Help me understand [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

Striikor

02-13-2010, 03:59 PM

Help me understand the logic here. If my logic is not compelling enough then unending numbers and variables will make no difference. We are apparently being pushed to Melee AutoAttack and Ranged AutoAttack. Both of which at this point appear to do equal or less damage than rogues and our brother predator. There are a good deal of procs on the SF equipment now with more to come apparently that are triggered off of melee attack only not ranged melee. We will only get main and off hand procs while within the range that we can Melee AutoAttack and Melee CA. That means less than 2 meters out. Our Ranged CA’s will not fire while we are in range to Melee AutoAttack. Meaning we must be more than 2 meters out. And while we concentrate on being more than 2 meters out to use our ranged CA’s we must be stationary like a mage. Procs we have on main, off hand or many other items will not trigger regardless of the description on them unless they specify Ranged AutoAttack. (yup, you can sure find a bunch of those…. not). Is anyone else confused by the descriptions that indicate what is required to proc? Ie; “On a successful Combat Attack”, “On any Successful Combat Art” …. Yada yada yada really we just all assume that if it is Main or Offhand proc it will not proc for ranged melee or ranged ca right? We still have to maintain position on the mob ie; behind the mob and more than 2 meters away as the bulk of our CA Damage requires it. (because the minimum range will be in effect on new bows, the removal of minimum range for ranged autoattack does not transfer with the myth CAzation) The long bow delay lets us fire off our slow casting CA's which would delay melee autoattack. We are not a desired class for groups or raids now. Once all this kicks in I am really confused as to what role we are designed to fill. The sum total is that we will be still less desirable and I was not sure that could happen. What DPS we can provide is going to have to be generated by jousting between 1 and 3 meters constantly. Not because of mob specifics but because of Ranger mechanics and itemization. And that theoretical DPS is going to be incredibly difficult to supply reliably as the mobs will move we will constantly be to close for ranged CA’s or too far for melee. half a meter of movement is going to invalidate either ranged or melee take your pick. Even soloing it again becomes an issue because such a large portion of our DPS is going to require we maintain our distance from the mob alternating between 1 and 3 meters without a root capability as snare is only effective if we are in unique places where we can kite and not run into other mobs or obstacles and take our time moving while firing off Ranged Autoattack with quick stops now and then to trigger a CA. I am confused as to what we have become but whatever it is seems to becoming more prevalent. Our Ranged CA’s have a minimum range (unlike the mage) and most require we be stationary like a mage but with much less damage. And we have much longer casting, recast and recovery time adn straight out damage than our fellow predator. Our melee CA’s trigger Melee AutoAttack but can generally be fired off outside of melee autoattack range so we lose few ticks while we try to make sure we are in close enough for melee AutoAttack to hit after having to move in from where we had to be to trigger our ranged CA’s. All this is changing while the mob is moving and turning. This is going to occur constantly on any encounter. Now to top it all off even if we get all of this perfect, (Ie; the mob does not move or turn and we perform our 1-3 meter jousting without missing a beat) we still cannot compete for a top DPS spot. Even with consideration to the addition of some fairly weak Aoe’s and removal of minimum range on those. AoE’s which will not make us competitive with warlocks by any stretch of the imagination. Which were put in place to fulfill the AoE side of predator as the warlock does for sorcerer? Therefore DPS is not our role. Hmmm that leaves Healing and Utility for a Role right? Are there more than three basic roles? Am I missing one? Healing ummmmm ya Healing ….. ok Lets move to utility. Utility we have Attack Hawk that will not hit mobs and lowers OUR hate position three spots when it dies …. Oh wait I said utility … ok then on to the next one. We have Natures Focus that if we spend five AA in it will give our group members 20 seconds of 25% improved accuracy at master. Or if I we trigger it off constantly we get .25x.33 (1/3 of a minute and yes I am discounting hastening as it is negligible) or a constant 9% accuracy so a utility better provided by other classes that bring a permanent change to accuracy unless they are actively canceled? Maybe Pathfinding? ….. no that also is better provided elsewhere. Tracking? Can you spell maps? Debuffs everyone know that Rangers are the king of debuffing! Oh right sorry .... OK so our role is …. I don’t know actually as I indicated I am confused. Possible fixes? Extend all of our melee including Melee Autoattack to be able to reach the mobs at 5 meters or at least 3 meters. I think a minimum range actually keeps it interesting. But currently it keeps it unworkable. Even then our under powered and long casting CA's will delay melee autoattack. Remove the 192 slashing and piercing REDUCTION nerf from Focus Aim if you are forcing us to melee Allow movement while casting Ranged CA’s so we can position like the rest of melee Add casting and recasting improvement on Hunter’s Instinct to give us competitive CA damage. Sins get 78 DPS we get 49 attack speed? C’mon! Give us something that allows us to do considerably more damage with bows than other classes if you are going to insist we range. NM we do get the 20% from Myth CAzation, which would be wonderful if our bow damage had not been nerfd previously Change Hawk Attack to raise fighter three positions instead of dropping us 3 positions. Change procs (AoE or whatever) to be based off the Mob targeted/hit instead of the player. It maybe that developers have us set for great things in BG, personally I am not much interested. Maybe we need to totally switch to that venue. Our maybe I am just missing the role we have in PvE. If that is the case can someone please explain it to me? I do not know what we did to [Removed for Content] off the gods of Norrath .... perhaps a mass Ranger suicide/sacrifice will bring thier favor back to Rangers. If this were a poker hand I was delt I would fold. Personally I am going to wait till release day to fold. There may be something in the works haha.

