Is it true you can't un-mentor in instances now? [Archive]

MurFalad

02-07-2010, 06:42 PM

<cite>shaunfletcher wrote:</cite><blockquote>I guess they have allowed the grey runs so far because of people needing shards, but with that being an irrelevance as of SF launch, have decided to close the loophole.Im not so happy about scaling up the tso instances to 90. Is it all of them? if so nice kick in the teeth for small group players there guys.</blockquote>If you find the TSO instances too hard at level 85 or so you could mentor down to 80 and get a bit of a boost. Running them as level 85 plus with them being fixed to 80 would just trivialise them. Sure you can complete them easily, but your not actually completing the instance as it was design to be run, even mentoring down takes a bit of an edge off but I think Guk and others will still be challenging. There is already plenty in the game that is very easy now if you mentor down 40+ levels, I'm happy that the TSO ones will at least have some challenge left in them.As I understand they've just fixed the loophole that lets you mentor, enter the instance and then unmentor. The problem with that was it was a very boring way of seeing an instance, yet it was also profitable. This is a clear case where the dev's needed to fix it to save the players from themselves. Its not fun content to burn through when everything is grey, only the loot (shard) is interesting and that's a pretty poor way to play the game.I'm relieved myself that they have closed the loophole, it at least prevents me from possibly being sucked into running the odd one to catch up with people, and it should also get the people who did rely on them to perhaps join up with some groups, at least on Runnyeye the past few weeks its been great for casuals just jumping into PUGs and manging to get through somehow to the end of a dungeon.

Wurm

02-07-2010, 08:03 PM

Why did they bother to do this to all instances?As I mentioned in the other thread, my daughter and I would mentor down far enough in Shard of Love that when we unmentored everything would be green.As a Paladin, Dirge duo this was hard enough to make it dangerous, and we had to really work well together to finish the zone.Its called fun.Yes the shard instance hole needed to be closed MONTHS AGO. But they didn't. Doing it now is just silly, and going that extra step to do it to all the instances in the game is just another slap in the face to duos and small groups. And ??? @ the person who mentioned the Chronomage quests, You couldn't finish them grey and get the reward or plushie from the get go, so I don't understand your problem. Could you explain?

bks6721

02-07-2010, 08:38 PM

can it still be done the old fashioned way?.. having an alt on a 2nd account at lvl 50 to set the level. Then group invite a level 80 to run the quest in the 50 zone?can a level 90 mentor to 80, pick up the shard quest, zone in, unmentor so the zone is green and still get the shards? This would make my Monk's free FD shard runs even easier.with 4 toons at level 80 I can get enough shards to make a full set of T2 in a week. Grey shards are not a never ending cycle of boringness that will drive out players. Most people did them for a short time and usually at the time of day that groups where hard to find. Not too many people keep running them once they have T2, thats when they are generally more accepted into running an actual group shard run.If the REAL issue was people using grey shard runs to level to 90 is seems like removing the exp from grey shard runs should be removed instead of the ability to unmentor.

Mustang8259

02-07-2010, 10:07 PM

Is this for real? where is this info coming from? I hope SOE reconsiders, Grey shard run are how my wife and I primarily work to get our shards being as we play at such odd hours do to our work schedules, that would be a really ____ move by SOE if this really gets implemented...

ke'la

02-07-2010, 10:07 PM

<cite>Wurm wrote:</cite><blockquote>Why did they bother to do this to all instances?As I mentioned in the other thread, my daughter and I would mentor down far enough in Shard of Love that when we unmentored everything would be green.As a Paladin, Dirge duo this was hard enough to make it dangerous, and we had to really work well together to finish the zone.Its called fun.Yes the shard instance hole needed to be closed MONTHS AGO. But they didn't. Doing it now is just silly, and going that extra step to do it to all the instances in the game is just another slap in the face to duos and small groups. And ??? @ the person who mentioned the Chronomage quests, You couldn't finish them grey and get the reward or plushie from the get go, so I don't understand your problem. Could you explain?</blockquote>My understanding is you will be able to Green a zone, just not Grey it out.

Bridgeplay

02-07-2010, 10:35 PM

I've seen this happen many, many times going back into EQ1. There's some new, popular, way to get gear, levels, spells, etc. Players rush to the new content, get what they want, and then lobby to have it nerfed. For reasons that are more political than analytical, SOE obliges the vocal few.For what it's worth, I did a few greyed shard runs, found them boring, and stopped doing them. But I see no reason why greyed shard runs need to be nerfed for people who still want to do them. Greyed shard runs helped non-raiding players catch up on the gear gap. It's not a sign of strength when a game leaves exploitable content in place for over a year and then nerfs it.

Chikkin

02-08-2010, 01:15 AM

once you enter an instance it sets mobs at the level appropriate for you, and you are stuck with that level, you cannot unmentor, you cannot invite a lvl 80 buddy to help you clear it without him being auto mentored down to the level of the zonethe grey shards are over on test and in beta, coming soon to live servers on 16thI am not sure if the zone will make an average if there's a group of players that differ in level entering a zone, that's worth testing still, but if not we will never see the scaling instances green, they will always be white with maybe blues and yellows thrown in reasons I heard that justify this change are: people were running grey zones to get shards, supposedly huge AA experience(why AA for repeatable quests? treat missions as repeatable quests and nerf AA on them like from any other repeatable quest) , then we have a problem with Moors vendors where for 150 shards you can buy all that fabled gear ( that merchant should have been never allowed in game in my opinion)really, who cares that someone who solos and doens't raid wants a piece of shard gear? these shards are now becoming obsolete anyway, lvl 80 folks are gonna move on to lvl 90 and farming new tokens and marks and whatever they wanna call them in the future

Bridgeplay

02-08-2010, 02:38 AM

Does the new expansion do anything to stop "Selling Looting Rights"? It's difficult to understand the logic of making it more difficult to obtain level 80 shard gear when much better level 80 gear is routinely sold in chat channels. There's even a recently created "Auction" channel to make "Selling Looting Rights" easier.

Lord Destyn

02-08-2010, 03:27 AM

This is why it is being done (as I see it anyways):SOE has stated that many of the TSO instances will scale to 90 and that includes some of the zones that currently scale down to 50. This means that there will be new T9 "shard" quests for T9 "Shard Armor" or whatever they will be called. This means that people will use the TSO "Grey Shard Run" exploit to now get T9 Shards from a lvl 50 scaled Befallen zone (or other zone). So the argument that the TSO Shards are now outdated content is a poor argument as these same zones will be used to obtain whatever is replacing the Shards for T9 gear. So the old issue is being fixed as it now becomes an Exploitable issue in Sentinel's Fate.I myself ran the <a href="mailto:cr@p">crap</a> out of Grey Shard Zones for my 6 capped toons, infact I spent well over 1,000 shards if you count T1,T2, T3 and then the upgraded Jewelry from WoE. I'm not exactly happy about this, but all the complaining we do wont help the situation. Guess I'll just have to make some of my toons wait til we grind out all the raid content and get alt drops on molds and skip right past the T9 shard gear all together.

Skeez1e

02-08-2010, 03:31 AM

<cite>Mustang8259 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Is this for real? where is this info coming from? I hope SOE reconsiders, Grey shard run are how my wife and I primarily work to get our shards being as we play at such odd hours do to our work schedules, that would be a really ____ move by SOE if this really gets implemented...</blockquote>It's on Test atm. If it's any consolation they are easier to do now. Or so far they are.

Morghus

02-08-2010, 03:40 AM

I don't see any ulterior motive to this change, it's really quite simple to me. It was obviously never meant to be a viable or legitimate method of obtaining shards.You cannot even obtain the quests if you aren't at least level 76, being able to mentor down and finish the quest was an oversight.Like many such oversights, it should have been corrected when it was first discovered so that people do not become comfortable with it and think that it is normal.

Qanyena

02-08-2010, 04:10 AM

<cite>Morghus wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don't see any ulterior motive to this change, it's really quite simple to me. It was obviously never meant to be a viable or legitimate method of obtaining shards.You cannot even obtain the quests if you aren't at least level 76, being able to mentor down and finish the quest was an oversight.Like many such oversights, it should have been corrected when it was first discovered so that people do not become comfortable with it and think that it is normal.</blockquote>Correct it was an oversight on SoE to allow grey shard runs. A matter of fact I know of 4 friends who actually got suspended for doing grey shard runs when SoE 1st learned this could be done. The GM who spoke to them about it said he would have to ask the dev team because to his knowledge no reward could be obtained by a grey quest or mob except that of HQ's which still gives rewards. Even though manastone quest for a while was bugged and GM's would say you had to mentor to get the update. Greying out shards wasn't meant to be and they have finally fixed it.

Wurm

02-08-2010, 07:37 AM

Fine then make it work on SHARD INSTANCES ONLY!There was no need to change how mentoring worked for all zones. None what so ever.SOE always uses a [Removed for Content] sledge-hammer when a scapel is needed, and they always wait till the patient is already dead to operate.

Horgana

02-08-2010, 09:52 AM

The main reason for removing the grey shard runs is that doing the up to 8 per day that you can do at the moment rewards up to 40% aa xp thus providing a quick and easy way (i.e. exploit) to level up and get aa's fast. This would have still worked all the way to lvl 90 / 250 aa's.They could have just removed the aa/xp from the missions once they've been done once. The only real reason that you would still want to run the grey missions is to accumulate void shards to spend on gear that is going to be superceded anyway.To use an analogy, I'm pretty sure everyone stopped farming Labs for Relic armor the day RoK was released and I think the need/desire to farm void shards would diminish considerably as soon as TSF is released.One final note, I think the fix was only supposed to apply to scalable zones, i.e. the TSO shard instances - I'm not sure if the shard of love was supposed to be included, and any other instance e.g. RoK, previous expansion zones are not - i.e. you can still zone into Nek Castle (for example) without it auto-mentoring you back down to your 30's.

Whilhelmina

02-08-2010, 09:56 AM

What does it do in instances that don't level with you (nektropos for example? I hate this change. Not for shard runs but what do you do if you find out that your group mentored on a level 20 can't kill a level 24 boss and try to dementor and mentor down a level 29 char?

Horgana

02-08-2010, 10:02 AM

<cite>Whilhelmina@Storms wrote:</cite><blockquote>What does it do in instances that don't level with you (nektropos for example? </blockquote>Nothing - only scalable zones will auto-mentor you down.

Yimway

02-08-2010, 01:03 PM

<cite>BabyAngel wrote:</cite><blockquote>Fighting the same monsters over and over at level is a lot more tiring and boring than running places and killing them.It does mean that shard runs will not longer be able to be soloed? So if your solo you... never get shard armor...?</blockquote>Yes, you'll have to do each zone ~4 times to get all the shards you might want. I know 4 times sounds like a lot of times to do each instance, but thats roughly what it takes. Good news here is, you wouldn't have managed to get every nice instanced fabled items for your class with only this many runs.And shockingly, heroic level rewards are not acheivable via solo methods.

Geothe

02-08-2010, 05:13 PM

I'm glad that they finally fixed grey shards.They probably had this fix ready for a good while, but decided to just apply it with the expansion so that everyone starts with a clean slate in t9.If they would of done it half way through TSO, there would of been screaming to the hills because "so and so could take advantage for so many months".Now no one will have a time advantage running grey shards in t9 instances.TSO shard aquired to this point will be irrelevent at 90 honestly.

Gamer1965

02-08-2010, 05:40 PM

<cite>Geothe wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm glad that they finally fixed grey shards.They probably had this fix ready for a good while, but decided to just apply it with the expansion so that everyone starts with a clean slate in t9.If they would of done it half way through TSO, there would of been screaming to the hills because "so and so could take advantage for so many months".Now no one will have a time advantage running grey shards in t9 instances.TSO shard aquired to this point will be irrelevent at 90 honestly.</blockquote>QFE +1

Bridgeplay

02-08-2010, 06:39 PM

My recollection is that the grey shard "exploit" was known in beta testing for TSO, which was released in November, 2008. Not only did SOE leave the "exploit" in the game for 15 months no one has yet explained why level 80 shard gear was an "exploit" that needed to be fixed, but "Selling Looting Rights" to much better end-game gear was given it's own Auction channel.When there's a real exploit SOE brings the servers down right away and fixes it, as they did last week.

Buffie

02-08-2010, 07:06 PM

Im a casual player and have never done shard instances,Im more curious about how and if this affects holiday/event instances. Like icy keep, this past year I couldnt burn the corrival down even at green mentored, ( I solo or 2 box), asking outside for help ranging from 15 mins to an hour and nothing, then I tried mentoring to grey out zone and I was able tocomplete this finally.Also, I have seveal alts so even if I could find someonde to run one instance with me, in MY experience, I havent been able to run again with another alt. Nektulos server seems more solo oriented or Im not seeing many people on there. I have been in both large and small guilds, and either they arent on when I can be on or everyone else is too busy or the groups within are clique-ey.So is this gonna affect me?

Whilhelmina

02-08-2010, 07:50 PM

<cite>patches69 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Im a casual player and have never done shard instances,Im more curious about how and if this affects holiday/event instances. Like icy keep, this past year I couldnt burn the corrival down even at green mentored, ( I solo or 2 box), asking outside for help ranging from 15 mins to an hour and nothing, then I tried mentoring to grey out zone and I was able tocomplete this finally.Also, I have seveal alts so even if I could find someonde to run one instance with me, in MY experience, I havent been able to run again with another alt. Nektulos server seems more solo oriented or Im not seeing many people on there. I have been in both large and small guilds, and either they arent on when I can be on or everyone else is too busy or the groups within are clique-ey.So is this gonna affect me?</blockquote>Same question here and I'm not interested at all in shard gear.

Finora

02-09-2010, 12:13 AM

<cite>Buffie@Nektulos wrote:</cite><blockquote>Im a casual player and have never done shard instances,Im more curious about how and if this affects holiday/event instances. Like icy keep, this past year I couldnt burn the corrival down even at green mentored, ( I solo or 2 box), asking outside for help ranging from 15 mins to an hour and nothing, then I tried mentoring to grey out zone and I was able tocomplete this finally.Also, I have seveal alts so even if I could find someonde to run one instance with me, in MY experience, I havent been able to run again with another alt. Nektulos server seems more solo oriented or Im not seeing many people on there. I have been in both large and small guilds, and either they arent on when I can be on or everyone else is too busy or the groups within are clique-ey.So is this gonna affect me?</blockquote>Good question. This is definately not something that should be in the 'fun' holiday instances. Or shard of love, since that is one big fluff'o rama.I agree with the person that said that it should be shard instances only that are affected by this. There is no reason whatsoever for them to force it on any other zones. I can see why they'd want to stop grey shards (though it should have been done immediately instead of letting it stew for more than a year). Particularly since they added in a fast and easy way for people to mentor down as well as a merchant to buy the fabled drops from via shards all while grey shards were still allowed.

Lillaanya

02-09-2010, 01:02 AM

As a casual player on a sparsely populated server, I would like to see more ways to obtain shards as a solo player. The main reason that removing the "grey shards exploit" will make some players angry is simply because of the limited opportunity for solo players to earn them.

Krinta

02-09-2010, 01:49 AM

Having just come back to Eq2 after so long, I feared I would never be able to catch up with gear. When I was able to do grey shards and also learn the zones I loved it. But now I see others who need to play catch up with gear and not being ready to enter a shard zone being pushed back even more.After spending so much time in the grey shard zones I now am willing and able to do them at level. While the learning of the zones is not as much as getting the gear. I also think there needs to be more ways for solo players to earn shards were the need for running a grey shard zone wont be needed.

Armawk

02-09-2010, 02:25 AM

I think its value in learning instances could somehow be used as a lesson.. I know that if I hadnt done it grey it would have been much much harder to hold my end up in tso instances in a pickup group later. Something that provides a bit of that without the exploits.. who knows.

Te'ana

02-09-2010, 03:26 AM

We need a "red' name to answer our questions. This is a subject that requires a definitive response, not speculation.

Yimway

02-09-2010, 12:45 PM

<cite>Lateana@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>We need a "red' name to answer our questions. This is a subject that requires a definitive response, not speculation.</blockquote>It was answered in beta, this is the intended *fix* for the *exploit*.

Wurm

02-09-2010, 01:22 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lateana@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>We need a "red' name to answer our questions. This is a subject that requires a definitive response, not speculation.</blockquote>It was answered in beta, this is the intended *fix* for the *exploit*.</blockquote>And that Atan, does not answer why they saw fit to do this with all instances that level.I give a [Removed for Content] about the shard instances even though its a serious case of nailing the barn door shut after all the cows and horses have escaped.

Dharken

02-09-2010, 01:24 PM

Welp... there goes my ability to get decent gear that doesnt require rares... As a player who solo's due to time constraints and schedule this feels kinda cheap...SOE constantly uses multi-instance dungeons for different quests etc... give us Solo'ers some Solo quests to make up the difference. We'd still have to 'earn' our shards as opposed to 'exploiting' them (phfft) crank down the AA xp award as that was just foolish in the first place, and keep it as a daily... Two birds, same game of whack-a-mole

Yimway

02-09-2010, 01:28 PM

<cite>Wurm wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lateana@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>We need a "red' name to answer our questions. This is a subject that requires a definitive response, not speculation.</blockquote>It was answered in beta, this is the intended *fix* for the *exploit*.</blockquote>And that Atan, does not answer why they saw fit to do this with all instances that level.I give a [Removed for Content] about the shard instances even though its a serious case of nailing the barn door shut after all the cows and horses have escaped.</blockquote>I assume it was a global code change, and not something additional added for specific instances.I agree it hurts more people than just the offenders. I'm pretty sure atleast half of my toons got their RR quest updates running it vs green con mobs (not for shards, for the other quests). The change certainly makes those updates (and others) more difficult to obtain, but one could also argue, it removes our abilitiy to trivialize the intended dificulty.I have a hard time argueing against that. Particularly when I weigh in all the gripes about 'bad players' who are 'under challenged' to better themselves.For sure its controversial, and the change will inflame them, heck, they'll get upset with just what I post here, but in the end, I personally can't find sufficient grounds on which to argue why it shouldn't be this way.

Wurm

02-09-2010, 01:34 PM

Bad players are why ignore lists exist.Anything that limits how people can play and have fun is hurting the game.Making people want to not play your game is not how you make money.

Skywarrior

02-09-2010, 02:11 PM

<cite>Wurm wrote:</cite><blockquote>Bad players are why ignore lists exist.Anything that limits how people can play and have fun is hurting the game.Making people want to not play your game is not how you make money.</blockquote>For some reason a lot of people have gotten this really off-the-wall idea that a game, any game, should be playable by whatever rules and standards any given player cares to apply. While this mentality works fine in a single player game where you are competing against yourself, it simply boggles why anyone would try to apply that logic to a multi-player game. That is like playing poker with three other friends and you can draw three cards while they can each only draw one. Limits on how people can play a game are called "rules". Some of them are layed out in writing and players are asked to abide by them (Terms of Service and EULA). Others are coded into the actual game itself to try to force players to remain within the designed limits of the game.Just because a game has "Role Play" in the name is not carte blanche for "anything goes". MMORPG titles, as a rule, do a fairly decent job accomodating a wide variety of player tastes and playstyles. None of them are perfect, of course, but from solo to raider and casual to hardcore these games tend to have a pretty fair "fun factor" across the board. That said, it is foolishness to enter any game and not think that there will be rules and standards to govern how the game is played and against which all players, regardless of playstyle, might measure their achievement. Achievement must be measureable and meaningful in these games or it will fail. And because of that there will be players, of all playstyles, that simply do not measure up to accepted achievement norms as set by the players themselves.There is something about EQ2 that has caused every current player to subscribed to this game instead of another. But every player simply cannot join this game and expect it to conform to every little whim and desire that player wishes. There are simply too many people playing with too many differing desires and goals, many of which are in direct conflict. The developers must arbitrate this conflict to the best of their ability and that sometimes means that, yes, they will lose an occasional customer that simply cannot accept a specific change. Such is life.In short, I disagree very much with the person quoted above. Rules and standards in games do place limits on how players can play and have fun expressly for the good of the game and without those rules and standards the game would fail. Indeed, it would not really be a game. Now, the debate on which rules and standards are best for the game is perfectly legitimate and healthy (usually) but every player in the debate should always remember that there is a good chance that no matter how strongly held their opinion on a specific matter it may be a minority position and simply not healthy for the game.

Gaige

02-09-2010, 02:18 PM

<cite>Lillaanya wrote:</cite><blockquote>As a casual player on a sparsely populated server, I would like to see more ways to obtain shards as a solo player. The main reason that removing the "grey shards exploit" will make some players angry is simply because of the limited opportunity for solo players to earn them.</blockquote>Shard gear was never intended for solo players outside the solo shard of the day quest. Which, isn't really a realistic option since it would take so long.Soloing should lead to solo rewards, not heroic or raid rewards.

Gungo

02-09-2010, 02:29 PM

Which instances scale that are not shard instances?Holiday events and shard of love?Pretty much all those instances are solo/duoable. Whats the complaint again?

