BOYCOTT BATTLEGROUNDS

[Nemas Ravenor]

<p>I have been reading a lot of complaints from people here who are incredibly worried about what will happen to Open World PVP because of the launch of these Battlegrounds. </p><p>For me the only way to get let Sony really know how you feel is to never, ever log in to the Battleground servers.  Stay on Nagafen or Vox and PVP in the Open World and continue to tell Sony that you will never play in the Battlegrounds.  Gear fixes, Toughness etc, are seperate issues, but right now, if you wish that Open World PVP would not go away, all I can suggest is that you never go to the Battlegrounds.</p><p>I'm voting with my absence from the BGs and the more people who do the same the faster Sony will pay attention to fixing Open World PVP.</p>

[BMonkeeus]

Power to da People

[Armironhead]

<p>+1 <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>BTW i tried the bgs - I was in fully pvp gear and I was being one shotted by pve'ers because my crit mit was disabled it seems.  I had no survivability.  I dont see how its fair that the pve'ers get to use their gear but our gear has been gimped.</p>

[Edavi]

<p>Look around you there IS NO open world PVP, If there was a viable PVP option other than the KP zerg this might warrent some attention, but I dont know exactly what youre trying to save.</p>

[Kurindor_Mythecnea]

<p><cite>Olihin wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Seliri@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p> <blockquote><p><cite>Nemas Ravenor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I have one suggestion for everyone who says they care about Open World PVP:  BOYCOTT BATTLEGROUNDS.</p><p>If you don't play there then Sony will have a referendum on their choice.  One player, one Vote. </p><p>BOYCOTT BATTLEGROUNDS and stay on your PVP server to focus on Open World PVP.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Battlegrounds won't be boycotted. They're simply going to be the faster way to gear out, more often than not.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">World PvP might suffer some, but I don't think it'll be too bad given the rush of content at release.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Though, any detraction from open world PvP could've been mitigated by simply giving unique/exclusive mounts, ranged, secondary, neck, waist, finger,ear, wrist, cloak, and charm slots only available to open world PvP, and different unique/exclusive mounts, charm, finger, wrist, ear only available to battlegrounds PvP.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;"><em><span style="font-size: xx-small;">* E D I T: Removed redundant mention of "wrist" for exclusive, battlegrounds only rewards *</span></em></span></p></blockquote> <p>I added two mounts and a few cloaks that you can only get in PVP on the vendor.  You should see them on the next update. </p></blockquote>

[Armironhead]

<p><cite>Edavi wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Look around you there IS NO open world PVP, If there was a viable PVP option other than the KP zerg this might warrent some attention, but I dont know exactly what youre trying to save.</p></blockquote><p>so i guess if you were the doctor you would shoot the paitent rather then find a cure?  there are simple reasons for the kp Zerg -- the lack of overland herioc content, the ease of travel, too many instances.  These can be overcome.  Disable the guild flags, give loot tables to the guards in fp and q cities.  There is no need to give up on open world pvp, soe just needs to have the will to offer some simple fixes.</p><p>fortunately i think the bgs are going to fail because they are poorly conceived.  The random match maker results in highly imbalanced fights and there is a clear competitive disadvantage to being a player from a pvp server.  Thus maybe the bgs will fail on their own.</p>

[Edavi]

<p><cite>Armironhead@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Edavi wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Look around you there IS NO open world PVP, If there was a viable PVP option other than the KP zerg this might warrent some attention, but I dont know exactly what youre trying to save.</p></blockquote><p>so i guess if you were the doctor you would shoot the paitent rather then find a cure?  there are simple reasons for the kp Zerg -- the lack of overland herioc content, the ease of travel, too many instances.  These can be overcome.  Disable the guild flags, give loot tables to the guards in fp and q cities.  There is no need to give up on open world pvp, soe just needs to have the will to offer some simple fixes.</p></blockquote><p>No... I would find a cure.... do you think boycotting something thats not in game yet is going to be the CURE for the current situation in game?  Right, because that doesnt make any sense...</p><p>You will not succesfully boycott Battleground, they are going to be fun, even, FAIR (which rarely happens in open world) 6v6 fights, people will enjoy the challenge, rather than they flying around on sokokors and cloud platforms chasing solos who are questing.</p>

[Nemas Ravenor]

<p>What we are trying to save are servers that can maintain their population.  If you are in the Battlegrounds then you are not playing on your server and there isn't anyone around to kill.  So, if you want there to save even a semblance of what we had Pre-Zerg then Boycott the Battlegrounds so that there are people left to fight in overland zones.</p><p>Otherwise, go watch that show on the History Channel called "Life After People" where they show you what happens to everything man created once there is no more man around.  That is what will happen to Nagafen and Vox.  Two months after launch even the slow pokes will be level 90 and the PVP that will surround leveling will dry up.  If everyone who sits in the Zerg decides that now they want to be in the Battlegrounds then you will find servers almost completely devoid of players. </p><p>So, if you care about seeing actual Qs or Freeps around for you to kill then Boycott Battlegrounds and the Zerg.</p>

[Rothgar]

