Look at the brigand class please. [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

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Mascouti

03-04-2010, 02:14 AM

We are far behind in single target dps. DoM is just flawed. Tonight on AB in Labsx4 was able to complete 3 out of 37. With combat lag just was not possible to complete anymore than that. When it takes 3 secs per ca and you need to cast 8 in 11.2 secs, just not possible. Brigands are seriously underpowered compared to a few other classes who for the most part doubled there dps output. Double up also sucks when there is lag, it just doesnt go off at all or only double ups 1 ca if your lucky.Dont even feel like playing this class most of the time anymore.Its not so much the class like dareena has said. I think these 2 abilities need to compensate for the lag, and allow us more time to use them.

Dareena

03-04-2010, 11:21 AM

I agree with your issues that DoM can be touchy due to effects outside of your control. The same goes for Double Up. (And don't even get me started on the subject about how certain abilities can break the DoM chain.) But having said all of that... You're on AB, one of the two worst lag hell servers, and you're complaining about lag? That's like moving to Alaska and complaining about the cold. If you're frustrated because your class isn't functioning well due to crazy lag (which we can all empathize them at one point or another), then don't blame your class. Do something about your lag. Some times it's just that your current zone is kind of full and it's causing some zone wide lag back wash. But in your case, I'd suggest that you move servers if you want a more lag free environment.

Bakasen

03-12-2010, 02:55 PM

As another AB player I do find your statement a tiny bit offensive. Yes, we have crazy population and that leads to lag. But untill SOE decideds that they should start moveing guilds wholesale around to the less populated servers, it's going to be something that a raiding brigand has no controll over.Thus would be nice if some of our VERY time depenant abilitys compesated a bit. Telling a raider to stop whineing and go to a ghost town if they want the game to play correctly is not very productive. Double up and DoM were intersting ablitys, but have always had the down side of being VERY timing dependant. I'm not necessarly calling for a complete overhaul of short term buffs, but it does bear looking at.

Dareena

03-12-2010, 04:00 PM

<cite>Bakasen wrote:</cite><blockquote>As another AB player I do find your statement a tiny bit offensive. Yes, we have crazy population and that leads to lag. But untill SOE decideds that they should start moveing guilds wholesale around to the less populated servers, it's going to be something that a raiding brigand has no controll over.Thus would be nice if some of our VERY time depenant abilitys compesated a bit. Telling a raider to stop whineing and go to a ghost town if they want the game to play correctly is not very productive. Double up and DoM were intersting ablitys, but have always had the down side of being VERY timing dependant. I'm not necessarly calling for a complete overhaul of short term buffs, but it does bear looking at.</blockquote>Compared to AB and Nagafen, every other EQ2 server is a ghost town. But as I've covered in countless threads in both the Trial and New Players forums, the server situation is completely under your own control. Now if you didn't realize that going in and listened to all of the propaganda that the rest of the game is abandoned (which I feel is a load of bull), then you have my sympathy.Having said that, people crowd onto AB like rats onto a sinking ship. It really doesn't matter if the ship is sinking or not. The point is that people still exhibit this psychological pattern. As a result of intentionally over loading their own server, they have inflicted a load of lag on themselves and their fellow AB players. This may not have been a concious or melicious choice, but things are what they are.Now Nagafen does have some cause to complain about their server lag since they're the only PvP server that isn't a Station Exchange server. If things get too bad, they don't have another PvP server to move to. So I can feel for them getting stuck in a tough situation. I've always felt that EQ2 was a purely PvE focused game and that PvP people would always get the shaft here, but doesn't alter the fact that the PvP players have gotten dealt a tough hand to play.Look. I'm not saying that the Brigand class is perfect or doesn't need some work. I'll happily agree and have meaningful conversations about this. But focusing the balance on a class due to the abberant lag issues of two servers (while the rest of the servers operate decently) is just messed up.I've always felt that playing on AB is like getting a promotion in a corporation that hinges around voluntarily cutting off one of your hands. Your life will be so much easier with the increased income and opportunities of your elevated job position. But at the same time, you have to deal with the difficulties of living your life with only one hand. This intentional disability which the person has inflicted on themselves comes with many benefits and drawbacks. Each person has to decide what is most important to them and make the appropriate choices. But you can't have the best of both worlds and not get something bad in the equation. Life just doesn't work that way.

Turb

03-21-2010, 06:15 PM

The lag is on all servers.We killed Oxdaxius x4 in Highlands and CA lag was like 3 secs... terrible for timing/dance of metal etc.What irks me is that swashies are the AE class, yet they get access to DoM too. It would help us as the single target 'specialists' if DoM were brigand only.

Tanlliel

04-02-2010, 11:00 PM

<cite>Mascouti wrote:</cite><blockquote>We are far behind in single target dps. DoM is just flawed.</blockquote>DoM is swashy too btw, they are just waiting for 80% of Brigs to betray then they will cancel the class and give the dispatch debuff to Coungy's.UpdateAssassins will get our band of useless thugs, hopefully. Our range skills will be offered to all classes who will quite rightly decline, then will also be forced on coungy's to improve their wantedness. Thieves guild buff will be given to bards, to buff them selves, as a bard has no chance of getting a brig in their raid group and bards now out dps brigs. The brigs usefull stuff like Smuggle will be given to all scouts, and all other classes on a new collection cloak.Amazing reflexes will now be a conjy buff and will not be amazing as it was when it was usefull in the KoS expansion.Black looking brigand class armour will now be available to swashys too, so they can look mean and actually be mean too.Assassins will have their choice of any brigand ability and reject them as they may fill their hotbars with fluff and nonsnse.Rangers will just laugh at brigand abilities while grabbing the smuggle ability, wishing they had the swashy/brig tree and could fd rather than real death.Any other brigand abilities can be picked up as collections on the starting zone and will scale up with level.

DngrMou

04-10-2010, 09:59 AM

<cite>Tetley@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote> bards now out dps brigs.</blockquote>As a swash, I'll admit that rogues have problems that need to be addressed...but statements like the bolded bit are not doing the cause any good. If you're being out dps'ed by bards, you need to look at your gear, the way you play, and take a more active approach in group makeup, and buffs that might, or should, be available to you.

Trawe

05-15-2010, 05:07 PM

brigs need much more love than dom time enhanced.

Lethe5683

05-15-2010, 08:26 PM

You can't cite lag as a reason for something being flawed. The problem is the lag not your class, not DoM. Casting 8 CAs in 11 seconds should be incredibly easy, even 8 in 8 seconds would be easy when it takes less than a second to cast most CAs (that's including recovery time).

Bloodclaws

05-16-2010, 01:50 PM

As far as bards are concerned, (well dirges anyway), thier myths give them the ability to be super parsing beasts. So don't get down on yourself if you are getting outparsed by an especially well geared dirge. The ability to inflict 100% melee dmg is insane. All you need as a dirge is a high dps mod. Haste helps as well. With a high dps mod, as a dirge, you are going to wreck the parse just by auto attacking.To the OP, 3 sec per CA? That is f'ing sad. You can't blame your inability to complete a DoM on duration limitation. You need a faster connection. You're lag issue is the problem, not the duration of DoM.Also, IMHO, rogues are by far the most gear/buff dependent of the scouts, as far as dps goes. Good gear will triple your parse. Sweet buffs will double that. Its just the way of things for us rogues, we need buffs to parse like beasts. I assure you, guys like brokensword are walking around with 150+ dps and haste mods, additionally, they are are recieving the primo buffs for every raid. This is the only way to parse like an insane beast. Sucks but it is true. Pred's can parse high with or without buffs. Unfortunately for us, they are always selected for buffs before us usually. So the strong get stronger on the parse board.The best thing you can do, to attract more buffs as a brig, is to establish a great attack order that works for you. Additionally, never, never, NEVER, miss an auto attack. When you can raise your parse, without recieving any buff love, the raid leaders will notice, and you'll start to recieve some love in the buff department eventually. Keep on plugging.Lastly, yes swashies are easy mode dps. Yes they currently have the potential to out parse us, especially on group pulls. Additionally, they are in most cases out parsing brigs on single pulls as well. All buffs and gear being equal, it is my opinion that this is the biggest problem with our class. I rarely get outparsed by a swash on a single pull, but this isn't the norm for most I guess. In my opinion, there should be next to no chance of a swash outparsing a brig in a single mob pull, all else equal. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Swash = uber sweet monster beef temp buffs. Brig = uber suck mode sh*t temp buffs. In addition to that, they get one more than us. All we really need is another temp buff that doesn't suck. Like a 100% proc chance on pirate stab for like 10 sec for example.Sorry for the wall of babble.

eldred1975

05-25-2010, 11:10 AM

My main is a brigand on AB ...and yes the lag can be crazy here...but I dont want to hear about how crapy brig DPS is, that is BS! I would start looking at who is playing the brig. If you would like to see what a brig can do for DPS group with Mune.

Bloodclaws

05-26-2010, 01:01 PM

<cite>eldred1975 wrote:</cite><blockquote>My main is a brigand on AB ...and yes the lag can be crazy here...but I dont want to hear about how crapy brig DPS is, that is BS! I would start looking at who is playing the brig. If you would like to see what a brig can do for DPS group with Mune.</blockquote>The OP believes that brig dps is poop. He is obviously wrong on this and you are right. When played properly, especially with good gear and buffs, brigs can parse quite high. I am simply stating that it is much easier to parse high with a swash than a brig. We have to work at it. All they have to do is turn on hurricane and pop temps. Easy mode. I am not disagreeing with you. I just think that we should be given another tool to equalize things in the temps department with the swash.

Blaqjack

06-13-2010, 09:50 PM

I am usually number 1 or 2 on our zone wide raid parses. Sometimes I can fall to 3, but not often. I love the brigand class. Could we use some lovin? Sure...what class other than crusader doesn't?Blaqjack~

EasternKing

06-14-2010, 01:00 AM

Upir

06-21-2010, 03:03 AM

<cite>Bloodclaws wrote:</cite><blockquote>Assassins can parse high with or without buffs....</blockquote>I fixed it for you... np, you're welcome

Jeckyl

08-20-2010, 05:03 PM

chirp chirp, any response from a Dev would be appreciated, are Brigs going to get some love?

