Battlegrounds Fair? I know. It's not the gear right? [Archive]

Shorcon

03-07-2010, 05:37 AM

Here is the break down. Blue servers are now earning a whoping 1 piece to 3 pieces of gear vs pvp servers. When I heard Battlegrounds were coming to Eq2 I was stoked. The game needed a new aspect. Though some people were against it due to lowering peek population in the real.... well non battleground world others saw it as a way for Eq2 to make a comeback. I have many friends who play Wow avidly. Eq2 battlegrounds has been the focus of our conversations since bg release. I am having a hard time understanding how soe can justify allowing higher specs for one server over another on the release of something this important to the games shot at surviving. As is, our server has very few raid guilds and new raid guilds are impossible to start. We need more population. Battlegrounds would be a solid answer to this but ................. well houston we have a problem.I can understand being owned to nagafens supreme playstyle alone. I would definitly expect it at first. This isnt the case though. I am not only playing against well versed pvp players, but I am also playing against much superior gear. You have basicaly said this. "We are going to make a really cool battleground thing that everyone can play. It's gonna be dope. And you pvpers will love the fact that your gear will work for it. Oh and you pvpers will love this fact also. There gear wont." Now we have full nagy and vox premade 24's in smuggs and mix matched blues getting owned on a regular. "Wait pvpers. We're not done. We are also gonna give you kill tokens to spend on your server for pvp gear that the blue servers cant get." I have no idea what the thought process was on this one soe but you were wrong and need to fix it soon. I personally want bg's to work. I am loosing the faith of my guild though and fast. I keep telling them dont worry. Soe will do something. They have to right? I wouldnt wait to fix this. BG is NOT PvP. They have to be totally seperated. BG gear for BG and PVP gear for PVP. Then we can see who owns who for real. May take some time for us blue noobs but we will get there. If you dont change this soon we will be seeing more populations dropping.Already due to the release of Battlegrounds server populations have dropped. People are upset there are no groups running. My guild personaly cant understand why I am so into Battlegrounds and wants me to get over this and just get back to pve. I am sure I am not the only one. We as the majority of your clients want this changed. Will you listen?

Naggasaki

03-07-2010, 05:47 AM

In regards to the gear, i'm not sure what new gear you're referring to that we can get. While, I haven't looked at ALL of the PvP gear, I know the gear the Discord merchant offers to sell me for my overworld PvP tokens has the same stats as the Battlegrounds armor. The only difference I can see is the appearance, which blows my mind because they have the same name. 0.oAnyway, if you're on a PvE server and want PvP gear, you now have to play battlegrounds to get it. If you are playing on a PvP server, you can PvP in open world while que'd for battlegrounds giving you a second form of currency to purchase PvP armor.But I think the real difference is, I'll drop my 'hunting' for a BG group when it pops. Will you drop an Avatar pull for a BG group? (i doubt it) Its a choice you make at character select. Every choice we make has pro's and con's. /shrug.While we're at it, let me just point something out. I've only been in pre-mades in BG's maybe twice. Most of the time it's pug'd. and when i'm in a group that is all PvE minus me...most of the time it's a lemming effect. 'EVERY MAN, WOMAN AND CHILD FOR HIMSELF' which really cheeses me off because I enjoy killing other players in a coordinated manner. I think that, even though you are on a PvE server, you could put together a group of 'known' players that you KNOW and that they KNOW their class. Que THAT group up. I know you don't just hide in your guild / guild hall and don't talk to anyone outside guild. (just a thought)

Kyaaadaa

03-07-2010, 05:59 AM

<cite>Shorcon wrote:</cite><blockquote>Here is the break down. Blue servers are now earning a whoping 1 piece to 3 pieces of gear vs pvp servers. When I heard Battlegrounds were coming to Eq2 I was stoked. The game needed a new aspect. Though some people were against it due to lowering peek population in the real.... well non battleground world others saw it as a way for Eq2 to make a comeback. I have many friends who play Wow avidly. Eq2 battlegrounds has been the focus of our conversations since bg release. I am having a hard time understanding how soe can justify allowing higher specs for one server over another on the release of something this important to the games shot at surviving. As is, our server has very few raid guilds and new raid guilds are impossible to start. We need more population. Battlegrounds would be a solid answer to this but ................. well houston we have a problem.I can understand being owned to nagafens supreme playstyle alone. I would definitly expect it at first. This isnt the case though. I am not only playing against well versed pvp players, but I am also playing against much superior gear. You have basicaly said this. "We are going to make a really cool battleground thing that everyone can play. It's gonna be dope. And you pvpers will love the fact that your gear will work for it. Oh and you pvpers will love this fact also. There gear wont." Now we have full nagy and vox premade 24's in smuggs and mix matched blues getting owned on a regular. "Wait pvpers. We're not done. We are also gonna give you kill tokens to spend on your server for pvp gear that the blue servers cant get." I have no idea what the thought process was on this one soe but you were wrong and need to fix it soon. I personally want bg's to work. I am loosing the faith of my guild though and fast. I keep telling them dont worry. Soe will do something. They have to right? I wouldnt wait to fix this. BG is NOT PvP. They have to be totally seperated. BG gear for BG and PVP gear for PVP. Then we can see who owns who for real. May take some time for us blue noobs but we will get there. If you dont change this soon we will be seeing more populations dropping.Already due to the release of Battlegrounds server populations have dropped. People are upset there are no groups running. My guild personaly cant understand why I am so into Battlegrounds and wants me to get over this and just get back to pve. I am sure I am not the only one. We as the majority of your clients want this changed. Will you listen?</blockquote>One thing that has me floored atm... PvP armor loses a chunk of power when used in PvE... you're essentially BGing for a set of gear that is only viable in BG. For Nagafen players, we're out BGing and head-hunting for a set of gear that we are going to use every day, every hour, possibly every minute. We need that gear, we need it now, or we're going to smoke checked by full PvP gear wearing Nagafen players they same way you Bluebies are when you hop into a BG match. You are complaining about basically a trophy set of gear that will see maybe 10% of your actual game play use when PvP server people are working desperately to get that same gear so we don't get plowed over. You should probably head your guild's advice, and get the gear that's going to do you the most good. I don't fault bluebies going to BG to taste PvP, to get gear that will help them in BG, but screaming that you can't keep up with people who aren't doing this as a weekend get-away but more of survival of the fittest is only going to get you flamed.

Shorcon

03-07-2010, 07:09 AM

You are again acting like bg's are for nagy and vox exclusively. It's not. You are the minority in bg's and soe needs to even the playing field. You called my BG gear trophy gear. Lol. You should not be finding a need for your BG gear in normal pvp play. This is my point. BG's are BG's. PvP is PvP. There is a difference. Add toughness to our t3 and t4. I am not sure what the total solution is but i want to get owned to nagy and vox skill, not gear.You respondents to this post are seriously misunderstanding my whole point. BG's can fix low population PVP and PVE. It has to be fair to the entire platform. Not just you minority servers. [Removed for Content]. Read your words. Not biast are ya? Last I heard Vox was almost dead. Dont you want more peeps?

Kyaaadaa

03-07-2010, 07:22 AM

<cite>Shorcon wrote:</cite><blockquote>You are again acting like bg's are for nagy and vox exclusively. It's not. You are the minority in bg's and soe needs to even the playing field. You called my BG gear trophy gear. Lol. You should not be finding a need for your BG gear in normal pvp play. This is my point. BG's are BG's. PvP is PvP. There is a difference. Add toughness to our t3 and t4. I am not sure what the total solution is but i want to get owned to nagy and vox skill, not gear.You respondents to this post are seriously misunderstanding my whole point. BG's can fix low population PVP and PVE. It has to be fair to the entire platform. Not just you minority servers. [Removed for Content]. Read your words. Not biast are ya? Last I heard Vox was almost dead. Dont you want more peeps? </blockquote>Maybe you need to read your words. BG is PvP last I looked, more to the point PvP for PvE people, since you are obviously the majority. As for not needing the BG (PvP) gear, ya, we do. Until BG gear is rendered useless in content areas outside BG, it can and will become a staple PvP set for overland PvP on Nagafen and Vox. You are worried about your performance over a very limited enviroment, while I am worried about my performance based on my PvP existance 90% of my gameplay (the other 10% being in immunity while in town).As for your original comment about catering to the servers, you cannot lump PvP servers into PvE because even the most basic gameplay has a completely different game aspect in that you are constantly being assaulted by mobs that, for all intents and purposes, are equivalent to triple ups that can one shot you, and you don't even know they're there. Of course I'm going to be biast, but you need to either roll a toon on a PvP server (may your days be filled with griefing) or realize that you have a very cushionable game play with no threat outside mobs that have definitive wandering paths, set aggro ranges and predictable combat stratagies that PvP players have voluntarily given up to engage in a much more strenuous existance of constant combat over greater odds.As a side, on your next BG match, drop a chest with a ton of your hard earned gold and maybe some items. Then Q.Q that someone stole your stuff and welcome to our life.

Naggasaki

03-07-2010, 07:24 AM

To be honest, if BG gear only worked in BG, I'd never go anywhere near it. With that said, didn't you state that BG's was supposed to be for PvE and PvP servers alike? If there is ZERO reward for PvP players aside from a trophy set of gear, why on EARTH would we go? For the PvE servers, it allows you to 'day trip to the local PvP spa' instead of w/e it is you do on PvE servers between quests, instances, raids, and (not trying to be nasty) RP events.I'd even venture to say that MOST of vox and naggy would steer clear of it as well, considering the current issues that have been happening with people's characters. BG's isn't a 'break' for us. It's what we do anyway. Why on earth would we 'leave PvP' so we could go 'PvP' in a different set of gear? The logic here is flawed. If you sincerely think that we should not be able to use this gear outside of BG's, I formally invite you to come to nagafen, level to 90 and then come say you don't need that gear. (and I don't mean level to 90 by hiding in instances all day long either).I am mildly upset that we didn't get 'unique' PvP gear, but can you honestly expect the Devs to create something TOTALLY seperate from what they already made, to work on game mechanics that they JUST changed? I would not be surprised to see NEW PvP armor hit the streets on Naggy or Vox in the next coming months but for now...well, Come on over. You can even get into a nice Avatar killing guild that will appease your PvE itch. (by the way, they own you day in and day out with their PvE gear that you have ready access to)Their name.....Onyx

Crismorn

03-07-2010, 07:33 AM

Add some toughness to TSO tier 2-4 set pieces.

Kyaaadaa

03-07-2010, 07:34 AM

I do actually believe that we do BG to take a "break" from PvP. In BG, you see people's class and know how many of them there are. You're not surprised like we are when we're killing mobs for quests when a group of players roll in four deep and ràpe our face for a writ update. This is more like "fisher-price PvP for the PvE" and "PvP vacation for the punch-drunk Nagafen peeps".

Kyaaadaa

03-07-2010, 07:35 AM

<cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Add some toughness to TSO tier 2-4 set pieces.</blockquote>God says no.

