Stop dreaming about DPS mode...

[Somatic]

<p>This is mostly from a raiding perspective, granted, solo / in heroic groups do whatever u want it does not really matter.</p><p>-----------------------------------</p><p>Real DPS will be parsing over 30k by the end of this xpac (perhaps some higher?)We might make it to 15k. (would prob need a perfect stacked group)</p><p>you give up tons of WARD procs to group by going DPS mode.  -- if our heal proc effects proced  a mix of big wards and AOE heals then maybe it would be a viable path.</p><p>you can go low DPS mode and still keep up FD (autoattack) -- on the mobs you don't have to range (most).</p><p>By not casting ward procs on your group your stealing from them a lot of health, the thing needed the most at the start of an xpac.  Your extra DPS does not really matter in the grand scheme of things.  What matters is keeping your group members from getting one shotted / going low on life.   Ward procs assist in this idea a great deal.</p><p>They buffed  up our debuffs pretty big (granted I don't even know how to tell debuffs are really working on raid mobs --).</p><p>-- Does anyone know how to tell how much lowering a mobs str /int etc by X results in less AOE dmg etc, on our new line that reduces defense / parry etc -- how can u equate that to dmg gained on mob??</p><p>If your stopping to debuff your not really going to be parsing that high anyway.</p><p>-------</p><p>Reguardless there is no point for us to go "full" dps on raids.  Sure you can dps some trash a little here and there, mainly to proc FD for your groups real dps, but it's not worth having a full spec just for dpsing.</p><p>If someone wants to make a counter point to this i'm open to consider your views.</p><p>If our heal proc line in inq tree was changed to proc a 2k ward on a successful attack (x times per min) it might be doable.  The only way I can see a inq really going pure dps mode in a group is if they don't heal at all, or very little, maybe 1 heal per pull (pre-pull).  Which means you have to add another healer to the group which will prob need to be a shaman so the group has wards up.   Shamans tho also tend to like to try to melee dps as well ( at least mystics ).</p><p>Anyway just personal view -- as stated I'm not really talking about solo/heroic</p>

[Pyra Shineflame]

<p><cite>Fritzzz@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This is mostly from a raiding perspective, granted, solo / in heroic groups do whatever u want it does not really matter.</p><p>-----------------------------------</p><p>Real DPS will be parsing over 30k by the end of this xpac (perhaps some higher?)We might make it to 15k. (would prob need a perfect stacked group)</p><p>you give up tons of WARD procs to group by going DPS mode.  -- if our heal proc effects proced  a mix of big wards and AOE heals then maybe it would be a viable path.</p><p>you can go low DPS mode and still keep up FD (autoattack) -- on the mobs you don't have to range (most).</p><p>By not casting ward procs on your group your stealing from them a lot of health, the thing needed the most at the start of an xpac.  Your extra DPS does not really matter in the grand scheme of things.  What matters is keeping your group members from getting one shotted / going low on life.   Ward procs assist in this idea a great deal.</p><p>They buffed  up our debuffs pretty big (granted I don't even know how to tell debuffs are really working on raid mobs --).</p><p>-- Does anyone know how to tell how much lowering a mobs str /int etc by X results in less AOE dmg etc, on our new line that reduces defense / parry etc -- how can u equate that to dmg gained on mob??</p><p>If your stopping to debuff your not really going to be parsing that high anyway.</p><p>-------</p><p>Reguardless there is no point for us to go "full" dps on raids.  Sure you can dps some trash a little here and there, mainly to proc FD for your groups real dps, but it's not worth having a full spec just for dpsing.</p><p>If someone wants to make a counter point to this i'm open to consider your views.</p><p>If our heal proc line in inq tree was changed to proc a 2k ward on a successful attack (x times per min) it might be doable.  The only way I can see a inq really going pure dps mode in a group is if they don't heal at all, or very little, maybe 1 heal per pull (pre-pull).  Which means you have to add another healer to the group which will prob need to be a shaman so the group has wards up.   Shamans tho also tend to like to try to melee dps as well ( at least mystics ).</p><p>Anyway just personal view -- as stated I'm not really talking about solo/heroic</p></blockquote><p>For raids: I highly doubt that any healer worth their salt would consider going "full dps" on a raid. Seriously. Fully agree with you, a full dps spec is like spitting into the wind. HOWEVER, going full dps is different than attacking a mob. No, your dps probably doesn't matter. However, procing 2.5k heals on my group is good. Procing and keeping up Fanatic's Devotion in order to help my group kill a mob faster is good. So if it doesn't need range? Whack at it. I am a bit confused at the "giving up ward procs." Every heal has a chance. Each reactive proc counts as a heal. Overwriting your own reactive, wouldn't provide "tons of ward procs" (as recasting is just resetting the count. Exactly one more chance to proc, out of the initial six, with the complementary power cost. Which is precious commodity in SF. Hmmm...) so not overwriting it wouldn't be "giving up" procs either...(anyone parse this?)</p><p>One nit pick about your post however...clerics do reactives. You use "ward" a lot which is not what we do and that has effected one of your points. "Wards" from shamans, are effectively more health, so yes, if shaman doesn't cast wards, that's imaginary health gone. Reactives do not function as health. There is nothing, aside from health buffs, to prevent one shotting. Reactives don't heal death, which makes it slightly frustrating. I have yet to come across an item that procs group "wards" either. Given that as an inquisitor, I am usually in the OT group, I am not going to sit on my butt and spam overwrite my own reactives, if my tank isn't getting hit. That's a good way to waste procs, time and power. My punishments are good to cast in lull times, as it heals in proximity. Inquisition is good to hit, as it helps the MT group. My debuffs stack with others. Plenty of reason to cast something other than a reactive, if it isn't OMG!time.</p><p>Is the last paragraph about grouping, or still raiding? As I mentioned, I am OT, so yes I always have a shaman in my group (defiler), but dps doesn't mean "no heal." I don't know about you, but I cast pretty quickly. IF I wanted, I could easily hit my auto attack and cast one CA and one heal before I swing again. Usually I don't want to as my worth to the raid is my heals.</p>

