ok soooo TBH

[toopoc]

<p>THIS PVP SUCKS!!! give me your job ohilin i wont mess up the pvp like you have... do you honestly even play this game? if so send me a tell so i can tell you what is wrong the current pvp... until then dont do any more changes unless its rolling back to how pvp was in previous expansions...</p><p>PS. you guys should add a money back guarantee for unhappy customers...</p>

[Cloakentuna]

<p>Lulz.</p><p>Yeah, pvp now is worse than before, something I didn't think possible.  There were actually alot of posts in the beta forums about what was wrong with pvp, including a stupidly long wall of text by me, and he said he agreed with most of the things and that they would be fixing those issues, except now they've made evreything worse.</p><p>He claims to play a toon in FP iirc, though idk what it's name is, don't think he's allowed to tell us <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[toopoc]

<p>yea its completely stupid he didnt listen to anything... hes a liar as much as he is dumb.. ive got screen shots of me auto attacking people for 1-30 dmg and grey wizards and warlocks hitting me for 10k plus... not to mention bruiser knockbacks are now resistable.. and this "Fails to inflict any damage" bug needs to be fixed and before anyonnneeee says its cause of wards... i got a screen shot of what it says when someone wards... FIX YOUR GAME OHILIN! NOW! dont wait a month... take the servers down and fix it NOWWW or gimme my 39.99 back!</p><p>i play to pvp, and this is nowhere near pvp...</p>

[Roald]

<p>Honestly, I barely PvP in T8/9 anymore. It's no fun at all. It's a shame, because I honestly feel Olihin is trying wholeheartedly to improve PvP. But it isn't working. Not in the slightest.</p><p>The new resist changes? Really bad. Aside from being completely borked in general, they favour priests so much it's crazy.</p><p>Removing crit mit? I hated the crit mit mechanic. I thought it was stupid that players with great gear and high crit bonus would effectively do the same damage as someone with almost no crit bonus against someone with high crit mit (which was basically everyone). But the damage being done in PvP now is stupid. Maybe it will tone down when we have full toughness gear, but you shouldn't base PvP around people having a certain set of gear. The basic principles need to be sound, otherwise no amount of gear will make it truely balanced.</p><p>Add to that the massive list of things that were wrong with PvP already in TSO. Fame system, Reward system etc.</p><p>It's funny, I heard the saying about sony gradually spoiling each game they had when I first started playing EQ2 (my first mmo). I didn't believe it at all, I thought it wasn't possible. But as it stands, almost every PvP update since the servers launched has made it less fun. Don't get me wrong, there are some great changes in there. But I'd give anything right now to go back to a time where people would evac from you incombat, zone /exit away from you, thugs you into combat etc, because at least that PvP had some good points about it.</p><p>It is really so much to ask for a PvP system that improves over time in an mmo? Or one that at least stays fun on a basic level? Because so far its gone from Bad to worse...to terrible.</p>

[toopoc]

<p><cite>Lickle@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Honestly, I barely PvP in T8/9 anymore. It's no fun at all. It's a shame, because I honestly feel Olihin is trying wholeheartedly to improve PvP. But it isn't working. Not in the slightest.</p><p>The new resist changes? Really bad. Aside from being completely borked in general, they favour priests so much it's crazy.</p><p>Removing crit mit? I hated the crit mit mechanic. I thought it was stupid that players with great gear and high crit bonus would effectively do the same damage as someone with almost no crit bonus against someone with high crit mit (which was basically everyone). But the damage being done in PvP now is stupid. Maybe it will tone down when we have full toughness gear, but you shouldn't base PvP around people having a certain set of gear. The basic principles need to be sound, otherwise no amount of gear will make it truely balanced.</p><p>Add to that the massive list of things that were wrong with PvP already in TSO. Fame system, Reward system etc.</p><p>It's funny, I heard the saying about sony gradually spoiling each game they had when I first started playing EQ2 (my first mmo). I didn't believe it at all, I thought it wasn't possible. But as it stands, almost every PvP update since the servers launched has made it less fun. Don't get me wrong, there are some great changes in there. But I'd give anything right now to go back to a time where people would evac from you incombat, zone /exit away from you, thugs you into combat etc, because at least that PvP had some good points about it.</p><p>It is really so much to ask for a PvP system that improves over time in an mmo? Or one that at least stays fun on a basic level? Because so far its gone from Bad to worse...to terrible.</p></blockquote><p>THIS... milambers said everything on my mind... what would be a fantastic idea is to take a poll or something of whoever is the best at the class they play in pvp and make them people the devs of that class for pvp and require them to test it on test servers and give feedback not these [Removed for Content] we call SOE... SOE ruined SWG and well.. eq2 has been ruined for sometime... but eh the pvp in tso was better than no pvp...</p>

[Armironhead]

<p>i always said that eq2 pvp, bugs and all, was better when soe paid no attention to it.  When soe tries to help it trips over its own shlong consistently.  So I say in 2010 lets go with no pvp dev for eq2 pvp. (whew in b4 the lock).</p>

