Mystic Questions. [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

Azsreial

03-11-2010, 07:21 AM

This post is a question and perferably to a developer or someone of better knowledge than the average player. If you wish to flame something please GO TO EQ2 flames and do it there.Firstly, whats with the mystic class? Is there no love for the class as a healer? I want to know why our end line for the mystic tree is a dps proc, instead of helping us with heals? Also defilers are used primarily as tank healers because of all of their mana regen tricks, they wards apparently hit harder, and they have more tricks to keep up the tank.Now don't get me wrong, Im all for making a class like the defiler more a a MT group shaman. However some of their debuffs are better as well from what Im understanding. So basically where is the balance? The AA adition from a defiler adds to their group ward, their heal gets an AA in the defiler tree, and I would say one of the cooler and more unique things about the mystic is now give to the defiler as well with the cures giving wards when cured.I have only been playing the game a year, and the mystic for 4 months and in this xpac it seems the mystic is going to be benched for defilers or wardens, even furies.I am just wondering why the mystic is being side lined from the heal spec and basically being told to go dps. Multiple examples, TSO gear we have to be doing DPS to proc the heals or wards from our set gear, other classes are casting beneficial spells and their things to proc.Our debuffs are considered hostile spells so when we are in heal stance they are costing more mana so debuffing because costly for us. This should also be considered with the changes to Torpor, Bolster, Oberon, and Ancestral Sentry. Which now continue to drain our mana with a mana tic for each spell. This issue became even a further hinderence when our spell Spirit Tap was nerfed from a 5min recast to a 10min recast, because i quote "This spell was deemed over powered". I will infact admit with the way some of this new content is, yes it is over powered. Yet please through a bone for mana regen another way. With this the endline for a defiler is an amazing debuff that kinda puts ours to shame, not to mention Umbral trap and its upgrade in the defiler AA line.Lastly, this xpac is full on AOE killing spree, specially now that they increased the damage of all AoE's by something huge like 200% (dont quote me on that just feels that way). So we have our group ward, our group heal and our new group hot that lasts 2 seconds (Not including the emergency group ward because of the lengthy recast). That means that if our timing is off just once our group is dead. I like the new heal and I think that was done perfectly, yet both classes get it. Again all good with that, just trying to say toss the mystic a bone and give us a bit of an update please.So please tell me, is there any hope for improvement on the mystic class? Or should i join the thousands of others and betray defiler already?Again this is mostly for a developer or a very knowledgable individual to reply to. If you dont have something constructive to say please dont say it.

Malicorp

03-11-2010, 11:38 AM

To Preface: I was a raiding Mystic through the end of RoK, then became a MT defiler during the first half of TSO and I went back to a raiding Mystic during the later half of TSO into SF (the defiler and second mystic portion being done in the top raid guilds on their respective servers).Now, to your post.... I almost feel like we're playing 2 different games and/or classes because I can't find a single assessment that I really agree with...1.) As a warding class, Mystics have an inherent advantage over a reactive or regenerative class when it comes to healing output as wards are used first and are equally as effective if the recipient is at 100% health versus 5% health.2.) Healing output - I honestly don't know that defilers truly have anything better as far as healing/warding. Perhaps their generic group and single wards have more capacity, but they do not have an ability like Torpor or Oberon either, so I'm not sure where the dramatic difference lies. Because of our CA conversions, we have the ability to utilize the SF Agi endline (Spiritual Leadership) in the Shaman tree more effectively than Defilers. We also have the capacity to add wards to cures through the Immunization line in the Mystic tree. Our regenerating Noxious Ward is an amazing ability on those fights where there is any noxious damage what-so-ever. In harder raids as an OT shaman, I am rarely that far behind our MT defiler in healing output3.) Debuffs - Of the healing classes, both Shaman have the most effective debuffs imo. Defilers are slightly better with their SF endline ability (and a mediocre Hexation, I suppose), but the difference is certainly not as evident as...4.) Utility - Mystics with Ancestry, Bolster, Stampede, massive str buffing capacity, etc are incredibly superior scout buffers to Defilers. In fact, I'd argue that a second defiler on anyone's roster probably has as hard a time as any healer to find a suitable group.5.) DPS - Yes, we're a healing class... but it speaks to versatility when you can win a heal parse on a named, then parse 20k on another fight. Normally, jack-of-all means master of none, but in this case, we're capable of doing just about everything well and lack the some of the glaring deficiencies of other healers, including Defilers. I'd rank Mystics right up near Templars for the most powerful healing classes if placed in the right hands.