Orthureon

03-07-2010, 10:36 AM

<cite>Shorcon wrote:</cite><blockquote>You are again acting like bg's are for nagy and vox exclusively. It's not. You are the minority in bg's and soe needs to even the playing field. - Just curious, if the PVP players are the minority, why is it then that all PVE players make like all they fight is geared-to-the-teeth PVP people??? Btw I get one shotted by blue server mages ALL the time. Sorry maybe 2-3 shotted.You should not be finding a need for your BG gear in normal pvp play. This is my point. BG's are BG's. PvP is PvP.- Might want to do some research before you make bold statements like this one. THe current SF PVP gear is an EXACT copy of BGs gear. You respondents to this post are seriously misunderstanding my whole point. BG's can fix low population PVP and PVE. It has to be fair to the entire platform. Not just you minority servers. [Removed for Content]. Read your words. Not biast are ya? Last I heard Vox was almost dead. Dont you want more peeps? Also, why would BGs help Vox out? If anything players on Vox will simply up and quit move to a blue server and get their PVP fix in the BGs. Think about it for a second, so you take the few active PVP players from Vox and throw them in BGs, BAM no more people to fight in the overland zones (aka no PVP </blockquote>

Armironhead

03-07-2010, 10:48 AM

<cite>Shorcon wrote:</cite><blockquote>Here is the break down. Blue servers are now earning a whoping 1 piece to 3 pieces of gear vs pvp servers. When I heard Battlegrounds were coming to Eq2 I was stoked. The game needed a new aspect. Though some people were against it due to lowering peek population in the real.... well non battleground world others saw it as a way for Eq2 to make a comeback. I have many friends who play Wow avidly. Eq2 battlegrounds has been the focus of our conversations since bg release. I am having a hard time understanding how soe can justify allowing higher specs for one server over another on the release of something this important to the games shot at surviving. As is, our server has very few raid guilds and new raid guilds are impossible to start. We need more population. Battlegrounds would be a solid answer to this but ................. well houston we have a problem.I can understand being owned to nagafens supreme playstyle alone. I would definitly expect it at first. This isnt the case though. I am not only playing against well versed pvp players, but I am also playing against much superior gear. You have basicaly said this. "We are going to make a really cool battleground thing that everyone can play. It's gonna be dope. And you pvpers will love the fact that your gear will work for it. Oh and you pvpers will love this fact also. There gear wont." Now we have full nagy and vox premade 24's in smuggs and mix matched blues getting owned on a regular. "Wait pvpers. We're not done. We are also gonna give you kill tokens to spend on your server for pvp gear that the blue servers cant get." I have no idea what the thought process was on this one soe but you were wrong and need to fix it soon. I personally want bg's to work. I am loosing the faith of my guild though and fast. I keep telling them dont worry. Soe will do something. They have to right? I wouldnt wait to fix this. BG is NOT PvP. They have to be totally seperated. BG gear for BG and PVP gear for PVP. Then we can see who owns who for real. May take some time for us blue noobs but we will get there. If you dont change this soon we will be seeing more populations dropping.Already due to the release of Battlegrounds server populations have dropped. People are upset there are no groups running. My guild personaly cant understand why I am so into Battlegrounds and wants me to get over this and just get back to pve. I am sure I am not the only one. We as the majority of your clients want this changed. Will you listen?</blockquote>presently the open world t9 gear is more or less the same as the bg gear, so you can earn the same gear that is earned on the open world servers. the only real difference is with the t8 gear which is theoretically supposed to be obsolete. But I feel your pain. However, the problem with the bgs lies not so much with the gear as with the broken mechanics. Eq2 pvp has always been heavily class specific in a rock paper scissor sort of way. Now with the introduction of the stat nge, and the changes to resists certain classes have become grp killers. Toughness was a bad idea, that doesnt seem to be properly implemented but even with toughness gear you can still see grps of folk being one shotted in the 90 lvl zone. Because of the way the bgs are designed, you can tell the moment you log in who is going to win. As long as the side with the more powerful classes doesnt [Removed for Content] itself, there is no strat that the otherside can use to overcome the difference. Right now the bgs seem to be doing ok as the shinny new thing in eq2, but the repetative game play is going to be a killer to their populatity.

Naggasaki

03-07-2010, 10:51 AM

<cite>Shorcon wrote:</cite><blockquote>You are again acting like bg's are for nagy and vox exclusively. It's not. You are the minority in bg's and soe needs to even the playing field. You called my BG gear trophy gear. Lol. You should not be finding a need for your BG gear in normal pvp play. This is my point. BG's are BG's. PvP is PvP. There is a difference. Add toughness to our t3 and t4. I am not sure what the total solution is but i want to get owned to nagy and vox skill, not gear.You respondents to this post are seriously misunderstanding my whole point. BG's can fix low population PVP and PVE. It has to be fair to the entire platform. Not just you minority servers. [Removed for Content]. Read your words. Not biast are ya? Last I heard Vox was almost dead. Dont you want more peeps? </blockquote>It took me reading, re-reading and then finally re-re-reading this post for me to actually figgure out what the problems are with your post.(flame me for being illiterate...idc) I have highlighted them and will address them in order of absurdity.1.) You play on a PvE server. I play on a PvP server. I have to get two sets of gear now as it is...my raid set and my PvP set (thanks for that one SoE). You have to get two sets, your Battlegrounds set and your Raid set (I'll thank them for you). Why would I, being on a PvP server have to put in the work to obtain yet ANOTHER set of gear just to enjoy this game as it is presented? By your argument, PvP players that wish to raid should have to aquire three sets of gear and carry them at all times because you never know when someones going to jump you in PvP, invite you to a BG's group, or someone will open a slot for a 'Recruitment Raid'. Where as, you on the PvE side, place your BG gear into the bank and pull it out when you decide you want to go PvP?2.) If we (naggy and vox) are the minorities in BG's (which we are if you take world wide populace into account) why does SoE need to 'even the playing field? By your account of 'who's got the upper hand' your PvE bretheren should be rick rolling us in every match and should be coming in with pre-mades each and every time to show us what PvP and co-ordination in a team is really all about. *instead of typically running around like a bunch of lemmings wondering which way to go and fretting over who killed you last*

Costa

03-07-2010, 11:10 AM

Now i could post this here or any other thread thats been started saying it's unfair that pvp players have better gear etc than the non pvp players and they should not be in the same BG's but who requested BG's to be implimented in game? Now i know from reading through the pvp forums that due to the amount of lag we would experience when you had an x4 vs x4 meet up on naggy or the TG zerg was taking place there was a big shout from several players for BG's.Now i've not experienced it 1st hand but i've heard that the experiences in the lvl 90 BG's are a lot different than the lvl 80's and that the pve players are holding their own pretty well. I think once they have been out a month and people are starting to finish off their gear there will be a difference in the bg's, although you could also find the pvp players being less frequant users due to them getting the armor and jewlery they wanted to survive the open world environment. If the Naggy and Vox players do use them less then all the fuss kicked up by the pve players will be a mute point.

rebyenliv

03-07-2010, 02:21 PM

The gear helps but it's not the reason nagafen is good at pvp. I've been rolled by some really good nagafen groups, and had some that suck. The gear doesn't make the person invincible. They need skill too, I've been in gears with high end raiders form pve who have rolled nagafen premades, or had some really good battles.

Neskonlith

03-07-2010, 02:29 PM

From Nagafen, I solo queue for first available zone as I have yet to go into any BeeGees with a pre-made group; I BeeGee for the fun of it. I am about 50-50 with solo queueing, but I am at 100% fun since I choose to enjoy the contests win or lose.One Klak match where our team was losing, there was a very young voice in the VC that was obviously discouraged, telling the rest of us to "just give it up, there's no hope". The rest of us chimed in to him to keep on truckin' as he was obviously overlooking the point of BeeGees: "you cannot possibly win 100% of the time unless your goal is to have fun!"Especially when compared to the gross unfairness of open-pvp on Nagafen, in BeeGees = everybody wins! To help improve your experience inside the BeeGees:Make sure you have a PVP spec for AAs, as this makes a huge difference for many classes. PVE AA = weakness in PVP.Remember that players do not act like "dumb, predictable AI mobs" - they might act like "dumb, drunken-monkey-knife-fighters".Always remember your strengths in a group as you are part of a Team.

Armironhead

03-07-2010, 03:35 PM

<cite>Neskonlith wrote:</cite><blockquote>From Nagafen, I solo queue for first available zone as I have yet to go into any BeeGees with a pre-made group; I BeeGee for the fun of it. I am about 50-50 with solo queueing, but I am at 100% fun since I choose to enjoy the contests win or lose.One Klak match where our team was losing, there was a very young voice in the VC that was obviously discouraged, telling the rest of us to "just give it up, there's no hope". The rest of us chimed in to him to keep on truckin' as he was obviously overlooking the point of BeeGees: "you cannot possibly win 100% of the time unless your goal is to have fun!"Especially when compared to the gross unfairness of open-pvp on Nagafen, in BeeGees = everybody wins! To help improve your experience inside the BeeGees:Make sure you have a PVP spec for AAs, as this makes a huge difference for many classes. PVE AA = weakness in PVP.Remember that players do not act like "dumb, predictable AI mobs" - they might act like "dumb, drunken-monkey-knife-fighters".Always remember your strengths in a group as you are part of a Team.</blockquote>In open world an inferior force can beat or at least harass a superior force by by playing smart. In the bgs there is simply nothing you can do to beat a superior force by the use of tactics. The games are decided almost entirely on class makeup. As time goes on and more and more people optimize their aas and gear the inherent imbalances become even more apparent. There is nothing fun about going into a bg (lvl 90 or otherwise) and being blasted before you can even get in range. And toughness gear simply doesnt help. But even if you had toughness gear, well so what? the otherside has the gear too which means that the class imbalances will still win the day. Thus it is entirely unture to suggest that the bgs are more fair or a better system then open world. Rather, the bgs are the height of "unfair," as well as being predictable and boring as hell too boot.

Gaige

03-07-2010, 03:37 PM

<cite>Neskonlith wrote:</cite><blockquote>Remember that players do not act like "dumb, predictable AI mobs" </blockquote>I always love seeing this comment when there is always so much content that players can't kill each expansion.Munzok was such a dumb, predictable AI mob in TSO, wasn't he?

Shorcon

03-07-2010, 03:38 PM

I love your pvp play to keep it the same just till you get your gear. You are calling this a temporary fun. Bg's are a major reason that wow holds over 5million accounts still. Not all the reason but a major part of the reason. You all have missed my points and some of you even went to witty bashing me. Lets see what happens. Here are the 2 outcomes.1. Soe seperates the 2. BG gear for BG. PvP gear for PvP. The server populations will rise.2. They dont. The server populations will fall.As for you hard workin pvpers workin hard for your gear in the past. Keep in mind. You are not in any way earning this gear. You are exploiting it. Like I said before. I would expect to loose to Nag/Vox players in general due to skill AT FIRST. I would like to loose to you all on an even playing field.

Gaige

03-07-2010, 03:43 PM

<cite>Shorcon wrote:</cite><blockquote>Bg's are a major reason that wow holds over 5million accounts still. Not all the reason but a major part of the reason. </blockquote>Proof?

03-07-2010, 03:55 PM

<cite>Shorcon wrote:</cite><blockquote>I love your pvp play to keep it the same just till you get your gear. You are calling this a temporary fun. Bg's are a major reason that wow holds over 5million accounts still. Not all the reason but a major part of the reason. You all have missed my points and some of you even went to witty bashing me. Lets see what happens. Here are the 2 outcomes.1. Soe seperates the 2. BG gear for BG. PvP gear for PvP. The server populations will rise.2. They dont. The server populations will fall.As for you hard workin pvpers workin hard for your gear in the past. Keep in mind. You are not in any way earning this gear. You are exploiting it. Like I said before. I would expect to loose to Nag/Vox players in general due to skill AT FIRST. I would like to loose to you all on an even playing field.</blockquote>I'm not sure where you got this hypothesis from but after reading your post 3 times before I could understand what you were saying, I humbly disagree.

Muraazi

03-07-2010, 04:51 PM

<cite>Shorcon wrote:</cite><blockquote>I love your pvp play to keep it the same just till you get your gear. You are calling this a temporary fun. Bg's are a major reason that wow holds over 5million accounts still. Not all the reason but a major part of the reason. You all have missed my points and some of you even went to witty bashing me. Lets see what happens. Here are the 2 outcomes.1. Soe seperates the 2. BG gear for BG. PvP gear for PvP. The server populations will rise.2. They dont. The server populations will fall.As for you hard workin pvpers workin hard for your gear in the past. Keep in mind. You are not in any way earning this gear. You are exploiting it. Like I said before. I would expect to loose to Nag/Vox players in general due to skill AT FIRST. I would like to loose to you all on an even playing field.</blockquote>That might be hard considering they are the basically the same item (same name, different color, some different stats). Only purchased from a different vendor with PvP tokens not BG tokens.Oh and..... DOOOOOOOOOOM

Neskonlith

03-07-2010, 05:15 PM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote>Munzok was such a dumb, predictable AI mob in TSO, wasn't he?</blockquote>What does an infamously bugged raid zone in TSO have to do with the simple fact that AI mobs are scripted and predictable when they aren't malfunctioning due to code corruption? Here's one discussion about that zone where the ease of AI encounters when not bugged is stated:<cite>Kunaak wrote:</cite><blockquote>forgive me for not know the specifics on this encounter. I just do my role to keep people buffed, and DPS the add when it comes.its never been a hard encounter - till this recent update.</blockquote><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?&topic_id=464407">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=464407</a><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" />I seem to recall a few other quotes that pertain to this scripted AI mob that bugged out and acted not as intended due to malfunction, so lemme do some research after I run a few BeeGees and get back to this topic.<img src="http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb310/Bitter_Coffee/screenies/BeeGeesabotage.jpg" /><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/49869fe8223507d7223db3451e5321aa.gif" border="0" />

Taldier

03-07-2010, 08:10 PM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Neskonlith wrote:</cite><blockquote>Remember that players do not act like "dumb, predictable AI mobs" </blockquote>I always love seeing this comment when there is always so much content that players can't kill each expansion.Munzok was such a dumb, predictable AI mob in TSO, wasn't he?</blockquote>I love this argument. The "raiding is hard" argument.Raiding requires memorization and coordination, not individual talent. Leading a raid guild, working with people, getting people to follow instructions, those are the real skills involved in raiding. My hat goes off to the leaders and officers of hardcore raid guilds that put in the energy to run those guilds smoothly. Reacting in a certain way when a mob displays a script, being able to find your detriment window, and remembering to bring potions with you are not "skills".The fact is that no matter how unbelievably complex a pve raid encounter is, it will not do the same outright insane completely unpredictable things you see enemy players on pvp servers do on a regular basis.