<p><cite>Armironhead@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>+1 <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p><p>BTW i tried the bgs - I was in fully pvp gear and I was being one shotted by pve'ers because my crit mit was disabled it seems.  I had no survivability.  I dont see how its fair that the pve'ers get to use their gear but our gear has been gimped.</p></blockquote><p>We do not favor PvE gear over PvP gear in battlegrounds.  In battlegrounds, toughness is responsible for mitigating critical damage, not Crit Mit.</p><p>Crit Mit is something that only appears in significant quantities on top-end raid gear and we had no desire to have battleground matches be dominated by raiders due to gear differences.  Higher end PvE gear will be somewhat better than lower end PvE gear, but Battleground's specific gear will still be superior to both.</p><p>Battlegrounds is meant to be a completely different playstyle.  It's not meant to replace open-world PvP.  If you don't care to play it, no one is forcing you to change your playstyle.</p><p>As far as making BG matches fair, we will continue to work on problem areas.  Until then, you always have the option to form up and queue as a group.  Strategy and communication will always be your biggest asset in a BG match.</p>

[Nemas Ravenor]

<p><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Armironhead@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>+1 <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p><p>BTW i tried the bgs - I was in fully pvp gear and I was being one shotted by pve'ers because my crit mit was disabled it seems.  I had no survivability.  I dont see how its fair that the pve'ers get to use their gear but our gear has been gimped.</p></blockquote><p>We do not favor PvE gear over PvP gear in battlegrounds.  In battlegrounds, toughness is responsible for mitigating critical damage, not Crit Mit.</p><p>Crit Mit is something that only appears in significant quantities on top-end raid gear and we had no desire to have battleground matches be dominated by raiders due to gear differences.  Higher end PvE gear will be somewhat better than lower end PvE gear, but Battleground's specific gear will still be superior to both.</p><p>Battlegrounds is meant to be a completely different playstyle.  It's not meant to replace open-world PvP.  If you don't care to play it, no one is forcing you to change your playstyle.</p><p>As far as making BG matches fair, we will continue to work on problem areas.  Until then, you always have the option to form up and queue as a group.  Strategy and communication will always be your biggest asset in a BG match.</p></blockquote><p>I totally agree that Battlegrounds, in their spirit, are being introduced to allow for a different style of play.  And of course no one is being forced to go there but, as you can read throughout these boards, there is a large portion of the population that is very worried that the PVP players from Nagafen and Vox will spend all of their time at the Battlegrounds and therefore our servers will be generally empty.</p><p>This thread is meant to rally the people who feel that having a high population server, with enough players of all factions around to fight against is an integral part of the game.   The greatest unintended effect of the BGs is most likely going to be empty PVP servers. </p><p>So again, for the population, if you care about Open World PVP then do not go to the Battlegrounds.  Stay away from the zerg and head out there to fight in the Open zones.</p>

[Eriis]

<p><cite>Nemas Ravenor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I have been reading a lot of complaints from people here who are incredibly worried about what will happen to Open World PVP because of the launch of these Battlegrounds. </p><p>For me the only way to get let Sony really know how you feel is to never, ever log in to the Battleground servers.  Stay on Nagafen or Vox and PVP in the Open World and continue to tell Sony that you will never play in the Battlegrounds.  Gear fixes, Toughness etc, are seperate issues, but right now, if you wish that Open World PVP would not go away, all I can suggest is that you never go to the Battlegrounds.</p><p>I'm voting with my absence from the BGs and the more people who do the same the faster Sony will pay attention to fixing Open World PVP.</p></blockquote><p>This update wasn't just for PVPers, it was for PVEers also.</p><p>Can you play CTF in KP? Can you play DTR in Kunzar? No.</p><p>BG's aren't "PvP", yes they involve the killing of other players, but that is not the main objective of the BG Orientated games, stop being so selfish, if you don't like battlegrounds, don't play them? No one's really going to care.</p><p>Edit: Forgot to mention, if you REALLY think Battlegrounds are going to take over open-world PVP, you're dumb.</p><p>Think about it, what can you do in the open world, that you CAN'T do in Battlegrounds.. Level. So where are people going to be?</p><blockquote><p><span ><cite>Edavi wrote:</cite></span></p><p>You will not succesfully boycott Battleground, they are going to be fun, even, FAIR (which rarely happens in open world) 6v6 fights, people will enjoy the challenge, rather than they flying around on sokokors and cloud platforms chasing solos who are questing.</p></blockquote><p>+1</p>

[Armironhead]

<p><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Armironhead@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>+1 <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p><p>BTW i tried the bgs - I was in fully pvp gear and I was being one shotted by pve'ers because my crit mit was disabled it seems.  I had no survivability.  I dont see how its fair that the pve'ers get to use their gear but our gear has been gimped.</p></blockquote><p>We do not favor PvE gear over PvP gear in battlegrounds.  In battlegrounds, toughness is responsible for mitigating critical damage, not Crit Mit.</p><p>Crit Mit is something that only appears in significant quantities on top-end raid gear and we had no desire to have battleground matches be dominated by raiders due to gear differences.  Higher end PvE gear will be somewhat better than lower end PvE gear, but Battleground's specific gear will still be superior to both.</p><p>Battlegrounds is meant to be a completely different playstyle.  It's not meant to replace open-world PvP.  If you don't care to play it, no one is forcing you to change your playstyle.</p><p>As far as making BG matches fair, we will continue to work on problem areas.  Until then, you always have the option to form up and queue as a group.  Strategy and communication will always be your biggest asset in a BG match.</p></blockquote><p>um, the problem right now is that many pvp'ers depend on crit mit for survivability - our gear made use able to compete with the raiders.   Now a significant portion of our gear is not working.  Sure in time we can replace that with toughness, but when the expansion goes live the raiders will have a significant unfair advantage.</p><p>As for the matches -- a blind match maker is inherently unfair.  Lets say I decide to go in with a premade with two healers a tank a mezer and some random dps, and we get matched against some pug grp, whats going to happen -- its going to be a slaughter - the pug players will log looking for someone more evenly matched.  As for the premade, they are going to face the problem of people not completeing their matches repeatedly.  In sum it is  no fun for anyone in these types of preset games.  The players need some way of controlling who they play through a ranking system. Of course if the devs actually were gamers you would know this, but you guys seem to come from the school of if its in wow and we can give the appearance of ripping it off and slapping it on here in some halfarse way we've done our job.</p>