[Novusod]

<p>They need to do a comprehensive redesign of the way resists work. Grey mages should not be able to one shot level 90s. That is just stupid. Shadow Knights are practically unkillable even grey con SKs. I am reluctant to ever call for a nerf but SKs really need a nerf. Ballance should be based one the principle that the more damage one class can do = the less damage they can take. Plate mages that can heal like a cleric = failed pvp ballance.</p><p>Also what is with this hitting someone or getting hit and instantly getting put into combat. They need roll that back so it is still possible to get away from gankers.</p>

[Prophesy]

<p>I dont even try to fight back anymore, it really just bums me when a mage can 2 shot me, even if i somehow cure his root, toss up a ward and start beating on him 1 more spell will eat my 11k ward and another will just bend me over and spank me like  schoolgirl.  This is by far the worst pvp ever.  If you say you like it then your a mage, period! I'm seriously debating on taking a break , cancelling my account whatever.  I dont care if mage's hit hard, but serious to 2 shot lvl 90's even if they 80? [Removed for Content] game are you playing GM?.... oh wait, you play a conjy dont you?? OOOOOO Where is the game balance at? I Will take crusaders being op and killing groups again, just reroll this crap pvp.</p>

[Muraazi]

<p>Yup something is obvioiusly bugged atm. No clue what it is, everything seems inconsistant. Sorcs taking almost no damage whatsoever. Failed to inflict damage seems to happen a hell of a lot on them for some reason (not mana shielded). Certain CC spells resist almost everytime.</p><p>I've had a guild warlock tell me he has stood up to an entire group beating on him.</p><p>This entering combat thing is pretty annoying too. It's almost like an entirely different pvp ruleset.</p>

[Sprin]

<p><cite>Muraazi wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This entering combat thing is pretty annoying too. It's almost like an entirely different pvp ruleset.</p></blockquote><p>You mean sort of like one that was changed but never tested by anyone outside their office because they didnt give us a PVP test server?  THAT sort of different pvp ruleset?</p><p>Obviously the people at SOE pvp "testgrounds" dont pvp on a regular basis and hence why you get absolutely lame "updates" to pvp...</p><p>they dont let us test PVP changes and if they do, they dont listen to us because their "test team" thought it was okay, so ... wow, they must be right...?</p><p>Like the engaging the victims "update" that needs to go away fast...</p>

[Brimestar]

Mages should be glass cannons...Now, greys shouldn't be able to one shot ppl...But mages, should do the DEEPs (but not a "one shot" and classes that are just insane are Conjs and Locks)....but if someone (aka a melee class) gets close, the mage should fall over....Dead.

[Duotang]

<p><cite>Brimestar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Mages should be glass cannons...Now, greys shouldn't be able to one shot ppl...But mages, should do the DEEPs (but not a "one shot" and classes that are just insane are Conjs and Locks)....but if someone (aka a melee class) gets close, the mage should fall over....Dead.</blockquote><p>Hey look, it's Brimestar...............master of blessings and miracles!</p>

[Prophesy]

<p>TBH i havent killed a mage yet solo and im a 90 monk, 205 aa, full t8 pvp gear and rok jewelry, nice other loot , like ea charm etc , even at launch i couldnt kill a mage, still cant even if they 80, i get straight (censored), no bounds how bad your pride hurts when your spanked by a grey, griefed 1 more time , then he laughs at your rez spot [Removed for Content]... RAGE... I just set up a emote hotkey to dance and cry , lol, whats sad is sometimes i cant even click it before im dead.. 2 shotted of course.. but yeah he said this is balanced pvp, that we need toughness gear... tbh im more afraid to fight them when they have toughness gear when im barely hitting them in their current gear for i think max was under 500!</p>

[Brimestar]

<p><cite>Duotang@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Brimestar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Mages should be glass cannons...Now, greys shouldn't be able to one shot ppl...But mages, should do the DEEPs (but not a "one shot" and classes that are just insane are Conjs and Locks)....but if someone (aka a melee class) gets close, the mage should fall over....Dead.</blockquote><p>Hey look, it's Brimestar...............master of blessings and miracles!</p></blockquote><p>awww, another fan.... Did i disrespect you and actually use an intended game mechanic and kill you? (as opposed to something that slid in due to negligence or just apathy) and did i use too big of a word for you?</p>

[Roald]

<p>I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say this: anyone that says 'mage' when talking about PvP is stupid. You don't see people saying fighters are overpowered when an SK takes out 5 people. They say SKs ae overpowered, because SK =! guardian. In the same way that right now enchanters are pretty useless in PvP, and sorcerers/conjs are owning people in seconds.</p><p>So please, don't use the word mage when talking about a specific few classes.</p>

[Sprin]

