What is this Golden Path? [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

Brenlo

02-18-2010, 03:25 PM

I have been poking around ingame and on the forums and have noticed a lot of confusion regarding the "Golden Path" and what exactly it is. People are looking for specific NPCs or quest lines, and finding themselves stuck. So I wanted to take a moment to clarify a little and talk about what it is currently and where it is headed. The golden path is the first step in a larger revamp of our new player experience. We took a look at the starting areas, other than Qeynos and Freeport as we plan to move away from those, and reworked content so that it had a better flow. We wanted the quests in Darklight, Timorous and Greater Fay, to give you a better progression path. What you will find, is that if you start a new character, or jump into any of the quest hubs in those areas, is a more guided experience through content. We have hundreds of zones and for non veteran players, it can be intimidating trying to figure out where to go next. We wanted to remove that intimidation and give them a better play experience. So phase one is the "Golden Path" of content. A better progression of quests through various hubs starting in the three new player areas above. If you go to any of the zones listed in the update notes and start questing at one of the hubs, you are now on the "Golden Path!"Phase two, which is following in the upcoming months, will introduce the Storyteller window (which is a much better name than Golden Path) which will link quest lines together in an interface, providing the visual representation of the golden path. We want players to understand why they may be collecting 10 oranges or killing 15 Goblin Scouts and show how that evolves into a larger story. The Storyteller System will move players along through content that we feel will give them a fun and exciting experience. While also engaging them in the world, the story and their character.So that's it in a nutshell, or three paragraphs anyway. Thanks all!

Payneal The Great

02-18-2010, 03:30 PM

Nice!

Araxes

02-18-2010, 03:35 PM

And not a moment too soon!While some may complain that the experience has become too linear, I feel that a guided progression, particularly with focus up through level 70, is a much better idea than a haphazard string of slightly-but-mostly-unrelated "quests."I've blogged about this several times over the years ... good to see this is the route you guys are moving!Ara

Ciara52

02-18-2010, 03:51 PM

I think this is a great change as when I first started it was confusing as to what is the story? I've always thought Guild Wars had a great story line and it lead you from one point to the next. Guess I can go dust off some low levels and check this out <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Thank you for the clarification <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Arkenor

02-18-2010, 04:11 PM

What do you mean by "other than Qeynos and Freeport as we plan to move away from those" ?What are you going to do to them? They're extremely popular cities, with lots of excellent content. Sure, a lot of the rewards are out-dated now, but that's easily enough fixed.

Enica

02-18-2010, 04:17 PM

Great. Like I needed another reason to start an alt. I was really trying to hold out for New Halas too... <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" />

Calthine

02-18-2010, 04:20 PM

<cite>Enica@Blackburrow wrote:</cite><blockquote>Great. Like I needed another reason to start an alt. I was really trying to hold out for New Halas too... <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>auto mentor - Chronomages are your friend!

NrthnStar5

02-18-2010, 04:26 PM

I think this Storyteller feature excites me. From the sounds of it, I think it will help create immersion and awareness when it comes the world and the story. I would love more details on this, and how it is expected to work. It also sounds like it may be a more innovative feature then what was thought initially.Or maybe some inspiration came from War's Tome of Knowledge?

Jeeshman

02-18-2010, 05:09 PM

<cite>Maltheas@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>What do you mean by "other than Qeynos and Freeport as we plan to move away from those" ?What are you going to do to them? They're extremely popular cities, with lots of excellent content. Sure, a lot of the rewards are out-dated now, but that's easily enough fixed.</blockquote>Quoted For Huge Everloving Massive EmphasisWhaddya mean, "other than Queynos and Freeport AS WE PLAN TO MOVE AWAY FROM THOSE?" Why in the wide, wide world of sports would you want to 'move away' from the two biggest starting hubs in the game!??

msgnomer

02-18-2010, 05:31 PM

I'm not certain I completely understand this golden path. Based on the description, I'm hoping it means something like the path that took you through levels 1 to 20 in Age of Conan. Because it was a linked series of quests, there were some longer duration storylines that could be carried through. It was also more linear than a free experience MMO, but that allowed for some focusing in on making a few very elaborate quests. The huge downside in AoC's case was that it was one storyline, and by the time you decided to try out a third character, the novelty had worn off.If the are more than one storyline, as in at least one for each starting area mentioned, then I could see it being an interesting experience. Different than the experience of a young adventurer thrust into a strange world (which I like to rp in my head), but entertaining in a different sort of way. It could really allow for a few stellar quest experiences.I'm quite disappointed that you say you are moving away from Qeynos and Freeport. These are the biggest best cities in the game. Now, if you meant you were moving away from them as starting hubs and plan to revitalize them in some other way...well, then just ask, I have plenty of ideas for that! (though I'm certain your team would too). I could even see the old newbie areas getting spruced up and turned into midlevel suburbs and racial quest centers. Heck, it would even be fun to do it in a global quest sort of way, where the loyal player citizens can do quests to aid in the revitalization, that could take place in stages. Well, anyway....I hope Qeynos and Freeport aren't going to be abadonned. For many players, EQ2 is a race to level cap so they can "begin to play the real game". However, there are many of us for whom this is a world "playground". The journey is the part of interest and we might never even get to raid and equipment acquisition phase. (I've been there a little with EQ raiding and realized I liked it only in very small doses). I think the idea of a cohesive story and attention to the early experience sounds like it could be great. It sounds like the focus is on drawing people into the game and the gameworld, rather than a means to push them to the post-leveling endgame. There will always be paths for those that want to do that. I'm happy to hear of some focus on early game enrichment.

Dareena

02-18-2010, 05:38 PM

<cite>Shaydu@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Maltheas@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>What do you mean by "other than Qeynos and Freeport as we plan to move away from those" ?What are you going to do to them? They're extremely popular cities, with lots of excellent content. Sure, a lot of the rewards are out-dated now, but that's easily enough fixed.</blockquote>Quoted For Huge Everloving Massive EmphasisWhaddya mean, "other than Queynos and Freeport AS WE PLAN TO MOVE AWAY FROM THOSE?" Why in the wide, wide world of sports would you want to 'move away' from the two biggest starting hubs in the game!??</blockquote>Because it's the difference between the new school players and the old school players. RoK convinced me to finally get into EQ2 after brushing off people who had been asking me to join in over the years. Timorous Deep had a beautifully condensed and coherent progression. It was what a starting zone should be. Trying to save the incoherent and spread out mess that is Qeynos and Freeport would require a rebuilding from the group up. To be honest, I'm of the opinion that SOE resources can be better served else where.Also I absolutely loathe the layout of Qeynos and Freeport. So many freaking zone and sub-zones. You couldn't pay me to start and level a character there. Let alone live there for the rest of my adventurering career. I love the Gorowyn layout and my only annoyance disappeared once they added the teleportation pads there.Old school players tend to have a beef with Kelethin and Gorowyn due to their 3-D layouts. New school players tend to have a beef with the starting cities due to their constant zoning and hunting for sub-zones. It's always been this way since I started playing the game when RoK came out. I doubt these attitudes are going to change any time soon. So if SOE is trying to attract new players to this game, it makes complete sense to focus on the newer content zones like the starting cities that they later added and making smooth progressions through the EoF zones.

Rast

02-18-2010, 06:40 PM

I agree with others, I am hoping that Qeynos/Freeport aren't going to be abandoned, they are really quite central to the lore of the game.

