Battlegrounds Equipment - Wearable outside of BGs for PVE?

[Blxckheart]

<p>Will the battlegrounds token gear be able to be worn for PVE outside of the battlegrounds?  </p>

[Snosael]

<p>i believe so, however, there may not be crit mit on it so pve is gonna be harder, and raid mobs might not be posible.</p>

[Blxckheart]

<p>But the jewelry is easily better than most of the fabled instance drops....</p>

[thog_zork]

<p><cite>Blxckheart wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>But the jewelry is easily better than most of the fabled instance drops....</p></blockquote><p>which should be changed at least on PvE-Servers</p>

[Grobi]

<p>plus i hear there is now resists on pvp gear wich makes it better for instances than the normal non resist gear we get outside from raids <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Shadus]

<p>Yes, this needs nerfed immediately because alternate paths than raiding for high end gear is completely unacceptable.</p>

[Dulissa]

<p><cite>Grobi wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>plus i hear there is now resists on pvp gear wich makes it better for instances than the normal non resist gear we get outside from raids <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>if this is true, tell us again that pvp doesn't effect the pve game....</p>

[Golu]

<p><cite>Shadus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Yes, this needs nerfed immediately because alternate paths than raiding for high end gear is completely unacceptable.</p></blockquote><p>While i agree some of the gear needs a nerf.. This additude of "raiding is the only way people should be able to gear up" is unnacceptable aswell.</p>

[Lethe5683]

<p><cite>Blxckheart wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Will the battlegrounds token gear be able to be worn for PVE outside of the battlegrounds?  </p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #993366;">I think so, but the toughness stat won't do anything for PvE.</span></p>

[Geothe]

<p><cite>Caeremos@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Shadus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Yes, this needs nerfed immediately because alternate paths than raiding for high end gear is completely unacceptable.</p></blockquote><p>While i agree some of the gear needs a nerf.. This additude of "raiding is the only way people should be able to gear up" is unnacceptable aswell.</p></blockquote><p>No, the attitude is "PvEing is the only way people should be able to gear up to PvP" and that is how it should be.PvP should not give rewards that have a significant impact on PvE (on PvE servers) in any way, shape, or form.</p>

[Deathshe]

<p>With the cost of the gear you won't have to worry about people running around in full sets of it for a very very long time :/</p><p>Last I checked it was 70-100 tokens for a piece. At 1-3 tokens every 20 minutes spent in the BG's...</p><p>((*edit)) And just to be clear, I'm for good gear from PvP, and against the outrageous cost.</p>

[Lethe5683]

<p><cite>Geothe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>No, the attitude is "PvEing is the only way people should be able to gear up to PvP" and that is how it should be.PvP should not give rewards that have a significant impact on PvE (on PvE servers) in any way, shape, or form.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #993366;">And why should that be?</span></p>

[timetravelling]

<p><cite>Grobi wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>plus i hear there is now resists on pvp gear wich makes it better for instances than the normal non resist gear we get outside from raids <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>None of the jewelry was affected, but:</p><p>Fabled BG and Open PvP armor received resists similar to fabled raid gear.</p><p>Tradeskilled BG armor received lesser resists</p><p>Additionally, I added resists to all heroic PvE armor as well.</p><p>jewelry will remain resist-less, but legendary+ armor should all have resists. It will give you a higher 'base' for your resists that can then be augmented with specific jewelry sets and adornments.</p>

[hellfire]

<p>BGs gear is not touching raid gear....so go raid and stop worring about it folks.</p><p>BGs gear is not even touching some pve heroric gear and vice verse.</p><p>Limiting ANY gear completly to one play style is stupid  so im glad its not being done.</p><p>With all that said cant wait for the BGs to be pushed to live.</p>

[Lader]

<p><cite>timetravelling wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Additionally, I added resists to all heroic PvE armor as well.</p></blockquote><p>does this mean that all the crap we've seen dropping in SF zones that no one will use bc its worse than tso stuff (bc it has no resists) is actually going to have resists?!?! if so then youve definately made the right decision. If not, well, read the items forum to see how your players feel about it.</p>

[DuneWarrior]