Gaige

03-07-2010, 08:28 PM

<cite>Taldier@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>I love this argument. The "raiding is hard" argument.Raiding requires memorization and coordination, not individual talent. Reacting in a certain way when a mob displays a script, being able to find your detriment window, and remembering to bring potions with you are not "skills".</blockquote>If that is true, then how come every raid guild doesn't kill every mob they pull after the first time? To listen to you guys, once you know the script its so boring and easy a five year old could do it.Why then, do so many raids constantly fail to kill mobs?

Gaige

03-07-2010, 08:30 PM

<cite>Neskonlith wrote:</cite><blockquote>What does an infamously bugged raid zone in TSO have to do with the simple fact that AI mobs are scripted and predictable when they aren't malfunctioning due to code corruption? </blockquote>Munzok was killable and killed by numerous guilds in TSO. Don't blame your failures on bugs that didn't prevent other guilds from beating the ezmode AI.

Tehom

03-07-2010, 10:49 PM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Neskonlith wrote:</cite><blockquote>Remember that players do not act like "dumb, predictable AI mobs" </blockquote>I always love seeing this comment when there is always so much content that players can't kill each expansion.Munzok was such a dumb, predictable AI mob in TSO, wasn't he?</blockquote>I generally like to tell people who are nervous about pvping for the first time to think of other players as like mobs, but with worse AI.

Taldier

03-07-2010, 11:06 PM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Taldier@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>I love this argument. The "raiding is hard" argument.Raiding requires memorization and coordination, not individual talent. Reacting in a certain way when a mob displays a script, being able to find your detriment window, and remembering to bring potions with you are not "skills".</blockquote>If that is true, then how come every raid guild doesn't kill every mob they pull after the first time? To listen to you guys, once you know the script its so boring and easy a five year old could do it.Why then, do so many raids constantly fail to kill mobs?</blockquote>Note that you edited my post to fit your own narrow stereotype. The large number of guilds that fail to clear that content do so because of poor organization or poor leadership, not because the people in the guilds that do are "uber".

Jasuo

03-08-2010, 01:37 AM

If you're a pve player getting rick rolled by some pvp players everytime you zone into BG's you honestly need to adapt your playstyle better, they are absolutely not as amazing as you're making them out to be. Just adjust gear and playstyle and BG's are easy for token farming...when Sony fixes the bugs so you aren't naked when you zone back to normal servers.

Armawk

03-08-2010, 02:31 AM

I have to say I do agree. This idea of nagafen players being just automatically best is rubbish. An organised group beats disorganisation every time regardless of source.. A good group from PvE will pound on a bunch of nagafen players who are playing a mediocre game.Sure there are some fantastic players from there, but I am third rate and have killed many many nagafen players..

Shorcon

03-08-2010, 05:30 PM

I love how pvp players in bg will freely admit that they have a major gear advantage but when posting on here were sony might actualy change that fact you all put your selves on pedistals as great pvpers. I also love the quik change in subject from fixing that to we all suck because we are from blue servers. You aren't impressing me with your "these aren't raid mobs" crap. I would be impressed if you all admited that your gear is a major advantage in bg's and that we haven't had a chance to see if you are actualy good or not. RoK jewl that fears me off your healers? Thats not an advantage? My healers don't fear you off ie you kill them. That my finaly skilled pvp friends is advantage. huge advantage at 20% chance. As my research continues I will post more ADVANTAGE pvp gear. The simple truth is BG's are BG's and your lame skills wont match up to us blues if they take that ADVANTAGE away. All gear equalized and earnable by all for bg's. Truthfully I dont care if you get your pvp gear from bg's or not. You must suck at pvp if you need to come into a zone with pvp gear and kill non pvpers with no pvp gear. I would own you [Removed for Content] with the same gear. How bout that ninny's.But I must get back to my point soe. BG's are alot of fun for everyone and can make a difference in server populations. Keeping this unfair advantage in play will and already has discouraged a massive amount of people from even trying. You should add in game census and start finding out what We the players want in situations like this. Of course this post will only get pvpers to respond as they dont want change to there I AM GOD suppremacy on BG's. I would like a FAIR shot to see about that.I know, I know you will still bash me in bg's if the gear sets are changed blah blah blah. PROVE IT.

Wytie

03-08-2010, 05:40 PM

Maybe its just me, but it does make sense that someone who has been pvp'n, for 2+ years just might have a pvp gear advantage over someone who just started pvp'n in BG a few weeks ago.Maybe I should put that on a level you might understand.Wouldnt a raider who has been raiding for years have a raid gear advantage over someone who started raiding a few weeks ago?Yes, why yes they would.................../thread over

bks6721

03-08-2010, 05:50 PM

I went into Battlegrounds with my T2 gear and junk jewelry knowing full well that I was going to be dog food. I did not expect to go into something like BG with hardly any PvP experience and expect to be any good. Therefore, I was not really disappointed or suprised when I got steamrolled. I leaned some things.. like maybe I should change some aa's. I started to change my fighting style and using spells I normally overlooked. I changed a few keys around to keep critical skills on a hair trigger. I'm still not very good but I'm getting better and having fun doing it. Someday I hope to actually be good it this and not die as much.

PeterJohn

03-08-2010, 05:53 PM

<cite>Paill@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Maybe its just me, but it does make sense that someone who has been pvp'n, for 2+ years just might have a pvp gear advantage over someone who just started pvp'n in BG a few weeks ago.Maybe I should put that on a level you might understand.Wouldnt a raider who has been raiding for years have a raid gear advantage over someone who started raiding a few weeks ago?</blockquote>I fully expect that with enough time and effort, I could gear up just as well as that raider who has been raiding for a few years.I do not expect ever to be able to earn the Banshee's Hoop. The analogy fails there.

skidmark

03-08-2010, 05:54 PM

I wanted to play in BGs, but all of my Nagafen toons are way too low. I did have an Illusionist on Najena that was 67 right after the release of the expansion. I got him to 80 over the weekened just for BGs. Needless to say, his gear sucked, he only had 85 AA, and no spell was higher than Adept. He was getting one shotted to death.Then I heard of the MC BG set. Plopped down 50 plat and got it. Now he no longer gets one shotted, he also doesn't hand people their a**, but it is a significant improvement.Either way the BGs are FUN!I also don't understand why it matters if the people from Nagafen/Vox are getting their rewards earlier than the people from PvE. The same way I don't understand some people's obsession with class balance, or certain classes being able to do stuff better than others. Envy, it is one of the 7.

Wytie

03-08-2010, 05:55 PM

<cite>PeterJohn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Paill@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Maybe its just me, but it does make sense that someone who has been pvp'n, for 2+ years just might have a pvp gear advantage over someone who just started pvp'n in BG a few weeks ago.Maybe I should put that on a level you might understand.Wouldnt a raider who has been raiding for years have a raid gear advantage over someone who started raiding a few weeks ago?</blockquote>I fully expect that with enough time and effort, I could gear up just as well as that raider who has been raiding for a few years.I do not expect ever to be able to earn the Banshee's Hoop. The analogy fails there.</blockquote>Except there is a TON of raid gear thats no longer avaliable to anyone who doesnt already have it.Caught ya, my analogy owns.

Shorcon

03-08-2010, 06:05 PM

Shorcon

03-08-2010, 06:13 PM

I would like to get back to my reason for starting this post please.BG's are BG's. PVP is PVP. If bg's were pvp then I wouldn't be able to do it.This as a new part to EQ2 should have balance. PVPers will still find there all mighty domination in the form of skill. Gear is overpowered as has been formaly admited by people on other forums. Get off your high horse PVPers and take a reality check. BG's are not just for you. If the changes arent made soon they will be though. Blue servers will be very few in the number of ques you see. People are starting to catch on. Tons still dont realize they are fighting a pvp healer when they get feared 20% off ear and ring proc that we blue servers cant CANT get. 20%. The list goes on and on and on........................Stop acting like bg's are here for you and only you. Its not. Stop acting like its pvp for idiots. It's not. PVP is PVP and BG is BG.I can't wait till they nerf you and I can show you my skills you gear dependant [Removed for Content]. Lol. jk. I will own you all though mruh huhuhuh.

Wytie

03-08-2010, 06:24 PM

<cite>Shorcon wrote:</cite><blockquote>I would like to get back to my reason for starting this post please.BG's are BG's. PVP is PVP. If bg's were pvp then I wouldn't be able to do it.This as a new part to EQ2 should have balance. PVPers will still find there all mighty domination in the form of skill. Gear is overpowered as has been formaly admited by people on other forums. Get off your high horse PVPers and take a reality check. BG's are not just for you. If the changes arent made soon they will be though. Blue servers will be very few in the number of ques you see. People are starting to catch on. Tons still dont realize they are fighting a pvp healer when they get feared 20% off ear and ring proc that we blue servers cant CANT get. 20%. The list goes on and on and on........................Stop acting like bg's are here for you and only you. Its not. Stop acting like its pvp for idiots. It's not. PVP is PVP and BG is BG.I can't wait till they nerf you and I can show you my skills you gear dependant [Removed for Content]. Lol. jk. I will own you all though mruh huhuhuh.</blockquote>Then quit asking for old pvp gear for new BG's then if its not the same.BTW its 10% not 20 ffs

bks6721

03-08-2010, 06:32 PM

<cite>Shorcon wrote:</cite><blockquote>I would like to get back to my reason for starting this post please.BG's are BG's. PVP is PVP. If bg's were pvp then I wouldn't be able to do it.This as a new part to EQ2 should have balance. PVPers will still find there all mighty domination in the form of skill. Gear is overpowered as has been formaly admited by people on other forums. Get off your high horse PVPers and take a reality check. BG's are not just for you. If the changes arent made soon they will be though. Blue servers will be very few in the number of ques you see. People are starting to catch on. Tons still dont realize they are fighting a pvp healer when they get feared 20% off ear and ring proc that we blue servers cant CANT get. 20%. The list goes on and on and on........................Stop acting like bg's are here for you and only you. Its not. Stop acting like its pvp for idiots. It's not. PVP is PVP and BG is BG.I can't wait till they nerf you and I can show you my skills you gear dependant [Removed for Content]. Lol. jk. I will own you all though mruh huhuhuh.</blockquote>I have discovered that dead healers don't proc anything. Not all fights have to be "fair"... I think its more fun to take out someone stronger than I. Of course that means I get steamrolled occasionally and that doesn't hurt my ego at all.

PeterJohn

03-08-2010, 06:35 PM

<cite>Paill@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>PeterJohn wrote:</cite><blockquote>I fully expect that with enough time and effort, I could gear up just as well as that raider who has been raiding for a few years.I do not expect ever to be able to earn the Banshee's Hoop. The analogy fails there.</blockquote>Except there is a TON of raid gear thats no longer avaliable to anyone who doesnt already have it.Caught ya, my analogy owns.</blockquote>Hmm okay yeah your analogy does own in that case <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Wow I actually have no response to this. You really do make a good point there, Paill.

Taldier

03-08-2010, 06:38 PM

<cite>Paill@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>PeterJohn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Paill@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Maybe its just me, but it does make sense that someone who has been pvp'n, for 2+ years just might have a pvp gear advantage over someone who just started pvp'n in BG a few weeks ago.Maybe I should put that on a level you might understand.Wouldnt a raider who has been raiding for years have a raid gear advantage over someone who started raiding a few weeks ago?</blockquote>I fully expect that with enough time and effort, I could gear up just as well as that raider who has been raiding for a few years.I do not expect ever to be able to earn the Banshee's Hoop. The analogy fails there.</blockquote>Except there is a TON of raid gear thats no longer avaliable to anyone who doesnt already have it.Caught ya, my analogy owns.</blockquote>Win analogy is win.

