Fix the [Removed for Content] thing. [Archive]

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Humayon

03-04-2010, 09:14 AM

I know it has been said many a times but i will say it again, fix the aggro issues and sort out the defense/parry stats in the new expansion.First, the aggro issues, im sick and tired of having to use snap aggro everytime i have a pally or sk on the OT duty. I cannot ask them not to play their class but seriously this is not right at all. Even with full reversal threat (which by the way is a real dissappointment) you lose hate to crusaders far too easily and i have seen it happen many times that once i have used all of my snaps i just sit there and watch my threat drop from high 80s to 50s in a matter of seconds. No way in the world i can grab aggro back with conventional means, i.e. taunts or dps (which is a joke). Crusaders constantly hit 18-20+k mark in raid dps and we are still stuck at 11-12k barrier which only comes through by foregoing our defesne and resorting to dual wield. A vital question arises here, what do you want the guardians to use as their primary means of generating hate, dps or taunts be it passive or active ones? Because frankly either way is not effective. The one thing i used to take pride in was our single target aggro which is just not there anymore. You are happily going along when you see that your OT just on the bases of his/her dps and some passive procs peels it away.I had high hopes from the new expansion but now everytime i log in to play im pushed back more and more everyday and eventually may even stop playing the game. Do not quote me out of context here, im not saying that just because it is tough im talking about quitting, it is just that its an unfair reality which seriously takes the main element of this game out which is fun. Worrying about keeping aggro from your fellow tank is mostly the main concern on raids these days, i hardly get to enjoy the named bosses or their scripts during fights.Secondly, im certain others have noticed this as well but the defense stat is not working properly. I have checked my ACT many times and everytime im amazed to see how the mob hits you regardless of how much defense you have.So to sum up, by in game definition, guardians lead from the front, take hits like no other and still survive in battle. Or from what i usually thought of as: Single target defensive tanks excelling in melee skills. The previous statement is only a statement right now and far from being a reality.Combine all of this with loot tables which are pretty odd and you have a recipe for annoying many players. Crusaders can do our job better than us being as MT, include berserkers and you have covered the single/multi target fights, this leaves brawlers and surprisingly even they have better aggro than us, so where does this leave us? We can't dps high enough to match any of the aforementioned classes, defensively might be on par if it was working properly and surely people don't take us on board to look good in shiny armor.We are not asking for much here, little tweaks can fix these problems. Starting from fixing our own inherent hate gain would be a great idea for example.EDIT: Please do not "nerf" or kill other classes just to make us feel better. Come up with a novel solution.

Grumpy_Warrior_01

03-04-2010, 10:26 AM

Hate position modifiers now show up in ACT, make sure the OT is not abusing those. Alternatively, use another guard as OT.

Humayon

03-04-2010, 03:07 PM

Using 2 guards in a raid is extremely impractical with an exception of a few cases. Moreover, why would the setup be changed where the root problem clearly exists elsewhere.

Landiin

03-04-2010, 04:19 PM

<cite>Grumpy_Warrior_01 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Alternatively, use another guard as OT.</blockquote>LOL, This has to be the dumbest thing every said on these forums..

Destraum

03-04-2010, 05:01 PM

<cite>Humayon wrote:</cite><blockquote>First, the aggro issues, im sick and tired of having to use snap aggro everytime i have a pally or sk on the OT duty. I cannot ask them not to play their class but seriously this is not right at all.</blockquote>I guess the 2 questions I have are: 1) What type of situations are you losing agro to them? and 2) Are your crusaders blasting away on their Holy Ground and Grave Sacrament forcing you to use your snaps?If your losing agro to them on AE encounters because they need to grab up all the adds, then I would have to say that this is just something your going to have to deal with and learn to adjust to it. Maybe positioning differently to keep the named out of their AE's and such. Also, good communication between all tanks is essential making everyone's job alot easier.But, if your losing agro to them on single target encounters because they are blasting away with GS and HG, then get some better Crusaders. One's that understand when, and when NOT to use their agro tools. If their using the excuse "it's DPS" when they pop those, then they truly do not understand how to properly OT in certain situations.I've said it before and will say it again, Tanking is about "knowing your role" on a raid. If your tanks don't know their role on a raid, (i.e. MT, ST, OT/AT) then they need to be instructed. And if they fail in those instructions, or choose to ignore them and do as they wish, find new ones. There's no room for Primadona's when it comes to raiding. You either work together and succeed, or work alone and fail.