<p><cite>Orphen1983 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>TBH i havent killed a mage yet solo and im a 90 monk, 205 aa, full t8 pvp gear and rok jewelry, nice other loot , like ea charm etc , even at launch i couldnt kill a mage, still cant even if they 80, i get straight (censored), no bounds how bad your pride hurts when your spanked by a grey, griefed 1 more time , then he laughs at your rez spot [Removed for Content]... RAGE... I just set up a emote hotkey to dance and cry , lol, whats sad is sometimes i cant even click it before im dead.. 2 shotted of course.. but yeah he said this is balanced pvp, that we need toughness gear... tbh im more afraid to fight them when they have toughness gear when im barely hitting them in their current gear for i think max was under 500!</p></blockquote><p>Powerleveling FTL</p>

[Prophesy]

<p>I was max aa for 8 months or more..(censored) pl for the lose? are you kidding?</p>

[Prophesy]

<p>I would smack you in the mouth if i could but would be an endless 20min fight with someone jumping off the cliff! And get no update btw, how lame is that!</p>

[PeaSy1]

You do realize that its people that complained originally that made gms change stuff and its the same idiots doing it now. This game has tons of flaws but no need to blame soe when its u that screwed it up. The resist issue has already been mentioned as not working properly by olihin. All these changes (fame, etc) is cause by the rejects that abused the system originally.

[Prophesy]

<p>I have tbh never complained about the pvp at all, even fighting sk's i just said whatever it is what it is.  But yeah this is (censored), unplayable pvp.  He is right its b/c the only ones feedbacking were the people wanting a change and they went off that... now, the problem was lack of testing and just tossed it into live.  THAT IS SOE"S fault, give me a pvp test server ill play on it everytime they want to implement a change just to try it, and make this server without having the chat restrictions to actually be able to ask to fight certain classes etc.. how hard is that to do ..</p>

[Armironhead]

<p>the problem is that they tried to do too much at once.  Hell one thing is too much for soe, but here they did the stat nerf, resists and the crit mit/toughness changes all at the same time.  There was simply too much possibility for f ups.  The funny thing was that with the giving away of t8 pvp gear, pvp had attained a sort of balance.  It wasnt great but it was fairly even.  In fact, grp fights were probably too balanced with some of them lasting so long as to wear out your keyboard.  Now People are running around and ripping though folk and grps as if they were paper.  And its only going to get worse with the bgs coming out.  Soe is modifing our ruleset to conform to and address bg issues.  Oh and the bgs suck.  Big balls of unbalanced crap where everybody is a potential oneshot.  Its no response that its all going to work when everybody gets to 90 and has pvp/bg gear.  A system should work regardless of the gear and level of the player.  Here, things have been thrown out of wack. </p>

[toopoc]

<p><cite>Dudo@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>You do realize that its people that complained originally that made gms change stuff and its the same idiots doing it now. This game has tons of flaws but no need to blame soe when its u that screwed it up. The resist issue has already been mentioned as not working properly by olihin. All these changes (fame, etc) is cause by the rejects that abused the system originally.</blockquote><p>lol at you calling anyone a reject or an idiot..</p>

[ThomasCH]

<p>I like Olihin as well and I think he did good things for our PvP servers, but I would have to say that these recent changes are way off, this cannot be anywhere near the best way possible for our servers.</p><p>I really think he need to reconsider some of the changes because right now, PvP aint fun.</p>

[PeaSy1]

I didnt call anyone a reject/idiot in particular just a general consensus

[Naggasaki]

<p>Ok, This  PvP is utter horse crap. If you get "hit" your are automagically engaged...no matter [Removed for Content] you were or are targeting or doing....if you engage someone, all they have to do is FD and combat is over? give me a fooking break SoE. I've been here for four years and dealt with some silly changes to your pvp system but this is, by far, the worst mechanics i have ever seen.</p><p>FIX IT PLZKTHXBAI</p>

[dr4gonUK]

<p>+1</p><p>@olihin</p><p>If i was you i would very carefully read the posts in this thread. You have broken our beloved open world pvp beyond comprehension. 17k hp guard getting 2-3 shot by grey mages is not acceptable. There was NO reason for you to change mechanics the way you have.</p><p>Maybe if you had put the effort from creating battlegrounds™ into fixing pvp we might not have this problem.</p><p>And fyi battlegrounds is a cheap attempt at mimicing wow. How dare you drag the eq pedigree through the mud in such a way, even if it wasnt your idea.</p><p>Do not defend soe either. They had 18months to get it right. There are no excuses.</p><p>Some say you are trying to turn us away from open world pvp and towards battlegrounds. I hope that isnt the truth, because that will probably be the death of Nagafen.</p>

[KrickZan]

<p>just bring back old fame system and body dropped tokens in open world... and make BG rewards effective only inside BGs</p>

[Toxicz]