[Somatic]

<p><cite>Zulaika@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote> I am a bit confused at the "giving up ward procs." <p>You use "ward" a lot which is not what we do and that has effected one of your points. "Wards" from shamans, are effectively more health, so yes, if shaman doesn't cast wards, that's imaginary health gone....</p></blockquote><p>Ward procs are from items that proc wards,</p><p>Hat - tso</p><p>neck - tso</p><p>ring - tso</p><p>hammer - tso</p><p>avatar bp - tso</p><p>2x earrings - tso</p><p>I've seen in the xpac so far:</p><p>Ward legs / Ward arms / assuming there will be more.</p><p>The thing is they don't proc unless your casting heals.</p>

[Pyra Shineflame]

<p>So far, the ward items I have seen are ones that trigger on your target. Group reactives don't count as "targets" save for whoever your arrow is on. So unless you are spam healing every person in your group individually...or does it randomly choose a person to ward so long as you are healing them?</p>

[Calain80]

DPS is already able to hit 30k. It is more likely that they will be able to hit 50k at the end. But you are right. In a raid it is a healers job to heal and only if there is no need to heal he can also add some DPS. But that was also true for previous expansions. Picking up some DPS in your spec if you don't need full support is OK, but if you group dies 'cause you did not spec the defensive abilities, so you could do some additional damage, then it is your fault. Until SF you did not really loose anything by also spec'ing for DPS, but now you do, as there are far more and better healing and debuff options then before. Currently I use a fully defensive build for raids. If my squishies have better gear and are not prone to die to almost any AE any more, I might spec some DPS options, but until then, healing, buffing and debuffing, is out primary job.

[Draco the Grey]

<p><cite>Zulaika@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So far, the ward items I have seen are ones that trigger on your target. Group reactives don't count as "targets" save for whoever your arrow is on. So unless you are spam healing every person in your group individually...or does it randomly choose a person to ward so long as you are healing them?</p></blockquote><p>On a group beneficial spell everyone in the group is a target.  That's why they finally nerfed Manawell and other similar procs - they had a chance to proc for every member of the group on a group heal.  That's why when we cast a group heal/reactive/cure with Dogma running it consumes a hefty chunk of power.  That's why when a Druid casts a group beneficial spell, Infusion procs 6+ times.  When you cast a group heal or reactive your ward procs have a chance to land on each member of your group.</p>

[Pyra Shineflame]

<p><cite>Katryna@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Zulaika@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So far, the ward items I have seen are ones that trigger on your target. Group reactives don't count as "targets" save for whoever your arrow is on. So unless you are spam healing every person in your group individually...or does it randomly choose a person to ward so long as you are healing them?</p></blockquote><p>On a group beneficial spell everyone in the group is a target.  That's why they finally nerfed Manawell and other similar procs - they had a chance to proc for every member of the group on a group heal.  That's why when we cast a group heal/reactive/cure with Dogma running it consumes a hefty chunk of power.  That's why when a Druid casts a group beneficial spell, Infusion procs 6+ times.  When you cast a group heal or reactive your ward procs have a chance to land on each member of your group.</p></blockquote><p>So if you cast a group heal, it has a chance to ward all of them at the same time. And/or it calculates proc rate individually for each "trigger" that goes off on the reactive for group reactive. Is that right?</p>

[Calain80]

<p>If you cast a group reactive you get one chance for each group member to gain the ward proc.</p>