Dulissa

02-09-2010, 02:39 PM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lillaanya wrote:</cite><blockquote>As a casual player on a sparsely populated server, I would like to see more ways to obtain shards as a solo player. The main reason that removing the "grey shards exploit" will make some players angry is simply because of the limited opportunity for solo players to earn them.</blockquote>Shard gear was never intended for solo players outside the solo shard of the day quest. Which, isn't really a realistic option since it would take so long.Soloing should lead to solo rewards, not heroic or raid rewards.</blockquote>tbh, all shard gear I've gotten has been through the solo shard quest lol. I just have no interest in going into the group zones, and as a matter of fact, haven't been in one group zone since the TSO beta.But then again, I'm crazy like that.

Yimway

02-09-2010, 02:45 PM

<cite>Toressa@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>tbh, all shard gear I've gotten has been through the solo shard quest lol. I just have no interest in going into the group zones, and as a matter of fact, haven't been in one group zone since the TSO beta.But then again, I'm crazy like that.</blockquote>I'm amazed you find enough solo progression content to stay engaged with the game, but to each his own, and more power to ya <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I think the issue many have is they exhaust the solo progression and then expect to be able to continue some sort of progression by soloing into heroic content. This is of course an invalid expectation.

Chikkin

02-09-2010, 02:45 PM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lillaanya wrote:</cite><blockquote>As a casual player on a sparsely populated server, I would like to see more ways to obtain shards as a solo player. The main reason that removing the "grey shards exploit" will make some players angry is simply because of the limited opportunity for solo players to earn them.</blockquote>Shard gear was never intended for solo players outside the solo shard of the day quest. Which, isn't really a realistic option since it would take so long.Soloing should lead to solo rewards, not heroic or raid rewards.</blockquote>your first sentence contradicts your 3rd sentence, as it is possible a solo player will get a heroic reward, just by doing the daily solo shard quest, yes it is realistic option, but for truly solo casual players who take time and not race to 90 and best raid gear in 2 weeks /playedOddly enough in just 150 days of doing daily solo shard you can get a fabled reward by buying it off a merchant, how is that for you?

Gaige

02-09-2010, 03:41 PM

<cite>Chikkin wrote:</cite><blockquote>Oddly enough in just 150 days of doing daily solo shard you can get a fabled reward by buying it off a merchant, how is that for you?</blockquote>If one heroic fabled per 150 days played is progression to you, then we simply have different definitions of progression.

Bridgeplay

02-09-2010, 04:14 PM

Why is it that people who are claiming that greyed shard quests trivialize the game are not also demanding that "Selling Looting Rights" to far, far superior gear also be stopped?

Gaige

02-09-2010, 04:18 PM

<cite>Bridgeplay wrote:</cite><blockquote>Why is it that people who are claiming that greyed shard quests trivialize the game are not also demanding that "Selling Looting Rights" to far, far superior gear also be stopped?</blockquote>Probably because the other 200 times this argument has been brought up its been shot down.If you want to buy Munzok gear on Kithicor, you can't, because my guild doesn't sell it. No other guild can kill him. You can't mentor down, gray him out, get his gear, and then sell it. The only way to sell Munzok gear is to kill him at his intended difficulty level.All gear sold in channels was killed by players doing the content at the intended difficulty level. For whatever reason they have no use for the gear and they are willing to trade plat, which is more useful than gear no one needs, for their effort.If, it was possible, to gray out Munzok's Material Bastion and then solo it and receive all the gear as if you did it orange, I would demand it be changed asap. However, since that isn't and has never been the case, there is no similarities between selling raid gear and doing gray instances for shards and xp.

Armawk

02-09-2010, 04:35 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm amazed you find enough solo progression content to stay engaged with the game, but to each his own, and more power to ya <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" />I think the issue many have is they exhaust the solo progression and then expect to be able to continue some sort of progression by soloing into heroic content. This is of course an invalid expectation.</blockquote>In terms of general instances, people like doing green zones with their solo (or more likely duo) characters. No expectation of decent gear frankly, Its just for fun and to see the places other people played when they were cap zones. Taking that away entirely would be nasty, but it doesnt seem like that has been done so *shrug*The reaility of grey shard runs is that without shard gear there is as of today not much of a route to access group content from solo content without having a guild or friends willing to carry dead weight around for a while. TSO has made it so that you need group rewards to get into groups to win those group rewards. Try and get a pickup shard run in level (even easy stuff like deep forge) in solo levelled gear and let me know how you go on. It wont happen. Try and get a group to go into Kunark instances to follow the actual progression. It also wont happen. Noone wants to do those and they certainly dont want to do them with undergeared strangers. I dont like the fact grey runs ever existed (Ive done a handful,mainly to see the zones) and I especially think its wrong that people are going past T1 gear (lets face it, T1 is just a base point to be able to join the content) using them as that is sad.Maybe that will change in SF. we shall see.(Oh and some people want to play the game they love and subscribe to. They dont care if its group content, the only reason they want to do group content is because there is nothing else left, as repeatable solo content with any progression of difficulty is a concept the devs dont understand, they are stuck on solo=easy.)

Bridgeplay

02-09-2010, 05:04 PM

Gaige, no, you haven't "shot down" the hypocrisy of defending "Selling Looting Rights" while also advocating the nerfing of unmentoring methods that benefit non-raiders.<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bridgeplay wrote:</cite><blockquote>Why is it that people who are claiming that greyed shard quests trivialize the game are not also demanding that "Selling Looting Rights" to far, far superior gear also be stopped?</blockquote>Probably because the other 200 times this argument has been brought up its been shot down.If you want to buy Munzok gear on Kithicor, you can't, because my guild doesn't sell it. No other guild can kill him. You can't mentor down, gray him out, get his gear, and then sell it. The only way to sell Munzok gear is to kill him at his intended difficulty level.All gear sold in channels was killed by players doing the content at the intended difficulty level. For whatever reason they have no use for the gear and they are willing to trade plat, which is more useful than gear no one needs, for their effort.If, it was possible, to gray out Munzok's Material Bastion and then solo it and receive all the gear as if you did it orange, I would demand it be changed asap. However, since that isn't and has never been the case, there is no similarities between selling raid gear and doing gray instances for shards and xp.</blockquote>

Gaige

02-09-2010, 05:16 PM

<cite>Bridgeplay wrote:</cite><blockquote>Gaige, no, you haven't "shot down" the hypocrisy of defending "Selling Looting Rights" while also advocating the nerfing of unmentoring methods that benefit non-raiders.</blockquote>Opinions vary, and if you believe that gray shards and selling loot rights are the same, then your opinion doesn't interest me anyway.Also, its hilarious that you imply "non-raiders" as some all encompassing playstyle that benefited from EXPLOITED gray shard runs.I know plenty of "non-raiders" who ran shard instances at their intended difficulty in order to earn their gear.Gray shard runs benefited lazy exploiters almost exclusively, tbh.

Geothe

02-09-2010, 05:39 PM

I can't stop laughing when people resort to comparing grey shard runs to selling of loot rights to raid drops.It is totally hilarious that some people think they are even comparible in the slightest. LOL

Yimway

02-09-2010, 06:25 PM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote>Gray shard runs benefited lazy exploiters almost exclusively, tbh.</blockquote>Man I hate agreeing with Gaige, it feels realy dirty.But yeap, that pretty much sums it up, sums up why there is a change.I am curious, what non-shard quests does it break for people?

Bridgeplay

02-09-2010, 06:34 PM

So people who get shard gear for themself by greying quests are lazy, but people who buy "Looting Rights" to much better gear without doing even the greyed-out content have somehow earned their gear?<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote>Gray shard runs benefited lazy exploiters almost exclusively, tbh.</blockquote>Man I hate agreeing with Gaige, it feels realy dirty.But yeap, that pretty much sums it up, sums up why there is a change.I am curious, what non-shard quests does it break for people?</blockquote>

Geothe

02-09-2010, 06:52 PM

<cite>Bridgeplay wrote:</cite><blockquote>So people who get shard gear for themself by greying quests are lazy, but people who buy "Looting Rights" to much better gear without doing even the greyed-out content have somehow earned their gear?</blockquote>In order to be able to sell loot rights, someone must actually defeat the encounter which drops the loot. In order for the encounter to drop the loot, it must not be grey. When selling loot rights, the encounter was defeated in a legit manner, as intended.Grey shards, you can just run through the zone past what should be agro mobs clicking updates, or merely kill a few selected mobs while they are 30 levels undercon to you. You are NOT completely the encounters as designed, you are exploiting doing grey quests to obtain lvl 80 gear.Entirely different things.

Gaige

02-09-2010, 07:08 PM

Bridgeplay

02-09-2010, 07:19 PM

On our server there are several people who use real-world dollars to buy LON booster packs, then sell the packs and/or the items they get from them for plat, which they then use to buy "Looting Rights" gear. While it's fully legal to do this under the rules of EQ2, I will contend that this is every bit as "lazy" a practice as greying a quest to get shard gear.Plat is easy to get. Plat doesn't indicate that someone has "earned" the gear they buy through "Looting Rights."<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bridgeplay wrote:</cite><blockquote>So people who get shard gear for themself by greying quests are lazy, but people who buy "Looting Rights" to much better gear without doing even the greyed-out content have somehow earned their gear?</blockquote>Sure, assuming they didn't buy their plat. They earned the plat, another player earned the gear and then a barter was made exchanging one for the other.</blockquote>

Gaige

02-09-2010, 07:29 PM

<cite>Bridgeplay wrote:</cite><blockquote>On our server there are several people who use real-world dollars to buy LON booster packs, then sell the packs and/or the items they get from them for plat, which they then use to buy "Looting Rights" gear. While it's fully legal to do this under the rules of EQ2, I will contend that this is every bit as "lazy" a practice as greying a quest to get shard gear.Plat is easy to get. Plat doesn't indicate that someone has "earned" the gear they buy through "Looting Rights."</blockquote>SOE has no issues with RMT in their games. LoN RMT is not against the rules in any way.Still not the same as gray shard exploiting.

bks6721

02-09-2010, 07:40 PM

<cite>Geothe wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bridgeplay wrote:</cite><blockquote>So people who get shard gear for themself by greying quests are lazy, but people who buy "Looting Rights" to much better gear without doing even the greyed-out content have somehow earned their gear?</blockquote>In order to be able to sell loot rights, someone must actually defeat the encounter which drops the loot. In order for the encounter to drop the loot, it must not be grey. When selling loot rights, the encounter was defeated in a legit manner, as intended.Grey shards, you can just run through the zone past what should be agro mobs clicking updates, or merely kill a few selected mobs while they are 30 levels undercon to you. You are NOT completely the encounters as designed, you are exploiting doing grey quests to obtain lvl 80 gear.Entirely different things.</blockquote>I do not buy that arguement. Can I get a "chapter" update if YOU clear a zone while I'm standing in NQ? Of course not, just because someone does the content just not justify MY progression.You mention the term "as designed"... well what do you think the designed term "No0Trade" means? Do you really think it was the intent to be able to be traded in the first place?The only reason this comes up again and again during a grey shard discussion is because it IS the same people denouncing grey shards that DO sell loot rights.They claim we haven't earned the LEGENDARY gear, but are happy to sell us FABLED. It's hypocritical to say the least.

bks6721

02-09-2010, 07:46 PM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bridgeplay wrote:</cite><blockquote>On our server there are several people who use real-world dollars to buy LON booster packs, then sell the packs and/or the items they get from them for plat, which they then use to buy "Looting Rights" gear. While it's fully legal to do this under the rules of EQ2, I will contend that this is every bit as "lazy" a practice as greying a quest to get shard gear.Plat is easy to get. Plat doesn't indicate that someone has "earned" the gear they buy through "Looting Rights."</blockquote>SOE has no issues with RMT in their games. LoN RMT is not against the rules in any way.Still not the same as gray shard exploiting.</blockquote>what part of "NO TRADE" are you unable to understand. Selling LR to no trade gear is an exploit, SOE just doesn't have the nerve to call out the exploiting raiders who are trading something not meant to be traded.if they wanted it tradeable for alts, it would be HEIRLOOM.

Gaige

02-09-2010, 07:47 PM

<cite>Pauly@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>You mention the term "as designed"... well what do you think the designed term "No0Trade" means? Do you really think it was the intent to be able to be traded in the first place?They claim we haven't earned the LEGENDARY gear, but are happy to sell us FABLED. It's hypocritical to say the least.</blockquote>No trade means after its in your inventory you can't trade it. It means you can't use it for a month, get an upgrade and then sell the item I sold you on the broker or via a trade.I don't care about tags, I'll sell any gear that people are willing to pay for.It is in no way hypocritical to trade gear I earned for plat another player earned while saying players shouldn't be able to gray out a zone, trivializing it, while earning shards, coin and xp.Until I can sell raid loot from gray mobs, the two things have nothing in common.You forget I played this game before attuneable and no-trade existed. I know why they were implemented, and it was to keep raid gear off the broker.SOE won't fix the selling of loot rights because its not broken and because if they did it would kill raiding, because alts would be unable to get loot.

Gaige

02-09-2010, 07:50 PM

<cite>Pauly@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Can I get a "chapter" update if YOU clear a zone while I'm standing in NQ?</blockquote>Sure, if the quest update is a body/chest drop and you make it to the zone before it despawns. I've sold many quest updates, including the manastone heritage starter.

Bridgeplay

02-09-2010, 07:55 PM

Of the several bad ideas coming with Sentinel's Fate, nerfing unmentoring in scaleable zones is the one, I think, that will cause EQ2 to lose the most customers.

Gaige

02-09-2010, 07:59 PM

The most exploiters maybe.

Dasein

02-09-2010, 08:02 PM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote>The most exploiters maybe.</blockquote>They're still customers, and if there is such a large portion of the population engaged in this sort of behavior, than perhaps it is time to rethink your product to better serve your customers.

Yimway

02-09-2010, 08:02 PM

<cite>Bridgeplay wrote:</cite><blockquote>Of the several bad ideas coming with Sentinel's Fate, nerfing unmentoring in scaleable zones is the one, I think, that will cause EQ2 to lose the most customers.</blockquote>Doubtful.Most people I run into want to play the game, not exploit it.

Gaige

02-09-2010, 08:10 PM

<cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote>They're still customers, and if there is such a large portion of the population engaged in this sort of behavior, than perhaps it is time to rethink your product to better serve your customers.</blockquote>I can't see any scenario where its good for your progressive gear based game to award gear for basically doing nothing.All it would lead to is burnout. If players want heroic gear they need to do heroic content. That doesn't include lowering it 30 levels so its trivialized.Solo content exists for those players who don't wish to group up and do group content, what most players refuse to accept is the solo rewards associated with it. Thankfully, for those players, SOE allows them to purchase gear they can't get by paying using in-game coin which they can either earn during their playtime or buy via real life cash if they value their time more than their money.So no. Just because a "large portion" of this game takes the path of least resistance to the point of exploiting, doesn't mean the product should change to suit players with this mentality.

Skywarrior

02-09-2010, 08:21 PM

<cite>Pauly@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>what part of "NO TRADE" are you unable to understand. Selling LR to no trade gear is an exploit, SOE just doesn't have the nerve to call out the exploiting raiders who are trading something not meant to be traded.if they wanted it tradeable for alts, it would be HEIRLOOM.</blockquote>"NO TRADE" is simply a restrictive tag that is used to control the flow of goods within the game. In EQ2 it is the equivalent to "BIND ON PICKUP" in other games. As long as that NO TRADE item is still sitting in the loot chest, it belongs to no one. If left in the chest too long it will simply cease to exist. The raid which caused the chest to drop earned the right to assign the gear out of the chest as it sees fit. Once the gear is looted, then the NO TRADE tag kicks in and it is bound to the character that looted it. As soon as it is looted it is taken out of circulation and is no longer relevent to the progression of any other character. Items without the NO TRADE tag remain relevent for progression for an indeterminate and indefinite period of time as it may be passed on and on and on to successive characters.Essentially, every piece of gear that drops from a raid chest is "auctioned off". It may be auctioned for points (DKP), it may be random rolled, or even sometimes bid on for plat within the raid itself. Then there are times no one wants the loot on the raid and it may be "auctioned off" to alts or guildmates not on the raid in the same manner with DKP or random roll or for plat. After that, if there is no one on the raid or an alt or a guildmate that needs the item, the item may be put up for auction to the server population. At this point there is still no ownership of the item itself, only control of the access to that item. Of course, there are also raids that simply transmute anything that no one on the raid wants, if it is transmutable. Then they might sell or auction the results of the transmute instead of the item itself.Now, I know you know all that. Based on your comments though I believe the ones who really do not understand the concept of limited access and use of restricted tags in general are those trying to compare methods of initial distribution of loot and controlled introduction of gear with exploitive trivializing of content. Edit: By the way, most raid dropped gear is Heirloom now, actually. I see NO TRADE tags more on pure quest rewards now than drops.

Elftimber

02-09-2010, 08:32 PM

If SOE is closing this opportunity to run content solo then they should open up another method to use the content. Otherwise this a just a waste of effort for a significant portion of the player base. Not everyone can or wants to raid. Yet everyone want to improve their toons. I can play 1-3 hours per day, 5-6 days per week. I play the game as a crafter first and adventure to get supplies for crafting. Most of my gear is quested or crafted. I consider T2 shard armor as crafted gear. I have run about 5 TSO dungenons and 2-3 of those were greyed out, none were soloed. Most of my shards came from the solo quest. With this change I will never see the inside of most of the TSO content or other scalable instances. There are other reasons to go into the TSO zones: collectables, disco AA, quests and to just look around. They could make a solo version of the instances that have only treasured loot, non-heroic bosses and do not allow groups in.

Gaige

02-09-2010, 08:39 PM

<cite>Elftimber@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>I consider T2 shard armor as crafted gear. </blockquote>You're confused, T2 shard armor isn't crafted gear.

Bridgeplay

02-09-2010, 08:42 PM

T2 armor is indeed crafted gear. It can also be purchased from an npc, but it takes less shards to have a crafter make the gear via commission.<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Elftimber@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>I consider T2 shard armor as crafted gear. </blockquote>You're confused, T2 shard armor isn't crafted gear.</blockquote>

Elftimber

02-09-2010, 08:44 PM

Either a guildie or I made all the shard gear I have. Must be crafted....

Gaige

02-09-2010, 08:46 PM

<cite>Bridgeplay wrote:</cite><blockquote>T2 armor is indeed crafted gear. It can also be purchased from an npc, but it takes less shards to have a crafter make the gear via commission</blockquote>It can also be crafted but its still a heroic reward.

Skywarrior

02-09-2010, 08:51 PM

<cite>Elftimber@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Either a guildie or I made all the shard gear I have. Must be crafted....</blockquote>True enough but that is sort of like saying the VP raid sets or the T4 shard sets are "vendor purchased" because you have to turn in the parts you get from a raid and other sources to an NPC in exchange for the gear. Yes, the crafter who has the recipes may make the gear if the player provides the materials (shards) required. Crafters are not necessary to get the gear, however, just cheaper in shards.Essentially, the T1/T2 armor sets are the Heroic version of the raid-dropped pattern sets.

bks6721

02-09-2010, 08:59 PM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Pauly@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>You mention the term "as designed"... well what do you think the designed term "No0Trade" means? Do you really think it was the intent to be able to be traded in the first place?They claim we haven't earned the LEGENDARY gear, but are happy to sell us FABLED. It's hypocritical to say the least.</blockquote>No trade means after its in your inventory you can't trade it. It means you can't use it for a month, get an upgrade and then sell the item I sold you on the broker or via a trade.I don't care about tags, I'll sell any gear that people are willing to pay for.It is in no way hypocritical to trade gear I earned for plat another player earned while saying players shouldn't be able to gray out a zone, trivializing it, while earning shards, coin and xp.Until I can sell raid loot from gray mobs, the two things have nothing in common.You forget I played this game before attuneable and no-trade existed. I know why they were implemented, and it was to keep raid gear off the broker.SOE won't fix the selling of loot rights because its not broken and because if they did it would kill raiding, because alts would be unable to get loot.</blockquote>which is more trivial between the two?my templar soloing 20 level 50 Orgres in DF for a grey shard (takes me 30 minutes)orraid geared group doing 40k+ dps clearing a lvl 80 DF zone in 15 minutes (i've seen it even faster)who trivialized it more?

bks6721

02-09-2010, 09:01 PM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Pauly@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Can I get a "chapter" update if YOU clear a zone while I'm standing in NQ?</blockquote>Sure, if the quest update is a body/chest drop and you make it to the zone before it despawns. I've sold many quest updates, including the manastone heritage starter.</blockquote>doesn't it make you sad that they didn't earn it themselves? don't you feel that should be fixed as well?

bks6721

02-09-2010, 09:05 PM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote>They're still customers, and if there is such a large portion of the population engaged in this sort of behavior, than perhaps it is time to rethink your product to better serve your customers.</blockquote>I can't see any scenario where its good for your progressive gear based game to award gear for basically doing nothing.</blockquote>unless they want to buy it from you right?

bks6721

02-09-2010, 09:13 PM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bridgeplay wrote:</cite><blockquote>T2 armor is indeed crafted gear. It can also be purchased from an npc, but it takes less shards to have a crafter make the gear via commission</blockquote>It can also be crafted but its still a heroic reward.</blockquote>says who? Is it a heroic reward if I run the daily solo shard quest in Lavastorm until I have enough to craft an item?Just yesterday I got a legendary piece of gear from a solo named mob.. was that heroic?

