Floating...

[Loendar]

<p>Figured I would ask here - since I don't know where else to look...</p><p>I played EQ1 for a long time and traveled to the areas covered in the new expansion and don't recall any portion of it hovering the sky a la Kingdom of Sky.</p><p>What happened that made Odus and the environs look and feel just like KoS?!?</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p>In the Erudite's attempts to construct a new Nexus to enable teleportation around Norrath once again, they ended up tapping into a new dimension called Ulteria. When their attempts went wrong due to a miscalculation (at least, I hope that's the case, because there are theories that it was intentional,) the entire continent was transported into Ulteria.</p>

[Loendar]

<p>And - there I have it.....</p><p>Thanks. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Mustang8259]

<p>Ok I am admitedly confused on one part though... I get that Odus teleported to Ulteria, but is that where it (and we) are now?! or did it get teleported back to Norrath and we're just teleporting up to it from down on the ground?  If we're actually goin into Ulteria that would explain the different looking sky and why I can't remember seeing the destroyed moon Luclin while in any of the overland Odus zones... I figure we're in Ulteria but I don't remember it actually saying that anywhere, so can someone comfirm/deny that's where we're goin when we head up to Odus?</p>

[teddyboy4]

<p><cite>Mustang8259 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Ok I am admitedly confused on one part though... I get that Odus teleported to Ulteria, but is that where it (and we) are now?! or did it get teleported back to Norrath and we're just teleporting up to it from down on the ground?  If we're actually goin into Ulteria that would explain the different looking sky and why I can't remember seeing the destroyed moon Luclin while in any of the overland Odus zones... I figure we're in Ulteria but I don't remember it actually saying that anywhere, so can someone comfirm/deny that's where we're goin when we head up to Odus?</p></blockquote><p>You're not actually in Ultera, nor are you in Norrath....Odus, and everyone and everything on it became slightly "phased out" of Norrathian reality, or rather, it weakened the space around Odus and now the "walls" between the dimensions are "thin" there. That's why in some places you can see that orangy-yellowish Ulteran sky mixed in with the blue of Norrath.</p><p>At least, that's how I understand the mess Odus is in.</p>

[iceriven2]

<p>Odus is in Ulteria, theres a quest series in Paniel that mentions odus is there and is being pulled by the void in one direction and the underfoot, which is anchored in Norrath on the other.  And no matter what happened it seems Norrath can be doomed.</p><p>The quest npc says something along the lines of...</p><p>If odus is destroyed, the void could continue pulling the underfoot and in turn the rest of Norrath, if its not, Odus could be push intot the underfoot with disastrous result for Norrath.  so it will be interesting how it  plays out...</p>

[Taurus_WD]

<p><cite>iceriven2 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Odus is in Ulteria, theres a quest series in Paniel that mentions odus is there and is being pulled by the void in one direction and the underfoot, which is anchored in Norrath on the other.  And no matter what happened it seems Norrath can be doomed.</p><p>The quest npc says something along the lines of...</p><p>If odus is destroyed, the void could continue pulling the underfoot and in turn the rest of Norrath, if its not, Odus could be push intot the underfoot with disastrous result for Norrath.  so it will be interesting how it  plays out...</p></blockquote><p>Next Expansion...  The Underfoot, followed by Velious.</p>

[Mustang8259]

<p>Ahhh! Thanks much for clearing that up, has been a nagging question in the back of my mind since Beta =)</p>

[Meirril]

<p><cite>Acuza@The Bazaar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>iceriven2 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Odus is in Ulteria, theres a quest series in Paniel that mentions odus is there and is being pulled by the void in one direction and the underfoot, which is anchored in Norrath on the other.  And no matter what happened it seems Norrath can be doomed.</p><p>The quest npc says something along the lines of...</p><p>If odus is destroyed, the void could continue pulling the underfoot and in turn the rest of Norrath, if its not, Odus could be push intot the underfoot with disastrous result for Norrath.  so it will be interesting how it  plays out...</p></blockquote><p>Next Expansion...  The Underfoot, followed by Velious.</p></blockquote><p>I really hope so. The Underfoot could be fun, and that would leave Velious for level 90-100. 100 seems like a good number for Velious!</p>

