Armor might kill the 84 MC market. Nobody is going to wait around long enough to earn enough shards for the tier 2 armor, but they might get the tier 1. If it is a twink, I'd expect their main to farm enough shards for t1 if they don't have enough for t2 saved up. For new players, you'll probably sell them a full set of 84 armor just beacause they'll hit 84 before they can earn enough shards for a full set considering that very few people want to do instances for shards.</p><p>Give it a few more months, then test the market. Right now it just sounds like your singing doom and gloom without even trying to make it work.</p>

[Ahlana]

<p><cite>Meirril wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Odys@Storms wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p> I know that it's not so new, but at least till mid ROK MC gear was used in the highest tiers. It's not the case anymore. </p></blockquote><p>Ok, I don't think you were around during RoK launch because the exact same thing that is happening now happened then. Nobody bought MC 72 armor. Why? Because they had the best gear that EoF had to offer and it was better than MC gear.</p><p>6 months later armorers had a fairly decent market which kept getting better over the next 2 years. Why is that? Because the people that didn't spend 6+ months at level 70 didn't have all the best EoF gear and 72 MC was good for leveling.</p></blockquote><p>It also didn't hurt that people said the armor sucked at 72 and Domino gave it a nice boost <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Making it not all that sucky as it was.</p>

[erin]

<p>I've sold a fair bit of brellium armor.  Haven't made any brellium weapons yet, so don't know what that market is like.</p><p>My tailor has made tons making the 40 slot common backpacks.</p><p>Guess YMMV.</p>

[EQ2Player]

<p><cite>Odys@Storms wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Armorers, tailors, and weaponmaker are fondamentaly  much less usefull than other professions. </p><p>....</p><span style="color: #ff6600;"><strong>Armorers, tailors and weaponmaker are glad to make crap that nobody want past level 70.</strong></span><p>We are of zero use in the high tiers except for the shard armor, but those armors can be made by any crafter.</p></blockquote><p>Agree here. I hope the folks at EQ2 will give the armor and weapons a serious reexamination and keep the tradefolk viable and integral. The interdependencies of players on crafted goods and the tradeskills role in the economy is why I keep playing this game. No other game has this depth. So why remove this uniqueness? Please keep our tradeskills and role in the upper tiers viable.</p>

[Odys]

<p>Ok we have the bags, and i made like 10 for the guild most people don't really need extra slot, indeed the simplification in gear that came around the expansion launch have let my bags empty.</p><p>I m not here speaking of market or about making money, what i suggest that all the professions should be usefull in a guild, and outfitters and smiths are not that usefull.</p><p>I want armorers to do the best armor in game, smith the best weapons and so on. For sure some of those craft should involve no trade components under comissioned crafting. Even the mythical weapon hould be finalized by a weaponsmith. </p><p>Domino did implement something close to that, since we got the ability to make T1-T2 shard armor, but tha ability was given to any crafter.</p><p>A new player recently started a tailor, i adviced him to be a carpenter (more fun) and all the master tailors of the guild replied : taylors are useless. If i could change my art while loosing 10 levels i would for sure become a carpenter, a sage or an alchimist.</p>

[Novusod]

<p>You guys forgot about craftable battlegrounds armor made by tailors and armorers for level 80s and level 90s. This is the best armors for battlegrounds until you earn enough reward tokens to buy fabled BG armor. Still the weaponsmith got hosed over with no craftible BG weapons. Sure Domino could fix that if the weaponsmiths asked.</p>

[Jacobian21]

<p>I didn't see anyone mention the temp adorns that weaponsmiths can make from the RoK faction recipes. Scouts want those a lot.</p>

[Rijacki]