<p><cite>timetravelling wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Additionally, I added resists to all heroic PvE armor as well.</p><p>jewelry will remain resist-less, but legendary+ armor should all have resists. It will give you a higher 'base' for your resists that can then be augmented with specific jewelry sets and adornments.</p></blockquote><p>Does that pertain to PvE servers as well? Can we get a confirmation on that ?</p>

[wickermanuk]

<p>It is obvious that someone at SOE who is charge of the major decisions involving EQ2 and the direction it is going has decided that BG needs to be a big hit. I presume this is because WOW has BG therefore of course EQ2 has to follow suit.</p><p>It still blows my mind that they close down PVP servers due to lack of interest yet spend so much time on another essentially PVP based project. Logically that doesn't make much sense to me.</p><p>As for the gear, its just going to be a mess. Already SOE struggle so much with itemization, adding yet another level of gear and balancing that with Solo,Crafting,PVP,Raid and Heroic gear is going to be a big headache.</p>

[Kkolbe]

<p><cite>wickermanuk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It is obvious that someone at SOE who is charge of the major decisions involving EQ2 and the direction it is going has decided that BG needs to be a big hit. I presume this is because WOW has BG therefore of course EQ2 has to follow suit.</p><p><strong>It still blows my mind that they close down PVP servers due to lack of interest yet spend so much time on another essentially PVP based project. Logically that doesn't make much sense to me.</strong></p><p>As for the gear, its just going to be a mess. Already SOE struggle so much with itemization, adding yet another level of gear and balancing that with Solo,Crafting,PVP,Raid and Heroic gear is going to be a big headache.</p></blockquote><p>They didn't close down pvp server due to lack of interest,  they closed them down because every one transfered to the biggest server(Nagafen) so they could find more pvp, which left Venekor deserted(and all euro servers are low pop.)They offered free transfers a year before Venekor went down. Just like how some pve servers are very low pop because so many people join AB( the highgest pop. pve server.) I am sure they will be closing down some pve servers in the future, just  like they have done in the past, as i remeber half of the pve servers went down already. </p><p>Furthermore, pvp was launched years after the game came out, so we didn't have any chance of getting that new player rush when the game came out. Factor in all this, and your statement is untrue(bolded statement)^^. Nagafen  and AB are the biggest servers in EQ2, come play on Nagafen and feel the lag in a lot of zones.</p>

[timetravelling]

<p><cite>Zaktull@Najena wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>timetravelling wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Additionally, I added resists to all heroic PvE armor as well.</p><p>jewelry will remain resist-less, but legendary+ armor should all have resists. It will give you a higher 'base' for your resists that can then be augmented with specific jewelry sets and adornments.</p></blockquote><p>Does that pertain to PvE servers as well? Can we get a confirmation on that ?</p></blockquote><p>Confirmed. The gear changes affect the gear--no matter what server you're on.</p>

[Seolta]

<p>BG gear takes way more time/effort to get than actual PVE gear which is BETTER for PVE as it is DESIGNED for PVE, so stop crying about it you haters. BG is live, get over it. Go shake your fists at the kids in your neighbors yard or go yell at the clouds or something and just drop the BG bashing kthx.</p>

[kcirrot]

<p><cite>Seolta@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>BG gear takes way more time/effort to get than actual PVE gear which is BETTER for PVE as it is DESIGNED for PVE, so stop crying about it you haters. BG is live, get over it. Go shake your fists at the kids in your neighbors yard or go yell at the clouds or something and just drop the BG bashing kthx.</p></blockquote><p>This.  BG gear will appeal to some folks, but it won't stop anyone from advancing in PvE who doesn't want to participate in BG.  I wish folks would just play their own game and stop worrying about what other people do.</p>

[Aanadorn68]

<p><cite>Caeremos@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Shadus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Yes, this needs nerfed immediately because alternate paths than raiding for high end gear is completely unacceptable.</p></blockquote><p>While i agree some of the gear needs a nerf.. This additude of "raiding is the only way people should be able to gear up" is unnacceptable aswell.</p></blockquote><p>It's completely acceptable for me, and in fact should be the ONLY way to gear up at the top tier.  It's a PVE server, there should be zone, zero, zilch advantage to any PVP in any way, shape or form.  It's already annoying that you get the best appearance armor out of BG.  But I'll be damned if we are forced to play BG to be able to raid.</p>