[Destriel]

<p><cite>Armironhead@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>um, the problem right now is that many pvp'ers depend on crit mit for survivability - our gear made use able to compete with the raiders.   Now a significant portion of our gear is not working.  Sure in time we can replace that with toughness, but when the expansion goes live the raiders will have a significant unfair advantage.</p><p>As for the matches -- a blind match maker is inherently unfair.  Lets say I decide to go in with a premade with two healers a tank a mezer and some random dps, and we get matched against some pug grp, whats going to happen -- its going to be a slaughter - the pug players will log looking for someone more evenly matched.  As for the premade, they are going to face the problem of people not completeing their matches repeatedly.  In sum it is  no fun for anyone in these types of preset games.  The players need some way of controlling who they play through a ranking system. Of course if the devs actually were gamers you would know this, but you guys seem to come from the school of if its in wow and we can give the appearance of ripping it off and slapping it on here in some halfarse way we've done our job.</p></blockquote><p>you get toughness on your pvp gear, even the tso stuff.  so what portion of your gear isnt working?  the only thing you lose is something thats now intended for pve only...</p><p>you COULD whine about something you havent even played yet, or you COULD be quiet and see how it pans out.  there are lots of other games with this type system in place and ya, sometimes it sucks when you get stuck with a crappy pug but a lot of the time the other group is a crappy pug too.  and sometimes you roll a premade while you're in a crappy pug...</p><p>i cant believe the whining about battlegrounds...  boycott something we havent even played on live yet? shut up...</p>

[Armironhead]

<p><cite>Edavi wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Armironhead@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Edavi wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Look around you there IS NO open world PVP, If there was a viable PVP option other than the KP zerg this might warrent some attention, but I dont know exactly what youre trying to save.</p></blockquote><p>so i guess if you were the doctor you would shoot the paitent rather then find a cure?  there are simple reasons for the kp Zerg -- the lack of overland herioc content, the ease of travel, too many instances.  These can be overcome.  Disable the guild flags, give loot tables to the guards in fp and q cities.  There is no need to give up on open world pvp, soe just needs to have the will to offer some simple fixes.</p></blockquote><p>No... I would find a cure.... do you think boycotting something thats not in game yet is going to be the CURE for the current situation in game?  Right, because that doesnt make any sense...</p><p>You will not succesfully boycott Battleground, they are going to be fun, even, FAIR (which rarely happens in open world) 6v6 fights, people will enjoy the challenge, rather than they flying around on sokokors and cloud platforms chasing solos who are questing.</p></blockquote><p>If you think that the bgs promote fair play then you havent played them.  Imo its worse then anything in open world -- why? because in open world you usually have the choice of who you are going to engage.  If you dont like the odds you can run.  If you are in a bg - all choices are turned over to the match maker - so imbalanced fights are not only possible they are likely -- premades vs pugs; differences in gear, and skill, etc. . .  You think its bad when people start running in the middle of a fight in open world, just wait until they log 5 or 10 min into a fight that is going against then on the bgs.  Frustration is going to be a common factor given the current broken system.</p>

[Armironhead]

<p><cite>Destriel wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Armironhead@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>um, the problem right now is that many pvp'ers depend on crit mit for survivability - our gear made use able to compete with the raiders.   Now a significant portion of our gear is not working.  Sure in time we can replace that with toughness, but when the expansion goes live the raiders will have a significant unfair advantage.</p><p>As for the matches -- a blind match maker is inherently unfair.  Lets say I decide to go in with a premade with two healers a tank a mezer and some random dps, and we get matched against some pug grp, whats going to happen -- its going to be a slaughter - the pug players will log looking for someone more evenly matched.  As for the premade, they are going to face the problem of people not completeing their matches repeatedly.  In sum it is  no fun for anyone in these types of preset games.  The players need some way of controlling who they play through a ranking system. Of course if the devs actually were gamers you would know this, but you guys seem to come from the school of if its in wow and we can give the appearance of ripping it off and slapping it on here in some halfarse way we've done our job.</p></blockquote><p>you get toughness on your pvp gear, even the tso stuff.  so what portion of your gear isnt working?  the only thing you lose is something thats now intended for pve only...</p><p>you COULD whine about something you havent even played yet, or you COULD be quiet and see how it pans out.  there are lots of other games with this type system in place and ya, sometimes it sucks when you get stuck with a crappy pug but a lot of the time the other group is a crappy pug too.  and sometimes you roll a premade while you're in a crappy pug...</p><p>i cant believe the whining about battlegrounds...  boycott something we havent even played on live yet? shut up...</p></blockquote><p>actually i have played it so maybe u should stfuand talk about something you know troll?  As for toughness if its actually on my gear -- i couldnt tell as every hit against me seemed to crit.  Normally I have a measure of surviability -- maybe the random double ice comet will kill me quick, but thats rare.  In the bgs, I've found that i'm dead within a second or two of jumping off the ledge.  If you dont think thats a problem its because you havent tried it.  After you have, come back and we can have an actual  discussion.</p>