<p>I really would love to have some items dropped in an adventure zone that could be usable as-is or taken to a class specific crafter who has a special recipe (gained from a crafting quest or a crafting faction) that could then be fashioned into something even better to become THE best in the game for each type of adventure gameplay solo, heroic, 2x raid, 4x raid,and hardcore 4x raid (but the means to get the recipes would also have to increase in effort/difficulty as well).</p><p>The Shard/Marks recipes 'almost' do it, but they're not class specific and only go through the first two progression 'teirs' of the armor with better relatively easily attainable and nothing into the raid progression.</p><p>The RoK faction pieces requiring the drop item almost do it, too, but only because they're class specific but the gear is really only useful to soloers and more casual heroic with better being very easy to obtain.</p><p>The Emerald Halls stuff almost does it, too, being class specific -and- stuff that's better than similar easily obtainable in the same place you get the drops, but it fails on the fact the recipes are also only dropped from those same targets. Crafters have no way to get the recipes on their own work.</p><p>The Deathfist Citadel armors are close, too, being class specific but only 2 classes. The fact the ore drops from a wide range of targets both in Zek and the Citadel but the recipes only drop from those in the Citadel makes them opposite from the Emerald Halls stuff. The fact the recipes have to be made on the special tables in the Citadel (or on home versions obtained from a collection quest added -much- later) which can be guarded makes them special, in my opinion, in a cool way.</p><p>Back before LU#19 and the crafting "revamp", the level 50 yewwood, wurmscale, and other such was almost right on the money, except it left out several classes. Dropped items which made the best stuff, some for specific encounters, for which crafters had to get recipes by getting a crafting faction (city faction, I think) and then crafted on specific crafting stations in very not safe locations which could be protected.</p><p>My ideal for the very very best in game stuff for each of the adventure gamestyles would be recipes obtained by a crafter through crafting effort, drop items that can be used as-is or as a component in those recipes, made on special crafting tables in an associated location so that during the commission crafting process the commissioner would have to protect the crafter.</p><p>However, I am hoping there will be more recipes added in SF later for all classes. The Battlegrounds stuff for armorers and tailors? Since the token gear, which is MUCH better than the Kerra stuff, is easier to get than the harvest rares, sadly I'm seeing it just as appearance stuff.</p>

[EQ2Player]

<p><cite>Novusod wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You guys forgot about craftable battlegrounds armor made by tailors and armorers for level 80s and level 90s. This is the best armors for battlegrounds until you earn enough reward tokens to buy fabled BG armor. Still the weaponsmith got hosed over with no craftible BG weapons. Sure Domino could fix that if the weaponsmiths asked.</p></blockquote><p>We've not forgotten. This comment lacks perspective and understanding what is really going on.</p><p>1) To craft the above armor you must level your crafter to the appropriate level. But, that is not enough - Then, you must grind 40k faction with the Far Seas Division at 750 faction per writ.  This can take many days / weeks depending on the subscriber's game time. <strong>And the end result? Being able to :</strong></p><ul><li>Craft armor that is not as good as the "real" BG Armor</li><li>Craft armor that can be easily bypassed through a Token system, thus eliminating the crafter completely.</li></ul><p>2) Token system: The Armor crafter is slowly being eliminated by token systems. Pity the weaponsmith.</p><p>3) The Sentienel's Fate Recipes: We must now go through Crafting Timelines to get our 80-90 recipes. These are fun, but we are required to:</p><ul><li>Level our crafter to the appropriate level</li><li>Obtain enough faction to buy our recipes</li><li>Finally, recieve recipes to create items that are subpar with little to no demand from players that can just get token gear by simply adventuring.</li></ul><p>Someone is trying to appease an instant gratification camp of players which evidently demands crafting be dumbed down or eliminated from this game. They must have a loud voice because that's what is happening. Replaced by token systems. But to try to keep the crafters happy, we are able to create "stepping-stone" armor, like the BG armor.</p><p>EQ2 crafting use to be a shining example of how games integrate the crafting segment into adventuring and the games economy. Eventually, the other tradeskills will have token replacements too...its the trend folks. Crafting is being watered down for a group of transient players that get thier armor, have some fun and move on to the next thrill. IMO</p>

[Ahlana]

<p><cite>EQ2Player wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>1) To craft the above armor you must level your crafter to the appropriate level. But, that is not enough - Then, you must grind 40k faction with the Far Seas Division at 750 faction per writ.  This can take many days / weeks depending on the subscriber's game time. <strong>And the end result? Being able to :</strong></p><ul><li>Craft armor that is not as good as the "real" BG Armor</li><li>Craft armor that can be easily bypassed through a Token system, thus eliminating the crafter completely.</li></ul></blockquote><p>Almost right... 40k faction is not needed for the Mara Recipes... Not sure what the faction requirement is (if there even is one) But I bought it without have 40k faction just fine.</p>