irbi

02-13-2010, 08:23 PM

Repeat you post here<a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/pm/sendTo.m?user_id=414759" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...?user_id=414759</a>fifty times.

Azrael_888

02-13-2010, 09:21 PM

yes pls

Carpediem

02-13-2010, 10:07 PM

Brad McQuaid's favorite class was a ranger. They're screwing us over to get back at him!!!! j/kSeriously though, you have a lot of valid points man, but anything posted in the ranger forums here kind of gets ignored. I really don't think anyone other than Kiara reads this forum (and that's just to make sure we're following the forum rules)We're a class that is totally different from every other class and honestly even though we have told them exactly what would need to be done and multiple paths on how to do that, they ignore it.I don't know if it's because if they listen to us, other classes will complain saying that devs need to do what they say as well or what.Before beta I hardly ever checked these boards, then I turned into an obsessed troll reading them countless times a day in hopes of devs doing something. Now I'm just so tired of all of it, I'm just running out of fight left in me.

Neiloch

02-14-2010, 01:39 AM

If they switch us to melee auto attack for a couple of months or more I'm quitting EQ2. Its just that simple. Only logic I can think of is they are assigning rangers the role of 'easy solo class' dismissing any balance they might need for groups or raids. So instead of assigning classes group/raid roles they are assigning them playstyle roles. It seems unlikely and is just a horrible idea but to me it follows what little information we have. If you want to kill solo content really fast you get your ranger, if you want to do high DPS in a group setting you get your Assassin. If you want to be really popular you get your bard or enchanter. If you want to solo some group stuff go get your summoner, Etc. This wouldn't surprise me considering how easy it is to have alts, and how other classes seem to be having the same problems. I can just imagine the devs in their office 'why are rangers so [Removed for Content] about being crap on raids when they can dominate solo content? shouldn't they be doing that all day?' Also like to note I am pro 'make us more range oriented' so its not needed we act like every other scout in the game to DPS properly. My personal dilemma is I just can't bring myself to play any other class, but every other MMO I have played with ranger archetypes does rangers better (seriously go play vanguard and copy those rangers exactly Eq2 devs). Unfortunately I have strong social ties here with both friends and family and I have finally gotten into a decent raiding guild and I can't bring myself to quit. Maybe FF14 will show some promise.<cite>Striikor@Nektulos wrote:</cite><blockquote>If this were a poker hand I was delt I would fold. Personally I am going to wait till release day to fold. There may be something in the works haha.</blockquote>They are too busy playing/working on BG's right now it seems. It's funny they keep pushing those when even by their own admission they can't get enough people to play to even test them properly.

