Myth ability 30% of wisdom whats the point, at least after a certain point? [Archive]

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Gisallo

03-12-2010, 02:00 AM

I am pretty confused. I think I figured it out but wanted confirmation. Is the 30% of wisdom for ward related to ability mod. With my full ability mod I get jack all from it but when I take ability mod gear off I get more out of it, at least according to the numbers in Profit. So my question is amd I correct in assume once you get to a point with ability mod, this really isn't the "bomb" it used to be?

Banditman

03-12-2010, 11:24 AM

Yep, that's right. The 30% bonus is just extra ability mod added to Wards only.

Gisallo

03-12-2010, 12:22 PM

<cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yep, that's right. The 30% bonus is just extra ability mod added to Wards only.</blockquote>Thats what I thought. Guess its what you find out when you are bored of working on ACT timers and your brain is jelly at 1am <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Hene

03-12-2010, 01:20 PM

<cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yep, that's right. The 30% bonus is just extra ability mod added to Wards only.</blockquote>No, this is wrong, it acts as potency, not ability mod. Unless they just changed it.

Banditman

03-12-2010, 04:59 PM

No it doesn't. It hasn't since the Myth was released. It acted as +Heal mod back then, and as a special +ability mod now.I mean, think about for a second.30% of my 1200 Wisdom as Potency? That would make a non-crit, ST Ward, I dunno, about 10k. With that much Potency, you'd be seeing 20k ST Wards in raids.

Hene

03-12-2010, 06:37 PM

<cite>anditman wrote:</cite><blockquote>No it doesn't. It hasn't since the Myth was released. It acted as +Heal mod back then, and as a special +ability mod now.I mean, think about for a second.30% of my 1200 Wisdom as Potency? That would make a non-crit, ST Ward, I dunno, about 10k. With that much Potency, you'd be seeing 20k ST Wards in raids.</blockquote>You misunderstand what I mean by adding potency; I did not say it added percent potency, but rather an absolute base value gain (which is similar to what potency does). It does not actually add to ability mod or contribute to the capping your ability mod, rather, adding more wisdom increases the cap of you ability mod; which is the point of the OP's question. It is clearer if you look at an example:consider your ST ward with a base of 2100, ability mod will cap at 1050, or 50% of the ward value.with 1200 wisdom, 30% of 1200 is 360, so your new 'base' is 2100+360=2460, now ability mod for the ward will cap at 1230, or 50% of the new ward value. This is like adding 17% (360/2100) potency to your ST ward.Edit: Here, I've added an actual demonstration, both with my mythical equipped and all stats staying the same except wisdom. In the process I had my ability mod beyond the cap for my single target ward (in both of these my 'potency' is 2%, but I also have 10% potency added from the TSO AA line)<img src="http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/5156/withmythb.png" />I first calculate percentage potency, then add mythical wisdom-potency, both before calculating the max ability mod:Modified 'base' calculation: 2100*1.12 + 30% * 1077 Wis = 2352 + 323 = 26751/2*2675 = 13382675+1338 = 4013<img src="http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/1717/withmytha.png" />Again, I first calculate percentage potency, then add mythical wisdom-potency, both before calculating the max ability mod:Modified 'base' calculation: 2100*1.12 + 30% * 1122 Wis = 2352 + 337 = 26891/2*2675 = 13442689+1338 = 4033 (1 point off from rounding)From this you can see that the heal amount added from wisdom acts like potency for all intensive purposesEdit: Typo

wardman

03-16-2010, 07:44 PM

Very insiteful. A quick question however. I may be missing how this calculates. I just did my Epic Repurcussion Quest last night. While nothing else changed in my gear or abilities i have now gained about 450 to my ST ward. Is this because the base amount of my lvl 88 ST ward was higher? I know the old myth's do not reflect on the lvl 88 ST but not fully understanding the big increase according to your post. Please set me straight.

Hene

03-16-2010, 11:52 PM

<cite>wardman wrote:</cite><blockquote>Very insiteful. A quick question however. I may be missing how this calculates. I just did my Epic Repurcussion Quest last night. While nothing else changed in my gear or abilities i have now gained about 450 to my ST ward. Is this because the base amount of my lvl 88 ST ward was higher? I know the old myth's do not reflect on the lvl 88 ST but not fully understanding the big increase according to your post. Please set me straight.</blockquote>Well, I'm not sure if I understand exactly what you are asking. Since the mythical weapon does not apply to wards greater than level 80, you would not have seen any bonuses from it on your lv 88 ward. Once you convert it (from Epic Repurcussions), it now will add to your lv 88 ward. lets say that you had about 1500 wisdom, once you finished the quest, now 30% of that (about 450) will be added to your single target ward (assuming you are not yet capped on potency).Is that what you were asking?