[EQ2Player]

<p><cite>Ahlana wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>EQ2Player wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>1) To craft the above armor you must level your crafter to the appropriate level. But, that is not enough - Then, you must grind 40k faction with the Far Seas Division at 750 faction per writ.  This can take many days / weeks depending on the subscriber's game time. <strong>And the end result? Being able to :</strong></p><ul><li>Craft armor that is not as good as the "real" BG Armor</li><li>Craft armor that can be easily bypassed through a Token system, thus eliminating the crafter completely.</li></ul></blockquote><p>Almost right... 40k faction is not needed for the Mara Recipes... Not sure what the faction requirement is (if there even is one) But I bought it without have 40k faction just fine.</p></blockquote><p>Oopps. Well, was really trying to emphasize the token system vs. our crafted items anyway <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Heh, I actually think its 500 faction per writ too...</p><p><cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>However, I am hoping there will be more recipes added in SF later for all classes. <span style="color: #ff9900;"><strong>The Battlegrounds stuff for armorers and tailors? Since the token gear, which is MUCH better than the Kerra stuff, is easier to get than the<span style="color: #ff0000;"> harvest rares</span></strong></span>, sadly I'm seeing it just as appearance stuff.</p></blockquote><p>Excellent point</p>

[Rijacki]

<p><cite>EQ2Player wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ahlana wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>EQ2Player wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>1) To craft the above armor you must level your crafter to the appropriate level. But, that is not enough - Then, you must grind 40k faction with the Far Seas Division at 750 faction per writ.  This can take many days / weeks depending on the subscriber's game time. <strong>And the end result? Being able to :</strong></p><ul><li>Craft armor that is not as good as the "real" BG Armor</li><li>Craft armor that can be easily bypassed through a Token system, thus eliminating the crafter completely.</li></ul></blockquote><p>Almost right... 40k faction is not needed for the Mara Recipes... Not sure what the faction requirement is (if there even is one) But I bought it without have 40k faction just fine.</p></blockquote><p>Oopps. Well, was really trying to emphasize the token system vs. our crafted items anyway <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> Heh, I actually think its 500 faction per writ too...</p><p><cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>However, I am hoping there will be more recipes added in SF later for all classes. <span style="color: #ff9900;"><strong>The Battlegrounds stuff for armorers and tailors? Since the token gear, which is MUCH better than the Kerra stuff, is easier to get than the<span style="color: #ff0000;"> harvest rares</span></strong></span>, sadly I'm seeing it just as appearance stuff.</p></blockquote><p>Excellent point</p></blockquote><p>The Mara stuff is a teir less than the Kerra stuff so the Kerra stuff -should- be better. Both, though, require a rare harvest for every item.</p><p>If the difference in tokens between a BG loss and a BG win was greater with a higher number of tokens needed to buy anything, then the crafted BG stuff would have had a use. But, since the difference is just 2 tokens (3 for a win, 1 for a loss) and the tokens needed make it possible to get fully token kitted from nothing but losses in a rather short time, the crafted is.. well.. pointless.</p><p>My information on token costs/etc is from information, official and players, I have read. I have not set foot in the BGs, not out of principle or anything, just because I hadn't time really between dealing with a health issue sapping my energy and the expansion coming out and work stress (and then pre-surgery stress and prep). I might give BGs a try in a month or three. At that point I might even "need" my new appearance stuff for it's actual purpose but it would be heaps easier to just die and get the loss tokens cause the Kerra gear wouldn't be that much better than my normal stuff vs those who already got kitted out in tokens.</p>

[Ristan]

