The Void: Conclusions? [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

Maergoth

03-07-2010, 02:57 AM

After diving head first into this expansion I think some key pieces of the puzzle are finally falling into place. Since this has been tagged as the end of the void storyline, it's worth trying to put it all together (Roughly in chronological order).Roehn Theer, The Godslayer: Banished to the void by a currently unknown process by the gods themselves, his job is to equalize any uprising in one direction or another. He has special strength over the gods and has excersized it countless forgotten times in the past. Toiling in the void since before our pantheon even came about, he has gained a heavy resentment for every creature in the universe and is more than happy to help along a fresh start. His minions were sent to retrieve both parts of his legendary weapon (Aeteok and Enoxus.. Soulfire and the Qeynos Claymore) in order to bring himself back to full power and into our realm.Anashti Sul: Previous goddess of health, she attempted to grant her people immortality using the Ewer of Sul`Dae. Her failure resulted in the unleashing of Undeath on Norrath and she was banished to the void. She met with Roehn Theer and they started orchestrating a plan. Her intention was to use him to escape and leave him behind, wanting to regain her rightful place as the goddess of health without his interference.The Shadowed Men / Jal`Raeth / Sul`Raeth: A mysterious race of alien people who became fascinated with death due to their inability to experience it. Their origin is most likely traced back to the planet Prime. Their appearance is a hard argument to shoot down, so we have to try and fit them in. It's highly likely that they are a split faction of Rodcet's race who wanted to find alternate means of immortality and traveled to Norrath to find it. Upon arriving, they stumbled across Anashti's little Ewer, used it, and got banished for their transgressions. In the void, they met Anashti Sul and began resenting Rodcet who replaced their newly revered diety, and their brethren for obtaining pseudo-immortality through science with no repercussions. They proceeded to hop between worlds infiltrating their inner workings and draining anything useful they might have and adding it to their arsenal, including the Grathok and several other misfit beings. We know of a single item of weakness which is spoken of in the Three Keys books and uncovered in recent Kunark expeditions. It's referred to as a "shard of the sun" by the burynai and sought after by many.Rodcet Nife and Prime: On a planet far far away, we know existed a highly advanced alien race. These beings have excelled in medicine and even space travel. Their race was border lined immortal and almost completely immune to all illness, until a curious one started spreading throughout their species. The Panacea cure developed by Dr. Rodger Effin (Rodcet Nife) was called into question by Dr. Bartholomew Oculus (Bertoxxulous), claiming that it was the cause of this malforming illness afflicting their people. It's assumed that the Shadowed Men, AKA Sul`Raeth were responsible for planting this illness and that the "Nightbloods" that resulted were conscripted into their forces. Rodcet Nife either during this time or shortly after chased a race known as the Xulous to Norrath and prevented the spreading of their plague. After developing a following, he was appointed to the title of Prime Healer, replacing Anashti as the god of health.The Erudites and Odus: The original pioneers of modern day teleportation, some Erudites have considered themselves responsible for repairing the dead teleportation system. Roehn Theer's agents contacted an erudian scholar named El`Arad with intent in ordering the creation of a new nexus. An underlying secret plot to enable a bridge between the void and Norrath would also come to fruition. With all of Odus severed from the rest of Norrath as a result of turbulent seas and the destruction of the nexus, El`Arad disbanded many stabilizing organizations and usurped control of Erudin. Giving many of Erudin's higher-ups to the shadowed men, full work began on a new nexus under Quel`ule. Upon activation, the magical energies were amplified by the unique crystals in the ground and channeled powerfully into the nexus. We assume it detonated the dresolisk crystal and destroying the new spire system, Luclin and disfiguring the entire erudite race. After recent repairs we have returned to Odus which is being tugged between the void and the underfoot, at risk of collapsing into itself and taking the entirety of the underfoot and Norrath with it.If you have anything to contribute, feel free. If you have anything to contest, feel free. This is all that fits together so far, and I really think this is as spot on as it can get with what we currently know.

Pahya

03-07-2010, 05:04 AM

I love Norrath, am a huge fan of the lore etc etc but I just have to say that this ..."Rodcet Nife and Prime: On a planet far far away, we know existed a highly advanced alien race. These beings have excelled in medicine and even space travel. Their race was border lined immortal and almost completely immune to all illness, until a curious one started spreading throughout their species. The Panacea cure developed by Dr. Rodger Effin (Rodcet Nife) was called into question by Dr. Bartholomew Oculus (Bertoxxulous), claiming that it was the cause of this malforming illness afflicting their people. It's assumed that the Shadowed Men, AKA Sul`Raeth were responsible for planting this illness and that the "Nightbloods" that resulted were conscripted into their forces. Rodcet Nife either during this time or shortly after chased a race known as the Xulous to Norrath and prevented the spreading of their plague. After developing a following, he was appointed to the title of Prime Healer, replacing Anashti as the god of health."... may just be the dumbest thing I've ever seen crop up in an otherwise fantasy setting. It's like the idea your DM comes up with at 4am during a sugar crash from a night of chugging mountain dew when he just desperately wants to tie things up and get you all out of his dorm as quick as he can because he has a calc test at eight.

Nightshade

03-07-2010, 07:18 AM

Everquest has... aliens?Bertoxxulus was a... doctor... named Bartholomew?It's really late here, and I only skimmed this, but I think that just thoroughly fried what was left of my brain. *passes out*My innocent newbie understanding of Evequest has been tainted forever!

Cusashorn

03-07-2010, 07:40 AM

<cite>Pahya wrote:</cite><blockquote>... may just be the dumbest thing I've ever seen crop up in an otherwise fantasy setting. It's like the idea your DM comes up with at 4am during a sugar crash from a night of chugging mountain dew when he just desperately wants to tie things up and get you all out of his dorm as quick as he can because he has a calc test at eight. </blockquote>Would it surprise you if that actually was the case?

Meirril

03-07-2010, 07:48 AM

The whole part of Bertoxxulous sharing an origin with Rodcet has been debated for years. Anagrams were a specially loved device of the devs for years. This all comes from the book Rememberances: Prime which you can get from the Obelisk of Lost Souls (OoLS).Many people have messed around with the Ewer over time. I don't think the Jal'Raeth were banished to the void for that. Nobody knows what their offense is, right? Anyone? Pics or it didn't happen.The pioneers of modern teleportation were the Combine Empire and its Geomancers. The Euradites cribbed their work when they designed the Ulterian Spire Network and included a fatal flaw that had the Ulterian Network attempting to connect with the origional Nexus on Luclin instead of the new Farsian Nexus. While some in-game lore explicidly states that El'Arad didn't know about this flaw, I am going to go out on a limb and state the in-game sources we have didn't know El'Arad's true intent and that he did know and was counting on the feedback reaction to take Odus into Ulteria so he could free his master. Everything about that occured according to his plans.Also, we can't really say exactly when this all happened in relation to the Shattering. We know this all took place after the Rending because you couldn't teleport or use sea travel. This could of happened pre-shattering (nexus access denied), as a trigger for the shattering (OP's interp), or after the shattering (no nexus leads to feedback). I think if we keep poking around Odus we might get a better clue. Again, pics or it didn't happen (at least be able to cite a reference!)More mysterious, we know that every Euradite accross all dimensions was changed...except for the void touched. Why not them? Why not a few of the Euradites in Paineel? (traitors amongst us?) Honestly...what is going on here?

Maergoth

03-07-2010, 09:10 AM

The whole story does sound a little far-fetched and definitely has a sci fi feel to it. Everquest has always gone out on some pretty outrageous limbs (Veeshan flying through outer space to Norrath and then flying away) but for those that have been following the story for a long time, it's not as bad as it sounds. I don't like the flavor the void forces took on this expansion or the art style so much as the original, but I am glad to see the story finally on the fore-front.The Jal`Raeth in EQOA were found around the area where the Ewer was first used (The Dead Hills) and were obsessed with the idea of death. I'd be hard pressed to believe that they didn't mess around with it. The fact that the Jal`Raeth quickly jumped to Anashti's side either right before or after getting banished to the void pays well to the idea. Why they were banished where others were not is still up in the air, however it could have something to do with Roehn and Anashti's planning to escape the void.I don't consider the combine's work "Modern", and they are just as much thieves of the technology as the Erudites. Most recently (Modern) usage of spires was the result of Al`Kabor's efforts at utilizing the quadroliths on Norrath and connecting them with an unreachable at that time Luclin. After many attempts with similarly grave consequences, he got it right. El`Arad definitely had every intent of freeing Roehn Theer from the start. He states this in the theatrical performance of "The Fall of Erudin". We are also told in-game that the moon as intact at the time of activation, and well.. the opposite of intact some time later.It's true, we still don't know why some Erudites were spared the transformation, but it's definitely not limited to those working for the void. Al`Kabor himself is working to thwart his evil efforts and his image has been maintained. His connection with Dartain may have something to do with it.

denmom

03-07-2010, 10:12 AM

It's stated that 200 years ago from current time is when Odus was tossed into Ultera.This is from the first NPC at Moonfield Hamlet in Stonebrunt Highlands, right at the steps. He gives a good run down on what happened and such. Sorry I can't remember his name. >_<So guess that's close enough to a pic? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

iceriven2

03-07-2010, 12:05 PM

<cite>Maergoth wrote:</cite><blockquote>Rodcet Nife and Prime: On a planet far far away, we know existed a highly advanced alien race. These beings have excelled in medicine and even space travel. Their race was border lined immortal and almost completely immune to all illness, until a curious one started spreading throughout their species. The Panacea cure developed by Dr. Rodger Effin (Rodcet Nife) was called into question by Dr. Bartholomew Oculus (Bertoxxulous), claiming that it was the cause of this malforming illness afflicting their people. It's assumed that the Shadowed Men, AKA Sul`Raeth were responsible for planting this illness and that the "Nightbloods" that resulted were conscripted into their forces. Rodcet Nife either during this time or shortly after chased a race known as the Xulous to Norrath and prevented the spreading of their plague. After developing a following, he was appointed to the title of Prime Healer, replacing Anashti as the god of health.</blockquote>I am curious about the info about bert and where it came from. Only b/c in eq1 he had no past assc with Nife, Bert was a creation of Norrath and an acient races tomb of dead kings.I know eq2 devs have np retconning lore but stiill like to know where this info is from.

Cusashorn

03-07-2010, 03:07 PM

<cite>iceriven2 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Maergoth wrote:</cite><blockquote>Rodcet Nife and Prime: On a planet far far away, we know existed a highly advanced alien race. These beings have excelled in medicine and even space travel. Their race was border lined immortal and almost completely immune to all illness, until a curious one started spreading throughout their species. The Panacea cure developed by Dr. Rodger Effin (Rodcet Nife) was called into question by Dr. Bartholomew Oculus (Bertoxxulous), claiming that it was the cause of this malforming illness afflicting their people. It's assumed that the Shadowed Men, AKA Sul`Raeth were responsible for planting this illness and that the "Nightbloods" that resulted were conscripted into their forces. Rodcet Nife either during this time or shortly after chased a race known as the Xulous to Norrath and prevented the spreading of their plague. After developing a following, he was appointed to the title of Prime Healer, replacing Anashti as the god of health.</blockquote>I am curious about the info about bert and where it came from. Only b/c in eq1 he had no past assc with Nife, Bert was a creation of Norrath and an acient races tomb of dead kings.I know eq2 devs have np retconning lore but stiill like to know where this info is from.</blockquote>Books from the Obelik of Lost Souls are where we first got an inkling of who Rodcet Nife and Bertoxxulous originally were. Given the fact that neither god actually had very much lore at all, they're not exactly considered a retcon. The creation story of Bertoxxulous from the Planes of Power is just that: A creation story. There was no real evidence anywhere else in the game to confirm their truth. It was during the live events from the summer of 2008 that semi-confirmered the connections between all those books found in the Obelisk of Lost Souls. I say Semi-confirmed because the Rodcet Nife diety questline only mentions it in passing without going into further detail. Basically he says that him and Bertoxxulous have known each other since before they came to Norrath.

Cusashorn

03-07-2010, 03:09 PM

<cite>Pheep@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>It's stated that 200 years ago from current time is when Odus was tossed into Ultera.This is from the first NPC at Moonfield Hamlet in Stonebrunt Highlands, right at the steps. He gives a good run down on what happened and such. Sorry I can't remember his name. >_<So guess that's close enough to a pic? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>The fact that she says it was only 200 years ago that teleportation was cut off *COMPLETELY* throws out the entire Age of Destiny/Tome of Destiny timeline. I went into a more detailed explanation in the thread itself.

Mary the Prophetess

03-07-2010, 05:33 PM

This inattention to detail of previous lore by developers can threaten to destroy much of the previously established lore. More care should be taken by those whose job it is to be the stewards of Norrath.

Maergoth

03-07-2010, 07:01 PM

Tales of the Xulous were probably spread by draconic word of mouth. Knowing that Veeshan traveled to different planets, it's possible that they simply adjusted the story to properly spook their younger kin. The original story of Lxanvon and the birthing of Bertoxxulous to a race of beings that built dragon bone citadels was clearly marked as a "boogeyman" type story. For a story like that to be effective, it can't take place millions of miles away on a different planet, whether it originated there or not.That implication definitely means Dragons exist on other planets than Norrath, one of which is possibly Berrox.. where the story probably originated.Also, recent thought has suggested that the Jal`Raeth may have assisted Anashti in the creation of the Ewer.Also, 200 years ago was when Odus shifted into Ultera, not when the teleportation capabilities were lost. As far as I understand, it was quite some time after that the Erudites begun construction of the fasarian nexus, and even later that they activated it. That kind of places the shattering at.. 200 years ago, which is definitely awry.

Jrral

03-07-2010, 07:09 PM

<cite>Pahya wrote:</cite><blockquote>... may just be the dumbest thing I've ever seen crop up in an otherwise fantasy setting. It's like the idea your DM comes up with at 4am during a sugar crash from a night of chugging mountain dew when he just desperately wants to tie things up and get you all out of his dorm as quick as he can because he has a calc test at eight. </blockquote>Given how EverQuest started, I'm willing to bet you nailed it. Not all things a DM comes up with are good ideas.

Cusashorn

03-07-2010, 08:53 PM

<cite>Maergoth wrote:</cite><blockquote>Also, 200 years ago was when Odus shifted into Ultera, not when the teleportation capabilities were lost. As far as I understand, it was quite some time after that the Erudites begun construction of the fasarian nexus, and even later that they activated it. That kind of places the shattering at.. 200 years ago, which is definitely awry.</blockquote><img src="http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a291/Cusashorn/JinanHaffah.png" />

Nightshade

03-07-2010, 09:21 PM

It sort of reminds me of a Piers Anthony book, what with the mixing of sci-fi and magic.Hope we don't come to find out that magic in Norrath is actually just the effects of some huge underground machine powered by something like, oh I don't know, Phazite/Protonite (Apprentice Adept series, anyone?).