Noob1974

02-14-2010, 06:43 AM

<cite>Neiloch@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>If they switch us to melee auto attack for a couple of months or more I'm quitting EQ2. Its just that simple. Only logic I can think of is they are assigning rangers the role of 'easy solo class' dismissing any balance they might need for groups or raids. So instead of assigning classes group/raid roles they are assigning them playstyle roles. It seems unlikely and is just a horrible idea but to me it follows what little information we have. If you want to kill solo content really fast you get your ranger, if you want to do high DPS in a group setting you get your Assassin. If you want to be really popular you get your bard or enchanter. If you want to solo some group stuff go get your summoner, Etc. This wouldn't surprise me considering how easy it is to have alts, and how other classes seem to be having the same problems. I can just imagine the devs in their office 'why are rangers so [Removed for Content] about being crap on raids when they can dominate solo content? shouldn't they be doing that all day?' Also like to note I am pro 'make us more range oriented' so its not needed we act like every other scout in the game to DPS properly. My personal dilemma is I just can't bring myself to play any other class, but every other MMO I have played with ranger archetypes does rangers better (seriously go play vanguard and copy those rangers exactly Eq2 devs). Unfortunately I have strong social ties here with both friends and family and I have finally gotten into a decent raiding guild and I can't bring myself to quit. Maybe FF14 will show some promise.<cite>Striikor@Nektulos wrote:</cite><blockquote>If this were a poker hand I was delt I would fold. Personally I am going to wait till release day to fold. There may be something in the works haha.</blockquote>They are too busy playing/working on BG's right now it seems. It's funny they keep pushing those when even by their own admission they can't get enough people to play to even test them properly.</blockquote> Neiloch i see were you are coming from. But even in the case they see us a solo class you would still have an even bigger unbalace towards summoner and illus wo can kill sh.t fast too and have equal dps and much more utility in raid.I have never been an advocate of nerfing other classes but it thats the case than nerf mages that they can raid but not soloing !!!!

Neiloch

02-14-2010, 06:52 AM

Its not that I think that's what their actually doing, but thats what it looks like. It's like seeing someone clearly destroying a car and you ask them what they are doing and they say they are trying to fix it. They are doing one thing but doing it so badly and unrelated to their supposed goal it looks like something else entirely. Are you building an airplane? No, I'm building an aquaduct.

Striikor

02-14-2010, 10:24 AM

OMG!!!! NO NERFS PLEASE! NOT FOR ANY CLASS!! WE ARE STILL DEALING WITH OURS. NEVER CALL FOR THAT!I think they read the forums. I think they know there is a problem. I also think that from thier point of view it is much less significant than we think it is. I also think they they probably believe that all the vitriol being posted is a small subset and does not reflect the Ranger community as a whole. After all there are what .... 10 or 12 of us posting. There are thousands of accounts with rangers rolled on them. It is still one of the more popular rolls. It is most certainly not a popular role.I simply don't know if they have the tools and data available to measure how many ranger toons are left that are actively played let alone who group and raid consistently. I spent 15 years as a director of technology and cannot tell you how many times I would work with programmers to fix something they did not think was a problem. The common answer was "Hey it works upstairs on the sample data".So I honestly do not think we are being ignored. I don't know that we are being listened to, which is a totally dfferent thing. I agree with a few that posted who think we do not need a lot of new things, what we need is old and outdated nerfs removed. We need equal value out of the predator tree. Opening vollley to make sense.But the big deal is that we are getting 10 or 12 who are trying hard to describe the damaged logic, bad grouping logic and mechanics that are creating havoc with our main role which is DPS. At least that was our role years ago. And 10 or 12 malcontents are not going to change anything when 10 or 12 is measured against thousands of Rangers who exist and are not complaining.They could simply look at the parsing posts on that other unamed site and see a picture of the DPS disparity. We know they go there.I think most Rangers who Raid or Group are very competitive people. I think that is why we choose Rangers to have a bar that we can easily measure and compete against. I am still usually in the top 5 at the end of a zone. But I rarely get the satisfaction of topping a particular fight. That takes much of the 'joy' out of it for me. When I top a parse now it is because I am working harder and spending more on temp adorns and food or it is someone elses mistake or death that lets me get there. I don't don't think that is going to happen much if at all anymore. I don't think I will be able to get into the top 8 once SF has been played for a while, say a month. Once the new items and AA's start to get used our current situation will be much worse.Thinking about it I can provide more than T2 DPS if I have a group with Illy, Dirge, Troub, Sk, Inquis. In fact I will make Wizzies, Locks and Sins work hard to stay ahead of me on the parse with that group. The problem is I never have that group. I take too many resources to justify the return on DPS. Every other class is more desirable in a raid or group setup. I have a mercy raid slot now and I don't know how long that will last. I think I still have a slot because dependable raiders are hard to find on my server. I know it is not because I provide awesome DPS or any utility.Bottom line is what I can do now is going to deminish in SF.