<p>I have to agree with milambers on pretty much everything.</p><p>You wanna fix this game ohilin? Here I'll help you out.</p><p>1. Bring back fame lose. When fame got removed it made pvp better for a short time, now without fame people don't care about anything, just zerg zerg zerg. Before the expansion pvp was in one place and one place only...KP. At least when fame was around it wasn't just a massive zerg at the docks, people actually used the other 3 zones. You said in 1-9 the other day that "group vs group" isn't even common anymore, do you have any idea why? it makes zergging harder that's why. If you brought fame back, thats all you would see, which for most people is the best kind of pvp.</p><p>2. You should have left crit mit alone. I agree with  milambers on the gear shouldn't be the balance for everything in pvp, but tbh at least when crit mit worked in pvp it gave most people a chance, some more than others (healers/crusaders). This toughness change was... just stupid tbh</p><p>3. FIX RESISTS and spell damage.. Now I'm not even sure how this was broke in the first place. I know that many people are having non-resistible spells being resisted on GREY'S, hell my double up is being resisted and ITS NOT EVEN A SPELL. Grey mages one-shotting people is probably one of the dumbest things I've seen in this game in a long time. Sorcerers/conji's shouldn't be one-shotting people or dropping them from 100 to 30 in one spell, especially if there 10 levels below that person.</p><p>4. last but not least, listen to what the players want. If you need help ask those who don't seem completely stupid for there opinions, mostly everyone right know has the same consensus about what pvpers want. Last expansion you let SK's stay completely overpowered, lets not have a repeat of that with sorcerers/conji's, OK?</p><p>Ohilin, You and you alone can make pvp great again or worse(if that's possible). Your decision good luck.</p>

[Jamil]

<p>hi.</p>

[Zacarus]

<p><p>toopoc> THIS PVP SUCKS!!</p><p>Lickle> Because so far its gone from Bad to worse...to terrible.</p><p>Froggleg> Yeah, pvp now is worse than before, something I didn't think possible.</p><p>Armironhead> eq2 pvp, bugs and all, was better when soe paid no attention to it.</p><p>Muraazi> everything seems inconsistant</p><p>Ghettoblaster> hence why you get absolutely lame "updates" to pvp...</p><p>Orphen1983> But yeah this is (censored), unplayable pvp.</p><p>ThomasCH> right now, PvP aint fun.</p><p>Naggasaki> Ok, This  PvP is utter horse crap.</p><p>Tanx> You have broken our beloved open world pvp beyond comprehension.</p><p>KrickZan> just bring back old fame system</p><p>Toxicz> listen to what the players want.</p><p>-------------------</p><p><a href="http://community.dimmak.com/blog/files/2009/02/mcfly.jpg" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://community.dimmak.com/blog/fi...09/02/mcfly.jpg</a></p></p>

[Darkor]

<p><cite>Zacarus@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>toopoc> THIS PVP SUCKS!!</p><p>Lickle> Because so far its gone from Bad to worse...to terrible.</p><p>Froggleg> Yeah, pvp now is worse than before, something I didn't think possible.</p><p>Armironhead> eq2 pvp, bugs and all, was better when soe paid no attention to it.</p><p>Muraazi> everything seems inconsistant</p><p>Ghettoblaster> hence why you get absolutely lame "updates" to pvp...</p><p>Orphen1983> But yeah this is (censored), unplayable pvp.</p><p>ThomasCH> right now, PvP aint fun.</p><p>Naggasaki> Ok, This  PvP is utter horse crap.</p><p>Tanx> You have broken our beloved open world pvp beyond comprehension.</p><p>KrickZan> just bring back old fame system</p><p>Toxicz> listen to what the players want.</p><p>-------------------</p><p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://community.dimmak.com/blog/files/2009/02/mcfly.jpg" target="_blank">http://community.dimmak.com/blog/fi...09/02/mcfly.jpg</a></p></blockquote><p>Please add me to that list. Toughness has killed open world pvp. Bluebie stats have no room on pvp server, remove it immeaditly to restore whats left on our server.</p>

[Yahshua]

<p><cite>Ajjantis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Zacarus@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>toopoc> THIS PVP SUCKS!!</p><p>Lickle> Because so far its gone from Bad to worse...to terrible.</p><p>Froggleg> Yeah, pvp now is worse than before, something I didn't think possible.</p><p>Armironhead> eq2 pvp, bugs and all, was better when soe paid no attention to it.</p><p>Muraazi> everything seems inconsistant</p><p>Ghettoblaster> hence why you get absolutely lame "updates" to pvp...</p><p>Orphen1983> But yeah this is (censored), unplayable pvp.</p><p>ThomasCH> right now, PvP aint fun.</p><p>Naggasaki> Ok, This  PvP is utter horse crap.</p><p>Tanx> You have broken our beloved open world pvp beyond comprehension.</p><p>KrickZan> just bring back old fame system</p><p>Toxicz> listen to what the players want.</p><p>-------------------</p><p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://community.dimmak.com/blog/files/2009/02/mcfly.jpg" target="_blank">http://community.dimmak.com/blog/fi...09/02/mcfly.jpg</a></p></blockquote><p>Please add me to that list. Toughness has killed open world pvp. Bluebie stats have no room on pvp server, remove it immeaditly to restore whats left on our server.</p></blockquote><p>Add me as well.  I've lost all desire to play this game anymore; it's about as fun as a stomach pump.</p>

[PeaSy1]

Toughness is a bluebie stat?