Maergoth

03-07-2010, 10:17 PM

That block of text just says that they were considering building them ~200 years ago, which fits timeline wise with the loss of the ability to teleport. If that's the only statement in question, then nothing is really thrown into the air. I thought someone said Odus was phased into Ultera 200 years ago?

Cusashorn

03-08-2010, 12:01 AM

I honestly can't see how you could interperate that line in any other way. The way it is said strongly sounds like teleportation was cut off from Luclin about 200 years ago, and the rest of the dialogue indicates the Erudites got to work after that.

Meirril

03-08-2010, 08:43 AM

<cite>Maergoth wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don't consider the combine's work "Modern", and they are just as much thieves of the technology as the Erudites. Most recently (Modern) usage of spires was the result of Al`Kabor's efforts at utilizing the quadroliths on Norrath and connecting them with an unreachable at that time Luclin. After many attempts with similarly grave consequences, he got it right. El`Arad definitely had every intent of freeing Roehn Theer from the start. He states this in the theatrical performance of "The Fall of Erudin". We are also told in-game that the moon as intact at the time of activation, and well.. the opposite of intact some time later.</blockquote>The Combine Spires are the first teleportation technology developed. Nobody knows anything about the druid rings, but we can draw the spire system directly to the Combine Empire. You can even see two types of spires. The early pyramid design and the later pylon design. Lore also states that the Combine magic of "Geomancy" was responsble both for the Combine Spire System's creation and how quickly their cities were raised. Unfortunately, with the fall of the Combine Empire Geomancy was lost.We've got a fairly reliable timeline that includes the Shattering taking place sometime in the last 50 years. Give or take a decade. I'm not sure how this fits in with the "Feed back" or any other Odus timeline event.

Saroc_Luclin

03-08-2010, 09:56 AM

Frankly, I find the Bertox tie-in a tough one to swallow, given the book and the lore/Zones in EQLive's PoP we have. The Lxanvon story is reinforced by the Plane of Disease and Crypt of Decay zones, where, during the Bertox event, you fight those 12 (was it 12?) Kings that were in the story. While we don't have all that much lore on most of the Gods (especially when you limit it to PoP and before), Bertox seems to be one that we do have more than most about.

Cusashorn

03-08-2010, 11:52 AM

<cite>Saroc_Luclin wrote:</cite><blockquote>Frankly, I find the Bertox tie-in a tough one to swallow, given the book and the lore/Zones in EQLive's PoP we have. The Lxanvon story is reinforced by the Plane of Disease and Crypt of Decay zones, where, during the Bertox event, you fight those 12 (was it 12?) Kings that were in the story. While we don't have all that much lore on most of the Gods (especially when you limit it to PoP and before), Bertox seems to be one that we do have more than most about.</blockquote>Actually there's a significant amount of lore on all of the gods well before PoP came out. Bert had nothing at all, but the Crypt of Decay doesn't exactly back up the creation story as there's no dialogue to indicate that it's how it happened.

Maergoth

03-08-2010, 12:36 PM

I think maybe you're misunderstanding what I'm saying, or just reiterating agreement. That line says nothing more than the fact that we lost teleportation 200 years ago. It doesn't say that the Erudites immediately after built them and used them. That didn't happen until much later.The "Combine" spires are no such thing. They were developed years prior by the shissar or an even earlier race. The Journal of Al`Kabor completely denounces the combine pioneering of teleportation. Here's a bit of quoting from "The Journal of Al`Kabor".. EQ1 stuffs.Written amongst pages of the ancient tomes of the Combine Empire, I discovered something that contradicts what has been theorized about the Combine ruins. For years, it was believed that the Combine Empire created the structures that facilitate teleportation for wizards, however, I found evidence in the ancient tomes that proves these theories to be incorrect. Within their manuscripts, scientists of the Combine Empire made notes of the discovery of sets of four tall spires found in several areas across Norrath. The spires emanated a magical energy that was unexplainable. After years of extensive research and experimental studies of the structures, they came across a method of using this power for teleporting to several locations. In order to use this power to its fullest, they built the pyramidal structures in the middle of each set of these monuments. As I study the Combine spires... no... as a man of knowledge I can not continue giving credit to the Combine Empire for creating something they did not. The quadroliths, as I see more fit to dub them, contain a tremendous amount of power. Some time ago, I sent my assistant Sorko Talvazon to scrape some fragments off the portal in the Dreadlands. I hope this will be possible. Before I continue with my research, I must study this magical energy closer.Also, it's possible that the story of Berrox took place prior to that of Prime, and that Bertox simply manifested himself as an opposing player to Rodcet because of his infamy as a healer.

Rainmare

03-08-2010, 01:39 PM

The biggest problem really in trying to connect the Shattering to the Farsian Nexus is time. but we also know that the nature of Time differs. for example, in the Void, we meet the ethernaughts, a thousand or so years after thier time. if you do the crafting sig in SF, you get to talk to Kaltuk, where you ask how the battle with Anashti went. he has no idea what your talking about, because according to him, they haven't been able to get near her yet. It could very well be that while Odus has gone through 200 years, since the Rending, that they did cause the Shattering as well.The story of the Feedback being the Farsian nexus getting a massive feedback from teh ulteran spires attempting to connect to Luclin seems to fit with the idea that the Luclin is first seen after quite sometime moments before the shattering. everytime so far that someone was able to teleport, or attempted to teleport to luclin it has been unveiled. We know the Dresolisk Stone was there. it's very plausible that the same feedback that tore the Ulterean spires and the farsian nexus apart also occured on Luclin, which may detonated the Stone.The stone was designed to bring about in effect a nuclear holocaust to norrath, searing the entire surface in a firestorm. It may have, due to being inside the core of luclin, caused an explosion like they did in the movie Armageddon to the asteroid, as talked of in the following line from said movie:"You light a firecracker on your open hand...you burn your hand. take that same firecracker, and close your fist around it...and your wife will be opening your bottles for the rest of your life."As to Nife and Bertox...I could buy both stories as true. that the incidents on Prime were Bertox and Nife...physical manifestations or thier 'pre' godhood earthly bodies...and then the story in Lxanom being Bertox's 'birth' to Godhood, while Rodcet was appointed later.

Cusashorn

03-08-2010, 02:40 PM

<cite>Maergoth wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think maybe you're misunderstanding what I'm saying, or just reiterating agreement. That line says nothing more than the fact that we lost teleportation 200 years ago.</blockquote>So you agree with me that it states that Teleportation was cut off 200 years ago, which effectively messes up the entire Tome of Destiny timeline once you factor in the War of the Fay, 2nd Rallosian War, Rending, and Shattering into the mix? There's in-game references that the Rending itself lasted 300 years, took place after the 2nd Rallosian War, which itself took place after teleportation was cut off from Luclin and long before Felwithe turned themselves into a xenophobic race who don't offer thier help to any outsiders.

Stubbswick

03-08-2010, 04:27 PM

If there's some sort of time synch thing where time can go faster in Ultera than in Norrath... this whole thread and any attempt at connection is kinda [Removed for Content].I don't remember seeing references to the rending lasting 300 years... I thought it was more ~100 years or so. Which to me makes things more interesting.I never thought the shattering was caused by the attempt to open the Farisian nexus. Usually feedback (this event is known as the great feedback, right?) doesn't involve the target being interrupted/destroyed/harmed. Think of audio feedback... you hold a microphone up to a speaker, and you get a feedback loop that causes a blood curdling high whine. Hurts our ears. Doesn't really hurt the speakers any. So that's the kind of picture I have of the spires feedback event. It was "hooked up" to the Luclin nexus, and when they started it up, it caused a feedback loop that didn't do anything to Luclin, but drastically harmed Odus.I thought looking at the various timeline sources for the tomes of destiny, the start of the Rending could possibly line up with the ~200 or more years ago that Odus was moved to Ultera. Wouldn't that make sense? Think about it... the gods invade luclin and block it off. They leave. Then their avatars lead some to war, and some against war, and you have this period of incredible political turmoil. By the time it ends, the gods are already long gone. Then suddenly, out of the blue, there's this massive event that happens. It tears up the entire landscape. What caused it? We really have no other explanation for what caused the Rending. Some people have given some simple excuse of the influence of Tunare or Brell or whoever being gone, so the lands change. Well, that's all fine and good, but the gods were gone for hundreds of years before the Rending started. Why would everything be fine for hundreds of years, and then suddenly it becomes too hard for the land to hold shape and whatnot.My theory is that the Rending itself was caused by Odus leaving into Ultera. Imagine, with the hole, all it's area, and perhaps even parts of the Underfoot sucked into Ultera. It leaves a giant void underneath the continent, underneath the ocean, and perhaps into parts of what was the continent of Antonica. This could cause the land to collapse in on itself, and everything else that went on with the Rending. Look at an old map of EQ, and where the continents are. Is it sheer luck that Faydwer wasn't affected? Or Kunark? Why is the only continent really affected by the Rending the one next to (and from a geological perspective, probably connected to) Odus?Maybe I have something wrong with my dates... but this theory is really starting to make sense to me.

Pahya

03-08-2010, 06:20 PM

<cite>Jrral@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Pahya wrote:</cite><blockquote>... may just be the dumbest thing I've ever seen crop up in an otherwise fantasy setting. It's like the idea your DM comes up with at 4am during a sugar crash from a night of chugging mountain dew when he just desperately wants to tie things up and get you all out of his dorm as quick as he can because he has a calc test at eight. </blockquote>Given how EverQuest started, I'm willing to bet you nailed it. Not all things a DM comes up with are good ideas.</blockquote>I've come up with some crazy stuff for my groups in late night exhaustion and sugar induced poor judgement. Thing is, when I woke up the next morning I appropriately face palmed and fixed things. I didn't take a shockingly terrible, out of place idea and include it in a game that thousands of people have played for 10 years. -.- When I pointed out to my gaming partner that the Temple of Life in Qeynos is a freaking flying saucer he thought I was pulling his leg and when I explained, he didn't stop ranting for a good hour. I accept that it's part of the game now and not going anywhere, but I still think it's one of the most horrible lore decisions ever made in any created universe (up to an including the E.T./Star Wars connections) and reserve my right to shake me head at it all -.-

Eriol

03-08-2010, 07:22 PM

I'll have to look this up when I run another alt through it, but I thought in the crafting timeline for Quel'ule that it (or somebody around there) said that the initial activation of the spires, and the subsequent "shifting" of Odus into Ultera was a seperate event from when Quel'ule itself was destroyed. Basically, the first was what shifted Odus into Ultera, and the 2nd event (which is relatively recently) was when Quel'ule was destroyed. I'll have to look again and make sure I'm not mis-interpreting NPC dialogue, but if true, it would actually explain it, since it'd be two seperate events. 200-ish years ago Odus disappears, and 50 (or so) years ago, they "try something again", blow up the Farisian Nexus, and detonate Luclin too.Like I said, I'm going to have to check out the Quel'ule NPCs again.As for the "200 years ago teleportation left us" NPC (that breaks all the other timelines), maybe somebody just screwed up when writing the dialogue? That's always possible that an author working for them had notes on what to write and just wrote the wrong thing, and editing missed it. Screw-ups happen.

Stubbswick

03-08-2010, 07:53 PM

<cite>Pahya wrote:</cite><blockquote>I've come up with some crazy stuff for my groups in late night exhaustion and sugar induced poor judgement. Thing is, when I woke up the next morning I appropriately face palmed and fixed things. I didn't take a shockingly terrible, out of place idea and include it in a game that thousands of people have played for 10 years. -.- When I pointed out to my gaming partner that the Temple of Life in Qeynos is a freaking flying saucer he thought I was pulling his leg and when I explained, he didn't stop ranting for a good hour. I accept that it's part of the game now and not going anywhere, but I still think it's one of the most horrible lore decisions ever made in any created universe (up to an including the E.T./Star Wars connections) and reserve my right to shake me head at it all -.- </blockquote>You know, the Temple of Life thing doesn't bother me too much. Sci-fi/space-related material has existed in fantasy games for a long time (I believe there was even a similar "space ship" type thing on one of the early D&D adventure modules). Now, if the story ends up like the OP suggested... yeah that's pretty ridiculous. But inter-planetary travel, and advanced technologies and such... I think it's alright if it's done well. I mean, the very story of EQ is rooted in space travel. Veeshan traveled through the cosmos, making her mark or spawning life on planet(s).Don't know if you've had a chance to go to the Erudin Research Halls yet. I found the artwork in the zone fascinating, because it was this really neat juxtaposition of advanced technology (machinery, electricity, even lasers), with the feeling of an old building. Large marble columns and walls and such. It doesn't give off the typical pristine, shiney, ultra modern sci-fi kind of vibes, so it somehow feels like it belongs.

Cusashorn

03-08-2010, 08:56 PM

FYI: The Temple of Life has been in Everquest from the absolute beginning.

Mirander_1

03-08-2010, 10:00 PM

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Maergoth wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think maybe you're misunderstanding what I'm saying, or just reiterating agreement. That line says nothing more than the fact that we lost teleportation 200 years ago.</blockquote>So you agree with me that it states that Teleportation was cut off 200 years ago, which effectively messes up the entire Tome of Destiny timeline once you factor in the War of the Fay, 2nd Rallosian War, Rending, and Shattering into the mix? There's in-game references that the Rending itself lasted 300 years, took place after the 2nd Rallosian War, which itself took place after teleportation was cut off from Luclin and long before Felwithe turned themselves into a xenophobic race who don't offer thier help to any outsiders.</blockquote>I'm not really sure where you got the 300 year number for the Rending, but Teleportation being cut off 200 years ago isn't a revelation. It was mentioned in the Tome of Destiny, in the 'Attack on the Nexus' chapter.

Maergoth

03-08-2010, 11:08 PM

That's what was confusing me, I thought he was contesting the teleportation getting cut off 200 years ago.All-in-all, I'm more than broken in to the idea of more advanced civilizations on other planets.. probably because I believe it to be possible in the real universe as well. I don't think it's out of place. The whole feeling of being part of a much grander scheme is actually very humbling.. it makes the cut-and-dry level progression feel less painful.To kill the hardest monster in the world and then be faced with another hardest mob in the world.. very repetitive after a while. It's much more believable when they aren't from your world <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Meirril

03-08-2010, 11:23 PM

<cite>Maergoth wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think maybe you're misunderstanding what I'm saying, or just reiterating agreement. That line says nothing more than the fact that we lost teleportation 200 years ago. It doesn't say that the Erudites immediately after built them and used them. That didn't happen until much later.The "Combine" spires are no such thing. They were developed years prior by the shissar or an even earlier race. The Journal of Al`Kabor completely denounces the combine pioneering of teleportation. Here's a bit of quoting from "The Journal of Al`Kabor".. EQ1 stuffs.Written amongst pages of the ancient tomes of the Combine Empire, I discovered something that contradicts what has been theorized about the Combine ruins. For years, it was believed that the Combine Empire created the structures that facilitate teleportation for wizards, however, I found evidence in the ancient tomes that proves these theories to be incorrect.Within their manuscripts, scientists of the Combine Empire made notes of the discovery of sets of four tall spires found in several areas across Norrath. The spires emanated a magical energy that was unexplainable. After years of extensive research and experimental studies of the structures, they came across a method of using this power for teleporting to several locations. In order to use this power to its fullest, they built the pyramidal structures in the middle of each set of these monuments.As I study the Combine spires... no... as a man of knowledge I can not continue giving credit to the Combine Empire for creating something they did not. The quadroliths, as I see more fit to dub them, contain a tremendous amount of power. Some time ago, I sent my assistant Sorko Talvazon to scrape some fragments off the portal in the Dreadlands. I hope this will be possible. Before I continue with my research, I must study this magical energy closer.Also, it's possible that the story of Berrox took place prior to that of Prime, and that Bertox simply manifested himself as an opposing player to Rodcet because of his infamy as a healer.</blockquote>Interesting. Do you happen to know when this was introduced into EQ1 Lore? Do you happen to know if anything similar is in EQ2? Or for that matter, why was it included in EQ1 Lore?I'm going to say time split and retcon until given firm reasons to believe otherwise.