Wilin

02-18-2010, 06:44 PM

<cite>Dareena@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shaydu@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Maltheas@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>What do you mean by "other than Qeynos and Freeport as we plan to move away from those" ?What are you going to do to them? They're extremely popular cities, with lots of excellent content. Sure, a lot of the rewards are out-dated now, but that's easily enough fixed.</blockquote>Quoted For Huge Everloving Massive EmphasisWhaddya mean, "other than Queynos and Freeport AS WE PLAN TO MOVE AWAY FROM THOSE?" Why in the wide, wide world of sports would you want to 'move away' from the two biggest starting hubs in the game!??</blockquote>Because it's the difference between the new school players and the old school players. RoK convinced me to finally get into EQ2 after brushing off people who had been asking me to join in over the years. Timorous Deep had a beautifully condensed and coherent progression. It was what a starting zone should be. Trying to save the incoherent and spread out mess that is Qeynos and Freeport would require a rebuilding from the group up. To be honest, I'm of the opinion that SOE resources can be better served else where.Also I absolutely loathe the layout of Qeynos and Freeport. So many freaking zone and sub-zones. You couldn't pay me to start and level a character there. Let alone live there for the rest of my adventurering career. I love the Gorowyn layout and my only annoyance disappeared once they added the teleportation pads there.Old school players tend to have a beef with Kelethin and Gorowyn due to their 3-D layouts. New school players tend to have a beef with the starting cities due to their constant zoning and hunting for sub-zones. It's always been this way since I started playing the game when RoK came out. I doubt these attitudes are going to change any time soon. So if SOE is trying to attract new players to this game, it makes complete sense to focus on the newer content zones like the starting cities that they later added and making smooth progressions through the EoF zones.</blockquote>But, but, but, I want to be rescued in the ocean by a dragon in disguise and then be carted off to an island that I later invade in order to kill said dragon that saved me. Will Halas have that? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />But, seriously, I'd be OK with eliminating FP and Qeynos as "starting cities" and revamping them as quest hubs. They were only designed as multi-zone layouts because they USED to be the center of life in Norrath and the load on each zone created a lagfest. Imagine 250 people in WFP buying pickles. With the inclusion of guild halls, the traffic in starting cities has dipped horribly so there's not much point in keeping that multi-zone architecture. (Particularly if they can instance it for the initial surge of foot traffic that the revamp will bring.) But, the 2 original cities should definitely be brought into the greater whole of the progression through the game.I wonder if the current storyline with Lucan being de-throned is a pre-cursor to the transition of FP away from a starting city.

Liral

02-18-2010, 07:01 PM

<cite>Brenlo wrote:</cite><blockquote>I have been poking around ingame and on the forums and have noticed a lot of confusion regarding the "Golden Path" and what exactly it is. People are looking for specific NPCs or quest lines, and finding themselves stuck. So I wanted to take a moment to clarify a little and talk about what it is currently and where it is headed. The golden path is the first step in a larger revamp of our new player experience. We took a look at the starting areas, other than Qeynos and Freeport as we plan to move away from those, and reworked content so that it had a better flow. We wanted the quests in Darklight, Timorous and Greater Fay, to give you a better progression path. What you will find, is that if you start a new character, or jump into any of the quest hubs in those areas, is a more guided experience through content. We have hundreds of zones and for non veteran players, it can be intimidating trying to figure out where to go next. We wanted to remove that intimidation and give them a better play experience. So phase one is the "Golden Path" of content. A better progression of quests through various hubs starting in the three new player areas above. If you go to any of the zones listed in the update notes and start questing at one of the hubs, you are now on the "Golden Path!"Phase two, which is following in the upcoming months, will introduce the Storyteller window (which is a much better name than Golden Path) which will link quest lines together in an interface, providing the visual representation of the golden path. We want players to understand why they may be collecting 10 oranges or killing 15 Goblin Scouts and show how that evolves into a larger story. The Storyteller System will move players along through content that we feel will give them a fun and exciting experience. While also engaging them in the world, the story and their character.So that's it in a nutshell, or three paragraphs anyway. Thanks all!</blockquote>I very rarely, if ever, really complain about this game but there is one part, highlighted above, of this that is really irking me. Qeynos and Freeport being left behind is a BIG mistake in my book. They are, BY FAR, my two favorite starting zones for this game. None of the others even come remotely close. Darklight an Gfay are ok with DL being better and TD IMHO is not worth starting in at all as the city drives me nuts.Anyways.. Q & F are a HUGE part of EQ history and have far more fun options for people to explore and level up in that surrounds them than the others do. As others have said there are a TON of great quests and places to explore and what not associated with these starting areas and I'd hate to see the devs purposely try and kill them.Being a severe altaholic who starts new toons on a regular basis, been playing this game for a number of years and my highest toon is level 71, I find it disturbing to see that the devs seem to want to keep people away from two areas with a ton of rich history and a geat experience for people to level up through.

VikingGamer

02-18-2010, 07:23 PM

This sounds pretty great. And the storyteller sounds even better. Hopefully you will take it as far as actually creating a journal of a person's travels and adventures. An auto-diary of sorts that could be looked back though. Sometimes, when you are running around with someone you can feel pressured to skip the quest texts. It would be nice to be able to go back over them later.As with others, I also hope that you are not giving up on Freeport and Qeynos entirely. While I readily agree that the newer starting areas are much better, it is still good to have choices, options and replayablity in varied starting zones. One thing they have that the other cities don't is that sense of getting of the boat for the first time and after a little bit of exploring, coming to realize that WOW, I am in a BIG city. They could both use some revamping though. And perhaps some kinda of golden path mechanic that works you though the various quarters of city introducing you to places, people and the various timelines that can be found. And the newbie island wouldn't be hurt by an update either. Being new to the game but having already played all the starter zones just because that is what I do. I really got the impression that when you start in Qeynos or Freeport, you are choosing to be a "city kid" of sorts. Your home is the mean streets so to speak. When you start in one of the newer cities. You are choosing to be varying shades of a mid-town or small-town kid. Both choices are legitimate and give your character flavor and memories. The experiences are different. This is a good thing. Keep the variety.One thing you could do though, would be to give "foreigners" a way get to the other cities and be able to step right into a path that made sense. Just like the person who gets off the boat from newbie island gets taken straight into a time line, (some races are missing btw) by the same token it would be great if there was someone to meet your character from another city at the boat docks and get them on the track to "visit our wonderful city." Tourism is big business after all. And this concept could also be extended to the not so friendly visitor who "visits" the foreign city by way of the sewer tunnels. No reason you couldn't have some contact in freeport send some to the qeyos sewers and have that lead to various "hostile timelines" around that city, introducing and touring it, as it were, from the underside.And I am sure this has already been considered by I will simply point out that while making a nice linear storyline that will draw you into the environment will be a huge improvement, you still need to support those who will wander off the path to explore and do other things. Have tools to help them get back on the path once they choose to but also have ways for people to be able to move back and forth between regions and settle right into that path.Guide, but dont force.

Jeeshman

02-18-2010, 08:12 PM

<cite>Wilin wrote:</cite><blockquote>But, seriously, I'd be OK with eliminating FP and Qeynos as "starting cities" and revamping them as quest hubs. They were only designed as multi-zone layouts because they USED to be the center of life in Norrath and the load on each zone created a lagfest. Imagine 250 people in WFP buying pickles. With the inclusion of guild halls, the traffic in starting cities has dipped horribly so there's not much point in keeping that multi-zone architecture. (Particularly if they can instance it for the initial surge of foot traffic that the revamp will bring.) But, the 2 original cities should definitely be brought into the greater whole of the progression through the game.</blockquote>Eliminating Freeport and Queynos as starting zones and making them quest hubs is an interesting idea....But I'm not enthusiastic about it, nor do I think that's where the development team is headed. First, FP and Queynos have been considered the two "main" or "hub" cities since the game's inception. To remove this from the game is to inherently change the dynamics of Everquest 2. I can't see a decent reason for doing this, especially since there are fans of the zones (and detractors as well, granted).Personally, I don't understand the hate exhibited towards either FP or Queynos. The criticisms usually leveled against starting in Queynos/Freeport made more sense before changes were made around the time of RoK's release. But now, with bells in each city zone and sub-zone that lead to all the other city zones and hub zones, it's incredibly easy to get around. And with housing and brokers and bankers and candlestick makers and crafting and menders in each zone, it's possible to pick one zone, say, South Quenyos, and do all home-related stuff from there without ever having to go to North Queynos or Nettleville or anywhere else. Just head to Antonica to pick up quests and start leveling (or go to Timorous Deep since it's startup quests are better).I can understand, however, starting in a particular zone and not wanting to have an alt live in a different starter city, simply because it's difficult to get acclimated to a different one. I've got 3 toons living in SQ and one in TD, and I can never find the $#%! broker in TD because I'm so used to SQ. I'm sure if I'd started the first toon in TD and had 2 other toons there, I'd feel the opposite!