[Foolsfolly]

<p>I very much doubt the Underfoot will be an entire expansion. More likely just an Game Update with a new raid zone, and a bit of lore advancement.</p><p>Next expansion will be Velious, or less likely Katta Castrum or the remains of Luclin. Or who knows, with their new spire network completed the Erudites might start breaking down the walls and get us back into Kuua, or other yet-unknown worlds. Now that Theer is here he could even lead us back into the greater plains of the gods.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p><cite>Foolsfolly wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I very much doubt the Underfoot will be an entire expansion. More likely just an Game Update with a new raid zone, and a bit of lore advancement.</p><p>Next expansion will be Velious, <span style="text-decoration: line-through;">or less likely Katta Castrum or the remains of Luclin. Or who knows, with their new spire network completed the Erudites might start breaking down the walls and get us back into Kuua, or other yet-unknown worlds. Now that Theer is here he could even lead us back into the greater plains of the gods.</span></p></blockquote><p>None of those places exist in EQ2's timeline, and Luclin was destroyed so that we could never go back there ever again.</p><p>The greater planes are mostly out of the question as well. We'd just be risking history repeating itself. If we weakened the gods again and they withdrew again, so many things across Norrath would turn disasterous quickly. Possibly even ANOTHER Rending that would sink most of the world.</p>

[Meirril]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Foolsfolly wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I very much doubt the Underfoot will be an entire expansion. More likely just an Game Update with a new raid zone, and a bit of lore advancement.</p><p>Next expansion will be Velious, <span style="text-decoration: line-through;">or less likely Katta Castrum or the remains of Luclin. Or who knows, with their new spire network completed the Erudites might start breaking down the walls and get us back into Kuua, or other yet-unknown worlds. Now that Theer is here he could even lead us back into the greater plains of the gods.</span></p></blockquote><p>None of those places exist in EQ2's timeline, and Luclin was destroyed so that we could never go back there ever again.</p><p>The greater planes are mostly out of the question as well. We'd just be risking history repeating itself. If we weakened the gods again and they withdrew again, so many things across Norrath would turn disasterous quickly. Possibly even ANOTHER Rending that would sink most of the world.</p></blockquote><p>Katta Castillum did exist in EQ2. After the shattering...who knows? It is possible that reminents of Luclin retain life (or undead) and could possibly be visited someday. It would be much like visiting Odus or Kingdom of Sky. Islands floating around with some transport method between them.</p><p>If we can actually enter the Underfoot (or even a fragment there of) it is certainly possible that it could become the crux of an entire expansion. It is possible that is where the Kaladim Dwarves moved to during their crusade and we as adventurers help them enter Brell's Vault, plus hold back the forces that seek to expel Brell's creations from the underfoot and reclaim it for the Rathe alone.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p><cite>Meirril wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Foolsfolly wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I very much doubt the Underfoot will be an entire expansion. More likely just an Game Update with a new raid zone, and a bit of lore advancement.</p><p>Next expansion will be Velious, <span style="text-decoration: line-through;">or less likely Katta Castrum or the remains of Luclin. Or who knows, with their new spire network completed the Erudites might start breaking down the walls and get us back into Kuua, or other yet-unknown worlds. Now that Theer is here he could even lead us back into the greater plains of the gods.</span></p></blockquote><p>None of those places exist in EQ2's timeline, and Luclin was destroyed so that we could never go back there ever again.</p><p>The greater planes are mostly out of the question as well. We'd just be risking history repeating itself. If we weakened the gods again and they withdrew again, so many things across Norrath would turn disasterous quickly. Possibly even ANOTHER Rending that would sink most of the world.</p></blockquote><p>Katta Castillum did exist in EQ2.</p></blockquote><p>He said Castrum, not Castellum. Castrum was introduced to EQlive long after EQ2 came out and established it's split in the timeline.</p>