Elftimber

02-09-2010, 09:32 PM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bridgeplay wrote:</cite><blockquote>T2 armor is indeed crafted gear. It can also be purchased from an npc, but it takes less shards to have a crafter make the gear via commission</blockquote>It can also be crafted but its still a heroic reward.</blockquote>And your point is? Its a crafted item to me. I did the TS missions till I got the recipe books, ran solo shard quests and made the item. Elitist people telling other people how they should play the game are just rude.I have looted over 50 fabled items, none from a epic mob. And I didn't need 23 people to help me. Does that make them an "epic" reward? Labels are just a way that SOE classifies items. Get over it.

Horgana

02-09-2010, 10:16 PM

This thread seems to have gone somewhat off topic into all a whole bunch of arguments that have been thrashed out ad-infinitum in other threads.I'll re-iterate the basic points about the change:i) grey shard quests currently award a good amount of easily repeatable experience, whether it be adventure or alternative achivement depending on your level / amount of aa's / aa slider setting, plus a void shard.ii) it is currently possible to solo up to 8 grey shard quests per day, earning both void shards and experience.iii) void shards are only useful for obtaining T8 armor and jewellery, which is about to become as desirable as RoK armor sets were when TSO was released, and T7 stuff was when RoK was released. i.e. not very.iv) experience is still desirable and without the change you would still be able to get up to 40% of a level per day running grey shard zones.For the people who still want to go on running grey shard quests to accumulate more and more void shards I can see that this change may annoy you - however it has been possible for more than a year and a quarter and there has been plenty of time to get as many shards as you could ever possibly need - given that the spectre of this change going in has been haunting since the day TSO was released, presumably you would have been getting in as many as you could in case this sort of change was made one day.For everyone else, without this change then whenever you are at a loose end grinding a few grey shard zones would be an easy way to get a chunk of experience each day. This would obviously skew the rate of progress that the developers intended us to make. That (given void shards are expected to become somewhat less desirable) is the motivation behind them actually putting this change in.As I said before, they could have just removed the experience from the quest, which would have been a much simpler change, but instead they have implemented a somewhat incomplete attempt to prevent the void shard zones being run grey.I have bugged this on beta, so I will say it again, as the way things currently stand it is actually still possible to grey the shard zones. In an attempt to see how well the change had been implemented I did this:* I was level 90 (thanks to the beta buffer) and auto-mentored down to 50, then went to Lavastorm, picked up the single shard quest and zoned into the Deep Forge. Attempting to /unmentor failed.* So I zoned out and did an /unmentor outside. Then I zoned back in and it automatically mentored me back down to 50.* So I zoned back out and went back to the chronomage and automentored back down to 80, and went back to the Deep Forge. As it was less than 30 mins since the instance was created I zoned back into the level 50 instance. I was already automentored to 80 and it didn't try to mentor me down any further, or if it did then it silently failed.* The zone was grey, I was able to do the shard quest, zone back out, and hand it in - earning a void shard and aa xp.* I submitted a /bug report.( EDIT: I just tried it again, and it's not quite silently fail - it says "Your level trivializes this zone. You are now mentoring to an appropriate level", but it doesn't change your mentored level. )

Gaige

02-09-2010, 10:21 PM

<cite>Pauly@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>which is more trivial between the two?my templar soloing 20 level 50 Orgres in DF for a grey shard (takes me 30 minutes)orraid geared group doing 40k+ dps clearing a lvl 80 DF zone in 15 minutes (i've seen it even faster)who trivialized it more?</blockquote>The group doing group content that cons any color besides gray.

Gaige

02-09-2010, 10:23 PM

<cite>Pauly@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>says who? Is it a heroic reward if I run the daily solo shard quest in Lavastorm until I have enough to craft an item?Just yesterday I got a legendary piece of gear from a solo named mob.. was that heroic?</blockquote>Yes, SOE has allowed you to earn a single fabled heroic reward every 150 days via the solo shard of the day quest. That is intended. Which is why it takes like 50x longer to solo for the rewards than it does group for them.However its obvious SOE would rather players group up for shards since doing so is way faster. Its also obvious players know this and instead of solo'ing for shards the slow way as intended, they exploit every zone that scales so they can tilt the rewards in their favor via exploit.Solo named drop solo rewards, I told you before I don't care about item tags; you're the one hung up on them.

Gaige

02-09-2010, 10:25 PM

<cite>Elftimber@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>And your point is? Its a crafted item to me. I did the TS missions till I got the recipe books, ran solo shard quests and made the item. Elitist people telling other people how they should play the game are just rude.I have looted over 50 fabled items, none from a epic mob. And I didn't need 23 people to help me. Does that make them an "epic" reward? Labels are just a way that SOE classifies items. Get over it.</blockquote>Never once did I talk about the item label, I talked about where the items came from.In this case, the elitist people telling you how you should play are SOE, and its their game and they make they rules.

Lillaanya

02-09-2010, 11:25 PM

Ok, to sum up your arguements Gaige, it really sounds like to me that, in your opinion, it is not ok to get gear by doing grey shard quests because you claim there is no work involved. Yet, on the other hand it is ok for someone to buy loot rights from you, or quest updates from you for plat. The problem with your arguement is that in the second instance, they are not doing any more than in the first, except that it is made ok by giving you (or other raiders) plat. Not a very strong arguement.

Morghus

02-09-2010, 11:33 PM

<cite>Lillaanya wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ok, to sum up your arguements Gaige, it really sounds like to me that, in your opinion, it is not ok to get gear by doing grey shard quests because you claim there is no work involved. Yet, on the other hand it is ok for someone to buy loot rights from you, or quest updates from you for plat. The problem with your arguement is that in the second instance, they are not doing any more than in the first, except that it is made ok by giving you (or other raiders) plat. Not a very strong arguement.</blockquote>That isn't accurate. The argument as I see it is that grey shards = no real work period. Selling of raid loot = no work from the buyer aside from whatever work they put in to aquire their plat, while the seller still had to do the work in legitimately bringing the item into the game world by killing the mob as intended. Thus, as long as someone had to do the work it is legitimate.

Gaige

02-09-2010, 11:58 PM

<cite>Lillaanya wrote:</cite><blockquote>The problem with your arguement is that in the second instance, they are not doing any more than in the first, except that it is made ok by giving you (or other raiders) plat. Not a very strong arguement.</blockquote>They had to do *something* for the plat and I and my raidforce put in the work doing the content as intended in order to acquire the loot to sell.That is what plat exists for, btw, bartering for things you want that other players/npc have.

Hamervelder

02-10-2010, 12:34 AM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Pauly@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>which is more trivial between the two?my templar soloing 20 level 50 Orgres in DF for a grey shard (takes me 30 minutes)orraid geared group doing 40k+ dps clearing a lvl 80 DF zone in 15 minutes (i've seen it even faster)who trivialized it more?</blockquote>The group doing group content that cons any color besides gray.</blockquote>Negative. Folks in raid gear trivialize content far more than folks in T1 and T2 gear graying out instances by 20 or 30 levels.

Dreyco

02-10-2010, 12:36 AM

The reason that people were doing grey shards to begin with was due to the accessibility of the TSO Expansion, which will be a moot point come sentinel's fate, as they are making most of the zones accessible and doable by players who aren't in full fabled.TSO... only a handful could be done in past legendary gear. The rest had to have at least T2, and even 1/4th of them required full fabled.. which was somewhat silly.Being that all zones can be played by all players? The need to grey shard will go away...The reason they are doing this is to prevent it from happening in the future when they DO make the need to do it go away.

Cusashorn

02-10-2010, 12:46 AM

I stopped caring about shard armor back when I earned enough through grouping (and the lavastorm solo quest) to get a full set of T2.What bothers me the most is that TSF is going to increase the levels of TSO zones so that they will continue to remain a challenge. There are still numerous collection quests I haven't completed because I'm not rich enough to pay 83 platinum for one piece of a 16 piece collection quest.There are still a few zones I haven't even been allowed to enter yet because I can't get a group for them. I would like to explore them and see what they're like without worry of getting one-shotted by the first mob at the zone in. There's nothing exploitive about discovery locations, collection quests, or just taking in the sights, sounds, and all around atmosphere of a dungeon.As for the Solo aspect in an MMO that I saw someone comment on: MMORPGs are social games. Why shouldn't we be allowed to chat with other people and still continue to play the game without their involvement? I know the very concept of an MMORPG is for people to get together and cooperate to achieve their goals, but some people just arn't that type of player. They want to play and enjoy the environments by themselves, but still want to talk with others at the same time.

Gaige

02-10-2010, 01:01 AM

<cite>Elhonas@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Negative. Folks in raid gear trivialize content far more than folks in T1 and T2 gear graying out instances by 20 or 30 levels.</blockquote>I guess you'd need to read what a gray mob's con window says to know the real answer. I find it pretty humorous that you think raid gear > 30 levels though.

missing_peace

02-10-2010, 01:54 AM

The problem is that this change affects way more than just TSO shard earning zones. If the purpose of this change is to remove the possibily of greying out an instance and then earning rewards which should not be available at the lowered level of the zone then there are less intrusive and disruptive ways to accomplish this.

Despak

02-10-2010, 04:34 AM

<cite>Elhonas@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Pauly@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>which is more trivial between the two?my templar soloing 20 level 50 Orgres in DF for a grey shard (takes me 30 minutes)orraid geared group doing 40k+ dps clearing a lvl 80 DF zone in 15 minutes (i've seen it even faster)who trivialized it more?</blockquote>The group doing group content that cons any color besides gray.</blockquote>Negative. Folks in raid gear trivialize content far more than folks in T1 and T2 gear graying out instances by 20 or 30 levels.</blockquote>The raiders at least did the content as intended instead of cheating (yes cheating).Grey shards should have been removed ages ago and the pathetic tossers that used this method should have their shards, exp etc stripped from them. If you can't play without cheating, don't play.

Terreciel

02-10-2010, 06:41 AM

The raiders who paid larger stronger guilds for the right to join raids to get mythical weapon updates and gear so that they could be capable of also raiding those zones and charge people for mythical updates and drops? Those raiders?A raid might earn its loot, but the person they call in for a single kill-update or to loot a chest didn't do anything to deserve that loot, other than accumulate plat.I've run grey shard runs. Why is my 20-30 minutes of work for a single shard trivial but the high-end fabled groups who can blow through an instance in 15 minutes (for more than 1 shard, I might add) not trivial?The only way to get geared up enough to be able to join groups doing appropriately-leveled instances was to do grey instances (and then, later, Sony finally added the solo instance of the day). It's almost impossible to get into a raiding guild without already having the equipment to raid. It's also not always possible to get a group to do instances when one can play.I agree with those who think this is a draconian measure. Take away the AA, the exp, but leave the ability to get solo shards. I changed servers and I haven't even hit 75 yet, let alone had time to stock up on enough shards to fully equip all my chars. I don't expect to be 90 in two weeks.

Whilhelmina

02-10-2010, 07:13 AM

Back on topic after some testing... It affects all auto-scaling instances, which includes live events and Shards of Love. Good luck with the corrival next year.

Dharken

02-10-2010, 11:43 AM

Wow, i'm impressed that with all the back and forth this thread hasn't desolved into mud-slinging... Cheers on that...But with all these points I still dont see why people who stick to solo content (for whatever reason) should be limited to a single shard quest a day? Honestly I'd love to run each of these TSO instances, even level, as solo content... Dont give me the 40% repeat quest xp... as I've said before... that's just foolish anyway. Other rewards? 15g and a shard? at level the cash is nothing and i'd still have to run the instance to get it which would take time and effort.Wouldnt this solve both sides of the debate?

Yimway

02-10-2010, 12:05 PM

<cite>Lillaanya wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ok, to sum up your arguements Gaige, it really sounds like to me that, in your opinion, it is not ok to get gear by doing grey shard quests because you claim there is no work involved. Yet, on the other hand it is ok for someone to buy loot rights from you, or quest updates from you for plat. </blockquote>Yes, that sums it up.Rewards for content are intended to only enter the game by players killing the spawns at color and not trivializing them by the game rules (raiding a heroic named by exampled).Once the item enters the game world by the intended content being taken down by the intended audience level, it is up to the players to decide how the rewards are distributed.It really isn't a difficult concept to get.When items/xp/coin enter the game world outside the intended con to player ruleset, it is an exploit, and it eventually gets fixed.

Obadiah

02-10-2010, 12:25 PM

<cite>harken wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wow, i'm impressed that with all the back and forth this thread hasn't desolved into mud-slinging... Cheers on that...But with all these points I still dont see why people who stick to solo content (for whatever reason) should be limited to a single shard quest a day? Honestly I'd love to run each of these TSO instances, even level, as solo content... Dont give me the 40% repeat quest xp... as I've said before... that's just foolish anyway. Other rewards? 15g and a shard? at level the cash is nothing and i'd still have to run the instance to get it which would take time and effort.Wouldnt this solve both sides of the debate?</blockquote>Never going to solve it for everyone. Someone would have an issue with whatever solution was presented.A solo version of some of these would have been fantastic while LFG, even if it didn't give a shard or gave a CHANCE at one. Much less hassle. But I wouldn't like your solution because you said "don't give me the 40% repeat quest XP" which for me was what grey shards were all about. To heck with the shards, this was the most worthwhile solo content from 75 up. It was the ONLY solo content once you finished the RoK and Moors quests. If the existing solo shard quest gave any noticable amount of AA/XP, it would have been great. As it stands, I can't imagine running that ever when you can do all 3 Befallen zones in the same amount of time.I can honestly say that when I did them it had nothing to do with shards; I had more than I needed before I did my first grey shard run. It was always about the AA (and XP for level 75+ toons) and even moreso after they made them worth 4x as much. That really sealed it. If there were ANY repeatable solo content worth half of the XP one of these was worth ... maybe even 25% ... I would have done that instead. But all repeatable solo content is worth 0.Personally I like the way they've fixed it and still wish they'd done it over a year ago. Green shards > Grey shards anyway since you get XP for kills and AA for named mobs and potentially drops worth a spot of cash. At level shard zones are even better, of course. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />

Chikkin

02-10-2010, 12:57 PM

what green shards? unless the spread of levels within a group will make some mobs green ( I doubt it and even then not to everybody in group) all those scaling zones will be now blue, white, yellow and orange

Terron

02-10-2010, 01:31 PM

<cite>Horgana@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm pretty sure everyone stopped farming Labs for Relic armor the day RoK was released</blockquote>There was still an occational run - some of the relic gear was very good for appearance.

Bridgeplay

02-10-2010, 01:41 PM

Unmentoring in scaleable instances has been a part of EQ2 since the introduction of the Splitpaw Saga in 2005. What's changed is that the TSO expansion made "Selling Looting Rights" a dominant way of obtaining gear. Grey quest shards have been in the game for 15 months and were known in Beta before TSO was released. Unmentoring isn't an exploit. For real exploits SOE brings the servers down right away and fixes it, like they did last week.Nerfing unmentoring in scaleable instances isn't going to increase the sales for players who are "Selling Looting Rights." It's going to cost SOE customers as EQ2 continues to become a raid-centric game that offers less and less to non-raiding customers.

Obadiah

02-10-2010, 01:42 PM

<cite>Terron@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Horgana@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm pretty sure everyone stopped farming Labs for Relic armor the day RoK was released</blockquote>There was still an occational run - some of the relic gear was very good for appearance.</blockquote>Annihilation set is still my favorite tbh.<cite>Chikkin wrote:</cite><blockquote>what green shards? unless the spread of levels within a group will make some mobs green ( I doubt it and even then not to everybody in group) all those scaling zones will be now blue, white, yellow and orange</blockquote>Mentor to 70 + set zone + unmentor = Green Shards. It doesn't force you back to 80 since it doesn't "trivialize" the zone.

Geothe

02-10-2010, 02:06 PM

<cite>Bridgeplay wrote:</cite><blockquote>Unmentoring in scaleable instances has been a part of EQ2 since the introduction of the Splitpaw Saga in 2005. What's changed is that the TSO expansion made "Selling Looting Rights" a dominant way of obtaining gear. Grey quest shards have been in the game for 15 months and were known in Beta before TSO was released. Unmentoring isn't an exploit. For real exploits SOE brings the servers down right away and fixes it, like they did last week.</blockquote>if Grey shards wasn't an exploit, then why did SoE call it an exploit?LOLEdit:In fact, Kiara even stated:"This is an exploit and we are currently working on a fix for it.I'd suggest not doing it. Whilst you won't have the shards you've gotten via this method removed, it is something we are actively working on removing from the game."Seems pretty cut and dry to me.

Obadiah

02-10-2010, 02:21 PM

<cite>Geothe wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bridgeplay wrote:</cite><blockquote>Unmentoring in scaleable instances has been a part of EQ2 since the introduction of the Splitpaw Saga in 2005. What's changed is that the TSO expansion made "Selling Looting Rights" a dominant way of obtaining gear. Grey quest shards have been in the game for 15 months and were known in Beta before TSO was released. Unmentoring isn't an exploit. For real exploits SOE brings the servers down right away and fixes it, like they did last week.</blockquote>if Grey shards wasn't an exploit, then why did SoE call it an exploit?LOLEdit:In fact, Kiara even stated:"This is an exploit and we are currently working on a fix for it.I'd suggest not doing it. Whilst you won't have the shards you've gotten via this method removed, it is something we are actively working on removing from the game."Seems pretty cut and dry to me.</blockquote>Of course she then stated:"Whilst grey shard runs are technically an exploit (in that we did not intend for the content to be used in this way) it's been part of gameplay for long enough that changing things now would simply be punishing to our players and a major buzz kill.Going forward we're going to do our best to ensure that we prevent stuff like this, but we won't be "breaking" the current dynamic."As it turns out both statements contain falsehoods ... or things that were true at the time but became untrue.In the TSO beta they stated that this was not an exploit. You didn't get the chance at loot drops by doing these, they still required time and (at the time) a low level toon that couldn't do the mission themselves, and that was enough of a penalty. The truth changes.

Valdaglerion

02-10-2010, 05:58 PM

Personally - kudos to SOE for fixing this!The problems with it go deeper . . IE if people are getting shards then there must be no problem with the overscripted overpowered mobs which cant be taken down until after you have better gear than they were intended for. Now the mechanics are fixed it removes several abuses and will give them better information by which to gauge future mob balancing and tweaking.Next thing which needs to be addressed is loot rights and no, Atan, I dont buy into the whole thing that once someone kills a mob its up to the players to determine how it gets distributed. If that was the case, NO-TRADE wouldnt exist (which by the way, I am all for removing).So . . one of two things needs to occur IMO, remove the stupid No-Trade tag from all the gear (which would be my preference) OR enforce loot rights - if you arent in the group/raid that killed the mob and in the zone when the chest drops you cant loot it. Want to gear up your alts, play them so they are able to kill the mobs. Want to sell loot, sell raid spots and make people kill the mobs with you. Both of those are healthier options for the game IMO.

Lexli

02-10-2010, 06:18 PM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lillaanya wrote:</cite><blockquote>The problem with your arguement is that in the second instance, they are not doing any more than in the first, except that it is made ok by giving you (or other raiders) plat. Not a very strong arguement.</blockquote>They had to do *something* for the plat and I and my raidforce put in the work doing the content as intended in order to acquire the loot to sell.That is what plat exists for, btw, bartering for things you want that other players/npc have.</blockquote>Gaige hit the nail on the head here. What it really boils down to in an MMO is time spent. To buy an item, somebody had to put in the time to make the plat. Somebody else had to put in the time to get the item. Time is essentially traded for time in the transaction. The real loser in all this is the guy buying the item, as it took far less time for the raiders to get the gear than that person did making the plat (in most cases, and this is not including time learning stats, etc).Graying out shard instances should have been patched like this in the first week of the TSO xpac. The only problem here is one of perception - SoE allowed it to continue, so now it is considered 'acceptable'.

Gaige

02-10-2010, 06:18 PM

<cite>Artemiz@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Next thing which needs to be addressed is loot rights and no, Atan, I dont buy into the whole thing that once someone kills a mob its up to the players to determine how it gets distributed. If that was the case, NO-TRADE wouldnt exist (which by the way, I am all for removing).</blockquote>No-trade exists for after the item is in your inventory, not while its in the chest; that is why you have to confirm that you want to loot the no-trade item before its removed from the chest. SOE is telling you that after you loot the item and its part of your inventory, you will not be allowed to trade it.

ke'la

02-10-2010, 06:24 PM

Gaige

02-10-2010, 06:31 PM

They can't fix it without screwing over alts or guild members who are sitting because the way they design raids excludes classes for certain encounters while emphasizing others.