Gisallo

03-17-2010, 01:06 AM

<cite>Hene wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>wardman wrote:</cite><blockquote>Very insiteful. A quick question however. I may be missing how this calculates. I just did my Epic Repurcussion Quest last night. While nothing else changed in my gear or abilities i have now gained about 450 to my ST ward. Is this because the base amount of my lvl 88 ST ward was higher? I know the old myth's do not reflect on the lvl 88 ST but not fully understanding the big increase according to your post. Please set me straight.</blockquote>Well, I'm not sure if I understand exactly what you are asking. Since the mythical weapon does not apply to wards greater than level 80, you would not have seen any bonuses from it on your lv 88 ward. Once you convert it (from Epic Repurcussions), it now will add to your lv 88 ward. lets say that you had about 1500 wisdom, once you finished the quest, now 30% of that (about 450) will be added to your single target ward (assuming you are not yet capped on potency).Is that what you were asking?</blockquote>When u mention potency you now confuse me. I am not capped on potency (around 36% atm). However I have over 1300 Mod. I thought it was mod that was effecting it, not potency, because I get less than 100 add to my ST ward with a Wis in excess of 1300 as well.

Hene

03-17-2010, 01:45 AM

<cite>Gisallo wrote:</cite><blockquote>When u mention potency you now confuse me. I am not capped on potency (around 36% atm). However I have over 1300 Mod. I thought it was mod that was effecting it, not potency, because I get less than 100 add to my ST ward with a Wis in excess of 1300 as well.</blockquote>You get less than 100 added, in reference to what? Keep in mind that the bonus is not percent potency, but rather absolute potency or plus to base value. This means that until you get close to the cap on ability mod or potency, you will not be able to tell a difference between this mythical-wisdom bonus and ability mod.If you do not understand it still, I would suggest re-reading my post above, with the screenshots of two ward values and the math to go along with it, however I will restate it tersely-For a ward whose base value is 2400, if you have:1) 36% potency (including heal stance and the ward AA potency)2) 1300 Wisdom3) 2300 Spell modThe ward will now have a base value of about 2400*1.36 (percent potency from gear, stance and AA)+30%*1300 (absolute potency from mythical-wisdom bonus) = 3654Since ability mod is capped at 1/2 of a spell's base value, the cap in this example is 3654/2=1827, so in this situation the ward will cast for 3654+1827 (ability mod cap for this spell)=5481Until you get close to the cap of either heal mod or potency, the actual mechanics willl not be apparent or impactive. Just to reiterate (in large font to grab your attention <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /> )Even if you are capped on ability mod, the mythical-wisdom bonus will affect your wards until you are capped on potencyEdit: Coloring

Banditman

03-17-2010, 11:19 AM

So, what you're saying then is that they have in fact injected "ability mod" at two different places in the equation.Normally: ( (base * potency * stat) + ability mod )Your theory: ( ( ( Base + Myth mod ) * potency * stat ) + ability mod )In which case, it is *extremely* valuable to increase your Wisdom since that "mod" happens so early in the overall calculation it's value affects EVERYTHING.

Malicorp

03-17-2010, 11:43 AM

Here's what I think is being suggested...BASE = [(Inherent x Potency) + 30%Wis].... Capped when [(Inherent x Potency) + 30% Wis] = 2 x Inherent (aka 100% total increase)Then Ability Mod Cap = .5 x BASESo, total non-crit ward would be: [(Inherent x Potency)+ 30%Wis] + ability modWhen it crits: {[(Inherent x Potency)+ 30%Wis] + ability mod} x Crit BonusTherefore, the Mystic's Wisdom serves to supplement your potency up to the point of capping where it and other potency gear add nothing. Since Potency is difficult to cap at this point, the Wis modifier is very useful. Your overall assumption holds true that Wis IS valuable, if the assertion made here is true, given that it applies early in the process. In this suggested equation, 30% Wis affects your total Base amount, your ability mod cap and the potential size of your crits.I cannot confirm that this is absolutely correct other than to say I've tested a low potency/ high ability mod gear set-up and putting up the Wis-mod buff still impacts the ward amont over what should be the base cap. Therefore, it IS NOT equal to ability mod.Note: Inherent in the above equation refers to the amount that the spell quality (Master Spell, Ad2, etc) measured displays at for a level 1 character with no modifiers.