Flobdeth

08-21-2010, 10:03 AM

<cite>Jeckyl@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>chirp chirp, any response from a Dev would be appreciated, are Brigs going to get some love?</blockquote>I'm doubting they even check this section <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" />

Mikhail

08-21-2010, 03:09 PM

well just read on EQ2Wire theres some talk about changes to Rangers/Illies/Monks. does soe really hate us that much or are they just not tellin us about all the awsome things were gonna get? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" />in either case a dev responce would be much appreciated

Treznet

08-21-2010, 03:58 PM

Brigs have not got any attention for years, unless you count nerfs. Anything we have been given is completely horrible, thieves guild still is one of the biggest slaps in the face. First they start giving other classes lots of debuffs and then they give us an ability to make people better at our supposed job. Thugs are still completely worthless and have been forever with no change. Also We have the worst self buffs and temp buffs of all dps scouts. Finally our aoe dps is comepletely aweful, I never wanted to have swash aoe dps but they have our single target dps so I dont see another solution. These issues used to not be as big of a problem when we had AR that prevented all aoes and not just some, and our debuffs used to matter more. Things have changed we are no longer the great debuffing class of our past. We need attention just as much as gaurds/illy/ranger but there are so few of us left that the brig classes continues to slip through the cracks

Mikhail

08-21-2010, 11:22 PM

i completly agree Treznet, our temps are measly our perma's are equally horrible, the original TG sucked the red adorned TG is even worse to be honest first of all a buff that doesnt even go on tanks with the exception of SKs but then its still only 5% which is no better then a regular 5% dehate which does nothing. we are no longer unique in the fact that everyone has significant mit debuffs now, i took Thugs off my hotbar long ago and our AE DPS does suck as well but then again our AE isnt supposed to be that great anyway so i can live with that. and i dont kno bout yall but i also stopped using Shenanigans, it either never poped or it did and i go splat.for any devs now reading this here are some possible ideas that i would not be against and any brigs still alive in this channel please feel free to add to/comment on these ideas1. Fix AR so that it works ALL the time2. Change Thugs so that its either a regular CA be it an encounter dmg or make it so that the thugs dont die on AEs and actually parse a lil3. Enhance our current DPS and Haste temps and/or add a temp that maybe procs dmg like swashies Inspired Daring or zerkers Rampage4. Change TG to a somewhat useful buff to put on others or a REGULAR transfer like a swashies/assassins 19% transfer or maybe make it into a new perma buff for Brigs.5. More FLURRY for brigs. we are supposed to be one of the top DPS for single targets but we are not. adding an inate FLurry to our buffs would help greatly.Again my fellow brigs feel free to comment on this and i hope that maybe we can have a civilized discussion, quite honestly im tired of the rage posts which do not really help

Kaja

08-22-2010, 08:08 AM

<cite>Mikhail@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>i quite honestly im tired of the rage posts which do not really help</blockquote>I have posted to try and get Brigands some attention since KOS, i have been in every expansion beta since then.I have posted civily, i have posted pages of contructive information and feedback.you think maybe, just maybe that in 4 years of nothing peoples patience might just be a tad thin now?People are raging because they have tried for YEARS to get some attention, and have done so through the correct channels and in the totally correct manner. and got zip for it.I hope in 4 years time, now you have just started trying to get fix's for the class, that if you get treated the same way, you can recall your call to play nice.Sadly only when people rage, and rage collectively do the Devs sit up and take notice, polite feedback and requests = ignored, not pressing, people arent angry about them / it yet, we can leave off touching that for now then.Look at rangers, 4+years of trying to be nice, finally they all start mass betraying to Assassins and raging all over the forums, and voila Ranger fix's are incoming.So good luck playing nice.

Mikhail

08-22-2010, 03:01 PM

I understand ya on that Kaja i havent been a brig since launch but ive been raidin one since RoK and since then ive seen civilized posts and ive seen rage posts my patience is going thin as well but as much as i wanna punch a dev im repressing that with what little hope i have left that SoE will finally stop givin us the red headed step child title. ill never betray because i love the class too much but i would love to have everything thats broken fixed and im hopeing if we can revive this dead forum that maybe soe may start payin attention to it

lazlo1

08-23-2010, 01:22 PM

It is a sad time for brigands. Been playing this class a long time but its getting much less fun. Losing/tieing to swashies on single targets and getting totally owned on group encounters is hard so take. With all the group encounters in SF I dont even like to group anymore. I feel im just a burden to a good group. Note I have very good gear mostly T3 and 132+ dps Daggers, so I dont see it getting better. Whoever says they are 1-2 on raid wide parse must be in a scrub guild. And yes Dirges are close to brig dps now. The only scout we beat is a troub. On a few just the right length single target encounters brigs can pop a good parse. But zonewide we get owned by most dps classes.

Treznet

08-24-2010, 03:40 PM

<cite>Blaqjack wrote:</cite><blockquote>I am usually number 1 or 2 on our zone wide raid parses. Sometimes I can fall to 3, but not often. I love the brigand class. Could we use some lovin? Sure...what class other than crusader doesn't?Blaqjack~</blockquote>Something is seriously wrong with your raidforce if you are toping zw. I cant see how you can play a brig and not see we are quiet flawed in compairison to almost all other classes, besides the few others that are in the same boat as us. We have by far the lowest aoe damage of the dps scouts, even the other so called single target dps classes (wiz/assassin) have pretty big aoe damage potential. We are extremely buff and gear dependant. Our self and temp buffs are near worthless and outdated. If all those handicaps were not bad enough we are a fast cast class with 2 abilities (DoM/Double up) that have seconds to be completed or lose large dps hits. All Dots that have stuns/slows/stifles on them effect us the most because every second we lose kills our dps much more than the big hit classes. This was the reason our class was given AR in the first place, but AR doesnt prevent all aoes even if its up. Well at least we have our debuffs, but now our debuffs have very small benifits. Most other classes have loads of debuffs also and the only thing we can do is cast thieves guild on them so they can better debuff the mob instead of us. So where does that leave the brig class? We have no idenity, we are a class that has no group benifit, no hate transfer, the lowest damage potential, no utility,and very small if any benifit to the raid in debuff form.That being said I still raid as a brigand, If I am well buffed I hold my own on single target mobs but Im right beside classes that can blow me away on anything multi mob. In lower end raiding our flaws arent as obvious. If your guild is mass pulling trash and no one joust aoes , you will be be no where near the top of a zw. sk/pally, assassin/ranger, wiz/war, conj/nec all can out damage you with mass pulls on trash. If you want another expansion with new abilites like theives guild and aa's to enhance thugs keep talking like that. We are not a horrible class yet but we are on the verge of being what the conj/necros were in tso.

Jeckyl

08-24-2010, 05:34 PM

Amazing Reflexes- change back to constantly on, wishing = prevent knockback, zone wide aoe prevention procDispatch= ability to Stun Epic mobs T Swipe= ability to Silence Epic mob for a nice duration, make it long recast but an efficient anti mage debuffCornered = aoe debuff with knockdown vs any and up to 8 mobsbuffing our dps, at least single target, and Dance of Metal is ok but hell when flying all over the screen from knockbacks and the stifles as mentioned before ruins a lot of chances I have using it.OP? idc, but unless we get somthing Huge then I would say time for the good ole SOE ez fix bye swinging the Nerf bat at all other classes debuffs <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Apiar

08-24-2010, 05:47 PM

Interestingly enough, I started playing this game in March this year. I rolled an assasin and changed at level 10 due to a friend saying brigs were good. I regret that decision every day I log in. Brigs are great to solo with. Then I hit 80 and something did not feel right. DPS dropped compared to other classes. The AA trees have very few good boxes so most brigs have eactly the same spec. Then I hit 90 and was ready to run the mark dungeons. Days of spamming for groups went by with no return answers. When a person would spam for DPS I would send a tell and the reply I got more often then not was "you are not a DPS class." Very true when all the pulls in the SF dungeons are multiple mobs making aoe classes desirable. Warlocks, wiz, bards, sins, ill/coer, healers, and tanks have no issues getting groups for these.So then I get stuck in a place that is difficult to get out of. To get better DPS, I need better gear. To get better gear, I need to obtain marks or get dungeon drops. My mark runs have become the daily quest or the guild group that decides they want to rip through a couple of dungeons in 45 mins. At this rate, I will never get the gear and will probably leave to Rift or Star Wars sicne I am behind the curve.With that, I am new to this game, and have no emotional attachment to the brig. The brig is a broken class. Every class has debuffs, which is what I thought the brigs were specialized in. Double up and DoM are broken mechanics requiring you to not miss a beat to up DPS. Thieves guild is a worthless add on and really should be a self buff of some sort that puts the brigs with the same types of self buffs other scouts get. The pets go down in seconds and are worthless. I have a pally at 77 and a conji at 66 and enjoy playing them more. Hell, I even play my friends 90 bruiser which I find quite fun. The brig class just isn't fun. I'm actually thinking of leveling my assasin again to have fun and be able to raid.

Geothe

08-24-2010, 08:26 PM

With the new offhand mechanics changes, Brigs will be falling even farther behind in DPS compared to the other DPS scouts, and coupled with the fact that our debuffs really bring absolutely nothing at all to raids any more since debuff cap is so easily reached with the mit debuffs all other classes seem to have now, it leaves brigs really hurting.Already we are lower DPS then Swashies on Single Target fights, and even worse on AE encounters.Now image how that spread will worsen with offhand weapons AE autoattacking for Swashies as well.Brigs NEED to be higher DPS on Single target mobs than Swashies, and we aren't even close now.One possible solution: Swashies get large AE autoattack from Hurricane, increase brig single target DPS by adding Flurry to our self buff Street Smarts (like 15-20% at t9 master version). With the incoming offhand mechanic changes, that should bring us up closer to damage on single targets with Swashies.Asking for AR to be 100% will never happen, the fact that it doesn't drop on damage now is a good change, and I honestly cant see anything else happening with it.Thieves Guild: Utterly useless, increase someone else's mit debuffs when our own debuffs are already useless? /rolls eyes. I'm not really sure what else to do with it, but as it stands now, it has zero use. Perhaps make it a temp buff (Additional damage proc/reuse speed buff combo or somethign along those lines).But in general, Brigs need a BIG single target DPS boost to even have a chance of staying close to Swashies, let alone Assassins/Rangers. The fact that we have "debuffs" can no longer be used as a justification for Brigs having subpar DPS, because our debuffs server no essential role anymore, nor have they really for a few years now.