<p><cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>EQ2Player wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ahlana wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>EQ2Player wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>1) To craft the above armor you must level your crafter to the appropriate level. But, that is not enough - Then, you must grind 40k faction with the Far Seas Division at 750 faction per writ.  This can take many days / weeks depending on the subscriber's game time. <strong>And the end result? Being able to :</strong></p><ul><li>Craft armor that is not as good as the "real" BG Armor</li><li>Craft armor that can be easily bypassed through a Token system, thus eliminating the crafter completely.</li></ul></blockquote><p>Almost right... 40k faction is not needed for the Mara Recipes... Not sure what the faction requirement is (if there even is one) But I bought it without have 40k faction just fine.</p></blockquote><p>Oopps. Well, was really trying to emphasize the token system vs. our crafted items anyway <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> Heh, I actually think its 500 faction per writ too...</p><p><cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>However, I am hoping there will be more recipes added in SF later for all classes. <span style="color: #ff9900;"><strong>The Battlegrounds stuff for armorers and tailors? Since the token gear, which is MUCH better than the Kerra stuff, is easier to get than the<span style="color: #ff0000;"> harvest rares</span></strong></span>, sadly I'm seeing it just as appearance stuff.</p></blockquote><p>Excellent point</p></blockquote><p>The Mara stuff is a teir less than the Kerra stuff so the Kerra stuff -should- be better. Both, though, require a rare harvest for every item.</p><p>If the difference in tokens between a BG loss and a BG win was greater with a higher number of tokens needed to buy anything, then the crafted BG stuff would have had a use. But, since the difference is just 2 tokens (3 for a win, 1 for a loss) and the tokens needed make it possible to get fully token kitted from nothing but losses in a rather short time, the crafted is.. well.. pointless.</p><p>My information on token costs/etc is from information, official and players, I have read. I have not set foot in the BGs, not out of principle or anything, just because I hadn't time really between dealing with a health issue sapping my energy and the expansion coming out and work stress (and then pre-surgery stress and prep). I might give BGs a try in a month or three. At that point I might even "need" my new appearance stuff for it's actual purpose but it would be heaps easier to just die and get the loss tokens cause the Kerra gear wouldn't be that much better than my normal stuff vs those who already got kitted out in tokens.</p></blockquote><p>The mara stuff is level 80.  The kerra stuff is level 90.  The mara is going from 3-14p on my server, and the kerra is 15+ plus per peice.</p><p>Sure, you can BGs without the steping stone armor, just like you can play without all your adepts until you get mastered.  Either way you will suck if you aren't already raid gear/avatar geared and even then you still somewhat need the toughness.</p><p>For BGs armor:</p><p>3 tokens = Win</p><p>1 Token = Loss</p><p>Normal cost for armor: anywhere from 30-60 shards from two different zones. So you may need 30 tokesn from gears (group vs group) and 30 tokens from ganak (x2 vs x2).  It took me approx 6 -8 hours of grinding to get enough shards for one peice of jewlery.  The raid zones take sometime the x4 averages 8-10 mins per run (if you need 30 tokens and loose every match, thats 30x10= 300 minutes or 5 hours not counting queue time. if you have a good match may take longer)</p><p>So it is a considerable time sink for someone who is looking to get fully geared in BGs.  I don't see why they wouldn't want to buy BGs armor to help out in the mean time.</p><p>However, weaponsmiths, yes need some love.  The whetstone stuff isn't really enough.</p>

[VikingGamer]

<p>So even weaponsmiths can make whetstones or something like that and tailors can make bags, much less useful but at least something.</p><p>Do Armorsmiths have anything of the sort? Because the only thing I have noticed so far is that at level 22 I could not make the lvl 22 MC armor for myself. I would first have to level up to like 25 o 26 in crafting and then find a way to get the books which, since this is my first toon, isn't really possible for me.</p><p>As near as I can see it armorsmithing isn't even useful for making armor for yourself as you level up unless you have a higher level alt that can bank role you. So I had to have my armor made by a guildie anyway.</p><p>So, with that in mind. Is there any reason at all to be an armorsmith? Even something slight or mostly lame?</p><p>I hate having wasted time and resources on something only to have to throw it away. I have even already done the quest from the grandmaster to harvest 50 things in thundering steppes which I was hoping to be repeatable way to pick up the adv books but didn't turn out that way. So now I am looking at switching out to alchemy so that I can do something useful.</p><p>My question is, will I be able to make my own experts essense? (I am a paladin) Or will I run into the same problem with armorsmithing in that I wont realistically be able to make them while they are still useful for me?  I figure, in this regard, even being able to make my journeymans and get them researched up is better than nothing and health potions are always useful.</p>