Kitsune

02-19-2010, 01:28 AM

Storyteller sounds fascinating.But I am with the others on not wanting FP and Qeynos abandoned. I really don't like all the the other starter zones because they are so out of the way and a nightmare to get around. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /> Takes forever to get anywhere else from there. Maps are a real problem to undesrtand because of multi levels for Kelethin and Gorowyn. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" />I moved out of Neriak to FP as soon as I could because the colors and constant noise gave me headaches - and as for ease of getting around... none. It may have changed since Neriak was introduced, but I am not inclined to go look, to be honest. And I like the Arasai!Same goes with GF. In Kelethin I kept falling off the tree city and getting lost. Harvesting was so confusing I abandoned it totally till I moved to Qeynos. Getting anywhere else was a marathon of BB etc, and next to impossible for low levels. Hasn't changed that much when I went there a couple months ago to harvest for the City Festival.Timorous Deep has changed, but is still a nightmare interpreting the maps and getting from level to level, and even finding the housing! Houses are nioce but outweighed by the annoyances of getting anywere. I visited it recently for the City Festivals.While on it, love the new zone, Sundered Frontier, but hate the Paineel maps! We are in a city and all we have looks like the bed of a dried up lake. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" />Sorry, lots of positive feelings about the game, but not the starter zones. I know you need diversity of starter cities and zones, but inaccessibility doesn't add to the game for me at all.Do some more with FP and Qeynos too. Maybe an Instant transport person for Fae and Arasai and others to Kelethin and Neriak and Gorowyn only for up to L 10 or so so they can do the race specific stuff but live elsewhere maybe? Especially now Fae and Arasai can start in FP ansd Qeynos.

Vonotar

02-19-2010, 02:34 AM

I'm going to be unpopular here... but removing Qeynos and Freeport STARTER ZONES (and by that I purely mean the two outposts) would make a lot of sense as these player experiences are not just poor but dire in comparison with the newer starter zones.Although I would request that the zone (it is just one zone really) be reused for new questlines in some fashion, perhaps even with a storyline referencing the fact that the isle was used as a refuge for those rescued from the sea (the original original storyline).I would then suggest that the racial quests in Freeport and Qeynos proper be made to scale to level (and available to people of both factions), these are simple quests with minor rewards (racial house item etc) so it would be nice to retain them for when new players eventually discover the cities.I seriously doubt that Brenlo is suggesting that Freeport and Qeynos themselves be "removed", or that zones like the Caves, Sunken City etc, are removed (least I hope not!).Brenlo: If you intend to remove or massively revamp quests in zone, it might be worth giving a heads up in advance for those of us who would want to do a last run of the old quests before seeing them go.

Vonotar

02-19-2010, 02:44 AM

<cite>Wilin wrote:</cite><blockquote>But, seriously, I'd be OK with eliminating FP and Qeynos as "starting cities" and revamping them as quest hubs. They were only designed as multi-zone layouts because they USED to be the center of life in Norrath and the load on each zone created a lagfest. Imagine 250 people in WFP buying pickles. With the inclusion of guild halls, the traffic in starting cities has dipped horribly so there's not much point in keeping that multi-zone architecture. (Particularly if they can instance it for the initial surge of foot traffic that the revamp will bring.) But, the 2 original cities should definitely be brought into the greater whole of the progression through the game.</blockquote>It has been stated before, that the four zones that make up the center of Qeynos (or the center of Freeport) can actually be "stitched together" to create a single zone, it would be good to see that happen.What would happen to the suburb areas (willow wood etc) I'm not sure<cite>Kitsune wrote:</cite><blockquote>Do some more with FP and Qeynos too. Maybe an Instant transport person for Fae and Arasai and others to Kelethin and Neriak and Gorowyn only for up to L 10 or so so they can do the race specific stuff but live elsewhere maybe? Especially now Fae and Arasai can start in FP ansd Qeynos.</blockquote>How about just having some form of travel between cities of the same alignment.Now I know we pinch too many things from WoW already... but they *do* have travel between cities of the same alignment.Obviously boats won't work for Kelethin and Neriak, so a similar flying machine travel (an extension of that used for travelling from SS to Moors?) would be fantastic

Gladiolus

02-19-2010, 02:53 AM

The Isle of Refuge is still the nicest place to start. I've made characters in Kelethin, Neriak and Gorowyn but made a lot more in Qeynos and Freeport.As for the Golden Path, if everyone's being directed to the same place, their second characters will follow the same route as the first, and so will the third, and then it'll just be too boring. If it's really necessary to herd people along, why aren't there several paths? One from Antonica to the Steppes, Zek, Everfrost, etc., another from the Commonlands to Nektulos, Enchanted Lands, Lavastorm, etc., and so on. Norrath is huge, so why must this New Experience ignore most of it?

ShinGoku

02-19-2010, 06:58 AM

I can't speak for others but I know that personally, since I started playing the game back in the day when you had to quest to become your archtype that the two outposts are still my fave places to start!I Can't stand the layouts of Neriak / Kelethin, Goro is a little better but not much...I personally would mourn the loss of the outposts. Perhaps if the outposts were polished up and gave quests up to and including lvl 10 that would be better? The progression would then follow Outpost>sub district>Antonica>steppes /BB etc.

Leko

02-19-2010, 08:52 AM

Can we get a zone listing by Level range for the Path? Is there any reason for a mid level 70 to not run the last portion of the path?

norwendor

02-19-2010, 11:15 AM

and as a little side note on this ideal. It better come with a free relocation of guildhalls for all involved that have them from the orginal starting cities to the new ones ...

Whilhelmina

02-19-2010, 11:38 AM

Personnaly I start all my chars in Freeport and Qeynos except some very few that started in Neriak. I would be very disapointed if those zones were left behind.

Bridgeplay

02-19-2010, 11:39 AM

EQ1's revamp of Freeport was a disaster and for a while made the game unplayable for several classes, particularly Paladins who had to travel there for several important quests.EQ2 already has numerous examples of breaking older quests when revamping zones. You can find many of them discussed on these forums.Please leave older zones alone. SOE has a very poor record with zone revamps. I do not understand why dev time was devoted to disturbing older zones when much needed content (like the new starting area that was supposed to be included in Sentinel's Fate) was left undone.Seriously, if you want to improve the new customer experience, get rid of the "streaming client" (yes, I've tried it) and complete the content that was supposed to be in Sentinel's Fate.

Gamer1965

02-19-2010, 12:11 PM

<cite>Bridgeplay wrote:</cite><blockquote>Seriously, if you want to improve the new customer experience, get rid of the "streaming client" (yes, I've tried it) and complete the content that was supposed to be in Sentinel's Fate.</blockquote>hmmm.. Make all new players wait to download and patch 10+ hours or more (if they have subpar internet connectivity) before they can even see what the character screen looks like vs. 10-20min download and being able to 'create' that 'new' toon and then BEGIN to adventure. I don't know about you, but I would think that the streaming client does 'improve the new player experience', so getting rid of it would definitely be counter-productive.