Wasuna

03-04-2010, 06:37 PM

Crusaders can pull agro off a Dirge/Hate Transfer buffed Guardian by the sheer fact that they can easily do twice the DPS of a Guardian. This is with the Guardian dual weilding also. If they Guardian needs to turtle up a bit for the tanking job then the DPS gap gets even worse.I'm only 89 but I have run instances with my Guardian and also run them with Crusdaer tanks while playing my Troubador. It's no comparision. I even took the step and respeced my AA's to try and improve my DPS. That helped a little but it's still a pain in the butt to keep agro and I took a decent hit to my tanking ability with the AA respec.

Destraum

03-04-2010, 08:58 PM

<cite>Wasuna wrote:</cite><blockquote>Crusaders can pull agro off a Dirge/Hate Transfer buffed Guardian by the sheer fact that they can easily do twice the DPS of a Guardian. This is with the Guardian dual weilding also. If they Guardian needs to turtle up a bit for the tanking job then the DPS gap gets even worse.I'm only 89 but I have run instances with my Guardian and also run them with Crusdaer tanks while playing my Troubador. It's no comparision. I even took the step and respeced my AA's to try and improve my DPS. That helped a little but it's still a pain in the butt to keep agro and I took a decent hit to my tanking ability with the AA respec.</blockquote>Then my statement holds true even more about finding new Crusaders. Being an off-tank is about agro management, NOT dps. If you want to be DPS, roll a scout or caster, not a Tank. Everyone has that little window on their UI with that little number on it that tells them exactly how much hate they have and IF they are about to rip agro. WATCH The [Removed for Content] thing!!! If your about to rip agro, turn your attack off. It's bad enough tanks have to worry about keep the scouts/casters from ripping agro. But to have to worry about another tank that control himself, or has to show that he can "do it all" has no place in any raid.

steelbadger

03-04-2010, 09:13 PM

That's all very well and good, but why is the "Skill" in playing a crusader to be found in the ability to not pull aggro? The only "skill" involved if I want to avoid pulling aggro is remembering not to use Reinforcement. I certainly don't need to worry about my auto-attack.I raid with a Pally as OT and while I must admit that his aoe dps is somewhat obscene (The coming together of all of their sword/board damage AAs and AoE auto-attack results in a massive jump in dps against aoe fights) I don't find him to be a problem on single target fights (assuming amends is off). On a single target fight I currently only rarely see people get above 50% of my threat.I don't have a problem with our raid pally, but it does irk me some that he can actually beat all comers on the dps parse on certain aoe encounters. I have an old-fashioned view of tanking and that is that we're not here to be dps, if we do more dps than dps classes then whats the point of those dps classes?But whatever, we're better off all round than we were in TSO.

VikingGamer

03-04-2010, 09:57 PM

I have seen it said that Guardians are the best survival tanks. That is their niche, they can take the hits harder than anyone else. The problem is, if they don't have aggro, they are not the ones taking the hits. The tanks cannot be balanced based on survivability vs aggro. This is patently stupid. If you can't get the aggro you are no longer the tank. The end. The tanks have to be balance survivablity vs dps. Aggro must be normalized. This is not the first game to have this problem. This is not an EQ2 issue. This is the nature of mmo gaming. Normalize aggro.A guardian needs to do the same aggro as a paladin using a normal rotation, with out using cooldowns, given similar equipment.and yes, I am a paladin.