Treana

02-10-2010, 10:10 PM

I just spent an hour reading all the posts on this thread. Everyone has a seemingly legit reason behind this intended change to the currently active "loop-hole" regarinding the greying out of instance thru mentoring down, then unmentoring. I have never complained on these forums about anything that has gone on with the game since it went live. But here is my first "complaint"!I solo 85-90% of the time when I am in game. This is not by choice, but due to the demnds of real life, I am often called AFK.sometimes for a few minutes, and sometimes the few minutes turn into 15 - 20 minutes. I can not impose my real life AFK times on other players in a group or a raid. Due to this, i have accpeted that I will probably never see my Myth weapon, and I will miss alot of fun game content. I am not the only player that is in this this "casual, but addicted player catagory.Just addressing the TSO shard armor shard quests and the advantage of being able to "grey out" those instances for players like me. I currenlty have 8 level 80 character on two servers. None and I mean NONE of them can solo all the TSO shard instances, even if they are greyed out to level 50. There are certain quests that can be soloed in some of the so named "easy" instances (Deep Forge, Scion of Ice, and Caverns of the Affilicted). I am sure anyone reading this thread understands what I am talking about. Oh yes, there is the solo shard quest, and with six level 80's on AB server I can now get 6 shards a day doing that. Lets see, 112 shards for T2 armor = 20 days, plus the 8 days it takes to get the T1 armor. Time? I did a test today, and it took about 20 minutes for each alt to do the solo shard quest = 2 hours. I acutally spent over 6-7 hours in game today just getting shards via self mentoring or grouping with a level 50+ to grey out the zone and I actually got a total of 15 shards. I now have enough shards to either put my lvl 80 Berserker in T2 armor, or get T1 armor for 2 of my casters. I love playing all my alts, I enjoy the variety of the different play tactics needed for each one. But I also enjoy doing the quests, live events tradeskilling, and all the rest. I just don't want to be spending more time getting shards than it all ready takes. I am looking forward to SF for all my alts, and shard armor will definately help their surviving the challenges in this upcoming expansion.I honestly feel that changing/altering/removing this so called "loophole/exploit" does nothing to improve, level, equalize the game. It will only reduce the ability of alot of players to have a better game playing experience

Valdaglerion

02-11-2010, 12:05 AM

<cite>Treana wrote:</cite><blockquote>I just spent an hour reading all the posts on this thread. Everyone has a seemingly legit reason behind this intended change to the currently active "loop-hole" regarinding the greying out of instance thru mentoring down, then unmentoring. I have never complained on these forums about anything that has gone on with the game since it went live. But here is my first "complaint"!I solo 85-90% of the time when I am in game. This is not by choice, but due to the demnds of real life, I am often called AFK.sometimes for a few minutes, and sometimes the few minutes turn into 15 - 20 minutes. I can not impose my real life AFK times on other players in a group or a raid. Due to this, i have accpeted that I will probably never see my Myth weapon, and I will miss alot of fun game content. I am not the only player that is in this this "casual, but addicted player catagory.Just addressing the TSO shard armor shard quests and the advantage of being able to "grey out" those instances for players like me. I currenlty have 8 level 80 character on two servers. None and I mean NONE of them can solo all the TSO shard instances, even if they are greyed out to level 50. There are certain quests that can be soloed in some of the so named "easy" instances (Deep Forge, Scion of Ice, and Caverns of the Affilicted). I am sure anyone reading this thread understands what I am talking about. Oh yes, there is the solo shard quest, and with six level 80's on AB server I can now get 6 shards a day doing that. Lets see, 112 shards for T2 armor = 20 days, plus the 8 days it takes to get the T1 armor. Time? I did a test today, and it took about 20 minutes for each alt to do the solo shard quest = 2 hours. I acutally spent over 6-7 hours in game today just getting shards via self mentoring or grouping with a level 50+ to grey out the zone and I actually got a total of 15 shards. I now have enough shards to either put my lvl 80 Berserker in T2 armor, or get T1 armor for 2 of my casters. I love playing all my alts, I enjoy the variety of the different play tactics needed for each one. But I also enjoy doing the quests, live events tradeskilling, and all the rest. I just don't want to be spending more time getting shards than it all ready takes. I am looking forward to SF for all my alts, and shard armor will definately help their surviving the challenges in this upcoming expansion.I honestly feel that changing/altering/removing this so called "loophole/exploit" does nothing to improve, level, equalize the game. It will only reduce the ability of alot of players to have a better game playing experience</blockquote>1) You dont need shard gear to solo, period. I completed Rok in gear I gained from EoF, yes all the way to 80 and completed all teh questing in TSO in gear from rok questing solo'ed toons. This is not my primary play style but I have alts I solo with and to be perfectly honest I have an 80 fury that is still in gear PRE-Rok and soloed her through TSO amazingly.2) If you dont play heroic or raid content which by your own statements you dont seem to, you are wasting your time chasing gear you dont need to accomplish your playstyle.Not being argumentative, just stating a fact. I have level 1-25 toons that are master crafters that are capable of doing all the live events, tradeskilling, learning tactics etc. They are nowhere near shard gear level.Yes I have varied playstyles, I raid, I craft, I quest, etc but its important to look at your playstyle and determine what is needed. Honestly, if you arent doing shard zones and raiding TSO, you dont need TSO shard gear, ROK gear is actually better for zones outside of those.And running grey content isnt fun. Honestly, can you say that you have fun killing a bunch of grey mobs for hours with no hope of progressing your toon beyond getting a shard to buy gear you dont need?Just my thoughts on it anyway. When they said they werent going to "fix" grey shards previously it was stated they were going to keep it from happening again . . . so here we are, why are people surprised its been corrected? Consider yourself fortunate they allowed it this long.

Obadiah

02-11-2010, 12:14 AM

<cite>Treana wrote:</cite><blockquote>I honestly feel that changing/altering/removing this so called "loophole/exploit" does nothing to improve, level, equalize the game. It will only reduce the ability of alot of players to have a better game playing experience</blockquote>I think you'll be fine. I say this as one who has done more grey shards than I care to remember. Even did a few on a Defiler.<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" /> Anyway, you don't want or need void shard gear anymore. The ONLY thing there is left to gain by this "loophole" is adventure XP.Personally, I'm glad I can't do this anymore because if I could I would. But from what I've seen there's plenty to do for that in SF.I still say, they just need to make more REPEATABLE solo content worth doing (because no matter how much 1-time content there is it's done in 1 day). And by worth doing, I don't mean you get payoff ONLY after doing 500 Rime repeatables. And I don't mean 10 minutes for one shard and NO AA. I mean worth doing. In TSO, if the solo shard mission was worth say, HALF the AA of grey shards, and didn't give you a shard, I would have done it. As it stood though, it's total garbage and was a waste of developer time. But I feel your pain ... there wasn't anything to do solo for ... well ... anything. Nevermind gear. There was nothing.

Armawk

02-11-2010, 02:08 AM

<cite>Artemiz@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>1) You dont need shard gear to solo, period. I completed Rok in gear I gained from EoF, yes all the way to 80 and completed all teh questing in TSO in gear from rok questing solo'ed toons. This is not my primary play style but I have alts I solo with and to be perfectly honest I have an 80 fury that is still in gear PRE-Rok and soloed her through TSO amazingly.2) If you dont play heroic or raid content which by your own statements you dont seem to, you are wasting your time chasing gear you dont need to accomplish your playstyle.</blockquote>I think you are missing a point.. YOU have alts that group this content, and can any time solo content is burned out go play those. For players who only solo (Im not one, I play maybe 70% duo, 15% solo, 15% group) there is a great dearth of content at cap level. This sort of stuff proivides something to do and work towards and a way to see cool content you would otherwise not get to see. All probably a non issue going forward of course!Its not about need its about having fun things to do.Thats all aside from players wanting to move to grouping who DO need this stuff to not be pariahs.

Cusashorn

02-11-2010, 03:47 AM

If this whole thing is to prevent people from getting 40% XP per day to level up to 90 increadibly fast, then why don't they just remove the XP from the shard missions themselves?

Lethe5683

02-11-2010, 04:01 AM

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>If this whole thing is to prevent people from getting 40% XP per day to level up to 90 increadibly fast, then why don't they just remove the XP from the shard missions themselves?</blockquote>I can tell you I'm going to be leveling up a heck of a lot faster than that when the expansion comes out and that has nothing to do with shard quests.

Seolta

02-11-2010, 07:05 AM

Ok, time to play devil's advocate:IMO there is an important underlying issue here, which is a lack of options for leaders of "alt armies" to gear up their toons.In TSO those people were essentially forced by SOE into the upgrade path of shard armor. This was due to drop rates, itemization quality, encounter difficulty and etc. Shard gear was the only effective way to put a number of toons into reasonable quality gear for most group encounters. Not only that, but shard gear was a required component for the ultimate upgrade level many of these toons could reasonably attain which was...more shard armor!These same people were faced with the classic min/max proposition of spending all their time grinding out shards at level (of which you can only do so many in the day due to time restrictions) or greatly improving their efficiency by running grey, thus enabling them to gear up a multitude of toons and actually have time left to enjoy the content of the expansion before the next expansion was released.IMO SOE needs to get away from this gaming on rails concept with the forced adoption of shard armor for lowbie toons and substantially increase the quality of MC gear and the drop rate of reasonable legendary armor in game in order to provide multiple upgrade paths. Ie. don't just close the loop-hole, but address the only semi-legit reason people had for availing themselves of said loop-hole. Disclaimer: I don't own an "alt army" and i'm also happy to see the grey run exp earning loop-hole closed.

MurFalad

02-11-2010, 08:17 AM

<cite>Seolta@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>In TSO those people were essentially forced by SOE into the upgrade path of shard armor. This was due to drop rates, itemization quality, encounter difficulty and etc.</blockquote>Definitely agree at least for dungeon content, its not a bad thing but its just the way the game is designed since you can upgrade shard armour and it has set bonuses while legendaries lack either.<cite>eolta@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>These same people were faced with the classic min/max proposition of spending all their time grinding out shards at level (of which you can only do so many in the day due to time restrictions) or greatly improving their efficiency by running grey, thus enabling them to gear up a multitude of toons and actually have time left to enjoy the content of the expansion before the next expansion was released.</blockquote>I think that while grey runs were tempting (even though extremely boring imo) for the first level 80 character I didn't consider them really after I felt ready for instances like Deep Forge (as a tank I needed a certain level of gear too, and I was below the level cap for Rise of Kunark so missed out gearing there).I could handle DF just about in 72 MC gear and a good healer, (we could get 2 shards every time, just that the end boss was a bit harder and that made it all the sweeter to fully clear). And with the cost of a full set of T1 being very reasonable I honestly think there was no justification for running grey runs at that point, its an exploit just like peeking and poking a value on your Spectrum 48k to give yourself infinite ammo.Given the choice some people will always cheat like this, even if the process of cheating is extremely boring (I did a couple of runs and can confirm that!), this loophole needed closing for sure as much for the sake of the players enjoyment as for the games health.<cite>eolta@Unrest wrote:</cite> <blockquote>IMO SOE needs to get away from this gaming on rails concept with the forced adoption of shard armor for lowbie toons and substantially increase the quality of MC gear and the drop rate of reasonable legendary armor in game in order to provide multiple upgrade paths. Ie. don't just close the loop-hole, but address the only semi-legit reason people had for availing themselves of said loop-hole. Disclaimer: I don't own an "alt army" and i'm also happy to see the grey run exp earning loop-hole closed.</blockquote> Hmm, I think legendaries drop at a good rate already in dungeons, probably too fast with the way my bank is bulging with them for my alts (great system of heirlooms by the way), I would say though that the legendaries were a bit underpowered as gear from say a easy instance should be intended to be enough to use for a medium instance, where it feels instead like the shard armour was the only route/viable choice.On a different note, something I don't want to see, I don't mind an item being good and only treasured, I don't want to see though that everything that drops is labelled "Fabled" just because it sounds good, instead I'd like to see that only for the rare stuff.Low level toons could already get 40 or so shards handed to them by their high level main and get a full set of T1 which is more then enough to be able to handle instances on their own. As for MC gear its a bit too good I think, at least for the crazy low price I paid for the rares to make it (<2 plat!) and allowed me to just about hold my own in a easy dungeon. Perhaps though they should have 1-2 more Deep forge level dungeons in the game and a multiple level shard system for gear (where high level gear needs X of a special shard, but still Y of the low level one).

feldon30

02-11-2010, 12:05 PM

A point worth making in this thread is that one of the issues facing players has been that level 72 Mastercrafted armor ill-prepares a player for any of the content from level 75-80. The Mastercrafted armor in Sentinel's Fate is, I believe, level 84 gear and similar in stats to Shard gear.

Kizee

02-11-2010, 12:11 PM

<cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite><blockquote>A point worth making in this thread is that one of the issues facing players has been that level 72 Mastercrafted armor ill-prepares a player for any of the content from level 75-80. The Mastercrafted armor in Sentinel's Fate is, I believe, level 84 gear and similar in stats to Shard gear.</blockquote>It doesn't ? Worked fine for me. /shrugMaybe this will be the case AFTER SF launces since I don't think any of the old amor is getting an upgrade because of the stat consolidation.On a side note... I can't believe that people are actually complaining that its unfair that they are fixing this exploit. It was pretty obvious that it wasn't intended to get shards this way.

Treana

02-11-2010, 01:42 PM

ouch, here I go posting again, and not with praises for the EQ2 team like I normally do. (But EQ2 team you are doing a fantastic job <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> after over 5 years I have yet to become bored with this game.. an all time record for me <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> !)I just perused some of the posts on this thread, again, and have some concerns over some players posts.1. Many mention how easy it is for low level alts can be equipped with shard armor by a higher level alt. Shard armor is level 80 armor, so how can low level alts be equipped with it?2 Several players metnioned how easy it is for them to get armor from dungeons, is that when they are soloing or in a group and they carry the lucky dice to win the armor? My warden has gone to WoE six times, and came out empty handed each time.3. Also several responses seemed to stem from someone who plays one kind of class..melee. I play a level 80 Bererker and a level 80 Monk, and they both have benefited from having at least T1 Shard armor and I know that T2 shard armor will only increase their survivablity for soloing or grouping. My main, a level 80 Warden has definatley had an increase in survival with her T2 shard armor and jewelary. (Note: I also have all 9 trades at Master level so all my alts are equipped with the best gear, spells, CA's that can be crafted, if not better like legendary +) I also have a Conji, Warlock and Wizzie at level 80, and 4 other classes in the 70's. Soling the variety of different classes, I fully understand how my warden can solo a specific mob, whle my Berserker faces certain death. The shard armor gives stats specific to class and a good boost to that class's survivablity. 4. Finally, several posts seemingly proposed that if they did it their way (played the game) then everyone else should do the same. Once of the reasons I am so addicted to EQ2, is that it allows for different play styles. However, I am seeing a slow trend in the game to lean more to the desires high end raiders, and to those who are commonly refferred to as WoW converts. 5. Finally, I know for a fact that many, many players, casual and soloers do not bother (perhaps do not have the time) to read much last comment on these forums. Perhaps it would behoove SOE to survey ALL their players to see what the feelings are about proposed changes. Seems they listened to raiders about the fighter class changes that were planned.Again long winded here. but this issue has caused me concern, not just about the shard issue, but the future of my being able to enjoy this game as well as those other players who aren't as vocal!

Yimway

02-11-2010, 01:50 PM

<cite>Treana wrote:</cite><blockquote>Again long winded here. but this issue has caused me concern, not just about the shard issue, but the future of my being able to enjoy this game as well as those other players who aren't as vocal!</blockquote>Your notion that its raiders who want this and raiders who are listened too is just giberish.They listened to everyone on the fighter revamp, they listened to everyone on this issue. Stop trying to drive some lightining rod around issues of raiders vs you. In my experience they listen best to people who provide well thought out perspective, hard in game data, and comprehensive vision. Raiders are just a group of players who do a particular content, if you were to actually get to know some, you would discover that within that community they break on both sides of this issue. Nothing in the raiding union by-laws states you must be against grey sharding. In fact you'll find a cross section of raiders who feel they should never be encombered with running a heroic instances to get shards or a peice of gear. As such they were for grey shards to get the shards needed to turn in raid gear (before raids dropped shards).If you want your position to be seriously viewed by your piers, I'd urge you to remove this 'class divide' of raiders vs you from your feedback.

Thunndar316

02-11-2010, 03:07 PM

People greying out shards doesn't effect me one bit. I don't do it because our regular group can clear all the Heroic TSO instances with no problems. However, I could care less if a couple people decide to grey out zones to collect a few shards and earn some AA. Once again, it doesn't effect me or the world one bit. Besides, if you think greying out zones to obtain shards is faster than running the zones normally then you are kidding yourself. Selling raid loot, on the other hand, does have an actual effect on the in game economy. If you want to sell raid loot, once again I really don't care. Just stop acting like it's not a loop hole for the intended No Trade tag. SOE won't/can't label it an exploit because there is no fix for it that would not tick off the entire raiding community, and we all know that SOE caters to their raiding community.I also laugh at the arguement that plat was "earned" in game by someone so they use it to purchase gear that was earned in raids. Most of the plat is earned, however, anybody with a credit card can punch up a website and have thousands of plat delivered in minutes if they want to. How is that earning plat? Will the next arguement be in favor of the plat farmers as well? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" />I solo, group, and raid a little in game. I don't care if casuals want to grey out shard runs for something to do and I don't care if raiders want to sell their loot to the highest bidders. Both aspects of the game are fun. What I don't like is high and mighty raiders telling the little guys how they can and can't play the game.It's all about having fun, and grey shard runs hurt absolutely no one.

Gaige

02-11-2010, 03:15 PM

<cite>Thunndar316 wrote:</cite><blockquote>we all know that SOE caters to their raiding community.</blockquote>I wish I played the EQ2 that you do.

Thunndar316

02-11-2010, 03:20 PM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Thunndar316 wrote:</cite><blockquote>we all know that SOE caters to their raiding community.</blockquote>I wish I played the EQ2 that you do.</blockquote>Missed the entire TSO expansion did we?

Obadiah

02-11-2010, 03:26 PM

<cite>Thunndar316 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Besides, if you think greying out zones to obtain shards is faster than running the zones normally then you are kidding yourself.</blockquote>I've been in a lot of groups, but I've yet to find one that can do missions in each Befallen zone twice in 15 minutes.<cite>Thunndar316 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Thunndar316 wrote:</cite><blockquote>we all know that SOE caters to their raiding community.</blockquote>I wish I played the EQ2 that you do.</blockquote>Missed the entire TSO expansion did we?</blockquote>Raided since EoF. TSO was fantastic in every sense EXCEPT x4 raiding.Loot sales have nothing to do with raider vs. non-raider. Nor do they have anything to do with grey shards. Nor do grey shards have anything to do with raider vs. non-raider. It's a shortcut for quick XP from 80-90 that shouldn't exist.

Gaige

02-11-2010, 03:35 PM

<cite>Thunndar316 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Missed the entire TSO expansion did we?</blockquote>TSO? Was that the one where all contested raid content was rehashed old content whose entire loot tables were nerfed? Was it the one that featured rewards that were barely better than stuff out of WoE, despite the content being a lot harder? Or perhaps it was the one that went live with numerous named broken and buggy for months at a time?I keep forgetting.Maybe it was the one where heroic instances outnumbered raid instances FIVE to one? Was it the one where some of the best gear in the game, gear that survived the nerf bat, came from heroic encounters? Or was it the one that featured an entirely solo overland continent?

Thunndar316

02-11-2010, 03:53 PM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Thunndar316 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Missed the entire TSO expansion did we?</blockquote>TSO? Was that the one where all contested raid content was rehashed old content whose entire loot tables were nerfed? Was it the one that featured rewards that were barely better than stuff out of WoE, despite the content being a lot harder? Or perhaps it was the one that went live with numerous named broken and buggy for months at a time?I keep forgetting.Maybe it was the one where heroic instances outnumbered raid instances FIVE to one? Was it the one where some of the best gear in the game, gear that survived the nerf bat, came from heroic encounters? Or was it the one that featured an entirely solo overland continent?</blockquote>The same expansion where those "Heroic" encounters included raid scripting and required specific classes because they would be too easy for people sporting VP gear?If T4 is "barely" better than WoE gear then why are guilds still trying to farm out all the T4 they can before SF launches? Surely the new shard gear will be better than T4 since the T3 is almost as good right? Nope, not even close. The only thing that will replace that T4 gear is the new SF raid gear and some are even debating that.You are also refering to Heroic as some of the best gear in the game? Not even close.An ENTIRELY solo overland content with a whopping 100 quests <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" /> That [Removed for Content] near got me 3-4 AA's <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/49869fe8223507d7223db3451e5321aa.gif" border="0" />

Skywarrior

02-11-2010, 03:54 PM

Skywarrior

02-11-2010, 03:59 PM

<cite>Thunndar316 wrote:</cite><blockquote>The same expansion where those "Heroic" encounters included raid scripting and required specific classes because they would be too easy for people sporting VP gear?</blockquote>lol. Yep, I was right. He posted this while I was typing my last post. Emphasis added by me.