Banditman

03-11-2010, 12:41 PM

<cite>Azsreial wrote:</cite><blockquote>Firstly, whats with the mystic class? Is there no love for the class as a healer? I want to know why our end line for the mystic tree is a dps proc, instead of helping us with heals? Also defilers are used primarily as tank healers because of all of their mana regen tricks, they wards apparently hit harder, and they have more tricks to keep up the tank.Last night I ran in the OT group through Lair and Labs, Defiler in MT group. Our healing was very close to equal. Probably within 10% of each other. If I were in the MT group, I have no doubt that I would have outhealed her.Now don't get me wrong, Im all for making a class like the defiler more a a MT group shaman. However some of their debuffs are better as well from what Im understanding. So basically where is the balance? The AA adition from a defiler adds to their group ward, their heal gets an AA in the defiler tree, and I would say one of the cooler and more unique things about the mystic is now give to the defiler as well with the cures giving wards when cured.Those cure AA's are wasted. I've run with them in beta and for a few weeks live. They are terrible. Just awful. Defilers can have them. I'll keep that spec in a mirror for PvP, but only because I need it for Immunities, which is a godsend in PvP.Defiler debuffs are different. Better? I dunno. Different. They have some neat stuff. So do we.I have only been playing the game a year, and the mystic for 4 months and in this xpac it seems the mystic is going to be benched for defilers or wardens, even furies.Druids got a LOT of attention this expansion, and good for them. They are FAR, FAR better healers of a group than either Shaman is. They have many ways to replace HP across a group, where we have only one. However, you can never replace a Shaman in a tank group. Going without Wards is just suicide against a raid mob. Most raids are running six healers these days. Tank groups are going Shaman/Cleric. Solo healers in the other two groups are generally Fury and Inquisitor. Wardens are the ones who are really screwed. There is just no great reason to take one. It's not that Wardens can't do the job - they can! There is simply no compelling reason to take one if a Fury or Inquisitor is available.I am just wondering why the mystic is being side lined from the heal spec and basically being told to go dps. Multiple examples, TSO gear we have to be doing DPS to proc the heals or wards from our set gear, other classes are casting beneficial spells and their things to proc.Gear selection is up to you. Choose wisely. Choose what works for you. There are plenty of items that proc on beneficial, I still employ them. I have two items from RoK era raids that I still haven't replaced simply because they proc the way I want them to proc. I have three or four more pieces of gear from RoK era that I use situationally, again, because I haven't found anything equivalent.Our debuffs are considered hostile spells so when we are in heal stance they are costing more mana so debuffing because costly for us. This should also be considered with the changes to Torpor, Bolster, Oberon, and Ancestral Sentry. Which now continue to drain our mana with a mana tic for each spell. This issue became even a further hinderence when our spell Spirit Tap was nerfed from a 5min recast to a 10min recast, because i quote "This spell was deemed over powered". I will infact admit with the way some of this new content is, yes it is over powered. Yet please through a bone for mana regen another way. With this the endline for a defiler is an amazing debuff that kinda puts ours to shame, not to mention Umbral trap and its upgrade in the defiler AA line.All debuffs are considered hostile spells. We have no special distinction there. Power can be an issue if you do not understand how to gear yourself. I generally don't have power problems, but then again, I have learned through long experience how to assure myself that I don't. Spirit Tap has a BASE re-use of 10 minutes. Mine is down under 8 now in a raid, and I'm working hard to lower it further. I wouldn't mind seeing it reduced to a base of about 7.5 - 8 minutes.Lastly, this xpac is full on AOE killing spree, specially now that they increased the damage of all AoE's by something huge like 200% (dont quote me on that just feels that way). So we have our group ward, our group heal and our new group hot that lasts 2 seconds (Not including the emergency group ward because of the lengthy recast). That means that if our timing is off just once our group is dead. I like the new heal and I think that was done perfectly, yet both classes get it. Again all good with that, just trying to say toss the mystic a bone and give us a bit of an update please.It was, approximately, a 100% increase. It just means that you can't simply ignore resistances. You have to use all the tools. We were getting OWNED by one of the mobs in Labs on Saturday. I mean just brutally smashed. He has three arcane AE's that fire off in rapid succession.We went back in there on Monday, with everyone in the raid sitting over 14k resist. The fight was trivial, and even, gasp, fun.Ancestral Channeling was not meant as a primary heal. It was meant as something useful in a semi-emergency situation. It's mostly for those cases where, for whatever reason, the entire group ends up orange or red. That shouldn't happen very often. If it does, chances are, you're doing something wrong.And yes, once again, Mystics strength does not lie in healing an entire group. We just don't have the same tools that an Druid or Inquisitor has. Those classes have TWO group cures and a lot more ways to replace lost HP. If you want to solo heal a group, you are going to struggle.So please tell me, is there any hope for improvement on the mystic class? Or should i join the thousands of others and betray defiler already?If you want to betray, do it. There has never been a better time. Epic weapon is just an NPC away. Very few Masters have been scribed. Right now is the ideal time to betray. Do it. I assure you however, the grass is not always greener.As far as your claim of "thousands' of people betraying to Defiler . . . puuhhhleeeez. Mystic and Defiler numbers are almost equal, and have been for a number of years.Again this is mostly for a developer or a very knowledgable individual to reply to. If you dont have something constructive to say please dont say it.</blockquote>

Azsreial

03-11-2010, 04:35 PM

Banditman and Debase I truly appreciate the replies without sarcasm or insults. Thanks for the input!