Destraum

03-05-2010, 02:02 PM

<cite>steelbadger wrote:</cite><blockquote>That's all very well and good, but why is the "Skill" in playing a crusader to be found in the ability to not pull aggro? The only "skill" involved if I want to avoid pulling aggro is remembering not to use Reinforcement. I certainly don't need to worry about my auto-attack.I raid with a Pally as OT and while I must admit that his aoe dps is somewhat obscene (The coming together of all of their sword/board damage AAs and AoE auto-attack results in a massive jump in dps against aoe fights) I don't find him to be a problem on single target fights (assuming amends is off). On a single target fight I currently only rarely see people get above 50% of my threat.I don't have a problem with our raid pally, but it does irk me some that he can actually beat all comers on the dps parse on certain aoe encounters. I have an old-fashioned view of tanking and that is that we're not here to be dps, if we do more dps than dps classes then whats the point of those dps classes?But whatever, we're better off all round than we were in TSO.</blockquote>Sorry, was not my intention to imply that it takes skill in playing a crusader to not take agro. What I was trying to say is that as an off-tank, and this applies to what-ever class may be off-tanking, it is the OT's responsibility to not steal agro from the MT. And honestly Steel, it sounds like your Paly doesn't have his head up his butt while you all raid. It sounds to me like he understands his role very well as a OT and performs it well. And this is were I find the disconnect between most Crusader OT's tanks and raiding.Example:MT group - Guard, Defiler, Temp, Coercer, Dirge, Swash/AssassinOT Group - Paly, Defilier, Temp, Coercer, Dirge, any high dps class scout/casterIn this type of a typical raid set-up, both tanks should be able to perform their jobs very well as well as the following applies:<ol><li>Guard MT is in Offensive stance, able to dual-wield for maximum dps/agro, only sacrificing some survivability if the raid target allows it. If the guard has to for some reason switch to either Sword/Board combo or Defensive stance. Then the Paly would then have to recognize this, and adjust accordingly not to steal agro from the MT.</li><li>The Paly OT does NOT use his AE snap abilities (Holy Ground) when it isn't necessary.</li></ol>And this is the biggest issue that I believe exists in this game today between tanks. It's not that these abilities exist in the game or how they work. But rather, that most OT's fail to recognize when they should and should not be using it. Far to often do you hear the excuse for a OT using an AE snap agro as "DPS". And this goes for SK's Grave Sacrament and Zerker's Insolence (Gibe) as well. These abilities were designed for the specific use of grabbing large groups of mobs and focusing them on the tanks, and not the caster/scout DPS. And when an OT or an Add Tank has performed his job on an encounter and killed his specific set of mobs designated for him to kill, and there is only 1 mob left. Then there should be absolutely NO reason for that OT/AT what-so-ever to be casting those abilities while the MT is alive. Of course, there are certain exceptions to this as well, i.e. Mem-wiping mobs, Tank Charms, and the like. But that I believe this is something of a seperate circumstance and wouldn't apply to this somewhat.So you see, while I believe it takes skill in order to play our classes to the fullest. I believe it takes even greater skill in the tanks to be able to recognize a few things:<ol><li>What group they are in and what role are they being asked to perform?</li><li>What abilities will they need in order to perform their specific role on an encounter?</li><li>How will using their abilities affect other tanks trying to perform their specific roles?</li><li>What adjustments need to be made during an encounter to perform their role?</li><li>It's not if I can or could do this, but rather should I do this?</li></ol>In these 5 questions alone, most tanks will fail as an OT. Not because they cannot tank a mob, but simply because they fail to recognize their role on a raid.

Landiin

03-05-2010, 03:24 PM

Point blank guards agro SUCKS!! Stop making excuses about the off tank this and that. The devs need to fix it. Any other plate tank can stand in MT spot just fine. It is proven and being done so the BS about us being the only MT is F'n CRAP!

steelbadger

03-05-2010, 04:36 PM

Roehl, you fail to understand my complaint I think.Why do crusaders have so much more potential than warriors?Why is it acceptable that Crusaders can attain their full dps potential with only a minimal impact on their survivability potential?I rather like the design of the other 4 tank classes (counting brawlers as tanks). To attain our maximum threat generation we must make major survivability sacrifices we have to dump our shield, now our only source of avoidance of worth when tanking raid mob; go into offensive stance, greatly reducing our mitigation; change gear around to maximise DA and Crit, against having a big impact on HP, avoidance and mitigation with the introduction of mit bonuses on jewellery. The single biggest impact to our survivability is the loss of our shield. Crusaders can keep their shield, do the rest of the stuff we do, and see far greater benefit from it.I don't care how the class is played. I want to know why it is ok that a Crusader can pull in 20k dps while sporting 70% mit and 70% avoidance when a Guard can only do a maximum of about 10k while sporting 50% mit and 45% avoid?