Meirril

03-08-2010, 11:28 PM

<cite>Stubbswick wrote:</cite><blockquote>If there's some sort of time synch thing where time can go faster in Ultera than in Norrath... this whole thread and any attempt at connection is kinda [Removed for Content].I don't remember seeing references to the rending lasting 300 years... I thought it was more ~100 years or so. Which to me makes things more interesting.I never thought the shattering was caused by the attempt to open the Farisian nexus. Usually feedback (this event is known as the great feedback, right?) doesn't involve the target being interrupted/destroyed/harmed. Think of audio feedback... you hold a microphone up to a speaker, and you get a feedback loop that causes a blood curdling high whine. Hurts our ears. Doesn't really hurt the speakers any. So that's the kind of picture I have of the spires feedback event. It was "hooked up" to the Luclin nexus, and when they started it up, it caused a feedback loop that didn't do anything to Luclin, but drastically harmed Odus.I thought looking at the various timeline sources for the tomes of destiny, the start of the Rending could possibly line up with the ~200 or more years ago that Odus was moved to Ultera. Wouldn't that make sense? Think about it... the gods invade luclin and block it off. They leave. Then their avatars lead some to war, and some against war, and you have this period of incredible political turmoil. By the time it ends, the gods are already long gone. Then suddenly, out of the blue, there's this massive event that happens. It tears up the entire landscape. What caused it? We really have no other explanation for what caused the Rending. Some people have given some simple excuse of the influence of Tunare or Brell or whoever being gone, so the lands change. Well, that's all fine and good, but the gods were gone for hundreds of years before the Rending started. Why would everything be fine for hundreds of years, and then suddenly it becomes too hard for the land to hold shape and whatnot.My theory is that the Rending itself was caused by Odus leaving into Ultera. Imagine, with the hole, all it's area, and perhaps even parts of the Underfoot sucked into Ultera. It leaves a giant void underneath the continent, underneath the ocean, and perhaps into parts of what was the continent of Antonica. This could cause the land to collapse in on itself, and everything else that went on with the Rending. Look at an old map of EQ, and where the continents are. Is it sheer luck that Faydwer wasn't affected? Or Kunark? Why is the only continent really affected by the Rending the one next to (and from a geological perspective, probably connected to) Odus?Maybe I have something wrong with my dates... but this theory is really starting to make sense to me.</blockquote>The whole bit about Odus being cut off from both teleportation and sea travel kinda says the Rending happened before they tried to activate the Ulterian Network. The Rending is what caused world-wide sea travel to not be a possability.

Meirril

03-08-2010, 11:36 PM

<cite>Mirander@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Maergoth wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think maybe you're misunderstanding what I'm saying, or just reiterating agreement. That line says nothing more than the fact that we lost teleportation 200 years ago.</blockquote>So you agree with me that it states that Teleportation was cut off 200 years ago, which effectively messes up the entire Tome of Destiny timeline once you factor in the War of the Fay, 2nd Rallosian War, Rending, and Shattering into the mix? There's in-game references that the Rending itself lasted 300 years, took place after the 2nd Rallosian War, which itself took place after teleportation was cut off from Luclin and long before Felwithe turned themselves into a xenophobic race who don't offer thier help to any outsiders.</blockquote>I'm not really sure where you got the 300 year number for the Rending, but Teleportation being cut off 200 years ago isn't a revelation. It was mentioned in the Tome of Destiny, in the 'Attack on the Nexus' chapter.</blockquote>That doesn't place teleporation being cut off 200 years ago, it places teleportation being cut off before the rending. Closer to 500 years ago than 300. When the Euradites started this whole process of building the spires had to be before the rending because they could travel to Antonica to build the Ulterian Spire Network which didn't begin work until teleporation from other means was lost.

Maergoth

03-08-2010, 11:55 PM

<cite>Meirril wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Maergoth wrote:</cite><blockquote>boring crap</blockquote>Interesting. Do you happen to know when this was introduced into EQ1 Lore? Do you happen to know if anything similar is in EQ2? Or for that matter, why was it included in EQ1 Lore?I'm going to say time split and retcon until given firm reasons to believe otherwise.</blockquote>Basically.. it was an EQ1 live event that happened over 9000 years ago. I wasn't around to witness it, but in-game books were handed out upon completion.

Lodrelhai

03-09-2010, 12:02 AM

I'm curious where the "Odus cut off from sea travel before developing the Ulteran network" info came from. <a href="http://www.lorelibrary.com/?page=book&bid=455&ss=Assistant" target="_blank">The Assistant's notes, volume 3</a> states specifically that they DID have sea travel. Also, there is a kerra in Freeport who talks about her ancestors digging their way into what was most likely the Farisian Nexus, seeing some great spell shroud Odus in a cloud and silence, and then the Erudites emerging changed. I would guess what they witnessed was not the Great Feedback, if it's the feedback that pulled both Odus and Kerra Isle into Ultera, and obviously one or more witnesses of the spell was able to leave Kerra and tell others about it.

Maergoth

03-09-2010, 01:41 AM

In "The Fall of Erudin" play part of the Stonebrunt timeline, El`Arad justifies disbanding the Erudin guard with the lack of ability for invaders to cross the sea. He then re-assigns them to work on the new spires, which are obviously required opperational before teleportation would be established.

Cusashorn

03-09-2010, 01:49 AM

<cite>Mirander@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite>I'm not really sure where you got the 300 year number for the Rending, but Teleportation being cut off 200 years ago isn't a revelation. It was mentioned in the Tome of Destiny, in the 'Attack on the Nexus' chapter.</blockquote>The Tome of Destiny takes place in a chronological order. The Attack on the Nexus happened early on.I remember reading it from a book in game. I don't remember what it was, but I'm absolutely certain I remember reading that the Rending lasted for about 3 centuries on and off. Even if it hadn't, this still means that the War of the Fay, The 2nd Rallosian War, The Rending, and of course the Shattering would have all happened in the last 200 years and not the last 500."The End of the Rending" and "Collapse" books confirms that it took place after the 2nd Rallosian War at any rate, since it mentions the rebuilding of Qeynos and Rivervale after the war. In Rivervale's case, before the piles of corpses of all the goblins and orcs that the Avatar of Flame had lead through Rivervale had even been completed burned off.In fact, "Collapse" is a story of an elderly Halfling who mentions that she was in the prime of her youth when the war started.

Mirander_1

03-09-2010, 02:19 AM

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Mirander@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite>I'm not really sure where you got the 300 year number for the Rending, but Teleportation being cut off 200 years ago isn't a revelation. It was mentioned in the Tome of Destiny, in the 'Attack on the Nexus' chapter.</blockquote>The Tome of Destiny takes place in a chronological order. The Attack on the Nexus happened early on.</blockquote>My point was that the 'Attack on the Nexus' stated that it occurred on the eighth centennial of Erud. Erud lived in the time of EQOA, which takes place a thousand years before EQ2. So, the attack happens around 200 years before EQ2.

Cusashorn

03-09-2010, 03:34 AM

I refuse to accept that. This is me talking, but I'm not going to accept this from anyone besides *THE* developer who made this decision, and I want to hear a detailed explanation behind it.

Garnaf

03-10-2010, 04:19 PM

Teleportation was cut off BEFORE (or just as) the gods withdrew from Norrath, over 500 years ago. The 2nd Rallosian army hadn't even been created yet. That's part of why the Rallosian army had so much success, there wasn't an easy way for messages to be passed between the cities. The Rending occured AFTER the Rallosian army had been defeated, and the Shattering was after even that.

Majiere

03-12-2010, 02:04 AM

<cite>Maergoth wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Meirril wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Maergoth wrote:</cite><blockquote>boring crap</blockquote>Interesting. Do you happen to know when this was introduced into EQ1 Lore? Do you happen to know if anything similar is in EQ2? Or for that matter, why was it included in EQ1 Lore?I'm going to say time split and retcon until given firm reasons to believe otherwise.</blockquote>Basically.. it was an EQ1 live event that happened over 9000 years ago. I wasn't around to witness it, but in-game books were handed out upon completion.</blockquote>It was a live event that lead upto the release of Shadows of Luclin. It was also around the time that Wizards got the spell: Teleport. So basicly, yes it is lore and it was part of the timeline before the split.I don't remember much about the event tho I do believe that some info still remains about it.Edit: Found the offical lore here - <a href="http://fossworld.ath.cx/lore/luclin_journal.htm" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://fossworld.ath.cx/lore/luclin_journal.htm</a>

Meirril

03-12-2010, 10:53 AM

<cite>Maergoth wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Meirril wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Maergoth wrote:</cite><blockquote>boring crap</blockquote>Interesting. Do you happen to know when this was introduced into EQ1 Lore? Do you happen to know if anything similar is in EQ2? Or for that matter, why was it included in EQ1 Lore?I'm going to say time split and retcon until given firm reasons to believe otherwise.</blockquote>Basically.. it was an EQ1 live event that happened over 9000 years ago. I wasn't around to witness it, but in-game books were handed out upon completion.</blockquote>Funny, I didn't know computers existed before the chineese did. In Earth time how long ago? Anything introduced into EQ1 after PoP expansion is safely ignored in EQ2's Lore.

Meirril

03-12-2010, 11:22 AM

<cite>Majiere@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Maergoth wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Meirril wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Maergoth wrote:</cite><blockquote>boring crap</blockquote>Interesting. Do you happen to know when this was introduced into EQ1 Lore? Do you happen to know if anything similar is in EQ2? Or for that matter, why was it included in EQ1 Lore?I'm going to say time split and retcon until given firm reasons to believe otherwise.</blockquote>Basically.. it was an EQ1 live event that happened over 9000 years ago. I wasn't around to witness it, but in-game books were handed out upon completion.</blockquote>It was a live event that lead upto the release of Shadows of Luclin. It was also around the time that Wizards got the spell: Teleport. So basicly, yes it is lore and it was part of the timeline before the split.I don't remember much about the event tho I do believe that some info still remains about it.Edit: Found the offical lore here - <a rel="nofollow" href="http://fossworld.ath.cx/lore/luclin_journal.htm" target="_blank">http://fossworld.ath.cx/lore/luclin_journal.htm</a></blockquote>Ok, now that places things in perspective. Hmm...pre-combine spires. Interesting. Interesting indeed.

Majiere

03-12-2010, 05:55 PM

Only ones I can think of who might have built the orginal spires would be the elddar elves, the early rallosians or the shissir but I would place my bet on the shissir.

Cusashorn

03-12-2010, 06:52 PM

It's been implied through Al'Kabor's journal that the Shissar built them (but the Combine built the pyramids to act as stabilizers,) but there's no evidence of any sort to confirm it.

Homeskillet

03-23-2010, 10:08 AM

I thought it was pretty much known that the "Combine" Spires, were actually a construction of the Shissar Empire preceding them. I may be mistaken but I remember reading somewhere that ironically Ssraeshza, knowing of the impending doom of the Greenmist, performed the Shissar exodus to Luclin at the Dreadlands Spires, just as the Combine later did when the Loyalists left Norrath. The Nexus itself already existed when the Loyalists arrived. What is never clarified to my knowledge though is if the Spire construct around the black sphere housed in the Nexus was there when they arrived or was constructed to mirror the spires on Norrath during the building of Fordel Mist.

Cusashorn

03-23-2010, 11:31 AM

^ It's never been outright confirmed that the Shissar built the spires. Heavily implied to the point that there's no point in trying to prove they weren't, but not confirmed.

Foolsfolly

03-23-2010, 09:52 PM

It's a bit difficult to piece together the two origin stories of Bertoxxulous, but let me take a swing at it...Long ago, on a planet called Prime, there lived two brilliant rival doctors named Dr. Rodger Effin and Dr. Bartholomew Oculus. Rodger developed a miracle medicine that could cure any ailment, which he called Panacea.This overwhelming success made Bartholomew look bad by comparison, so Bartholomew worked long and hard to create his own miraculous medicine. He intended to create a gas that could perpetuate itself, spreading out forever, which would repair damage even as it happened! This gas would not only cure diseases before people even realized they were sick, but also heal injuries as they happened so they people would never die.Bartholomew had nearly perfected the formula, when he accidently spilled a vial of corrosive acid into the mix. The resulting noxious gas enveloped Bartholomew, melting away his flesh while simultaneously repairing it, leaving him in a constant state of decay.Bartholomew stumbled out into the streets, where his people recoiled in fear at the grotesque sight. They tried to ask who he was, and what he wanted, but when his decaying mouth tried to utter his name, all that came out was "Berrrttt Oxxx...", and thus Bartholomew Oculus came to be known as Bertox. The peoples of Prime soon realized that anything Bertox came near would be contaminated by the green mist that enveloped his putrid body, and out of fear they decided to simply shove him on a spaceship and banish him from their homeworld.Bertox set out across the universe searching for a people who would accept him in his current state, and soon he came upon a planet called Norrath. Norrath was at this time dominated by a race called the Xulous, who delighted in using the flesh and bones of lesser creatures for just about everything. Bertox had his ship drop him off in the largest of their buildings, which happened to be a crypt housing the corpses of their late rulers.Bertox soon discovered that his green mist had the ability to reanimate these dead kings, just as easily as it could spread among the living, turning both into eternally decaying creatures of the plague. The Xulous delighted at this, since they already had a fanatical obsession with death and decay. They proclaimed him their leader, Bertox`Xulous, and set about spreading his green mist across their civilization.Soon Bertoxxulous realized that he maintained a connection with all things touched by the green mist, and each infected soul increased both his knowledge and power. By the end, Bertoxxulous's mental capacities had expanded so much that he was able to ascend to godhood. He quickly searched through the cosmos for a suitable shard of reality, which he then claimed for his own. He transported his necropolis and his Xulous people to his Plane of Disease, and quickly set about dispatching his Xulous minions to distant realms for the purpose of spreading his green mist to further increase his power and influence.Word of this new plague soon reached Rodger, who quickly obtained a sample of the green mist and contrived an antidote. Rodger then set out across the cosmos, tracking down the Xulous wherever they had landed and dispatching them, then curing those they had infected.Rodger cured many, but still the plague spread faster than he could keep up. Desperate for a way to stop the greenmist, Rodger began experimenting with ways to combine the properties of the greenmist with his panacea, hoping to create a mist which would vaccinate people against the greenmist. But when he tested the vaccine on himself, he ended up creating his own link to those infected by the greenmist, giving him the knowledge and power needed to ascend to godhood just as Bertoxxulous had done before him.Still, the healer from Prime fights against the greenmist to this day, even knowing that it's destruction will eventually cost him his godhood.Of course I realize that much of this little story is completely made up; I'm just trying to show that the two differing stories of Bertoxxulous could both be true.Back on the subject of the void, the part that interests me the most is that Remembrance Prime states that the obelisks formed on Prime several years before their people became obsessed with them. This makes me think that the obelisks were likely built by another race, likely the Shadow Men, who would have then possessed and influenced the Raeth, making them just another in the series of victims. It would also seem likely that these obelisks acted as anchors, forming a link which allowed the Raeth to migrate to the void, which would contradict the theory that their species was banished for some great crime. This makes me wonder exactly what the relationship is between the Shadow Men, The Void, and Roehn Theer?