[Elquinjena]

<p>In WOW people play the battlegrounds there to earn points to buy better gear which they use when raiding and grouping.</p><p>it is one way a person can work  towards better gear outside of raiding.</p><p>I always think it is funny that most people say " if you want better gear, go raiding" yet if you do not have the gear needed, you are turned down from raid groups till you get geared up! I always thought of this as a catch 22.</p><p>A person goes raiding for a chance at better gear ( you rolling against others up to 23 other people..most times its 2-5 others for same piece) but if you don't have gear that will keep you alive during said raid, most groups don't want you along because you become a drag on the raid and may mean the differents between completing it or failing.</p><p>So all BG gear that you can get from the tokens and crafter made is only usable in BG. I don't see BG lasting that long if then, once people get geared up, people will not have the time to spend doing alot of BG while there is real usable gear to get through raiding and grouping.</p>

[Sphiriah]

<p><cite>Elquinjena wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>In WOW people play the battlegrounds there to earn points to buy better gear which they use when raiding and grouping.</p></blockquote><p>What? No. This is completely incorrect.</p><p>The currency you gain from Battlegrounds in WoW gets you armor that is designed for PvP. You can use it in PvE if you want, but you'd be a laughing stock. It's not meant to be used in PvE at all.</p>

[Ahlana]

<p><cite>Sphiriah@Permafrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Elquinjena wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>In WOW people play the battlegrounds there to earn points to buy better gear which they use when raiding and grouping.</p></blockquote><p>What? No. This is completely incorrect.</p><p>The currency you gain from Battlegrounds in WoW gets you armor that is designed for PvP. You can use it in PvE if you want, but you'd be a laughing stock. It's not meant to be used in PvE at all.</p></blockquote><p>Um yeah... same here. You can use the BG Gear in PVE/Raid but you will be a laughing stock, it is not meant for that content. You do not get critmit and other PVE things .. and some of the blue stats work in PVP only on the PVP gear... it is designed for PVP and works best in PVP. If you want to raid T9 you are going to need PVE gear simple as that.</p>

[Michayla]

<p><cite>Kkolbe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>wickermanuk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It is obvious that someone at SOE who is charge of the major decisions involving EQ2 and the direction it is going has decided that BG needs to be a big hit. I presume this is because WOW has BG therefore of course EQ2 has to follow suit.</p><p><strong>It still blows my mind that they close down PVP servers due to lack of interest yet spend so much time on another essentially PVP based project. Logically that doesn't make much sense to me.</strong></p><p>As for the gear, its just going to be a mess. Already SOE struggle so much with itemization, adding yet another level of gear and balancing that with Solo,Crafting,PVP,Raid and Heroic gear is going to be a big headache.</p></blockquote><p>They didn't close down pvp server due to lack of interest,  they closed them down because every one transfered to the biggest server(Nagafen) so they could find more pvp, which left Venekor deserted(and all euro servers are low pop.)They offered free transfers a year before Venekor went down. Just like how some pve servers are very low pop because so many people join AB( the highgest pop. pve server.) I am sure they will be closing down some pve servers in the future, just  like they have done in the past, as i remeber half of the pve servers went down already. </p><p>Furthermore, pvp was launched years after the game came out, so we didn't have any chance of getting that new player rush when the game came out. Factor in all this, and your statement is untrue(bolded statement)^^. Nagafen  and AB are the biggest servers in EQ2, come play on Nagafen and feel the lag in a lot of zones.</p></blockquote><p>The fact that there are only 2 PvP servers and 22 PvE servers shows that there is a lack of general interest. The combined population of the 2 PvP servers is significantly less than the 22 PvE servers. Also, judging from the server status pages, the average level of both PvP servers are significantly less than all the PvE servers, with the exception of Antonia Bayle. Vox's average level is 29.18, which only says to me either everyone has alts they don't level, or people created characters there, didn't like it and quit and/or went to PvE servers.</p><p>The fact that the servers were created later holds no ground. Those servers were created in 2006. That's plenty of time to develop a population. When servers need to be split because of overcrowding, then you can say there is a general interest in PvP. But that isn't the case, is it?</p>

