Revamp

[Rhavin]

<p>So I hear from here and there that there is a revamped planned for us. Is there any truth of this or are they just</p><p>trying to keep us hanging to the thread?</p>

[Kulaf]

<p>We don't really need a revamp.....which by definition I mean a total examination of what we do and how we do it.  What we need is a pass over for spells/CA's that are out of date or just plain don't do much anymore.  By example: our spells/CA's that still have power drains, buffing spells that no longer buff the correct attributes, etc. This would be along the same lines as the Enchanter classes received in which their power drains were converted to damage.</p><p>We do need work done on our AA line as it is still non-functional.  They also need to change back some of our spells to be raidwide while they work on a new system for bard group buffing.</p><p>When all this will happen is anyones guess.</p>

[Rhavin]

<p>Changing our buffs, CA/spells and AA sounds pretty much like a revamp to me but if you wanna fight over words fine.. Im hoping here though.</p><p>I can even do this.</p><p>/kneel</p><p>/pray</p><p>please dear devs can you pretty please take a look at our class <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />?</p>

[Wilderbeast25]

<p>Just remember to be careful what you wish for...</p>

[Trabbart]

<p><cite>Bella@Najena wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Just remember to be careful what you wish for...</p></blockquote><p>I lost faith with them . Still anything is better than the flavourless shadow of a shadow troubs have become. And i rather have them do something, anything so i can either switch mains, betray to a dirge or.......... start believing again.</p>

[Gimmiethat]

<p>Please -- we need some love... too many things don't make sense or just don't work.</p><p>1 -- Stat buffs and bonuses that make no sense on armor, weapons, spells and CA's.</p><p>2 -- Affects on t2-t4 gear that don't upgrade with spells.  PotM and Aria upgrades don't benefit from t2-t4 gear.</p><p>3 -- Utility balance between the bard classes.  Dirges effectively buff 3/4 of the classes *including themselves*... troubs effectively buff mages.</p><p>4 -- Songs, spells abilities that literally are USELESS.  Counterspell, Reqium of Reflection... I've never used them.</p><p>5 -- Caps and diminishing returns.  If casters are pretty much at the cap for casting speed and reuse speed with self buffs and equipment... makes troubs big buffs marginal.</p><p>I know there is the careful what ya wish for caution, but really... we need help.</p>

[Rhavin]

<p>Maybe the admin who is supposed to check the troub section has like.. deleted this folder or made it invisible on his computer? Cant see a comment on any thread. At least drop in and say:"we dont care about troubs, go reroll a dirge" so we know there is someone actually reading this.</p>

[Shygar]