[Nemas Ravenor]

<p><cite>Eriis@Splitpaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Nemas Ravenor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I have been reading a lot of complaints from people here who are incredibly worried about what will happen to Open World PVP because of the launch of these Battlegrounds. </p><p>For me the only way to get let Sony really know how you feel is to never, ever log in to the Battleground servers.  Stay on Nagafen or Vox and PVP in the Open World and continue to tell Sony that you will never play in the Battlegrounds.  Gear fixes, Toughness etc, are seperate issues, but right now, if you wish that Open World PVP would not go away, all I can suggest is that you never go to the Battlegrounds.</p><p>I'm voting with my absence from the BGs and the more people who do the same the faster Sony will pay attention to fixing Open World PVP.</p></blockquote><p>This update wasn't just for PVPers, it was for PVEers also.</p><p>Can you play CTF in KP? Can you play DTR in Kunzar? No.</p><p>BG's aren't "PvP", yes they involve the killing of other players, but that is not the main objective of the BG Orientated games, stop being so selfish, if you don't like battlegrounds, don't play them? No one's really going to care.</p><p>Edit: Forgot to mention, if you REALLY think Battlegrounds are going to take over open-world PVP, you're dumb.</p><p>Think about it, what can you do in the open world, that you CAN'T do in Battlegrounds.. Level. So where are people going to be?</p><blockquote><p><span><cite>Edavi wrote:</cite></span></p><p>You will not succesfully boycott Battleground, they are going to be fun, even, FAIR (which rarely happens in open world) 6v6 fights, people will enjoy the challenge, rather than they flying around on sokokors and cloud platforms chasing solos who are questing.</p></blockquote><p>+1</p></blockquote><p>All leveling of mains will be done within two months at the most.  Anyone that takes longer isn't really logging in all that much.  It's only 10 levels, that doesn't take all that long.  And once everyone is 90 they'll start to gear up, raid etc.  And one of the things that I a lot of people love about the way PVP used to be was that you could stumble upon a fight at any given time, anywhere in the world.</p><p>But if the people on PvP servers are all on the Battlegrounds then there won't be anyone actually on the PvP servers.  This kind of thing doesn't really bother the PvE people because it's a big kumbahya love fest over there anyway, with Qs and Freeps grouping togehter, being in each other's guilds, dogs and cats sleeping together, fire/brimstone... real wrath of god type stuff.  But on PvE servers all you need to do is find enough people to go run an instance.  On PvP you desperately need the populatoin to actually be there in order to kill them.</p><p>But you are right about one thing:  BGs were made for the PvE players.  But I think their unintended consequence is going to be empty PvP servers. </p><p>So I'll say again, that this post is to help raise awarenes for all of the PvP players who want real Open World PvP that if they play in the Battlegrounds they will be killing the Open World PvP they love.</p><p>And "stay out of the zerg".</p>

[Destriel]

<p><cite>Armironhead@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>actually i have played it so maybe u should stfuand talk about something you know troll?  As for toughness if its actually on my gear -- i couldnt tell as every hit against me seemed to crit.  Normally I have a measure of surviability -- maybe the random double ice comet will kill me quick, but thats rare.  In the bgs, I've found that i'm dead within a second or two of jumping off the ledge.  If you dont think thats a problem its because you havent tried it.  After you have, come back and we can have an actual  discussion.</p></blockquote><p>yar, you played it on live with all the queing and pug forming cross server as intended?  lend me your time machine pls, i have some ideas for it...</p>

[Armironhead]

<p><cite>Destriel wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Armironhead@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>actually i have played it so maybe u should stfuand talk about something you know troll?  As for toughness if its actually on my gear -- i couldnt tell as every hit against me seemed to crit.  Normally I have a measure of surviability -- maybe the random double ice comet will kill me quick, but thats rare.  In the bgs, I've found that i'm dead within a second or two of jumping off the ledge.  If you dont think thats a problem its because you havent tried it.  After you have, come back and we can have an actual  discussion.</p></blockquote><p>yar, you played it on live with all the queing and pug forming cross server as intended?  lend me your time machine pls, i have some ideas for it...</p></blockquote><p>no i've played it on test copy, which you obviously havent -- do you think its going to get better when it goes live?  If you do I got a bridge I could sell you...  On live its going to be pugs vs premades, there is going to be a tremendous differences in skill levels and gear - its going to be some of the most unfair pvp that we have yet seen in eq2.</p>

[Shareana]

<p>Keep on topic please <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Destriel]

<p><cite>Shareana wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Keep on topic please <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>sure.</p><p>boycotting battlegrounds is stupid and wont change anything.  nuff said.</p>

[Edavi]

<p><cite>Destriel wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Shareana wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Keep on topic please <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>sure.</p><p>boycotting battlegrounds is stupid and wont change anything.  nuff said.</p></blockquote><p>Agreed</p>

[ntommyb]

<p>The matchmaking is messed up, I suggested that any 6 v 6 battleground be self queue only and at least one bg should be x2 vs x2 but no raid queueing.  I think its simple, you're going to get blowouts in 6 v 6 but you'll be on both ends of it.  </p><p>The locks and wizards do seem to be hitting really hard when they're coupled with dispatch or debuffs its impossible to mitigate, that needs to be looked at imo</p>