PeterJohn

03-08-2010, 07:08 PM

Yeah Taldier, I already said that hehe, my reply came before yours <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I can admit when someone makes a really good point. I'm just about reversed on my opinion of the PvP server advantage. Still thinking though.Btw, I assume the Banshee Hoop is not owned by very many of the PvPers out there? I've only encountered 1 healer with it so far in about 10 hours of Battlegrounds. Is the rate of Banshee ownership about equal to the rate of Avatar gear owners on PvE servers?

Laenai

03-08-2010, 07:11 PM

<cite>Jjay@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>I went into Battlegrounds with my T2 gear and junk jewelry knowing full well that I was going to be dog food. I did not expect to go into something like BG with hardly any PvP experience and expect to be any good. Therefore, I was not really disappointed or suprised when I got steamrolled. I leaned some things.. like maybe I should change some aa's. I started to change my fighting style and using spells I normally overlooked. I changed a few keys around to keep critical skills on a hair trigger. I'm still not very good but I'm getting better and having fun doing it. Someday I hope to actually be good it this and not die as much.</blockquote>/agreeI love BG. I am TERRIBLE at BG. Am I getting better? I'd like to think so. I've learned a lot from PvPers and PvEers in BG and I've come to understand that everything for me needs to be different in BG vs. my usual PvE game. My AA spec, my gear, what poisons I run, what CAs I open up with, who needs to die first...LOVING it. Its like a whole new side to my game that I couldn't deal with on an open PvP server because I got ganked too dang much before I even hit level 20 and got frustrated.However no matter how much I improve, I'll still die as much. Alas, that is the ranger's lot in life.

Taldier

03-08-2010, 07:29 PM

<cite>PeterJohn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yeah Taldier, I already said that hehe, my reply came before yours <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" />I can admit when someone makes a really good point. I'm just about reversed on my opinion of the PvP server advantage. Still thinking though.Btw, I assume the Banshee Hoop is not owned by very many of the PvPers out there? I've only encountered 1 healer with it so far in about 10 hours of Battlegrounds. Is the rate of Banshee ownership about equal to the rate of Avatar gear owners on PvE servers?</blockquote>Higher than that, (though I have trouble conceiving the amount of avatar loot on a server where you can actually pull constesteds when they spawn without being ganked). You will find a reasonably high number of pvp healers who have been playing for a couple years have the hoop.The biggest issue with the hoop is that it doesnt grant a fear immunity timer, just like a certain quested t7 cloak doesnt grant an immunity to stun. Both procs have yet to be properly nerfed.

Munty

03-08-2010, 07:56 PM

<cite>Paill@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Except there is a TON of raid gear thats no longer avaliable to anyone who doesnt already have it.Caught ya, my analogy owns.</blockquote>Well it wasn't really an analogy, but even so, it still fails, since you are referring to gear that is unavailable to anyone, versus the argument here is that gear is available to a group of people, based on which server they rolled on. Here is a real analogy for you: your argument is like saying that since nobody has access to flintlock rifles anymore, it's all cool. But the reality is, PvErs are playing with Lee-Enfields compared with the PvPer's M16s. Exaggeration here for effect, but you get the point. So your "analogy" fails because it isn't one at all.Question is, are items that give you an inherent advantage in BG PvP still available to PvP-only characters? If yes, then this gear should either be nerfed in BGs, or offered to everyone. You simply cannot have a system where one group of people have an unequivocal advantage over another simply because of the server they chose to play on, where there is a system that is independent of those server choices. Sure, if I roll a toon on Naggy, it's all fair game, since I have just as much access to everything as anyone else, but the fundamental point here is that if you want true, fair fights in the battleground, then you cannot have one set of gear available to one group, that isn't available to another. Whether it is easier to level up on PvE is irrelevant; once you reach level 80, most stuff (including raids, short of Avatars) is instanced anyhow, and one's advantage in the battleground should come through their own skill, not because they happen to have access to gear their opposition doesn't.

Taldier

03-08-2010, 08:19 PM

<cite>Itvara@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Exaggeration here for effect, but you get the point.</blockquote>This is the part where you totally miss the point.

Munty

03-08-2010, 09:33 PM

<cite>Taldier@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Itvara@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Exaggeration here for effect, but you get the point.</blockquote>This is the part where you totally miss the point.</blockquote>No, I'm not missing the point at all. The argument is that it's "harder" to level and get gear on PvP servers so they "deserve" to have an advantage in the battleground. Oh, the poor darlings!Well let's follow that line of logic shall we? Since PvPer's believe they have a sense of entitlement to better gear, and thus it is "harder" for PvErs to succeed against them, I propose that PvE servers be given access to exclusive PvE-only BG gear. After all, it's only fair that since it is "harder" for us to go up against PvP geared characters, we "deserve" an advantage.Right? I mean that isn't a stupid line of reasoning at all, is it?

Notsovilepriest

03-08-2010, 09:38 PM

<cite>Itvara@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Taldier@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Itvara@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Exaggeration here for effect, but you get the point.</blockquote>This is the part where you totally miss the point.</blockquote>No, I'm not missing the point at all. The argument is that it's "harder" to level and get gear on PvP servers so they "deserve" to have an advantage in the battleground. Oh, the poor darlings!Well let's follow that line of logic shall we? Since PvPer's believe they have a sense of entitlement to better gear, and thus it is "harder" for PvErs to succeed against them, I propose that PvE servers be given access to exclusive PvE-only BG gear. After all, it's only fair that since it is "harder" for us to go up against PvP geared characters, we "deserve" an advantage.Right? I mean that isn't a stupid line of reasoning at all, is it?</blockquote>You are very clearly missing the point and using terribad logic to top it off

Munty

03-08-2010, 09:48 PM

<cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>You are very clearly missing the point and using terribad logic to top it off</blockquote>PvP argument is that it's "harder" than PvE so they deserve an advantage. I counter by saying that therefore PvP for PvErs is harder since PvP servers have an advantage; thus we deserve better BG gear.The fail here is your failure to detect sarcasm. The fact that my logic is "bad" is merely to point out that the original argument is bad. But that might have gone over your head.

Notsovilepriest

03-08-2010, 09:56 PM

<cite>Itvara@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>You are very clearly missing the point and using terribad logic to top it off</blockquote>PvP argument is that it's "harder" than PvE so they deserve an advantage. I counter by saying that therefore PvP for PvErs is harder since PvP servers have an advantage; thus we deserve better BG gear.The fail here is your failure to detect sarcasm. The fact that my logic is "bad" is merely to point out that the original argument is bad. But that might have gone over your head.</blockquote>I could tell you're being sarcastic, but because of the fact that you are missing the point and bending poor logic to form and arguement that is off base while you are sarcastic or not.THE 2-3 PvP items that are still ok ARE NOT THE END ALL BE ALL OF ANY BG, PERIOD. NO IFS ANDS OR BUTS. If they start awarding blue servers all the gear PvP gets on top of totally uncontested mobs, free reign to quest, it is a slap in the face to anyone on PvP that actually dealt with all that and worked through it to achieve the same thing.

Munty

03-08-2010, 10:14 PM

Oops double post

Munty

03-08-2010, 10:15 PM

<cite>Itvara@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>I could tell you're being sarcastic, but because of the fact that you are missing the point and bending poor logic to form and arguement that is off base while you are sarcastic or not.THE 2-3 PvP items that are still ok ARE NOT THE END ALL BE ALL OF ANY BG, PERIOD. NO IFS ANDS OR BUTS. If they start awarding blue servers all the gear PvP gets on top of totally uncontested mobs, free reign to quest, it is a slap in the face to anyone on PvP that actually dealt with all that and worked through it to achieve the same thing.</blockquote>You haven't really adequately explained where my logic is flawed. You're still operating under the assumption that one deserve preferential treatment because one choses to roll on a PvP server. That's a premise that I am (and I am sure the majority of PvErs are) utterly unprepared to grant, and thus your argument holds no weight. I on the other hand, in using the exact same logic, am demonstrating that your position is one that could be taken to absurd extremes. There's an actual phrase for that, but I'll let you google basic logic concepts so you can get some pointers on what comprises a valid argument and what does not.It doesn't matter if a couple pieces are *not* the be all, end all of BGs, the point is they give an unfair advantage. A cross-server implementation should NOT give any subset of players an advantage, and I stand by that. I don't care how much "harder" it is to play on that server. Battlegrounds are not part of your server, they are independent of it and there should be nothing usable or available to one set of people than another (given class differences, of course).</blockquote>

Shorcon

03-08-2010, 10:16 PM

Shorcon

03-08-2010, 10:18 PM

<cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Itvara@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>You are very clearly missing the point and using terribad logic to top it off</blockquote>PvP argument is that it's "harder" than PvE so they deserve an advantage. I counter by saying that therefore PvP for PvErs is harder since PvP servers have an advantage; thus we deserve better BG gear.The fail here is your failure to detect sarcasm. The fact that my logic is "bad" is merely to point out that the original argument is bad. But that might have gone over your head.</blockquote>I could tell you're being sarcastic, but because of the fact that you are missing the point and bending poor logic to form and arguement that is off base while you are sarcastic or not.THE 2-3 PvP items that are still ok ARE NOT THE END ALL BE ALL OF ANY BG, PERIOD. NO IFS ANDS OR BUTS. If they start awarding blue servers all the gear PvP gets on top of totally uncontested mobs, free reign to quest, it is a slap in the face to anyone on PvP that actually dealt with all that and worked through it to achieve the same thing.</blockquote>You are still under the pretense that bgs are just for you. THERE NOT. Thus they should be fair in gear.

03-08-2010, 10:20 PM

I don't personally think it is all that inconceivable to allow PvE players access to PvP gear. I hear both sides of this argument and they both make perfect sense to me, but they would only gain a benefit from this in Battlegrounds regardless. It will most certainly not affect PvP on Nagafen and it seems reasonable to afford the same advantages to blue servers that red servers have. Basically this all boils down to adding more gear to make it balanced or nerfing existing gear, and I for one, always prefer the former.

Shorcon

03-08-2010, 10:20 PM

<cite>Itvara@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote>It doesn't matter if a couple pieces are *not* the be all, end all of BGs, the point is they give an unfair advantage. A cross-server implementation should NOT give any subset of players an advantage, and I stand by that. I don't care how much "harder" it is to play on that server. Battlegrounds are not part of your server, they are independent of it and there should be nothing usable or available to one set of people than another (given class differences, of course).</blockquote></blockquote>Well put.....

Crismorn

03-08-2010, 10:21 PM

<cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Itvara@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>You are very clearly missing the point and using terribad logic to top it off</blockquote>PvP argument is that it's "harder" than PvE so they deserve an advantage. I counter by saying that therefore PvP for PvErs is harder since PvP servers have an advantage; thus we deserve better BG gear.The fail here is your failure to detect sarcasm. The fact that my logic is "bad" is merely to point out that the original argument is bad. But that might have gone over your head.</blockquote>I could tell you're being sarcastic, but because of the fact that you are missing the point and bending poor logic to form and arguement that is off base while you are sarcastic or not.THE 2-3 PvP items that are still ok ARE NOT THE END ALL BE ALL OF ANY BG, PERIOD. NO IFS ANDS OR BUTS. If they start awarding blue servers all the gear PvP gets on top of totally uncontested mobs, free reign to quest, it is a slap in the face to anyone on PvP that actually dealt with all that and worked through it to achieve the same thing.</blockquote>You get updates for gear while you quest, thats how I see pvp in eq2 since there is NO LOSS in eq2 pvp you actually have an advantage.Please just stop already with eq2 pvp being hard because everyone half decent on your own server knows thats a lie

Notsovilepriest

03-08-2010, 10:23 PM

<cite>Itvara@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Itvara@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>I could tell you're being sarcastic, but because of the fact that you are missing the point and bending poor logic to form and arguement that is off base while you are sarcastic or not.THE 2-3 PvP items that are still ok ARE NOT THE END ALL BE ALL OF ANY BG, PERIOD. NO IFS ANDS OR BUTS. If they start awarding blue servers all the gear PvP gets on top of totally uncontested mobs, free reign to quest, it is a slap in the face to anyone on PvP that actually dealt with all that and worked through it to achieve the same thing.</blockquote>You haven't really adequately explained where my logic is flawed. You're still operating under the assumption that one deserve preferential treatment because one choses to roll on a PvP server. That's a premise that I am (and I am sure the majority of PvErs are) utterly unprepared to grant, and thus your argument holds no weight. I on the other hand, in using the exact same logic, am demonstrating that your position is one that could be taken to absurd extremes. There's an actual phrase for that, but I'll let you google basic logic concepts so you can get some pointers on what comprises a valid argument and what does not.It doesn't matter if a couple pieces are *not* the be all, end all of BGs, the point is they give an unfair advantage. A cross-server implementation should NOT give any subset of players an advantage, and I stand by that. I don't care how much "harder" it is to play on that server. Battlegrounds are not part of your server, they are independent of it and there should be nothing usable or available to one set of people than another (given class differences, of course).</blockquote></blockquote>I'm not going to waste my time to explain it because as you have proved over and over you will hear what you want and not actively listen, so there is no point in putting a response it's a waste of my time

03-08-2010, 10:25 PM

Also, posting a response saying you are not going to respond is a contradiction unto itself.