TigTiger

02-19-2010, 12:30 PM

I have to say this is a very welcome direction to me for SOE to be takeing. I am primarily a quester and solo/group player and I am one of those weirdos who actualy LIKES to read the quest text when i'm doing a quest....<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> Go figure . I have nothing against raiding and I hope with the release of SF the ability to be able to be part of a raid without haveing to depend on large groups of people to get you ready to even be IN the raid is going to be mitigated a bit. From what i've seen so far of content and equipment this seems to be quite possible.I am finding the solo content quite enjoyable in the SF area as well as the group content. The linking of quests and storylines, while not always completely clear, is nevertheless much more organized than in previous expansions and I am happy to see this being extended to the rest of the game. Anything that makes the game more enjoyable for the majority of players while haveing little or no negative impact on players that do not choose to participate in that content is to me only a win/win for SOE.The sad truth of the game today is that weather you are a hardcore raider or a solo/group player; the majority of people, from what I hear in chat and from people I know, are basicly useing whatever tricks or tips they can to get any alts they play from 1-80/90 as soon as possible. It took me about 4 months to get my character to level 80, thru vast enjoyment of the game itself and it's quests, and grouping. Listening to people post in the forums and talk in chat about how fast they got their latest alt to 80, sometimes in days, truely saddens me as I feel they have missed out on at least half of the content of the game. There are right now several different progression paths that can be taken from 1-80/90 that lead thru very different areas. I understand there are veteran players who have probably played thru all of these paths before so to me anything that "reintroduces" older players to an urge to try lower level content again sounds like a good idea to me.And remember that SOE still wants to keep getting new players, I can tell you from my experience as a new player before some of the new starting areas were in the game it WAS a bit intimidateing to know what to do. So anything that makes the play experience more valuable to a new player who perhaps dosent have a nice huge guild with at least 15-20 people online for most of the day is a good thing.

Maroger

02-19-2010, 01:23 PM

<cite>ShinGoku wrote:</cite><blockquote>I can't speak for others but I know that personally, since I started playing the game back in the day when you had to quest to become your archtype that the two outposts are still my fave places to start! I Can't stand the layouts of Neriak / Kelethin, Goro is a little better but not much... I personally would mourn the loss of the outposts. Perhaps if the outposts were polished up and gave quests up to and including lvl 10 that would be better? The progression would then follow Outpost>sub district>Antonica>steppes /BB etc.</blockquote>I have to admit I agree with you. BUT the quest rewards are better in TD - but I hate the zone and as soon as I drag through the quests with my new inquisitor I am moving to Freeport.By the way I didn't see any new quests - just the same dull quests as before with the same rewards. It is the rewards that make me do it --- otherwise TD stinks. It took me 6 years from Launch to now to get 2 to level 80 - but I quest and craft have tons of level 80 crafter so I just don't adventure all the time. Like many I hate to see the rush to 80. I like a leisurely tour through the game, the zones and the quests. Although I find myself less interested in doing the collections as I did on my current high levels.I think the collections have gotten much harder to do in the sense that there are too many pieces that are too hard to find and sell for too much on the broker. They need to increae the drops on ALL items in the lower level collection quests.

CorpseGoddess

02-19-2010, 02:22 PM

<cite>Wilin wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dareena@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite>But, but, but, I want to be rescued in the ocean by a dragon in disguise and then be carted off to an island that I later invade in order to kill said dragon that saved me. Will Halas have that? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />But, seriously, I'd be OK with eliminating FP and Qeynos as "starting cities" and revamping them as quest hubs. They were only designed as multi-zone layouts because they USED to be the center of life in Norrath and the load on each zone created a lagfest. Imagine 250 people in WFP buying pickles. With the inclusion of guild halls, the traffic in starting cities has dipped horribly so there's not much point in keeping that multi-zone architecture. (Particularly if they can instance it for the initial surge of foot traffic that the revamp will bring.) But, the 2 original cities should definitely be brought into the greater whole of the progression through the game.I wonder if the current storyline with Lucan being de-throned is a pre-cursor to the transition of FP away from a starting city.</blockquote>This is quite possibly the best thing ever typed into these forums. With your permission, I may have to make this into a sig.

CorpseGoddess

02-19-2010, 02:38 PM

<cite>TigTiger wrote:</cite><blockquote>I have to say this is a very welcome direction to me for SOE to be takeing. I am primarily a quester and solo/group player and I am one of those weirdos who actualy LIKES to read the quest text when i'm doing a quest....<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> Go figure . I have nothing against raiding and I hope with the release of SF the ability to be able to be part of a raid without haveing to depend on large groups of people to get you ready to even be IN the raid is going to be mitigated a bit. From what i've seen so far of content and equipment this seems to be quite possible.I am finding the solo content quite enjoyable in the SF area as well as the group content. The linking of quests and storylines, while not always completely clear, is nevertheless much more organized than in previous expansions and I am happy to see this being extended to the rest of the game. Anything that makes the game more enjoyable for the majority of players while haveing little or no negative impact on players that do not choose to participate in that content is to me only a win/win for SOE.The sad truth of the game today is that weather you are a hardcore raider or a solo/group player; the majority of people, from what I hear in chat and from people I know, are basicly useing whatever tricks or tips they can to get any alts they play from 1-80/90 as soon as possible. It took me about 4 months to get my character to level 80, thru vast enjoyment of the game itself and it's quests, and grouping. Listening to people post in the forums and talk in chat about how fast they got their latest alt to 80, sometimes in days, truely saddens me as I feel they have missed out on at least half of the content of the game. There are right now several different progression paths that can be taken from 1-80/90 that lead thru very different areas. I understand there are veteran players who have probably played thru all of these paths before so to me anything that "reintroduces" older players to an urge to try lower level content again sounds like a good idea to me.And remember that SOE still wants to keep getting new players, I can tell you from my experience as a new player before some of the new starting areas were in the game it WAS a bit intimidateing to know what to do. So anything that makes the play experience more valuable to a new player who perhaps dosent have a nice huge guild with at least 15-20 people online for most of the day is a good thing.</blockquote>I understand what you're saying about leveling...I'm the same way. I *just* dinged 81 bruiser and 84 carpenter yesterday, and already I feel like a slacker compared to some people I know that powered up to 90 before I even got home from work on Tuesday.I enjoy the Freeport and Qeynos starting zones for their ambiance and their storyline, so I will start new toons and run them through that. As soon as the zone's finished, however, I run them through TD for the gear and then DLW for the jewelry (and the attendant storylines for both are very good, but I guess I'm just nostalgic for the starter island).

Guleipho

02-19-2010, 02:45 PM

Bridgeplay

02-19-2010, 04:05 PM

The problem with Freeport and Qeynos is that with the "Streaming Client," it's a crummy gameplaying experience for people starting there. Too many zonelines to cross, and a delay each time you cross one. (Yes, I've tried it.)The "Streaming Client" works much better for newbie starting areas that are contained in one zone.Once you start crossing zonelines, the "Streaming Client" becomes a much worse option than just downloading the full game.

Midsong

02-20-2010, 05:26 AM

I hope this storyteller system includes a look at the story of EQ2 so far. Cinematics (cut-scenes? What do we call these game engine rendered videos?) would be nice. It's always bothered me that MMOs have basically no route to get a handle on what is going on besides going to the web (not very engaging) or somehow solo or going raiding through all the old content (access quests, special item grinding, and all the other goodies). It's rather new player unfriendly.

Animul

02-20-2010, 06:50 AM

<cite>Brenlo wrote:</cite><blockquote>I have been poking around ingame and on the forums and have noticed a lot of confusion regarding the "Golden Path" and what exactly it is. People are looking for specific NPCs or quest lines, and finding themselves stuck. So I wanted to take a moment to clarify a little and talk about what it is currently and where it is headed. The golden path is the first step in a larger revamp of our new player experience. We took a look at the starting areas, other than Qeynos and Freeport as we plan to move away from those, and reworked content so that it had a better flow. We wanted the quests in Darklight, Timorous and Greater Fay, to give you a better progression path. What you will find, is that if you start a new character, or jump into any of the quest hubs in those areas, is a more guided experience through content. We have hundreds of zones and for non veteran players, it can be intimidating trying to figure out where to go next. We wanted to remove that intimidation and give them a better play experience. So phase one is the "Golden Path" of content. A better progression of quests through various hubs starting in the three new player areas above. If you go to any of the zones listed in the update notes and start questing at one of the hubs, you are now on the "Golden Path!"Phase two, which is following in the upcoming months, will introduce the Storyteller window (which is a much better name than Golden Path) which will link quest lines together in an interface, providing the visual representation of the golden path. We want players to understand why they may be collecting 10 oranges or killing 15 Goblin Scouts and show how that evolves into a larger story. The Storyteller System will move players along through content that we feel will give them a fun and exciting experience. While also engaging them in the world, the story and their character.So that's it in a nutshell, or three paragraphs anyway. Thanks all!</blockquote>I made a Golden Path in the snow last week that was just about as exciting as your proposed changes.Sounds like more unneeded/unwanted changes that serve no purpose other than to say we don't have a clue how to make a coherent storyline that works on its own so we will hold your hand and guide you through the mess we have made of the New Player Experience.There was nothing wrong with the new player experience in the Qeynos and Freeport quest hubs UNTIL you guys started mucking around with it in the first place, then you add new areas and thats great, except you failed to go back and update the other starter areas to the same level of rewards just so you could shove your new content in peoples faces. To be quite frank, dam near every change I have seen the current team make has flushed this game further down the sewer pipe. I am not saying you guys are incompetent or anything like that but you are most assuredly incapable of the level of greatness that came before you.After the hack job the current team has done with this game about the only redeeming quality it has left is the great community where even the vets are part of the "New Player Experience". We don't need or hands held nor do we need you trying to put together a new and improved storyline when its quite obvious that you don't fully understand the original one.EOF was the last expansion that had any quality in it in my opinion and I have hung in there in the hopes that there would be another that matched at least close to the level of fun that expansion brought. All I have seen since then has been lacklustre in comparison, not to mention all the changes that have been made to the game since then that leave me wondering if you guys have any clue what your doing.