[Darkor]

<p><cite>Dudo@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Toughness is a bluebie stat?</blockquote><p>Yes, its designed for Battlegrounds, not open pvp. When you go to Battlegrounds, you equip all your battleground items increasing all your toughness. In open pvp theres no chance you can keep switching your items between your pvp and your pve stat. Im out all day questing and hunting and every few minuts i run into a player; I have no desire having to carry 2 complete sets of armor with me along with 2 handfull of macros to switch my stuff every 5 minut. And since you cant switch items incombat the whole toughness thing was doomed to fail from the first day on. I and several other have warned our pvp dev plenty times, but he decided to ignore the warnings and go this very bad route. GL to him getting out of this.</p>

[max.power]

<p><cite>Toxicz@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>1. Bring back fame lose. When fame got removed it made pvp better for a short time, <strong>now without fame people don't care about anything, just zerg zerg zerg</strong>. Before the expansion pvp was in one place and one place only...KP. At least when fame was around it wasn't just a massive zerg at the docks, people actually used the other 3 zones. You said in 1-9 the other day that "group vs group" isn't even common anymore, do you have any idea why? it makes zergging harder that's why. If you brought fame back, thats all you would see, which for most people is the best kind of pvp.</p></blockquote><p>To comment the bold part: Are you really really sure that no fame loss is the key part behind zerging?</p><p>I see it like this: Whenever massive PvP happens, concentrated in one zone, zerging is part of it. Massive battles happened not because of no fame loss, they happened because of the awesome rewards we got at the end of the expansion and the somewhat flawed writ system (i.e. getting writ updates even when you lie dead on the ground, solo).</p><p>So, in my opinion we would have had massive battles (with revive zerging) even WITH fame loss, because the primary goal for most of the people in KP was the gear, not the fame. The new - and in a reasonable timeframe obtainable - gear was driving people out, which is a good thing in the first place. Yes, I know that the rate at which we were able to get full PvP sets was too high, but it just was some kind of summer sale.</p><p>If you want to blame someone/something for having massive battles with zerging: Blame it on the rewards, the flawed writ system, the speed at which we could get the gear and the end of an expansion with lots of bored people with nothing else to do. Fame wouldn't have played a big role I think...</p>

[Toxicz]

<p>TBH my point wasn't pointed at zerging, more or less at the fact that now or before the expansion the only place that had pvp was KP, and it consisted of nothing but a zerg fest. Back when fame was around you would always find groups or more in all the zones, it wasn't just focused completely on KP like it is now. I'm not saying bringing back fame would get rid of the zerg completely but it would certainly  reduce it and make people go back to group pvp and using all of the zones vs just using KP.</p>

[PeaSy1]

<p><cite>Toxicz@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>TBH my point wasn't pointed at zerging, more or less at the fact that now or before the expansion the only place that had pvp was KP, and it consisted of nothing but a zerg fest. Back when fame was around you would always find groups or more in all the zones, it wasn't just focused completely on KP like it is now. I'm not saying bringing back fame would get rid of the zerg completely but it would certainly  reduce it and make people go back to group pvp and using all of the zones vs just using KP.</p></blockquote><p>This is kinda wrong in.... all of rok pvp primarily consisted in kp the only people in other zones were soloers and an occasional group making a run through the zones. But 90% of pvp went down in kp and at contested as did in tso the difference is that with how much faster you could obtain pvp gear and how fast you could reach endgame. But the story is still the same and it was the same in kos/eof where all endgame pvp happened in barren sky and the other zones were only touched for same reason they are now and it was the same people doing it.</p><p>People are just getting lazy and going where the pvp is at and everybody knew it was in kp..</p><p>Its actually kinda nice now cause pvp is spread all over for the questings.</p>

[Armironhead]

<p><cite>Brain@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Toxicz@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>1. Bring back fame lose. When fame got removed it made pvp better for a short time, <strong>now without fame people don't care about anything, just zerg zerg zerg</strong>. Before the expansion pvp was in one place and one place only...KP. At least when fame was around it wasn't just a massive zerg at the docks, people actually used the other 3 zones. You said in 1-9 the other day that "group vs group" isn't even common anymore, do you have any idea why? it makes zergging harder that's why. If you brought fame back, thats all you would see, which for most people is the best kind of pvp.</p></blockquote><p>To comment the bold part: Are you really really sure that no fame loss is the key part behind zerging?</p><p>I see it like this: Whenever massive PvP happens, concentrated in one zone, zerging is part of it. Massive battles happened not because of no fame loss, they happened because of the awesome rewards we got at the end of the expansion and the somewhat flawed writ system (i.e. getting writ updates even when you lie dead on the ground, solo).</p><p>So, in my opinion we would have had massive battles (with revive zerging) even WITH fame loss, because the primary goal for most of the people in KP was the gear, not the fame. The new - and in a reasonable timeframe obtainable - gear was driving people out, which is a good thing in the first place. Yes, I know that the rate at which we were able to get full PvP sets was too high, but it just was some kind of summer sale.</p><p>If you want to blame someone/something for having massive battles with zerging: Blame it on the rewards, the flawed writ system, the speed at which we could get the gear and the end of an expansion with lots of bored people with nothing else to do. Fame wouldn't have played a big role I think...</p></blockquote><p>The zerg is a result of a number of bad mistakes made by soe. Primarily : 1) removal of a death penalty; 2) removal of herioc overland content, 3) the introduction of instant overland travel and 4) the introduction of numerous instances.Fame loss was a brake on zerging.  There were always some people that hated losing fame and it thus limited the zerg.  Really any death penalty would help slow the zerg and since soe removed fame it removed death as a factor and as a result the zerg has continually built in intensity.  At the same time soe made it so there is no reason for pvp'ers to hunt in the wild.  There is no overland herioc content, thus once the questing is done the zones become dead of life and there is nobody to hunt.  As for instances, you used to be able to hunt people going to and from instances, but instant overland travel ended that.  When you add it all up it means that there is no incentive for people to spred out and no incentive for people not to zerg.</p>