Noob1974

02-14-2010, 02:36 PM

@ StriikorI think you missunderstand me.I have never been an Advocate of nerf other classes. It was just a response to what Neiloch said.

Neiloch

02-14-2010, 02:38 PM

I've had parses that are quite good and signify to me what we SHOULD be doing. Which was giving wizards warlock and assassins a run for their money. Unfortunately I don't even post/brag about them because my groups were ridiculously stacked in my favor. I would have a setup similar to what striikor laid out with some variation, which is just ridiculous and such a waste of utility classes even if their making me look good. Can't bring myself to justify such a set up unless those classes were insanely high in population.DPS must be our role because its what we do best which is extremely frustrating because other classes that have more utility can do it better. I think the only reason I have been able to stay in raids this long without sitting is because I'm the resident 'raid fight mechanics go to guy.' Basically any fight that requires some special action like pulling adds or clicking random objects or even calling some of the important AoE's, but again I could do all this on another class np. So I can easily see if someone just wanted to be a player that knows how to DPS well on ranger, and not do any of this other stuff could be SoL when it comes to finding a raiding guild.To be clear no one here is demanding other classes be nerfed. We have enough problems already without other class communities thinking we want them nerfed for our benefit.On the plus side, they seem to always have one more push of fixes/changes on release day we don't see on beta. I'm not hoping for miracles but something significant, just hope their not fiddling with BG's this whole time.

Noob1974

02-14-2010, 04:40 PM

Stacked groups dont matter, everyone and their grandma can do good dps than. You see the difference when dds dont have stacked groups.

Neiloch

02-14-2010, 04:50 PM

Yeah that's what I'm saying. We aren't up to par imo until we are in a stacked group which is ridiculous. We have a problem of not being as self sufficient as other DPS classes which just leads us back to our CA's having too low of damage.

Stormhawk

02-15-2010, 01:20 AM

So, let me get this straight, you think we are going to be autoattack jousting? You are overcomplicating the issue here. Yes, there are problems with our autoattack but Rothgar/Xelgad have said we are getting Flurry / AoE autoattack so that goes a long way to solving that problem. The main thing we have to worry about there is how fast they are going to get to it. The other thing is restoring bow weapon damage back to what it what pre-"Arrow Fix" but that is curable through proper itemization. You aren't going to be jousting for Melee / Ranged AA, that is just silly. You are going to be standing at ~5m like you always have, using Ranged AA like you always have.Another thing to remember regarding autoattack is we have gone a full expansion without a weapon upgrade while our counterparts have seen considerable offhand upgrades as well as an imbalance regarding Crit Bonus. Assuming top end bows have a comparable DR to a pair of top end one handers, we will probably be fine. Yes, our bow damage got nerfed in RoK, that sucks and it created a larger itemization imbalance. The "Arrow Fix" was handle very poorly but we've known that for a long time.The stat consolidation solved a lot of itemization issues with rangers because we don't have ranger specific gear anymore. With the Flurry / AoE Autoattack fix, the itemization problem will be effectively gone *assuming* there are comparable weapon upgrades for us.I don't know what your confusion with procs is. "Combat attack" includes ranged attacks unless it is from a weapon. Weapon procs only come when their source weapon is used. Primary hand is used for Melee CAs and your bow is used for Ranged CAs. What is confusing about this? What is not fair about this? We still get all the armor-based procs regardless so who cares?Our CAs are a joke. This is mainly because the casting speeds are just too long for the damage. I suggest the following:- Flurry / AoE Autoattack ( Again, we know this is coming )- Remove the level restrictions on ammo, it is a bogus mechanic that creates more problems than it solves.- Reduce the casting speed on the following: Crippling Arrow, Miracle Shot, Rear Shot, Hidden Shot, Stream of Arrows, Arrow Barrage, Natural Selection- Increase the damage on the following: Ranger's Blade, Crippling Arrow, Miracle Shot, Trick Shot, Immobilizing Lunge- Reduced the reuse speed of the following: Triple Shot, Rear Shot ( Group them with Explosive Arrow ) - Move the +ranged component of Focus Aim to Nature's Focus, make it ranger only. - Remove the slashing/piercing penalty from Focus Aim.- Fix the Makeshift Arrow bug so it works like a Ranged CA instead of a spell.- Increase the Hit Bonus on Arrow Barrage ( I believe it was neglected from the Assassin SF end line as well )I'd like to make Miracle Shot a little more amazing as well. I don't know how many of yall are familiar with the Sorc AA called "Ambidexterous Casting". It is a CA that can be cast while another ability is casting. I'd say make Miracle Shot be insta-cast and allow it to be cast while casting another ranged CA.I cannot think of what to do with PFT right now. Yes, it favors assassins more but it is still nice.I'm also assuming their will be decent bow itemization, that is why I'm not asking for a sweeping change to bow damage ratings.