Thunndar316

02-11-2010, 04:01 PM

<cite>Kurgan@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>I've been in a lot of groups, but I've yet to find one that can do missions in each Befallen zone twice in 15 minutes.Raided since EoF. TSO was fantastic in every sense EXCEPT x4 raiding.Loot sales have nothing to do with raider vs. non-raider. Nor do they have anything to do with grey shards. Nor do grey shards have anything to do with raider vs. non-raider. It's a shortcut for quick XP from 80-90 that shouldn't exist.</blockquote>You only get 1 shard from doing that grey zone.I've cleared Deep Forge in ten minutes. 2 shards, next. People mostly use grey shard runs for AA. The same way they do grey quests for AA. Is that an exploit too?

Obadiah

02-11-2010, 04:03 PM

<cite>Thunndar316 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kurgan@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>I've been in a lot of groups, but I've yet to find one that can do missions in each Befallen zone twice in 15 minutes.Raided since EoF. TSO was fantastic in every sense EXCEPT x4 raiding.Loot sales have nothing to do with raider vs. non-raider. Nor do they have anything to do with grey shards. Nor do grey shards have anything to do with raider vs. non-raider. It's a shortcut for quick XP from 80-90 that shouldn't exist.</blockquote>You only get 1 shard from doing that grey zone.I've cleared Deep Forge in ten minutes. 2 shards, next. People mostly use grey shard runs for AA. The same way they do grey quests for AA. Is that an exploit too? </blockquote>Befallen is 3 zones. That's 6 shards + 80-90% AA.If the quests lowered to level 50 and offered comparable AA to a level 50 quest, it would not be an exploit. Killing a level 54 mob to complete a level 80-85 quest ... yeah I'd have to classify that as an exploit.

Thunndar316

02-11-2010, 04:04 PM

<cite>Skywarrior wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Thunndar316 wrote:</cite><blockquote>The same expansion where those "Heroic" encounters included raid scripting and required specific classes because they would be too easy for people sporting VP gear?</blockquote>lol. Yep, I was right. He posted this while I was typing my last post. Emphasis added by me.</blockquote>That's exactly what they are. 1 group raids. Not near as difficult as x4, duh. Still it's the same concept just dialed down.

Thunndar316

02-11-2010, 04:08 PM

<cite>Kurgan@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Thunndar316 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kurgan@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>I've been in a lot of groups, but I've yet to find one that can do missions in each Befallen zone twice in 15 minutes.Raided since EoF. TSO was fantastic in every sense EXCEPT x4 raiding.Loot sales have nothing to do with raider vs. non-raider. Nor do they have anything to do with grey shards. Nor do grey shards have anything to do with raider vs. non-raider. It's a shortcut for quick XP from 80-90 that shouldn't exist.</blockquote>You only get 1 shard from doing that grey zone.I've cleared Deep Forge in ten minutes. 2 shards, next. People mostly use grey shard runs for AA. The same way they do grey quests for AA. Is that an exploit too? </blockquote>Befallen is 3 zones. That's 6 shards + 80-90% AA.If the quests lowered to level 50 and offered comparable AA to a level 50 quest, it would not be an exploit. Killing a level 54 mob to complete a level 80-85 quest ... yeah I'd have to classify that as an exploit.</blockquote>3 grey zones = 3 shards. Have no idea where you are getting 6 from. I can finish three instances faster than you can grey them out, mentor, unmentor, zone in, zone out, chrono down, ect.Most quests require you kill something in the zone. It's not like you can just walk in and out all day collecting shards. There are lockout timers and minimum lockout timers. You can only do the quest once per day per toon. Now im sure you have a million alts and 3 box but for most this is not the case.Also 80-90% AA? How many AA do you have 100? If you are anywhere near the 200 cap the most you get is 5%. There are better/faster ways to get AA and shards than greying them out.

Obadiah

02-11-2010, 04:11 PM

<cite>Thunndar316 wrote:</cite><blockquote>3 grey zones = 3 shards. Have no idea where you are getting 6 from. I can finish three instances faster than you can grey them out, mentor, unmentor, zone in, zone out, chrono down, ect.Also 80-90% AA? How many AA do you have 100? If you are anywhere near the 200 cap the most you get is 5%. There are better/faster ways to get AA and shards than greying them out.</blockquote>You have the quests from the day before. You chrono, zone into each one to set, unmentor in the last one, finish all 3 shard missions and zone out and get new ones. 15 minutes. You get ~15 for each around 180. At 197 (which is sort of near the cap) I still get 10-11% per shard mission when I turn them in.

Thunndar316

02-11-2010, 04:18 PM

<cite>Kurgan@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Thunndar316 wrote:</cite><blockquote>3 grey zones = 3 shards. Have no idea where you are getting 6 from. I can finish three instances faster than you can grey them out, mentor, unmentor, zone in, zone out, chrono down, ect.Also 80-90% AA? How many AA do you have 100? If you are anywhere near the 200 cap the most you get is 5%. There are better/faster ways to get AA and shards than greying them out.</blockquote>You have the quests from the day before. You chrono, zone into each one to set, unmentor in the last one, finish all 3 shard missions and zone out and get new ones. 15 minutes. You get ~15 for each around 180. At 197 (which is sort of near the cap) I still get 10-11% per shard mission when I turn them in.</blockquote>Well I have to say that I think you are greatly exaggerating how quickly you can do these missions and how much AA you are actually getting. Not to mention you are taking two days to do this. Necrotic Asylum regularly has a mission where you have to kill many mobs down below and to get there you have to kill the bridge mob ect. They are not all that quick. Even grey those mobs can still take time.

Obadiah

02-11-2010, 04:30 PM

<cite>Thunndar316 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Well I have to say that I think you are greatly exaggerating how quickly you can do these missions and how much AA you are actually getting. Not to mention you are taking two days to do this. Necrotic Asylum regularly has a mission where you have to kill many mobs down below and to get there you have to kill the bridge mob ect. They are not all that quick. Even grey those mobs can still take time.</blockquote>Not exaggerating at all.You HAVE to do it in less than a half hour or the zones expire! I usually have 10-15 minutes left on the instance timers that I haven't "locked" by killing a named or harvesting the house item. The amount of time depends on what toon ... Troub/Defiler take longer, Nec/Zerk are pretty darn fast ... never do the zones expire. Used to do it regularly when I would come home from work for lunch.Although it transpires over the course of two days, it takes all of a minute on day 1 ... i.e. picking up the quests. And it actually yields 4 days worth of shards if you lock the zones - in which case you don't need to worry about chronomentoring on the following days.I did the DD last night (in a group) in NA on a Troub that has 197 AA. I went from 23% to 34% when I turned in the daily mission and 34% to 45% when I turned in the DD.

Skywarrior

02-11-2010, 04:30 PM

<cite>Thunndar316 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Skywarrior wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Thunndar316 wrote:</cite><blockquote>The same expansion where those "Heroic" encounters included raid scripting and required specific classes because they would be too easy for people sporting VP gear?</blockquote>lol. Yep, I was right. He posted this while I was typing my last post. Emphasis added by me.</blockquote>That's exactly what they are. 1 group raids. Not near as difficult as x4, duh. Still it's the same concept just dialed down.</blockquote>Well, I guess you could apply that definition to any encounter in the game. Where do you draw the line? The game draws it at number of players allowed to participate simultaneously and still receive credit for the encounter. There are really only two types of encounters in the game - group and raid, with 2-group and 4-group variants for the raid. Group encounters may be done by 1 to 6 characters. Raids may be done by 1 to 4 groups of 6 characters. So, as far as the game is concerned, the only real difference between a solo encounter and a x4 raid is the max number of characters allowed to participate.So basically, what you are saying is that TSO instances were too hard for you. Well, there is a leading edge and trailing edge to every Bell curve. No matter what the Devs do there will always be those who find the encounters too easy or too hard. Always. If the difficulty level is changed to suit you it will negatively impact others and vice versa. You have to get past that in order to enjoy the game or move on to something else.

EQPrime

02-11-2010, 04:36 PM

Gungo

02-11-2010, 04:40 PM

They stated from the begining that grey shard runs will get fixed in the next expansion. This is nothing new. This is fixing an exploit that some people were abusing.The new zones in SF are even easier then the zones from TSO. So really no one should have issues obtaining shards without exploiting.

Obadiah

02-11-2010, 04:51 PM

<cite>Gungo wrote:</cite><blockquote>They stated from the begining that grey shard runs will get fixed in the next expansion. This is nothing new. This is fixing an exploit that some people were abusing.The new zones in SF are even easier then the zones from TSO. So really no one should have issues obtaining shards without exploiting.</blockquote>Who said that? Kiara stated once that they were planning to remove them, then she later posted that they would NOT be removed. I don't recall anyone ever saying they were going to be fixed in the expansion.But yeah, move on to SF tbh. Good stuff.

Gaige

02-11-2010, 04:53 PM

Gungo

02-11-2010, 04:57 PM

<cite>Kurgan@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite><blockquote>They stated from the begining that grey shard runs will get fixed in the next expansion. This is nothing new. This is fixing an exploit that some people were abusing.The new zones in SF are even easier then the zones from TSO. So really no one should have issues obtaining shards without exploiting.</blockquote>Who said that? Kiara stated once that they were planning to remove them, then she later posted that they would NOT be removed. I don't recall anyone ever saying they were going to be fixed in the expansion.But yeah, move on to SF tbh. Good stuff.</blockquote>They said they were not changing it this expansion but they did say it would change next (SF) expansion.

CoLD MeTaL

02-11-2010, 04:58 PM

It will be interesting to see how many 2nd accounts go *poof* since have a 50 shard mentor was the only reason for that second account.

Gaige

02-11-2010, 04:59 PM

<cite>Thunndar316 wrote:</cite><blockquote>That's exactly what they are. 1 group raids. Not near as difficult as x4, duh. Still it's the same concept just dialed down.</blockquote>Probably why they award gear almost as good as raid gear, just dialed down.

Bridgeplay

02-11-2010, 04:59 PM

The design of the Sentinels Fate expansion is that solo players get Treasured Gear, group players get Legendary, and raiders get Fabled. Except, of course, if solo (or group) players want better gear they can still pay for "Looting Rights." Which is exactly what will happen.Nerfing unmentoring in scaleable instances (after it's been in the game for 5 years, nearly the entire existence of EQ2) is just going to drive people out of the game. It's a very bad idea.

Obadiah

02-11-2010, 05:00 PM

<cite>Gungo wrote:</cite><blockquote>They said they were not changing it this expansion but they did say it would change next (SF) expansion.</blockquote>"Whilst grey shard runs are technically an exploit (in that we did not intend for the content to be used in this way) it's been part of gameplay for long enough that changing things now would simply be punishing to our players and a major buzz kill.Going forward we're going to do our best to ensure that we prevent stuff like this, but we won't be "breaking" the current dynamic."Seems to me to say they're not changing it. I don't think a redname ever stated they would make them go away in SF until they said they were working on it in the SF beta forums themselves.

Obadiah

02-11-2010, 05:01 PM

<cite>CoLD MeTaL wrote:</cite><blockquote>It will be interesting to see how many 2nd accounts go *poof* since have a 50 shard mentor was the only reason for that second account.</blockquote>1. You never needed a level 50 toon.2. You haven't needed a shard mentor for several months.

Gaige

02-11-2010, 05:02 PM

<cite>CoLD MeTaL wrote:</cite><blockquote>It will be interesting to see how many 2nd accounts go *poof* since have a 50 shard mentor was the only reason for that second account.</blockquote>Those accounts would've been cancelled anyway once chronomagic was introduced.

Gungo

02-11-2010, 05:07 PM

<cite>Kurgan@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite><blockquote>They said they were not changing it this expansion but they did say it would change next (SF) expansion.</blockquote>"Whilst grey shard runs are technically an exploit (in that we did not intend for the content to be used in this way) it's been part of gameplay for long enough that changing things now would simply be punishing to our players and a major buzz kill.Going forward we're going to do our best to ensure that we prevent stuff like this, but we won't be "breaking" the current dynamic."Seems to me to say they're not changing it. I don't think a redname ever stated they would make them go away in SF until they said they were working on it in the SF beta forums themselves.</blockquote>Going forward means they are going to prevent it from happening in the future, but they were not going to stop the EXPLOIT currently in TSO. Of course you can take the post in whichever slighted view you want but the fact remains they ALWAYS and OBVIOUSLY intended to correct this issue in the future. Since the beginning of SF they stated they were going to prevent the EXPLOITATION of shards. Arguing that was not thier intention is moot since obviously they did change it.

Gungo

02-11-2010, 05:14 PM

<cite>Bridgeplay wrote:</cite><blockquote>The design of the Sentinels Fate expansion is that solo players get Treasured Gear, group players get Legendary, and raiders get Fabled. Except, of course, if solo (or group) players want better gear they can still pay for "Looting Rights." Which is exactly what will happen.Nerfing unmentoring in scaleable instances (after it's been in the game for 5 years, nearly the entire existence of EQ2) is just going to drive people out of the game. It's a very bad idea.</blockquote>No they designed SF so that solo content drops treasured, and heroic drops legendary, and epic drops fabled. Loosely based btw. AT the same time they increased the quality of treasured and legendary gear. There was never any intention to LIMIT soloing to treasured, grouping to heroic, or raiding to fabled. Just because you benefited personally from exploiting does not mean the exploit should not be fixed. Scalabel instances only existed in TSO and prior in splitpaw. Mentoring first appeared during KoS? Regardless the whole concept of mentoring to exploit a zone to acheive heroic experience and heroic loot circumventing the trivial loot code of the game was only abused in TSO. You only have yourself to blame for them fixing this exploit. If you didnt exploit it they wouldnt fix it.

Obadiah

02-11-2010, 05:15 PM

<cite>Gungo wrote:</cite><blockquote>Going forward means they are going to prevent it from happening in the future, but they were not going to stop the EXPLOIT currently in TSO. Of course you can take the post in whichever slighted view you want but the fact remains they ALWAYS and OBVIOUSLY intended to correct this issue in the future. Since the beginning of SF they stated they were going to prevent the EXPLOITATION of shards. Arguing that was not thier intention is moot since obviously they did change it.</blockquote>Agreed; it's moot because they changed their mind, but saying "it's been a part of gameplay for long enough that changing things now would simply be punishing to our players and a major buzzkill" and "we won't be breaking the current dynamic" is saying they aren't changing it. Period.Not "We'll be changing it in the next expansion" or "We'll change it later" but "We won't be changing it." It's not open for interpretation. They then decided on December 10th, 2009 to fix it instead. It's fine with me, I'm j ust saying it's contradictory to what Kiara posted on the open forums, so I can understand people being upset by it and more may very well be surprised by it after launch.

Bridgeplay

02-11-2010, 05:23 PM

Gungo, as I've said before I don't do grey quest shards. That you would presumptively assume that I do them pretty much defines the limits of your viewpoint.<cite>Gungo wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bridgeplay wrote:</cite><blockquote>The design of the Sentinels Fate expansion is that solo players get Treasured Gear, group players get Legendary, and raiders get Fabled. Except, of course, if solo (or group) players want better gear they can still pay for "Looting Rights." Which is exactly what will happen.Nerfing unmentoring in scaleable instances (after it's been in the game for 5 years, nearly the entire existence of EQ2) is just going to drive people out of the game. It's a very bad idea.</blockquote>No they designed SF so that solo content drops treasured, and heroic drops legendary, and epic drops fabled. Loosely based btw. AT the same time they increased the quality of treasured and legendary gear. There was never any intention to LIMIT soloing to treasured, grouping to heroic, or raiding to fabled. Just because you benefited personally from exploiting does not mean the exploit should not be fixed. Scalabel instances only existed in TSO and prior in splitpaw. Mentoring first appeared during KoS? Regardless the whole concept of mentoring to exploit a zone to acheive heroic experience and heroic loot circumventing the trivial loot code of the game was only abused in TSO. You only have yourself to blame for them fixing this exploit. If you didnt exploit it they wouldnt fix it.</blockquote>

Dulissa

02-11-2010, 05:33 PM

<cite>Kurgan@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite><blockquote>Going forward means they are going to prevent it from happening in the future, but they were not going to stop the EXPLOIT currently in TSO. Of course you can take the post in whichever slighted view you want but the fact remains they ALWAYS and OBVIOUSLY intended to correct this issue in the future. Since the beginning of SF they stated they were going to prevent the EXPLOITATION of shards. Arguing that was not thier intention is moot since obviously they did change it.</blockquote>Agreed; it's moot because they changed their mind, but saying "it's been a part of gameplay for long enough that changing things now would simply be punishing to our players and a major buzzkill" and "we won't be breaking the current dynamic" is saying they aren't changing it. Period.Not "We'll be changing it in the next expansion" or "We'll change it later" but "We won't be changing it." It's not open for interpretation. They then decided on December 10th, 2009 to fix it instead. It's fine with me, I'm j ust saying it's contradictory to what Kiara posted on the open forums, so I can understand people being upset by it and more may very well be surprised by it after launch.</blockquote>They say things that get turned around all the time. Heck someone here (or maybe it was on flames) has a sig that quotes Smed saying there will never be RTM's in EQ2. And as <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=469721" target="_blank">posted </a><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=457652" target="_blank">elsewhere</a>, Shaders 3.0 was initially going to be in in GU53...then 54...now "maybe" 55 but more likely 56(if that). The fact is, this will continue to happen. And as long as you click Accept on the User Agreement that states game play can change at will, you shouldn't be surprised by anything SoE does.

Obadiah

02-11-2010, 05:42 PM

<cite>Toressa@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>They say things that get turned around all the time. Heck someone here (or maybe it was on flames) has a sig that quotes Smed saying there will never be RTM's in EQ2. And as <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=469721" target="_blank">posted </a><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=457652" target="_blank">elsewhere</a>, Shaders 3.0 was initially going to be in in GU53...then 54...now "maybe" 55 but more likely 56(if that). The fact is, as long as you click that Accept button on the User Agreement that states basically game play can change at any time and you are okay with it, this will continue to happen.</blockquote>True, true. Doesn't stop people from taking them at their word though.I'm not disputing that things can change; and I've already said I'm OK with (possibly even grateful) this being fixed. The whole sidebar was debating what was stated by the Deveopers.<cite>Gungo wrote:</cite><blockquote>They stated from the begining that grey shard runs will get fixed in the next expansion.</blockquote>All I'm saying is they didn't say that. They stated the OPPOSITE of that on the open forums, and only on the BETA forums on 12/10/09 did they say they decided (THAT VERY DAY) to remove them.

Gungo

02-11-2010, 05:50 PM

<cite>Kurgan@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite><blockquote>Going forward means they are going to prevent it from happening in the future, but they were not going to stop the EXPLOIT currently in TSO. Of course you can take the post in whichever slighted view you want but the fact remains they ALWAYS and OBVIOUSLY intended to correct this issue in the future. Since the beginning of SF they stated they were going to prevent the EXPLOITATION of shards. Arguing that was not thier intention is moot since obviously they did change it.</blockquote>Agreed; it's moot because they changed their mind, but saying "it's been a part of gameplay for long enough that changing things now would simply be punishing to our players and a major buzzkill" and "we won't be breaking the current dynamic" is saying they aren't changing it. Period.Not "We'll be changing it in the next expansion" or "We'll change it later" but "We won't be changing it." It's not open for interpretation. They then decided on December 10th, 2009 to fix it instead. It's fine with me, I'm j ust saying it's contradictory to what Kiara posted on the open forums, so I can understand people being upset by it and more may very well be surprised by it after launch.</blockquote>I disagree and apparently I am right. Of course you can still fall back on your opinion they changed thier mind instead of what they actually were saying. I also beleive there was another post claiming that future shard gear will not be exploitable this way. The fact remains they always intend to change it and it wasnt something they thought to do on the 10th of decemeber because that was the first time you saw the change. It was obvious they discussed a resolution and changed the code WELL before you say it."Going forward we're going to do our best to ensure that we prevent stuff like this, but we won't be "breaking" the current dynamic."The above statement does not mean they were not going to stop grey shard runs. That is YOUR presumption of her definition of CURRENT. I took current to mean the current TSO expansion. You took it to mean the current exploit.

Gungo

02-11-2010, 05:53 PM

<cite>Bridgeplay wrote:</cite><blockquote>Gungo, as I've said before I don't do grey quest shards. That you would presumptively assume that I do them pretty much defines the limits of your viewpoint.</blockquote>Presuming that you exploit because you defend exploiting pretty much shows the nature of your viewpoint.

Obadiah

02-11-2010, 05:56 PM

<cite>Gungo wrote:</cite><blockquote>I disagree and apparently I am right. Of course you can still fall back on your opinion they changed thier mind instead of what they actually were saying. I also beleive there was another post claiming that future shard gear will not be exploitable this way. The fact remains they always intend to change it and it wasnt something they thought to do on the 10th of decemeber because that was the first time you saw the change. It was obvious they discussed a resolution and changed the code WELL before you say it.</blockquote>No, there's absolutely no way those statements can be interpreted as anything else. They were saying they weren't going to change it. Period. They weren't going to make the same mistake again, that's for sure. But they weren't going to change it.Incidentally, the change wasn't in beta on the 10th of December, that's just when this was posted: <blockquote>We discussed this today and we are going to make sure this is corrected before the expansion.Thanks for bringing it up! Good call!</blockquote> The change itself wasn't in beta until January.