Crickett

02-20-2010, 12:09 PM

I am now oficially impressed!<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" />

Arkenor

02-21-2010, 02:03 AM

I can't believe they'ed actually remove Qeynos and Freeport. I would guess it's something more like leaving them to obscelesence, and perhaps removing their status as starting cities. Really, we're just guessing at this point. "moving away from" could mean quite a spectrum of things, but the fact that they were left out of the starting area improvements does suggest that they're not considered worth fixing, which makes me sad.Qeynos and Freeport have been neglected for years. For instance, the boss loot in the down below still has no stats at all on it, and never has. I remember reporting that in the week after launch. Nevertheless, I still find that the original zones have far more depth to them than many of the newer ones. Places like Crushbone and Kaladim are very nice, but they are snacks compared with the questing feasts that are Stormhold or Nektropos, or even the Crypt of Betrayal.There's nothing wrong with the original cities that couldn't be fixed by going through their sewers and surrounding areas and bringing the gear up to match the newer zones, and doing a little polishing. Maybe bring back all the quests that have been removed from them too.If they really do away with Qeynos and Freeport , I think that would be something of an NGE experience for a lot of us, especially if it was for so poor a reason as the newfangled streaming technology not working well with them.If they're not streaming client friendly, simply don't let people with the streaming client start there unless they've already downloaded the right zones. (Though I would have thought the average new player would have downloaded most of Qeynos by the time they'ed finished the Isle of Refuge for the first time.) Please don't go throwing away places that we care about.

Nayawk

02-21-2010, 03:41 AM

I start alot of alts.. some never make it to far, but I start alot. They all more or less start on either isle. Yes I gear and exp [Removed for Content] my alts rather than have to go through the new starter zones.DLwoods is ok. not great but ok.. this is the one of the newer zones I occasionally but not often use.TD is horrible. The art/design just isn't my thing and it is just do much of a hand hold.GF.. I did it once when it came out and you couldn't pay me to do it again.Those are all just personal opinions and in no way should it be implied that people who like those zones are lacking anything. But I will also be very dissapointed if Freeport/Qeynos are even more marginalised. I honestly think the FP/Q dynamic is a strength this game should play up to not dismiss.

Leko

02-21-2010, 09:57 AM

Will there be a Golden Path starter in Halas?Is the path active now and if so what NPCs start the path?Can you join the path at any level?

PsiberDaemon

02-21-2010, 12:02 PM

Well, hopefully you won't completely abandon Qeynos and Freeport... maybe a revamp?Personally, I want the option for the next time Nathan Ironforge asks 'Have you seen a gnoll before?' I want to be able to whip out a gnoll paw and smack him over the head saying 'Yes! Yes I have!' (I swear, my first toon in the game, this little pest followed me EVERYWHERE and kept asking that question... I just think it'd be nice to answer him. LOL)

Drodin

02-21-2010, 03:07 PM

If story and immersion are what you are after, then bring back the boat ride to Qeynos and Freeport. That story starting on the island and ending back there with all the NPCs dead, then killing darathar was the best 'storyline' I've played through in this game. It really had a complete experience.I understand that it just won't be the same with that story ending just past halfway through leveling and so much other content around but the thought of the isle of refuge going away makes me very disappointed.However, if you guys want to revamp qeynos and all the hubs into a single zone (same for freeport) that would be a very welcome update.This whole thing has be pretty excited overall though, cant wait to hear more.

Ikke

02-21-2010, 05:01 PM

Brenlo,You got me excited with your golden path idea but HORRIFIED with your remarks about Freeport and Qeynos! These cities were and should be the 2 centres of the game! Please dont destroy that! Improve the starter island, get the brilliant boatride back, add back all the old quests in the cities and add more, join city zones into bigger zones, open up the castles etc! IMPROVE these cities but PLEASE do not leave these beautiful cities by the wayside because of the fact that it would be a lot of work to bring them up to the standards of the newer starter cities.Thanks for reading this rant but you really scare me with your ofhand remark!<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" />Kind regards,Ikke.

Avianna

02-21-2010, 05:44 PM

Sounds interesting to me, I am delighted to hear of this change because I remember when I was starting out I got up to lvl 40 or so and my quest journal was full and I had no idea where to go or how it related to what I had been doing so it will be interesting to see how this unfolds.My 2c worth of advice for this change:1.) While in storytelling mode have lots of cut-scenes & spoken storytelling with the ability to skip it if desired.2.) Have the ability to turn it off/on if you wish.3.) Do not "move away from" Qeynos & Freeport. They are great citys with a lot of good content. A little revamp work might be in order but in general they are great citys.Thanks,-Avi

Lera

02-21-2010, 09:25 PM

<cite>Avianna@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sounds interesting to me, I am delighted to hear of this change because I remember when I was starting out I got up to lvl 40 or so and my quest journal was full and I had no idea where to go or how it related to what I had been doing so it will be interesting to see how this unfolds.My 2c worth of advice for this change:1.) While in storytelling mode have lots of cut-scenes & spoken storytelling with the ability to skip it if desired.2.) Have the ability to turn it off/on if you wish.</blockquote>Pleeeeease don't add more cutscenes. A few are okay, but I'd much rather see quest dialogue. Make my character part of the story - I'm not paying every month to watch a movie. I loved the Will of the Tyrant quests - the Antonia storyline was particularly good, especially the interrogation.<cite>Avianna@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>3.) Do not "move away from" Qeynos & Freeport. They are great citys with a lot of good content. A little revamp work might be in order but in general they are great citys.</blockquote>Agreed - I still think of the good and evil sides as "Qeynos" and "Freeport", with the other cities as kind of extras out there. I loved the old citizenship and class progression quests, and would love to see those come back, along with all the other "boring" quests that got removed a while back - they really helped bring life to the villages with all those NPCs that needed help (plus they help with quest count <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" />).<cite>Animul</cite><cite> wrote:</cite><blockquote>EOF was the last expansion that had any quality in it in my opinion and I have hung in there in the hopes that there would be another that matched at least close to the level of fun that expansion brought. All I have seen since then has been lacklustre in comparison, not to mention all the changes that have been made to the game since then that leave me wondering if you guys have any clue what your doing.</blockquote>Can I have your stuff?You haven't liked the game for a couple years now, you think every change they've made is bad, and yet you're still paying SOE your money every month?And, really, what's with the "this sucks" post? Explain WHY it sucks and how they can fix it, and maybe they'll listen.

ke'la

02-22-2010, 05:21 AM

<cite>Bridgeplay wrote:</cite><blockquote>EQ1's revamp of Freeport was a disaster and for a while made the game unplayable for several classes, particularly Paladins who had to travel there for several important quests.EQ2 already has numerous examples of breaking older quests when revamping zones. You can find many of them discussed on these forums.Please leave older zones alone. SOE has a very poor record with zone revamps. I do not understand why dev time was devoted to disturbing older zones when much needed content (like the new starting area that was supposed to be included in Sentinel's Fate) was left undone.Seriously, if you want to improve the new customer experience, get rid of the "streaming client" (yes, I've tried it) and complete the content that was supposed to be in Sentinel's Fate.</blockquote>What incomplete content are you talking about?