[MurFalad]

<p>My understanding is that toughness provides crit mit and also reduces normal damage you take, so in this case it works like Armour/resistances and is equivalent to a point, but only works against players.</p><p><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Crit Mit is something that only appears in significant quantities on top-end raid gear and we had no desire to have battleground matches be dominated by raiders due to gear differences.  Higher end PvE gear will be somewhat better than lower end PvE gear, but Battleground's specific gear will still be superior to both.</p></blockquote><p>I have a question regarding Toughness and Battleground PVP gear, is toughness as a stat added to gear instead of PVE mitigation stats (armour, resistances, crit mit) or in addition to PVE mitigation stats in terms of stat "cost"?</p><p>In other words could a level 80 legendary PVP BG cloak have all the same stats as a level 80 legendary PVE cloak, but also additional toughness?</p><p>I'm just interested to know if PVP gear is intended to be the best you can get only when used in battlegrounds (as it is the only gear with a form of crit mit that works), or also equally as good as equivalent PVE gear when outside of BG's (just without any chance of getting crit mit)?</p>

[KrickZan]

<p>Gear obtained from battlegrounds shouldnt affect open world skirmishes.</p>

[TheVekk]

<p><cite>Nemas Ravenor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I have been reading a lot of complaints from people here who are incredibly worried about what will happen to Open World PVP because of the launch of these Battlegrounds. </p><p>For me the only way to get let Sony really know how you feel is to never, ever log in to the Battleground servers.  Stay on Nagafen or Vox and PVP in the Open World and continue to tell Sony that you will never play in the Battlegrounds.  Gear fixes, Toughness etc, are seperate issues, but right now, if you wish that Open World PVP would not go away, all I can suggest is that you never go to the Battlegrounds.</p><p>I'm voting with my absence from the BGs and the more people who do the same the faster Sony will pay attention to fixing Open World PVP.</p></blockquote><p>By open world pvp i assume u mean the endless Zerg in kp, which just makes the BG's look even better and better. open world pvp is dead....if u havnt noticed...</p>

[MaCloud1032]

I gotta agree unless your in kp there is no open world pvp I can quest all day in the moores and see 5 Q's. Go to JW see 5 more. Zone into KP see a x3.

[Armironhead]

<p><cite>Darksavanna@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>I gotta agree unless your in kp there is no open world pvp I can quest all day in the moores and see 5 Q's. Go to JW see 5 more. Zone into KP see a x3.</blockquote><p>thats because soe screwed up the design of tso and rok.  At this point in the game, where many if not most folk are maxed what point is there for anyone to be in jw, fens, kj or moors?  I dont quest anymore or do any instances runs as I dont need the gear, exp, or aa.  As for masters, I get the ones I need from the ra.  Instant travel by flag and port has also made it so that you cant attack people heading to zones.  There is nothing wrong with open world pvp that couldnt be <em>easily</em> fixed if soe had the will to do so.  Disable guild flags (or at least make them attackable with a cool down if they are successful attacked), add herioc content with loot tables (perferably pvp gear) to encourage farmers so that pvpers can hunt the farmers, disable the ra so that farmers for masters can have an occupation again which will allow pvpers to hunt the farmers.  Now if soe really wanted to show love to the pvp servers it would disable access to instances and as compensation give us contested mobs heroic and epic, but of course thats just a dream.</p><p>EDIT:</p><p>BTW soe has posted a bg survey in the "in testing fourm" -- hop on over and tell them what you really think.  Stick it to the man.</p>

[Silverzx]

<p>even kp zerg fest is more "open" pvp then battlegrounds will ever be.</p><p>nuff said</p>

[Notsovilepriest]

<p><cite>Silverzx wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>even kp zerg fest is more "open" pvp then battlegrounds will ever be.</p><p>nuff said</p></blockquote><p>Rather play battlegrounds then zerg, Zerg is not fun to me, I have done it with alts because of gear you obtain, but by no means is it fun. At least in battlegrounds you are far more likely of getting a good fight.</p>

[convict]

<p>I'm curious if these BG's are going to be like swg bg's, and really busy for a week, and then you sit in que for over an hour waiting for a match..</p>

[Tormax]

<p><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Armironhead@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>+1 <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p><p>BTW i tried the bgs - I was in fully pvp gear and I was being one shotted by pve'ers because my crit mit was disabled it seems.  I had no survivability.  I dont see how its fair that the pve'ers get to use their gear but our gear has been gimped.</p></blockquote><p>We do not favor PvE gear over PvP gear in battlegrounds.  In battlegrounds, toughness is responsible for mitigating critical damage, not Crit Mit.</p><p>Crit Mit is something that only appears in significant quantities on top-end raid gear and we had no desire to have battleground matches be dominated by raiders due to gear differences.  Higher end PvE gear will be somewhat better than lower end PvE gear, but Battleground's specific gear will still be superior to both.</p><p>Battlegrounds is meant to be a completely different playstyle.  It's not meant to replace open-world PvP.  If you don't care to play it, no one is forcing you to change your playstyle.</p><p>As far as making BG matches fair, we will continue to work on problem areas.  Until then, you always have the option to form up and queue as a group.  Strategy and communication will always be your biggest asset in a BG match.</p></blockquote><p>What they are trying to say is they will refuse to defend themselves in the open world? Freeps have been refusing to defend themselves in open world for as long as freeps have sucked at pvp. hehe. One thing this game has, that I find nowhere else, a deep rooted hatred for the other factions. Listen to what is being said aroudnd you in your group when your out in the open world trying to find a freep that can actually offer a good fight. I hope they never let us talk to other factions on the PvP server. For where freeps lack at skill they sure make up in whining.</p><p>TSO instances already hit the open world population, same with guild halls, city immunity, now I am not saying get rid of TSO instances, they happen to be hot cribs for 6v6 pvp, <span style="text-decoration: underline;">you want to find a good fight get out of KP and camp a shard giver.</span> yet spilling blood in freeport is something I always wanted, that and spilling some of my own fluids on the statues of Lucan (if you know what I mean.)</p>