Notsovilepriest

03-08-2010, 10:27 PM

<cite>Ambu@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Also, posting a response saying you are not going to respond is a contradiction unto itself.</blockquote>No, he/she asked me to pull apart where she is flawed, I said I'm not going to do that

Shorcon

03-08-2010, 10:34 PM

<cite>Paill@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shorcon wrote:</cite><blockquote>I would like to get back to my reason for starting this post please.BG's are BG's. PVP is PVP. If bg's were pvp then I wouldn't be able to do it.This as a new part to EQ2 should have balance. PVPers will still find there all mighty domination in the form of skill. Gear is overpowered as has been formaly admited by people on other forums. Get off your high horse PVPers and take a reality check. BG's are not just for you. If the changes arent made soon they will be though. Blue servers will be very few in the number of ques you see. People are starting to catch on. Tons still dont realize they are fighting a pvp healer when they get feared 20% off ear and ring proc that we blue servers cant CANT get. 20%. The list goes on and on and on........................Stop acting like bg's are here for you and only you. Its not. Stop acting like its pvp for idiots. It's not. PVP is PVP and BG is BG.I can't wait till they nerf you and I can show you my skills you gear dependant [Removed for Content]. Lol. jk. I will own you all though mruh huhuhuh.</blockquote>Then quit asking for old pvp gear for new BG's then if its not the same.BTW its 10% not 20 ffs</blockquote>Um. its 20% as both items stack 10%. Another pvper trying hard to missdirect.

Notsovilepriest

03-08-2010, 10:37 PM

<cite>Shorcon wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Paill@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shorcon wrote:</cite><blockquote>I would like to get back to my reason for starting this post please.BG's are BG's. PVP is PVP. If bg's were pvp then I wouldn't be able to do it.This as a new part to EQ2 should have balance. PVPers will still find there all mighty domination in the form of skill. Gear is overpowered as has been formaly admited by people on other forums. Get off your high horse PVPers and take a reality check. BG's are not just for you. If the changes arent made soon they will be though. Blue servers will be very few in the number of ques you see. People are starting to catch on. Tons still dont realize they are fighting a pvp healer when they get feared 20% off ear and ring proc that we blue servers cant CANT get. 20%. The list goes on and on and on........................Stop acting like bg's are here for you and only you. Its not. Stop acting like its pvp for idiots. It's not. PVP is PVP and BG is BG.I can't wait till they nerf you and I can show you my skills you gear dependant [Removed for Content]. Lol. jk. I will own you all though mruh huhuhuh.</blockquote>Then quit asking for old pvp gear for new BG's then if its not the same.BTW its 10% not 20 ffs</blockquote>Um. its 20% as both items stack 10%. Another pvper trying hard to missdirect.</blockquote>Both Items stack? There is more than 1 banshee hoop? Wow news to me! It's 10%, Non Modifiable by anything. GG on failing at facts for an arguement.

Shorcon

03-08-2010, 10:45 PM

<cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shorcon wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Paill@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shorcon wrote:</cite><blockquote>I would like to get back to my reason for starting this post please.BG's are BG's. PVP is PVP. If bg's were pvp then I wouldn't be able to do it.This as a new part to EQ2 should have balance. PVPers will still find there all mighty domination in the form of skill. Gear is overpowered as has been formaly admited by people on other forums. Get off your high horse PVPers and take a reality check. BG's are not just for you. If the changes arent made soon they will be though. Blue servers will be very few in the number of ques you see. People are starting to catch on. Tons still dont realize they are fighting a pvp healer when they get feared 20% off ear and ring proc that we blue servers cant CANT get. 20%. The list goes on and on and on........................Stop acting like bg's are here for you and only you. Its not. Stop acting like its pvp for idiots. It's not. PVP is PVP and BG is BG.I can't wait till they nerf you and I can show you my skills you gear dependant [Removed for Content]. Lol. jk. I will own you all though mruh huhuhuh.</blockquote>Then quit asking for old pvp gear for new BG's then if its not the same.BTW its 10% not 20 ffs</blockquote>Um. its 20% as both items stack 10%. Another pvper trying hard to missdirect.</blockquote>Both Items stack? There is more than 1 banshee hoop? Wow news to me! It's 10%, Non Modifiable by anything. GG on failing at facts for an arguement.</blockquote>There is a ring and a earing that have 10% to fear proc.

Notsovilepriest

03-08-2010, 10:48 PM

<cite>Shorcon wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shorcon wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Paill@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shorcon wrote:</cite><blockquote>I would like to get back to my reason for starting this post please.BG's are BG's. PVP is PVP. If bg's were pvp then I wouldn't be able to do it.This as a new part to EQ2 should have balance. PVPers will still find there all mighty domination in the form of skill. Gear is overpowered as has been formaly admited by people on other forums. Get off your high horse PVPers and take a reality check. BG's are not just for you. If the changes arent made soon they will be though. Blue servers will be very few in the number of ques you see. People are starting to catch on. Tons still dont realize they are fighting a pvp healer when they get feared 20% off ear and ring proc that we blue servers cant CANT get. 20%. The list goes on and on and on........................Stop acting like bg's are here for you and only you. Its not. Stop acting like its pvp for idiots. It's not. PVP is PVP and BG is BG.I can't wait till they nerf you and I can show you my skills you gear dependant [Removed for Content]. Lol. jk. I will own you all though mruh huhuhuh.</blockquote>Then quit asking for old pvp gear for new BG's then if its not the same.BTW its 10% not 20 ffs</blockquote>Um. its 20% as both items stack 10%. Another pvper trying hard to missdirect.</blockquote>Both Items stack? There is more than 1 banshee hoop? Wow news to me! It's 10%, Non Modifiable by anything. GG on failing at facts for an arguement.</blockquote>There is a ring and a earing that have 10% to fear proc.</blockquote>They are the same item, and lore so...again bad with facts, but nice try.

Shorcon

03-08-2010, 11:02 PM

<cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shorcon wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shorcon wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Paill@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shorcon wrote:</cite><blockquote>I would like to get back to my reason for starting this post please.BG's are BG's. PVP is PVP. If bg's were pvp then I wouldn't be able to do it.This as a new part to EQ2 should have balance. PVPers will still find there all mighty domination in the form of skill. Gear is overpowered as has been formaly admited by people on other forums. Get off your high horse PVPers and take a reality check. BG's are not just for you. If the changes arent made soon they will be though. Blue servers will be very few in the number of ques you see. People are starting to catch on. Tons still dont realize they are fighting a pvp healer when they get feared 20% off ear and ring proc that we blue servers cant CANT get. 20%. The list goes on and on and on........................Stop acting like bg's are here for you and only you. Its not. Stop acting like its pvp for idiots. It's not. PVP is PVP and BG is BG.I can't wait till they nerf you and I can show you my skills you gear dependant [Removed for Content]. Lol. jk. I will own you all though mruh huhuhuh.</blockquote>Then quit asking for old pvp gear for new BG's then if its not the same.BTW its 10% not 20 ffs</blockquote>Um. its 20% as both items stack 10%. Another pvper trying hard to missdirect.</blockquote>Both Items stack? There is more than 1 banshee hoop? Wow news to me! It's 10%, Non Modifiable by anything. GG on failing at facts for an arguement.</blockquote>There is a ring and a earing that have 10% to fear proc.</blockquote>They are the same item, and lore so...again bad with facts, but nice try.</blockquote>Ok, ok. I'm sorry that I have miss informed the gp on this. It's 10% chance to fear. So as I run around in klak trying to kill the oposition with no tank I assume the 2 healers are my first priority as our dps is low and they can out heal it. As a blue server team is the opposition this is as easy as targeting and zerging the healer. As a red server team this will not happen because the healers can out heal and will out heal the dps due to this 10% proc. Oh and the fact that they stand at over 250 toughness and about 500hp or more above blue servers wearing fabled proc gear of other sorts and we are all in mc no proc gear. You are all trying to convince us that you deserve a pvp advantage in bg because you are pvpers. What you fail to understand is bg's are not for pvp servers. BG's are for all servers and need a balance of gear to be used there that everyone can get. You can get anything I can to use in BG. I cant get everything you can to use in BG. To top that off the stuff I cant get is advantage heavy. You act like this one item isnt the END ALL BE ALL as its been put to me. When you get a 24 mans smugs with 20 or more nag/vox these things you are calling small become X6 epic. We can only have 4 grps. You in this case forget your pvp skill and take advantage of the overpowerdness. You zerg all and we just take it. We can do nothing else. It's not skill possible. It's gear and gear only that make nag/vox premades so dominate in bgs. Cant wait till they take your advantage and blue servers own you. We are gonna show you all that we can pvp but just choose to do it in moderation.

03-08-2010, 11:20 PM

@Shorcon I think you are jumping the gun. A few pieces of gear does not a good PvP group make. I think you'll have a rude awakening when some of these truly skilled PvP players still proceed to own you.

Taldier

03-08-2010, 11:44 PM

<cite>Shorcon wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ok, ok. I'm sorry that I have miss informed the gp on this. It's 10% chance to fear.So as I run around in klak trying to kill the oposition with no tank I assume the 2 healers are my first priority as our dps is low and they can out heal it. As a blue server team is the opposition this is as easy as targeting and zerging the healer. As a red server team this will not happen because the healers can out heal and will out heal the dps due to this 10% proc.Or you seperate one of the healers from the other. Or you use a freedom potion. Or you give up because you have no tank, fewer healers, and less dps, and the occasional hoop proc doesnt make any difference one way or the other in that circumstance.Oh and the fact that they stand at over 250 toughness and about 500hp or more above blue servers wearing fabled proc gear of other sorts and we are all in mc no proc gear.Yes pvp players have an advantage at lvl 80. We have been pvping for years, we already have earned pvp gear. When you get to lvl 90 pve players get the exact same pvp gear as pvp players. And I dont know what this is about proc gear, in almost every case except the banshee hoop there is a better pve version of every piece of pvp proc gear.You are all trying to convince us that you deserve a pvp advantage in bg because you are pvpers. What you fail to understand is bg's are not for pvp servers.No one has said this.BG's are for all servers and need a balance of gear to be used there that everyone can get. You can get anything I can to use in BG. I cant get everything you can to use in BG. To top that off the stuff I cant get is advantage heavy. You act like this one item isnt the END ALL BE ALL as its been put to me.Yes, you cant get a banshee hoop unless you pvp on a pvp server. And no, if you were actually one of the good players from your server I couldnt get all the things you can bring into a bg. There are quite a few items I'd really like to have that I cant get anymore either. Just because you want something doesnt mean it should be handed to you.When you get a 24 mans smugs with 20 or more nag/vox these things you are calling small become X6 epic. We can only have 4 grps. You in this case forget your pvp skill and take advantage of the overpowerdness. You zerg all and we just take it. We can do nothing else. It's not skill possible. It's gear and gear only that make nag/vox premades so dominate in bgs.Yes pvp servers have an advantage in 80-89 bg's, yes you get to wear free easymode pvp gear once you get to 90, next topic please, have a nice day. Cant wait till they take your advantage and blue servers own you. We are gonna show you all that we can pvp but just choose to do it in moderation.While I have no doubt that there are many pve players capable of doing very well in pvp, from this post I highly doubt that you are one of them.Feel the raaggeee...feeeel theeee raaageeeeee.</blockquote>Ouch, block of text.