Nidy

08-24-2010, 09:43 PM

With changes on the way to the mechanics there is no better time like the present to make some changes. I am probably dreaming but I agree with most of the above posters.1. We need a self buff for flurry and it would need to be at least 15 t0 20%. It should be comparable to hurricane and its 60% ae proc going off on 2 hands now. 2. Get rid of some of our ca's. Why do we have to have 5 or 6 hot bars for the love of god. Get rid of thieves guild, band of thugs and appeal for mercy unless you are going to remove the duration and make it expire upon use with a refresh from that point. First few that come to mind.3. Make Will to Survive something useful. Its just another [Removed for Content] attack from the back. This could be our one item that benefits the group. Possibly does the damage to the mob and applies hp's to the group. Not a life tap but actual top end hits.Another idea would be to damage the mob and add potency to the group. I have read many ideas for this one and quite a few were good ones. This just needs to be something that will benefit our group. Something that makes people say we want the brigand in our group. (I am not sure my ideas accomplish that but you get the point)4. Brigand aa tree. How about a double up mod. When it has 5 points in this aa it extends the double up duration by 1 second total. (.2 per point)5. How about an aa to allow us some reach. Brigs have to stand up a mobs a** to hit it.6. Dance of metal. How about an aa that allows one more hit plus 2 seconds more time at max or allows a bonus to each hit to spike our single target dps over a swash along with the extended time. This could be placed in the SF line in the brigand tree. Replace Help for the merciful or detect weakness.7. How about cutting back on the [Removed for Content] debuffs you gave every other class. I understand having options so not to depend only on a brigand but not to the extent of making the brigand extinct. We are supposed to cripple a mobs defenses, everyone else should weaken the mob at their best. Review the stacking of the other classes debuffs.Nidy90 Brigand MistmooreYa I know, #7 is more of a rant then helpful but [Removed for Content].

Kaja

08-25-2010, 03:44 AM

I know one change Easternking proposed in previous beta's.Dispatch ...Brigands are supposed to cripple a mobs defences, well other than mitigation what does a raid mob use for defense? ...Damage shields.His idea was Dispatch strips the Damage shield for the duration, one simple change that once again would make a brigands debuff capacity useful, make it so it has immunity timer so you cant stack multiple brigs, but basically once a min you get the full duration of Dispatch with no damage shield. mobs can recast their DS as a self buff, ala Levi.Dps, Brigands need more single target.Self buffs, they need either haste or DPS mod adding to a current self buff, all the other dps scouts get one of the 2.Short term buffs, they need either a combined Crit bonus/Potency buff with a fairly short recast (2mins), they need either Flurry or AoE auto, Flurry would be preferable.AA changes : Reach is a good one someone posted above, enhance DU was another, either its duration or its recast, but recast would have to be drastic like a 50% reduction at max points, otherwise it would just mess up the only good part of Brigands CA rotations.AR : needs to be total immunity to ALL aoes when it is up, not 70% of them because Devs code them to ignore AOE block skills.Making Traumatic Swipe be totally useless was another huge mistake, there used to be some skill involved in keeping the hardest mobs swiped, and gave rogues some desireability outside of their dps contributions.Debuffs? these need a complete over haul, my suggestion ; seperate them from the damage dealing part of the CA's, consolidate the damage dealing CA's by 50% so we have half Damage, Half debuffs that work the same as everyone elses Debuffs : spells, they have a timer, instant refresh on fail.Mobs that strip : pratically all of them worth a [Removed for Content], 1min refresh is to long when a mob is stripping every 20~sec or so.Brigands Dots, these are useless on fights that mobs strip on, lost dps plain and simple, change them to DD abilitys with a total equalling the Dot components as they stand now.Hate Transfer : we need one.Band of Thugs : change it into a group buff, give us some of the Utility we are supposed to have,groupwide : Temp hp buff 20%-30% per person increase,groupwide : Auto attack Multiplier +5- +10 (%) base,groupwide : If Flanking or Rear, every hit has a 50% chance to drop 1 hate position, If in front has a 50% chance to increase hate by 1 position,groupwide : every Back attack(rear only) that lands increases Duration of buff by 2secs, max 5 triggers.have it cast a group wide illusion like Stampede does, changing everyone in the group into a Brigand15sec duration, 1 min refresh.Idea of Buff Discription : Band of Thugs, The Brigand imparts some of his legandary stamina to his group mates, also co ordinating their strikes to deal more damage with his knowledge of the enemys defences, the Brigand also shows how to demand the enemys attention or how to strike and fade away.That is just a rough idea i thought of now, obviously it needs some polish <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />There are so many things they could do.

Treznet

08-25-2010, 08:01 AM

<cite>Geothe wrote:</cite><blockquote>With the new offhand mechanics changes, Brigs will be falling even farther behind in DPS compared to the other DPS scouts, and coupled with the fact that our debuffs really bring absolutely nothing at all to raids any more since debuff cap is so easily reached with the mit debuffs all other classes seem to have now, it leaves brigs really hurting.</blockquote>The new changes do even further our problems. We are the only scout that will not see benifit from this change, unless we recieved a dirge or illy buff that is. Assassin will see the most benifit from flurry and aoe on offhands, because of course they need help /sarcasm off. We need a flurry self buff, we need more aoe damage.Shenanigans- Make it an intercerpt that takes 50% damage to the brig and does the CAs damage on the hit. In its current form the CA is completely useless and I still do not think it even works. The only time I can get it to trigger is solo.Beg for Mercy- Make it a buff that doesnt cancel until target takes a direct Melee attack. Give it an immunity or 5 min recast after it triggersEnhance:Batteryand Assault- Does this even do anything? With the current Aoe mechanics this seems worthless and completely outdated.The entire tactics line- this is garbage, enhance: cheap shot? Improving sneak cast time by 1 sec? what does this do for us? The only thing that isnt completely a waste is the amazing reflexes. Make this line decrease our temp buff recast and add something to them. damage proc, flurry, increase base autoattack damage. I think the rest of the big tree is compairable to what swash get in their tree. but this line stands out if you compair the 2 classes.Band of thugs- Make it a group temp buff. Proc on Ca/spell, something to make us wanted in a raid group and not just shoved in a scrub group.Thieves Guild- Im completely fine with us not having a hate transfer, thats a swash ability. There is no fix for this other than completely remove it. I dont think devs even know what to do with it. You give us a red adorn that makes this a small hate transfer? Why would a tank what increased mit debuff ability? outside an sk, so this is intended to only be usefull if we are grouped with an sk? Make it like a VC only with hate. It stores the brigs hate over a period of time and then that hate can be cast on a tank. The tank recieves a hate proc based on the amount of hate the brig aquired. This fixes our problem with not having a hate transfer.The rogue wis line- This obviously needs completely reworked. There isnt a rogue out there that would use 1 weapon. The current changes to flurry and aoe autoattack even futher make this line obsolete. Even if you removed the restriction of using 1 weapon this line would be useless. It needs changed totally.We need attention devs!!!! look at the facts.

Nidy

08-25-2010, 10:16 AM

I love the idea of redoing the tactics tree to accomplish some of the items we are asking. This seems to be the easy way to correct SOME of the problems.How about we rewrite the tactics tree for them.1. Change Remove Sneak to Enhance Double up. Takes 5 points adds .2 seconds per point at max level allows us 1 full second extra to sneak in an extra attack to double up. At lag times makes it work correctly. lol2. Change Enhance CHeap shot to Enhance DAring Advance. Takes 5 points and adds 3% flurry per point for a max 15% flurry. I think 15% is reasonable though I do NOT have any numbers to compare a swashies 60% hurricane to 15% flurry. Its possible mathwise it would need to be as higher 25% but I am tring not to be rediculous.3. CHange enhance shadow slip to enhance deceit. Adds 10% AE attack per point for a max 50% for the duration of the buff.4. change enhance evade to enhance ruthless cunning. Adds a proc for the duration of the temp buff.5. Safe house. I would rather see this ability Feign Death us rather then teleport. The rest of it stays the same. To many bad things happen when you randomly teleport.6. Enhance Amazing reflexes should also make it work on all ae's not the 70% that is currently in place. if its up its up period.Other changes:Change the Shadows Dispatch enhance to removing damage shields or lowers the auto knockback of a mob for a short duration. There is no need for an increase in the mitgation debuff.Look at the ideas for Will to Survive. No need to rehash those ideas but something that brings something to the group. I think a simply idea would be to add a percentage of HP's or Potency to the group members while the effect is up.Detect weakness changed to an enhanced dance of metal. COuple of ideas is to add 2 seconds duration and one more hit. Gives us a single target boost and a couple more seconds to actually finish it. Another option would be to add 25 % crit bonus, 25% potency ,25% accuracy and 2 seconds to increase the damage the ability to complete it and the overall damage of th streak compared to a swashy.Enhance Baattery and Assault. THe ae radius has never worked and with zonewide ae's etc will never work. How about something that allows AR to hit our group. I am sure there would have to be some limitation but the idea is sound.Need to look at Tenure also. The durations are outdated with the constant striping of raid mobs.Nidy

TheSpin

08-25-2010, 10:49 AM

Brig was my main for a long time.... now I just don't really care enogh to bother responding to this thread. Pretty sad. Ultimately I think everyone should keep in mind what a brig is 'supposed' to do (especially the Devs) and then make sure they fill that role. Brig is supposed to: 1. Do decent dps - pretty much equal to swashbuckler 2. Increase the amount of damage a group/raid inflicts on a mob (no matter the gear/status/ or makeup of the group/raid) 3. Have excellent single target soloability via stuns 4. Have the best AoE self avoidence amongst the scouts Those 4 things are in my opinion the things that make a brigand fun, and what the class is 'supposed' to be designed to do.