[Faerus]

<p>Pvp gear long time to get? Not! I know of people on the bazaar right now who have almost full set of bg gear.</p>

[Nenamas_Warclaw]

<p><cite>Katarzyna@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Kkolbe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>wickermanuk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It is obvious that someone at SOE who is charge of the major decisions involving EQ2 and the direction it is going has decided that BG needs to be a big hit. I presume this is because WOW has BG therefore of course EQ2 has to follow suit.</p><p><strong>It still blows my mind that they close down PVP servers due to lack of interest yet spend so much time on another essentially PVP based project. Logically that doesn't make much sense to me.</strong></p><p>As for the gear, its just going to be a mess. Already SOE struggle so much with itemization, adding yet another level of gear and balancing that with Solo,Crafting,PVP,Raid and Heroic gear is going to be a big headache.</p></blockquote><p>They didn't close down pvp server due to lack of interest,  they closed them down because every one transfered to the biggest server(Nagafen) so they could find more pvp, which left Venekor deserted(and all euro servers are low pop.)They offered free transfers a year before Venekor went down. Just like how some pve servers are very low pop because so many people join AB( the highgest pop. pve server.) I am sure they will be closing down some pve servers in the future, just  like they have done in the past, as i remeber half of the pve servers went down already. </p><p>Furthermore, pvp was launched years after the game came out, so we didn't have any chance of getting that new player rush when the game came out. Factor in all this, and your statement is untrue(bolded statement)^^. Nagafen  and AB are the biggest servers in EQ2, come play on Nagafen and feel the lag in a lot of zones.</p></blockquote><p>The fact that there are only 2 PvP servers and 22 PvE servers shows that there is a lack of general interest. The combined population of the 2 PvP servers is significantly less than the 22 PvE servers. Also, judging from the server status pages, the average level of both PvP servers are significantly less than all the PvE servers, with the exception of Antonia Bayle. Vox's average level is 29.18, which only says to me either everyone has alts they don't level, or people created characters there, didn't like it and quit and/or went to PvE servers.</p><p>The fact that the servers were created later holds no ground. Those servers were created in 2006. That's plenty of time to develop a population. When servers need to be split because of overcrowding, then you can say there is a general interest in PvP. But that isn't the case, is it?</p></blockquote><p>You defently have never played on a pvp server or atleast not for any amount of time. On pvp servers people lock their chars, we have different rule sets for AAs also. There are alot of people who enjoy lower lvl pvp so they keep their alts locked in the lower teirs, also there are many people who want to have full AA at what ever level they are and that required a very slow grind of quest while turning off combat exp. On pvp servers there is a cap of 1.5x your lvl to the amount of AA you can have untill you get high enough and the aa slider can only go to 50% untill you get max lvl.</p><p>As for people saying the BG armor has messed up your servers, I would say most of us dont like it at all. BG armor has all but killed open world pvp on the pvp server. And our openworld pvp gear is the exact same gear as BG, besides one or two items. It is alot harder to get good gear on pvp servers, especialy in open zones. Its hard to get to instances sometimes because there is so much pvp, and I love it. I do not like how ever that they screwed up our pvp armor just for BGs. There is usualy pvp otw to raids and with our pvp gear no longer having crit mit like it use to, we are supose to go up agains ppl in pvp gear with none pvp gear.</p><p>The lfie tap on the gear, Im sure it is great to have in BGs where deaths do not effect the outcome, where its important to hold onto an item, tower, or catch a flag. But in open world pvp where you need to kill people for writs, its already hard enough to take down some people. I had a full group fight against a SK who had a full set of the pvp gear on, we caused him to heal so much it was pointless to try to fight him.</p>

[swedago]

<p><cite>Seolta@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>BG gear takes way more time/effort to get than actual PVE gear which is BETTER for PVE as it is DESIGNED for PVE, so stop crying about it you haters. BG is live, get over it. Go shake your fists at the kids in your neighbors yard or go yell at the clouds or something and just drop the BG bashing kthx.</p></blockquote><p>Well said!</p>

[Lethe5683]