[dispraekailo]

<p><cite>KrickZan wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Gear obtained from battlegrounds shouldnt affect open world skirmishes.</p></blockquote><p>this.</p><p>Make it (pve + pvp) with battlegrounds, not pve with (battlegrounds and pvp)</p>

[Brynhild]

<p>Try joining battlegrounds , and fighting a group with 3 warlocks in it.</p><p>You spawn, your entire group dies in 1 second. Spawn, entire group dies in 1 second, over and over and over because they can camp the spawn point, and absolution crits for almost 10k if it's a good warlock, having 3 of them with buff classes there's absoutely nothing you can do.   Right now in real world pvp you might see absolution for 3k , maybe a little more if they use temps /ring/etc.   Melee classes seem to hit pitifully low.  You realize the new gear has NO MITIGATION of MAGIC damage, but it still has THE SAME PHYSICAL mitigation as raid gear?    So at level 90 with  full PVP set on you get 1500 to all your magic mitigation but still same physical..  it seems to take an ENTIRE set of PVP gear to even get close to the 40% toughness cap, and i'm not talking about armor.. jewelry has toughness, weapons, shields, everything has to be pvp.  And yet again it has no resists, you get a couple pieces of jewelry with 1400 to all mit , and a proc that if you take damage it has like 6% chance to increase your magic mit 3500 or whatever.. Lot of good that does when you get 1 shot. Do the procs stack? Can you use all 2 or 3 of the jewelry pieces and get a 18% chance to proc, and then the mitigation stacks? even so your mit won't be high on the first shot which is usually the one that matters.</p><p>Round up a whole bunch of the devs, give them  the level 84 MC gear and let them go in the battlegrounds and see what happens.  Oh, and PLEASE  make a video of it so we can see it. That would be priceless.</p>

[xochipi]

<p>cryin babies, ur pressence rots that world....</p>

[dispraekailo]

<p><cite>Brynhild wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Try joining battlegrounds , and fighting a group with 3 warlocks in it.</p><p>You spawn, your entire group dies in 1 second. Spawn, entire group dies in 1 second, over and over and over because they can camp the spawn point, and absolution crits for almost 10k if it's a good warlock, having 3 of them with buff classes there's absoutely nothing you can do. Right now in real world pvp you might see absolution for 3k , maybe a little more if they use temps /ring/etc. Melee classes seem to hit pitifully low. You realize the new gear has NO MITIGATION of MAGIC damage, but it still has THE SAME PHYSICAL mitigation as raid gear? So at level 90 with full PVP set on you get 1500 to all your magic mitigation but still same physical.. it seems to take an ENTIRE set of PVP gear to even get close to the 40% toughness cap, and i'm not talking about armor.. jewelry has toughness, weapons, shields, everything has to be pvp. And yet again it has no resists, you get a couple pieces of jewelry with 1400 to all mit , and a proc that if you take damage it has like 6% chance to increase your magic mit 3500 or whatever.. Lot of good that does when you get 1 shot. Do the procs stack? Can you use all 2 or 3 of the jewelry pieces and get a 18% chance to proc, and then the mitigation stacks? even so your mit won't be high on the first shot which is usually the one that matters.</p><p>Round up a whole bunch of the devs, give them the level 84 MC gear and let them go in the battlegrounds and see what happens. Oh, and PLEASE make a video of it so we can see it. That would be priceless.</p></blockquote><p>Even if toughness did work, 60% of the time it would be less effective than crit mit with a full set of toughness gear.  And that doesn't even count all of the new crit bonus gear... Way to make combat more about random chance (hoping the toughness doesn't absorb that crit) than good gear and skills.</p>

[MurFalad]

<p><cite>dispraekailo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Make it (pve + pvp) with battlegrounds, not pve with (battlegrounds and pvp)</p></blockquote><p>Yes please, PVP with PVE means there's an added storyline and that makes things much more fun and adds a new layer of tactics.</p><p>Right now the battlegrounds out there are the basic types - capture the flag, hold the flag and king of the hill, they should be there but I hope we get more in time.</p><p>Put in two PVE factions and fight between them, give it a storyline to explain what is happening and leave the players up to figure out how to use the NPC's to their best advantage (thinking here of times when you might be along in that area of a map with a group of 6 NPC's guarding a tower, depending on your class you can cooperate with those NPCs in several ways ("tanking" the enemy/kiting the enemy while ranged NPC's take them out, rooting attackers, using the NPC's as tanks, healing/buffing the NPCs etc.</p><p>While you can do all of that with player characters the NPC's have an advantage of being willing to do the sometimes boring parts of a BG like guarding out of the way objectives that most players won't find enjoyable.</p>

[skidmark]