Animul

02-22-2010, 08:22 AM

<cite>Lera@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>=</cite>Can I have your stuff?You haven't liked the game for a couple years now, you think every change they've made is bad, and yet you're still paying SOE your money every month?And, really, what's with the "this sucks" post? Explain WHY it sucks and how they can fix it, and maybe they'll listen.</blockquote>Sure thing your share is in the mail.Laters<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" />

Lortet

02-22-2010, 08:34 AM

I can understand how some players may want a "path" - good for them. Please understand that some players DO NOT want a path, and FP and Q allow that - I have started characters in each of the current starter areas and by choice would not start anywhere else but FP or Q now. Might be ok if you plan on taking one character along the progression to lvl 90, but doing multiples - ughhh - exactly the same quests, same order each time.

MurFalad

02-22-2010, 11:34 AM

The golden path thing sounds great and since its optional I don't see any drawbacks from it at all.The storybook though sounds even better, getting new players to care about the world, instead of just going through it collecting virtual loot I think is the best way to get new players to stay with EQ2 for the longterm.But as others have said Qeynos and Freeport seem to be in Limbo with these plans, personally I've only experienced Qeynos and Kelethin as starter zones (due to only playing Frogloks <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" />), and of the two I much prefered Qeynos since it had amazing scenes (the city is beautifully designed) and full of characters (especially Castleview hamlet). Kelethin in comparison was a little too "twee" with all the children etc, and lacked the characters Castleview hamlet had to interact with.It would be a dream to see these zones glued together so that we had no more zoning, I'm not sure what the future to them should be whether as starter zones or questing zones, but I'm sure they should be central to EQ2 throughout the levels. And I would miss places like Castleview Hamlet, Castle ruins, and Oakmist forest, very well designed areas I think to start off in.I would like to see more racial based starter quests, using zones already in the game, for Frogloks Kugup could be the place you visit later on as a Froglok with Tunaria somewhere High elves visit etc, maybe even have these areas provide levelling content that you can do at any level as some sort of rite of passage for your race.

Liyle

02-22-2010, 01:46 PM

I love the idea of moving away from FP and Qeynos. The game has moved so far away from the original duality of good vs evil and matured into a multi-faceted world. I can't see eliminating them but I sure can see blending them in to the rest of the world. IMHO the decision as to where to start a character should be based on building their persona, not which zone is easiest to navigate or which one gives the best loot. I would like to see much more "homeland" based abilities and gear that would fit into the storyline of the characters we create. Anything that gets away from pressure to build your toon based on "optimal" specs posted in forum stickies would be welcome.

Graymane-Dunedain

02-23-2010, 09:08 AM

Thanks for the heads up that you are planning to abandon the starting zones we pre Sentinal's Fate newbies just spent the last three months getting used to.Really, really nice to discover I invested 3 months in dead end, soon to be abandoned starter zones.So new players who choose the human race are automatically sent to a starter zone that the game designers are "moving away from"?Does this mean that in order to experience the new and improved version of the starter "experience" one has to choose a race that will place them in one of the newer starter zones that the devs actually intend to invest development time into?Where is the up front warning to new players choosing to create human characters that they will be relegated to an obsolete, no longer going to be improved starter zone and will be precluded from participating in the Golden Path.As you can probably guess, I am more than a little perturbed to discover only now that the zone I started in and call home is being "moved away from" by the development team.Perhaps you are not truly intending to abandon Qeynos and Freeport and just made a poor choice of words in conveying your intent.One can only hope. p.s. feeling more than a little like a victim of fraud here

Dareena

02-23-2010, 10:52 AM

<cite>Graymane-Dunedain wrote:</cite><blockquote>As you can probably guess, I am more than a little perturbed to discover only now that the zone I started in and call home is being "moved away from" by the development team.</blockquote>Well I feel for you. The whole EQ2 system isn't very good about warning people that Freeport and Qeynos are just black holes of worthlessness. (Yes, I know that old school EQ2 players would argue with me in terms of nostalgia and lore.)Though I do know that evil human characters can start in Timorous Deep. With that in mind, I guess that I also expected that you could make a human in Kelethin. I don't know about Kelethin because I've never tried that combination.If people don't come to the message boards or don't talk to others who play the game, then newer players will get stuck having a really crummy starting experience. To me, that's what Brenlo is agreeing with. I mean, you couldn't pay me to actually level a character up to 20th through Freeport or Qeynos. So unless SOE does a complete revamp of those cities (in terms of actual game play and joining them into a mass zone for the purposes of their new streaming client), those starter cities should just be cast aside as dead husks. From what I was able to read from the situation, that's the direction that SOE is moving in.

Shadus

02-23-2010, 11:26 AM

You may have gotten used to fp and q, but honestly, the zones need a full revamp at the least. The only advantagous thing is the tier3 guildhalls. I've been playing since launch and the original newbie cities suck compared to NKG. Perhaps the only good thing about them is they are less convoluted than the new city zones... the newbie areas aren't even a comparison though, the old world newbie areas suck. Badly.They should gut them entirely, slap the entire city and surrounding zones into a single zone.

Yavie

02-23-2010, 12:02 PM

I don't know about other people, but I like the decent gear for lowbie toons and the smooth path the questline in TD has. My toons are usually based in Qeynos, which means they are put on the starter island (oh the memories!) where I quickly remove them, head into QH, use that carpet to SS, down to BBM and fly to TD. I would think about starting in Kelethin but it's WAY too hard to get a lvl 1 from the Nursery to the city to use the carpet. Besides, other than the poor gear, the Nursery also has a decent questline. As long as I can continue to LIVE in Qeynos, the idea of wasting devs time on revamping all the newbie zones there when they should be working on new content tells me that this is, in the long run, something that is needed. However, I think the racial quests in the starting cities, ie: Willow Wood, Temple St. etc. should remain and the various lowbie zones OTHER than the starting islands should remain as they are fun zones to play in especially with auto mentoring.

Goolug

02-23-2010, 12:11 PM

Can anyone help me to locate one of these "golden path" hubs? I am not new to the game, and have a high level toon, but i recently convinced my wife to play, and she has made it all the way thru the TD line (prior to expansion) and last night she took the grif to BB, and sure there are tons of quests for her to do there, but I was trying to help her find one of these hubs and i had zero luck! One of the things she complained about to me is she got kinda of lost along the way and it seems to me like she has yet to learn some fundamentals that are very important to grouping and succeeding in this game. anyways, please let me know if you have any insight as to where the hubs are located, thanks!!!!!

Valkyriur

02-23-2010, 12:18 PM

Those are the hubs: TD, Gfay, Butcherblock. I believe they are the areas where you can pick up a quest story line, if you went thru TD, she followed the line from the TD hub to the BB hub, and is now working thru that.

Calthine

02-23-2010, 12:57 PM

<cite>Goolug wrote:</cite><blockquote>Can anyone help me to locate one of these "golden path" hubs?</blockquote>They're just normal quest hubs; you won't see a golden aura and as far as gameplay goes there's nothing extraordinary about them. The progression is just especially smooth in these zones.<a href="http://eq2.zam.com/wiki/The_Golden_Path" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://eq2.zam.com/wiki/The_Golden_Path</a>

Arbreth

02-23-2010, 02:23 PM

I do hope that what he meant was a moving away from the Islands and not the cities themselves. I have long stated that the Islands needed a complete overhaul to make them more interesting and relevant. Qeynos and Freeport do not actually have a newbie timeline within them, this is something that needs to be corrected more than just abandoning them.