<p><cite>Blxckheart wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Will the battlegrounds token gear be able to be worn for PVE outside of the battlegrounds?  </p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #993366;">Wearable but pretty much useless in raids.</span></p>

[BMouse]

<p><cite>Toressa@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Grobi wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>plus i hear there is now resists on pvp gear wich makes it better for instances than the normal non resist gear we get outside from raids <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>if this is true, tell us again that pvp doesn't effect the pve game....</p></blockquote><p>The reason I have started doing battlegrounds is because I like the Jewlery. Shame that the PvP gear isn't the same as Normal PvE gear. I would have loved to see PvP gear being able to be as effective as PvE gear on a PvE Server. Then I would have an Excuss to wear my BG Gear on  my noemal PvE Server as everyday Armour.</p><p>  It is a shame that some people have issues with people that don't raid being able to get gear that is almost, (or) as good as Raid Gear.</p>

[MurFalad]

<p><cite>Elquinjena wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>In WOW people play the battlegrounds there to earn points to buy better gear which they use when raiding and grouping.</p></blockquote><p>That was certainly true in WoW during TBC, there they had (by WoW standards) quite hard dungeons but released some much easier to get PVP gear, this gear came about due to the new arena's they launched (small 2v2 to 5v5 one room thingies with limited PVP rule sets designed to appeal to E-Sports I detested!).</p><p>Because of this everyone just PVP'd to get their set of raid starter gear, this pvp gear was basically the same gear you'd get one piece per a dungeon, but with added resilience (similar to toughness) so it was a no brainer to get this gear.  When this happened all the AFK problems started up, it was common to have 20 or so people AFK on your side in AV which made it a total farce.</p><p>They then fixed the problem in WotLK, there were anti AFK measures added but what really stopped most of it was the fact that you could only get really sucky gear in BG's (it was appallingly bad), and the PVE dungeons + first level raids were easy mode (the recycled level 60 raid they released was pugged in the 25 man mode more or less from day 1) so everyone geared up that way instead!</p><p>Later on they did balance it a bit better so in its current state you are better off PVE for PVE gear and PVP for PVP gear, but from that the lesson I think we can learn for EQ2 is that if the effort vs reward in PVP or PVE is too much out of skew then one side dies.  And that PVP gear should be optimal for PVP, ie it shouldn't be PVE gear with an extra stat added onto it, but instead this stat should cost something and therefore replace PVE stats.</p><p><cite>Elquinjena wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I don't see BG lasting that long if then, once people get geared up, people will not have the time to spend doing alot of BG while there is real usable gear to get through raiding and grouping.</p></blockquote><p>Well I do hope that BG's are a success beyond that, heirloom gear keeps things interesting for much longer and is very well implemented in EQ2. </p><p>But beyond gear I hope the games are so much fun that we just want to be in them, WAR was good for that, and WoW used to be fun before TBC in battlegrounds where I'd spend hours in AV just enjoying myself as it was PVE+PVP (last time I saw its a 3 minute zerg, hence I get my PVP fix right now from Planetside, although EQ2 BGs in the EU when they're up are hopefully going to be a new way to get that fix).</p><p>The other problem WoW has that I hope doesn't happen in EQ2 though is the gear disparity, there after a couple of months of the good pvp gear dropping everyone had it.  So taking a new alt to level 80 you basically had to grind BG's, I say grind because you were basically unable to influence fights in a meaningful way, but still had to participate for many matches before you could become competitive.</p><p>Even I was tempted by this to AFK to get gear as it was so annoying, but I didn't, instead I stopped PVPing in WoW as I was no longer having the casual fun I craved, then later (over 2 years ago) swapped to EQ2 <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> and slowly stopped playing WoW altogether.</p>

[Brutalicus]

<p>I like the battlegrounds idea even though I am on a pvp server and get plenty of pvp.  However I would suggest that they not overpower the gear.   I would like to see crit mit and resists on the Bg gear so it can be used as a stepping stone on the way to getting raid gear while toning down other stats ect so as to not overpower it compared to raid gear.    Raid gear should always be top dog. </p>

[eqaddictedfool]

As a dps class pvp gear is a good stepping stone to Raid gear. But i agree on the part that crit mit should not be offered on pvp gear as crit mit isnt used in pvp and the pvp has other useful stats like the procs which can be used in pve. I will not be gearing up completely in pvp. Im using it to mix and match with instance gear. And as far as bgs staying around i think they will. Sony just needs to get some more scenarios out there and smush some of the bugs and it will be a great add on to eq2. much better than LON.