dr4gonUK

03-05-2010, 07:49 PM

Are you all in t9 raid dropped gear and 250aa?I wont say to much as i only have a few pieces of t9 and only 220aa. But!My guard still feels like the best single target tank. I rolled sk to 80 pre sf and honestly, they just dont have the tools for the job compared to guard.Sure crusaders are dps beasts still, parses show that. And yes, i have serious problems at the moment trying to get aggro from zero hate off sk ( but not paladin funnily enough ). I dont know whether is just because at the time they have grim sac running or what /shrugLong term, every wise raid guild will have tank classes covered. If a guild needs a tank that can take huge damage on single target for progress reasons, those who have played game since launch know that is guards role.See how things are in a few weeks when aa capped ( improved mod, aggressive entry, fight through death, guards phalanx and last man standing )

Landiin

03-06-2010, 04:55 AM

You fail to see the point Tanx.. Yes we are the best single target tank to take a hits from a single mob. That is it! We are not the best at holding single target aggro, we are not the best a multi target aggro or dmg absorbtion. The only thing we are good at is taking hits from one mob and nothing else. But you know what? We have to sacrifice that edge in order to hold aggro. So now we have nothing going for us...

Vlahkmaak

03-06-2010, 06:13 AM

I will have to disagree with most of the posters on this thread. My guard feels stronger than ever. AOE aggro is little to ZERO problem these days in ess than perfect grps. I currently have no PVE complaint with guards. PVP is another story. Resists are so borked atm that where I used to run around solo on my guard and win most fights we are walking pvp updates again due to pvp changes not being tested. Whole grps that used to run from me solo now wtfpwn me the day after release. If its not one thing for a guard its another. You know its a good day though for the class when you run across another guard on a pvp server. I went a full year withoout ever seeing another guard out pvping. Several are running around now, people are dusting off their old guards and letting them see the light of day.

Humayon

03-06-2010, 09:42 AM

<cite>Toran@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote>Any other plate tank can stand in MT spot just fine.</blockquote>QFE.I have played enough at the top tier to say that guardian's aggro compare to other tank classes is not good enough. you can say that the OT should avoid using his/her abilities such as HG to help the guard out, i understand that point but that was not the point of my initial post. We are not the best defensive tanks in the game since being fully defensive means lower dps output and a big drop on the hate list solely based on the numbers to other plate tanks. So, "best defense", not really paladin can reach same numbers, "best dps", clearly not and we all know that (our sk reaches 20k on most days), "best aggro", this is obvious enough. So where does this all leave us, we can't dps high enough to be taken on raids just on that basis, we lose aggro to other tanks just like that and to get it back we end up using abilities which im certain are not meant to be used in such cases.Im sorry, but people who have said that the aggro is not an issue when tanking alongside another tank (crusaders for example) fully raid buffed i just find it hard to believe. Moreover, the dire need for us to depend so much on other classes to buff us up is not right. All we ask is that our own inherent hate gain be fixed so that we don't have to rely on our snaps whenever we lose aggro. In a nutshell, make us the defensive tanks which we should be to begin with.Furthermore, I know some crusaders will try to counter this but frankly i don't care. I do not go into your threads and say that crusaders are too great and they should be nerfed etc. Im just concerned about the class i have been playing for almost 6 years.

SailorOrion

03-08-2010, 08:33 AM

If the OT Pally rips aggro from the MT Guard, then tell the Pally to switch Amends off or learn how to work with them and who to amend.I fail to see the point here. I do not have single target aggro issues on my Guard. I didn't have issues in TSO, and I expect I won't have them in TSF (not done too much there, because she's an alt). AOE aggro is a different story at times, but that's basically an irrelevant point for the MT position. And yes, you need to hit snap abilities here and there. If the wizzy hits a double attack fusion 5 seconds into the fight, you 1) let him die so that he learns to ramp up DPS and/or 2) hit one of the many snap abilities that are at your disposal.Ardra