GlitterPaws

03-23-2010, 10:02 PM

BLINDING wall of text. If you edit in a few paragraphs I'd read it ))thanks

Meirril

03-24-2010, 07:11 AM

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>^ It's never been outright confirmed that the Shissar built the spires. Heavily implied to the point that there's no point in trying to prove they weren't, but not confirmed.</blockquote>The only other possability would be if one of the gods built the spires. Like say Luclin. Hmm...or possibly some of her followers who could of actually build the Nexus first, and then the spires on Norrath which is a more logical order than the other way around or the Nexus simply being a "natural" occurance.

KniteShayd

03-24-2010, 08:06 AM

<cite>Meirril wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>^ It's never been outright confirmed that the Shissar built the spires. Heavily implied to the point that there's no point in trying to prove they weren't, but not confirmed.</blockquote>The only other possability would be if one of the gods built the spires. Like say Luclin. Hmm...or possibly some of her followers who could of actually build the Nexus first, and then the spires on Norrath which is a more logical order than the other way around or the Nexus simply being a "natural" occurance. </blockquote>Luclin never took part in matters of Norrath. The only actions she ever took were taking races that were about to go extinct, and preserving them on the Moon as her own personal menagerie. She was a watcher, and very neutral in the affairs of the gods. So neutral she was happy to not be involved with them.I doubt any followers of Luclin would have any involvement with the spires. If anything, I would theorize her followers would act more like the Peacock Club, but only observe and record; rarely taking any action for anything, if ever. That's probably why we don't see any Luclinites, they hide and just watch everything. And maybe preserve things for the sake of preservation.

Garnaf

03-25-2010, 05:45 AM

<cite>Euri@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Meirril wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>^ It's never been outright confirmed that the Shissar built the spires. Heavily implied to the point that there's no point in trying to prove they weren't, but not confirmed.</blockquote>The only other possability would be if one of the gods built the spires. Like say Luclin. Hmm...or possibly some of her followers who could of actually build the Nexus first, and then the spires on Norrath which is a more logical order than the other way around or the Nexus simply being a "natural" occurance. </blockquote>Luclin never took part in matters of Norrath. The only actions she ever took were taking races that were about to go extinct, and preserving them on the Moon as her own personal menagerie. She was a watcher, and very neutral in the affairs of the gods. So neutral she was happy to not be involved with them.I doubt any followers of Luclin would have any involvement with the spires. If anything, I would theorize her followers would act more like the Peacock Club, but only observe and record; rarely taking any action for anything, if ever. That's probably why we don't see any Luclinites, they hide and just watch everything. And maybe preserve things for the sake of preservation.</blockquote>I always thought it was less that Luclin was "Neutral" and more that she was "Secretive" being the Goddess of Shadows. She placed a veil over the moon so that none could see what she was up to, she created her own race (the Akhevan) that believed they were only "pure" by staying away from anything other than eachother (to the point where a HOLY WAR started when one group learned the Common Tongue).I'm not sure where the various Tegi races came from, but it's fairly clear to me that the Akhevan were evil (they tainted Tegi into Shak Dratha and Centi, and corrupted Khati Sha, one of the greatest of the Vah Shir, into Takhashi, who in turn created the Grimlings, and are just generally not plesant). It wouldn't surprise me to learn that Luclin had some kind of malevolent plan originally, especially given the (albeit minor) evidence that Luclin regularly SPOKE to Aten Ha Ra, the akheva high priestess. (it WOULD surprise me to learn the plan hasn't been set back rather heavily or outright stopped, what with her claimed world being destroyed and all.)

Homeskillet

03-25-2010, 11:18 AM

Luclin is Shar from Forgotten Realms, more or less, easy rip off of that.As for the above wall of text, it completely ignores the curve ball of how Bertoxulous apparently succeeded Xul'varien as the God of Disease.

Meirril

03-26-2010, 04:57 AM

<cite>Euri@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Meirril wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>^ It's never been outright confirmed that the Shissar built the spires. Heavily implied to the point that there's no point in trying to prove they weren't, but not confirmed.</blockquote>The only other possability would be if one of the gods built the spires. Like say Luclin. Hmm...or possibly some of her followers who could of actually build the Nexus first, and then the spires on Norrath which is a more logical order than the other way around or the Nexus simply being a "natural" occurance. </blockquote>Luclin never took part in matters of Norrath. The only actions she ever took were taking races that were about to go extinct, and preserving them on the Moon as her own personal menagerie. She was a watcher, and very neutral in the affairs of the gods. So neutral she was happy to not be involved with them.I doubt any followers of Luclin would have any involvement with the spires. If anything, I would theorize her followers would act more like the Peacock Club, but only observe and record; rarely taking any action for anything, if ever. That's probably why we don't see any Luclinites, they hide and just watch everything. And maybe preserve things for the sake of preservation.</blockquote>Luclin took interest in the Vah Shir, and Shar Val was brought safely to Luclin. Luclin took interest in the Shissar, and they were allowed to teleport to the surface of Luclin. Luclin took interest in the Combine Empire, and Luclin just "happens" to be close enough to allow them to transport to Luclin, and then it immediately afterward goes out of range once Seru's forces follow. Greig is driven to madness to prevent him from finding an alternative means to teleport back to Norrath and guardians are set over the remains of his work to prevent others from continuing it.Luclin didn't want other gods meddling in her affairs. That is why she chose to occupy and hide her moon. There is a reason she allowed adventurers onto Luclin. Why...I can't be certain. It seems to be causing the destruction of everything she's worked to create but that could actually be her goal. I certainly can't believe that she welcomed the invasion of the nexus by another dietie's forces.She has no worshipers on Norrath because she doesn't want them. That would bring her into conflict with other dieties which would distract her from her own plans. She created plenty of immortal followers on Luclin. Those followers were extremely xenophobic and took very little interest in the other groups Luclin brought to Luclin for her amusement. And as was pointed out, they had a terrible civil war over learning the common language and the winners were the bigger group of xenophobes.But Luclin does show an interest in Norrath as she has taken samples here and there. She's also allowed the formation of the Nexus on Luclin which shouldn't be possible if it was against her will. So...why does teleportation start here? How does this make sense unless Luclin wanted to have control over the main center of teleportation? Or maybe one of the races on Luclin wanted the ability to teleport to Norrath? Possibly to escape Luclin?

Homeskillet

03-26-2010, 09:43 AM

<cite>Meirril wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Euri@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Meirril wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>^ It's never been outright confirmed that the Shissar built the spires. Heavily implied to the point that there's no point in trying to prove they weren't, but not confirmed.</blockquote>The only other possability would be if one of the gods built the spires. Like say Luclin. Hmm...or possibly some of her followers who could of actually build the Nexus first, and then the spires on Norrath which is a more logical order than the other way around or the Nexus simply being a "natural" occurance. </blockquote>Luclin never took part in matters of Norrath. The only actions she ever took were taking races that were about to go extinct, and preserving them on the Moon as her own personal menagerie. She was a watcher, and very neutral in the affairs of the gods. So neutral she was happy to not be involved with them.I doubt any followers of Luclin would have any involvement with the spires. If anything, I would theorize her followers would act more like the Peacock Club, but only observe and record; rarely taking any action for anything, if ever. That's probably why we don't see any Luclinites, they hide and just watch everything. And maybe preserve things for the sake of preservation.</blockquote>Luclin took interest in the Vah Shir, and Shar Val was brought safely to Luclin. Luclin took interest in the Shissar, and they were allowed to teleport to the surface of Luclin. Luclin took interest in the Combine Empire, and Luclin just "happens" to be close enough to allow them to transport to Luclin, and then it immediately afterward goes out of range once Seru's forces follow. Greig is driven to madness to prevent him from finding an alternative means to teleport back to Norrath and guardians are set over the remains of his work to prevent others from continuing it.Luclin didn't want other gods meddling in her affairs. That is why she chose to occupy and hide her moon. There is a reason she allowed adventurers onto Luclin. Why...I can't be certain. It seems to be causing the destruction of everything she's worked to create but that could actually be her goal. I certainly can't believe that she welcomed the invasion of the nexus by another dietie's forces.She has no worshipers on Norrath because she doesn't want them. That would bring her into conflict with other dieties which would distract her from her own plans. She created plenty of immortal followers on Luclin. Those followers were extremely xenophobic and took very little interest in the other groups Luclin brought to Luclin for her amusement. And as was pointed out, they had a terrible civil war over learning the common language and the winners were the bigger group of xenophobes.But Luclin does show an interest in Norrath as she has taken samples here and there. She's also allowed the formation of the Nexus on Luclin which shouldn't be possible if it was against her will. So...why does teleportation start here? How does this make sense unless Luclin wanted to have control over the main center of teleportation? Or maybe one of the races on Luclin wanted the ability to teleport to Norrath? Possibly to escape Luclin?</blockquote>The above falls apart preceisely at the last point in the first paragraph; Grieg. Grieg was driven to madness not because he may find a way to teleport back to Norrath...but that he may find a way to facilitate more foreigners to arrive on Luclin. The normal lunar cycle of Luclin was such that it became visible at certain points of time in a regular cycle. The Dreadlands spires were built in a location where the moon passed directly over during one of it's visible periods, much like how the three major pyramids in Egypt line up directly under the three stars of Orion's belt, they were "born" and "died" in a cycle passing over those structures. Lycia Katta chose that time of visibility to enact the teleportation ritual to Luclin, but it was no spur of the moment action that was taken after Tsaph Katta was poisoned by Seru, there was a span of time where they planned how to do it. Why would they choose Luclin over say...Drinal? When Luclin was visible and close enough you could actually see the lakes that dotted the landscape here and there. Lycia Katta chose the moon for that reason, seeing it as a location where they could feasibly rebuild. There was also in fact a substantial gap in time between when the Combine Loyalists arrived in what was to be called the Nexus, and when the Seru Inquisition followed. By the time the latter arrived, Fordel Mist was already fairly established and some even chose to stay there while Seru and the rest of his followers established what would come to be Sanctus Seru.The Shissar exodus had nothing to do with Luclin either. Ssraeshza was a consummate opportunist, who had immense power including the ability of foresight. Bear in mind this was a race that had become so powerful they no longer felt they had to follow or honor Cazic Thule or any god. They purportedly gallivanted around the planes themselves and even destroyed deities. Ssraeshza new that Cazic Thule would choose to unleash something upon his people in response to their hubris and planned accordingly. Thus he brought those most loyal to him, a cadre of iksar slaves and supplies after planning their escape to the moon. Knowing the nature of the Green Mist (an entity that we know to be APART from Cazic Thule, though often used by him the most), they then transformed a part of the Scarlet Desert on Luclin into an airless vacuum to circumvent any airborne calamities being unleashed on them again. This all happened easily without the intervention of Luclin herself. If anything, she would have had reason to hate and fear the Shissar considering their propensity to gather power and defile planar realms.The Vah'Shir were not chosen by Luclin either, Vah Kerrath and the Vah Shir tribe of kerra were enacting their own ritual based on what he prophecized was a necessary journey elsewhere when the Erudites were mucking about with each other in a civil war. Two distinct magical energies collided and boom, transported to Luclin in what was honestly a freak accident. They happened to be performing their rituals for the Shifting under the moon and so thats where they ended up. Shar Vahl by the way was not transported, it was constructed out of the rich Acrylia deposits that the Vah Shir discovered in the area they had arrived in. In the end the moon of Luclin is holy ground for her, the Akheva honor that as such. Their own civil war erupted over one group of Akheva daring to learn the Common tongue of the settlers from Norrath, they are that utterly fanatical. The whole theory of her preserving "races about to go extinct" is unfounded, as the Combine were not a race, but a collaborative of races, and the Vah Shir were only a noble tribe of Kerra. The Akheva were Luclin's own creation, a fully sentient and immortal race of beings that had their own empire, that only saw strife once newcomers came to Luclin. The other creatures on Luclin were very primal at best, the Tegi, the Elysians, were products of the elemental and spiritual planes. The Nexus as it came to be known was only discovered by the Combine, the second group to arrive on Luclin when comparing between the Shissar, Combine and Vah Shir. At this point it is only confirmed that it was a cave with a large black orb which the Combine determined must have been what drew them to a underground location and not the surface as they had planned. It is unknown whether the spire construction upon that orb was already there (ie constructed by the Shissar) or if it was constructed by the geomancer Grieg in the same fashion which they had built constructs to mirror the already existing spires on Norrath. Luclin wanted nothing to do with Norrath, the moon was her private playground and it seemed to be intruded upon again and again much to her dislike.