[Rahatmattata]

<p><cite>Katarzyna@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>The fact that there are only 2 PvP servers and 22 PvE servers shows that there is a lack of general interest.</blockquote><blockquote><em>The thousands of players going into the battlegrounds disagree with you. You apparently can't understand the difference between a PvP server and the battlegrounds.</em></blockquote>

[Gothyia]

<p>I agree about the equipment in BGs should be made useable in PVE .. there is absolutely no point in a casual player playing pvp to get equipment if they dont really like pvp.</p><p>MOSt ppl i know are raiders and PVE players .. otherwise we all would be on Nagafen.</p><p>We would love to occasionally pvp im sure but NO way if we cant use the equipment for PVE too.. Casual players like myself dont have time to RAID /  and get gear thru sharding now that grey sharding is gone.  We dont have time to dedicate to raiding due to time constraints some of us.  Therefore we are left with kind of nothing to do after we have lvled up and crafted up and what not.. getting in a short pug group is optional but not always available.. We need to be able to have a goal to work .. we could have worked on pvp gear at times long as it was usuable for PVE...</p><p>come on change this.. even if the stats are drummed down a bit for pve .. its still worth it.   getting one or 2 groups a night for 1 ot 2 shards again is impossible to even conceive of getting shard gear to be nice equiped..</p><p>Give us back possible of grey sharding or pvp gear that is usuable in PVE</p><p>Also nagafen should not be allowed to join up with any other pVE server for BG .. they are seasoned and pve players playing against seasoned players have no chance of winning and there for a deterent to even continue to pvp.</p><p>They should have their own pvp Nagafen BG server.  otherwise its a complete UNFair advantage because theyre whole point of existance is to PVP.</p><p>PVE players are only some of them trying out pvp for the first time. / Getting slaughtered by Nagafen players IS NOT fun and unfair advantage .. </p>

[melaine_dvarvensplitter]

<p>I am working on getting the BG tokens to get geared up so I can do some BG's and not get sand pounded up my tail by those from Naggy and Vox... I like that I can or should be able to wear it while I am soloing about as grouping and raiding is out of the question at this time in my life.</p>

[Wingrider01]

<p><cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Katarzyna@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>The fact that there are only 2 PvP servers and 22 PvE servers shows that there is a lack of general interest.</blockquote><blockquote><em>The thousands of players going into the battlegrounds disagree with you. You apparently can't understand the difference between a PvP server and the battlegrounds.</em></blockquote></blockquote><p>thousands? Have validated, documented proof of that numnber or is it just something you pulled out of the nether regions because the number sounded impressive? The first fact is accurate as to the count of servers, there second is a made up assumption.</p>

[Terron]

<p>I do not want to have any involvement in PvP play.</p><p>I do not mind BG being available for those who want it, though I'd prefer the resources be used elsewhere.</p><p>If there any any stage a piece of BG gear is better for PvE than what can be obtained in PvE for similar effort then I would be very unhappy. I do not want to be excluded from good PvE gear by my desire not to participate in PvP.</p>

[Raznor2]

<p>This is really a non issue people.  One, bg armor takes a long time to get in comparison to a decent set of pve armor.  Two, it uses toughness, which is a pvp only type of mitigation and it has no critical mitigation, making it near useless for raids.  Three, it has a potency portion that only works in pvp.  The armor and jewlery won't give any poteny for pve fights making it poor for anything other than pvp. </p><p>~Raznor </p>

[Armawk]

<p><cite>Terron@Splitpaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I do not want to have any involvement in PvP play.</p><p>I do not mind BG being available for those who want it, though I'd prefer the resources be used elsewhere.</p><p>If there any any stage a piece of BG gear is better for PvE than what can be obtained in PvE for similar effort then I would be very unhappy. I do not want to be excluded from good PvE gear by my desire not to participate in PvP.</p></blockquote><p>It isnt, from what Im seeing. What it IS is a good set of entry level PvE grouping gear, but Id be amazed to see anyone asking for it specifically from people.</p>