[Phiyah]

<p>What about jewelers? How do they fare in higher tiers?</p>

[EQ2Player]

<p><cite>Phiyah@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>What about jewelers? How do they fare in higher tiers?</p></blockquote><p>They make all scout spells, in addition to jewelry...so they're sitting pretty</p>

[Sorvani]

<p><cite>EQ2Player wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ahlana wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>EQ2Player wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>1) To craft the above armor you must level your crafter to the appropriate level. But, that is not enough - Then, you must grind 40k faction with the Far Seas Division at 750 faction per writ.  This can take many days / weeks depending on the subscriber's game time. <strong>And the end result? Being able to :</strong></p><ul><li>Craft armor that is not as good as the "real" BG Armor</li><li>Craft armor that can be easily bypassed through a Token system, thus eliminating the crafter completely.</li></ul></blockquote><p>Almost right... 40k faction is not needed for the Mara Recipes... Not sure what the faction requirement is (if there even is one) But I bought it without have 40k faction just fine.</p></blockquote><p>Oopps. Well, was really trying to emphasize the token system vs. our crafted items anyway <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> Heh, I actually think its 500 faction per writ too...</p></blockquote><p>To buy the 4 T8 shard books from the faction merchant in Mara requires 40k faction, 10 tokens each, and some random gold. Yes the writs are +500 faction per. A daily group instance is +1500 faction. A weekly solo quest is +2000 faction.</p><p>7 Days = 10,500 just from daily and weekly. So even doing no writs you can have 40k in a month.</p><p>Add in say 4 writs a day +500 * 4 = +2,000 and it goes even quicker. Heck even just 4 writs per day means only 20 days for +40,000 faction from zero.</p><p>Do Ship Out in the Moors and get some faction.</p><p>Do the SF quest line and get a little faction also as I recall.</p>

[Cerec]

<p>Weaponsmiths definately need some attention.  I'd be very interested to read a posting from Brenlo about the weaponsmith class and how he expects us to be useful in this expansion.   I thought perhaps the faction items might be interesting ...but, they're junk (I posted another thread about that so I won't go into it here.)</p><p>Anyway, I think weaponsmiths either need fixed or removed from the game (and give weaponsmiths a choice to join another profession at our same level.)</p>

[Meirril]

<p><cite>Ahlana wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Meirril wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Odys@Storms wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p> I know that it's not so new, but at least till mid ROK MC gear was used in the highest tiers. It's not the case anymore. </p></blockquote><p>Ok, I don't think you were around during RoK launch because the exact same thing that is happening now happened then. Nobody bought MC 72 armor. Why? Because they had the best gear that EoF had to offer and it was better than MC gear.</p><p>6 months later armorers had a fairly decent market which kept getting better over the next 2 years. Why is that? Because the people that didn't spend 6+ months at level 70 didn't have all the best EoF gear and 72 MC was good for leveling.</p></blockquote><p>It also didn't hurt that people said the armor sucked at 72 and Domino gave it a nice boost <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /> Making it not all that sucky as it was.</p></blockquote><p>The t7 MC armor was sub-par when compaired to treasured gear due to the inclusion of a lot of +ability in later itemization after MC was finalized. Domino brought it up to the proper level again, that's all. The current 84 armor is properly itemized when compaired to treasured 84 gear. I don't see it being reballanced in light of that.</p>

[Meirril]

<p><cite>Cerec wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Weaponsmiths definately need some attention.  I'd be very interested to read a posting from Brenlo about the weaponsmith class and how he expects us to be useful in this expansion.   I thought perhaps the faction items might be interesting ...but, they're junk (I posted another thread about that so I won't go into it here.)</p><p>Anyway, I think weaponsmiths either need fixed or removed from the game (and give weaponsmiths a choice to join another profession at our same level.)</p></blockquote><p>Have you even considered that t1-t7 there arn't any better alternatives to MC weapons for most classes? Just because you arn't necessary in t9 doesn't mean that your class is invalid.</p>

[Kenban]