<p>Death comes way too quickly in the Battlegrounds. It almost reminds me of being level 14 in full MC, with experts and seeing someone ding from 9 to 10 in Antonica with his newbie gear on. Two hits, dead, maybe one.</p><p>The gears map is lopsided almost everytime I have played it, one team keeps the other up on their ledge, picking them off rather quickly.</p><p>The ganak capture the flag is fun, but like someone said, with three warlocks in the opposing group, total group wipe comes pretty quickly.</p><p>Only did Smuggler's Den once, way too much lag, and spawn locations are too close to the objectives.</p>

[VerdicAysen]

<p>Until PVP is done correctly I won't be participating in any form.</p>

[slothmister]

<p>I find it hilarious that the majority of people that are complaining about BG's are the same people who participate in SS/KP zerg fests.</p><p>Do you people not realise that BG's will give these idiotic zerg people somewhere to go and actually apply some kind of strategy to win something.</p>

[Cynicisim]

<p>I lack any interst in BGs but I also lack interest in the KP zergfest. This leave little options but to go thoughout the zones looking for questers (which I do not like to do) or trying to find a pvp'er not in the zergfefst.</p><p>I think BGs are more for blubie servers who want the vacation pvp rather than the real thing (not that we can find any of the "real" thing anymore). Perhaps it will spark an interest in more moving to a pvp server.</p><p>Personally, I think lvls are destroying pvp. Being "locked" at 80 or 90 creates the zergfest. {I hit 90, max AA's, and except for an instance or two during downtime pvp hrs, what else is there for me but obtain pvp gear from the zergffest?} I have always been and am against locking but I must admit I broke down and pvp with my lowbie and find it amazingly fun. Anyone will see this when the xpac starts and pvp will be fun again for a few months before we are locked again at 90. Lvls are in the game to stay but I wish they would make it take a year at least to get to 90 rather than a week. I know that will not sit well with the narzasits (sp) but working from now till the next min xpac would keep more in the game and keep pvp real then what we normally get.</p><p>BGs will not fix pvp on naggy nor IMO will it kill pvp on naggy, but it will lend some interest to the blubies.</p><p>Of course, I would like to see skill brought back to pvp meaning those with skill obtain pvp gear and those without go without. It seems now every grey in the game can hide behind an x3 in KP and get updates with little fear of anything as pvp deaths mean nothing anymore. To me, this is the most disgusting aspect of pvp. lack of detrimentals. but that is another topic.</p><p>summary: BGs are fine and I hope people enjoy them but when I am tired of pvp in the open realm, I will retire until the next xpac.</p>

[Seaotter]

<p>What really gets to me is that you all only want "me me me". This is not just about you pvpers. I am on Nagafen but I am so happy they are doing this. It could bring a huge amount of players to our server. It could help Everquest 2 expand its market.</p><p>You need to stop being so selfish and remember, stop wanting for yourself, for once just praise the SOE for trying to give us a great new expansion and a great new play style.</p><p>You all who are being so rude about this? This is about your ego's your jealousy and your selfishness, SOE did a great job, new aas, new land, revamps for quest, fixs for bugs, new levels, quests, etc.</p><p>Are you happy for one second? No, you want "me me me" it can never just be about everyones enjoyment. The blues will enjoy this, and you know what? I am gonna play this, my friend will play this, and I will promote playing this because it is fun.</p><p>You zerg new players at level 10 and kill them in one hit, you zerg ss/kp and you never complain unless you lose, signs of a person not playing EQ2 for fun, but playing it for ego and status.</p><p>SOE just gave us all station cash and they give us free lon boosters every month, they give us events and try to do what is best for us all. Yet, so many of you bash them at every turn, they will never be able to please you, because you are so caught up in your selfishness and zerging that you can't enjoy this wonderful new feature and expansion. I pity you, I really do pity you.</p><p>Thats my 2 cents on that matter, don't loose your venom on SOE when they do us a favor.</p><p>I am sure someone will respond to this and flame, but take a second to take a deep breath, when was the last time you got on Nagafen and just said "today I am going to adventure and explore this beautiful world that is before me, no worries, no goals, just go out and be free"</p><p>This is directed towards those people in this thread that are being rude.</p>

[Yahshua]

<p><cite><a href="mailto<img src="></a>reor@Nagafen">Dreor@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>What really gets to me is that you all only want "me me me". This is not just about you pvpers. I am on Nagafen but I am so happy they are doing this. It could bring a huge amoutn of players to our server. It could help Everquest 2 expand its market.</p><p>You need to stop being so selfish and remember, stop wanting for yourself, for once just praise the SOE for trying to give us a great new expansion and a great new play style.</p><p>You all who are being so rude about this? This is about your ego's your jealousy and your selfishness, SOE did a great job, new aas, new land, revamps for quest, fixs for bugs, new levels, quests, etc.</p><p>Are you happy for one second? No, you want "me me me" it can never just be about everyones enjoyment. The blues will enjoy this, and you know what? I am gonna play this, my friend will play this, and I will promote playing this because it is fun.</p><p>You zerg new players at level 10 and kill them in one hit, you zerg ss/kp and you never complain unless you lose, signs of a person not playing EQ2 for fun, but playing it for ego and status.</p><p>SOE just gave us all station cash and they give us free lon boosters every month, they give us events and try to do what is best for us all. Yet, so many of you bash the at every turn, they will never be able to please you, because you are so caught up in your selfishness and zerging that you can't enjoy this wonderful new feature and expansion. I pity you, I really do pity you.</p><p>Thats my 2 cents on that matter, don't loose your venom on SOE when they do us a favor.</p></blockquote><p>People play a game because they enjoy the play style and when that play style is changing in a significant (and imho derogatory) manner, it frustrates people.  It has nothing to do with "selfishness".  Do you play games that you don't enjoy?  How selfish of you!  What a silly post <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Seaotter]