[Chia_Pet]

<p>Honestly, I dont have a problem with a green beating an orange, and if played really well a grey(10 lvls or less) winning on occasion to a red. what it does is make ganking less effective, whioch is good to me. Now that being said, the idea of 1 to 3 shotting somoen, especailly a grey doing it to a red is unacceptable. I dont have a problem with a tank standing up to 2-4 players either, what I DO have a problem with is that tank killing them all.</p><p>the game is just unbalanced, the idea that a raider can put all that work into raiding and not have it count much in PvP is lame, as well as it is lame for someone who Pvps most of the time having a hard time surviving when he/she does raid or go into an instance.</p><p>The whole Idea that the 2 should be seperated can now be EASILY seen as a huge mistake, and yes SOE was waarned EXACTLY what the outcome would be. Look trying to seperate the 2 types of Play (PvP and PvE) is just wrong, they should coexist side by side and complement each other, end of story.</p><p>SOE needs to get thier heads out of thier you know whats, the current PvP armor honestly looks like crap to me, it should have crit mit on it, and if the PvE devs are adamant in not allowing toughness onto the raid gear, at least make toughness adornments that can only be added to non toughness armor so that the raiders can have it too.</p><p>Simply put , there is NO good arguement for splitting both playstyles. And there is NOTHING wrong with having an alternate path for Top End Gear on the PvP servers.</p>

[Vishiimtar]

<p>You all should roll a new toon for t6 / t7 pvp. No one one shots anyone <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Darkor]

<p><cite>Vishiimtar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You all should roll a new toon for t6 / t7 pvp. No one one shots anyone <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Lvl locking in pvp is disabled. I would definitly keep 1-2 chars in a lower tier range</p>

[Siphar]

<p><ul><li>No zerg'ing</li><li>Overland PvP</li><li>Nothing too imbalanced to write home about apart from EB (conj)</li><li>Plenty of pvp</li><li>Engaged when either person is attacked = awesome</li><li>Having the best pvp in ages</li></ul></p>

[Fanatical]

<p>Putting your target into pvp combat is a good change imo, means more pvp</p><p>Just fix resists</p>

[Neskonlith]

<p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Watching the lvl90s 1-2shot tons of green con questers in Quel'ule, thereby preventing players from progressing seems kinda lame after a while.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">It's always funnier when it happens to someone else...</span></p>

[Armironhead]

<p><cite>Siphar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><ul><li>No zerg'ing</li><li>Overland PvP</li><li>Nothing too imbalanced to write home about apart from EB (conj)</li><li>Plenty of pvp</li><li>Engaged when either person is attacked = awesome</li><li>Having the best pvp in ages</li></ul></p></blockquote><p>what you mean to say is that while people are out leveling up and questing the pvp is back to normal, the way it was pre-rok.  How long will that last?  People are already maxed out exp wise.  The overland zones are deadends because they are only useable once.  When the questing is done for the majority of the folk in a couple of weeks or so, the zerg will be on again.  As for imbalnce, resists are out of wack, gear is borked, and stats are screwed.  Folk are ripping through grps of players at a time.  I've killed people that would have given me significant trouble preexp as if they were afk even though my gear and spells have not really changed.  Other people have expereinced the same thing.  As for runners being forced into combat, its loads of fun until it gets old, and it has.  No challenge = no fun.</p>

[Neskonlith]

<p><cite>Armironhead@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>what you mean to say is that while people are out leveling up and questing the pvp is back to normal, the way it was pre-rok.  How long will that last?  People are already maxed out exp wise.  The overland zones are deadends because they are only useable once.  When the questing is done for the majority of the folk in a couple of weeks or so, the zerg will be on again.  As for imbalnce, resists are out of wack, gear is borked, and stats are screwed.  Folk are ripping through grps of players at a time.  I've killed people that would have given me significant trouble preexp as if they were afk even though my gear and spells have not really changed.  Other people have expereinced the same thing.  As for runners being forced into combat, its loads of fun until it gets old, and it has.  No challenge = no fun.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">"Baby-punching" greenies is fun for a while, but I know some of them will not return to open-world after they got 1-shot so much trying to do stuff - I'm hearing BGs being touted more as an option to actively avoid open-world, but time will tell.</span></p>