Shorcon

03-09-2010, 04:50 AM

<cite>Taldier@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shorcon wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ok, ok. I'm sorry that I have miss informed the gp on this. It's 10% chance to fear.So as I run around in klak trying to kill the oposition with no tank I assume the 2 healers are my first priority as our dps is low and they can out heal it. As a blue server team is the opposition this is as easy as targeting and zerging the healer. As a red server team this will not happen because the healers can out heal and will out heal the dps due to this 10% proc.Or you seperate one of the healers from the other. Or you use a freedom potion. Or you give up because you have no tank, fewer healers, and less dps, and the occasional hoop proc doesnt make any difference one way or the other in that circumstance.Oh and the fact that they stand at over 250 toughness and about 500hp or more above blue servers wearing fabled proc gear of other sorts and we are all in mc no proc gear.Yes pvp players have an advantage at lvl 80. We have been pvping for years, we already have earned pvp gear. When you get to lvl 90 pve players get the exact same pvp gear as pvp players. And I dont know what this is about proc gear, in almost every case except the banshee hoop there is a better pve version of every piece of pvp proc gear.You are all trying to convince us that you deserve a pvp advantage in bg because you are pvpers. What you fail to understand is bg's are not for pvp servers.No one has said this.BG's are for all servers and need a balance of gear to be used there that everyone can get. You can get anything I can to use in BG. I cant get everything you can to use in BG. To top that off the stuff I cant get is advantage heavy. You act like this one item isnt the END ALL BE ALL as its been put to me.Yes, you cant get a banshee hoop unless you pvp on a pvp server. And no, if you were actually one of the good players from your server I couldnt get all the things you can bring into a bg. There are quite a few items I'd really like to have that I cant get anymore either. Just because you want something doesnt mean it should be handed to you.When you get a 24 mans smugs with 20 or more nag/vox these things you are calling small become X6 epic. We can only have 4 grps. You in this case forget your pvp skill and take advantage of the overpowerdness. You zerg all and we just take it. We can do nothing else. It's not skill possible. It's gear and gear only that make nag/vox premades so dominate in bgs.Yes pvp servers have an advantage in 80-89 bg's, yes you get to wear free easymode pvp gear once you get to 90, next topic please, have a nice day. Cant wait till they take your advantage and blue servers own you. We are gonna show you all that we can pvp but just choose to do it in moderation.While I have no doubt that there are many pve players capable of doing very well in pvp, from this post I highly doubt that you are one of them.Feel the raaggeee...feeeel theeee raaageeeeee.</blockquote>Ouch, block of text.</blockquote>Lol. I am not even a little mad at you. No rage for you bud. Was this post supposed to show your intelligence? Bet you went back to nag/vox and put up the ole I told him off I did speach.I say "You are all trying to convince us that you deserve a pvp advantage in bg because you are pvpers. What you fail to understand is bg's are not for pvp servers."You say "No one has said this." You need to read some more forums here on battlegrounds. It's being said in abundance.You like the rest think BG's were put into the game for pvpers. Wrong.You like the rest think that because you play 100% pvp you deserve to bring advantage gear to the new content that is world wide. Wrong.I have said it before and I will say it again. I expect to loose to nag/vox premades for a while. I understand that you have been playing pvp and have some added experience in Battlegrounds.Bangle of righteous angerShifting BandVenirils GuardAdmirals ChainElusive LoopXebnok's band of MightBlessed Temporal ChainAnd many more...............These items will still be used by lvl 90 players in BG and will add an advantage. An unobtainable advantage by blue servers. FACT Jack. Or is it Sue?

Darkonx

03-09-2010, 05:03 AM

Xebnok's Band of Might is attainable as a blue, but it's still a bad item.

Taldier

03-09-2010, 05:30 AM

<cite>Shorcon wrote:</cite><blockquote>Lol. I am not even a little mad at you. No rage for you bud. Was this post supposed to show your intelligence? Bet you went back to nag/vox and put up the ole I told him off I did speach.I say "You are all trying to convince us that you deserve a pvp advantage in bg because you are pvpers. What you fail to understand is bg's are not for pvp servers."You say "No one has said this." You need to read some more forums here on battlegrounds. It's being said in abundance.You like the rest think BG's were put into the game for pvpers. Wrong.Not really, why would I want to log out of my pvp server to pvp in the same repetitive zone over and over if they werent bribing us with our own pvp gear.You like the rest think that because you play 100% pvp you deserve to bring advantage gear to the new content that is world wide. Wrong.Pretty much not what I said.I have said it before and I will say it again. I expect to loose to nag/vox premades for a while. I understand that you have been playing pvp and have some added experience in Battlegrounds.Bangle of righteous angerShifting BandVenirils GuardAdmirals ChainElusive LoopXebnok's band of MightBlessed Temporal ChainAnd many more...............These items will still be used by lvl 90 players in BG and will add an advantage. An unobtainable advantage by blue servers. FACT Jack. Or is it Sue?If you think those items are "an unobtainable advantage" I assume you dont have any raid gear? Half of that stuff is practically nerfed copy/paste of pve raid loot. One of the names you listed is even the pve version of the item.The only important items truly unique to pvp servers are the two deagro procs (on different classes) which arent particularly powerful and the banshee hoop which about a dozen pvpers have already agreed should be nerfed today on this forum alone.Please go whine about your casual gear in the other forum sections so I can watch the raiders laugh at you too.</blockquote>

Notsovilepriest

03-09-2010, 05:37 AM

<cite>Shorcon wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Taldier@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shorcon wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ok, ok. I'm sorry that I have miss informed the gp on this. It's 10% chance to fear.So as I run around in klak trying to kill the oposition with no tank I assume the 2 healers are my first priority as our dps is low and they can out heal it. As a blue server team is the opposition this is as easy as targeting and zerging the healer. As a red server team this will not happen because the healers can out heal and will out heal the dps due to this 10% proc.Or you seperate one of the healers from the other. Or you use a freedom potion. Or you give up because you have no tank, fewer healers, and less dps, and the occasional hoop proc doesnt make any difference one way or the other in that circumstance.Oh and the fact that they stand at over 250 toughness and about 500hp or more above blue servers wearing fabled proc gear of other sorts and we are all in mc no proc gear.Yes pvp players have an advantage at lvl 80. We have been pvping for years, we already have earned pvp gear. When you get to lvl 90 pve players get the exact same pvp gear as pvp players. And I dont know what this is about proc gear, in almost every case except the banshee hoop there is a better pve version of every piece of pvp proc gear.You are all trying to convince us that you deserve a pvp advantage in bg because you are pvpers. What you fail to understand is bg's are not for pvp servers.No one has said this.BG's are for all servers and need a balance of gear to be used there that everyone can get. You can get anything I can to use in BG. I cant get everything you can to use in BG. To top that off the stuff I cant get is advantage heavy. You act like this one item isnt the END ALL BE ALL as its been put to me.Yes, you cant get a banshee hoop unless you pvp on a pvp server. And no, if you were actually one of the good players from your server I couldnt get all the things you can bring into a bg. There are quite a few items I'd really like to have that I cant get anymore either. Just because you want something doesnt mean it should be handed to you.When you get a 24 mans smugs with 20 or more nag/vox these things you are calling small become X6 epic. We can only have 4 grps. You in this case forget your pvp skill and take advantage of the overpowerdness. You zerg all and we just take it. We can do nothing else. It's not skill possible. It's gear and gear only that make nag/vox premades so dominate in bgs.Yes pvp servers have an advantage in 80-89 bg's, yes you get to wear free easymode pvp gear once you get to 90, next topic please, have a nice day. Cant wait till they take your advantage and blue servers own you. We are gonna show you all that we can pvp but just choose to do it in moderation.While I have no doubt that there are many pve players capable of doing very well in pvp, from this post I highly doubt that you are one of them.Feel the raaggeee...feeeel theeee raaageeeeee.</blockquote>Ouch, block of text.</blockquote>Lol. I am not even a little mad at you. No rage for you bud. Was this post supposed to show your intelligence? Bet you went back to nag/vox and put up the ole I told him off I did speach.I say "You are all trying to convince us that you deserve a pvp advantage in bg because you are pvpers. What you fail to understand is bg's are not for pvp servers."You say "No one has said this." You need to read some more forums here on battlegrounds. It's being said in abundance.You like the rest think BG's were put into the game for pvpers. Wrong.You like the rest think that because you play 100% pvp you deserve to bring advantage gear to the new content that is world wide. Wrong.I have said it before and I will say it again. I expect to loose to nag/vox premades for a while. I understand that you have been playing pvp and have some added experience in Battlegrounds.Bangle of righteous anger-Either Tyrannus wrist or Zarrakon, Dunno which you are talking about.Shifting Band-Hardly worth talking about, Just retarget.Venirils Guard-Ethernaught Shield(Tythus)Admirals Chain-Pretty good just because it has potency on a belt slot, still not game breaking.Elusive Loop-PvP proc otherwise stinks.Xebnok's band of Might-PvE ItemBlessed Temporal Chain-CraptasticAnd many more...............These items will still be used by lvl 90 players in BG and will add an advantage. An unobtainable advantage by blue servers. FACT Jack. Or is it Sue?</blockquote>I see why you're so worried about all these items really, They aren't attainable on PvE at all or even worth attaining. Just Nerf Banshee hoop to 3-5% and make sure it gives immunity, but don't give it to blue, because it is a PvP item

Xisi

03-09-2010, 05:51 AM

Why not group those PvP servers in its own BG and leave us blue servers alone in our own Bgs? Now you can own each other with your amazing skills and amazing gears. Fair?

Xisi

03-09-2010, 05:53 AM

I bet with 99% that if they don't separate BGs, the developers will put those unique PvP gears in blue servers. It's simply illogical not to. It's probably an oversight. "just don't give it to blues, because it's PvP items?" lol I heard someone said Bg is also about PvP, that's why BG gear has something like "only works in pvp combat." Are you nag players so scared of pve players with those items? That makes me laugh so hard. What harm does it do since it really is only useful for PvP? It will own people in BGs? Then you admit that it's unfair advantage to nag players. So much failures. Well enjoy BGs when players from pve servers are no longer interested in BGs. People still don't realize it's for the best interest of the game to attract as many players as possible in all aspects of game. Self interest doesn't serve well for developers to refine the game.

Notsovilepriest

03-09-2010, 05:58 AM

<cite>Xisi@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>Why not group those PvP servers in its own BG and leave us blue servers alone in our own Bgs? Now you can own each other with your amazing skills and amazing gears. Fair? </blockquote>There is a name for this...It's Open world PvP. Why do you guys wish to shun those on red servers and exile us all on our own? You guys have all the tools to get toughness we do, which is the major PvP stat, but yet, look for small things to justify a seperation...We like to socialize too, We are already excluded from worldwide channels.

Notsovilepriest

03-09-2010, 06:02 AM

<cite>Xisi@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>I bet with 99% that if they don't separate BGs, the developers will put those unique PvP gears in blue servers. It's simply illogical not to. It's probably an oversight. "just don't give it to blues, because it's PvP items?" lol I heard someone said Bg is also about PvP, that's why BG gear has something like "only works in pvp combat." Are you nag players so scared of pve players with those items? That makes me laugh so hard. What harm does it do since it really is only useful for PvP? It will own people in BGs? Then you admit that it's unfair advantage to nag players. So much failures. Well enjoy BGs when playerr from pve servers are no longer interested in BGs. People still don't realize it's for the best interest of the game to attrack as many players as possible in all aspects of game.</blockquote>No, It's because we busted our butts to level, quest, level aa, attain items we want while dealing with open world PvP while doing all of those and yet you blue servers want to come in and still have all the safety we lose in all those things to reap the exact same rewards. A banshee hoop isn't going to make a bad healer good, but the principle of handing out the rewards we got for open world PvP to blue servers on top of what they did with BG gear is what I, and most others are against.

Xisi

03-09-2010, 06:02 AM

<cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xisi@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>Why not group those PvP servers in its own BG and leave us blue servers alone in our own Bgs? Now you can own each other with your amazing skills and amazing gears. Fair? </blockquote>There is a name for this...It's Open world PvP. Why do you guys wish to shun those on red servers and exile us all on our own? You guys have all the tools to get toughness we do, which is the major PvP stat, but yet, look for small things to justify a seperation...We like to socialize too, We are already excluded from worldwide channels.</blockquote>Because you want to keep those unqiue items to yourselves then use thoes unique items in a shared world. Get it? Either you can have your unique items and live in your separate world, no one will care. Or you have to share all items in the shared world.