<p><cite>Gimmiethat wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Please -- we need some love... too many things don't make sense or just don't work.</p><p>1 -- Stat buffs and bonuses that make no sense on armor, weapons, spells and CA's.</p><p>2 -- Affects on t2-t4 gear that don't upgrade with spells.  PotM and Aria upgrades don't benefit from t2-t4 gear.</p><p>3 -- Utility balance between the bard classes.  Dirges effectively buff 3/4 of the classes *including themselves*... troubs effectively buff mages.</p><p>4 -- Songs, spells abilities that literally are USELESS.  Counterspell, Reqium of Reflection... I've never used them.</p><p>5 -- Caps and diminishing returns.  If casters are pretty much at the cap for casting speed and reuse speed with self buffs and equipment... makes troubs big buffs marginal.</p><p>I know there is the careful what ya wish for caution, but really... we need help.</p><p>Gimmie I agree with some of what you say, however there is more that needs to be fixed with the troub than that of Countersong and Requiem, Requiem has been broken since it came out, it never worked so i haven't used it since i tried on numerous occasions to use it successfully. Countersong does work and it actually does help -- to a point, i have tested this on my tank and we have found that it does reduce the damage, while its not the greates it is ok, could use more.</p><p>where we need tie most help is in the DPS department, scouts are not casters, however i do more damage with a bow than my main and offhand, why is that, and why are we specced for a shield in the AA tree, this makes no sense at all, NEXT  we get an AA poison proc...why we cant use poisons to help, our strongest point is our debuffs, but there not as strong as they should be. </p><p>I love my troub, and i play him well, but i can agree that soe devs should see the troub as a dirge in retrospect, except we are of inspiration with the same type of attacks, rezzs, heals, mitigation and different buffs, debuffs and combat abilities to a point. My point on our Spells</p><p>1. Perfect Shrill or the Shrill Line - our only big hitting spell, ive gotten 14k from this</p><p>2. Aria - Broken, has not worked since SF went live</p><p>3. Rejuv Celeb - this is a Joke, only good for solo and that doesnt help most the time</p><p>4. Song of Magic, I run this but I have no idea if really does help the casters, most caster or grp members are maxed in focus already or there supporting skill</p><p>5. Singing Shot - As i stated before I use this more than anything, its almost the most poweful weapon in my arsenal, i have dbl attacked with this to 20k, </p><p>6. Vexing Versus - ok this is suppose to decrease the targets health, power and lower there defense, I have never seen this do anything, if it works is it that insignificant that we really don't notice it cause we are cheap shotting the target?</p><p>7. Thunderous - does good damage, wish it had a stun effect....goes with the name thunderous - have hit 9k with this</p><p>8. Tap Essence - Love this spell, since if I get drained in a fight i use this every-time its up to restore my power and it does work and does do a little bit of damage, not sure what i hit with this but if i recall its 4 to 7k damage and a nice increase in power</p><p>9. Zanders - decrese mit of mental???? really, i mean really, I have asked other troubs if this works or if they think it works and i hear, i guess so, so I will go along and say if it works it is one of the first spells i use, depending on target</p><p>10. Nightstrike - i use this as I bump targets, as i come out of stealth and its good, but why decrease int....are we making the mob stupid? the hit rates are 3500 up to 8k but u have to be behind and in stealth to use</p><p>11. Lore & Legends - A backstrike, sure we are going to cheap shot and run behind every solo mob we have in game, should have made this a bow manuveur, only time its good is raids and grps, and that is if the tank spins the mob so you dont have to spend all day circling and circling</p><p>ok thats all for today, ill post more in the next few day, while this is my opinion i hope that other bards see it the way i do, change the shield aa to A better AA line, work out the kinks in our aa line and help make us more than a Mage bot</p></blockquote>

[Trabbart]

<p><cite>Rhavin wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Maybe the admin who is supposed to check the troub section has like.. deleted this folder or made it invisible on his computer? Cant see a comment on any thread. At least drop in and say:"we dont care about troubs, go reroll a dirge" so we know there is someone actually reading this.</p></blockquote><p>I am sorry to burst your bubble, we dont have a developer or administrator. A red swingline stapler has been put in charge of troub development since a few years now. And i think it got stolen.</p>

[Gimmiethat]

<p>Shygarr -- honestly... I don't disagree with anything you wrote.  The reality is there is alot to be fixed.  There are times when I wonder if half the buttons on my hotbar have any impact on a fight.  Everything seems to be scattered and miss matched.  The most important thing is that the developers recognize the issues and then do SOMETHING.  If its an increase in troub dps -- fine... an increase in buff effectivenes -- great... just do SOMETHING.</p><p>Two things I just read on the interwebs (so they must be true):</p><p>1 -- All items have been updated based on the stat consolidation.  If this is the case troubs have absolutely the WORST gear in the game.  The second highest stat bump on my t3 armor and mythical is INT... which troubs gain no benefit from. So, in addition to the effect being bugged, they have documented useless stat bonuses.  grrrrrrrreat.</p><p>2 -- Reuse times and casting speed can be buffed to 100%... but spells and abilities cast and reuse times are capped at 50%.  So when casting classes load up on casting speed/reuse gear and self buffs -- troub endlines become more than marginally pointless.  They are useless.</p><p>Ah well gona keep playing my troub anyways -- just wish they would spend a lil' time fixing things.</p>