[Armironhead]

<p><cite>Neskonlith wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Armironhead@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>what you mean to say is that while people are out leveling up and questing the pvp is back to normal, the way it was pre-rok.  How long will that last?  People are already maxed out exp wise.  The overland zones are deadends because they are only useable once.  When the questing is done for the majority of the folk in a couple of weeks or so, the zerg will be on again.  As for imbalnce, resists are out of wack, gear is borked, and stats are screwed.  Folk are ripping through grps of players at a time.  I've killed people that would have given me significant trouble preexp as if they were afk even though my gear and spells have not really changed.  Other people have expereinced the same thing.  As for runners being forced into combat, its loads of fun until it gets old, and it has.  No challenge = no fun.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">"Baby-punching" greenies is fun for a while, but I know some of them will not return to open-world after they got 1-shot so much trying to do stuff - I'm hearing BGs being touted more as an option to actively avoid open-world, but time will tell.</span></p></blockquote><p>if the bgs launch the way they were in beta, its going to turn off more newbees then bring to the game.  They were very unbalanced, one shot, spawn camping, poorly designed screwups.</p>

[Taim_MAzrom]

<p><cite>Ajjantis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Zacarus@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>toopoc> THIS PVP SUCKS!!</p><p>Lickle> Because so far its gone from Bad to worse...to terrible.</p><p>Froggleg> Yeah, pvp now is worse than before, something I didn't think possible.</p><p>Armironhead> eq2 pvp, bugs and all, was better when soe paid no attention to it.</p><p>Muraazi> everything seems inconsistant</p><p>Ghettoblaster> hence why you get absolutely lame "updates" to pvp...</p><p>Orphen1983> But yeah this is (censored), unplayable pvp.</p><p>ThomasCH> right now, PvP aint fun.</p><p>Naggasaki> Ok, This  PvP is utter horse crap.</p><p>Tanx> You have broken our beloved open world pvp beyond comprehension.</p><p>KrickZan> just bring back old fame system</p><p>Toxicz> listen to what the players want.</p><p>-------------------</p><p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://community.dimmak.com/blog/files/2009/02/mcfly.jpg" target="_blank">http://community.dimmak.com/blog/fi...09/02/mcfly.jpg</a></p></blockquote><p>Please add me to that list. Toughness has killed open world pvp. Bluebie stats have no room on pvp server, remove it immeaditly to restore whats left on our server.</p></blockquote><p>lol, no pve stats on pvp server; what of our other stats? str int mit hp mp ect</p>

[Cloakentuna]

<p><cite>Armironhead@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Neskonlith wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Armironhead@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>what you mean to say is that while people are out leveling up and questing the pvp is back to normal, the way it was pre-rok.  How long will that last?  People are already maxed out exp wise.  The overland zones are deadends because they are only useable once.  When the questing is done for the majority of the folk in a couple of weeks or so, the zerg will be on again.  As for imbalnce, resists are out of wack, gear is borked, and stats are screwed.  Folk are ripping through grps of players at a time.  I've killed people that would have given me significant trouble preexp as if they were afk even though my gear and spells have not really changed.  Other people have expereinced the same thing.  As for runners being forced into combat, its loads of fun until it gets old, and it has.  No challenge = no fun.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">"Baby-punching" greenies is fun for a while, but I know some of them will not return to open-world after they got 1-shot so much trying to do stuff - I'm hearing BGs being touted more as an option to actively avoid open-world, but time will tell.</span></p></blockquote><p>if the bgs launch the way they were in beta, its going to turn off more newbees then bring to the game.  They were very unbalanced, one shot, spawn camping, poorly designed screwups.</p></blockquote><p>QFE</p>

[Toxicz]

<p><cite>Froggleg@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Armironhead@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Neskonlith wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Armironhead@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>what you mean to say is that while people are out leveling up and questing the pvp is back to normal, the way it was pre-rok.  How long will that last?  People are already maxed out exp wise.  The overland zones are deadends because they are only useable once.  When the questing is done for the majority of the folk in a couple of weeks or so, the zerg will be on again.  As for imbalnce, resists are out of wack, gear is borked, and stats are screwed.  Folk are ripping through grps of players at a time.  I've killed people that would have given me significant trouble preexp as if they were afk even though my gear and spells have not really changed.  Other people have expereinced the same thing.  As for runners being forced into combat, its loads of fun until it gets old, and it has.  No challenge = no fun.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">"Baby-punching" greenies is fun for a while, but I know some of them will not return to open-world after they got 1-shot so much trying to do stuff - I'm hearing BGs being touted more as an option to actively avoid open-world, but time will tell.</span></p></blockquote><p>if the bgs launch the way they were in beta, its going to turn off more newbees then bring to the game.  They were very unbalanced, one shot, spawn camping, poorly designed screwups.</p></blockquote><p>QFE</p></blockquote><p>QFE</p>