<p><cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If the difference in tokens between a BG loss and a BG win was greater with a higher number of tokens needed to buy anything, then the crafted BG stuff would have had a use. But, since the difference is just 2 tokens (3 for a win, 1 for a loss) and the tokens needed make it possible to get fully token kitted from nothing but losses in a rather short time, the crafted is.. well.. pointless.</p><p>My information on token costs/etc is from information, official and players, I have read. I have not set foot in the BGs, not out of principle or anything, just because I hadn't time really between dealing with a health issue sapping my energy and the expansion coming out and work stress (and then pre-surgery stress and prep). I might give BGs a try in a month or three. At that point I might even "need" my new appearance stuff for it's actual purpose but it would be heaps easier to just die and get the loss tokens cause the Kerra gear wouldn't be that much better than my normal stuff vs those who already got kitted out in tokens.</p></blockquote><p>I have spent hours doing Battlegrounds matches and only have 3 pieces of jewelry.  A match could take a few minutes but max is 20 minutes.  If you count zoning in/out, waiting for a match to start, and waiting in the queue for a game 20 minutes per a match would be about average I would guess.</p><p>I have not looked at the battlegrounds merchants in a few days so this is off the top of my head here.  But a piece of armor is around 80 - 100 total tokens (split evenly between two types).  There are 7 armor slots.  Even if we assume all 7 pieces only take 80 tokens thats 560 tokens ignoring the rest of the gear slots like jewelry.  If you win every match thats 187 matches.  Assuming the 20 minutes a match you are talking over 60 hours for just the 7 armor slots and thats if you win every single match.  It would take even longer when you start counting losses and getting gear other then just the 7 armor slots.</p><p>There is nothing easy or fast about getting a complete set of gear from battlegrounds.  I really don't see how its easier to get then the crafted armor.  Personally I have the far seas faction.  I just think that all of the faction recipes should be heritage.  I don't mind doing the quests and repeatable quests when needed once.  But there is no way I am doing it on all 9 of my crafters.  I would be very surprised if people are not buying the armor just because they are planning on getting the armor from the battlegrounds merchants soon.</p>

[Cerec]

<p><em><span style="color: #ff6600;">Have you even considered that t1-t7 there arn't any better alternatives to MC weapons for most classes? Just because you arn't necessary in t9 doesn't mean that your class is invalid.</span></em></p><p>I (fairly recently) leveled an SK from 1-90 and saw no reason to buy MC weapons.  First of all, leveling is so fast/easy nowadays that it's not worth the trouble to even worry about weapons other than making sure the one you're using is not green.  Secondly, if you want a good legendary/fabled, it's incredibly cheap from the broker.</p><p>I stand by my point that weaponsmith is a class without a purpose and should be either fixed or removed.  I prefer the former; however, I'd rather have the latter than to spend the next year with nothing to craft.</p>

[Meirril]

<cite>Cerec wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><em><span style="color: #ff6600;">Have you even considered that t1-t7 there arn't any better alternatives to MC weapons for most classes? Just because you arn't necessary in t9 doesn't mean that your class is invalid.</span></em></p><p> </p><p>I (fairly recently) leveled an SK from 1-90 and saw no reason to buy MC weapons.  First of all, leveling is so fast/easy nowadays that it's not worth the trouble to even worry about weapons other than making sure the one you're using is not green.  Secondly, if you want a good legendary/fabled, it's incredibly cheap from the broker.</p><p>I stand by my point that weaponsmith is a class without a purpose and should be either fixed or removed.  I prefer the former; however, I'd rather have the latter than to spend the next year with nothing to craft.</p></blockquote> If your advocating a change, then what changes do you want made? Crafted weapons underwent a huge overhaul not that long ago. Most people were quite pleased with the changes. Obviously the current status isn't good enough for you. So, what do you want? If you can't provide examples of what direction you want things to move in what your doing is just counter productive. If you want action, then try and give Domino an idea of what your want. Leaving her guessing probably means this won't be a high priority with her when she has actual ideas of how to fix other long neglected issues. Or thing that have been even more neglected like crafted jewelery.