Xisi

03-09-2010, 06:09 AM

<cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xisi@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>I bet with 99% that if they don't separate BGs, the developers will put those unique PvP gears in blue servers. It's simply illogical not to. It's probably an oversight. "just don't give it to blues, because it's PvP items?" lol I heard someone said Bg is also about PvP, that's why BG gear has something like "only works in pvp combat." Are you nag players so scared of pve players with those items? That makes me laugh so hard. What harm does it do since it really is only useful for PvP? It will own people in BGs? Then you admit that it's unfair advantage to nag players. So much failures. Well enjoy BGs when playerr from pve servers are no longer interested in BGs. People still don't realize it's for the best interest of the game to attrack as many players as possible in all aspects of game.</blockquote>No, It's because we busted our butts to level, quest, level aa, attain items we want while dealing with open world PvP while doing all of those and yet you blue servers want to come in and still have all the safety we lose in all those things to reap the exact same rewards. A banshee hoop isn't going to make a bad healer good, but the principle of handing out the rewards we got for open world PvP to blue servers on top of what they did with BG gear is what I, and most others are against.</blockquote>You busted your butt? Well grats, you had those items for a while and had fun in your server to own or be owned. But you know what, every game resets or wipes old gear when there is new expansion. You cannot just keep old items forever unique or powerful. Otherwise, new players won't be able to catch up.A game is constantly evoling, you cannot expect your past efforts should reward you indefinitely. Remember, it's a GAME.This also applies to this expanion esp with new feature such as BGs. It has to have a fresh start for all players. You can have the advantage for a while, just like old raiders have the advantage in new contents, but you cannot make the advantage permanent or too steep. That's why T9 legendary items replace replace some of T8 fable items from the hardest raids.

Notsovilepriest

03-09-2010, 06:10 AM

I just had the best idea ever, I think this will please the bluebies.PvP Socialism:~Give Everyone The Exact Same Class, Gear, AA, Spell Level and let them go at it, There is no other gear to earn, everyone casts the same things so nobody has x ability that y doesn't have, nobody has gear piece A that player B can't have or doesn't want to work to attain.Good Idea AM I RITE?!

Xisi

03-09-2010, 06:14 AM

<cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>I just had the best idea ever, I think this will please the bluebies.PvP Socialism:~Give Everyone The Exact Same Class, Gear, AA, Spell Level and let them go at it, There is no other gear to earn, everyone casts the same things so nobody has x ability that y doesn't have, nobody has gear piece A that player B can't have or doesn't want to work to attain.Good Idea AM I RITE?!</blockquote>Out of any logical reasonings? lol. so much failure. Good night.

Notsovilepriest

03-09-2010, 06:14 AM

<cite>Xisi@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xisi@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>I bet with 99% that if they don't separate BGs, the developers will put those unique PvP gears in blue servers. It's simply illogical not to. It's probably an oversight. "just don't give it to blues, because it's PvP items?" lol I heard someone said Bg is also about PvP, that's why BG gear has something like "only works in pvp combat." Are you nag players so scared of pve players with those items? That makes me laugh so hard. What harm does it do since it really is only useful for PvP? It will own people in BGs? Then you admit that it's unfair advantage to nag players. So much failures. Well enjoy BGs when playerr from pve servers are no longer interested in BGs. People still don't realize it's for the best interest of the game to attrack as many players as possible in all aspects of game.</blockquote>No, It's because we busted our butts to level, quest, level aa, attain items we want while dealing with open world PvP while doing all of those and yet you blue servers want to come in and still have all the safety we lose in all those things to reap the exact same rewards. A banshee hoop isn't going to make a bad healer good, but the principle of handing out the rewards we got for open world PvP to blue servers on top of what they did with BG gear is what I, and most others are against.</blockquote>You busted your butt? Well grats, you had those items for a while and had fun in your server to own or be owned. But you know what, every game resets or wipes old gear when there is new expansion. You cannot just keep old items forever unique or powerful. Otherwise, new players won't be able to catch up.A game is constantly evoling, you cannot expect your past efforts should reward you indefinitely. Remember, it's a GAME.This also applies to this expanion esp with new feature such as BGs. It has to have a fresh start for all players. You can have the advantage for a while, just like old raiders have the advantage in new contents, but you cannot make the advantage permanent or too steep. That's why T9 legendary items replace replace some of T8 fable items from the hardest raids.</blockquote>Yes, Because people don't use Trixy Cane, Haddens Earring, Avatar Stoneskin Boots, and other items are still worn or used even being expansions old. You all can attain the gear, You don't like how it would have to be done, If you don't, then don't complain, no if's ands or buts. If you want access to all the PvP items, come to a PvP server. There is always going to be someone at a disadvantage gear wise in every situation, you can't use that as a crutch every time.

Taldier

03-09-2010, 06:16 AM

<cite>Xisi@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xisi@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>Why not group those PvP servers in its own BG and leave us blue servers alone in our own Bgs? Now you can own each other with your amazing skills and amazing gears. Fair? </blockquote>There is a name for this...It's Open world PvP. Why do you guys wish to shun those on red servers and exile us all on our own? You guys have all the tools to get toughness we do, which is the major PvP stat, but yet, look for small things to justify a seperation...We like to socialize too, We are already excluded from worldwide channels.</blockquote>Because you want to keep those unqiue items to yourselves then use thoes unique items in a shared world. Get it? Either you can have your unique items and live in your separate world, no one will care. Or you have to share all items in the shared world.</blockquote>I want free items for free because I want them! Where are my $^%& t7 avatar boots!There is a reason soe doesnt just spawn the beta buffer on live servers and hand out raid gear. Because people did something and spent their time to get that. Giving those items away completely trivilizes the entire expereince of being on a pvp server because your time is somehow worth more than ours.Demanding pvp items without having to actually engage in any pvp is insulting to anyone who spends their time on a pvp server. 90% of the stuff isnt even as good as equivalent pve raid gear, but no, you still cant have it, for the same reason I cant buy that raid gear with the bg tokens.

Jinoy

03-09-2010, 06:32 AM

This cry for pvp items will probably go on forever. If rewarded, the cries will focus on something else. Who doesn't like free items? Riskless posts on the forums on low times versus pvp-ing through every level against twinks of the opposing faction. From the posters point of view this indeed is a huge reward vs. effort.I even read the statement "make the items available against a cost on par with their power". For one not used to survival on a pvp-server this is a fair and honest proposal and I applaud the effort made.Unfortunately, there is no comparable effort/cost one can make on a blue server compared to the red servers to obtain these items. Not only do you have to gather a certain amount of tokens (pvp writs) you will also have to obtain the level and matching AA's to get to that point.From these posts I gather the desire to obtain these in items in a fair way and I welcome the developers to find a similar time/frustration cost of levelling your newbie toon past the caves/antonica/darklight wood/enchanted lands and all those lowbie twink hubs. I encourage the developers also to find a cost similar to gold and items lost to the opposing faction. Perhaps the PVE servers would like to experience the feeling of losing your hard earned gold as well. The fact is, that you do not have access to the pvp gear. True, I understand your pain; some of these items are very sweet. Also, you never had to go through the pain to acquire those items. Until you have made a character on a red server and given it a good try to obtain those much coveted items, these cries are just whines for cheap toys.

Naggasaki

03-09-2010, 06:37 AM

<cite>Shorcon wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Taldier@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shorcon wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ok, ok. I'm sorry that I have miss informed the gp on this. It's 10% chance to fear.So as I run around in klak trying to kill the oposition with no tank I assume the 2 healers are my first priority as our dps is low and they can out heal it. As a blue server team is the opposition this is as easy as targeting and zerging the healer. As a red server team this will not happen because the healers can out heal and will out heal the dps due to this 10% proc.Or you seperate one of the healers from the other. Or you use a freedom potion. Or you give up because you have no tank, fewer healers, and less dps, and the occasional hoop proc doesnt make any difference one way or the other in that circumstance.Oh and the fact that they stand at over 250 toughness and about 500hp or more above blue servers wearing fabled proc gear of other sorts and we are all in mc no proc gear.Yes pvp players have an advantage at lvl 80. We have been pvping for years, we already have earned pvp gear. When you get to lvl 90 pve players get the exact same pvp gear as pvp players. And I dont know what this is about proc gear, in almost every case except the banshee hoop there is a better pve version of every piece of pvp proc gear.You are all trying to convince us that you deserve a pvp advantage in bg because you are pvpers. What you fail to understand is bg's are not for pvp servers.No one has said this.BG's are for all servers and need a balance of gear to be used there that everyone can get. You can get anything I can to use in BG. I cant get everything you can to use in BG. To top that off the stuff I cant get is advantage heavy. You act like this one item isnt the END ALL BE ALL as its been put to me.Yes, you cant get a banshee hoop unless you pvp on a pvp server. And no, if you were actually one of the good players from your server I couldnt get all the things you can bring into a bg. There are quite a few items I'd really like to have that I cant get anymore either. Just because you want something doesnt mean it should be handed to you.When you get a 24 mans smugs with 20 or more nag/vox these things you are calling small become X6 epic. We can only have 4 grps. You in this case forget your pvp skill and take advantage of the overpowerdness. You zerg all and we just take it. We can do nothing else. It's not skill possible. It's gear and gear only that make nag/vox premades so dominate in bgs.Yes pvp servers have an advantage in 80-89 bg's, yes you get to wear free easymode pvp gear once you get to 90, next topic please, have a nice day. Cant wait till they take your advantage and blue servers own you. We are gonna show you all that we can pvp but just choose to do it in moderation.While I have no doubt that there are many pve players capable of doing very well in pvp, from this post I highly doubt that you are one of them.Feel the raaggeee...feeeel theeee raaageeeeee.</blockquote>Ouch, block of text.</blockquote>Lol. I am not even a little mad at you. No rage for you bud. Was this post supposed to show your intelligence? Bet you went back to nag/vox and put up the ole I told him off I did speach.You really think we take this shiz into the game?I say "You are all trying to convince us that you deserve a pvp advantage in bg because you are pvpers. What you fail to understand is bg's are not for pvp servers."-What the heck is wrong with you. If BG's are NOT for pvpers then why in the name of Odus did they include it in this expansion with the ablitiy for Nagafen and Vox players to participate? *i know i know, your next argument is 'sepeart bgs for red and blue. W/E. When you prove on the field of battle that you can actually play your class instead of sniveling on this forum about 'it's not fair...waaaaaa' then maybe someone will actually listen to what you have to say. Or, better yet, come up with a solution instead of 'i want it all now daddy...wwaaaaaaa'.* You say "No one has said this." You need to read some more forums here on battlegrounds. It's being said in abundance.You like the rest think BG's were put into the game for pvpers. Wrong.-Actually, aside from getting a token even for losing and not dropping a chest from dying, I'm seeing very VERY small differences in BG pvp vs. Open world PvP. There are differences but you don't see me complaining that it's not fair because it's not the same do you? So, in essence, BG's were put in for PvEers AND PvPers. Next whine.You like the rest think that because you play 100% pvp you deserve to bring advantage gear to the new content that is world wide. Wrong.-Acutally, yes we do. We most certainly DO deserve to bring our advantage to the BG's. Did you not come to BG's in your fabled raid gear?I have said it before and I will say it again. I expect to loose to nag/vox premades for a while. I understand that you have been playing pvp and have some added experience in Battlegrounds.Bangle of righteous angerShifting BandVenirils GuardAdmirals ChainElusive LoopXebnok's band of MightBlessed Temporal ChainAnd many more...............These items will still be used by lvl 90 players in BG and will add an advantage. An unobtainable advantage by blue servers. FACT Jack. Or is it Sue?Yes, they will. Much like your mythicals will still be in use from T-8 because there really isn't anything better out there yet that I've seen. And again, I'm positive that because of cry fests like this one, the devs are already in work at making all that T-8 pvp gear availabe to the masses because it'll make you happy. But what you fail to understand is that a lot of what you listed is very 'class' specific. If you think you're gonna get all of it on your toon you are sadly mistaken.</blockquote>Again, i'm not trying to start a flame war, but that's all I'm seeing out of this post that you keep puting up. Here's an idea...go play BG's and get the gear you CAN get now and when/if they make the t-8 gear available to t-8 toons, knock yourself out on an alt.