[DarkDragonXX]

<p><cite>Shygar@The Bazaar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gimmiethat wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Please -- we need some love... too many things don't make sense or just don't work.</p><p>1 -- Stat buffs and bonuses that make no sense on armor, weapons, spells and CA's.</p><p>2 -- Affects on t2-t4 gear that don't upgrade with spells.  PotM and Aria upgrades don't benefit from t2-t4 gear.</p><p>3 -- Utility balance between the bard classes.  Dirges effectively buff 3/4 of the classes *including themselves*... troubs effectively buff mages.</p><p>4 -- Songs, spells abilities that literally are USELESS.  Counterspell, Reqium of Reflection... I've never used them.</p><p>5 -- Caps and diminishing returns.  If casters are pretty much at the cap for casting speed and reuse speed with self buffs and equipment... makes troubs big buffs marginal.</p><p>I know there is the careful what ya wish for caution, but really... we need help.</p><p>Gimmie I agree with some of what you say, however there is more that needs to be fixed with the troub than that of Countersong and Requiem, Requiem has been broken since it came out, it never worked so i haven't used it since i tried on numerous occasions to use it successfully. Countersong does work and it actually does help -- to a point, i have tested this on my tank and we have found that it does reduce the damage, while its not the greates it is ok, could use more.</p><p>where we need tie most help is in the DPS department, scouts are not casters, however i do more damage with a bow than my main and offhand, why is that, and why are we specced for a shield in the AA tree, this makes no sense at all, NEXT  we get an AA poison proc...why we cant use poisons to help, our strongest point is our debuffs, but there not as strong as they should be. </p><p>I love my troub, and i play him well, but i can agree that soe devs should see the troub as a dirge in retrospect, except we are of inspiration with the same type of attacks, rezzs, heals, mitigation and different buffs, debuffs and combat abilities to a point. My point on our Spells</p><p>1. Perfect Shrill or the Shrill Line - our only big hitting spell, ive gotten 14k from this</p><p>2. Aria - Broken, has not worked since SF went live</p><p>3. Rejuv Celeb - this is a Joke, only good for solo and that doesnt help most the time</p><p>4. Song of Magic, I run this but I have no idea if really does help the casters, most caster or grp members are maxed in focus already or there supporting skill</p><p>5. Singing Shot - As i stated before I use this more than anything, its almost the most poweful weapon in my arsenal, i have dbl attacked with this to 20k, </p><p>6. Vexing Versus - ok this is suppose to decrease the targets health, power and lower there defense, I have never seen this do anything, if it works is it that insignificant that we really don't notice it cause we are cheap shotting the target?</p><p>7. Thunderous - does good damage, wish it had a stun effect....goes with the name thunderous - have hit 9k with this</p><p>8. Tap Essence - Love this spell, since if I get drained in a fight i use this every-time its up to restore my power and it does work and does do a little bit of damage, not sure what i hit with this but if i recall its 4 to 7k damage and a nice increase in power</p><p>9. Zanders - decrese mit of mental???? really, i mean really, I have asked other troubs if this works or if they think it works and i hear, i guess so, so I will go along and say if it works it is one of the first spells i use, depending on target</p><p>10. Nightstrike - i use this as I bump targets, as i come out of stealth and its good, but why decrease int....are we making the mob stupid? the hit rates are 3500 up to 8k but u have to be behind and in stealth to use</p><p>11. Lore & Legends - A backstrike, sure we are going to cheap shot and run behind every solo mob we have in game, should have made this a bow manuveur, only time its good is raids and grps, and that is if the tank spins the mob so you dont have to spend all day circling and circling</p><p>ok thats all for today, ill post more in the next few day, while this is my opinion i hope that other bards see it the way i do, change the shield aa to A better AA line, work out the kinks in our aa line and help make us more than a Mage bot</p></blockquote></blockquote><p>I agree with most of this, just a note, INT supposedly reduces the damage done by spells (aoes) by mobs.  There was an old post that explained this...that is why night strike debuffs int.  Unsure if it works as intended.</p><p>As for the initial poster, gear has always afftected previous teir spells if it was previous teir gear.  You seen this in Eof to Rok and your seeing it again from TSO to SF.  SF is an expanion where they raised the level teir, so of course the gear is going to not effect the higher teir spells.  It sucks, specially for things like twelve tone earing, and set bonuses that give you a free buff.  I've noticed ards more than any other class are strapped to their gear with spell bonuses.</p><p>Countersong is actually effective, but unfortunately you have to get the timing just right on it, which sucks.</p><p>SF has shown a considerable jump in my dps, almost doubled.  but again I agree with most of the second posters points.  Although I could have swore my Aria works...will have to double check that when I get online.</p><p>As for zanders, I actually do like this debuff, and it seems to work well for me.</p><p><img src="http://kyrainetheranger.tripod.com/starsiggirl.gif" width="432" height="130" /></p>