Bridgeplay

02-11-2010, 05:58 PM

To the contrary Gungo, I've criticized both grey shard quests and "Selling Looting Rights." I want to see both stopped.I also don't want to see EQ2's player population drop as believe it will over the next several months due to this and other changes coming live with Sentinels Fate. (Short term, there will be an increase in server populations as people return to see the first expansion since 2008.)<cite>Gungo wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bridgeplay wrote:</cite><blockquote>Gungo, as I've said before I don't do grey quest shards. That you would presumptively assume that I do them pretty much defines the limits of your viewpoint.</blockquote>Presuming that you exploit because you defend exploiting pretty much shows the nature of your viewpoint.</blockquote>

Gungo

02-11-2010, 05:59 PM

<cite>Kurgan@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>They were saying they weren't going to change it. Period.</blockquote>Show me that qoute.Or is this another one of your assumptions."Going forward we're going to do our best to ensure that we prevent stuff like this, but we won't be "breaking" the current dynamic."The above statement does not mean they were not going to stop grey shard runs. That is YOUR presumption of her definition of CURRENT. I took current to mean the current TSO expansion. You took it to mean the current exploit.

Gothyia

02-11-2010, 06:05 PM

Quesion is this now gona affect us mentoring down to go back an do heritage quests ?if we zone into a zone thats normally lvl 40 to 50 and we mentor to 50 then unmentor is it goingto make it grey or it wont let us unmentor or what. Im a bit confused.I realize what its doing to shard zones but is this every zone thats instanced?Alot of us go and green out an instance to get some low lvl loots from named bosses.Is this gonna affect that?

Geothe

02-11-2010, 06:08 PM

<cite>Gothyia wrote:</cite><blockquote>Quesion is this now gona affect us mentoring down to go back an do heritage quests ?if we zone into a zone thats normally lvl 40 to 50 and we mentor to 50 then unmentor is it goingto make it grey or it wont let us unmentor or what. Im a bit confused.I realize what its doing to shard zones but is this every zone thats instanced?Alot of us go and green out an instance to get some low lvl loots from named bosses.Is this gonna affect that?</blockquote>Only effects zones that already scale to level.ie. The shard instances in CL, EF, LS, LP, as well as Shard of Love. Maybe another one or two I'm missnig.Instances that DO NOT scale already, aren't affected.

Obadiah

02-11-2010, 06:09 PM

<cite>Gungo wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kurgan@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>They were saying they weren't going to change it. Period.</blockquote>Show me that qoute.Or is this another one of your assumptions."Going forward we're going to do our best to ensure that we prevent stuff like this, but we won't be "breaking" the current dynamic."The above statement does not mean they were not going to stop grey shard runs. That is YOUR presumption of her definition of CURRENT. I took current to mean the current TSO expansion. You took it to mean the current exploit.</blockquote><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=0&topic_id=454563�" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...63�</a>Not assuming anything. Just reading the text, which tells players that they are not getting rid of grey shards. It has nothing to do with the definition of the word "current".

Yimway

02-11-2010, 06:42 PM

<cite>Thunndar316 wrote:</cite><blockquote>The same expansion where those "Heroic" encounters included raid scripting and required specific classes because they would be too easy for people sporting VP gear?</blockquote>Heroic named encounters became more scripted. Many of them always were scripted, but in TSO the scripts got more difficult to evovle with the more mature player base.This has NOTHING to do with raiding or not raiding. It's simply scripted heroic encounters.

Gungo

02-11-2010, 06:55 PM

<cite>Kurgan@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kurgan@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>They were saying they weren't going to change it. Period.</blockquote>Show me that qoute.Or is this another one of your assumptions."Going forward we're going to do our best to ensure that we prevent stuff like this, but we won't be "breaking" the current dynamic."The above statement does not mean they were not going to stop grey shard runs. That is YOUR presumption of her definition of CURRENT. I took current to mean the current TSO expansion. You took it to mean the current exploit.</blockquote><a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=0&topic_id=454563�" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...63?</a>Not assuming anything. Just reading the text, which tells players that they are not getting rid of grey shards. It has nothing to do with the definition of the word "current".</blockquote>just because you keep repeating yourself does not make your opinion any more true. The fact was you interpreted "current" to mean this exploit will last FOREVER. Obviously you are wrong.

urgthock

02-11-2010, 07:01 PM

<cite>Skywarrior wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Elftimber@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Either a guildie or I made all the shard gear I have. Must be crafted....</blockquote>True enough but that is sort of like saying the VP raid sets or the T4 shard sets are "vendor purchased" because you have to turn in the parts you get from a raid and other sources to an NPC in exchange for the gear. Yes, the crafter who has the recipes may make the gear if the player provides the materials (shards) required. Crafters are not necessary to get the gear, however, just cheaper in shards.Essentially, the T1/T2 armor sets are the Heroic version of the raid-dropped pattern sets.</blockquote>No, they are solo versions. Don't believe me? Go run the solo shard mission a few dozen times (as painful as it might be) and go get a "heroic" reward.

Obadiah

02-11-2010, 07:10 PM

<cite>Gungo wrote:</cite><blockquote>just because you keep repeating yourself does not make your opinion any more true. The fact was you interpreted "current" to mean this exploit will last FOREVER. Obviously you are wrong.</blockquote>No, I'm not wrong, but although we've derailed this thread enough I'll try one more time.Your statement was that they said grey shards were going away in SF. In reality they never said that. That statement was never made. That's all I was trying to correct. It's a fact. It's not open to interpretation. You cannot link a post in which they stated "from the beginning" that this exploit would be removed in SF because it doesn't exist. I didn't expect a 500 post dialogue about such a ridiculously small detail.You can interpret Kiara's post however you want, 99 out of 100 people would interpret that as "Grey shards are here to stay." because that's what it says in very clear English.The first time it was EVER stated that the mechanic was being removed was in December when it was stated on the beta boards by a developer who thanked someone for making the suggestion. So to say that "they said from the beginning" that these would be going away is patently false. I'm not wrong, and it's not an opinion.They're going away now, so tbh nobody really cares but you and I. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" />

therodge

02-11-2010, 07:13 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Thunndar316 wrote:</cite><blockquote>The same expansion where those "Heroic" encounters included raid scripting and required specific classes because they would be too easy for people sporting VP gear?</blockquote>Heroic named encounters became more scripted. Many of them always were scripted, but in TSO the scripts got more difficult to evovle with the more mature player base.This has NOTHING to do with raiding or not raiding. It's simply scripted heroic encounters.</blockquote>your statement is true but misleading it doesent have anything to do with raiding directly but the statement in red isnt true, people dont just get drastically better at the game it doesent happen, the people who suck now will always suck and vice versa all they did by upping the scripts is kill the casual playerbase

Yimway

02-11-2010, 07:16 PM

<cite>Kurgan@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>The first time it was EVER stated that the mechanic was being removed was in December when it was stated on the beta boards by a developer who thanked someone for making the suggestion. So to say that "they said from the beginning" that these would be going away is patently false. I'm not wrong, and it's not an opinion.They're going away now, so tbh nobody really cares but you and I. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>In the begining they said it was an exploit and it was going away.They realized by the time they had a fix for it, that too many people had been able to use it, and closing the barn door after the horses were gone didn't really make sense. So the let it stay.There were other shard exploits that were reported (silently not on forums) that were also not fixed and allowed to remain until the end of TSO, and they also got fixed with SF.

Geothe

02-11-2010, 07:19 PM

Moral of the story:Whether you always though grey shards were an exploit or not, is irrelevent.The fact of the matter SoE has now decided that they are an exploit and have taken measures to stop grey shards from the time of the upcoming expansion onwards.End of Story.

Obadiah

02-11-2010, 07:31 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>There were other shard exploits that were reported (silently not on forums) that were also not fixed and allowed to remain until the end of TSO, and they also got fixed with SF.</blockquote>Ooh, did they get rid of the Crucible DD where you can get it with 500 people? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" />

Obadiah

02-11-2010, 07:46 PM

<cite>Geothe wrote:</cite><blockquote>Moral of the story:Whether you always though grey shards were an exploit or not, is irrelevent.The fact of the matter SoE has now decided that they are an exploit and have taken measures to stop grey shards from the time of the upcoming expansion onwards.End of Story.</blockquote>Curse/thank you for getting us back on topic. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /><dl><dd>Gather ye grey shards while ye may,</dd><dd>Old Time is still a-flying;</dd><dd>And this same exploit that smiles today,</dd><dd>Tomorrow will be dying.</dd></dl>

Gungo

02-11-2010, 07:48 PM

<cite>Kurgan@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite><blockquote>just because you keep repeating yourself does not make your opinion any more true. The fact was you interpreted "current" to mean this exploit will last FOREVER. Obviously you are wrong.</blockquote>No, I'm not wrong, but although we've derailed this thread enough I'll try one more time.Your statement was that they said grey shards were going away in SF. In reality they never said that. That statement was never made. That's all I was trying to correct. It's a fact. It's not open to interpretation. You cannot link a post in which they stated "from the beginning" that this exploit would be removed in SF because it doesn't exist. I didn't expect a 500 post dialogue about such a ridiculously small detail.You can interpret Kiara's post however you want, 99 out of 100 people would interpret that as "Grey shards are here to stay." because that's what it says in very clear English.The first time it was EVER stated that the mechanic was being removed was in December when it was stated on the beta boards by a developer who thanked someone for making the suggestion. So to say that "they said from the beginning" that these would be going away is patently false. I'm not wrong, and it's not an opinion.They're going away now, so tbh nobody really cares but you and I. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>And you can not link me a post saying that "grey shard are here to stay". In fact 99% of 100 peopel who read her post plainly read "Going forward we're going to do our best to ensure that we prevent stuff like this". Which is the exact opposite of grey shard are here to stay.Yes you are wrong, yes its an opinion of her qoute and guess what grey shards are going away now which proves you are wrong. Because if you weren't wrong then grey shard would be in SF. And by evidence of this thread grey shards are going away. So by definition you are wrong. And although no one cares but you and I those MINOR details refute your claim.

Obadiah

02-11-2010, 07:51 PM

<cite>Gungo wrote:</cite><blockquote>And you can not link me a post saying that "grey shard are here to stay". In fact 99% of 100 peopel who read her post plainly read "Going forward we're going to do our best to ensure that we prevent stuff like this". Which is the exact opposite of grey shard are here to stay.Yes you are wrong, yes its an opinion of her qoute and guess what grey shards are going away now which proves you are wrong. Because if you weren't wrong then grey shard would be in SF. And by evidence of this thread grey shards are going away. So by definition you are wrong. And although no one cares but you and I those MINOR details refute your claim.</blockquote>Dude. You're kidding me. Why would I have to link you a post saying "Grey shards are here to stay?" I didn't make the claim that they said that. You, on the other hand said that "from the beginning" they said grey shards would be going away in SF and have yet to point to the slightest comment made by anyone to that effect. That they ARE going away in SF has nothing to do with what was stated on the forums and what was not and in no way supports your claim OR mine.If I'm wrong - as you claim I am - it means they said that "Grey shards will be going away in SF" well before SF Beta, because that's what you said happened, and that's all I was disputing, and you still haven't pointed to where that was said. Meanwhile I've pointed to comments to the contrary, and to comments from developers IN the beta thanking people for suggesting that they correct that. I've gone too far acting as if the burden of proof was on me even though I'm not the one that made the false statement to begin with. Please link me the post where they said "from the beginning" that grey shards were going away in SF. Then I'll gladly shut it because it's beyond ridiculous now.

Valdaglerion

02-11-2010, 08:54 PM

In considering "current" dynamics for fixing or not fixing grey shards, I think its safe to say they modified the zones as they are now scaling to 90 so these are essentially "new" and not the existing or "current". In the "new" version, grey shard runs are done with.The good news is that you have 5 days to run them as much as you want to. So each toon can get at least 8 shards a day just doing Everfrost, Commonlands, and Lavastorm, go go go . . .

Horgana

02-11-2010, 09:37 PM

OMG Let this topic die already!The change is in, it goes live on Tuesday.I know it's boring waiting for the expansion, but really, go watch the telly or something.

Mustang8259

02-12-2010, 05:26 AM

Still haven't found where it says this anywhere in notes or anything... Can anyone link where this info is coming from? I will admit if it's true then I don't agree that they should be doing it, but if it is happening, oh well... but I just want PROOF and less people flapping their gums one way or the other and trolling about it... someone either post the notes/code/whatever or make a link so I can see it for myself... please...

bks6721

02-12-2010, 09:23 AM

<cite>Mustang8259 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Still haven't found where it says this anywhere in notes or anything... Can anyone link where this info is coming from? I will admit if it's true then I don't agree that they should be doing it, but if it is happening, oh well... but I just want PROOF and less people flapping their gums one way or the other and trolling about it... someone either post the notes/code/whatever or make a link so I can see it for myself... please...</blockquote>the proof is on Beta now. you cannot unmentor inside a scaleable zone.

CoLD MeTaL

02-12-2010, 10:53 AM

Now we will see even more:"Group for <insert zone> needs bard""Group for <insert zone> needs bard""Group for <insert zone> needs bard""Group for <insert zone> needs bard""Group for <insert zone> needs bard""Group for <insert zone> needs bard""Group for <insert zone> needs bard""Group for <insert zone> needs bard, nevermind everyone had to log."

Meunayil

02-12-2010, 11:20 AM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote>Shard gear was never intended for solo players outside the solo shard of the day quest. Which, isn't really a realistic option since it would take so long.Soloing should lead to solo rewards, not heroic or raid rewards.</blockquote>Shard gear was never intended for solo players? Nice copout answer there. So, you are meaning to say that those that play outside of "prime" time should be punished for having a life? I myself work nights 2pm-12am so most days cannot get groups to earn shards. Then on weekends when I would be able to get groups I most likely would not be wanted due to no shard armor. What a crock ... so go ahead and sit on your high horse Gaige its what you are good at anyways.I do however agree the fabled gear vendor should not have been allowed in live.Hopefully this dynamic is changed in SF otherwise like many have surmised SOE just alienated the casual player base and with 0 work being done by SOE Public Relations to attempt any sort of advertising or purchasing of shelf space the entire game as well. Because without the casual player the game cannot stand regardless what the raiders think.

Gaige

02-12-2010, 02:41 PM

I have no problem with casual players, I just think they should be rewarded for their playstyle, not above it.

Thunndar316

02-12-2010, 03:33 PM

<cite>Skywarrior wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Thunndar316 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Skywarrior wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Thunndar316 wrote:</cite><blockquote>The same expansion where those "Heroic" encounters included raid scripting and required specific classes because they would be too easy for people sporting VP gear?</blockquote>lol. Yep, I was right. He posted this while I was typing my last post. Emphasis added by me.</blockquote>That's exactly what they are. 1 group raids. Not near as difficult as x4, duh. Still it's the same concept just dialed down.</blockquote>Well, I guess you could apply that definition to any encounter in the game. Where do you draw the line? The game draws it at number of players allowed to participate simultaneously and still receive credit for the encounter. There are really only two types of encounters in the game - group and raid, with 2-group and 4-group variants for the raid. Group encounters may be done by 1 to 6 characters. Raids may be done by 1 to 4 groups of 6 characters. So, as far as the game is concerned, the only real difference between a solo encounter and a x4 raid is the max number of characters allowed to participate.So basically, what you are saying is that TSO instances were too hard for you. Well, there is a leading edge and trailing edge to every Bell curve. No matter what the Devs do there will always be those who find the encounters too easy or too hard. Always. If the difficulty level is changed to suit you it will negatively impact others and vice versa. You have to get past that in order to enjoy the game or move on to something else.</blockquote>Take one look at my gear and tell me they were too hard for me <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" />Also hope that Skywarrior isn't your main cause a 64 Guard has no room to talk

Thunndar316

02-12-2010, 03:34 PM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Thunndar316 wrote:</cite><blockquote>The same expansion where those "Heroic" encounters included raid scripting and required specific classes because they would be too easy for people sporting T2 gear?</blockquote>Fixed.T2 shard gear > VP gear.</blockquote>Because we all started out wearing T2 shard gear right? Oh that's right we didn't. I started out wearing Mastercrafted and Kunark legendary.

EQPrime

02-12-2010, 04:17 PM

<cite>Thunndar316 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Thunndar316 wrote:</cite><blockquote>The same expansion where those "Heroic" encounters included raid scripting and required specific classes because they would be too easy for people sporting T2 gear?</blockquote>Fixed.T2 shard gear > VP gear.</blockquote>Because we all started out wearing T2 shard gear right? Oh that's right we didn't. I started out wearing Mastercrafted and Kunark legendary.</blockquote>Mastercrafted gear is more than enough for many of the TSO instances. I'd probably want better gear for the more difficult zones like Palace, Guk 2 & 3 and RR, and maybe MM, Kor Sha, and NA.

Lorriana

02-12-2010, 07:14 PM

<cite>Gungo wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kurgan@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite><blockquote>just because you keep repeating yourself does not make your opinion any more true. The fact was you interpreted "current" to mean this exploit will last FOREVER. Obviously you are wrong.</blockquote>No, I'm not wrong, but although we've derailed this thread enough I'll try one more time.Your statement was that they said grey shards were going away in SF. In reality they never said that. That statement was never made. That's all I was trying to correct. It's a fact. It's not open to interpretation. You cannot link a post in which they stated "from the beginning" that this exploit would be removed in SF because it doesn't exist. I didn't expect a 500 post dialogue about such a ridiculously small detail.You can interpret Kiara's post however you want, 99 out of 100 people would interpret that as "Grey shards are here to stay." because that's what it says in very clear English.The first time it was EVER stated that the mechanic was being removed was in December when it was stated on the beta boards by a developer who thanked someone for making the suggestion. So to say that "they said from the beginning" that these would be going away is patently false. I'm not wrong, and it's not an opinion.They're going away now, so tbh nobody really cares but you and I. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>And you can not link me a post saying that "grey shard are here to stay". In fact 99% of 100 peopel who read her post plainly read "Going forward we're going to do our best to ensure that we prevent stuff like this". Which is the exact opposite of grey shard are here to stay.Yes you are wrong, yes its an opinion of her qoute and guess what grey shards are going away now which proves you are wrong. Because if you weren't wrong then grey shard would be in SF. And by evidence of this thread grey shards are going away. So by definition you are wrong. And although no one cares but you and I those MINOR details refute your claim.</blockquote> I'm gonna start with saying I have no opinion on this issue. You could grey out instances. Now you can't. Things change. It's just that, after reading through this whole thread, I finally had to post about something. Let us look at this quote:"Going forward we're going to do our best to ensure that we prevent stuff like this, but we won't be "breaking" the current dynamic."Now, let's analyze it. "Going forward" This would be in the future, as the game prgresses."we're going to do our best to prevent stuff like this," This, coupled with the first part, implies that it refers to preventing this type of effect in future content."but we won't be breaking the current mechanic." The obvious interpretation here is that the current mechanic, meaning the one presently in-game, would not be changing in a way to "break" it.This is the obvious interpretation. Other interpretations can, of course, be made. As is the case with pretty well anything statement made. It seems that this statement was later proved incorrect. Due to the changing nature of MMOs, this is not a surprising thing. Statements made are later incorrect very often.

Obadiah

02-12-2010, 08:04 PM

<cite>Lorriana wrote:</cite><blockquote> I'm gonna start with saying I have no opinion on this issue. You could grey out instances. Now you can't. Things change. It's just that, after reading through this whole thread, I finally had to post about something. Let us look at this quote:"Going forward we're going to do our best to ensure that we prevent stuff like this, but we won't be "breaking" the current dynamic."Now, let's analyze it. "Going forward" This would be in the future, as the game prgresses."we're going to do our best to prevent stuff like this," This, coupled with the first part, implies that it refers to preventing this type of effect in future content."but we won't be breaking the current mechanic." The obvious interpretation here is that the current mechanic, meaning the one presently in-game, would not be changing in a way to "break" it.This is the obvious interpretation. Other interpretations can, of course, be made. As is the case with pretty well anything statement made. It seems that this statement was later proved incorrect. Due to the changing nature of MMOs, this is not a surprising thing. Statements made are later incorrect very often.</blockquote>Well I'm glad SOMEONE agrees. It doesn't bother me that she said that. I understand that things change. But what bugs me is when people say it was stated from the beginning that grey shards would be going away in SF when it clearly wasn't, and then insist that I am insane for disagreeing with them but fail to produce a single statement to that effect. I'll get over it I guess. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" />

CoLD MeTaL

02-12-2010, 09:05 PM

<cite>Uguv@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>Mastercrafted gear is more than enough for many of the TSO instances. I'd probably want better gear for the more difficult zones like Palace, Guk 2 & 3 and RR, and maybe MM, Kor Sha, and NA.</blockquote>I completely disagree with that statement, but I understand mileage varies.