[Nevao]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>He said Castrum, not Castellum. Castrum was introduced to EQlive long after EQ2 came out and established it's split in the timeline.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff9900;">Strangely enough I thought the rule of thumb was there were no guarentees something that happened after the timeline split happened/existed, not THERE'S NO POSSIBLE WAY THEY EXIST, like you so often seem to to imply.</span></p>

[Cusashorn]

<p><cite>Nevao wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>He said Castrum, not Castellum. Castrum was introduced to EQlive long after EQ2 came out and established it's split in the timeline.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff9900;">Strangely enough I thought the rule of thumb was there were no guarentees something that happened after the timeline split happened/existed, not THERE'S NO POSSIBLE WAY THEY EXIST, like you so often seem to to imply.</span></p></blockquote><p>Castrum's existence in EQlive itself was a huge retcon to it's own lore by throwing out the original story stating that Phinigel Autropos was the ONLY survivor of the ENTIRE Kedge race across Norrath after he conducted his ritual to obtain immortality.</p><p>If there was even mention in passing of it's existence somewhere before Planes of Power had been released, then I'd support the theory that it could be introduced at some point or another... but it wasn't, so I don't.</p>

[Foolsfolly]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Foolsfolly wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I very much doubt the Underfoot will be an entire expansion. More likely just an Game Update with a new raid zone, and a bit of lore advancement.</p><p>Next expansion will be Velious, <span style="text-decoration: line-through;">or less likely Katta Castrum or the remains of Luclin. Or who knows, with their new spire network completed the Erudites might start breaking down the walls and get us back into Kuua, or other yet-unknown worlds. Now that Theer is here he could even lead us back into the greater plains of the gods.</span></p></blockquote><p>None of those places exist in EQ2's timeline, and Luclin was destroyed so that we could never go back there ever again.</p><p>The greater planes are mostly out of the question as well. We'd just be risking history repeating itself. If we weakened the gods again and they withdrew again, so many things across Norrath would turn disasterous quickly. Possibly even ANOTHER Rending that would sink most of the world.</p></blockquote><p>Those places were never opened to adventurers in EQ2's timeline, that certainly does not mean they do not exist. If their lore states that they were created before the time-split, then I maintain that they should exist in eq2 in some form and are viable for future exploration.</p><p>Look up in the sky, you can clearly see that many large chunks of Luclin are still there. The moon was only able to sustain life due to the power of the goddess, so she may well have protected that life through the explosion. Such actions may not be in her nature, but the point is it's possible. Moreover, much of the life on Luclin was undead, so many of those critters could still be crawling around the ruins up there, carrying valuable artifacts they recovered from the destruction. The shissar especially are notoriously hard to kill, and should have found some way to survive.</p><p>Now that Theer is here he may well be able to forbid the gods from leaving again, under penalty of death if they try to abandon Norrath. This would allow adventurers to have their fun in the greater plains again without fear of repurcussions.</p>

[Lodrelhai]

<p>That's a lot to assume, particularly about Theer.  We don't yet know if our actions will free him, or destroy him, or bind him in the Void once and for all.  And even if he is freed and takes his place over the pantheon once more, why would he be inclined to allow the mortals to attack those same gods, and on their home planes no less?  Were he to do that, there's no reason for him not to expect us to some day turn our swords on him some day - point in fact, he could count on it.</p><p>The planes, at the least, I expect to stay well sealed against mortals for as long as the gods can manage it.</p><p>To the rest, I say any assumptions or deductions based on what the devs <em>might</em> some day introduce to us is so much smoke on the wind.  The gnomes <em>might</em> some day create ships capable of flying to other planets, the dwarves <em>might</em> retake Kaladim, and the fae queen <em>might </em>die and clear the way for her xenophobic heir to kick all outsiders out of Kelethin.  And all of those are possibilities based on current game lore and circumstances.  The simple fact with places like Katta Castrum and Kuua is they aren't part of EQ2's story and the devs are under no obligation whatsoever to so much as aknowledge their existence, much less bring them into EQ2.</p><p>With all the lore we do have, with all the incomplete stories and hanging threads, with the tidbits and hints the devs lay all over the place for us, do we really need to reference things that don't now and might never exist in EQ2 to find new stories?</p>