wardman

03-09-2010, 02:07 PM

Something i keep seeing here. You are complaining about not being able to hold normal aggro when your crusader is using spells that are part of his "snap aggro" aresenal. Maybe if the crusaders are using their snap aggro tools we should have to use our snap aggro tools to get it back. No matter how you reword this problem its the same result everytime. If your crusaders are not using these tools then you are just [Removed for Content]. Goes straight back to, if the crusaders dont use theirs, we wont need ours. But with the "dps" they can get using theirs why should they not use them. In that matter why not tell everyone in the raid which high damage spells they cant use so you can tank. I think you would be replaced fast as a MT if you tell your raid which spells they are not allowed to use. Lets try to keep this discussion on an apples to apples comparison.If Sony wanted us to be the only choice for MT position they would not have just put all the crusaders in warrior gear. Our AA's are the only thing seperating us as taking better hits. Crusaders can out dps us, they can get a higher shield effectiveness, they have awesome AoE snap aggro tools, and they can even match our hps now. If the OT healers can keep them up and they do not turn the mobs in a way that kills the raid you are just a glory hound. The MT is not the only person killing these mobs wether it is a warrior or crusader. A raid is a team, there is no I in team. If you need some practice with your OT i suggest you do a few instances together. This can show him what he should not be doing in a group setting and could help him on future raids. Really sounds to me that you are lacking communication with your OT. I wonder if you set up an order to use the snap aggro tools on mem-wiping mobs or if every tank wastes theirs at the same time. Have every tank on your raid use a raid macro saying they have hit their snap aggro tools and most of your problem will go away. If you have the same communication with your healers I bet your repair bills get pretty high.For the record, I am a 90 Guardian. He has always been my main. He has always been the guilds MT. If I see someone better suited for the raids success chance i pass MT to them. Stop pointing the finger at sony to make you great. Greatness can be achieved if you check your ego at zone in. Enough rambling for now Good luck in your future raids.

Landiin

03-09-2010, 04:10 PM

Dude they are pulling agro from DPS alone.. can you not fkn' read? Yea I guess 95% of the guard community don't know a thing huh?

Couching

03-09-2010, 06:20 PM

In encounters without adds during the fight, if OT gets the aggro, let OT tank. No big deal. There is no need to waste snap tools.However, there is a balance problem of crusaders; they can have max dps potential without sacrificing their survivability.The shield mechanic needs a change. It didn't make sense to have same amount of uncontested avoidance in both stances.Shield should only offer uncontested avoidance when the plate tanks are in defensive stance. With this change, no body can keep max dps potential and survivability at same time.

Lyrus

03-09-2010, 08:08 PM

...................Just checking............Oh well, guess im back to the forums of the class i must now play to keep my sanity.

thial

03-10-2010, 08:57 PM

First of all I'm not going to say things are fine the way they are but its an improvement over tso, there are still some adjustments I belive need to be made which I will save for /feedback.Secondly I see some guards still not specing str 3 and I ask why? Sure the hate gain is nota in raid but 30% base to taunts do the math that can be 200-300 tps per taunt so why not spec it? Crit and double attack are easily caped with out maxing those AA's also shield block = agro when you have aggressive nature and a shield so why not max aggressive nature and sta 3? Seriously I dont think some of the guards relise what the SF changes to taunts really did, even some of the better geared/experienced guards. Hold the line and aggresive nature are a guards highest threat generation so anything that will boost these is a must IE grandmaster HTL and 30% base taunt. For short 25-30 second fights dw o-stance is the way to go but for anything that is going to last over a min sword and board with the proper AA's is the way to go.Call me a noob flame me what ever just remember I'm not the one complaining that I have to use snaps to keep agro off of other fighters, I do have to keep a good ca/taunt rotation going but resorting to snaps na I save them for the true dps, and hey if you need to tell your OT or other tanks on raid to watch there agro than do so if they don't listing than I hope your raid leader has enough respect for you and an understanding of guards to back you up. Everyones situation is different though, not everyone has competent raid members. Good luck.