[Artalis the Elder]

<p>I'm curious where the idea that we were being looked at for a revamp came from. Someone daydreaming or did someone at SOE give us an indication that Troubs were actually being looked at.</p><p>We can rehash all day what we think is wrong/missing for the class, but if nobody's listening...it's just a bunch of wasted keystrokes.</p>

[kierstin]

<p>Look at the recent revamp of monks, guardians, and berserkers.  It was touted as focused on making them on par with the other tanks.  Even if we do get looked at, which I highly doubt, what makes you think that it will actually do anything?</p>

[Artalis the Elder]

Oh I'm sure they'll do *something* if we are in fact being looked at. Whether it will actually be anything resembling beneficial changes for the class is where a huge chunk of skepticism comes in. Of course I don't know that there's much they could do to make the class any less effective in an active role so I guess I shouldn't worry too much.

[Prestissimo]

<p><cite>Kiki@Guk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Of course I don't know that there's much they could do to make the class any less effective in an active role so I guess I shouldn't worry too much.</blockquote><p>They could take out the marginal dps (that can pretty easily be beaten by a decent priest) that we now provide.</p><p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /> they also could throw in aas to beef up our power drain spells just to compound the insult that they're still there after this long.</p><p>Considering thats the only 2 things they could do to make the troubs worse, I'd be willing to put a bet on it happening.</p>

[Nuove]

<p><cite>Gimmiethat wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Please -- we need some love... too many things don't make sense or just don't work.</p><p>1 -- Stat buffs and bonuses that make no sense on armor, weapons, spells and CA's.</p><p>2 -- Affects on t2-t4 gear that don't upgrade with spells.  PotM and Aria upgrades don't benefit from t2-t4 gear.</p><p>3 -- Utility balance between the bard classes.  Dirges effectively buff 3/4 of the classes *including themselves*... troubs effectively buff mages.</p><p>4 -- Songs, spells abilities that literally are USELESS.  Counterspell, Reqium of Reflection... I've never used them.</p><p>5 -- Caps and diminishing returns.  If casters are pretty much at the cap for casting speed and reuse speed with self buffs and equipment... makes troubs big buffs marginal.</p><p>I know there is the careful what ya wish for caution, but really... we need help.</p></blockquote><p>while i agree with most of this,  i dont think requiem needs to be changed unless its keeping the stoneskin/reflect and adding on to it. i use that buff all the time, solo, pvp, pve. ive caught 15k stoneskins in groups, countless stoneskins in pvp that saved my skin. sure i dont know the pve side of things as well. but usually when something is changed pve side and soe doesnt put the pvp side into effect, things become worthless on pvp.</p>