Seiffil

02-15-2010, 05:17 AM

<cite>Pesco@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>- Flurry / AoE Autoattack ( Again, we know this is coming )</blockquote>They said they were going to be looking into this, they didn't say whether we'd get one, both, or something else in the case that they decide they can't give them to rangers. Until we see a dev stating, that these will be given to rangers, we can't just assume we'll get them. They certainly never promised that we would get one or both of these abilities.

EQ2Magroo

02-15-2010, 08:17 AM

<cite>Striikor@Nektulos wrote:</cite><blockquote>...I simply don't know if they have the tools and data available to measure how many ranger toons are left that are actively played let alone who group and raid consistently....</blockquote>The good news about the level cap being raised is we will be able to see just how many active Rangers there are out there real soon.Give it a month and see how many lvl85+ Rangers there are on Eq2players...although in a month's time maybe it's too late as everyone (including the devs) would have moved on to the next disaster <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Noob1974

02-15-2010, 08:52 AM

No news on Beta.... before we could blame Mr A. now we can blame BG for needeind all the devs attention.....is always got to have a scapegoat isnt it.....makes you feel better...because you know you sacrificed DPS so that every other class can have BGs<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" />

suzita

02-15-2010, 09:04 AM

I rarely post on these boards but with the coming changes I feel that I have to stand up and agree that I am starting to be totally confused about the ranger's role. I don't understand why I will be able to cast AOEs and auto attack at point blank range, yet my ranged CAs will still require me to be 2 metres away. I don't want to be viewed only as a solo class, although I do solo, the greatest enjoyment I have in this game is grouping / casual raiding with my guild. I don't want to melee auto attack - in my opinion it is the bow that makes us unique in this game. Without the distinction of having superb bow skills (which translates as viable dps), I feel like we have nothing to offer that other scouts / mages can't do better.

kartikeya

02-15-2010, 04:40 PM

<cite>suzita wrote:</cite><blockquote>I rarely post on these boards but with the coming changes I feel that I have to stand up and agree that I am starting to be totally confused about the ranger's role. I don't understand why I will be able to cast AOEs and auto attack at point blank range, yet my ranged CAs will still require me to be 2 metres away. I don't want to be viewed only as a solo class, although I do solo, the greatest enjoyment I have in this game is grouping / casual raiding with my guild. I don't want to melee auto attack - in my opinion it is the bow that makes us unique in this game. Without the distinction of having superb bow skills (which translates as viable dps), I feel like we have nothing to offer that other scouts / mages can't do better.</blockquote>Oh, don't worry, you're getting the minimum range put back on ranged auto-attack as soon as you upgrade your mythical. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

glowsintheda

02-15-2010, 05:10 PM

Its sad that the decelopers don't realize that the no minimum range was probably the most desireable feature of the epic. I personally would really want to see that part incorporated into the buff, so that no matter what bow we use we wouldn't be lose DPS if the mob takes have a step towards us because our autoattack won't fire anymore

duddwin

02-16-2010, 08:03 AM

the chances of me seeing a ranger in a raid is about 3-5% for me (other than my self), and if there is its always in the least buffed raid group. I'm starting to give up on ranger moving on to wizzy but with my luck they'll probably get nerfed lol.DEV's FIX RANGER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! please <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Noob1974

02-16-2010, 08:37 AM

I have to admitt i had some hopes to hear something from devs or to get some changes or fixes before expansion goeslive, but nothing happened.......................