[Detor]

<p><cite>Raznor@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This is really a non issue people.  One, bg armor takes a long time to get in comparison to a decent set of pve armor.  Two, it uses toughness, which is a pvp only type of mitigation and it has no critical mitigation, making it near useless for raids.  Three, it has a potency portion that only works in pvp.  The armor and jewlery won't give any poteny for pve fights making it poor for anything other than pvp. </p><p>~Raznor </p></blockquote><p>It's actually the other way around in regards to time spent in BG vs time spent in PvE combat.  A FABLED item off the Battlegrounds merchant takes much less time to earn than getting that 1% chance of a FABLED item off an actual HARD rated instance.  A lot easier to grind out the BG too because win or lose - you're getting close to your goal.  You can't throw yourself at the boss of a hard rated instance 100 times and have him say - "Oh well, you tried, here, have a FABLED item."</p><p>There are some pieces that just absolutely blow away things found in instances.  Like for a tank the jewelry that procs wards whenever a combat art/spell is used or a certain percent of the time the tank is damaged. (The effect does NOT say 'only in pvp combat' like potency does either).  As for the resists - legendary jewelry doesn't have resists or critical mitigation either, so you aren't missing out on those things with BG jewelry.</p>

[Kizee]

<p><cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Katarzyna@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>The fact that there are only 2 PvP servers and 22 PvE servers shows that there is a lack of general interest.</blockquote><blockquote><em>The thousands of players going into the battlegrounds disagree with you. You apparently can't understand the difference between a PvP server and the battlegrounds.</em></blockquote></blockquote><p>They are popular because it is easier to get gear that is equal or better than PvE gear and it is killing the PvE game since nobody is running instances anymore.</p><p>I am sure that if they made the BG armor BG only then it would be a ghost town.</p>

[glowsintheda]

<p>Cloaks for example look to be best in slot from the BG merchant, espically for tanks, 5% max health is pretty dang nice, and its not like any other cloaks have crit mit on them so not like you are losing out on that.</p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>Kizee wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>They are popular because it is easier to get gear that is equal or better than PvE gear and it is killing the PvE game since nobody is running instances anymore.</p><p>I am sure that if they made the BG armor BG only then it would be a ghost town.</p></blockquote><p>I can't exactly agree.</p><p>They are popular cause you press 2 buttons and you get a group with a clear task in less than 3 minutes.</p><p>This group has a guaranteed xp reward and a 'shard', and it will not take more than 15 minutes to complete.  It doesn't really matter if the people on your team can't follow instructions, don't know how to play their class, or geared in treasured island gear, your minimum reward and time spent are a fixed return for little effort and no required social interaction of peir judgement.</p><p>I'd still BG if it was just for the xp reward.  I fully expect my alts to have a set of raid gear waiting for them at level 90, and I don't particularly plan to use this BG gear for anything outside of BG's.  (except for some highly situational reasons).</p>

[Valdaglerion]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Kizee wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>They are popular because it is easier to get gear that is equal or better than PvE gear and it is killing the PvE game since nobody is running instances anymore.</p><p>I am sure that if they made the BG armor BG only then it would be a ghost town.</p></blockquote><p>I can't exactly agree.</p><p>They are popular cause you press 2 buttons and you get a group with a clear task in less than 3 minutes.</p><p>This group has a guaranteed xp reward and a 'shard', and it will not take more than 15 minutes to complete.  It doesn't really matter if the people on your team can't follow instructions, don't know how to play their class, or geared in treasured island gear, your minimum reward and time spent are a fixed return for little effort and no required social interaction of peir judgement.</p><p>I'd still BG if it was just for the xp reward.  I fully expect my alts to have a set of raid gear waiting for them at level 90, and I don't particularly plan to use this BG gear for anything outside of BG's.  (except for some highly situational reasons).</p></blockquote><p>The issue with the gear isnt comparable to raiding but it is pretty much destroying the heroic content and general quest grouping of the game.</p><p>I tend to play quite a bit and do most of what the game has to offer. My thoughts on it . . . </p><p><ol><li>BG gear is superior to anything dropping in the heroic instances</li><li>BG gear takes much less time and investment to obtain. I spent 6-7 hours of BGs to get the chest piece. That was 40 heroic group tokens and 40 x2 raid tokens for that piece. That 6-7 hours included afk's, zoning, queing, etc as well. I know I ran WOE about 20-25 times before I got my chest piece to drop in there.</li><li>BG = no debt AND +xp or +aa (they are a no risk, high reward area)</li></ol><div>So naturally, people are going to flock there to gear up. I do tend to agree that if the gear was flagged BG only they would be relative ghost towns. The instances are fun the first 10 times you do them maybe, pretty grindy after.</div><div></div><div>More troubling is seeing people now putting together BG groups to do premade groups to gear up rather than running heroic instances. </div><div></div><div></div></p>