[teddyboy4]

<p>While I won't use words as strong as Cusa does (which usually end up haunting him), I will say that while it is <em>technically</em> possible that places like Kuua, and Katta Castrum and other (imo) ridiculous retcons do indeed exist in our timeline/universe/world, I think it highly unlikely that they do, or that we will ever even so much as hear about them in EQ2.</p><p>EQ2, while it does have it's root firmly attached in the pre-PoP EQlive Norrath, doesn't need to include all the things that were introduced into EQ post-PoP for the simple reason that EQ2 has plenty of it's own as-of-yet unsolved mysteries. The EQ2 devs do not need to invent/introduce all the retcons, and other "interesting" (to put it nicely) developments that EQlive saw post-PoP simply b/c there's still a lot of material to use and build off of here. EQlive saw all that post-PoP lore/content simply b/c there really wasn't anything left to work off of, so they had to invent "new" places for the players to go to to keep things interesting. I guess what I'm trying to say is that in EQ2 the devs don't need to go out and invent, or bring in, places like Taelosia or w/e, b/c there are still known places, and storylines going on here that we have yet to explore.</p><p>I hope I was able to express my point clearly enough....</p><p>Anywho</p><p>I also will not put a return to Luclin out of the question. While some people may say that everything on Luclin was destroyed, and that there's nothing up there, and thus no reason to go there or worry about it, I have to strongly disagree. If you look at Luclin, yes it is in pieces, but those are pretty large pieces, large enough for gravity to keep it together...and who knows, maybe it still has an atmosphere.</p><p>While I have absolutely no doubt that the moon of Luclin, and it's residents, suffered massive destruction and loss, I think it is entirely within the realm of possibility that there were survivors and that there are still civilizations on Luclin. I mean, look at who resided on Luclin, some of the most powerful beings and civilizations ever known on (or around) Norrath outside of the gods themselves.</p><p>Lets take a look....We know the Shissar likely knew about the impending Shattering a la their calender; we know the Ahkevans were incredibly powerful beings that were regularly in-touch with their patron diety; then there is the Shar Val who were plenty powerful and advanced in their own right; I'm guessing the people of Shadow Haven probably all died but you never know; then there are the 2 Combine factions w/ their mix of Vampirism and such...I don't know, I think it's entirely possibly that there's still quite a bit going on on Luclin.</p>

[Elepian]