Striikor

02-16-2010, 10:59 AM

<cite>Pesco@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>So, let me get this straight, you think we are going to be autoattack jousting? You are overcomplicating the issue here. Yes, there are problems with our autoattack but Rothgar/Xelgad have said we are getting Flurry / AoE autoattack so that goes a long way to solving that problem. The main thing we have to worry about there is how fast they are going to get to it. The other thing is restoring bow weapon damage back to what it what pre-"Arrow Fix" but that is curable through proper itemization. You aren't going to be jousting for Melee / Ranged AA, that is just silly. You are going to be standing at ~5m like you always have, using Ranged AA like you always have.</blockquote>You would be right if you were accurately reporting that was said. You are not. What was said is they they would look into it. I think that is verbatium what was said about arrows. As I remember they have been looking into it for years. We have yet to get something that ovecomes the nerf.Everything they are doing points to a combination of melee and ranged with the melee overtaking ranged.There is no way to totally make up the difference but jousting should mitigate it somewhat. I figure with a conserted effort, lvl 90 should be reached in a week or two. You will have to pick up a new bow and CA Eagle's talon. At that point you will want to proc with melee AA and trigger off your melee CA's then jump out to trugger you ranged CA's and Ranged AA and then back in as the slow timers refresh. It is pretty evident that the damage and procs from dual wield melee will force you to do so.The 5m sweet spot worked only because we had bow damage significantly better than melee, that is no longer the case. I have tried it and and I actually get better DPS in beta using defensive stat for the bonus in agility to get optimum damage from melee I have 5 AA in it so I get no decrease in slashing or piercing. Offensive reduces our melee capability. I macroed my stances. Melee kicks off defensive stance and ranged kicks off offensive stance at .37 casting it can be done wilst jousting to position. Try some mobs yourself make sure to use lunging at the end of your melee run. But in a group or raid situation it will be a disaster as we will not be controlling the position of the mob. In group or raid defensive stance will most likely produce more dependable DPS.Or you can take yet another step back and forgo the proc associated with melee losing more relative DPS and run it that way you always have. Don't forget that with Dual Wield Melee and procs you are going to outparse your Ranged AA. And thinking that it will be fixed in a way that is obviously beneficial is highly unlikely. Thinking it is going to happen soon with them totally absorbed with the new release, trying to get Halas out and tweak BG is just unreasonable. I am hoping still to see something today. If not I can tell you I am not very interested in waiting around for them to "look into it". I have been waiting for them to look into it since EoF. Somethings I have waited on since DoF.

Striikor

02-16-2010, 11:49 AM

<cite>Pesco@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>Our CAs are a joke. This is mainly because the casting speeds are just too long for the damage. I suggest the following:- Flurry / AoE Autoattack ( Again, we know this is coming )- Remove the level restrictions on ammo, it is a bogus mechanic that creates more problems than it solves.- Reduce the casting speed on the following: Crippling Arrow, Miracle Shot, Rear Shot, Hidden Shot, Stream of Arrows, Arrow Barrage, Natural Selection- Increase the damage on the following: Ranger's Blade, Crippling Arrow, Miracle Shot, Trick Shot, Immobilizing Lunge- Reduced the reuse speed of the following: Triple Shot, Rear Shot ( Group them with Explosive Arrow )- Move the +ranged component of Focus Aim to Nature's Focus, make it ranger only.- Remove the slashing/piercing penalty from Focus Aim.- Fix the Makeshift Arrow bug so it works like a Ranged CA instead of a spell.- Increase the Hit Bonus on Arrow Barrage ( I believe it was neglected from the Assassin SF end line as well )I'd like to make Miracle Shot a little more amazing as well. I don't know how many of yall are familiar with the Sorc AA called "Ambidexterous Casting". It is a CA that can be cast while another ability is casting. I'd say make Miracle Shot be insta-cast and allow it to be cast while casting another ranged CA.I cannot think of what to do with PFT right now. Yes, it favors assassins more but it is still nice.I'm also assuming their will be decent bow itemization, that is why I'm not asking for a sweeping change to bow damage ratings.</blockquote>On your other points I agree but how long do you think we will wait for that to happen. The point is that our role is/was/has been eroded. IMHO SF makes it worse than it was and from my point of view it was already bad. As a result of SF 'improvements' we are futher behind. And this happened while we were hoping to be caught up.I do sincerley hope that you are right. I hope I get 'SHOCKED' today. But I am not too anxious to wait around for them to close a gap they have widened. Particularly looking at the time it takes then to do that historically. I suspect I am going to get a significant part of my RL time back.