[Zabom]

Part of the problem is the greater separation between instance gear and raid gear with this expansion. With the exception of a couple charms I have seen nothing drop in any of the new instances that is an upgrade to my t8 raid gear. That is where bg has filled the void. A few bg pieces and you now have high enough resists to survive the lower lvl T9 raid zones.

[Yimway]

<p><cite>Artemiz@The Bazaar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><div>More troubling is seeing people now putting together BG groups to do premade groups to gear up rather than running heroic instances. </div><div></div><div></div></blockquote><p>Honestly, this notion is pretty laughable to me.</p><p>One grouping WoE seems a faster / more likely means of gearing up.  Though I guess if you truely never expect to set foot in a raid, you might consider using some BG gear.</p><p>However, its rather funny what happens when someone tries to raid with BG gear on...  <SPLAT></p><p>I  know many people in game, and the number that intend to not set foot in raid zones at all is pretty low to me.</p><p>I still think the main reason people are doing BG's is they are effortless, fast, entertaining, and offer quick xp.  The BG gear amounts to a minor bonus that would be used in a few slots maybe for PVE play.</p>

[Dareena]

<p>The reason that heroic grouping is struggling right now is that SF PvE itemization stinks.  TSO went too far off of the curve, so SF is trying to correct this issue.  I can understand this as a player who can view the game's itemization with a long term mentality.  Having said that, SF shard (mark) gear makes me laugh.  The sheer cost of the Marks per T2 Heroic item slot is enough to make me choke and isn't a substancial upgrade to my TSO T4 raid armor.  With that in mind, what choice do people have?</p><p>Right now, the best Heroic itemization path is the BG gear route.  Based on what I've been hearing from people, the SF instances haven't been criting people.  Critical Mitigation is now becoming a Raid stat and not a Heroic stat.  As a result, a full set of BG armor is the perfect tool for running the SF Heroic instances.  It has a good ratio of time vs effort to obtain your armor pieces and far more sane than grinding vast amounts of Marks.  My own personal plan is to farm a full BG armor set for my main for both BG and PvE Heroic use.  (I really don't have the time or willingness to commit myself to a raid guild lifestyle these days.  So for me, the BG system is an ideal substitute.)</p><p>Right now, people who want to raid have a few choices.  New raiders can farm WoE for their T3 patterns.  Once the upcoming change in implimented, TSO T3 patterns will act like TSO T4 patterns and just have a shard cost (without the T2 armor requirement).  This gives people a very good base line for starting out raiding.</p><p>Then people can take their T2 Heroic SF / T3 Raid TSO armor and start to raid TSO T4 armor zones.  By farming up these pieces at 90th level, they can clear zones that were once rather difficult in the TSO era with far less.</p><p>After finally gearing themselves out in T4 TSO, people start their SF raiding.  Though I've heard reports that a few of the entry Easy T1 raid mobs don't require Crit Mit, the requirement for a raider's Crit Mit rapidly increases.</p><p>That's why people aren't running SF Heroic instances.  The only reason to do them are for charms slots, a couple of jewelry slots, and M1 drops.  Some people will consistently run these zones for those specific drop chances.  Other people are currently farming the BG system for a set of BG armor & jewelry which they'll later use for PvE purposes.</p>