Hene

03-11-2010, 05:33 PM

First off, I'd just like to point out that each of the Priest Sub-classes contains both a 'heal' and 'dps' proficient healer. For Druids, wardens are heal oriented and furies are dps; clerics, templars are heal, inqui dps; and shamans, defilers are heal, and mystic dps.With that said, the point of the mystic class is to heal, as well as bring moderate dps, buffs, debuffs, and therefore more support in general<cite>Azsreial wrote:</cite><blockquote>This post is a question and perferably to a developer or someone of better knowledge than the average player. If you wish to flame something please GO TO EQ2 flames and do it there.As for xp, Ive been playing a mystic since early '05 and raided my fair share as an MT mystic in TSO (as well as tried out the whole OT shaman/DPS group shaman thing).Firstly, whats with the mystic class? Is there no love for the class as a healer? I want to know why our end line for the mystic tree is a dps proc, instead of helping us with heals? Also defilers are used primarily as tank healers because of all of their mana regen tricks, they wards apparently hit harder, and they have more tricks to keep up the tank.As has been said, mystics are the 'less heal based' shaman class; however, do not forget the Shaman SF endline, it is a purely heal based spell. Defilers have more 'oh-crap' spell, but mystics have some tricks of thier own like Torpor and Bolster and Oberon and Ancestral Sentry.Now don't get me wrong, Im all for making a class like the defiler more a a MT group shaman. However some of their debuffs are better as well from what Im understanding. So basically where is the balance? The AA adition from a defiler adds to their group ward, their heal gets an AA in the defiler tree, and I would say one of the cooler and more unique things about the mystic is now give to the defiler as well with the cures giving wards when cured.Also, has been said already, but defilers just have different debuffs, ours are just as good in most situations, they just may take a bit longer to get cycled in <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> . Mystics get some nice heal-boosting AAs in the shadows lines as well; about half of the useful AAs in the mystic line are devoted to enhancing buffs, which is greatI have only been playing the game a year, and the mystic for 4 months and in this xpac it seems the mystic is going to be benched for defilers or wardens, even furies.Overall, mystics make finely capable MT healers or OT healers or even DPS group healers (but AoEs are a PITA to heal through for some)I am just wondering why the mystic is being side lined from the heal spec and basically being told to go dps. Multiple examples, TSO gear we have to be doing DPS to proc the heals or wards from our set gear, other classes are casting beneficial spells and their things to proc.With Oberon, Stoicism, Ancestral Sentry, and wards in general, Mystic maintain a great deal of healing power, if played effectively. But the main purpose of a mystic is a support/dps/healer, bringing all 3 of those in things to a group or raid.Our debuffs are considered hostile spells so when we are in heal stance they are costing more mana so debuffing because costly for us. This should also be considered with the changes to Torpor, Bolster, Oberon, and Ancestral Sentry. Which now continue to drain our mana with a mana tic for each spell. This issue became even a further hinderence when our spell Spirit Tap was nerfed from a 5min recast to a 10min recast, because i quote "This spell was deemed over powered". I will infact admit with the way some of this new content is, yes it is over powered. Yet please through a bone for mana regen another way. With this the endline for a defiler is an amazing debuff that kinda puts ours to shame, not to mention Umbral trap and its upgrade in the defiler AA line.I do think we got the short stick when it comes to mana regen. Spirit Tap was about the only thing keeping us in there, as far as lasting in long fights goes. Our mystic end-line, Stampede, is an amazing DPS group buff. It significantly increases damage output and I can imagine it will soon be quite popular with those scout DPSers <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />Lastly, this xpac is full on AOE killing spree, specially now that they increased the damage of all AoE's by something huge like 200% (dont quote me on that just feels that way). So we have our group ward, our group heal and our new group hot that lasts 2 seconds (Not including the emergency group ward because of the lengthy recast). That means that if our timing is off just once our group is dead. I like the new heal and I think that was done perfectly, yet both classes get it. Again all good with that, just trying to say toss the mystic a bone and give us a bit of an update please.AoE healing has always been our weak point. Some ways to help with this are the Kindred Restoration AA, Single Target warding/healing group members other than the tank (if you have one), and getting some AE heal-proc gear.So please tell me, is there any hope for improvement on the mystic class? Or should i join the thousands of others and betray defiler already?Personally, I am completely content playing my mystic; I have played him since '05 and don't ever plan on betraying, actually I don't know any mystic who has betrayed this Xpac yet. Mystics have arguably the same healing power as defilers and can DPS with the best of 'em, so no reason not to play a mystic imo.Again this is mostly for a developer or a very knowledgable individual to reply to. If you dont have something constructive to say please dont say it.</blockquote>

KatrinaDeath

03-11-2010, 06:59 PM

Went Defiler to Mystic shortly before RoK. Best decision I ever made!Banditman's input/logic is gold.