Apiar

08-25-2010, 01:20 PM

Quite honestly, I don't even think the devs realize what the change would do to brigs. I'm hanging mine up today after thought and the inability to get into groups. There is no discussion about how this class will be fixed. No communication in this forum.I totally agree with so many of the suggestions already posted. Tactics line is a waste but you need to waste points for AR. No one uses wisdom line and even the int line is pretty useless unless you want feign death (but you again waste points to get this one ability). Stamina line....does anyone even put points past the stamina box? I mean really....why tank with a brigand when you have 6 other classes that can tank better. Evading awareness.....useless. Shadows tree, brigand line...dispatch defense is useless in raids because mit cap is being reached. Waste of points. Plank walker should go off more often, which would help DPS.

TheSpin

08-25-2010, 01:41 PM

I would like to mention that safehouse is quite an awesome ability, one of the reasons I tried a brig in the first place. However that's only when used for pulling etc, not really as 'intended'. In raids etc the hope would be that it would allow you to stay in on some aoes with the idea that safehouse will trigger if you fail amazing reflexes and keep you in the fight, but it rarely works out for me reliably in raiding environments. Half the time when it did work everyone was so busy trying to rez me that it took em longer to figure out it was a heal I needed instead of a rez.edit: I'm not suggesting anything be done with safehouse right now... there's more important aspects of the class that need attention.

lazlo1

08-25-2010, 07:23 PM

some decent suggestions above, here is my 2cents.1. fix our broke DU and DOM CAs. This isnt an enhancemnt its a bug. 2. Thieves guild is useless. I think we need a hate transfer but i know this is a touchy subject. anything would be better than nothing. currently brigs have issues with agro while doing the worst dps and we wonder why we dont get groups.3. Will to survive is just a damage CA. Plz make it more. Something that heals/buffs the group would be inline with the name. Currently it doesnt seem to do anything.4. Thugs , Beg for Mercy need some help5. Tramtic swipe doesnt work in SF on any mob I have raided. Make it do something cool.6. Flurry / single target dps -- brigands should get alot somehow. Brigs needs to out dps swashies by a decent margin on single targets. Swashies own us zonewide because they do many X what we do on AOE fights. At least we should win single targets easily. I know we will never be close zonewide.7. AOE fights are where its at for groups. We stink at this we need something to bring to a group. Currently groups dont want a brig unless they dont care. AOE dispatch is nice but the refresh timer makes it meh for groups ripping thru content. A dramatic deduction in the refresh timer for it would help our AOE and make it much better for grouping. Make it not stack with displatch if thats a concern.8. AR needs to block everything including knockbacks. Add an SF enhancement to make it last a bit longer. Its hard to time it with AOEs because its so short. Im OK with the proc %. I know its supposed to have some risk be at least we should able to try to time in real raids.9. Is the SF dispatch enhancement a test to see who the dumb brigs are ? Plz remove this and make something useful

Malacha

08-27-2010, 01:55 AM

Nazon and Nidy both have excellent ideas. I sincerely hope they aren't ignored. Dev's seem to have been really focusing on balance lately, and brigands have long since been the quiet, ignored child in the classroom. There aren't many left in game, and alot of those that are left are tired of asking and being ignored. I wish I knew a way to really get the message across, but aside from cross-posting on every forum screaming "DEVS, LOOK AT US" I'm at a loss. You guys have been fighting this cause a long time, and I'm a fresh blood hoping that all your hard work and excellent ideas come to fruition.

Maecleod

08-27-2010, 11:37 AM

As a Brigand 1-80 (RoK) betrayed Swashy (Rok-TSO) betrayed Brigand (SF), it is blatantly obvious that a Swashy is "up-to-date" with AAs, DPS and raid usefulness (hate transfer, group-aoe prevent) while the Brigand remains stagnant. It seems to me that the Brigand class is wallowing in neglect with outdated skills, debuffs, COMPLETELY useless AA lines (Rogue - wisdom, safehouse, really?), and not to mention the annoyingly difficult temp-buff Doubleup. It's not even challenging, it's annoying and really dampens the fun-factor. I do like DoM and find it adds a nice spin to the class, but it's available to Swashys as well and is not relevant to class discussion.Suggested improvements in this thread are very well thought out and some are reasonable, while others are not so much.... We should be asking for more group/raid utility and single-target dps, more than anything else.Flurry - We need it baaad.. I'd say we need about 20% passive (with AA specs etc.) to be more single-target effective.Hate Transfer - MUCH needed for the SF raid content that requires off-tank groups and the few that require 3 fighter groups. Without hate transfer, our position in the raid is over-written by the need for a assassin and/or swash. You expect guilds to put Brigands in the mage dps group? (haha)Thugs, Thieves guild, Safehouse, Beg for Mercy - all useless and ineffective, when it comes to group/raid utility. My main point being, if you completely removed these skills you'd have the exact same class as before; no better, no worse.Amazing Reflexes - Win. I love this skill. You could improve it with a double proc (something new, eh?) that protects the entire group. A chance to proc off of the initial proc, would be something different and UNIQUE...----Just like the rangers versus assassin discussion, in a way, the Brigand class is stuck in the past. When Dispatch and survivability were useful in a raid scenario. When debuffs weren't as common and our class had a near-secured spot in a raid. The brigand class is not worthy of a raid spot, as it stands.-Mac

Nevao

08-27-2010, 06:21 PM

<cite>Nazon@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote>some decent suggestions above, here is my 2cents.1. fix our broke DU and DOM CAs. This isnt an enhancemnt its a bug. </blockquote>For what it's worth they fixed this in a recent patch. I'm not sure if it was GU57 or a different one (may have been all the way back when they did the DoM/Timework fix). Now DoM ignores Double Up (and the resultant second hits). Previously it just broke your chain and nothing cast aftewards counted.

Mikhail

08-27-2010, 08:26 PM

<cite>Nevao wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Nazon@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote>some decent suggestions above, here is my 2cents.1. fix our broke DU and DOM CAs. This isnt an enhancemnt its a bug. </blockquote>For what it's worth they fixed this in a recent patch. I'm not sure if it was GU57 or a different one (may have been all the way back when they did the DoM/Timework fix). Now DoM ignores Double Up (and the resultant second hits). Previously it just broke your chain and nothing cast aftewards counted.</blockquote>i think what he may be refering to is the fact that just a little bit of lag or a KB/Stun/Stifle etc all ruin our DoM/DU chains thus killing our DPS. yes what you mentioned was broken with DU canceling DoM but i do believe that was fixed some time ago be it GU57 or in a hotfix

nostra

08-28-2010, 04:43 PM

+1 maecloed's suggestionsNostrathalas - 90 brig Naggy

lazlo1

08-30-2010, 03:05 PM

<cite>Mikhail@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Nevao wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Nazon@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote>some decent suggestions above, here is my 2cents.1. fix our broke DU and DOM CAs. This isnt an enhancemnt its a bug. </blockquote>For what it's worth they fixed this in a recent patch. I'm not sure if it was GU57 or a different one (may have been all the way back when they did the DoM/Timework fix). Now DoM ignores Double Up (and the resultant second hits). Previously it just broke your chain and nothing cast aftewards counted.</blockquote>i think what he may be refering to is the fact that just a little bit of lag or a KB/Stun/Stifle etc all ruin our DoM/DU chains thus killing our DPS. yes what you mentioned was broken with DU canceling DoM but i do believe that was fixed some time ago be it GU57 or in a hotfix</blockquote> I havent tested that in a while so i glad to hear DU a least doesnt break DOM. But i was also talking about most of the SF CAs not working with DU or DOM. I need to restest this as I havent since I had enough AAs to get them all. Maybe that is fixed also.

Toxicz

08-30-2010, 03:57 PM

A lot of good idea's on here. I posted my list on flames... might do better on here tho.My listen would be something like: Utility: 1. Make AR a group wide proc; meaning when I proc AR the entire group gets the 5.6 sec AE immune. DPS: 1. Change the mythical proc of 15% DA, to 15% CB/flurry one of the two. 2. Change the "Improves the Brigands Professional de-buffs why 10%" on our mythical to something like weapon bonus, or a passive Flurry. 3. Change the AA "enhanced dispatch" AA to something like, a siphon, When dispatch is up we get 10-20% of either CB/Pot/Flurry. 4. Change the "Debilitating Strikes" SF AA so that it gives 10% CB to Debilitate instead of lower the targets Stam. This is my list personally... It's probably to OP, but if at least the AR and ONE of the dps changes went through i'd be happy...