Cusashorn

03-26-2010, 09:54 AM

<cite>Meirril wrote:</cite><blockquote>Luclin took interest in the Vah Shir, and Shar Val was brought safely to Luclin.They were blown to the moon by a Laser weapon from the War of Heretics. Luclin had nothing to do with it.Luclin took interest in the Shissar, and they were allowed to teleport to the surface of Luclin.There's no evidence of any sort to prove that. We don't know how they discovered Luclin, when they decided to teleport up (obviously before it was too late), or how long they had been planning it.Luclin took interest in the Combine Empire,Luclin becomes visible once a month, and it was the Lcea Katta who decided to move the empire there.and Luclin just "happens" to be close enough to allow them to transport to Luclin, and then it immediately afterward goes out of range once Seru's forces follow.The Combine Empire was the height of technological and magical advancement in Norrath. After the last of them left, that knowledge had been lost to Norrath. Luclin was never "out of range". We just didn't know what happened to the empire. They just disappeared off the face of history.Greig is driven to madness to prevent him from finding an alternative means to teleport back to Norrath and guardians are set over the remains of his work to prevent others from continuing it.*THIS* is the *ONLY* part where we know that Luclin has influenced anyone outside of the Akheva. She drove him mad with her visions.Luclin didn't want other gods meddling in her affairs. That is why she chose to occupy and hide her moon. There is a reason she allowed adventurers onto Luclin. Why...I can't be certain.We were bound to find our way up there sooner or later. It was only natural and inevitable. Nothing she could ever do about it... Not that she would.It seems to be causing the destruction of everything she's worked to create but that could actually be her goal. I certainly can't believe that she welcomed the invasion of the nexus by another dietie's forces.Just as Luclin didn't want other gods meddling in her affairs, the reverse is true too. She didn't want to involve herself with them. Thus, she took no action, because it is her nature to stay hidden.She has no worshipers on Norrath because she doesn't want them.More than likely nobody on Norrath ever knew about her.That would bring her into conflict with other dieties which would distract her from her own plans. She created plenty of immortal followers on Luclin. Those followers were extremely xenophobic and took very little interest in the other groups Luclin brought to Luclin for her amusement. And as was pointed out, they had a terrible civil war over learning the common language and the winners were the bigger group of xenophobes.But Luclin does show an interest in Norrath as she has taken samples here and there.Again, not really.She's also allowed the formation of the Nexus on Luclin which shouldn't be possible if it was against her will.We don't know *HOW* the Nexus came to be. It's implied the Combine Empire or Shissar Empire built it, but there's no evidence saying either of them actually did. The story of how they got up there almost seems to imply that it was already there. So...why does teleportation start here? How does this make sense unless Luclin wanted to have control over the main center of teleportation? Or maybe one of the races on Luclin wanted the ability to teleport to Norrath? Possibly to escape Luclin?Or she's just doing as she's always done (except for Akheva and Grieg) and doing absolutely nothing. Maybe she didn't care if her moon was blown up. Taking any sort of concern or action would go directly against everything that she is by implying that she could exist to outsiders.</blockquote>

Homeskillet

03-26-2010, 10:03 AM

HOLY CRAP NOTE: Persuing some lore stuff I think SoE inadvertently ruled out the Combine COMPLETELY and possibly the Shissar from constructing the spires on Norrath, all based on this from The Fall of Erudin: Volume 2"When the Grand Farisan Nexus was activated a critical error was revealed. El'Arad and his fellow researchers based their construction of the Nexus off what was known of the Luclin Nexus and the spires in the Toxxulia Forest. Unbeknownst to El'Arad the spires were originally designed to channel their energy through the Nexus in Luclin. When the new Ulteran Spires were activated, they attempted to touch the original Nexus, and the mystical barriers erected by Norrathian pantheon caused the energy of the New Nexus to feed back upon itself."This means possibly a couple things. First, it was not just a black orb that was there and drew them into that cavern but a full spire construction, thus ruling out the Combine from constructing the spires in that cave. The only spires built on Luclin by them would be the smaller ones within Fordel Mist and the ones Grieg constructed in his experiments trying to return to Norrath located in Mons Letalis I believe. The reason being that the Combine themselves borrowed and built upon the existing spire network. They had no presence on Luclin until they teleported there thus if the spire network was designed to work with the Luclin Nexus, that means that they had no hand in it. It was already built before they got there. The only Norrathian group to exist on Luclin well before the Combine were the Shissar. This means a couple of things, the Nexus was already constructed based off when the Shissar originally built the Spire network and were already able to travel to Luclin, or Ssraeshza somehow altered the existing spire network on Norrath to tie into a point on Luclin in order to facilitate the escape of him and his followers, and thus altered the function of the spire network from that point onward. The other possibility created by this is that neither the Shissar nor the Combine had #$%-all to do with the spire network, and it was built by some OTHER global spanning empire that was magically advanced enough to create a world and moon spanning teleportation network.So this means the Combine are completely ruled out, or SoE made a boo-boo in the realm of consistency.PS Cusa, the Vah Shir were not blown to the moon by a laser weapon. There was an active conflict between the Erudites of Erudin and Paineel right outside the gates of their settlement. Vah Kerrath was performing a ritual with the Vah Shir kerra based off a prophecy he claimed to have had that his people needed to flee.PSS Cusaconjecture.

Cusashorn

03-26-2010, 11:16 AM

According to the Story of Miragul from the original player's guide back when EQ first started, it claimed the Hole was created when the Erudites used a superweapon called a "Laser" to blow Paineel off the face of the earth. A miscalculation lead to the Vah Shir being teleported to Luclin, and the devastation the weapon did caused both sides to cease thier fighting and realized they had gone too far on both sides of the conflict.

Homeskillet

03-26-2010, 11:19 AM

The History of the Vah Shir Volume IIIThe Furless Ones On the lands of the vanished Shahar, a new civilization emerged unnoticed. They were the furless ones who had come from the sea. They had built their homes of large white stones in the lands of the golden mist. They could call forth spirits of fire and of earth, beings of water and air stood as warriors by their side. They did not speak to the beasts as the Kerran would but could bend them to their will. They were at war with the furless ones who spoke to the dead. Kejaan heard the anguish of the spirits of the dead and went to speak with the furless ones who spoke to them. He asked them to lay down their magic for it had harmed the ancient spirits. Many days passed and Kejaan returned sickly and pale. They would not listen to his words and the aching of the spirits burned his very heart. Kejaan returned to the mist and his son Vah stepped forth as the king. The Shifting Vah gathered his strongest, the nobles, the Shir. He sent the weaker ones away from the kingdom and back to the wild. Vah called to the Shir and proclaimed this was the prophecy, but none understood. Vah called to the spirits in the unknown tongue. None could move, the time of the shifting was at hand. The spirits wailed around the city of the Shir. The furless ones that disturbed the dead gathered at the gates, pursued by the furless ones who commanded fire, earth, air, and water. A great mist enveloped the city of the Shir and Vah cried to the spirits as loud as his voice permitted. When the shifting had ended, they found themselves in the darkened lands. The land and the air had changed and the voices of the spirits could not speak their tongue. Vah cried out to the Shir "Hear me and know that I am your kin, my blood is of yours and you are my people." He pulled forth the fang of Partha and spoke the truth of Ratha's death. With the fang he spilled his blood upon the ground so that all could smell that he was kin. When it was learned that Vah was a true Shir, they took his name as their own and honored him for finding their land. The prophecy had unfolded and they were united as one on the farthest of lands under the leadership of Vah. Filled with pride that they were indeed the chosen ones, the Shir called out the name of Vah to the darkness as a challenge to all who would stand in the way of their destiny.

Eriol

03-27-2010, 02:11 AM

<cite>Homeskillet wrote:</cite><blockquote>This means possibly a couple things. First, it was not just a black orb that was there and drew them into that cavern but a full spire construction, thus ruling out the Combine from constructing the spires in that cave.</blockquote>Spires are not necessarily necessary for it to be "The Nexus." "The Nexus" could easily be JUST the black orb itself, and the rest of the "spire architecture" built around it later. That's certainly what is suggested in the original luclin book lore.

Homeskillet

03-27-2010, 05:14 AM

<cite>Eriol wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Homeskillet wrote:</cite><blockquote>This means possibly a couple things. First, it was not just a black orb that was there and drew them into that cavern but a full spire construction, thus ruling out the Combine from constructing the spires in that cave.</blockquote>Spires are not necessarily necessary for it to be "The Nexus." "The Nexus" could easily be JUST the black orb itself, and the rest of the "spire architecture" built around it later. That's certainly what is suggested in the original luclin book lore.</blockquote>In which my point still holds true, the Combine are still ruled out of having had any hand in constructing the spires as they had no clue what-so-ever why they were in that cave when they arrived. I am sadly thinking this more to be inconsistency on the part of the lore writers due to the fact that it is clearly a spire network, such that each point in the network infrastructure would require the construction of spires (else it is a huge effort to go to for looks). If the spire network was constructed with the Nexus acting as a core piece of the topology, then again, the Combine had to have had nothing to do with it.

Rainmare

03-27-2010, 08:22 AM

the Spires were not there when the loyalists went to luclin. if I remember right it's stated they ended up in a cavern system with a huge black sphere in the center. they built what we consider the 'Nexus' around it, and Fordel Mist, as a means to study/research the Nexus in an effort to get back home.Odds are yes, the Shissar or the Rallosian Empire, both of which I think predate the Combine, are probably the architects of the Quadroliths. Both these empires knew about teleportation/translocation and both of them are known for invading the Planes. supposedly the Shissar invaded Fear at one point...though for the life of me I can't remember where I read that.and we all know what happened with the Rallosian Empire and thier invasions into the plane of earth. my bet actually, is on the Rallosians being the orginal builders. the wide placement, combined with the very little knowledge fo the Shissar outside of Kunark, makes me think the Rallosians built them for transport purposes for thier endless wars to conquer all Norrath in Rallos' name.

Trevalon

03-27-2010, 10:03 AM

I think it was the Spaceship in Qeynos that built em personally, but I could possibly be reaching?

Cusashorn

03-27-2010, 11:26 AM

The flying saucer in Qeynos is Rodcet Nife's.

Trevalon

03-27-2010, 02:51 PM

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>The flying saucer in Qeynos is Rodcet Nife's.</blockquote>Sorry, My sarcasm must have been lost...Ya know the whole pyramid flyin...I give up...sigh <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" />

Foolsfolly

03-27-2010, 06:48 PM

I believe the Temple of Life is merely an arcane structure modeled after Rodcet Nife's ship. Not actual alien technology.

Cusashorn

03-27-2010, 08:09 PM

<cite>Foolsfolly wrote:</cite><blockquote>I believe the Temple of Life is merely an arcane structure modeled after Rodcet Nife's ship. Not actual alien technology.</blockquote>The flying saucer first arrived at Qeynos when Rodcet Nife graced them with his presence. It's still the very same one from EQlive. His and it's explanation had never been given though.Back during the Plague event in 2001, I once spoke with a player who played during the Beta of Everquest itself. He said that one day, the flying saucer really did fly over Qeynos before it settled down where it did. It was the Developers throwing a GM event to mark it's arrival and install the Temple of Life NPCs and such.I've never encountered any other beta testers so there's no way I can match stories that anyone else had ever heard or seen the same event. He wasn't the type of player who would lie or make up such a story though, so I believe him.

Eriol

03-27-2010, 09:04 PM

<cite>Homeskillet wrote:</cite><blockquote>In which my point still holds true, the Combine are still ruled out of having had any hand in constructing the spires as they had no clue what-so-ever why they were in that cave when they arrived. I am sadly thinking this more to be inconsistency on the part of the lore writers due to the fact that it is clearly a spire network, such that each point in the network infrastructure would require the construction of spires (else it is a huge effort to go to for looks). If the spire network was constructed with the Nexus acting as a core piece of the topology, then again, the Combine had to have had nothing to do with it.</blockquote>Not necessarily. Just because they weren't the original creators of spires doesn't mean they didn't learn how later. Just look at Grieg and how he constructed spires. It's totally reasonable to assume those on Luclin made the spires around the black orb of the nexus itself. Because even with the story of Al'kabor, while the Combine may not have made most of the spires (or even any of them) on Norrath, that doesn't mean they didn't understand them. They understood them enough to modify them (pyramids) so who's to say intense study of the Nexus itself didn't lead to breakthroughs in Fordel Midst?It's either "all the spires were there when the Combine got to Luclin" which requires you to say the account of their arrival was beyond incomplete (the black orb imposing over them, etc), or that they built them. I choose the latter.

Meirril

03-28-2010, 06:50 AM

<cite>Rainmare@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote>the Spires were not there when the loyalists went to luclin. if I remember right it's stated they ended up in a cavern system with a huge black sphere in the center. they built what we consider the 'Nexus' around it, and Fordel Mist, as a means to study/research the Nexus in an effort to get back home.Odds are yes, the Shissar or the Rallosian Empire, both of which I think predate the Combine, are probably the architects of the Quadroliths. Both these empires knew about teleportation/translocation and both of them are known for invading the Planes. supposedly the Shissar invaded Fear at one point...though for the life of me I can't remember where I read that.and we all know what happened with the Rallosian Empire and thier invasions into the plane of earth. my bet actually, is on the Rallosians being the orginal builders. the wide placement, combined with the very little knowledge fo the Shissar outside of Kunark, makes me think the Rallosians built them for transport purposes for thier endless wars to conquer all Norrath in Rallos' name.</blockquote>You have to rule out both the Shissar and the Rallosians from creating the spires/nexus. If the Shissar possessed the full knowledge of the teleportation network they would of used that and had elven slaves. We have no proof that they existed on Norrath anywhere other than Kunark. The Shissar did travel to other planes, where they obtained the runes they used to build their calendar.The Rallosians likewise didn't have access to a teleportation network. Every story about them involves them marching everywhere. The fleeing reminents of the origional Rallosian Army fled by ship to Velious and avoided the worse of the Rathe curse. Thus the giants of velious retained their intelligence. The rest of the giants and all the ogres were not so lucky. If they had access to a teleportation network, they would of been found anywhere that a spire could be found. Very few spires have Rallosian races near them.I'm more inclined to believe a diety is responsable for the Nexus than anything else. Considering its placement Luclin seems likely but also opposed to it by her personality. Brell comes as a second possability, simply because the nexus is underground. It could also be possibly Ro due to some circumstantial evidence. Honestly, it is a mystery.

Foolsfolly

03-28-2010, 09:23 AM

<a href="http://www.lorelibrary.com/?page=website&wid=103&ss=rodcet%20nife" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lorelibrary.com/?page=we...s=rodcet%20nife</a>Eyewitness Accounts Found states that the followers of Rodcet built the temple...but I suppose that could simply be a way of saying that they set up camp within and around the ship.I thought I remembered it saying Rodcet took his ship when he left, but upon reading again I see it actually says he "vanished", which could be interpreted either way. Perhaps he actually became a god during this trip to Norrath, and as such no longer needed his ship so he just left it there?

Cusashorn

03-28-2010, 12:55 PM

<cite>Meirril wrote:</cite><blockquote>The Rallosians likewise didn't have access to a teleportation network. Every story about them involves them marching everywhere. The fleeing reminents of the origional Rallosian Army fled by ship to Velious and avoided the worse of the Rathe curse. Thus the giants of velious retained their intelligence. The rest of the giants and all the ogres were not so lucky. If they had access to a teleportation network, they would of been found anywhere that a spire could be found. Very few spires have Rallosian races near them.</blockquote>Actually, loss of intellegence wasn't part of the Giant's part of the curse. That would be total extinction.The ogres were cursed with stupidity, the orcs were cursed with not remembering their own history, and the giants were to be wiped out completely.That said, they were never intellegent enough to figure out teleportation anyway.