<p><cite>Lodrelhai wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>That's a lot to assume, particularly about Theer.  We don't yet know if our actions will free him, or destroy him, or bind him in the Void once and for all.  And even if he is freed and takes his place over the pantheon once more, why would he be inclined to allow the mortals to attack those same gods, and on their home planes no less?  Were he to do that, there's no reason for him not to expect us to some day turn our swords on him some day - point in fact, he could count on it.</p><p>The planes, at the least, I expect to stay well sealed against mortals for as long as the gods can manage it.</p><p>To the rest, I say any assumptions or deductions based on what the devs <em>might</em> some day introduce to us is so much smoke on the wind.  The gnomes <em>might</em> some day create ships capable of flying to other planets, the dwarves <em>might</em> retake Kaladim, and the fae queen <em>might </em>die and clear the way for her xenophobic heir to kick all outsiders out of Kelethin.  And all of those are possibilities based on current game lore and circumstances.  The simple fact with places like Katta Castrum and Kuua is they aren't part of EQ2's story and the devs are under no obligation whatsoever to so much as aknowledge their existence, much less bring them into EQ2.</p><p>With all the lore we do have, with all the incomplete stories and hanging threads, with the tidbits and hints the devs lay all over the place for us, do we really need to reference things that don't now and might never exist in EQ2 to find new stories?</p></blockquote><p>The last live update Will of a Tyrant , when you go to work for both Overlord and Queen, you are seeking the Queen as she has been kidnapped, it turns out that it is the Spirit of her ancestor Kane Bayle ( Whom if I could remind everyone was hellbent on the destruction of Civilization and betrayed Antonius trying to kill him after siding with the Indigo Brotherhood.) possessed Antonia's Most trusted advisor and friend Murrar Shar not to mention, a member of the Order of Marr who as lore states was the order in which The Qeynos Claymore was entrusted to.  When you find Kane Bayle holding Antonia Bayle Captive he has found the sword and makes away with QC , Also when You inadvertently help that Lucanic Knight that both yourself and Lucan D'lere believe to be loyal to him, you help her find the real Soulfire, and she takes it from the Overlord.  He is still missing in action, probably because He wants the power for himself as his main goal is enslavement of the world to do his bidding alone. </p>

[Lodrelhai]

<p><cite>Elepian@Kithicor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Lodrelhai wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>That's a lot to assume, particularly about Theer.  We don't yet know if our actions will free him, or destroy him, or bind him in the Void once and for all.  And even if he is freed and takes his place over the pantheon once more, why would he be inclined to allow the mortals to attack those same gods, and on their home planes no less?  Were he to do that, there's no reason for him not to expect us to some day turn our swords on him some day - point in fact, he could count on it.</p><p>The planes, at the least, I expect to stay well sealed against mortals for as long as the gods can manage it.</p><p>To the rest, I say any assumptions or deductions based on what the devs <em>might</em> some day introduce to us is so much smoke on the wind.  The gnomes <em>might</em> some day create ships capable of flying to other planets, the dwarves <em>might</em> retake Kaladim, and the fae queen <em>might </em>die and clear the way for her xenophobic heir to kick all outsiders out of Kelethin.  And all of those are possibilities based on current game lore and circumstances.  The simple fact with places like Katta Castrum and Kuua is they aren't part of EQ2's story and the devs are under no obligation whatsoever to so much as aknowledge their existence, much less bring them into EQ2.</p><p>With all the lore we do have, with all the incomplete stories and hanging threads, with the tidbits and hints the devs lay all over the place for us, do we really need to reference things that don't now and might never exist in EQ2 to find new stories?</p></blockquote><p>The last live update Will of a Tyrant , when you go to work for both Overlord and Queen, you are seeking the Queen as she has been kidnapped, it turns out that it is the Spirit of her ancestor Kane Bayle ( Whom if I could remind everyone was hellbent on the destruction of Civilization and betrayed Antonius trying to kill him after siding with the Indigo Brotherhood.) possessed Antonia's Most trusted advisor and friend Murrar Shar not to mention, a member of the Order of Marr who as lore states was the order in which The Qeynos Claymore was entrusted to.  When you find Kane Bayle holding Antonia Bayle Captive he has found the sword and makes away with QC , Also when You inadvertently help that Lucanic Knight that both yourself and Lucan D'lere believe to be loyal to him, you help her find the real Soulfire, and she takes it from the Overlord.  He is still missing in action, probably because He wants the power for himself as his main goal is enslavement of the world to do his bidding alone. </p></blockquote><p>Not quite sure how that relates to what I posted, but also not quite accurate.  It's KYLE Bayle that has possessed Murrar Shar, not Kane - if I remember right, he predates Kane.  Technically neither Kane nor Kyle are ancestors of Antonia, as Kane's only offspring died and Kyle, to the best of our knowledge, had no surviving children.  Antonia's descended of Antonius.</p><p>Kyle also doesn't take possession of the Claymore until after we free Antonia.  When we show up, he's trying to get its location from her.  I'm fairly certain Murrar Shar was not a member of the Order of Marr, either - it's the guy who was murdered who was part of both the Order of Marr and the conclave if I remember right.</p><p>No clue why Lucan would remain MIA by choice or how that would help him accrue more power - he's more likely to be losing power in his absence.  The longer he's missing, the more the Thexians and other factions in Freeport will fight to take control themselves.  Which means the more of a fight Lucan will have to get his city back.</p>