Dulissa

02-12-2010, 09:22 PM

<cite>Lorriana wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kurgan@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite><blockquote>just because you keep repeating yourself does not make your opinion any more true. The fact was you interpreted "current" to mean this exploit will last FOREVER. Obviously you are wrong.</blockquote>No, I'm not wrong, but although we've derailed this thread enough I'll try one more time.Your statement was that they said grey shards were going away in SF. In reality they never said that. That statement was never made. That's all I was trying to correct. It's a fact. It's not open to interpretation. You cannot link a post in which they stated "from the beginning" that this exploit would be removed in SF because it doesn't exist. I didn't expect a 500 post dialogue about such a ridiculously small detail.You can interpret Kiara's post however you want, 99 out of 100 people would interpret that as "Grey shards are here to stay." because that's what it says in very clear English.The first time it was EVER stated that the mechanic was being removed was in December when it was stated on the beta boards by a developer who thanked someone for making the suggestion. So to say that "they said from the beginning" that these would be going away is patently false. I'm not wrong, and it's not an opinion.They're going away now, so tbh nobody really cares but you and I. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>And you can not link me a post saying that "grey shard are here to stay". In fact 99% of 100 peopel who read her post plainly read "Going forward we're going to do our best to ensure that we prevent stuff like this". Which is the exact opposite of grey shard are here to stay.Yes you are wrong, yes its an opinion of her qoute and guess what grey shards are going away now which proves you are wrong. Because if you weren't wrong then grey shard would be in SF. And by evidence of this thread grey shards are going away. So by definition you are wrong. And although no one cares but you and I those MINOR details refute your claim.</blockquote> I'm gonna start with saying I have no opinion on this issue. You could grey out instances. Now you can't. Things change. It's just that, after reading through this whole thread, I finally had to post about something. Let us look at this quote:"Going forward we're going to do our best to ensure that we prevent stuff like this, but we won't be "breaking" the current dynamic."Now, let's analyze it. "Going forward" This would be in the future, as the game prgresses."we're going to do our best to prevent stuff like this," This, coupled with the first part, implies that it refers to preventing this type of effect in future content."but we won't be breaking the current mechanic." The obvious interpretation here is that the current mechanic, meaning the one presently in-game, would not be changing in a way to "break" it.This is the obvious interpretation. Other interpretations can, of course, be made. As is the case with pretty well anything statement made. It seems that this statement was later proved incorrect. Due to the changing nature of MMOs, this is not a surprising thing. Statements made are later incorrect very often.</blockquote>TBH, I read "current mechanic" as just that. Current. However, with the TSO zones scaling up to meet the SF levels that would be *gasp* a NEW mechanic. And to "prevent stuff like this in the future" (ie a new mechanic, aka future content) they are fixing it now with the patch.Thats just the way I read it.

Skywarrior

02-12-2010, 09:46 PM

<cite>Thunndar316 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Take one look at my gear and tell me they were too hard for me <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" />Also hope that Skywarrior isn't your main cause a 64 Guard has no room to talk</blockquote>Why should I look at your gear? I'm responding to the words in your posts. This is a forum board where people converse and communicate via words. If your words say something, why should I go look for corroborating data from a source which may or may not have any validity to the issue? For instance, Skywarrior is my forum handle on this account. I own three accounts, any of which I might post from and all of which have level 80 characters of various classes. None of those accounts have a character named Skywarrior on them. If there is a 64 Guard named Skywarrior somewhere then it belongs to someone other than me.If you do not mean something and it doesn't apply to you personally then why are you implying something in argument that you now say is not true when someone calls you on it? Are you just trying to be an ineffective troll then, making complaints and raising issues that don't really apply to you? Explain.

Code2501

02-12-2010, 09:58 PM

Wouldn't this all be a non-issue if SoE dumped the lame token based system and went back to good old fashioned loot drops?You don't get chests of grey mobs right?...Just saying.

Thunndar316

02-13-2010, 01:35 PM

<cite>Skywarrior wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Thunndar316 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Take one look at my gear and tell me they were too hard for me <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" />Also hope that Skywarrior isn't your main cause a 64 Guard has no room to talk</blockquote>Why should I look at your gear? I'm responding to the words in your posts. This is a forum board where people converse and communicate via words. If your words say something, why should I go look for corroborating data from a source which may or may not have any validity to the issue? For instance, Skywarrior is my forum handle on this account. I own three accounts, any of which I might post from and all of which have level 80 characters of various classes. None of those accounts have a character named Skywarrior on them. If there is a 64 Guard named Skywarrior somewhere then it belongs to someone other than me.If you do not mean something and it doesn't apply to you personally then why are you implying something in argument that you now say is not true when someone calls you on it? Are you just trying to be an ineffective troll then, making complaints and raising issues that don't really apply to you? Explain.</blockquote>You should look because then you would be able to admit that you are not reading my posts. You are just skimming through, assuming what you want, and then posting. I posted my opinions on grey shard farming and how it relates to selling loot tights. I also posted that I don't farm grey shards. If you actually read what I posted you would know that.My opinion on a subject has nothing to do with my skill as a player.

Thunndar316

02-13-2010, 01:36 PM

<cite>Code2501 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wouldn't this all be a non-issue if SoE dumped the lame token based system and went back to good old fashioned loot drops?You don't get chests of grey mobs right?...Just saying.</blockquote>No, but you can buy them from Gaige <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" />

Gaige

02-13-2010, 01:48 PM

I don't raid gray mobs.

Dharken

02-15-2010, 09:19 AM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don't raid gray mobs.</blockquote>No, perhaps not. There wouldn't be any profit in it for you by selling Loot Rights. It's ok Gaige, we understand your a mouse and you like your shinies... but so do people who solo and despite your opinion, we're not second class citizens. We deserve the right to earn good gear.I'm not saying grey shard runs is the way to go, but given the chance I think most people who solo would choose to go thru the content and sing for their supper. One shard a day in comparison to 8 (or more) isn't a proper balance imho. =)

MurFalad

02-15-2010, 12:23 PM

<cite>Kesugeo@Nektulos wrote:</cite><blockquote>Shard gear was never intended for solo players? Nice copout answer there. So, you are meaning to say that those that play outside of "prime" time should be punished for having a life? I myself work nights 2pm-12am so most days cannot get groups to earn shards. Then on weekends when I would be able to get groups I most likely would not be wanted due to no shard armor. What a crock ... so go ahead and sit on your high horse Gaige its what you are good at anyways.</blockquote>You can get a full set of T1 shard armour for about 35 shards, that's gear that is very good the jump to T2 isn't night and day, so in one week you'll be able to get a couple of peices and along with MC gear be pretty viable by the weekend, 2 weeks and you are just missing the shoulders and chest.I could tank DF in MC level gear (needed a good healer for the end boss, not sure to be honest if it was just me or the healer). That should be enough to get going and is easy enough to get geared already, making it even easier to get gear will just push the expected gear level bar higher, so if you are not getting into groups now then its a game design problem with the population and that's where any problems need to be fixed.<cite>Kesugeo@Nektulos wrote:</cite><blockquote>I do however agree the fabled gear vendor should not have been allowed in live.</blockquote>Fabled gear made possible to be brought at 150 shards a piece seems a good idea to me, it at least gives a safety valve for those people who just are plain unlucky running an instance seeing that the equivalent number of runs would be 75 to earn enough shards. I know you can run other instances, but for just one piece of gear that's a pretty epic level of effort.<cite>Kesugeo@Nektulos wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hopefully this dynamic is changed in SF otherwise like many have surmised SOE just alienated the casual player base and with 0 work being done by SOE Public Relations to attempt any sort of advertising or purchasing of shelf space the entire game as well. Because without the casual player the game cannot stand regardless what the raiders think.</blockquote>I don't raid so to some people that makes me casual (I play the game for way too many hours to be truly be considered casual). But what you are arguing is that all casual players want an option to play the game grinding away for 40 minutes at a time(*) on unchallenging grey content to earn a shard. Is this a fun way to play the game? Is it challenging? Is it immersive?Or is it extremely boring?Not just that but as a non raider myself why should someone else who only has spent hour after hour grinding away on grey content be allowed to sport a full set of T2 gear? To someone like me a full set of T2 is an achievement in itself, I've run some tough instances already to earn 1/2 a set of T2 so far (as well as running DF a few too many times <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ).I know that raiders get to strut around in Shiny T3/T4, kudos to them for conquering those raids, they've earnt their gear, I earnt mine too so on a game achievement level someone else using an exploit to get the same gear as I have cheapens my achievement.(*)That's how long it took my guardian to do it, yep I did do a couple of grey shard ones, and despite it technically being cheating the real reason I won't do it anymore is that I'll not put myself through that level of boredom again!.

Eridu

02-16-2010, 07:41 AM

Pfft. I read this entire thread. More preening posturing toolbaggery forum blowhards over nothing that concerns or of course affects them.Another stealth blindside, that's fundamentally a contemptuous dopesmack, by the Devs, who've been yakked into ANOTHER "more harm than good" "Shooting themselves in the foot" move by preening toolbags who've nothing to gain so want to see it ditched for anyone else.Oh kudos, welcome to Sentinel's Fate, or TSO 2.0, the second in a seeming series of case studies in"how to shrink your playerbase" expansions.Wherever this game is drifting to, it's becoming undeniably apparent it's nowhere I want to go. SOE, you got me on buying the expansion but ya know, if this doesn't get recinded within the month, you won't get my sub hereafter. I quit for ten months over the TSO expansion, compounded by that insufferably insulting daily solo shard quest (one of those proverbial "the last straws"). Tell me that wasn't a big ol' "well FU then". I came back for a month for Frostfel because it remains the single best bit of MMO play in the industry. The Chronomage, greening The Shard of Love (an incredible addition to the game, best thing in at least two years) and ya duh, "grey shard" runs kept me and engaged me enough to even grab the expansion.I don't go down the block to hang with the 17 year olds, what makes you think I want to pay you to force me to do it virtually with people who behave like 17 year olds as soon as they get behind an avatar or load a forum page? To speaka da lingo...LOLZ I play solo or small group. Period. Tooo much nonsense, replete with squandered Dev time, ahem that is to say, BG's! I swear it'd be a tragicomedy if the core of this game wasn't so stellar and I wasn't paying to watch it play out.Here's a look at the future of your playerbase: The CamelotHerald, the main site for DAoC. Dev arrogance reinforced by fanbois badgering and shouting down others makes for less than a niche game, it'll make for a too weak to die game. I stuck around for that with DAoC, I'll not do that again.

guillero

02-16-2010, 07:54 AM

What a bunch of hypocricy in this thread. It's unbelievable how absolutely horrible the EQ2 community has become.So you egocentrics have been doing grey shard runs for a year, got your nice shiny gear and now everyone else who is behind should be punished by this sudden change!They either should have changed / fixed it a year ago... or not at all!This is yet another perfect example of how to punish and [Removed for Content] of the majority of the playerbase, due to a small VOCAL egocentric minority, who are full of themselves and only themselves!The same as the endless stupid debate about the BG armor, that now got nerfed into uselessness! Same ol' Same ol' whining!It's just a shame to see this game and it's community going downhill this fast! It's sickening!But what is even WORSE. Far WORSE! Is that the devs listen to these VOCAL egocentric whiners! Over and over again! Always give in! And so punish the rest of the playerbase YET AGAIN!After 5 years having to be going through this crap over and over again. It's maybe time to just give up on this game and move on.Everything that was once fun or new stuff that had the potential to be fun (BG's) has been nerfed and ruined due to a bunch of egocentric whiners./facepalm!

Torrin

02-16-2010, 08:45 AM

I'd kinda have to agree with some of the above posters on this.What is the harm of leaving self mentoring running grey shard zones in?It is a way for people who are behind to get caught up on gear and AAs. It is a way for people like me to occupy myself with for an hour or two as opposed to running the clickfest "go here come back go there again come back" questlines that for some reason the quest writers thought we would enjoy. 2 hours of questing doesn't even compare to 2 hours of solo shard running, and atleast to me it's a lot more fun.See I work from home so I quite literally get paid to play games (in a sense). I have lots of time to do stuff in EQ2, and I do a lot of things in it as well. But then there are people like my hunting partner now going on 4 years. She works 10-13 hour days physically and mentally draining work. Many nights she is not up to the headache of trying to get a group to do zones people farmed the crap out of for the past 12 months, nor the headache of some of the people we have to put up with while doing the zones. That is where grey shard runs come in. We can just get in a duo group and just the two of us have a bit of fun running the zones ourselves. Sure we get no real loot out of them, but we neither one really care. She could use the shards for gear upgrades and we both need the AA. Plus it's a way to wind down from the day without having to worry about who the other 4 people we end up grouping with are (and in most cases we really get no choice in who we group with more it's whoever is willing to go) and putting up with them. ((We neither one are really anti-social but there is such a vast majority of muppets that play this game who either are abrasive and rude or stubborn and unskilled or drama leeches that after her 13 hour day can be too much to handle)).I mean look at both sides of it:Do the zone at level you get: Loot drops (usable or mutable), Plat, 2 shards per zone (Shard quest + Shard chest), AA from shard quest + first time Named AA / Disco AA, and coming shortly Exp.Do the zone grey you get: 1 shard per zone, AA from shard quest.Doing them grey you do them faster.. but you make far less Plat, get no Exp (aside from shard quest), get half the shards, no loot to sell / use / mute.The main reason I can see people even remotely wanting to complain about grey shard runs is the AA you can get. yeah about 10%-15% AA per shard quest is a lot I agree. But take a look at AoE power farming. I wouldn't be surprised if after tomorrow there aren't groups in EA AoE farming to grind up levels / AA.. It's the fastest way to do it. fast repoping mobs that you can get 10-20% AA or Exp off of per round.As for the Shard gear itself. it's not that great. Sure it's the stepping stone before Raid Gear this is true but even then you still need to get hundreds of Shards plus run WoE until you can get the patterns you need for the actual nice T3 versions. By that time if you're Raiding in a Raid Guild you will have Raid patterns guaranteed.Anyway that's just my thoughts on the subject. take them for what you will.

Lyssick

02-16-2010, 08:51 AM

<cite>Jerokane@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>What a bunch of hypocricy in this thread. It's unbelievable how absolutely horrible the EQ2 community has become.So you egocentrics have been doing grey shard runs for a year, got your nice shiny gear and now everyone else who is behind should be punished by this sudden change!They either should have changed / fixed it a year ago... or not at all!This is yet another perfect example of how to punish and [Removed for Content] of the majority of the playerbase, due to a small VOCAL egocentric minority, who are full of themselves and only themselves!The same as the endless stupid debate about the BG armor, that now got nerfed into uselessness! Same ol' Same ol' whining!It's just a shame to see this game and it's community going downhill this fast! It's sickening!But what is even WORSE. Far WORSE! Is that the devs listen to these VOCAL egocentric whiners! Over and over again! Always give in! And so punish the rest of the playerbase YET AGAIN!After 5 years having to be going through this crap over and over again. It's maybe time to just give up on this game and move on.Everything that was once fun or new stuff that had the potential to be fun (BG's) has been nerfed and ruined due to a bunch of egocentric whiners./facepalm!</blockquote>Simple fix. Remove all acquisitions purchased with shards earned with the exploit. Remove all gear actually earned USING gear purchased with shards earned using this exploit. Remove all gear from toons that did not directly participate in the kill that dropped the gear: i.e., I just zoned in and bought this awesome loot from WoE for 120plat, but was not in the zone AND group when the bugger was dropped. I should have it removed from my character. Make chests/corpses lootable only by those involved in the kill (and those within group that were in the zone as well). Unlooted chests/corpses just despawn.They want to force a fresh start and put newer toons even further back from those that have been using a known exploit for 18 months, they can do a true fresh start. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" />. The blowhards that got geared up using this method would lose their soapbox and have absolutely nothing to complain about, because it would be only fair, right? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" />OOOORRRR... Leave the grey shard runs in, eliminate any aa/xp gain except the first time that particular quest is done, and call it a day. The AA was a bit ridiculous, as I noticed from recently starting to do these "solo" runs, and was way out of control. Doesn't matter if you can earn more aa some other way. The fact I could zone in somewhere, wait for someone else to get updates, then zone out, and get a quarter of my AA filled was ridonkulous.EVERY guild I have seen has been divided into cliques. Geared core members that have been doing these runs since they came out, then their alts that have taken advantage of the fact they didn't have to run them, but are in full t2 the second they ding 80, Raiders that are in the same boat, underpowered mains, lower level mains and alts. Geared core members who could split into groups and run underpowered mains through these to get THOSE geared up will now have a choice. Form up the geared peeps and tear through shard runs as fast as possible... or take along undergeared peeps that do 2k less damage per second, or can't heal as well, or take twice the damage.. prolonging the runs and turning something as simple as DF and turning it into a three hour fiasco.A lot of the people who post on this forum have forgotten what it's like to be new and not in the "clique". Or they have forgotten what it's like to be in a guild with 200+ members, yet still having to solo everything because all the core players were busy with raiding and had no time for someone just because they aren't 80 in t3/t4 and mythed. This game already had the widest gap between geared max levels and fresh max levels of any other MMO I have ever played.. and this just succeeded in widening the gap further. I am in a great guild.. nice peeps. Super helpful. Am I to expect them to now choose me over a full t2+ wizzy in a shard run group? I can only hope that MC armor and quest rewards in SF will now make up for the fact that newer peeps just got screwed.

Sealover

02-16-2010, 09:54 AM

Since the servers are down I decided to come and read some of the forums. I have recently returned to EQ2 after almost being gone 2 years. I would have the max years had I stayed. I was at one time in a larger guild that did some small raiding but nothing large we would have alliances withothers if we wanted to raid more. I being an alt a holic would have fun just getting on questing, harvesting andgrouping with friends and guildys. Since I have been back I have joined up with some old friends in a smaller guild,the chance of raiding probably zero unless I do pug which the memories of some as far back as EQ1 make me shiver.I have every crafter there is and some of the twice. I might have 100 plat to my name at any given time. I didnt knowabout mentoring when I came back just found out about a week ago. Before the server came down after being backa couple of months my lvl 80 warden now has 5 piece of shard gear T1. She has a weapon or a couple that I as amaster weaponsmith have made her. I see people hunting for raid groups stating T4 Warden with Myth and 200 aalooking for a group. WOW I think to myself that person must really be uber. I didnt come from a guild that was intouberness and I still don't. A very wise player by the name of Bugbig from Shadow Company guild in AB (my former guildleader and role play father) told me its not the destination but the Journey. You know he is right, the person with thet4 armor and the mythical weapon might look better, but inside I feel pretty good about what I have accomplishedmainly solo.Someone said that if they let it go on for grey shard runs all this time is it fair to pull the plug now that some are runningaround with full gear and the rest of us that solo most the time will only look at them and wonder how? When theserver comes back up I give it 5 days and there will be someone announcing Lvl 90 Warden in full Twhatever with thebaddest weapon looking for group. And you know what, I won't be looking for a group I will either be in one with myfriends or crafting or harvesting or just having fun. SeauflyLvl 80 WardenOrder of MarrAB Server

Carthr

02-16-2010, 10:53 AM

<cite>Dharken wrote:</cite><blockquote>We deserve the right to earn good gear.</blockquote>Sure, you have the right to EARN good gear.. You EARN good gear by killing mobs at con. You EARN good gear by becoming proficient at your class and putting in the effort to kill a raid mob. You EARN the right by going and farming for rares, shinies etc., that people buy for plat, and then you turn around and buy loot with the said plat. You EARN the right by going to work, making RL money, buying a couple LoN boxes and selling those for a couple hundred plat, and turning around and buying a loot drop..You don't EARN the right by going and getting a level 80 quest, exploiting a zone down to level 50, running past mobs and clicking something. It baffles me that people believe they are entitled to gear without putting the work that was intended to earn that loot. It's like one of those "Get rich quick" schemes, except SoE is pulling the plug...Bravo!And about selling loot drops. Seriously.. What's the big deal.. Raids generally don't sell loot for the first 3-6 months because they're still gearing up mains/alts/alts of alts etc. Maybe people wouldn't buy loot drops from heroic zones if they ran them at con, and got the loot to drop themselves...hmmmm

guillero

02-16-2010, 11:53 AM

<cite>Carthrax wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dharken wrote:</cite><blockquote>We deserve the right to earn good gear.</blockquote>Sure, you have the right to EARN good gear.. You EARN good gear by killing mobs at con. You EARN good gear by becoming proficient at your class and putting in the effort to kill a raid mob. You EARN the right by going and farming for rares, shinies etc., that people buy for plat, and then you turn around and buy loot with the said plat. You EARN the right by going to work, making RL money, buying a couple LoN boxes and selling those for a couple hundred plat, and turning around and buying a loot drop..You don't EARN the right by going and getting a level 80 quest, exploiting a zone down to level 50, running past mobs and clicking something. It baffles me that people believe they are entitled to gear without putting the work that was intended to earn that loot. It's like one of those "Get rich quick" schemes, except SoE is pulling the plug...Bravo!And about selling loot drops. Seriously.. What's the big deal.. Raids generally don't sell loot for the first 3-6 months because they're still gearing up mains/alts/alts of alts etc. Maybe people wouldn't buy loot drops from heroic zones if they ran them at con, and got the loot to drop themselves...hmmmm</blockquote>It's so easy to talk down to people, when you yourself and everyone else have been exploiting this the past year and got all your gear already!The only people that get punished now, are the new players joining the game and the slower levelers (like me and my gf).This is just all hypocricy at it's best! Utterly disgusting!!If you, anyone else or SOE for that matter, would have been so concerned about this. Then SOE would have fixed/addressed this right in the beginning when it all started! Wich is over a year ago now!!So please. Go lecture yourself.