Calthine

02-23-2010, 02:33 PM

<cite>Arbreth wrote:</cite><blockquote>I do hope that what he meant was a moving away from the Islands and not the cities themselves. I have long stated that the Islands needed a complete overhaul to make them more interesting and relevant. Qeynos and Freeport do not actually have a newbie timeline within them, this is something that needs to be corrected more than just abandoning them. </blockquote>I suspect that "moving away" from the starter isle just means they're not going to get any attention and people willl be encouraged to start characters in the more modern starting cities.Qeynos and Freeport *do* have newbie timelines; they're in the suburbs (villages) rather than the cities themselves.<a href="http://eq2.zam.com/wiki/Qeynos_Villages_(EQ2_Quest_Series)" target="_blank">Qeynos Villages Quest Series</a><a href="http://eq2.zam.com/wiki/Freeport_Villages_(EQ2_Quest_Series)" target="_blank">Freeport Villages Quest Series</a>

wrisky

02-24-2010, 05:32 PM

An interesting new layer of content could be to map out distinct "golden paths" from character creation to an arbitrary higher level hmmm... say 80). These seprerate paths could be keyed to combinations of race/class/gender to provide variety and their rewards could be some sort of minor buff/ward/resistance/item/skill/wield_ability etc etc. Look at it as being able to collect unique passport stamps in the world of Norrath.

Suta

02-24-2010, 08:02 PM

The idea sounds excellent, but NOT at the expense of abandoning Qeynos and Freeport. These two cities are some of the most beautiful, well-layed out, realistic looking cities I've ever seen in an MMO. Gorrowyn, Neriak and Kelethin are drab, poorly designed, annoying to traverse and just down right butt ugly.Please do NOT abandon Qeynos and Freeport.

Powers

02-24-2010, 09:08 PM

<cite>Arbreth wrote:</cite><blockquote>Qeynos and Freeport do not actually have a newbie timeline within them, this is something that needs to be corrected more than just abandoning them. </blockquote>They most certainly do. The timeline starts with the individual racial advisers, progresses through the starting zone's adjacent adventure zone (e.g., to the Peat Bog for Nettleville residents), then goes to (in Qeynos at least) The Caves, after which the Qeynos newbie should be over level 10 and is sent out to Antonica for the solo quest series there, which leads into Thundering Steppes.It's perfectly fine and the racial questlines provide some much-needed racial lore to new players, and it means creating characters of different races allows you to do a different series of quests. And then it takes you on a path very similar to those found in the other cities.Powers &8^]

Suta

02-25-2010, 06:31 AM

<cite>Powers wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Arbreth wrote:</cite><blockquote>Qeynos and Freeport do not actually have a newbie timeline within them, this is something that needs to be corrected more than just abandoning them. </blockquote>They most certainly do. The timeline starts with the individual racial advisers, progresses through the starting zone's adjacent adventure zone (e.g., to the Peat Bog for Nettleville residents), then goes to (in Qeynos at least) The Caves, after which the Qeynos newbie should be over level 10 and is sent out to Antonica for the solo quest series there, which leads into Thundering Steppes.It's perfectly fine and the racial questlines provide some much-needed racial lore to new players, and it means creating characters of different races allows you to do a different series of quests. And then it takes you on a path very similar to those found in the other cities.Powers &8^]</blockquote>Well said!

Captain Sensible

02-25-2010, 01:21 PM

I for one am happy to see the plan for the 'story teller' instead of going to NPC 3 to collect 7 roots and a gator hide for no real reason, as trival as it may seem having a reason to do something is important for some folks. I like the fact that it blends an element of role play (nothing against role players just not one meself) into the game when your leveling your toon. I'm getting the feeling we will be seeing a sense of 'reason to quest' instead of questing being a means (solely) to the end game.Wrath Of A Tyrant, has shown us that something is in the works for both Freeport and Qeynos, while I'm sure that (for nothing else) game content that F and Q will be around in some form, I'm glad that we can see some evolution from these two powerful cities. After 5 years of play and seeing the exact same thing every single day, creates for me a want to avoid these same old tired areas. The very fact that EQ2 is in a state of evolution is a great thing for the players that have been around for a good deal of time. I'm one of those that believe if you've put in at least a year you've done your time and paid your dues, so you can come aboard with us old timers from beta and opening day <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.I've been on the brink of burn out many a time in 5 years of play, what has been keeping me in game as of late are the revamps and expansions. The tough thing being both a completionist as well as a hardcore alt-a-holic is that I will burn a zone out (25 alts and 3 accounts I tend to play areas over and over). So bravo to the devs for keeping an eye on the older zones and giving them a GOOD reason to be revisited. A bigger bravo for the story teller to make going back all worth it. When the Achievement system started (remember completionist) I went oh great, more crap I have to do. I'm still going oh great more crap to do, but now it will at least have a link to the world and maybe provide a bit more entertainment to those 5,000 or so fed ex quests we all just love to do.

Guleipho

02-25-2010, 03:14 PM

Since I worked my way through Gorowyn, I can comment a bit on the Golden Path.First off, it can be a bit confusing on finding the people as some pop up after a certain level. But I can tell you there is one on Chtkori Island, 2 in Mok Rent, and one in Gorowyn itself that I found. There is some buggyness to the feathers and books showing up when you finish a task which I /bugged.As for BBM ... holy cow.Many of the NPCs are now situated either on the docks (as when you fly from Gorowyn you land there instead of that ramp) and more NPCs when you go up the stone ramp towards the gryphon tower. They removed the quest to use the tower though, which can save time I think.I am so intrigued about finding more on this pirate booty quest (I have to be level 32 to start it >< ). Taking a break now and going through Neriak to see what Path I can find there.I know you are still doing work on it, but looking good so far!

Runelaron

02-26-2010, 10:11 PM

Sounds like....DIABLO II

Guleipho

02-27-2010, 12:33 PM

Well, I found no new paths in the Neriak area, though I did notice as a citizen of Gorowyn, I could not take ANY of the quests in Neriak (besides teleporter, citizenship change and writs) so I don't know what is up with that.As for GFay ... new mount station areas, more quests (so look around!) ... some are buggy so can't really see everything yet.Not bad!

Terron

03-01-2010, 12:05 PM

The OP made "Golden Path" sound as attractive as eating golden snow."a better progression path" - I don't want one path. I want many different paths so that I can play many alts and get a different experience each time. Qeynos and Freeport do that well with their racial advisors. SF does it badly with very little choice of what quests to do. I have 5 toons at level 80. I don't want to do the same set of quests with all of them."a more guided experience through content" - it does need to be any more guided than it already is. The freedom to make my own choices is important. Quest hubs are already somewhat overdone."The Storyteller System will move players along through content that we feel will give them a fun and exciting experience." - That sounds horrible. I can make my own decisions as to what is fun. I know there is a lot of variation. For example some people might find battlegrounds fun, but it has no appeal to me. I don't want to pushed along what some designer thinks is the most fun path. It will almost certainly not be the most fun for me. Sure have a guided path for those that want it, but make sure there are plenty of other obvious options for those that do not. Note that what is fun for me depends partly on my mood. One of the things I have liked about EQ2 is that there have been options available to suit many moods.

Donilla

03-01-2010, 03:15 PM

I would expect all of this to be optional, so I can't imagine anyone being forced into linear game play if they don't wish to be. I chronomaged my mian and took her to BBM to see what the path was all about. What I found were Ironforge NPCs in the same place I was, the docks and griffon tower area, which completely made sense. The quests then show you the way to each of the next hubs, logical and helpful for anyone wanted to know where to go next. And trust me, read the level1 chat channel and there is constant questions on where to go next.Talk to that pirate standing there and you get told what level you need to best experience the next zone, and which zone it is. Helpful again if you want to know the next level up after BBM might be SF.I can't imagine Qeynos and Freeport will disappear. After all, where would the elves, half elves and humans start. Kelethin and Halas will not be logical replacements and we are not hearing about any elven starting cities. As for Freeport, I haven't heard anything about a ogre or troll home, have you? And they could keep on destroying that city, giving themselves a nice excuse for a revamp. I'm going to assume something along those lines.