Nevao

08-31-2010, 10:30 AM

My swing at the stick (from the perspective of a recent convert to the class). <ul><li>Group Utility<ul><li>Amazing Reflexes: I certainly can't take credit for it, but I definitely think the group immunity (at a lower %) would be a great addition. If that is too overpowering I would add a chance to proc a group wide knockback immunity (at a lower % than AR but higher than a group AoE immunity would be). I'd almost rather have the KB immunity but that's probably because I'm still ringing from the soccerball I was on Vulaan last night. I know the immediate thought would be avoiding AE's is better but this could help us as well with DoM and DU on those annoying fights.</li><li>Band of Thugs: Forget the Swarm Pet and instead make this a group buff that gives a chance for a group proc that improves cast/recast time. Let it stack with itself up to a certain point to get users to a 15 to 20% increase in both. Essentially I'm going for a Frenzy type effect that works better with a full group than solo.</li><li>Thieves Guild: Provided they do not change the debuff mechanics or distribution I would change this to a long-ish recast (120 seconds), short term (10 seconds) group buff that dramatically increases potency (25%) for the group. Personally I think CB would be better (so melee and casters would get full benefit) but I doubt they would do that outside of an AA. A Velious AA could then increase the length of time it was up.</li></ul></li><li>Personal Utility/Changes<ul><li>Safehouse: Restrict the target to healer and add an AoE Blocker for the Brig and the target. The number of times that I've been "saved" by Safehouse to immediately die to an AE is ridiculous. This would help even that out and shouldn't be too overpowering.</li><li>Shennagins: Take out the counter attack and make it a high damage attack with significant threat position increase (like it has now). I honestly can't think of the last time that I successfully used this when not soloing. In raids I'm typically not high enough on the hate meter for it work. I suppose it has uses in groups but again if not right on the hate meter your stuck waiting for that melee attack to happen. This change would allow it to still be situational (especially if you take the AA to increase damage / hate positions, you have to be careful or your tanking) when you're not tanking and useful for when you are. </li><li>Will to Survive: Change it to a DoT with a low mana replinsh proc for every tick. Ideal, probably not, but anythig would be PR improvement. Another varaition of this was mentioned on "the site that shall not be linked to" of making it have Varsoon Chestplate type proc if "Power over Time" is deemed too much.</li><li>Flurry: I think we all want this, I seriously doubt though we'd get it passively. I like Toxic's suggestion of changing the 15% DA off the Myth Proc to Flurry (though I imagine they would decrease the ammount some).</li></ul> </li></ul>

TheSpin

08-31-2010, 12:34 PM

I just wanted to chime in specifically on Shennanigans. It is total junk in solo and raid play. Soloing I do more damage off an auto attack and often I'm down long enough that I miss time on auto attacks and then some. Heroic content the hate increase could in theory be good, but even then its situational. Raids you die if you get hit, and you may not be on the top of the list anyway.

Treznet

08-31-2010, 11:19 PM

Im all for fixing shenanigans and all our other garbage ca's, I posted some suggestions also. But just so we're clear none of that will fix our class we need some changes to debuffs and a decent increase in single target dps. I would like some crit bonous or potency self buffs but I really think we need something that gives us an edge. Just like the classes that have aoe auto attack have an edge that the other classes cant gear or buff to compair to them. If we are to remain a single target class ( which in itself is a touchy subject ) we need something that a swash cant get a few pieces of gear and be even with us. I dont think that CB or potency would be the best way to go as those can be easily gained with gear. A good deal of flurry would be better I think. In fact we need self flurry just to keep up with the increase the other scouts would get from offhand changes. The way it stands now swash, ranger , assassin would all see increases self buffed and we would be the only dps scout to again be left even farther behind. Im still against having the bland hate transfer that other classes already have. I would rather see us increasing tanks taunts with our hate somehow or like Ive said before an ability like bards vc only ours would use hate for fighters. If we had an ability like that we could work with tanks to snap mobs back after a mem wipe and just be something different than the vanilla hate transfer thats already been done. AR group wide would be great but I dont see it happening, that would be way overpowered....or underpowered if they continue making aoes ignor AR. But overall I think most of the suggestions out there are similar. Hopefully we can get some attention out of this. Ive went through 3 expansions betas being hopeful of getting some help, I dont think I have another one in me.

nostra

09-01-2010, 10:16 AM

Shennanigans definitely needs to be fixed. It sucks that one of our hardest hitting ca's sits on the sideline because it is useless. Nos

Geothe

09-01-2010, 12:12 PM

Aye,Shennanigans is an easy change.Just make it a normal CA, non-positional. Keep the hate increase associated with it (as well as the AA to increase the hate positions), but just get rid of the reactive damage component and make it straight damage.Keep it non-positional so those Brigs that use it as a tanking tool don't have to mess with trying to get behind a mob to get it to work or anything like that. Granted, that change wont fix the issues with the class at all really, but will correct for a moronic-CA-design at least and should be a zero effort change.

Maecleod

09-01-2010, 01:56 PM

For Shenanigans I actually only use it as a positional hate increase, I don't even wait for the mob to hit me for the damage proc. I just macro'd /cancel shenanigans and hotbar'd it. lol.I agree though, it should change to a normal CA, without the fake FD.---Also check out the brigand forums on EQ2flames, Rasix the Brigand forum mod, is putting together an official list of what changes Brigands would like to see. When completed, he'll submit it to some devs to look over.

lazlo1

09-14-2010, 02:41 PM

Todays patch puts brigs even farther behind. I hope something is done soon. But judging from the Dev silence they are not planning anything for brigs.The other brig in our guild is switching mains. I am getting swash masters together for 58. But not sure im ready to betray as our guild has a 100% attendance swash. If it wasnt for the guild im in I would be so gone.

Treznet

09-14-2010, 10:57 PM

Theres too few brigs left for our voice to be heard. In the last three expansions beta pretty much the same issues were voiced. Nothing was done back then and I dont see much happening now. I really wish we just would of left summoners get our debuffs now. This last update finally made me lose all hope. Im glad that rangers finally got some help but there always seems to be a class that is more vocal than us and gets attention first.

Geothe

09-15-2010, 10:21 AM

Swashies: self buff ~50 AE autoattack (dont recall the exac value on Hurricane).Rangers: self buff 28% AE autoattack. (with AA)Assassins: self buff 15% Flurry, and 28% AE autoattack (with AA).Brigands: self buff NOTHING.HELLO?!?!And red-names see a slight issue there?!Of course not,That would require actually reading these boards.

Nidy

09-15-2010, 06:44 PM

Hurricane is 60% I beleiveBrigs are getting screwed for sure. I swear if someone says well you guys have dispatch one more time I am never using it again! Ok maybe not but you get the picture.To be fair Rangers are still screwed too. They share the same AA that gives the 28% AE so in effect assassins gained more. I am surprised (well not really) that they didn't look at the self buffs mentioned above and made some minor changes before releasing the patch.Swash 60 AEAssassin 15 flurryRanger DPSBrig NOTHING lol To quote ESPN, " COME ON MAN!"Just a little love please. Potency? Some Flurry? And since us Brigs have a heart, Something for the Rangers too.Nidy90 Brigand Mistmoore.

Geothe

09-15-2010, 09:06 PM

Suggested Changes to Brigand EoF AA lines to help with the MASSIVE disparity now present between Brigs and other DPSing scouts.All in the current "Defending" AA branch.Enhance: Street SmartsCurrently: Adds Spell Resists up to 975 at level 90.Proposed: Change from adding spell resists to adding 3% Flurry per point, for 15 Flurry total.Reasoning: Brigs are the only DPS scout that is not able to self buff AE autoattack OR flurry. When discussing the differences between brigs and swashs, it has always been "Swash for AE, Brigs for Single Target." Currently that is not the case at all, enabling Brigs to selfbuff flurry will help that be the same somewhat again. Yes, Assassins get flurry through their Myth at 15% as well, but they already have a ~30% base damage mod increase over Brigs with the innate 5% and new SF AAs, so they will still do much more autoattack DPS than brigs.Enhance: ShenanigansCurrently: Adds 1 hate position Increase and 4% base damage per point, 3 points spendable.Proposed: Keep this AA the same, however, change the actual CA itself to become a regular CA, and not a suicidal reactive. This is one of our hardest hitting CAs and we aren't even really able to use it in raids because it requires us to actually be autoattacked by the raid mob = DEAD BRIGAND. Keep the current hate position changes associated with it to still make it riskier to use in raids, and great to use for those brigs that like to tank, but just make it a non-position specific (so DPSing and Tanking Brigs can both use it) CA and no longer a reactive damage CA.Enhance: Barroom NegotiationCurrently: Improves reuse speed by 2 seconds and hit percentage by 3% per point, 5 points spendable.Proposed: Don't really need to change this one, or perhaps add 2% damage per point or something.Enhance: CussCurrently: Improves reuse speed by 1.5 sec and reduces resistabilty by 3% per point, 5 points spendable.Proposed: Dont really need to change this one.Enhance: Beg for MercyCurrently: Increases Mitigations by 5% per point, 3 points spendable.Proposed: Have it instead add 1 stone skin trigger per point for a total of 3 points.Reasoning: This is an interesting ability, but its current incarnation is of limited use, especially in raids, and the AA itself is absolutely worthless. The ability itself should be changed so that it is no longer an intercept, but instead just grants the 3 triggers of 1 hate position drop on damage. That still leaves the essence of the ability intact in being a decent deagro when you are on the top of the hate list. Changing the AA to add stone skin triggers to it will actually make it very useful in raid, and any other situation as well. With 3 points spent, it will essentially let a caster that jumped to the top of the hate list, take a hit without taking damage (due to stone skin absorbing) while also dropping a hate position because of the positional trigger, and no longer being top of the hate list. And then for raiding Brigs, this ability coupled with an Enhanced Shenanigans will add some nice utility.Endline: Honor Among ThievesCurrently: A Damage intercept that returns power based on amount of damage intercepted.Change: Turn this into an actual Brigand Hate Transfer. 17% Xfer on the target of spell cast.Reasoning: Brigands are the only scout class with zero percentage based deagro. Gaining a hate transfer on par with that of Assassins and Swashies (without their mods) will give brigands very nice group utility that they are currently lacking. In addition, it will greatly help brigands hate generation since the sole deagro skill we have is Bufuddle which doesn't even negate the hate generated by 2 autoattacks over the course of a minute.Adjusting that AA line to something along these lines, while not correctly all of the issues with the class, will GREATLY help in bringing Brigands closer to being on par with Swash's and not entirely left in the dust by Preds.

Treznet

09-16-2010, 12:49 PM

At this point Im not even going to try for getting our whole class fixed. I say we should just focus on getting flurry at the moment. I cant see how we have not even been noticed that this is a buff for most all melee classes except brig. Tank classes got a increase in there self buffed autoattack dps and we did not. I dont want to even hear that we can get BC. This is a nerf to the brig class. our class is beyond screwed in other dpartments no one seems to see, It has to be seen that the flurry/aoe on offhands helped nearly all other melee classes and did nothing for brigs

Nidy

09-19-2010, 07:37 PM

I think I would be happy for a group Potency buff at this point. Hello!!!! Anyone out there? How about 15% potency for us and the group!.Nidy 90 Brigand Mistmoore

ammiken

09-20-2010, 01:08 PM

The brig class is dead and falling on deaf ears...might as well just betray and call it a day.It seems as if Devs are too busy working with EQ2X, game updates, new zones, nerfing items, changing encounters, etc. to really care about a class that so few play. I have tried posting, I have tried PMing and have had zero response from anyone. Very sad indeed...