[Armironhead]

<p>lol @ cloud jumping making a comeback.  There isnt even the excuse of famesaving being around this time.  Now its just all about the fact that death is so unpainful in this game (be it pve or pvp) that it is viewed by some as being better and eaiser to kill yourself then give the other side an update.</p>

[Roald]

<p><cite>Armironhead@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>if the bgs launch the way they were in beta, its going to turn off more newbees then bring to the game.  They were very unbalanced, one shot, spawn camping, poorly designed screwups.</p></blockquote><p>Basically the open PvP we have at the moment?</p><p>I know that myself and many of my guildies, from one of the biggest PvP guilds on the server, are hoping something changes about this PvP, because after the initial excitement of running the new zones a few times wears off, there won't be much to log in for.</p>

[rareyrare]

<p><cite>Armironhead@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>lol @ cloud jumping making a comeback.  There isnt even the excuse of famesaving being around this time.  Now its just all about the fact that death is so unpainful in this game (be it pve or pvp) that it is viewed by some as being better and eaiser to kill yourself then give the other side an update.</p></blockquote><p>You're right, fame has nothing to do with it. And you're right, it has EVERYTHING to do with denying the gank squads the update. Even with death penalties or 10%dmg to armor per death, I'd still do it just to deny the level 90 gank squads the update while I'm out solo questing.</p>

[Armironhead]

<p><cite>Couy@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Armironhead@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>lol @ cloud jumping making a comeback.  There isnt even the excuse of famesaving being around this time.  Now its just all about the fact that death is so unpainful in this game (be it pve or pvp) that it is viewed by some as being better and eaiser to kill yourself then give the other side an update.</p></blockquote><p>You're right, fame has nothing to do with it. And you're right, it has EVERYTHING to do with denying the gank squads the update. Even with death penalties or 10%dmg to armor per death, I'd still do it just to deny the level 90 gank squads the update while I'm out solo questing.</p></blockquote><p>I agree with you that a 10% armor ding would be likely insignificant.  But I submit, that the lack of any death penalty has greatly hurt and distorted this game.  PVP needs death to be somewhat painful, but not too painful.   The lack of a death penalty means that the game becomes distorted -  people start modifying their game play around the idea that death is meaningless - and you get such things as an unrelenting zerg and cloud jumping.  To combat, the problems in this game, I would bring back fame as a start.  As for cloud jumpers, well I always thought that their bodies should land in norrath, proper, where they would revivie say in the middle of the common lands or ant and then have to hike back or call back to their gh's to catch a port back to the zone.  I figure the inconvience of having to hike all over the world would be enough of a deterient to most for cloud jumping.</p>

[Armironhead]

<p><cite>Lickle@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Armironhead@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>if the bgs launch the way they were in beta, its going to turn off more newbees then bring to the game.  They were very unbalanced, one shot, spawn camping, poorly designed screwups.</p></blockquote><p>Basically the open PvP we have at the moment?</p><p>I know that myself and many of my guildies, from one of the biggest PvP guilds on the server, are hoping something changes about this PvP, because after the initial excitement of running the new zones a few times wears off, there won't be much to log in for.</p></blockquote><p>no, nothing like what open world is or was at any time.  I dont know what soe has been doing to the bgs in the last week or so, but when I played on them in test, it was the most unfair pvp I've ever played in this game.  Its a random match maker.  So you would get teams where one team was a premade with 2 warlocks, a couple of healers and some other stuff, and the otherside would be a pug with tank and some scout dps and no healer.  No consideration for gear or skill or spells is made.  Nor do you have the opportunity to say hey these guys are too tough lets fight someone else.  Then when you get into the arena you find that the warlocks can one shot your grp through the walls and floor and regardless of line of sight.  So in the end you have scores like 650 to 0 (an actual game i played lol).  There is also no conceed button, and you get penalized for leaving early.  So if you find out about 5 min into the game that you are being stomped, you're stuck and must sit there for the duration, or take the penalty which many did.</p><p>Now open world is not always fair, but in the old days if a x4 would role up on you all you had to do was take your death or run away.  In the end, you would know where they were and avoid them or get a group and try to pick them off.  Maybe not ideal, but workable.</p>

[Neskonlith]

<p><cite>Armironhead@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I dont know what soe has been doing to the bgs in the last week or so, but when I played on them in test, it was the most unfair pvp I've ever played in this game. </p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Open world currently has all those BG issues with OP classes, and with zero rewards for a consolation prize.  </span><span style="color: #ff0000;">Even if you get a single Token as a consolation prize for attempting the BeeGees, then already you are 1 up on open-world.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">I'm already seeing guildies pulling out of this broken game, so soon enough I anticipate there will be a more posts bemoaning the lack of pvp targets as players refuse to come out of immunty and instances once again.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Broken one-sided PVP = PVE + BeeGees ftw... which is probably not the best way to encourage more PVP.</span></p>