Naggasaki

03-09-2010, 06:43 AM

<cite>Xisi@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xisi@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>I bet with 99% that if they don't separate BGs, the developers will put those unique PvP gears in blue servers. It's simply illogical not to. It's probably an oversight. "just don't give it to blues, because it's PvP items?" lol I heard someone said Bg is also about PvP, that's why BG gear has something like "only works in pvp combat." Are you nag players so scared of pve players with those items? That makes me laugh so hard. What harm does it do since it really is only useful for PvP? It will own people in BGs? Then you admit that it's unfair advantage to nag players. So much failures. Well enjoy BGs when playerr from pve servers are no longer interested in BGs. People still don't realize it's for the best interest of the game to attrack as many players as possible in all aspects of game.</blockquote>No, It's because we busted our butts to level, quest, level aa, attain items we want while dealing with open world PvP while doing all of those and yet you blue servers want to come in and still have all the safety we lose in all those things to reap the exact same rewards. A banshee hoop isn't going to make a bad healer good, but the principle of handing out the rewards we got for open world PvP to blue servers on top of what they did with BG gear is what I, and most others are against.</blockquote>You busted your butt? Well grats, you had those items for a while and had fun in your server to own or be owned. But you know what, every game resets or wipes old gear when there is new expansion. You cannot just keep old items forever unique or powerful. Otherwise, new players won't be able to catch up.A game is constantly evoling, you cannot expect your past efforts should reward you indefinitely. Remember, it's a GAME.So am I to assume that you would be ok with your character losing all 200 of those hard earned AA and all 80 of those mind numbing levels...in the sake of new players catching up? Come on.This also applies to this expanion esp with new feature such as BGs. It has to have a fresh start for all players. You can have the advantage for a while, just like old raiders have the advantage in new contents, but you cannot make the advantage permanent or too steep. That's why T9 legendary items replace replace some of T8 fable items from the hardest raids.</blockquote>

Ralpmet

03-09-2010, 11:26 AM

The thing that gets to me is reading that PVP armor was/is free.Excuse me? Do you have any idea what kind of time sink it was for ALL of us to get enough tokens for full pvp armor, jewelry, shield, and whatever else they picked up? Here's a breakdown of what I got on my INQ, who is missing 2 pieces of pvp jewelry.Total ARMOR tokens:700Total JEWELRY/OTHER tokens:500That's 1200 total tokens spent. To give you a feel of how long it took to get blueby's, lets do it mathmatically.5 Tokens per quest, 1 quest per 10 minutes.Thats 30 tokens an hour, 40 hours of work. You really deserve that for free. And I'm not even decked out, nor was I always able to complete a writ in 10 minutes (sometimes updates get far an inbetween with the /recent system, or you'd get locked in some big fight for way longer than you wanted.) And the whole time you're getting these tokens, it's just like how blueby's are in the BG's now, no one on the PVP server STARTED with the pvp gear, there was always someone with better crap than yours but you pushed through it and geared yourself out anyway. Get to t9 in the BG's, get your BG armor, and stop whining about how unfair it is.Just don't be ridiculous.

PeterJohn

03-09-2010, 12:50 PM

<cite>Ralpmet wrote:</cite><blockquote>5 Tokens per quest, 1 quest per 10 minutes.Thats 30 tokens an hour, 40 hours of work. You really deserve that for free. And I'm not even decked out, nor was I always able to complete a writ in 10 minutes (sometimes updates get far an inbetween with the /recent system, or you'd get locked in some big fight for way longer than you wanted.)And the whole time you're getting these tokens, it's just like how blueby's are in the BG's now, no one on the PVP server STARTED with the pvp gear, there was always someone with better crap than yours but you pushed through it and geared yourself out anyway. Get to t9 in the BG's, get your BG armor, and stop whining about how unfair it is.Just don't be ridiculous.</blockquote>Ralpmet, how many BG tokens does a Blue need to get that OP Banshee Hoop? Oh that's right, I can't get it. Guess the Reds just deserve that permanent advantage.

Shankapotomus

03-09-2010, 01:19 PM

<cite>PeterJohn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ralpmet wrote:</cite><blockquote>5 Tokens per quest, 1 quest per 10 minutes.Thats 30 tokens an hour, 40 hours of work. You really deserve that for free. And I'm not even decked out, nor was I always able to complete a writ in 10 minutes (sometimes updates get far an inbetween with the /recent system, or you'd get locked in some big fight for way longer than you wanted.)And the whole time you're getting these tokens, it's just like how blueby's are in the BG's now, no one on the PVP server STARTED with the pvp gear, there was always someone with better crap than yours but you pushed through it and geared yourself out anyway. Get to t9 in the BG's, get your BG armor, and stop whining about how unfair it is.Just don't be ridiculous.</blockquote>Ralpmet, how many BG tokens does a Blue need to get that OP Banshee Hoop? Oh that's right, I can't get it. Guess the Reds just deserve that permanent advantage.</blockquote>Yes we do. Now really ask yourself, would it be fair to give you an item I killed.... 125/5 = 25x6 = 150 kills (with a 30 minute wait on each player killed before another update and writ cooldown) for maybe a couple of hours of battlegrounds play that you could be spending them on a more useful 90 BG item considering the Hoop is way less effective than the 90 gear. But I'm probably just QQ in right? Because thats what it looks like you're doing to me.Carry potions, get fear immune gear. Or learn to play your class better because a fear proc doesnt last long in a group orianted battle considering you are taking damage almost constantly.Permanent? Which PvP priest is going to keep their banshee hoop over a piece of the new 90 jewelier? Thats what I thought

Wytie

03-09-2010, 02:00 PM

<cite>Shankapotomus@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>PeterJohn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ralpmet wrote:</cite><blockquote>5 Tokens per quest, 1 quest per 10 minutes.Thats 30 tokens an hour, 40 hours of work. You really deserve that for free. And I'm not even decked out, nor was I always able to complete a writ in 10 minutes (sometimes updates get far an inbetween with the /recent system, or you'd get locked in some big fight for way longer than you wanted.)And the whole time you're getting these tokens, it's just like how blueby's are in the BG's now, no one on the PVP server STARTED with the pvp gear, there was always someone with better crap than yours but you pushed through it and geared yourself out anyway. Get to t9 in the BG's, get your BG armor, and stop whining about how unfair it is.Just don't be ridiculous.</blockquote>Ralpmet, how many BG tokens does a Blue need to get that OP Banshee Hoop? Oh that's right, I can't get it. Guess the Reds just deserve that permanent advantage.</blockquote>Yes we do. Now really ask yourself, would it be fair to give you an item I killed.... 125/5 = 25x6 = 150 kills (with a 30 minute wait on each player killed before another update and writ cooldown) for maybe a couple of hours of battlegrounds play that you could be spending them on a more useful 90 BG item considering the Hoop is way less effective than the 90 gear. But I'm probably just QQ in right? Because thats what it looks like you're doing to me.Carry potions, get fear immune gear. Or learn to play your class better because a fear proc doesnt last long in a group orianted battle considering you are taking damage almost constantly.Permanent? Which PvP priest is going to keep their banshee hoop over a piece of the new 90 jewelier? Thats what I thought</blockquote>I would, just because of all the QQ it has received.Id where it and link it in group chat before and during every match. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Taldier

03-09-2010, 02:18 PM

<cite>PeterJohn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ralpmet, how many BG tokens does a Blue need to get that OP Banshee Hoop? Oh that's right, I can't get it. Guess the Reds just deserve that permanent advantage.</blockquote>And this is the point:There is no quantity of "making a sandwich and watching tv" tokens that are not free in comparison toany number of real open pvp tokens.

Xisi

03-09-2010, 07:59 PM

To summarize, the playerrs in PvP servers want to keep those unique items to them while still able to engage in shared BGs because of their pain in PvP servers.So did you guys roll pvP servers becauser you want those unique items or you just enjoy world PvP? It's mind boggling some players can be that selfish. What harm will introduction of those items in pve servers servers do? (note: not free as some indicated?) Nothing, except your epee will be diminished.PvP items were introduced so people on pvp servers can PvP. Not other way around as the reason people PvP because they want those items. Same as raid items. Raid items have to be introduced in order for raiders to progress, not the other way around.

Taldier

03-09-2010, 08:11 PM

<cite>Xisi@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>To summarize, the playerrs in PvP servers want to keep those unique items to them while still able to engage in shared BGs because of their pain in PvP servers.So did you guys roll pvP servers becauser you want those unique items or you just enjoy world PvP? It's mind boggling some players can be that selfish. What harm will introduction of those items in pve servers servers do? (note: not free as some indicated?) Nothing, except your epee will be diminished.PvP items were introduced so people on pvp servers can PvP. Not other way around as the reason people PvP because they want those items. Same as raid items. Raid items have to be introduced in order for raiders to progress, not the other way around.</blockquote>To summarize, the casual players on pve servers want to be handed free gear because they are unable to aquire the equivalant raid gear due to be lazy and needing things handed to them.Pvp items were introduced as an alternate means of gear progression on pvp servers. This alternate means of gear progression was never intended for pve servers because the players on these servers CHOOSE not to engage in any alternate playstyle other than pve.

03-09-2010, 08:15 PM

I don't think they want the items for free, they want them to be added to the BG merchants.

Taldier

03-09-2010, 08:16 PM

<cite>Ambu@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don't think they want the items for free, they want them to be added to the BG merchants.</blockquote>There is no difference between needing to spend "making a sandwich and watching tv" tokens and getting something for free.

Ralpmet

03-09-2010, 09:42 PM

You keep saying that like it's a fact.Pvp servers weren't like battlegrounds, you aren't guarenteed 6 updates in 10 minutes. There weren't constantly zergfests, though there were some a majority of the time it was small battles taking place at different parts of kp. I don't care if you think you could've afk'd and made a sandwhich and made the 1k+ tokens you needed for all the gear, it wouldn't of happened and you haven't and probably won't spend the 40 hours+ it took us to get the gear to get it.

Crismorn

03-10-2010, 01:03 AM

<cite>Taldier@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ambu@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don't think they want the items for free, they want them to be added to the BG merchants.</blockquote>There is no difference between needing to spend "making a sandwich and watching tv" tokens and getting something for free.</blockquote>There is however a massive difference between open world pvp and a giant zerg of people in one zone getting updates without any loss upon death.

Taldier

03-10-2010, 01:21 AM

<cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Taldier@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ambu@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don't think they want the items for free, they want them to be added to the BG merchants.</blockquote>There is no difference between needing to spend "making a sandwich and watching tv" tokens and getting something for free.</blockquote>There is however a massive difference between open world pvp and a giant zerg of people in one zone getting updates without any loss upon death.</blockquote>Theres also a difference between solidly killing a pve mob and zerging it at a respawn. Certain people will always look for some way to cheat the system. That doesnt mean you just throw up your hands and give the rewards to anyone who wants them.You will find the number of "hardcore zergers" running around in full pvp gear to be substantially smaller than you may be led to believe by some of the posters on this forum.

Crismorn

03-10-2010, 01:30 AM

<cite>Taldier@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Taldier@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ambu@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don't think they want the items for free, they want them to be added to the BG merchants.</blockquote>There is no difference between needing to spend "making a sandwich and watching tv" tokens and getting something for free.</blockquote>There is however a massive difference between open world pvp and a giant zerg of people in one zone getting updates without any loss upon death.</blockquote>Theres also a difference between solidly killing a pve mob and zerging it at a respawn. Certain people will always look for some way to cheat the system. That doesnt mean you just throw up your hands and give the rewards to anyone who wants them.You will find the number of "hardcore zergers" running around in full pvp gear to be substantially smaller than you may be led to believe by some of the posters on this forum.</blockquote>Im not going to argue with someone who is willing to play under such a ruleset of pvp, but I will say that you wanting certain pieces of gear as an advantage against most of the people you play against does make alot of sense.Its a shame you cant win through tactics you should have honed over the last few years

Notsovilepriest

03-10-2010, 01:33 AM

<cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Taldier@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Taldier@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ambu@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don't think they want the items for free, they want them to be added to the BG merchants.</blockquote>There is no difference between needing to spend "making a sandwich and watching tv" tokens and getting something for free.</blockquote>There is however a massive difference between open world pvp and a giant zerg of people in one zone getting updates without any loss upon death.</blockquote>Theres also a difference between solidly killing a pve mob and zerging it at a respawn. Certain people will always look for some way to cheat the system. That doesnt mean you just throw up your hands and give the rewards to anyone who wants them.You will find the number of "hardcore zergers" running around in full pvp gear to be substantially smaller than you may be led to believe by some of the posters on this forum.</blockquote>Im not going to argue with someone who is willing to play under such a ruleset of pvp, but I will say that you wanting certain pieces of gear as an advantage against most of the people you play against does make alot of sense.Its a shame you cant win through tactics you should have honed over the last few years</blockquote>How many times do we have to say it to get it through your thick skull. We don't NEED the item for anything, it was ours for an alternative form of gear progression on PvP servers so those who wanted to PvP and compete well didn't have to raid. Seeing as, you aren't on a PvP server, You're out of luck