Dareena

09-20-2010, 01:10 PM

<cite>Geothe wrote:</cite><blockquote>Enhance: Street SmartsCurrently: Adds Spell Resists up to 975 at level 90.Proposed: Change from adding spell resists to adding 3% Flurry per point, for 15 Flurry total.Reasoning: Brigs are the only DPS scout that is not able to self buff AE autoattack OR flurry. When discussing the differences between brigs and swashs, it has always been "Swash for AE, Brigs for Single Target." Currently that is not the case at all, enabling Brigs to selfbuff flurry will help that be the same somewhat again. Yes, Assassins get flurry through their Myth at 15% as well, but they already have a ~30% base damage mod increase over Brigs with the innate 5% and new SF AAs, so they will still do much more autoattack DPS than brigs.Enhance: ShenanigansCurrently: Adds 1 hate position Increase and 4% base damage per point, 3 points spendable.Proposed: Keep this AA the same, however, change the actual CA itself to become a regular CA, and not a suicidal reactive. This is one of our hardest hitting CAs and we aren't even really able to use it in raids because it requires us to actually be autoattacked by the raid mob = DEAD BRIGAND. Keep the current hate position changes associated with it to still make it riskier to use in raids, and great to use for those brigs that like to tank, but just make it a non-position specific (so DPSing and Tanking Brigs can both use it) CA and no longer a reactive damage CA.Enhance: Beg for MercyCurrently: Increases Mitigations by 5% per point, 3 points spendable.Proposed: Have it instead add 1 stone skin trigger per point for a total of 3 points.Reasoning: This is an interesting ability, but its current incarnation is of limited use, especially in raids, and the AA itself is absolutely worthless. The ability itself should be changed so that it is no longer an intercept, but instead just grants the 3 triggers of 1 hate position drop on damage. That still leaves the essence of the ability intact in being a decent deagro when you are on the top of the hate list. Changing the AA to add stone skin triggers to it will actually make it very useful in raid, and any other situation as well. With 3 points spent, it will essentially let a caster that jumped to the top of the hate list, take a hit without taking damage (due to stone skin absorbing) while also dropping a hate position because of the positional trigger, and no longer being top of the hate list. And then for raiding Brigs, this ability coupled with an Enhanced Shenanigans will add some nice utility.Endline: Honor Among ThievesCurrently: A Damage intercept that returns power based on amount of damage intercepted.Change: Turn this into an actual Brigand Hate Transfer. 17% Xfer on the target of spell cast.Reasoning: Brigands are the only scout class with zero percentage based deagro. Gaining a hate transfer on par with that of Assassins and Swashies (without their mods) will give brigands very nice group utility that they are currently lacking. In addition, it will greatly help brigands hate generation since the sole deagro skill we have is Bufuddle which doesn't even negate the hate generated by 2 autoattacks over the course of a minute.</blockquote>1) Street Smarts: I like the idea. However I would argue that giving a Brigand +15% Flurry at 10th level would be unbalancing. Plus I like the free +Resists. However there is the Shadow AA upgrade for the Brigand line called Rugged Shielding. The existing ability of +3% Street Smarts mitigation is basically worthless. Switching over mitigation for flurry on Rugged Shielding would be a rather fair change.2) Shenanigans: Also a good change. Though I don't use it as much in T9, this is still a skill which I keep on my hotbars. I personally think that switching it to a russian roulette CA for a dps player could be interesting. (The Brigand uses it for just the damage, but then immediately has to start spamming their -1 threat deaggros.)3) Beg for Mercy: Your idea has some real merit. While I actually do have the 3 AA upgrade on one of my AA builds, it does have limited use. The +1,020 mitigation is very strong for the 60's level CA. But since it hasn't been upgraded in T8 and T9, the +Mitigation aspect hasn't been able to scale up with the content. And while I still use the CA at times, especially since the M1 version on ourselves basically negates 4% of the incoming damage, it is a very limited CA. Switching the AA upgrades over to Stoneskin procs would make it far more useful (and potentially more attractive to have a Brigand along).4) Honor Among Thieves: Here is the one area which we disagree. Now don't get me wrong. We really do need some kind of major hate loss mechanic. Either a super hate dump like Rangers have or a Hate Transfer would fix that problem. But I actually really like the HAT CA. (Yes, I know that I'm in the minority.) It's a great source of mana when you're running with a group or raid which doesn't have mana regen in your group. I've lost track of how many times I've saved wipes on a group or raid by pre-buffing the MT with that ability. (Though in the early eras of WoE, it did occassionally cause me to die instantly on the trash pull.)In the current era of Brigands, I've found my main identity in two forms. While my main function is to act as a debuffing bot (who can also dps), my secondary role is to bodyguard the MT or anyone else in the group / raid who needs it. If I have to suicide myself to prevent a wipe, then so be it. That's an acceptable loss to me. Honor Among Thieves helps me to fullfill that role. While I certainly agree that Brigands need some kind of Hate Loss mechanic, I personally disagree about your idea of completely changing the HAT CA. Though as a substitute, I could easily see the Rugged Shielding AA from the Shadows line being switched over to a Hate Transfer of some sort. Or replacing the Noxious Toxin AA from the Shadows line and giving us a Hate Transfer buff instead.

Luag

09-20-2010, 03:49 PM

no dev plays a brig, wait for GU58 and betray to swash, here's a clue as to how important the current status of the brig as a substandard dps and redundant debuffer is, halfling panty lines get more attention<a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=485757">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=485757</a>

Treznet

09-20-2010, 05:51 PM

Nothing is going to change in the near future. Maybe when expansion hits something will change, I wouldnt hold my breath though only good thing we have got in last 3 expansions was DoM and thats a rogue thing. If you plan on hitting current end game content for the next few monthes you might as well betray after GU58 and come back in feb if anything changes.

ShadyCharacter

11-23-2010, 10:26 AM

<cite>Treznet wrote:</cite><blockquote>Thieves Guild- Im completely fine with us not having a hate transfer, thats a swash ability. There is no fix for this other than completely remove it. I dont think devs even know what to do with it. You give us a red adorn that makes this a small hate transfer? Why would a tank what increased mit debuff ability? outside an sk, so this is intended to only be usefull if we are grouped with an sk? Make it like a VC only with hate. It stores the brigs hate over a period of time and then that hate can be cast on a tank. The tank recieves a hate proc based on the amount of hate the brig aquired. This fixes our problem with not having a hate transfer.</blockquote>I agree with most of the consensus in this thread but just wanted to make a quick post about one idea in particular mentioned.I really like that. It gives us a bit of utility, it doesn't infringe on Swash/Assassin territory, it gives us a little threat help (it is so annoying watching both Assassins and Swashys do more dps and have less hate issues), and it adds another option to contribute to the challenge. It isn't something you would necessarily pop at all times, there would be strategy involved knowing when and when not to cast it. If you pull agro or someone else pulls from the tank it could in effect be another snap for the tank albeit under/at the Brigand's control/discretion. It isn't easymode help, it actively enhances and adds to the depth of the class. With the plethora of mem wiping mobs I know my raid leader would love this. This is an excellent idea!Not sure I would advocate a group wide AR. As it is, my raid leader whinges when I stay in and tbh, AR isnt reliable enough for me to argue with him*. This issue would be compounded vastly by a group wide AR. With many AOE's being powerful enough to one shot (or to curse) most short of a tank who is going to risk it? Sure it would be handy in off chance it procs while someone does not manage to joust out but it is far from being reliable enough to change anything.*Changing AR to actually have a chance at procing on every AoE however would be great. It isn't the proc nature of AR that so limits it, it's the fact it doesn't work at all on many AoEs, belying the spell's description in spirit if not actual wording.The only class that is as positional as us is the Assassin and the Ranger. Rear based attacks directly conflict with tanking, we are (equally with Assassins and Rangers) the worst scout in the entire game to make a hybrid tank. The fact that we can tank at all is because the role and some of its abilities have been shoehorned onto us. Even casters have relatively reliable roots and (although subject to disruption) can use most if not all of their abilities regardless of mob positioning. Of course any tank job requires a certain level of dps to maintain agro and this is how it should be but a tanking Brigand has a much harder time applying their dps because 2/3's of our attacks require us to be behind. Just drop the whole quasi tank aspect, it's a waste of aa and potential and actually hurts the class because it is reasoned off as utility. If I want to tank, I will use a tank, when I am on my Brig, I want to debuff and stab the living hell out of the mob.Edit: On second thoughts a Ranger probably is worse due to the minimum range on most of thier CA's and on most auto attacks (bow dependant).

wormi

12-23-2010, 06:41 PM

I agree with some posts for these changes and disagree with some also.Firstly the things i disagre with;a. Shinanigans being useless... reason, Some mobs in T9 raids i tank with my brig and also adds etc. it's extremely usefull to either grab an add or peel the boss back to the tank if all of the rescues are expired, alot of t9 raid mobs have mem wipes. It also does a large amount of damage.b. Beg for Mercy needs changing... reason, inline with the above, alot of mobs have mem wipes and tanks cannot always have the rescues required to pull them back or possible resists etc, Beg for mercy sits at the top of my CA spam macro, it's inability to cast on a tank means the INSTANT somene other than the MT has aggro they have beg for mercy on them. Win.c. We have weak AoE damage... reason, try casting DoM, Cornered, Baroom Negotiation, Double Up. you'll notice our Burst AoE damage is massive, granted sustained is weak, but how many AoE fights last that long with cornered. Secondly this combo in PVP is devastating. i have "1 shot" 4/6 people in a group and then finished the other 2 off using this as DoM will instantly hit people with all of its triggers and cornered has no PVP tick box. the above combo takes 2 secs to complete once DoM is cast and it can be casdt well before engaging as all trigers are used in 2 secs or less. There is a couple of other things, but those are the main ones.Here is the changes i would like to see;a. Thieves guild for obvious reasons and likely to a flurry buff.b. Our temps are indeed rubbish and as DPS mod caps at 125% and the cap on haste for duel weild is pretty much ~80%, DPS and haste buffs nowdays in groups and raids are pretty much capped without temps / adornments. With a dirge, coercer, illy or inquis in group you are pretty much at cap for blue damage stats with the exception of DA, flurry and AoE auto attack. ~75% of damage on average for all melee classes now days is from Auto attack and brigs have the worst temps of any class not just scouts in respect to buffing it.c. Band of thugs, needs AoE immunity, other than that it's fine. especially in PVP.d. Dance of Metal, Please put an actual description of how it works into the tooltip or fix certain abilities cancelling it.e. Double Up, Lag is definately an issue here. What i would like to see for double up is maybe a non cancellable instant cast 0 recovery buff called maybe, Monkey see, that grants immunity to knockback and control effetcs and records your abilities for the next 2/3 secs and expires after ~30 secs, then a instant cast ability, maybe, Monkey do that repeats them. This will remove lag problems because the temp allowing you to record will also extend through the duration of the lag and prevent crap from interupting it all the time, aswell as giving brigs 1 immunity. something i think we are the only class ingame without 1.