Homeskillet

03-29-2010, 12:29 AM

The Shissar did exist elsewhere in Norrath actually, most ancient constructs of Cazic Thule were of their making prior to their distancing themselves from their creator, ie Innothule. While the seat of their power was indeed in Kunark, they did not remain their exclusively. They very well may have had elven slaves as well, just none lived to tell of it. As for the spires, it is hard to believe that if back and forth teleportation required the construction of quadroliths upon the Nexus for the entire spire network to function, that they were only then built by the Combine when they arrived. I never said they did not ever prove capable of building them, I cited the constructs of Grieg and what he built in Mons Letalis and Fordel Mist.The big glaring issue here with regards to the original spire network is that the Combine are completely ruled out of construction by what is stated in the Sentinel's Fate lore books. The Shissar are almost ruled out as well because of the fact the Combine noted no quadroliths upon the cave they entered, and the aformentioned lore book states the Nexus was an integral part of that network, and if no quadroliths were necessary, then they would have not mirrored in construction everywhere they were seen. The layout and design was consistent, save for the much larger spires constructed in the Dreadlands. While it is quite possible the Rallosian Empire had a hand in it, it is still more likely attributed to the Shissar who were around at the same time and even helped the Rallosians at various points.So either the Combine accounts left details out, which is far fetched as they were not as unreachable as the Shissar as far as pre-EQ2 history, or the lore development right hand didn't talk to the lore development left hand.

Rainmare

03-29-2010, 06:17 AM

It could simply be this:the Nexus on Luclin acted as a central, unknown, hub of translocational power on norrath. the shissar/rallosians built the quadroliths as focal points for thier spells. as in it draws the energy to point A, to make it much easier for the magic to get you to point A from points B, C, D, or E.both empires had to know about translocation magics, because they used them obviously to get into the Planes. Especially the Rallosian empire, as there is certianly no gateway to the Plane of Earth from norrath..and the Shissar used it to jump to Luclin.The shissar ruled Kunark, the Rallosians ruled virtually all Antonica, or Tunaria as it was called then. just becuase our records always talk about them marching from place to place, doesn't mean that they only marched. it could mean that grunts marched, lower ranking platoons marched. higher officials, thier legions, messengers, could have simply been the only ones with privilages to use the quadroliths. not to mention the places we rea dof them marching too are always close by. there wasn't any thing swe see of them say marching from Qeynos hills to the commonlands. it's always a march like innothule swamp to kithcor forest. it's always like few days march.and the location of the other ones outside antonica, where most of them are can be argued as the Rallosians went to those places, found the best spots for camps/bases/fortification and built a quadrolith there. Velious is in the great divide, a realtively protected area in the creavase. Faydwer is in the Greater Faydark, and might even be how the Crushbone orcs got there in the first place. Kunark is up in the mountains of the dreadlands, the highground for what could be percieved as the border to the shissar empire or definately a defendable position in enemy territory.

Homeskillet

03-29-2010, 07:04 AM

<cite>Rainmare@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote>It could simply be this:the Nexus on Luclin acted as a central, unknown, hub of translocational power on norrath.</blockquote>"Unbeknownst to El'Arad the spires were originally designed to channel their energy through the Nexus in Luclin."I'm just waiting for the retcon at this point.

Meirril

03-30-2010, 12:25 AM

<cite>Homeskillet wrote:</cite><blockquote>The Shissar did exist elsewhere in Norrath actually, most ancient constructs of Cazic Thule were of their making prior to their distancing themselves from their creator, ie Innothule. While the seat of their power was indeed in Kunark, they did not remain their exclusively. They very well may have had elven slaves as well, just none lived to tell of it. As for the spires, it is hard to believe that if back and forth teleportation required the construction of quadroliths upon the Nexus for the entire spire network to function, that they were only then built by the Combine when they arrived. I never said they did not ever prove capable of building them, I cited the constructs of Grieg and what he built in Mons Letalis and Fordel Mist.The big glaring issue here with regards to the original spire network is that the Combine are completely ruled out of construction by what is stated in the Sentinel's Fate lore books. The Shissar are almost ruled out as well because of the fact the Combine noted no quadroliths upon the cave they entered, and the aformentioned lore book states the Nexus was an integral part of that network, and if no quadroliths were necessary, then they would have not mirrored in construction everywhere they were seen. The layout and design was consistent, save for the much larger spires constructed in the Dreadlands. While it is quite possible the Rallosian Empire had a hand in it, it is still more likely attributed to the Shissar who were around at the same time and even helped the Rallosians at various points.So either the Combine accounts left details out, which is far fetched as they were not as unreachable as the Shissar as far as pre-EQ2 history, or the lore development right hand didn't talk to the lore development left hand.</blockquote>So what makes you think the Shissar have anything to do with Innothule Swamp, or the Rallosian Empire? Also, why do you assume the ability to create plannar portals has anything to do with the ability to teleport from one point on Norrath to another? By accounts of the Rallosian Empire the portal to Plane of Earth was created in what is now the Rathe Mountains. It is possible that the Rallosians felt they needed to march a good distance away from the nearest spire in North Karana...but they crossed the entire south Karana to perform their executions? Why? So they could be near the Innothule Swamp? Also if the Rallosians did use the spires for their invasion of the Plane of Earth then why didn't they use the Feerrott spire?I don't see any of this making any sense. Especially since the Rallosian Army was lead by Rallos himself into the Plane of Earth. They wouldn't need any knowledge of planar travel to get to the PoE with Rallos at its head.

Homeskillet

03-30-2010, 07:02 AM

<cite>Meirril wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Homeskillet wrote:</cite><blockquote>The Shissar did exist elsewhere in Norrath actually, most ancient constructs of Cazic Thule were of their making prior to their distancing themselves from their creator, ie Innothule. While the seat of their power was indeed in Kunark, they did not remain their exclusively. They very well may have had elven slaves as well, just none lived to tell of it. As for the spires, it is hard to believe that if back and forth teleportation required the construction of quadroliths upon the Nexus for the entire spire network to function, that they were only then built by the Combine when they arrived. I never said they did not ever prove capable of building them, I cited the constructs of Grieg and what he built in Mons Letalis and Fordel Mist.The big glaring issue here with regards to the original spire network is that the Combine are completely ruled out of construction by what is stated in the Sentinel's Fate lore books. The Shissar are almost ruled out as well because of the fact the Combine noted no quadroliths upon the cave they entered, and the aformentioned lore book states the Nexus was an integral part of that network, and if no quadroliths were necessary, then they would have not mirrored in construction everywhere they were seen. The layout and design was consistent, save for the much larger spires constructed in the Dreadlands. While it is quite possible the Rallosian Empire had a hand in it, it is still more likely attributed to the Shissar who were around at the same time and even helped the Rallosians at various points.So either the Combine accounts left details out, which is far fetched as they were not as unreachable as the Shissar as far as pre-EQ2 history, or the lore development right hand didn't talk to the lore development left hand.</blockquote>So what makes you think the Shissar have anything to do with Innothule Swamp, or the Rallosian Empire? Also, why do you assume the ability to create plannar portals has anything to do with the ability to teleport from one point on Norrath to another? By accounts of the Rallosian Empire the portal to Plane of Earth was created in what is now the Rathe Mountains. It is possible that the Rallosians felt they needed to march a good distance away from the nearest spire in North Karana...but they crossed the entire south Karana to perform their executions? Why? So they could be near the Innothule Swamp? Also if the Rallosians did use the spires for their invasion of the Plane of Earth then why didn't they use the Feerrott spire?I don't see any of this making any sense. Especially since the Rallosian Army was lead by Rallos himself into the Plane of Earth. They wouldn't need any knowledge of planar travel to get to the PoE with Rallos at its head.</blockquote>"So what makes you think the Shissar have anything to do with Innothule Swamp"The two big hands sitting there that were the only known monuments they constructed to honor Thule? You could see them in EQ1. Also, again considering the original quadroliths were not constructed by the Shissar, the Shissar obviously visited other continents."or the Rallosian Empire?"Murdunk convinced the Shissar to assist him in his planar invasions."Also, why do you assume the ability to create plannar portals has anything to do with the ability to teleport from one point on Norrath to another?"I don't. I mentioned the Shissar helped the Rallosian empire, which is true. They were contemporaries. I did not however, state that the Shissar were their only possible means of planar travel."Especially since the Rallosian Army was lead by Rallos himself into the Plane of Earth."Yes, it was led by Rallos...the second time. Murdunk assaulted the Plane of Earth the first time on his own...or perhaps with the help of certain Planes hopping, god-slaying snake people? Not sure on that one, but Rallos was not involved until the second attack where he amassed the army and allowed Murdunk to take part. It was here that he sent along Tallon and Vallon Zek.

Cusashorn

03-30-2010, 11:20 AM

<cite>Homeskillet wrote:</cite><blockquote>"So what makes you think the Shissar have anything to do with Innothule Swamp"The two big hands sitting there that were the only known monuments they constructed to honor Thule? You could see them in EQ1. Also, again considering the original quadroliths were not constructed by the Shissar, the Shissar obviously visited other continents.You mean the Hands of INNORUUK? They have nothing to do with Thule"or the Rallosian Empire?"Murdunk convinced the Shissar to assist him in his planar invasions.I mentioned the Shissar helped the Rallosian empire, which is true.Where is it proven that the Shissar helped out the Rallosian Empire, or even existed on Tunaria at any point?"Especially since the Rallosian Army was lead by Rallos himself into the Plane of Earth."Yes, it was led by Rallos...the second time. Murdunk assaulted the Plane of Earth the first time on his own...or perhaps with the help of certain Planes hopping, god-slaying snake people? Not sure on that one, but Rallos was not involved until the second attack where he amassed the army and allowed Murdunk to take part. It was here that he sent along Tallon and Vallon Zek.The Shissar never traveled to other planes or slew any gods. They just stopped believing in them and started worshipping themselves as gods. There's no mention that Tallon and Vallon zek got involved in the conquering of the Plane of Earth either.The Ogres were created by Rallos Zek to be the perfect race. They were both physically unstoppable and were the smartest race on Norrath when they were created. Rallos wanted them to be overpowered. He wanted them to be able to conquer other races with their superior intellect and strength. Nobody among the gods ever said that the creations they made on Norrath had to fair and limited in certain aspects. They had the knowledge to open up the planar realms, and probably didn't take any interest in teleportation. After the curse hit, all of that was gone. The only thing they had left was their brute strength.</blockquote>In b4 "Cusaconjecture".

Maergoth

03-30-2010, 09:08 PM

<a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/posts/list.m?topic_id=50031" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/p...?topic_id=50031</a>That's a fairly accurate, amazing post about the history of luclin. Take some time to check it out.

Homeskillet

03-30-2010, 10:16 PM

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Homeskillet wrote:</cite><blockquote>"So what makes you think the Shissar have anything to do with Innothule Swamp"The two big hands sitting there that were the only known monuments they constructed to honor Thule? You could see them in EQ1. Also, again considering the original quadroliths were not constructed by the Shissar, the Shissar obviously visited other continents.You mean the Hands of INNORUUK? They have nothing to do with Thule"or the Rallosian Empire?"Murdunk convinced the Shissar to assist him in his planar invasions.I mentioned the Shissar helped the Rallosian empire, which is true.Where is it proven that the Shissar helped out the Rallosian Empire, or even existed on Tunaria at any point?"Especially since the Rallosian Army was lead by Rallos himself into the Plane of Earth."Yes, it was led by Rallos...the second time. Murdunk assaulted the Plane of Earth the first time on his own...or perhaps with the help of certain Planes hopping, god-slaying snake people? Not sure on that one, but Rallos was not involved until the second attack where he amassed the army and allowed Murdunk to take part. It was here that he sent along Tallon and Vallon Zek.The Shissar never traveled to other planes or slew any gods. They just stopped believing in them and started worshipping themselves as gods. There's no mention that Tallon and Vallon zek got involved in the conquering of the Plane of Earth either.The Ogres were created by Rallos Zek to be the perfect race. They were both physically unstoppable and were the smartest race on Norrath when they were created. Rallos wanted them to be overpowered. He wanted them to be able to conquer other races with their superior intellect and strength. Nobody among the gods ever said that the creations they made on Norrath had to fair and limited in certain aspects. They had the knowledge to open up the planar realms, and probably didn't take any interest in teleportation. After the curse hit, all of that was gone. The only thing they had left was their brute strength.</blockquote>In b4 "Cusaconjecture".</blockquote>From the official Everquest website:Centuries ago a great ogre hero named Murdunk decided that an assault should be commenced upon the Rathe and the plane that they call home. A great battle in the Plane of Earth ensued and many guardians of earth perished along with numerous members of Murdunk's Rallosian army. The army was made up of countless orc, goblin and giant champions. But this army and invasion was destined to fail because of the regenerating ability that the Rathe Council, the Order of Twelve, possessed. As countless members of the Rallosian Army fell, few members of the Rathe council had been defeated when the final battle took place. With the ability to call another member of the Rathe council to duty as soon as a member was slain, the Rathe council had a great advantage and although many of their guardians had been defeated, the Rathe emerged victorious. News quickly spread of this great battle won by the Rathe and the Plane of Earth. Obviously disgruntled by the fact that they were defeated, Rallos Zek decided he would lead his own army into the Plane of Earth for a monumental battle. Although he was extremely disappointed with the failure that occurred before, Rallos decided to allow Murdunk to accompany his horde in this second assault simply because of the knowledge that Murdunk had acquired in his battles on the great plane. After building a massive army, Rallos decided that the time for an attack was now, so he sent his finest war generals to accompany Murdunk on his journey back into the Plane of Earth. Also on hand were the highest ranking officials in the Rallosian army, Tallon and Vallon Zek, master tacticians and proven war heroes.And in case you feel like arguing about EQ1 lore versus EQ2 lore, an excerpt from the in game book : Chronicles of Gromok:Messengers passing through the Fortress of Krithgor spoke of the victories of the legion units led by Rallos Zek, Warlord Murdunk, and the Generals Tallon and Vallon. It was said that the Rathe Council, the twelve rulers of the Plane of Earth had been captured and forced to Norrath where they were being executed by Murduk and his Generals, that mountains burst from the earth where the gods fell and that the dying tears of the fallen gods formed a cold, deep lake between the newly risen mountain peaks. As for those pesky Shissar and that Murdunk guy...here is some lore about Luclin and the Shissar, specifically Emperor Ssraeshza, who wasn't called the Godslayer for nothing.Ssraeshza Temple is a pyramid built by the race of snake people called Shissar. Long ago, the Shissar ruthlessly ruled the entire continent of Kunark. Their capital city of Chelsith was located in what is now known as The Overthere. It is there that they enslaved the Iksar and explored forgotten evils and dark arts in servitude of Cazic-Thule, the god of fear. The Shissar rose to power quickly, and drew the attention of the dragons. They learned much from the dragons and used it to their adventage immediately. The Shissar combined the dragons' knowledge with their own love of necromancy to create the world's first liches and blood golems through brutal experiments on the Iksar. They also found ways to extend their own lives through the dark arts. The Shissar advanced so quickly that their might pushed back even the dragons until there was nothing left of Kunark to conquer. They made their way north to the continents of Faydwer, Tunaria (now Antonica), and Odus. It is here they met resistance in the form of the Rallosian Empire led by the mighty Ogre, Murdunk. Murdunk met with Emperor Ssraeshza to form a truce. Murdunk convinced the emperor that war amongst each other was not the answer. The Rallosian army had conquered all of the northern continents and the Shissar the southern continent, so the next step was the astral planes of the gods themselves. Ssraeshza agreed. But rather than work together, they attacked on different fronts. The Rallosian Army immediately attacked the elemental Plane of Earth, which ended unsuccessfully and ultimately led to the curse of Zek's children leaving them primitive and unintelligent. The Shissar attacked lesser planes, those of now unknown demigods. Emperor Ssraeshza was successful in his escapades, earning the title of godslayer.As for the Hands of Thule in Innothule swamp, I don't feel like looking up where that was written but I've proved you wrong on every other front so just shut your face.