<p>Perhaps we have a different view on selfishness. I view selfishness as someone who says "boycott battlegrounds because it is unfair to me" yet has no mercy on their pvp server.</p><p>Someone who "I don't want the game to change unless it changes the exact way I want!"</p><p>I could be wrong, those could mean just a everyday nice guy who wants to spread love.</p><p>Also, battlegrounds changed nothing, sorry if you seem to think that battlegrounds caused something it didn't. Like everyone who speaks truth has said, battle grounds is battle grounds, it in no way was made to compete with pvp nor did it cause any nerfs on the Naggy server.</p><p>So, tell me again how battle grounds changed everything we know and love on Nagafen?</p><p>Sorry that you think my post is silly, next time I will try to add in SOE bashing, and saying "boycotting people who boycott battlegrounds". We all can tell those are not selfish and silly.</p>

[Yahshua]

<p><cite>Seaotter wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Perhaps we have a different view on selfishness. I view selfishness as someone who says "boycott battlegrounds because it is unfair to me" yet has no mercy on their pvp server.</p><p>Someone who "I don't want the game to change unless it changes the exact way I want!"</p><p>I could be wrong, those could mean just a everyday nice guy who wants to spread love.</p><p>Also, battlegrounds changed nothing, sorry if you seem to think that battlegrounds caused something it didn't. Like everyone who speaks truth has said, battle grounds is battle grounds, it in no way was made to compete with pvp nor did it cause any nerfs on the Naggy server.</p><p>So, tell me again how battle grounds changed everything we know and love on Nagafen?</p><p>Sorry that you think my post is silly, next time I will try to add in SOE bashing, and saying "boycotting people who boycott battlegrounds". We all can tell those are not selfish and silly.</p></blockquote><p>It changes the whole dynamic with OPEN WORLD PVE/PVP; which just happens to be the one dynamic about this game that I *personally* enjoy the most.  I think your original post is silly because you make sweeping judgements about people's <strong>motivations</strong> in their complaints about this new expansion. </p><p>my .02</p>

[Seaotter]

<p>Considering I do not like drama nor do I prefer to argue, which is what this is turning into, as when one party refuses logic it goes the direction of an arguement.</p><p><span >From Roth: Battlegrounds is meant to be a completely different playstyle.  It's not meant to replace open-world PvP.  If you don't care to play it, no one is forcing you to change your playstyle.</span></p><p>It does not change the dynamic, you do not even have to play it. You never have to see it and or deal with it.</p><p>I do not pass "Sweeping judgements" I back my words by definition, how can truth be wrong. Perhaps again, you are msitaken on the definition. Selfishness: devoted to or caring only for oneself; concerned primarily with one's own interests, benefits, welfare, etc., regardless of others.</p><p>I want battlegrounds, because it could bring in more players to eq2, I want battlegrounds because it will give everyone something else to do, I want battlegrounds because it will add another fun past time to the game and mkae people stay with the game longer. I do not even have an 80, I can not play in battlegrounds on Nagafen, so again, my want for this is not for myself, as I don't pvp as much as I roleplay, pve, and chat.</p><p>I must get some rest now, a bit of a nap before the expansion takes my time like a barbarian takes an ale.</p>

[Neskonlith]

<p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Don't hate on the BeeGees!</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">I think I found some footage of a very early early early pre-alpha BGs... check out the wicked backstab performed at 2:16!</span></p><p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLQWPgQMHhQ">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLQWPgQMHhQ</a></p><p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Bravnik]

<p>The problem with BG's is simple. They put in the BG, then people complain that PVE gear is more powerful and that end game geared people wipe the floor in the BG's. Then they start swinging the nerf bat on PVE Gear/Spells and they make PVP Gear that is equal to end game PVE gear but with much less requirements to get. The end result is the current condition of WOW. Everyone in the same gear, raids mean nothing, PVP has caused drastic nerfs to PVE Gear / Spells / Talents etc. WOW is so casual now that a 5 year old can raid end game content and fight in the arena. Hell a monkey could do it and be ranked in their crappy system.</p><p>PVP and PVE DON'T MIX. It's really that simple. I don't know why these stupid game developers thing it's a good idea to have PVP in a PVE game. If PVP was so [Removed for Content] popular then they would have a ton of PVP servers and just a few PVE ones.</p>

[VerdicAysen]

<p>It's going to happen. Might as well get over it now. The reason game developers do it is because it keeps the majority of their subscribers, i.e. the "carebears" happy. The best thing to do right now is be happy with what you have or move on. They come here to glean information to improve the game, seeing boycott battlegrounds on a PVP thread isn't exactly what sort of information they're looking for.</p><p>They are trying to make it more casual so people who have little time, such as myself, a "loser" or a "noob" or a "carebear" with two children, a pregnant wife, and a full time job can have fun as well. I apologize if you find this inconvenient. But battlegrounds are not PVP servers, I was on Venekor before I moved to Antonia Bayle. Someone in this forum said it best. Don't play them and continue doing what you're doing, in the end, what will be will be and there's nothing anyone is going to be able to do about it unless you are best friends with an executive producer over at SoE.</p>