fxdurand888

08-01-2011, 01:51 AM

EQ2 Brigands: Since it is game update time soon, I will go over the brigand’s CAs and AAs in hope that by some miracle the gods of gaming will have my post looked at, and any of it will be used to improve our class or fix broken things about our class. CAs or AAs with a * in front of them are in my opinion the ones that need to be addressed first. In some cases I give a commentary of the CA/AA before giving a suggestion to fix it… sometimes you can just look for Fix: and get details about how I think the skill can be improved without having to read any opinions I may have. I realize giving use everything asked for would make us OP, I am not asking for all of it, but some combination of the ideas below to help/fix brigands. Anyone with constructive feedback or other ideas they would like for the brigand class, feel free to post your thoughts. When coming up with suggestions, I tried to stay away from making changes to skills the could negatively effect a particular play style for the class. The changes I proposed should be beneficial to solo, group, raid, pvp, and tank play as a brigand. Try to keep this in mind when making additional suggestions or bashing mine. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Class specific CAs that need fixing-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- *Band of Thugs - This skill is disappointing because it has the potential to be a class defining skill and yet instead is in its current state. 33.6 seconds for the Thugs to do 20,633 damage in 54 total hits; combat arts and poisons included - or 614 damage per second and about 382 damage each hit. Woopee. Fix: A velious double vv Lv 90 = 396 per hit average. Now transforming this into a CA lets take into account potency since they are pets and should share mine. total from agi and pot = 289% average hit of 396 * 3.89 = 1540 per hit... now they should share my crit chance as well which means they will crit 100% of the time so critically hitting they should be doing 327% more damage for a total of about 6577 damage each hit(when it crits). Assuming they are out the whole duration and land all 54 hits, that would be 355,158 Damage from the CA instead of 20,633 and much more appropriate. The dps for the 33.6 duration would be 10570. Take that amount over a minute and it is only 5919 dps and if you take into account the reuse is 187 seconds, in that time it only does 1899 dps... far from overpowered so lets beef it up some... remember we are going for class defining here. Since we are revamping AA... lets go back in time and unask that they remove the band of thugs AA skill from the final line in the shadows tree. So the new skill has 2 ranks at 3 points each and grants: +1 Thug, +30% aoe avoid (for the thugs), and 15 second reuse reduction per rank. Get rid of the useless Noxious Toxin AA... how worthless can it get really? If the devs are unwilling to do this, there are still many cool things that could be done with this skill. I personally like the idea of them becoming a buff that is always active. Now to get away with this, they would need to do a good deal less damage, but also be on a 10-15 second refresh, where 1 Thug will come back every 10-15 seconds if you have lost any. There is a lot of potential and I hope they can make this skill class defining. Lets say for arguments sake they make them only able to do 75,000 in a 33.6 second time frame as a buff; in this case, my enhance thug aa from above should have 3 levels at the cost of 2 points each granting +1 thug, +25% aoe avoid(for the thugs), and +5% to their inflicted damage per rank. *Shenanigans - The skill is actually a great skill, it just can not be used in all phases of game play with the same effectiveness. What I am going to suggest for this skill is something that can be applied to more than just 1 of our skills, but in summary, would make the skill have 2 effects - one effect for when in Defense stance, and one effect for when in Offense stance. Fix: For starters make ability mod actually increase the damage of this skill. Why it does not now, I have no clue. Defense stance - Same effect as normal, but include: increased hate gain for 10 seconds, about 20% more damage output, and your enemy is unable to switch targets for 3 seconds. Offense stance - Same effect as normal, but remove requirement of being hit to do the damage, as an additional disadvantage for not having the being hit requirement, make the effect of lowering our defense and parry last 6 seconds. Note the 20% damage increase is only for the CA when used in defense stance. From offense stance, you should be able to double up this CA. Note: Use the skill in offense stance with care; it still increases your hate position. *Amazing Reflexes - This used to be a class defining ability, but now it would be more appropriate to call this skill Reflexes because a whole lot of other classes are much more amazing at getting around aoes than we are now. Do not worry, I am not asking for 100% aoe avoid again or any more aoe avoidance for that matter, but I do want to put the "Amazing" back in the skill. Fix: Add a passive buff to the skill that gives +10% Reuse, +10% Casting Speed, +10% Recovery. When Amazing reflexes triggers, have it give +15 Haste, and lower any CAs currently on a reuse by 1 second. Also, when Amazing Reflexes triggers, it should extend the effect to our Thugs. Alternatively, +10% proc chance passive, and when the skill triggers double proc rate for the duration it triggers. There are a lot of things that could be done with this skill. *Thieves Guild - First of all, thank you for making this skill worth something. The only thing this needs is to allow spells to trigger thieves guild for the brigand as well as CAs. Currently it is limiting as far as targets go, since we only get the benefit if a CA is used (confirm?). *Double up - This is truly a class defining skill. All it needs is to work with every and any CA from our class and from AAs. This needs to be remembered for all future AAs that are CAs. Currently it is missing this capability with: Shenanigans, Sunder, Change of Engagement, Dance of Metal (this would not be a good use for the skill in my opinion though), Band of Thugs (I should be able to have 6 thugs if I want), Beg for Mercy, Honor Among Thieves, and Pris de Fer. *Daring Advance - Let ability modifier add to the damage portion of the CA. Rob – Here is a case where the debuff effect of the CA lowers the targets offense instead of defense. Something as easy as the next hit after Rob does +10% damage would work, but something that makes the enemy die quicker in the end is more up the brigands ally. Puncture - Again with lowering the attack skill instead of defense skill. Now this one I personally happen to like, but to be consistent, it should help the target die faster in some way instead. Beg for Mercy - Great skill, but the reuse was increased by a bit too much. I'd like to see 20 seconds shaved off the reuse. To be continued...

fxdurand888

08-01-2011, 01:53 AM

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------AA improvements (since you are revamping AA anyways)------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***************Rogue Tree*************** *Opportunistic Cover - I read notes that you plan to change this to no longer require a shield and give +2.5(or was it 2 I cant remember) DPS per rank. This is almost the good fix for this skill, just one thing however, do not eliminate a potential play-style for the class. Fix: Add +2.5 DPS per rank when not using a shield.Add +7.5 DPS per rank when using a shield. This will allow those brigands who play there character in every single way to still gain the benefit from using a shield and increased dps when brig tanking. Since you usually always add at least 2-3 of our aas to enhance our tanking ability, it would not make sense to go and take some of that away now. I personally like the added functionality and feel like it adds a unique roll to my character. Please do not do anything further to diminish or take that away.(more on this later) Make my proposed fix and more like this in the future to make all brigands of all play styles happy. *Swear - Keep the effect and turn it into a combat art that does decent AOE damage, or add a small amount of AOE auto attack per rank. *Formation - With the massive increase to auto attack damage, using a shield in formation no longer provides a comparable increase in survival as it does a loss in DPS. Fix: Increase any combination of these things to a suitable amount for the dps loss: Increase mitigation of Formation 495 is laughable at this point (this bonus has not scaled well over the levels), increase block chance of Formation, it takes a lot to really see an increase in block chance since round shields have a low shield factor, increase health amount of Formation, or my favorite idea, but I think way to over powered; Formation additionally grants the use of Kite/Tower shields. On the topic of our defense tree - When you revamped the wisdom tree you took away something very useful that I want back. We used to get as one of the skills: Caster will Parry 10% of incoming attacks, attacks from all quadrants have the same chance of being parried. This needs to find its way back into our AAs, and I think it should be split across AAs in the stamina line, since it IS for tanking after all. Again I say: Since you usually always add at least 2-3 of our aas to enhance our tanking ability, it would not make sense to go and take some of that away now. I personally like the added functionality and feel like it adds a unique roll to my character. Please do not do anything further to diminish or take that away. *Traumatic Swipe - For an end line AA skill... this move needs to hit harder. At my +289% total potency I think a fair amount is: 5000-8000. Also, if you could make it a point to not forget we have this skill and make it useful for all monsters; that would be a bonus. *Avast Ye - Let ability modifier add to the damage portion of the CA. Lunge Reversal - Refresh the effect every 5 seconds instead of 15. If it does not work with block, it should. *Remarkable Mobility - This seems like a very low return on MA per rank, correct me if I am wrong. I would like to see it give 20 MA at rank 10. Coule - This attack needs to deal more damage considering the long reuse. At my +289% potency given the reuse, and other AA CAs of ours I think it should do: 7500-9000 *Thief's Prowess - If someone cared about hate enough to go down this line and they are getting attacked, it is already too late. This AA needs a complete rework. The only way I would say this AA should stay is if it causes a drop of target in PVP. I have never speced this so I am not sure how it works in PVP… I do however seem to remember an update note saying that passive deaggro skills no longer work in PVP. PVP is not my main play function on my brigand, but I would not ask that any change be made for those that do enjoy PVP as their main function and use this skill. However, if I am correct that this has no value in PVP, then this skill needs to go. Fix: The int line doesn’t really have anything that awesome going for it, so lets try to change that. Maybe make the AA give +1% trigger chance per rank. Another option could be combat arts deal +0.5% damage per rank when used from behind. More to be continued...