Lyrus

03-11-2010, 09:07 PM

rabid.pooh

04-27-2010, 07:31 PM

I MT, and I deal with the OT sometimes stealing agro but usually 95% of the time the mob is on me. With vicious concerto the Sk will almost always pull agro because he's DPS spiking which is totally cool.I run two sets of gear DPS and Tank, when we are working on progression I'm totally tank and so is the SK (and other tanks), very little agro ripage happens here. When we are coasting through the zone I'm totally DPS, the healers can handle it no problem. If a tougher mob comes up, I'll swap in a shield or go into my level 5 deffensive stance for a bump in mitigation.As a tank I feel I owe it to the raid to do more than just be a "meatshield". It's to hit that balance between survivablity and DPS, the faster the mobs dies the quicker you get through the zone, and to those aims I'm constantly switching out gear as we progress through the zone. I'm usually around 2k less dps than the SK, however when his group hits a good that gap can really spike.As it was said before the 3rd ability in the STR line is great to have, 30% base to taunts and 10% hate if your coercer is feeling greedy and taking that hate xfer/potency buff for himself on the trash :p.

Captain Apple Darkberry

05-01-2010, 01:11 PM

<cite>Couching@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>However, there is a balance problem of crusaders; they can have max dps potential without sacrificing their survivability.The shield mechanic needs a change. It didn't make sense to have same amount of uncontested avoidance in both stances.Shield should only offer uncontested avoidance when the plate tanks are in defensive stance. With this change, no body can keep max dps potential and survivability at same time.</blockquote>Here is the crust on the pie...Guard: Defense, or DPS. A choice has to be made.Crusader: Amazing DPS with near if not equal defense as a Guard has in defensive stance. With no choice needing to be made and no loss incured.Imbalanced? Yes.Troll on SK's...troll on...

Carthr

05-03-2010, 10:16 AM

Put hate positions on taunts!! Atleast then they'd be worth something, because right now a little 5k taunt does jack compared to an auto attack DAing for 15-20k

arksun

05-03-2010, 12:27 PM

<blockquote><cite>Couching@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>However, there is a balance problem of crusaders; they can have max dps potential without sacrificing their survivability.The shield mechanic needs a change. It didn't make sense to have same amount of uncontested avoidance in both stances.Shield should only offer uncontested avoidance when the plate tanks are in defensive stance. With this change, no body can keep max dps potential and survivability at same time.</blockquote></blockquote>No matter how you look at it, this is the problem right here. The dev's know what is wrong now to see how they implement a fix or a change.

lik

05-04-2010, 12:04 AM

<cite>Digg@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote><cite>Couching@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>However, there is a balance problem of crusaders; they can have max dps potential without sacrificing their survivability.The shield mechanic needs a change. It didn't make sense to have same amount of uncontested avoidance in both stances.Shield should only offer uncontested avoidance when the plate tanks are in defensive stance. With this change, no body can keep max dps potential and survivability at same time.</blockquote></blockquote>No matter how you look at it, this is the problem right here. The dev's know what is wrong now to see how they implement a fix or a change.</blockquote>Its been over a year.. Just how long can you hold your breath? /T-bag the dev team.......

Yimway

05-04-2010, 03:59 PM

I have 0 confidence in the dev team (thats a joke, more like THE class dev) being able to actually fix guards and/or balance aggro.As a raid MT, you just have to accept a crusader playing his toon is going to wrip from you, the only way they are not going to rip it is if they just target themselves everytime their aggro meter reaches 80.It is just simple fact, the paladin (without amends) will get aggro unless he chooses to significantly meter his play.I've said it many times before, and I said it repeatedly in beta. Too much of our aggro potential is reliant on us taking damage. As we get more gear and become better tanks we take less hits. So as we get better at survivability we actually get worse at aggro. Plain and simple this is sloppy design that needs some remedy.However, there is a snowball's chance in hell of SoE doing anything, so either suck it up and deal with it or re-roll a new fighter class.

Landiin

05-04-2010, 05:01 PM

Guess we can all just email the class dev once every Friday with the words FIX GUARDIAN THREAT. Maybe they'll get tried of it and fix us, or spam filters us or delete the guardian class. Either way it'll be better then now <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