[Elepian]

<p>Lodre- </p><p>Didn't get back on soon enough to change my post! Had to ask my wife to refresh my memory on that live event and pretty much what you just said further confirmed what I was told hehe But, as far as I know AT LEAST Soulfire is missing and I couldn't agree more with you on what could happen to Freeport the longer the overlord remains absent from his rule, already theres disorder in the city, and I'm sure there are already Thexians moving in to take it for their own, or perhaps even the Queen of Neriak Cristanos I believe is her name.. When I was reading the dark elf lore the dark elves said they merely joined with the Overlord because they were waiting for the right opportunity to seize power for themselves.  Why not now? The Teir'Dal aren't the type of race that submits willingly unless it is to their advantage.  </p><p>Love the lore of both EQLive and EQ2, though I may not have it all right I believe that its going to be a long road of chaos if Soulfire isn't retrieved and some of these evil factions aren't thinned.  I would love to be further educated on the lore of EQ2 so if anyone has any good links for me to take a look at I'd love to oblige you.  About your post regarding the Queen of Kelethin having a Xenophobic Heir.. who are you referring to? </p>

[Pyra Shineflame]

<p>It's part of the Fae race quest line, you learn that Queen Amree has more or less welcomed outsiders into Kelethin despite the misgivings of many, but that her brat whose name I can't recall right now, wants to kick them all out, labeling outsiders as disease carriers (the Grender quest line) and generally bad news.</p>

[iceriven2]

<p>isnt there a quest or the recent live event indicate the pricess is or will be in the order of Marr?  remember thinking that would be weird considering how hateful is towards outsiders.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p>One of the heritage quests (The Raincaller, I believe), teaches her that it's ok to trust outsiders.. or at least you.</p>

[Rainmare]

<p>yes, Will of the Tyrant does reveal that priness Saphira, which I think is close to her name, was a captain/high rank in the faydwer branch of the order of marr. and yes, she is quite xenophobic.</p><p>people who have managed to beat 'easy' Theer find that Theer has Lucan in captivity. why, we don't know. but we do know that once Theer is bested and lucan freed...that Kerafyrm, who has been 'helping' you this whole time...uses a ritual similar to what we use to empower ourselves with our mythical weapons on Exonus and Aeteok...Lucan even says that Soulfire's power is mostly diminished when he gets it back. Of course not before claiming that he wasn't in need of rescue, he was just 'biding his time' to 'strike at the perfect moment' and then he supposedly leaves to go reclaim Freeport.</p><p>I imagine his imprisonment was part of the deal Theer made with Taylix to have her retrieve soulfire. he gets the blade, and gets Lucan out of the way for her.  And if Lucan thinks Cristanos is gunna give all those artifacts back that the dreadguard took, I bet he's in for a rude awakening. The whole Opal debacle should have shown him that much about how much cristanos really cares about the 'darklight pact'.</p><p>I think it coudl pave the way for Lucan/Freeport to find itself like it was 500 years ago. with him controling a portion with the militia and the dreadnaughts..adn the Thexians controling the rest. which makes lucan a non-threat to Qeynos, and can be a way to start the transition brenlo mentioned about moving away from freeport/qeynos as starter cities.</p>