Cusashorn

03-30-2010, 10:21 PM

<cite>Maergoth wrote:</cite><blockquote><a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/posts/list.m?topic_id=50031" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/p...?topic_id=50031</a>That's a fairly accurate, amazing post about the history of luclin. Take some time to check it out.</blockquote>"A NOTE ON SOURCES: The goal of this history is to explain, simply, why everything on Luclin is the way it is. Verant went through a major change in organization and management about six months into the production of the ‘Shadows of Luclin’ expansion, and as such many of the stories and other texts that may have given a more solid explanation of things were lost. The following is in no way to be considered the absolute truth, but it is the best attempt to explain things working with what has been given, and based on the sources where they can be found." You'll understand my skepticism of that article since it doesn't provide any links to where any of this information was found.I am well versed with the Akhevan Civil War, and I admit most of the story is what I remember it, but it also introduces much more that, while not implausible, wasn't mentioned before.What I don't member *EVER* hearing, reading, or finding out about anywhere in EQlive was:- Any mention of the Shissar city of Chelsith. It wasn't until EQ2 that I first heard it's name mentioned, and we learned it used to be the Shissar capital.-Any mention that the empire had traveled outside of Kunark and met the Rallosian Army.-Any mention that the Shissar had invaded the planes and killed the gods.-That the Greenmist was created as a result of slaying the gods. I had always heard that it was created because the Shissar had whipped the backs of one Iksar slave too many, and Cazic wasn't going to take it anymore.-That the Greenmist was created side by side with the Curse of the Rathe.-Any explanation for the living fungus, Thought Leeches, zelniaks, rockhoppers, Galorians, Burrowers, Netherbians, or other lifeforms on Luclin.Most importantly, that topic commonly references when each event took place a little too precisely.How does anyone in the game find out that Akel Ha Ra had ruled over the Akhevans for 2000 years?That the fungus would grow to dominate the caverns of Luclin 500 years after the Akhevans came to be?That the Shissar arrived on Luclin around 2000 years ago (2500 for EQ2's timeline?)That the Netherbians came into existance 1000 years ago?That the Combine Empire formed 500 years ago (which places it right during EQOA and contradicts all the lore stating that all records of it's forming and downfall no longer existed.)That the Coterie Vampires were created about 50 years ago. I know the vampirysm was a desease created by one of the member of Katta Castellum, but not when.How Khati'Sha ended up becoming who she was. I knew she used to be a Vah Shir, but never heard how she came to be.I must admit, most of it makes sense (almost everything directly relating to Luclin and nothing to the Rallosians) in it's own way. Why are the remains of Vah Kerreth found in the Umbral Plains outside Vex Thal? Did the Recuso really lose their sanity because of the thought leeches, or was it just too much exposure in the desert? The explanation for the creatures in Grieg's End other than Grieg himself.Of course, these could just be an attempt at explaining them.The EQ Atlas, released directy by SOE themselves, states the Elysians are native beings to Luclin, and have no relation to being the souls of mortals killed during the civil war. Since there's no sources listed for anything in that compilation, I'm included to believe the atlas.

Cusashorn

03-30-2010, 10:24 PM

<cite>Homeskillet wrote:</cite><blockquote>As for the Hands of Thule in Innothule swamp, I don't feel like looking up where that was written but I've proved you wrong on every other front so just shut your face.</blockquote>What you've proven to me is that you're using partially ret-conned lore from the main EQ site that was put up after EQ2 came out.

Raolador

03-31-2010, 04:55 AM

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>What I don't member *EVER* hearing, reading, or finding out about anywhere in EQlive was:-Any mention that the Shissar had invaded the planes and killed the gods.Mention of Shissar in PoFear during Enchanter epic (Kunark): <a href="http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/search.shtml?id=5152">http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/s...h.shtml?id=5152</a>Emperor Ssraeshza's sword (Lore Tag Sword of Godslaying, and bane damage affects only Gods) : <a href="http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=11806">http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/...html?item=11806</a></blockquote>

Maergoth

04-01-2010, 07:25 AM

The times may be a little off and I'm sure some gaps were filled with best fit explanations.. but considering how "swiss cheese" all of Luclin was, I find my self referencing that post fairly often.

Homeskillet

04-01-2010, 03:06 PM

Though the author does indeed say that it is not meant to be taken as "absolute truth", since he can admit the ability of being wrong, most of it is grabbed from valid lore sources, despite the glaringly wrong issues. The parts about the Shissar though, are very accurate.

Garnaf

04-01-2010, 04:11 PM

Even the official lore sources can't be taken as 100% Absolute Truth. Way back in EQ1 when Kunark came out, Veeshan's Peak was referenced as being the home of all dragons, the origin of their kind. Velious changed this, but VP being the home of "All" dragons still makes sense to a certain extent, up until Velious the only dragons we had contact with were the Ring of Scale or their exiles (Nagafen and Vox).Lore, and what we know, is simply writen from the same standpoint as real history. No one source can claim to be absolute, we're always learning new things.

Homeskillet

04-01-2010, 11:31 PM

Well exactly, its back to my original point that the whole question of who originally built the spires is given some concrete change with new lore, that is either valid, a mistake or a massive retcon.

Cusashorn

04-02-2010, 02:32 AM

<cite>Homeskillet wrote:</cite><blockquote>Though the author does indeed say that it is not meant to be taken as "absolute truth", since he can admit the ability of being wrong, most of it is grabbed from valid lore sources, despite the glaringly wrong issues. The parts about the Shissar though, are very accurate.</blockquote>And yet with no sources given, there's no way to prove it's accuracy. I paid close attention to the Shissar lore in Luclin and never read or heard anything about them invading the planes or especially joining forces with the Rallosians. Most of that stuff about the other creatures on Luclin is outright unexplained.<cite>Dranikos@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>Even the official lore sources can't be taken as 100% Absolute Truth. Way back in EQ1 when Kunark came out, Veeshan's Peak was referenced as being the home of all dragons, the origin of their kind. Velious changed this, but VP being the home of "All" dragons still makes sense to a certain extent, up until Velious the only dragons we had contact with were the Ring of Scale or their exiles (Nagafen and Vox).Lore, and what we know, is simply writen from the same standpoint as real history. No one source can claim to be absolute, we're always learning new things.</blockquote>The Claws of Veeshan faction had been established in the background lore along with the reasons why the Ring of Scale existed before Kunark.

Meirril

04-03-2010, 04:38 AM

<cite>Homeskillet wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Homeskillet wrote:</cite><blockquote>"So what makes you think the Shissar have anything to do with Innothule Swamp"The two big hands sitting there that were the only known monuments they constructed to honor Thule? You could see them in EQ1. Also, again considering the original quadroliths were not constructed by the Shissar, the Shissar obviously visited other continents.You mean the Hands of INNORUUK? They have nothing to do with Thule"or the Rallosian Empire?"Murdunk convinced the Shissar to assist him in his planar invasions.I mentioned the Shissar helped the Rallosian empire, which is true.Where is it proven that the Shissar helped out the Rallosian Empire, or even existed on Tunaria at any point?"Especially since the Rallosian Army was lead by Rallos himself into the Plane of Earth."Yes, it was led by Rallos...the second time. Murdunk assaulted the Plane of Earth the first time on his own...or perhaps with the help of certain Planes hopping, god-slaying snake people? Not sure on that one, but Rallos was not involved until the second attack where he amassed the army and allowed Murdunk to take part. It was here that he sent along Tallon and Vallon Zek.The Shissar never traveled to other planes or slew any gods. They just stopped believing in them and started worshipping themselves as gods. There's no mention that Tallon and Vallon zek got involved in the conquering of the Plane of Earth either.The Ogres were created by Rallos Zek to be the perfect race. They were both physically unstoppable and were the smartest race on Norrath when they were created. Rallos wanted them to be overpowered. He wanted them to be able to conquer other races with their superior intellect and strength. Nobody among the gods ever said that the creations they made on Norrath had to fair and limited in certain aspects. They had the knowledge to open up the planar realms, and probably didn't take any interest in teleportation. After the curse hit, all of that was gone. The only thing they had left was their brute strength.</blockquote>In b4 "Cusaconjecture".</blockquote>From the official Everquest website:Centuries ago a great ogre hero named Murdunk decided that an assault should be commenced upon the Rathe and the plane that they call home. A great battle in the Plane of Earth ensued and many guardians of earth perished along with numerous members of Murdunk's Rallosian army. The army was made up of countless orc, goblin and giant champions. But this army and invasion was destined to fail because of the regenerating ability that the Rathe Council, the Order of Twelve, possessed. As countless members of the Rallosian Army fell, few members of the Rathe council had been defeated when the final battle took place. With the ability to call another member of the Rathe council to duty as soon as a member was slain, the Rathe council had a great advantage and although many of their guardians had been defeated, the Rathe emerged victorious. News quickly spread of this great battle won by the Rathe and the Plane of Earth. Obviously disgruntled by the fact that they were defeated, Rallos Zek decided he would lead his own army into the Plane of Earth for a monumental battle. Although he was extremely disappointed with the failure that occurred before, Rallos decided to allow Murdunk to accompany his horde in this second assault simply because of the knowledge that Murdunk had acquired in his battles on the great plane. After building a massive army, Rallos decided that the time for an attack was now, so he sent his finest war generals to accompany Murdunk on his journey back into the Plane of Earth. Also on hand were the highest ranking officials in the Rallosian army, Tallon and Vallon Zek, master tacticians and proven war heroes.And in case you feel like arguing about EQ1 lore versus EQ2 lore, an excerpt from the in game book : Chronicles of Gromok:Messengers passing through the Fortress of Krithgor spoke of the victories of the legion units led by Rallos Zek, Warlord Murdunk, and the Generals Tallon and Vallon. It was said that the Rathe Council, the twelve rulers of the Plane of Earth had been captured and forced to Norrath where they were being executed by Murduk and his Generals, that mountains burst from the earth where the gods fell and that the dying tears of the fallen gods formed a cold, deep lake between the newly risen mountain peaks. As for those pesky Shissar and that Murdunk guy...here is some lore about Luclin and the Shissar, specifically Emperor Ssraeshza, who wasn't called the Godslayer for nothing.Ssraeshza Temple is a pyramid built by the race of snake people called Shissar. Long ago, the Shissar ruthlessly ruled the entire continent of Kunark. Their capital city of Chelsith was located in what is now known as The Overthere. It is there that they enslaved the Iksar and explored forgotten evils and dark arts in servitude of Cazic-Thule, the god of fear. The Shissar rose to power quickly, and drew the attention of the dragons. They learned much from the dragons and used it to their adventage immediately. The Shissar combined the dragons' knowledge with their own love of necromancy to create the world's first liches and blood golems through brutal experiments on the Iksar. They also found ways to extend their own lives through the dark arts. The Shissar advanced so quickly that their might pushed back even the dragons until there was nothing left of Kunark to conquer. They made their way north to the continents of Faydwer, Tunaria (now Antonica), and Odus. It is here they met resistance in the form of the Rallosian Empire led by the mighty Ogre, Murdunk. Murdunk met with Emperor Ssraeshza to form a truce. Murdunk convinced the emperor that war amongst each other was not the answer. The Rallosian army had conquered all of the northern continents and the Shissar the southern continent, so the next step was the astral planes of the gods themselves. Ssraeshza agreed. But rather than work together, they attacked on different fronts. The Rallosian Army immediately attacked the elemental Plane of Earth, which ended unsuccessfully and ultimately led to the curse of Zek's children leaving them primitive and unintelligent. The Shissar attacked lesser planes, those of now unknown demigods. Emperor Ssraeshza was successful in his escapades, earning the title of godslayer.As for the Hands of Thule in Innothule swamp, I don't feel like looking up where that was written but I've proved you wrong on every other front so just shut your face.</blockquote>Isn't the Rallosian lore introduced by a recent EQ1 expansion? The one where they "rediscover" the city where they invaded the PoE? I don't remember hearing any stories back in my eq1 days (which ended with EQ2) about two invasions of the PoE by the first Rallosian Army. I also don't remember any discussion about a leader other than Rallos...

Meirril

04-03-2010, 04:44 AM

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>What I don't member *EVER* hearing, reading, or finding out about anywhere in EQlive was:- Any mention of the Shissar city of Chelsith. It wasn't until EQ2 that I first heard it's name mentioned, and we learned it used to be the Shissar capital.-Any mention that the empire had traveled outside of Kunark and met the Rallosian Army.-Any mention that the Shissar had invaded the planes and killed the gods.-That the Greenmist was created as a result of slaying the gods. I had always heard that it was created because the Shissar had whipped the backs of one Iksar slave too many, and Cazic wasn't going to take it anymore.-That the Greenmist was created side by side with the Curse of the Rathe.-Any explanation for the living fungus, Thought Leeches, zelniaks, rockhoppers, Galorians, Burrowers, Netherbians, or other lifeforms on Luclin.Most importantly, that topic commonly references when each event took place a little too precisely.How does anyone in the game find out that Akel Ha Ra had ruled over the Akhevans for 2000 years?That the fungus would grow to dominate the caverns of Luclin 500 years after the Akhevans came to be?That the Shissar arrived on Luclin around 2000 years ago (2500 for EQ2's timeline?)That the Netherbians came into existance 1000 years ago?That the Combine Empire formed 500 years ago (which places it right during EQOA and contradicts all the lore stating that all records of it's forming and downfall no longer existed.)That the Coterie Vampires were created about 50 years ago. I know the vampirysm was a desease created by one of the member of Katta Castellum, but not when.How Khati'Sha ended up becoming who she was. I knew she used to be a Vah Shir, but never heard how she came to be.I must admit, most of it makes sense (almost everything directly relating to Luclin and nothing to the Rallosians) in it's own way. Why are the remains of Vah Kerreth found in the Umbral Plains outside Vex Thal? Did the Recuso really lose their sanity because of the thought leeches, or was it just too much exposure in the desert? The explanation for the creatures in Grieg's End other than Grieg himself.Of course, these could just be an attempt at explaining them.The EQ Atlas, released directy by SOE themselves, states the Elysians are native beings to Luclin, and have no relation to being the souls of mortals killed during the civil war. Since there's no sources listed for anything in that compilation, I'm included to believe the atlas.</blockquote>I remember that stories that mention the Shissar Callendar talk about them performing raids into the planes where they managed to capture the runes that make up the Callendar itself. I also remember a total lack of details on which planes they visisted and how they aquired those runes. This may have been an EQ story and not an EQ1 story, but the callendar was first mentioned there in relation to the Shissar knowing to leave Kunark in time. I was actually under the impression that the callendar was in Ssara Temple because these were the Shissar that used the information to escape but EQ2 introduced Chelsith and firmly located the callendar there with its lore.