Ciara52

03-01-2010, 04:48 PM

<cite>Graymane-Dunedain wrote:</cite><blockquote>Thanks for the heads up that you are planning to abandon the starting zones we pre Sentinal's Fate newbies just spent the last three months getting used to.Really, really nice to discover I invested 3 months in dead end, soon to be abandoned starter zones.So new players who choose the human race are automatically sent to a starter zone that the game designers are "moving away from"?Does this mean that in order to experience the new and improved version of the starter "experience" one has to choose a race that will place them in one of the newer starter zones that the devs actually intend to invest development time into?Where is the up front warning to new players choosing to create human characters that they will be relegated to an obsolete, no longer going to be improved starter zone and will be precluded from participating in the Golden Path.As you can probably guess, I am more than a little perturbed to discover only now that the zone I started in and call home is being "moved away from" by the development team.Perhaps you are not truly intending to abandon Qeynos and Freeport and just made a poor choice of words in conveying your intent.One can only hope. p.s. feeling more than a little like a victim of fraud here</blockquote>I still intend to hang around Freeport and Qeynos with my alts. In fact one just started "Kill 10 Rats" lol And Lucan has yet to return so I opt for the hope that something will be done for them. Either way there is, in my opinion, a good story progression for both places. And you can pick up the Golden Path in BB. Maybe Nek and TS will be changed too. I don't know I haven't looked around there to much lately if things have changed.

Brook

03-01-2010, 05:26 PM

Kiara Stated in another post that they will not be getting rid of whats there already, at least that's my take on what was said, Brenlo made some comments that were not the best choice of words.Does that mean that Quest rewards in the Qeynos and Freeport starter hubs will be brought up to the same standards as the rest of the starter zones/quest hubs, or will they continue to be ignored?I for one would like to see some love given to the old world content vs abandoning the content that is there. The overland zones could use a little danger added back to them, not a lot, but a little.

xeyda

03-01-2010, 05:42 PM

It would be awesome to get some kind of official response on this panic that is building about Qeynos and Freeport... Brenlo?

Adba

03-01-2010, 10:30 PM

Ooh oh!The Erudites finally get the Nexus chamber opened, only to unleash a devilish volatile void-infested gnomi-magicha thingie.. The DVV-IGM takes off into the sky, pops out of Ultera, goes into search and destroy mode, splits and smashes into outer Freeport and Qeynos, devastating the newb areas completely because they have the "highest known concentration of young innocence" (cough) but leaving the central cities intact.. And thus begins the rebuilding...I can totally see that happening! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" />Sorry, my imagination ran off with me.. I love the Golden path, and I'm really looking forward to the Storyteller.

Nightho

03-02-2010, 04:29 AM

A big thumbs up from me!I took my 80 troub (mentored to 65 then to 70 once we hit PoA) out with my brothers 60 warden to start the new quests in TT, he got 5 lvl's before we ended the night after we got our cloud mounts (I used chonomage and he joined me after I'd been out a while so he was not getting mentored exp from me) And before I finished the BS / BM quests my troub was 82 and had a couple AA's out of it!I remember doing KoS back in the day and the endless searching and asking friends if they knew where more quests were... I spent way too much time just grinding in SoS for exp. The new quests are amazing and I know everyone new to the game or been around for years like me, will find it much more enjoyable in KoS at least! (haven't check any other zones yet)

Morro Twistedbriar

03-02-2010, 11:29 AM

Want a better newb experience? Give people a reason to group at lower levels. How many lower level characters go lfg all day and dont find anyone? It's an MMO peopel dont want to solo till 60's or greater, golden path or not, New players come thinking they will find other players to group with and meet. In general this does not happen for most new players. Instances at lower levels would help. The revamp of Kaladim is a great idea, we need more such things. Do like in eq1 did, make some of the newb instances hot zones with better exp and switch them around. All-in-all people need a reason to group.

Cordy

03-02-2010, 12:14 PM

The golden path is a very nice idea, well done SOE. However I would like to see some more work going into the new Sentinels Fate zones immediately and adding sufficient solo content to allow a character to get to level 90. I can not understand why this has not been done. I would like the people at SOE to understand that not everyone is able to group often enough to progress their characters due to circumstances. My circumstances being looking after a young daughter every day all day, when it is impossible to group as it is not fair on the people I am grouping with for constant afk's, or my daughter as I am trying to share attention between game and her. Therefore I do NOT group when I have her, only solo quest. In addition I raid 3 nights a week after daughter in bed, therefore leaving only 2 nights of remaining 4, as other 2 nights I am socialising with the world (family and friends).

Deson

03-03-2010, 02:24 PM

Carnak

03-03-2010, 10:58 PM

how do you know when u are on the golden path. I have a toon in the TD starting area.

Calthine

03-03-2010, 11:30 PM

<cite>Carnak@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>how do you know when u are on the golden path. I have a toon in the TD starting area.</blockquote>There's nothing special to indicate you are on it. It's just a series of zones that have extremely tight content.<a href="http://eq2.zam.com/wiki/The_Golden_Path" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://eq2.zam.com/wiki/The_Golden_Path</a>

Knappy

03-04-2010, 11:47 AM

So it's not a path at all?It's more or less a general grouping of quest giving npc's?I have to admit I was a little excited hearing about a 'path' that would dictate a clear line of progression from start toend-game....And a little disappointed to discover that it wasn't actually a path at all. I think 'Golden Grouping of NPC's'would be a slightly more accurate description.Why church it up? Putting frosting on a [Removed for Content] (no matter how delicious that frosting might be) doesn't make it a cupcake.

Calthine

03-04-2010, 01:41 PM

It was mentioned in a podcast and the community grasped that phrase and won't let it go! Reading Brenlo's post, I'm inclined to think it was what it was called in the dev workroom and it kinda stuck.If you get to Butcherblock Mountains there is a new signature quest that does rather hold your hand up through the 70's <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />

xeyda

03-04-2010, 01:51 PM

Still waiting for an official response to the whole Qeynos/Freeport confusion.C'mon, guys!

Cyliena

03-04-2010, 02:45 PM

<cite>Lexander@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Still waiting for an official response to the whole Qeynos/Freeport confusion.C'mon, guys!</blockquote>There's a <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=471996" target="_blank">dev chat</a> coming up, hopefully someone will get a question regarding this answered there. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> I have many chars in Qeynos so I am curious myself!

Guleipho

03-04-2010, 03:41 PM

<cite>Morro Twistedbriar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Want a better newb experience? Give people a reason to group at lower levels. How many lower level characters go lfg all day and dont find anyone? It's an MMO peopel dont want to solo till 60's or greater, golden path or not, New players come thinking they will find other players to group with and meet. In general this does not happen for most new players. Instances at lower levels would help. The revamp of Kaladim is a great idea, we need more such things. Do like in eq1 did, make some of the newb instances hot zones with better exp and switch them around. All-in-all people need a reason to group.</blockquote>This is a comment I do agree with.Most people I have seen group for FG, WC, and maybe BB but that's it at lower levels. And the occasional group to kill a named for AA.But no real reason to besides that. And that's a shame. I do know Antonica was revamped so many Heroics are now gone taking away the reason to group.<cite>Aesome@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote>So it's not a path at all?It's more or less a general grouping of quest giving npc's?I have to admit I was a little excited hearing about a 'path' that would dictate a clear line of progression from start toend-game....And a little disappointed to discover that it wasn't actually a path at all. I think 'Golden Grouping of NPC's'would be a slightly more accurate description.Why church it up? Putting frosting on a [Removed for Content] (no matter how delicious that frosting might be) doesn't make it a cupcake.</blockquote>I can sort of give you an explination of it, as I've gone through a bit.First off, you'll notice new NPCs with quests in Timorous Deep and Greater Faydark. TD ones go a bit more into the lore of the war between the Sarnak and the Hoareans.Secondly, pay attention to what the NPCs say. They usually "hint" on who to talk to next but not give an actual quest.BBM got the biggest revamp of them all. When you do TD/Neriak/GFay, there are supposed to be quests at a certain point that direct you to visit BBM docks. That is where there are more NPCs and you will notice a better progression of quests in a "line" as well as a big change to NPC and mob positions.Now, my guess is from what OP said, that from BBM, you will be directed to another zone for quests when you finish those in the Golden Path from BBM or before that.