Malicorp

03-17-2010, 01:19 PM

Ok, if you aren't math savy, you may want to avert your eyes...What I'm trying to determine is the relative value of adding more Wisdom compared to adding items that are simply +potency. Since potency is a % based item and the 30% Wis is a flat number, the relationship will vary based on the inherent ward size number you are applying your potency to. For example, when comparing wards of 1000 and 2000, 10% potency translates to 100 or 200 flat increase. So, to test the contribution of wisdom at various ward levels, I've done the following.... I took a singular ward value (for example, 2000) factored in the Myth Bonuses at a range of wisdoms (500-2000 Wis), then divided the resulting modified total (inherent ward value + 30% wis)/ inherent to determine the equivalent % increase (potency). By comparing 500Wis to 600Wis within the same inherent ward size (2000), I was able to calculate the contribution of 100 Wis at this ward size. I repeated this over a series of ward values ranging from 2000-8000.... here are my findingsInherent (Base) Ward | Potency Equivalent per 100 Wis 2000 1.5 3000 1.0 4000 0.75 5000 0.6 6000 0.5 7000 0.43 8000 0.375Conclusion:As the Base ward sizes increases, the relative value of adding each point of Wisdom decreases. (For example, 1000 Wisdom adds the equivalent of 10% Potency to a 3000 point base ward, whereas that same 1000 Wisdom adds only 7.5% potency to a 4000 point ward)*I can plug in the exact values of the T9 Wards at Master and Adept III levels to tell you exactly how much "potency" you get per 100 Wis. Should make gear comparisons much easier.

Banditman

03-17-2010, 02:52 PM

So you capped your Mod, with Myth Buff not applied. You then applied the Myth buff and gained Ward amount. That definitely points to the Myth buff value being applied much earlier in the equation than Ability Mod.Another question to be answered is how this is applied to a Group Ward. As you know, our Group Ward benefits far less from "standard" Ability Mod than Single Target Wards do. However, in this case, perhaps the "Ability Mod" from the Myth buff is not reduced effectiveness as regular Ability Mod is, in which case, even more valuable still.

Hene

03-17-2010, 05:20 PM

That is correct debase.<cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote>So you capped your Mod, with Myth Buff not applied. You then applied the Myth buff and gained Ward amount. That definitely points to the Myth buff value being applied much earlier in the equation than Ability Mod.Another question to be answered is how this is applied to a Group Ward. As you know, our Group Ward benefits far less from "standard" Ability Mod than Single Target Wards do. However, in this case, perhaps the "Ability Mod" from the Myth buff is not reduced effectiveness as regular Ability Mod is, in which case, even more valuable still.</blockquote>It is applied to the group ward in exactly the same manner. And our group ward does not benefit any less from "standard" ability mod than our ST ward does (however it benefits significantly less than our group heal). If anything, I would say that the Group ward can benefit more than the single target ward because of its extremely high cap.if the base value of your group ward is 4000. With 25% potency, it is now 5000. This means the ability mod caps at 2500. Whereas an ST ward with a base of 2400 and 25% potency will only cap at 2400*1.25*0.5=1500.I do not see what you mean by<cite>Banditman wrote:</cite> <blockquote>However, in this case, perhaps the "Ability Mod" from the Myth buff is not reduced effectiveness as regular Ability Mod is, in which case, even more valuable still.</blockquote> Neither are reduced in effectiveness, unless I am misunderstanding what you are asking.(Edit: confusing and inaccurate stuff taken out)

wardman

03-17-2010, 10:16 PM

You have answered my question perfectly, Thanks.

Banditman

03-18-2010, 09:51 AM

It's simple.Ability mod, when applied to an "AE" spell such as a Group Ward or Group Heal, is only applied at one third normal strength. So if I have 1000 Ability Mod, only 333 gets applied to a "Group" spell. At least, that's the way it used to work. I know it still works that way for damage spells, but I haven't actually done an inspection to be sure it's still working that way for Group beneficials.This is why Wrath's Blessing is such an effective buff for a Shaman. I've seen 5k "Ability Mod" from Wrath's Blessing before, and this is way back in the "old days". I really haven't looked at it and watched it change recently. Nevertheless, this made Wrath's Blessing a significant and important buff for Shaman, because even at one third value, 1600 is a significant amount to add to a Group Ward for a tank group Shaman.

Hene

03-18-2010, 11:34 AM

<cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote>It's simple.Ability mod, when applied to an "AE" spell such as a Group Ward or Group Heal, is only applied at one third normal strength. So if I have 1000 Ability Mod, only 333 gets applied to a "Group" spell. At least, that's the way it used to work. I know it still works that way for damage spells, but I haven't actually done an inspection to be sure it's still working that way for Group beneficials.This is why Wrath's Blessing is such an effective buff for a Shaman. I've seen 5k "Ability Mod" from Wrath's Blessing before, and this is way back in the "old days". I really haven't looked at it and watched it change recently. Nevertheless, this made Wrath's Blessing a significant and important buff for Shaman, because even at one third value, 1600 is a significant amount to add to a Group Ward for a tank group Shaman.</blockquote>I see what you are saying now, this does not apply to group wards, only to group heals. For group wards you get the full amount of ability mod applied.

profe

03-24-2010, 07:04 AM

What Hene said, it is additional raw potency before your ability mod cap is determined. Very desirable, indeed!