lik

05-04-2010, 11:04 PM

The class sucks, Now that that is said. Anyone selling a BG's geared SK or Pally? BG's is a Blast, or at least it could be if one had a viable toon too play. what a joke.underqualified (<a title="Appendix:Glossary" href="/wiki/Appendix:Glossary#comparable">comparative</a> more underqualified, <a title="Appendix:Glossary" href="/wiki/Appendix:Glossary#comparable">superlative</a> most underqualified)<div><table width="100%"><tbody><tr><td width="33%" valign="top" bgcolor="#f8f8ff">Positiveunderqualified</td><td width="1%"> </td><td width="33%" valign="top" bgcolor="#f8f8ff"><a title="Appendix:Glossary" href="/wiki/Appendix:Glossary#comparable">Comparative</a>more underqualified</td><td width="1%"> </td><td width="33%" valign="top" bgcolor="#f8f8ff"><a title="Appendix:Glossary" href="/wiki/Appendix:Glossary#comparable">Superlative</a>most underqualified</td></tr></tbody></table></div><ol><li>Lacking the suitable <a title="qualification" href="/wiki/qualification">qualifications</a> for a particular job. That you MR Guardian DEV guy..... just saying.</li></ol>

Rahatmattata

05-05-2010, 01:09 AM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>However, there is a snowball's chance in hell of SoE doing anything, so either suck it up and deal with it or re-roll a new fighter class.</blockquote>It's fun to fight on the forums and stuff, but really it just comes down to this. It's a shame crusaders aren't fun to play or I'd level one up. I've been messing around with a zerker when I'm not playing Battlefield Bad Company 2. Guardians are actually pretty decent IMO. I mean... they are probably the crappiest plate tank vs anything except a single mob that can hit you regularly for 50% of your HP, but they are fun to play for the most part. I just think the game has become way too easy all around and I probably play about 8 hours a week now. Versus 40+ hours every week for a few years. Maybe I'm just losing interest in MMOs, but I don't think so. I'm hoping FF14 doesn't suck and isn't an easy mode, solo quest crap fest, because I really enjoyed FF11.

Shorcon

05-08-2010, 09:06 PM

<cite>Humayon wrote:</cite><blockquote>I know it has been said many a times but i will say it again, fix the aggro issues and sort out the defense/parry stats in the new expansion.First, the aggro issues, im sick and tired of having to use snap aggro everytime i have a pally or sk on the OT duty. I cannot ask them not to play their class but seriously this is not right at all. Even with full reversal threat (which by the way is a real dissappointment) you lose hate to crusaders far too easily and i have seen it happen many times that once i have used all of my snaps i just sit there and watch my threat drop from high 80s to 50s in a matter of seconds. No way in the world i can grab aggro back with conventional means, i.e. taunts or dps (which is a joke). Crusaders constantly hit 18-20+k mark in raid dps and we are still stuck at 11-12k barrier which only comes through by foregoing our defesne and resorting to dual wield. A vital question arises here, what do you want the guardians to use as their primary means of generating hate, dps or taunts be it passive or active ones? Because frankly either way is not effective. The one thing i used to take pride in was our single target aggro which is just not there anymore. You are happily going along when you see that your OT just on the bases of his/her dps and some passive procs peels it away.I had high hopes from the new expansion but now everytime i log in to play im pushed back more and more everyday and eventually may even stop playing the game. Do not quote me out of context here, im not saying that just because it is tough im talking about quitting, it is just that its an unfair reality which seriously takes the main element of this game out which is fun. Worrying about keeping aggro from your fellow tank is mostly the main concern on raids these days, i hardly get to enjoy the named bosses or their scripts during fights.Secondly, im certain others have noticed this as well but the defense stat is not working properly. I have checked my ACT many times and everytime im amazed to see how the mob hits you regardless of how much defense you have.So to sum up, by in game definition, guardians lead from the front, take hits like no other and still survive in battle. Or from what i usually thought of as: Single target defensive tanks excelling in melee skills. The previous statement is only a statement right now and far from being a reality.Combine all of this with loot tables which are pretty odd and you have a recipe for annoying many players. Crusaders can do our job better than us being as MT, include berserkers and you have covered the single/multi target fights, this leaves brawlers and surprisingly even they have better aggro than us, so where does this leave us? We can't dps high enough to match any of the aforementioned classes, defensively might be on par if it was working properly and surely people don't take us on board to look good in shiny armor.We are not asking for much here, little tweaks can fix these problems. Starting from fixing our own inherent hate gain would be a great idea for example.EDIT: Please do not "nerf" or kill other classes just to make us feel better. Come up with a novel solution.</blockquote>God I wish they would.