[Odys]

<p>You need some idea? Domino already knows the way, legendary drops from dungeons are just stupid. We should get heirborn components instead that would be crafted. </p><p>Can we get quicly better than expert in dungeons ? Not really, you need an exquisite and some luck.</p><p>Comissioned crafting should be used for almost anything, at least to adjust weapons. Similarly tradable legendary should be replaced by tradable components.</p><p>In my opinion outfitters and smiths shoud be as central as sages.</p>

[gatrm]

<p><cite>VikingGamer wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So, with that in mind. Is there any reason at all to be an armorsmith? Even something slight or mostly lame?</p><p><span style="color: #ff9900;">I don't have an armorer so I don't know, but I always thought they'd be useful for when leveling alts.  Probably not the best choice for your first toon, though sometimes people buy stuff for appearance- not sure whether any of the stuff you can make looks good or not.</span></p><p>My question is, will I be able to make my own experts essense? (I am a paladin) Or will I run into the same problem with armorsmithing in that I wont realistically be able to make them while they are still useful for me?  I figure, in this regard, even being able to make my journeymans and get them researched up is better than nothing and health potions are always useful.</p><p><span style="color: #ff9900;">Yup.  A level 22 Alchemist will make level 22 fighter combat arts, so you could make your own spell upgrades if you were to keep up in level.  Plus alchemists make a lot of potions that are useful, and eventually once you get him to level 80, you will make pretty good coin selling cure potions.</span></p></blockquote><p>As far as the issue with weaponsmiths- I made a lot more money with my weaponsmith during TSO than I did with WW, Sage, or Alchemist, though Alchemist could have been close if he was max level.  I havent seen the new weaponsmith faction recipes yet, but I am hoping it's something other than the same DA/crit since all the level 90 gear is loaded with that.  I'm hoping it's potency or crit bonus. </p><p>And as a complete aside....Domino, please make it so that any class can use the ca/dps mod temp addornments.  Melee healers would love to be able to use the dps mod especially, but it's relegated to fighter/scout only...and that makes my melee warden sad...and limits my profitabiility on my weaponsmith...<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Terron]

<p><cite>EQ2Player wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>They make all scout spells, in addition to jewelry...so they're sitting pretty</p></blockquote><p>As a jeweler I disagree.</p><p>Partly that is because I bec ame a jeweler to make jewelry and am not really interested in making spells.</p><p>The other reason is that the jewelry we make below T9 is not worth making. Most of the MC stuff uses the same rares as spell upgrades so is far too expensive. The special recipes we got in RoK were rubbish. There are a couple of semi decent rings that would be OK if they only needed 1 drop from najenas rather than 3. Anyone running TSO instances repeatedly is going to have more legendary jewelry than the can use.</p><p>It is a bit early to tell with T9. I have had 1 person ask about buying some MC resistance jewelry, but not sales as yet.</p>

[Odys]

<p>Indeed the heirborn feature (that i enjoy very much) is probably a major MC killer. My mystic will inherit a large amount of level 90 legendary as soon as we get to 90.</p><p>People are rolling for alts in T8 casual raids made for fun & mythic validation in rather small teams.</p><p>The same happen when you rush a ROK instance for an epic quest.</p><p>People bags are so full that i saw people rolling for level 20 alts on VP class armor (people with higher alts passed .: well i have a full vp set in bank for my level 40 templar, or i have 600 shards for him)</p>

[EQ2Player]

<p><cite>Odys@Storms wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Indeed the heirborn feature (that i enjoy very much) is probably a major MC killer. My mystic will inherit a large amount of level 90 legendary as soon as we get to 90.</p><p>People are rolling for alts in T8 casual raids made for fun & mythic validation in rather small teams.</p><p>The same happen when you rush a ROK instance for an epic quest.</p><p>People bags are so full that i saw people rolling for level 20 alts on VP class armor (people with higher alts passed .: well i have a full vp set in bank for my level 40 templar, or i have 600 shards for him)</p></blockquote><p>I'm a sucker and play with suckers.</p><p>I expend massive amounts of time and energy raising crafting levels and faction so I can sell to the other suckers that don't play the game like Odys has described above. Seems the suckers are catching on though, and rushing to 80...afterall, thats where there are:</p><p>1) Massive amounts of cash</p><p>2) Fewer reasons to rely on rares</p><p>3) No reason to deal with crafters</p><p>4) Easy Gear Drops</p><p>5) Battlegrounds ... guess everyone Pre-80 was deemed not worthy of this "feature"</p><p>6) Etc.</p><p>Guess its time to drop this silly crafting notion and start my rush to 80...So I can get all the instant gratification stuff up in those levels, realize there isn't much depth to this game and move on. Save myself some bucks on a lousy EQ2 subscription.</p>