Xalmat

04-04-2010, 05:33 AM

Thanks for the history on Luclin lore. I seem to remember reading similar texts in the old manuals, but never anything so detailed.If the lore on the Shissar is to be considered correct, then:* The Shissar erected the "Combine Spires", also known as The Quadroliths. The Quadroliths were not originally intended to channel energy through Luclin at the time of creation; they were changed to do so some time later by the Combine Loyalists to escape the Seru Inquisition. (On a side note, Al'Kabor was the first person to successfully make the return trip to Norrath possible).---This seems to be a slight contradiction to the presented lore in Sentinel's Fate. But I'll let it slide.* Ssraeshza is another God Slayer (of which I was not aware). Unlike Rhoen Theer however, he had plans of conquest, and he claimed the defeated gods' planes as his own. He also tried to become a god himself, much like Mayong Mistmoore tried to do in the alternate time line.* It seems the gods could not stop Ssraeshza, but could only invoke divine retribution post facto.Would Rhoen Theer have been able to stop Emperor Ssraeshza if he wanted to? Was Rhoen Theer (and Anashti Sul) already banished to the Void when Ssraeshza's planar conquests occured? I find it unlikely that Theer was working together with Ssraeshza, as the gods were able to defeat Theer originally (at great loss) but could not defeat Ssraeshza.By what means did Ssraeshza actually slay the gods? Rhoen Theer needs the Claymore and Soulfire, so did Ssraeshza use some of the essence of these swords in constructing his god slaying weapon?It's suggested that Morrell Thule interfered with Luclin's plans. This is very interesting considering the recent live event involving Morrell Thule.It still makes me wonder what ultimately lead to the destruction of Luclin. What became of the Mistress of Shadow herself?

Tyrus Dracofire

04-04-2010, 01:07 PM

note to ToxicLallaby, yes, i read Piers' books with Xanth series and adept series, fun books to read.let not forget LoN, not speaking about cards, but lore of ancient norrathians. those Ethernaughts were first thought as myth until encounter some of folks in some strange planar realm that may defied chronical timelines, who knows if these guys were the cause of Lucin moon to explode to delay the "Elder Gods" attemp to return/escaping from the void, and not those "Eruditians" who made errors with spires?back in late 2004 when eq2 released, story about our character woke up on "Colony" island, aka Hightower island, saying that we did broke from some kind of Ark that crashed nearby or fought at Nexus Plane and send us flying across time arc, having past memories erased.

Homeskillet

04-04-2010, 03:49 PM

<cite>Tyrus@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>note to ToxicLallaby, yes, i read Piers' books with Xanth series and adept series, fun books to read.let not forget LoN, not speaking about cards, but lore of ancient norrathians. those Ethernaughts were first thought as myth until encounter some of folks in some strange planar realm that may defied chronical timelines, who knows if these guys were the cause of Lucin moon to explode to delay the "Elder Gods" attemp to return/escaping from the void, and not those "Eruditians" who made errors with spires?back in late 2004 when eq2 released, story about our character woke up on "Colony" island, aka Hightower island, saying that we did broke from some kind of Ark that crashed nearby or fought at Nexus Plane and send us flying across time arc, having past memories erased.</blockquote>We're not playing the same game.

Tyrus Dracofire

04-05-2010, 03:17 AM

pardon me, what not same game?i played it since Dec 2004, i know we went thru many different devs, changing original training island, crafting's subcons, and skill trees.not same game? Eq2 still here, characters stay same regardless what class, what city they picked.you cant deny, i still got couple of old school book quests that used to do "kill 10 mobs" a page, and now just find a missing page to add. i got old books to prove it and got some lore wrote by original team.as i post earlier, it was about a twist in story plot by "Ethernauts", they didnt exist in original books, anyway, these myths were recently discovered with ancient relics as we hit 90th lvl in craft skill, add new story flavor when myth is unknown.geez, relax, it is just a game, this topic is about lore of the void and who were involved, i wasnt talking about game, but all about lore which is still yet discovered. maybe i am wrong but you are not right anyways, story of the game are subject to be change by devs or by producer at that chosen time. they are here to make game interesting with new twists in plots.

Meirril

04-05-2010, 06:02 AM

<cite>Xalmat wrote:</cite><blockquote>Thanks for the history on Luclin lore. I seem to remember reading similar texts in the old manuals, but never anything so detailed.If the lore on the Shissar is to be considered correct, then:* The Shissar erected the "Combine Spires", also known as The Quadroliths. The Quadroliths were not originally intended to channel energy through Luclin at the time of creation; they were changed to do so some time later by the Combine Loyalists to escape the Seru Inquisition. (On a side note, Al'Kabor was the first person to successfully make the return trip to Norrath possible).---This seems to be a slight contradiction to the presented lore in Sentinel's Fate. But I'll let it slide.* Ssraeshza is another God Slayer (of which I was not aware). Unlike Rhoen Theer however, he had plans of conquest, and he claimed the defeated gods' planes as his own. He also tried to become a god himself, much like Mayong Mistmoore tried to do in the alternate time line.* It seems the gods could not stop Ssraeshza, but could only invoke divine retribution post facto.Would Rhoen Theer have been able to stop Emperor Ssraeshza if he wanted to? Was Rhoen Theer (and Anashti Sul) already banished to the Void when Ssraeshza's planar conquests occured? I find it unlikely that Theer was working together with Ssraeshza, as the gods were able to defeat Theer originally (at great loss) but could not defeat Ssraeshza.By what means did Ssraeshza actually slay the gods? Rhoen Theer needs the Claymore and Soulfire, so did Ssraeshza use some of the essence of these swords in constructing his god slaying weapon?It's suggested that Morrell Thule interfered with Luclin's plans. This is very interesting considering the recent live event involving Morrell Thule.It still makes me wonder what ultimately lead to the destruction of Luclin. What became of the Mistress of Shadow herself?</blockquote>From what I understand of Luclin lore that is somewhat incorrect. While I don't have any idea who constructed the Quadroliths (I like to refer to them as spires), the Combine Empire used them as a transportation network. Also the Combine were able to travel back and forth from Luclin initially. After Seru started the civil war the Royalists decided to escape to Luclin because they felt that Seru wouldn't know where the went. Seru found out and followed. Afterward Luclin (the god) cut off all teleporation to Luclin (the moon) until Al'kabor teleported himself to Luclin. The in-game explination given at the time was that Luclin had come into a closer orbit and with the teleporation shards in hand it strengthened the teleporation pulse enough to get you to Luclin.Strangely enough, we didn't use the large spire at the pyramids that we know as Teran's Grasp here in EQ2. We used the regular old fashioned spires found in several continents. The pyramids were still haunted by skeletons and largely under-utalized and unused. So we arn't even using the same method the Combine Empire used! Go fig.Also, that whole line of Emperor Ssraeshza being a god slayer? Please remember that the will of a single diety (Cazic Thule) through the Greenmist wiped out the entire Shissar Empire and sent Ssraeshza and his entire court into hiding in the Grey for thousands of years. How is this guy considered a godslayer? Yes, the weapon he carries is effective against dieties and their minions. You also wanted special weapons to fight Emperor Ssraeshza with due to a new mechanic in the game. If you beat him, you actually got a weapon that gave you a slight edge in the next expansion. That's about it for lore on this item.Ultimately we don't know what happen to Luclin herself. It could be that she has been killed, or imprisoned by Sol Ro and Rallos Zek. It could be that she blew up the moon to spite them. It could be that she escaped the moon before the armies came. It could be that she was forced to withdraw with the rest of the gods and has yet to return (and boy will she be [Removed for Content]!). That is for a future expansion to reveal.

Xalmat

04-05-2010, 02:05 PM

<cite>Meirril wrote:</cite><blockquote>Also, that whole line of Emperor Ssraeshza being a god slayer? Please remember that the will of a single diety (Cazic Thule) through the Greenmist wiped out the entire Shissar Empire and sent Ssraeshza and his entire court into hiding in the Grey for thousands of years. How is this guy considered a godslayer? Yes, the weapon he carries is effective against dieties and their minions. You also wanted special weapons to fight Emperor Ssraeshza with due to a new mechanic in the game. If you beat him, you actually got a weapon that gave you a slight edge in the next expansion. That's about it for lore on this item.</blockquote>According to that lore, Ssraeshza and his armies killed several gods and conquered their planes. That makes him a bona fide god slayer.He might have killed several gods, but he "forgot" to go after Cazic Thule in the process.

Homeskillet

04-05-2010, 09:37 PM

<cite>Xalmat wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Meirril wrote:</cite><blockquote>Also, that whole line of Emperor Ssraeshza being a god slayer? Please remember that the will of a single diety (Cazic Thule) through the Greenmist wiped out the entire Shissar Empire and sent Ssraeshza and his entire court into hiding in the Grey for thousands of years. How is this guy considered a godslayer? Yes, the weapon he carries is effective against dieties and their minions. You also wanted special weapons to fight Emperor Ssraeshza with due to a new mechanic in the game. If you beat him, you actually got a weapon that gave you a slight edge in the next expansion. That's about it for lore on this item.</blockquote>According to that lore, Ssraeshza and his armies killed several gods and conquered their planes. That makes him a bona fide god slayer.He might have killed several gods, but he "forgot" to go after Cazic Thule in the process.</blockquote>He only successfully slew some lesser Demi-Gods as I understood it, I doubt they forgot anything, but didn't try to do what they knew they could not. It's not far fetched considering players frolicked around the planes [Removed for Content] and pillaging.

Cusashorn

04-06-2010, 12:40 AM

<cite>Tyrus@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>let not forget LoN, not speaking about cards, but lore of ancient norrathians. those Ethernaughts were first thought as myth until encounter some of folks in some strange planar realm that may defied chronical timelines, who knows if these guys were the cause of Lucin moon to explode to delay the "Elder Gods" attemp to return/escaping from the void, and not those "Eruditians" who made errors with spires?Legend of Norrath's stories have nothing to do with the actual continuity of Everquest or Everquest 2. LoN is it's own game, with it's own scenarios and stories. Nothing in LoN actually reflects, changes, or applies to the lore established in either EQ or EQ2.back in late 2004 when eq2 released, story about our character woke up on "Colony" island, aka Hightower island, saying that we did broke from some kind of Ark that crashed nearby or fought at Nexus Plane and send us flying across time arc, having past memories erased...... Other than "eq2" and "island", there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING IN THAT SENTENCE THAT RELATES TO EVERQUEST 2!</blockquote>

Tyrus Dracofire

04-06-2010, 07:01 AM

didnt you get that "90 lvl crafter's Relic quest" and met that dwarf, he was on Ethernaut team over thousands years ago trying to survive Anasti Sul's horde.at this point, libraries may not have any existing books of lost adventures of ethernauts, so they were just a myth until very recent discovery, maybe there possible a few surviving books in other undiscovered lands or somewhere in planar that defy time and protected from ravage of aging.all we got was just pieces of small clues, and lot of "speculatings" assuming if they tried to delay Anasti Sul and others to return from the Void.so who knows that maybe we all were part of Ethernauts' assault forces, and got knock out by explosion and our memories erased, it is only "Theory" if we are chrono-leap from "last event" and these Far Sea sailors found us drifting and drop off on island when we woke up.wait for devs to reveal how we got here, and discovery of what happen on Luclin moon, and the meeting with one of "original ethernauts" was a tip of iceberg.

Meirril

04-06-2010, 07:17 AM

<cite>Tyrus@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>didnt you get that "90 lvl crafter's Relic quest" and met that dwarf, he was on Ethernaut team over thousands years ago trying to survive Anasti Sul's horde.at this point, libraries may not have any existing books of lost adventures of ethernauts, so they were just a myth until very recent discovery, maybe there possible a few surviving books in other undiscovered lands or somewhere in planar that defy time and protected from ravage of aging.all we got was just pieces of small clues, and lot of "speculatings" assuming if they tried to delay Anasti Sul and others to return from the Void.so who knows that maybe we all were part of Ethernauts' assault forces, and got knock out by explosion and our memories erased, it is only "Theory" if we are chrono-leap from "last event" and these Far Sea sailors found us drifting and drop off on island when we woke up.wait for devs to reveal how we got here, and discovery of what happen on Luclin moon, and the meeting with one of "original ethernauts" was a tip of iceberg.</blockquote>You read the Ethernaught stories that were published here before TSO was released, right? A lot of us read those stories. There is zero chance what your speculating happened.Also about 2/3rds of the characters in EQ2 have never been to the isle of refuge, or the queens colony, or the emporer's...umm...what does Lucan call that forced labor camp of his? Either way, the percentage of players that still play the game and actually remember being rescued by the Far Seas Trading Company is very small. I don't think the collective lore of the players is going to invove that in any way shape or form.

Lodrelhai

04-08-2010, 01:27 AM

<cite>Tyrus@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>back in late 2004 when eq2 released, story about our character woke up on "Colony" island, aka Hightower island, saying that we did broke from some kind of Ark that crashed nearby or fought at Nexus Plane and send us flying across time arc, having past memories erased.</blockquote>You seem to be very confused about the backstory of those (increasingly rare) characters who did end up on the Colony island.The story with the Isle of Refuge at the time we landed was that we were traveling by sea (assumedly either trying to reach Qeynos or Freeport now that the seas were open) and our ship was attacked by pirates. Captain Vargos's ship rescued us from among the flotsam, and took us to the Isle of Refuge. If you did the optional intro quest series from game launch and talked to the other refugees on board, they'd talk about those the pirates killed or how lucky we were to be saved.Much, much later, we find out that the dragon Darathar was responsible for most, if not all, of our earlly troubles and subsequent landing on the Isle of Refuge. He found us, decided there was something in us that would be useful to him, wiped our memories (either of the encounter with him or entirely, I was never sure), and sent us on our way. I don't know if he sent the pirates that attacked our ship, but he was the Captain Vargos that rescued us from the sea (and sent the drakota that attacked the ship once we'd been rescued - just a fly-by attack that set a couple crates on fire and freed a captive goblin). I'm guessing the drakota attack was to test our response to sudden danger.So no, we didn't randomly wake up on the colony island, there was no Ark that we broke from, and our memories would have been fine if not for the interest and interference of a dragon. We had a past on Norrath - a relatively uneventful and inconsequencial one before Darathar, but one nonetheless.