fxdurand888

08-01-2011, 01:53 AM

****************Brigand Tree**************** This is the most terrible tree we have and I am sure anyone who is a real brigand would agree. It comes as no surprise that I took a 3 year break from the game shortly after the devs crapped this pile of stink onto our class. Well while you are doing changes to AAs, this is your chance to make right with brigands, don’t mess it up. We don’t get anything all that great from our end lines in EOF either. Tenure is cool, but not great. Enhance Murderous Rake – Add +1% base and critical damage per rank. Enhance Sneak – Each rank should additionally grant stealth for more monsters that could normally see stealth. Enhance Puncture – This further increases offensive debuffing and is not in line with our class role. As such, add +2% to base and critical damage per rank. *Enhance Defensive Poisons – The benefit from this AA is nominal and part of the crapping on brigands tree that is EOF. Fix: Change to Poisonous Strikes – Add +1 to poison trigger chance per rank. Alternatively, make it a self buff that adds poison damage to every attack, melee and CAs included. Kind of like the legendary weapon from Mistmoore Castle, I think it was called The Maestro’s Flame or something like that. It was a legendary weapon that added like 62 damage to all melee hits (weapon and CA). Now it would need to do a lot more damage than that obviously. It should also be effected by potency, crit bonus, ability mod, agi, and able to crit. *Enhance Desperate Thrust - +50% to hit is worthless, exchange for +3% critical damage per rank. Enhance Cheap Shot – At rank 5 it should have the added effect of getting a full duration vs. heroic mobs. Additionally, each rank should give it damage and turn it into a damage/stun attack. At +289% potency, it should do 869-1258 per rank. *Enhance Evade – This skill should be swapped out to enhance a different skill. A true pile of stink this AA is. *Enhance Barroom Negotiations – Again with hit chance on a CA, it is awesome that I need to list almost every AA in the Brigand tree as a candidate for improvement. Exchange + hit chance for +1% base and critical damage per rank. Enhance Shenanigans – Also increase + critical damage by 3% per rank *Enhance Rob – Another pile of steaming crap in its current state. This is another candidate for choosing another skill to enhance entirely. If however we have to take this Ca as one of the AAs… add +3% critical and base damage per rank or remove the stealth requirement at rank 5. Enhance Mug – Currently, I guess ok for PVP when fighting a brawler but very crappy otherwise, does anyone smell that? Turn it into a damaging CA with points in the AA. 700-1000 damage per rank at 289% potency. Also, at rank 5 it should always steal from the target; just because. *Enhance Vitality Poisons – I actually like this ability, but it has not aged well with the change of game mechanics and needs to be more powerful. Instead of 5% damage and healing per rank, make it 25% per rank. Enhance Debilitate – Add 1% base and critical damage per rank. Enhance Dispatch - Add 1% base and critical damage per rank. Enhance Cuss – I would like to see the dispelling become more powerful per rank. Either in level of dispel or preferably in additional types of buffs effected by the dispel. *Enhance Beg for Mercy – This effect was better when the recast was shorter and the effect different. Now however, it is pretty terrible. Change this to give a 15 second reuse reduction per rank. Enhance Gouge – At rank 5 allow this CA to be used from any position. Tenure – 12% is such an odd number. Make it 15% =p Honor Among Thieves (HAT) – I like this ability a lot; it just needs 1 small tweak. When a tank’s ward eats the damage of an attack that is intercepted with HAT, no power is healed. Now that I think about it, it might be if I am warded, but I am not sure what stops the power heal. Make this come before a ward, or allow us to get power in this scenario. I love the utility this adds to the class and that I can take part of a hit for the main tank in a pinch. Safehouse – Can non-pvp servers get the unlimited range back please? =p *Enhance Battery and Assault – Again with debuffing a mobs offensive capabilities, and as an end line AA? This is the biggest piece of rotting dung I have ever seen. This is more the role of a swash not a brig and should never have found its way to our tree. Mind you I would not wish this as an end line on anyone, not even a swash. Fix: Get rid of Enhance Battery and assault. Replace with Triple Cross: adds 1.5 seconds to double up duration for registering CAs. - enough said. More to be continued... character limits suck.

fxdurand888

08-01-2011, 01:54 AM

****************Shadows Tree**************** *Hidden Adversary – This is redundant and is painfully obvious that the creative mind behind brig/rogue just couldn’t think of any good ideas for us. Fix: This could be a candidate for a whole different skill to be upgraded. However, lets just say we have to have this skill upgraded, instead of hate reduction increase, make it add 1 hate position reduction per rank at 2 points a rank up to 2 ranks. *Poison Mastery – Was this ever a good AA? Either add 20% poison damage per rank, or drop this entirely for something else. *Noxious Toxin – Can you require the person making brigand AAs to actually play one so they would realize how useless this is? This is the most useless skill of all, hands down. Improving the duration of food and drink by 2.5% per rank in the 1st line of shadows owns this AA. Whoever, decided this is what brigs should get as an AA in this tree should retire and never make skills for any game ever again. Replace this with an AA that gives our character a 20% bonus to all stats and damage every time people like the idiot behind this skill give us a crappy AA. j/k about the skill real fix is just below: Fix: See my above idea talking about Band of Thugs and replace this crap with that. *Rugged Shielding - I enjoy the tanking capabilities my brigand can have and as such find all the tanking AA options useful and can see their appeal for other brigands that like the versatility. I feel that way about all the AAs geared towards tanking except this one. For being in the final row of the shadows tree, this sucks badly. The one in the scout shadow line is better. The one in the rogue shadow line is better. Either replace this with something all play-styles can benefit from, or make this a much better option for the tanking brigand. As it stands, when I go to my mirror and bust out the tank spec, not one point goes into this terrible skill. Fix: To make this viable for tanking make it add 20% mitigation increase to Rugged per rank and add a small amount of shield block per rank. *Dispatch Defense – This is terribly redundant. We had enough mitigation decrease with the skill without any AA. Luckily we had a creative person trying really hard to come up with good skills for us… pfft. Fix: Take away the mitigation reduction increase (or not it really doesn’t matter) and replace it with this effect: The brigands party will benefit from increased potency while dispatch is in effect: +1% potency per rank for the group and +1.5% potency per rank for the brigand against a monster with dispatch on it. This effect is only group wide and does not effect the whole raid. Will to Survive – I always felt this CA should have done 10-20% more damage then it does. **************************Sentinel’s Fate Tree************************** Ruthless Riposte – This effect should be on any successful parry, it happens rarely enough, otherwise get rid of this skill and replace it with something good. Evading Awareness – In my opinion, this is another crappy skill. Make this increase all poison trigger chances, all trigger chances, or just make it something else entirely. Only way this should stay is if PVPers find it useful for causing targets to drop. *Help for the Merciful – This could have been cool back when the reuse was much lower, but now it is not something a brigand would use in most cases. Replace this with something all play-styles can benefit from. *Detect Weakness – Another offensive debuff, wrong class guys get them straight. Perhaps add the effect of target takes +3% damage from the brigand’s next hit per rank. ********************Heroic Tree******************** I would love to see more points added to this tree because I like almost every AA in it. Change of Engagement – This CA should hit 15-20% harder. Pris de Fer – This CA should have 1 minute less of a reuse and hit 25-35% harder.

Fauztin

09-06-2011, 10:44 AM

great ideas u got here, i only doubt, that someone of importance reads this =)personally, i'd be happy with not getting a single bit of extra dps, if the devs would make our debuffs worthwhile. i mean most of them don't do a thing due to current game mechanics. our debuffs should raise hitrates of the entire raid (thats what they did back in the days), but since several years they don't do that anymore. make them more like block chance debuffs or something that actually affects hitrates (grpwide accuracy for example, would also adress the utility thing). def skills of mobs no longer determine hitrates of the raid.some utility would be nice too, something that people acutally want to have us in grps over (or at least equal to) a swash. right now all raidleaders wish to have a 25th raid slot, where they can put us. nobody but ourselves is really interested in our dps (and to buff us), tg can be cast raidwide and we don't bring any other thing to a grp besides cb/abi-mod siphon (which can't be considered due to the fact that is's not permanently on the mob/grp AND the swash has the exact same).if they leave the debuffs the way they are, then they GOT to admit, that we need extra dps to compensate for the uselessness, like they did at swashs. they always gets extra dps while we get some special thing like runspeed while cloaked /meeeh. correct me, but now we have 3 aa-skills doing the same. furthermore swash do have utility, at least through hate xfer. don't get me wrong, i don't want such thing. i like how TG is working and u actually have to do something, to get it proc. not just a plain buff like the ones from our afk buffbots.it only needs minor tweaks to get us on par with the swash ST-wise, like giving us a perma dps or haste buff to get on par with the 300ish dps of a swash (not to mention preds). the brig is one the shortend when looking at overcap conversion, even the troub is getting more bonusses out of those stats.personally i wish double up to be more like VC. i love the way vc works. i'd like to see an aa that makes DU work like that and lengthen the recordtime from 2 to idk 5secs. this simple change would bring us back to where we belong, compared to ST-dmg of a swash AND it would leave the swash where he belongs aoe-wise. also the t1 dd would stay in front of us, like its meant to be. but u really have to do something about the rising dps-gap between both rouges or do something about the also rising redundancy of our debuffs. a raid of well-played chars doesn't need a brig to debuff restist, they cap debuffs on their own. only reason to stick with us are the hp debuffs, which is the only advantage our class has to offer.edit: CoE is NOT a CA actually, it can SDA with timewarp and can't be cast while on the run. fix pls and make it WORK the way it should.

Grumble69

10-03-2011, 03:18 PM

Best thing I did was betray to swash. I enjoyed the brig class a lot. But it was just too dang hard getting groups outside of my guild. Everyone is so focused on *individual* level parses and brigs are *perceived* to be as dragging down groups (when the slot can be filled by someone anyone else).