[Katz]

<p>It would be good if they could figure out some expendible item that each crafter type could sell.  My weaponsmith friend said that she had been making her money selling the adornments her weaponsmith could make.   She hasn't found anything that replaced that yet as far as a realible source of income. </p>

[Zehl_Ice-Fire]

<p><cite>Novusod wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You guys forgot about craftable battlegrounds armor made by tailors and armorers for level 80s and level 90s. This is the best armors for battlegrounds until you earn enough reward tokens to buy fabled BG armor. Still the weaponsmith got hosed over with no craftible BG weapons. Sure Domino could fix that if the weaponsmiths asked.</p></blockquote><p>I craft, I raid, I group, I quest, I harvest, I got all the faction recipes for my crafters but I do not do BG and doubtfully ever will other than to get enough tokens SOME DAY to get the house items. I'd like it if the recipes we work towards had use in everyday game. The carp has the only good ones. Sure I'm making some plat on the cloth & leather BG gear but, big woop, I made one of each and I've sold about 4 of them and I don't know why the stats are better in BG than game so I don't know which ones are good or less good to bother making more for the broker. I'd rather have items that I can use.</p>

[Terron]

<p><cite>Zehl_Ice-Fire wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I craft, I raid, I group, I quest, I harvest, I got all the faction recipes for my crafters but I do not do BG and doubtfully ever will other than to get enough tokens SOME DAY to get the house items. I'd like it if the recipes we work towards had use in everyday game. The carp has the only good ones.</p></blockquote><blockquote><p>Katayira: 80 DE Inquisitor/80 Alchemist</p></blockquote><p>Unless raiding is very different in T9, alchemists have quite a few good recipes (even ignoring spells): remedies, poisons, tactics, second sight, freedom of.... .</p>

[Rijacki]

<p><cite>Terron@Splitpaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Zehl_Ice-Fire wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I craft, I raid, I group, I quest, I harvest, I got all the faction recipes for my crafters but I do not do BG and doubtfully ever will other than to get enough tokens SOME DAY to get the house items. I'd like it if the recipes we work towards had use in everyday game. The carp has the only good ones.</p></blockquote><blockquote><p>Katayira: 80 DE Inquisitor/80 Alchemist</p></blockquote><p>Unless raiding is very different in T9, alchemists have quite a few good recipes (even ignoring spells): remedies, poisons, tactics, second sight, freedom of.... .</p></blockquote><p>No tactics, no second sight, no freedom of * in the T9 recipes. Only the absolute basics of the rest of the recipes.</p>

[Zehl_Ice-Fire]

<p><cite>Terron@Splitpaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Zehl_Ice-Fire wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I craft, I raid, I group, I quest, I harvest, I got all the faction recipes for my crafters but I do not do BG and doubtfully ever will other than to get enough tokens SOME DAY to get the house items. I'd like it if the recipes we work towards had use in everyday game. The carp has the only good ones.</p></blockquote><blockquote><p>Katayira: 80 DE Inquisitor/80 Alchemist</p></blockquote><p>Unless raiding is very different in T9, alchemists have quite a few good recipes (even ignoring spells): remedies, poisons, tactics, second sight, freedom of.... .</p></blockquote><p>You missed my woodworker & Provis <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. I was talking specifically of T9 faction recipes, even though I know the OP was about general crafting. I have no lack of ways to make plat with crafting if I feel like it, I have 4 crafters who use well selling consumables, (well one of those is Carp & they only make repair kits, they are lower selling), not to mention a very few tinkered items that make a little money, bags, boxes always sell too. I want some super special faction craftable, even if it's only one great thing per crafter class.</p>