Geothe

02-16-2010, 11:57 AM

<cite>Jerokane@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>It's so easy to talk down to people, when you yourself and everyone else have been exploiting this the past year and got all your gear already!The only people that get punished now, are the new players joining the game and the slower levelers (like me and my gf).This is just all hypocricy at it's best! Utterly disgusting!!If you, anyone else or SOE for that matter, would have been so concerned about this. Then SOE would have fixed/addressed this right in the beginning when it all started! Wich is over a year ago now!!So please. Go lecture yourself.</blockquote>[Removed for Content].Thats hilarious.Hypocricy?Not even.SoE KNEW there would be countless moaning posts if they would of corrected grey shard runs mid expansion from players such as yourself. That is why they waited until the expansion.Now, in the expansion, EVERYONE starts with a clean slate. No one gets the advantage of having run grey shards longer than some one else, since it is now impossible to do so to gain the new shards (actually called Marks now).So actually, it was a perfect time to make such a fix and SoE did it in a perfect manner.

Xanrn

02-16-2010, 12:04 PM

It baffles me how you can possible think, buying Boosters with RL, trading for plat, buying loot with said plat is better than Grey Shard runs...Seriously thats some funny crap right there, "EARN RL MONEY!!!!!" hahahaha.So I take it you agree shards should be tradeable?I don't see the problem with Grey Shards or buying loot, they are the same thing.Its too late to fix Grey Shard runs, I don't even see why they care.

guillero

02-16-2010, 12:11 PM

<cite>Geothe wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Jerokane@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>It's so easy to talk down to people, when you yourself and everyone else have been exploiting this the past year and got all your gear already!The only people that get punished now, are the new players joining the game and the slower levelers (like me and my gf).This is just all hypocricy at it's best! Utterly disgusting!!If you, anyone else or SOE for that matter, would have been so concerned about this. Then SOE would have fixed/addressed this right in the beginning when it all started! Wich is over a year ago now!!So please. Go lecture yourself.</blockquote>[Removed for Content].Thats hilarious.Hypocricy?Not even.SoE KNEW there would be countless moaning posts if they would of corrected grey shard runs mid expansion from players such as yourself. That is why they waited until the expansion.Now, in the expansion, EVERYONE starts with a clean slate. No one gets the advantage of having run grey shards longer than some one else, since it is now impossible to do so to gain the new shards (actually called Marks now).So actually, it was a perfect time to make such a fix and SoE did it in a perfect manner.</blockquote>No they wouldn't have. The moment it started happening, SOE could have hotfixed it!They didn't and pretty much have given the impression that it was ok. And thus everyone was doing it.The only people that they punish now are the people in small guilds and people that solo/duo with friends/partner. And those make up a very large part of the playerbase!Jer

Geothe

02-16-2010, 12:19 PM

<cite>Jerokane@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>No they wouldn't have. The moment it started happening, SOE could have hotfixed it!They didn't and pretty much have given the impression that it was ok. And thus everyone was doing it.The only people that they punish now are the people in small guilds and people that solo/duo with friends/partner. And those make up a very large part of the playerbase!Jer</blockquote>What is this fixation on punishing?If they were set on punishing, they would of banned all characters that took advantage of this exploit. THAT is a punishment.Instead, from now you, you will actually have to EARN your gear./gasp Crazy concept, I know, but try it a bit?Voidshards are essentially obsolete as of today anyways.SF Marks are the new gear currency, and NO ONE can earn them via grey missions.So EVERYONE is on an equal level, so there is no punishment involved.Merely the requirement that you actually run instances while they CON to you instead of running through grey.

Obadiah

02-16-2010, 12:23 PM

<cite>Jerokane@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>No they wouldn't have. The moment it started happening, SOE could have hotfixed it!They didn't and pretty much have given the impression that it was ok. And thus everyone was doing it.The only people that they punish now are the people in small guilds and people that solo/duo with friends/partner. And those make up a very large part of the playerbase!Jer</blockquote>They could have done so in the TSO beta, but they instead explained that it was OK because A) It still took some time and B) those people had no chance for loot drops. It should have been fixed right then and there.Then they decided in the middle of TSO that it was actually an exploit and stated that to the general populace on these forums.Then they decided later that it would be a major buzzkill to fix it and stated that they weren't going to change it.Then someone brought it up in SF beta and they thanked them for bringing it up and said they'd fix it.They still haven't stated on these boards that it is being changed. It is not noted in the update notes. It would seem they just don't want to talk about it and hope it goes away. Maybe they are assuming people will be distracted this week about not getting their copies of the expansion that they'll drop it.

Carthr

02-16-2010, 01:35 PM

<cite>Jerokane@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>It's so easy to talk down to people, when you yourself and everyone else have been exploiting this the past year and got all your gear already!The only people that get punished now, are the new players joining the game and the slower levelers (like me and my gf).This is just all hypocricy at it's best! Utterly disgusting!!If you, anyone else or SOE for that matter, would have been so concerned about this. Then SOE would have fixed/addressed this right in the beginning when it all started! Wich is over a year ago now!!So please. Go lecture yourself.</blockquote>I never ran grey shard runs, I had no need to. I ran the easy zones until I had the gear to run the harder zones, which then allowed me to start TSO raiding etc.. The NORMAL progression.. So before you assume that everyone exploited, maybe you should get a clue, and learn to not fail at the game. The content was cleared without T1/T2/T3/T4 gear, maybe you should concentrate on learning how to play, and not how to exploit..

Valdaglerion

02-16-2010, 03:25 PM

Peeps, seriously, no one is being "punished" over this fix.Shard gear is not needed for SF OR leveling 70-80 or 81-90The big thing for shard gear was critical mitigation which was only needed in the heroic shard instances and raid zones. For solo areas ROK gear is better in all honesty.The recent changes to xp have now trivialized the 71-80 content so you can get to 81-90 quicker now. The level path looks like rok from 69-80 unless you want to do the 100 quests in Moors once you hit 75 for change of scenery and additional AA. There are a minimal number of quests in the shard zones and they are a pita. Besides you need tokens for the new gear so dont waste your time with the old shards, get to 90 and start workin on the new ones.

Dharken

02-17-2010, 08:59 AM

<cite>Carthrax wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dharken wrote:</cite><blockquote>We deserve the right to earn good gear.</blockquote>Sure, you have the right to EARN good gear.. You EARN good gear by killing mobs at con. You EARN good gear by becoming proficient at your class and putting in the effort to kill a raid mob. You EARN the right by going and farming for rares, shinies etc., that people buy for plat, and then you turn around and buy loot with the said plat. You EARN the right by going to work, making RL money, buying a couple LoN boxes and selling those for a couple hundred plat, and turning around and buying a loot drop..You don't EARN the right by going and getting a level 80 quest, exploiting a zone down to level 50, running past mobs and clicking something. It baffles me that people believe they are entitled to gear without putting the work that was intended to earn that loot. It's like one of those "Get rich quick" schemes, except SoE is pulling the plug...Bravo!And about selling loot drops. Seriously.. What's the big deal.. Raids generally don't sell loot for the first 3-6 months because they're still gearing up mains/alts/alts of alts etc. Maybe people wouldn't buy loot drops from heroic zones if they ran them at con, and got the loot to drop themselves...hmmmm</blockquote>O.o Did you not read my whole post or are you intentionally picking one part of what i said and running with it...QFT... *sigh*"I'm not saying grey shard runs is the way to go, but given the chance I think most people who solo would choose to go thru the content and sing for their supper. One shard a day in comparison to 8 (or more) isn't a proper balance imho. =)"I've bolded the text that followed the quote you grabbed... and the smily for emphasis.I don't WANT to run grey shard instances... its boring, and it not so fondly reminds me of WoW... which i grew to detest a while ago. What I would LOVE to run is a solo instance where i have the chance to kill mobs on a normal loot table, frag more mobs for quest updates, or tokens or however SOE could do it, and earn a shard thru a quest or two... Why would that be so bad?Now, what's wrong with selling loot rights? Its a cop-out. It doesn't matter how long a raid guild "doesn't sell" loot rights... if it were ment to be sold, it wouldnt be no-trade and I don't give a 'tonga's butt about the opinon that it's not no-drop prior to looting it. Acutally it IS... otherwise you wouldnt be trying to sell the loot rights to it instead of putting it on the broker. Eh? =)

bks6721

02-17-2010, 09:36 AM

Carthr

02-17-2010, 12:52 PM

<cite>Pauly@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>That's funny!! You've earned FABLED gear by trading LON cards? You think selling shinies is EARNING Fabled gear? You should have paid attention in school.</blockquote>Yup.. I do.. You earn the plat, and you pay for the gear.. Raid force gets what they want(plat for unwanted gear) and person gets what they want(gear for unwanted plat).. That'd be like saying you didn't "EARN" a Corvette, because you didn't build it... You didn't put in the time to learn how to build it, but you made the money to purchase it...

TigTiger

02-17-2010, 04:47 PM

<cite>Carthrax wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Pauly@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>That's funny!! You've earned FABLED gear by trading LON cards? You think selling shinies is EARNING Fabled gear? You should have paid attention in school.</blockquote>Yup.. I do.. You earn the plat, and you pay for the gear.. Raid force gets what they want(plat for unwanted gear) and person gets what they want(gear for unwanted plat).. That'd be like saying you didn't "EARN" a Corvette, because you didn't build it... You didn't put in the time to learn how to build it, but you made the money to purchase it...</blockquote>That's like saying you "EARNED" the Corvette because you worked hard at your job, then cloned yourself a few times so they could work at other jobs while you took all the money from them, then bought several other cars and sold them to people at inflated prices so you could make enough money to buy your Corvette.Seriously if you can't see what's wrong with your thinking here then your never going to understand people who just want to play the game to enjoy the game and have fun doing it. The whole attitude of "i've got to have the best stuff in the game no matter what" is what drives alot of the game now, and drives alot of people to frustration with it. The game was created and intented to be played by one person, without a bot, playing one character at a time. Haveing 2 or 3 or 4 accounts and 2 or 3 or 4 boxing with the game was never intended to be a standard player strategy. I would bless the day SOE came out with something in a patch that only let you run one client at a time. But it will never happen. Why? Because more accounts = more money; and no matter how decent the people are who run the game and program the game ANYTHING that = more money without totaly exploiting the game and makeing more people quit than is generated in revenue = more money to program and reprogram things in the game to make them better, faster, or more fun.Dual boxing or more, buying lots of LoN cards and selling them for in game plat, selling loot rights to items in raids, these things to me are all on par with creating temp characters to make as much plat as possible to sell on a 3rd party website, or selling in game items on a website. The big difference is while both groups of things take advantage of people who dont think every minuet of the day about how they can get something better in the game, one group keeps the money going to SOE, while the other group gets all the money for themselves, and alot of times can result in money losses for SOE.And of course the primary issue in all of this for the poor SOE devs and programers and other people who are trying to keep the game fun and balanced is how does this effect the game and how we need to program it/change it?? And trying to factor all those things into anything that's done in the game its no wonder whole world content changes and such are years apart. I sympathize with anyone and everyone at SOE who has to think about how to factor these things into decisions they make as it just adds another layer of work onto whatever their main job might already be.My main point is this. If your doing something in the game that takes advantage of other people in the game, either because they dont know the people you do who have figured these things out, or maybe arnt as smart as you about how to do these things, or people who simply can't afford to have 2 or 3 different accounts, or don't have a system or the skills to 2 box or more in the game, simply adds in a larger or smaller way to the frustration or loss of enjoyment of the game who are simply trying to play the game as it was intended. Please try NOT to do it. I realize that my one comment here isn't suddenly going to change the way everyone plays the game, but I hope it does at least make some people stop and think a bit next time they try to sell something for 100's of plat in the game. MOST people in the game don't have access to that kind of funding, they don't have the time to play the game in any legitimate way that they would earn that much plat in a day or a week or even a month sometimes.The game is supposed to be fun people. If your doing something that irritates and takes advantage of a significant group of people in the game then where is the fun in that?Time to go get my Kerra Isle faction up some more so I can buy kitty things for my house. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />

Lexli

02-17-2010, 05:11 PM

<cite>TigTiger wrote:</cite><blockquote>My main point is this. If your doing something in the game that takes advantage of other people in the game, either because they dont know the people you do who have figured these things out, or maybe arnt as smart as you about how to do these things, or people who simply can't afford to have 2 or 3 different accounts, or don't have a system or the skills to 2 box or more in the game, simply adds in a larger or smaller way to the frustration or loss of enjoyment of the game who are simply trying to play the game as it was intended. Please try NOT to do it. I realize that my one comment here isn't suddenly going to change the way everyone plays the game, but I hope it does at least make some people stop and think a bit next time they try to sell something for 100's of plat in the game. MOST people in the game don't have access to that kind of funding, they don't have the time to play the game in any legitimate way that they would earn that much plat in a day or a week or even a month sometimes.The game is supposed to be fun people. If your doing something that irritates and takes advantage of a significant group of people in the game then where is the fun in that?</blockquote>How exactly do you know that boxing wasn't intended?And, because a group of people in the game can't afford to, don't have the skills too, were born with 8 thumbs and two fingers, and can't box, then I can't? And, I'm curious, how does my boxing affect your fun?I would also love to see the research you've done showing the % of people that don't have lots of plat. Or could it be that YOU don't, but just don't want to look like a noob. Fact of the matter is, its hard NOT to have that kind of cash with even a moderate playtime and casual playstyle if you make even the slightest effort. I'm currently leveling a bruiser, playing solo in the mornings at work since I can't box here, and with 2 hours a day at most M-F at level 65 I have over 400p, and I'm not even trying to make money - the broker and shinies/harvests are a beautiful thing.People like you really [Removed for Content] me off. Just because YOU can't do something, for whatever reason, you think that others that do have the ability should be pulled down to your level and not able to enjoy playing their way. Also, how is selling items for 'hundreds of plat' taking advantage of anyone? If somebody is willing to give me 300 plat for a leather tunic, then I am not taking advantage of anyone, I'm simply giving them an item in return for an amount of plat they think it worth it to them.Hello Kitty Island Adventure ------>

bob777888

02-17-2010, 05:46 PM

<cite>TigTiger wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Carthrax wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Pauly@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>That's funny!! You've earned FABLED gear by trading LON cards? You think selling shinies is EARNING Fabled gear? You should have paid attention in school.</blockquote>Yup.. I do.. You earn the plat, and you pay for the gear.. Raid force gets what they want(plat for unwanted gear) and person gets what they want(gear for unwanted plat).. That'd be like saying you didn't "EARN" a Corvette, because you didn't build it... You didn't put in the time to learn how to build it, but you made the money to purchase it...</blockquote>That's like saying you "EARNED" the Corvette because you worked hard at your job, then cloned yourself a few times so they could work at other jobs while you took all the money from them, then bought several other cars and sold them to people at inflated prices so you could make enough money to buy your Corvette.Seriously if you can't see what's wrong with your thinking here then your never going to understand people who just want to play the game to enjoy the game and have fun doing it. The whole attitude of "i've got to have the best stuff in the game no matter what" is what drives alot of the game now, and drives alot of people to frustration with it. The game was created and intented to be played by one person, without a bot, playing one character at a time. Haveing 2 or 3 or 4 accounts and 2 or 3 or 4 boxing with the game was never intended to be a standard player strategy. I would bless the day SOE came out with something in a patch that only let you run one client at a time. But it will never happen. Why? Because more accounts = more money; and no matter how decent the people are who run the game and program the game ANYTHING that = more money without totaly exploiting the game and makeing more people quit than is generated in revenue = more money to program and reprogram things in the game to make them better, faster, or more fun.Dual boxing or more, buying lots of LoN cards and selling them for in game plat, selling loot rights to items in raids, these things to me are all on par with creating temp characters to make as much plat as possible to sell on a 3rd party website, or selling in game items on a website. The big difference is while both groups of things take advantage of people who dont think every minuet of the day about how they can get something better in the game, one group keeps the money going to SOE, while the other group gets all the money for themselves, and alot of times can result in money losses for SOE.And of course the primary issue in all of this for the poor SOE devs and programers and other people who are trying to keep the game fun and balanced is how does this effect the game and how we need to program it/change it?? And trying to factor all those things into anything that's done in the game its no wonder whole world content changes and such are years apart. I sympathize with anyone and everyone at SOE who has to think about how to factor these things into decisions they make as it just adds another layer of work onto whatever their main job might already be.My main point is this. If your doing something in the game that takes advantage of other people in the game, either because they dont know the people you do who have figured these things out, or maybe arnt as smart as you about how to do these things, or people who simply can't afford to have 2 or 3 different accounts, or don't have a system or the skills to 2 box or more in the game, simply adds in a larger or smaller way to the frustration or loss of enjoyment of the game who are simply trying to play the game as it was intended. Please try NOT to do it. I realize that my one comment here isn't suddenly going to change the way everyone plays the game, but I hope it does at least make some people stop and think a bit next time they try to sell something for 100's of plat in the game. MOST people in the game don't have access to that kind of funding, they don't have the time to play the game in any legitimate way that they would earn that much plat in a day or a week or even a month sometimes.The game is supposed to be fun people. If your doing something that irritates and takes advantage of a significant group of people in the game then where is the fun in that?Time to go get my Kerra Isle faction up some more so I can buy kitty things for my house. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>man if I could get a team of people to work for me and earn a profit from them Id be....and man if i could sell enough vettes at a mark up to have one for myself for free I'd be...a cheater? a successful businessman? a capitalist? is it the internet or just the video game generation that creates these ideas? I had a guy in another game complaining of what he called "profiting" buying items only to resell them at a hire price, his disdain for it made it sound like the guy handed out landmines to kids for a living, what the hell is wrong with these people?

Gothyia

02-17-2010, 06:24 PM

Well im not happy about the no grey shard. I have limited time to play. I still am not all t2 and not much chance of that now.Rarely have time for running a full long instance.Now with that said. This game is suppose to be fun / entertainment .. NOT another job. Dont we work enough in real life ..I dont mind the healthy challenges of fighting mobs etc.. but prolonging the agony of getting shards is just pretty sad.Green sharding is not an option for a solo fury or paladin.. it will not happen period.So Guess im screwed .. have to find other things to do in game.

TigTiger

02-19-2010, 12:54 PM

<cite>Lexli wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>TigTiger wrote:</cite><blockquote>My main point is this. If your doing something in the game that takes advantage of other people in the game, either because they dont know the people you do who have figured these things out, or maybe arnt as smart as you about how to do these things, or people who simply can't afford to have 2 or 3 different accounts, or don't have a system or the skills to 2 box or more in the game, simply adds in a larger or smaller way to the frustration or loss of enjoyment of the game who are simply trying to play the game as it was intended. Please try NOT to do it. I realize that my one comment here isn't suddenly going to change the way everyone plays the game, but I hope it does at least make some people stop and think a bit next time they try to sell something for 100's of plat in the game. MOST people in the game don't have access to that kind of funding, they don't have the time to play the game in any legitimate way that they would earn that much plat in a day or a week or even a month sometimes.The game is supposed to be fun people. If your doing something that irritates and takes advantage of a significant group of people in the game then where is the fun in that?</blockquote>How exactly do you know that boxing wasn't intended?And, because a group of people in the game can't afford to, don't have the skills too, were born with 8 thumbs and two fingers, and can't box, then I can't? And, I'm curious, how does my boxing affect your fun?I would also love to see the research you've done showing the % of people that don't have lots of plat. Or could it be that YOU don't, but just don't want to look like a noob. Fact of the matter is, its hard NOT to have that kind of cash with even a moderate playtime and casual playstyle if you make even the slightest effort. I'm currently leveling a bruiser, playing solo in the mornings at work since I can't box here, and with 2 hours a day at most M-F at level 65 I have over 400p, and I'm not even trying to make money - the broker and shinies/harvests are a beautiful thing.People like you really [Removed for Content] me off. Just because YOU can't do something, for whatever reason, you think that others that do have the ability should be pulled down to your level and not able to enjoy playing their way. Also, how is selling items for 'hundreds of plat' taking advantage of anyone? If somebody is willing to give me 300 plat for a leather tunic, then I am not taking advantage of anyone, I'm simply giving them an item in return for an amount of plat they think it worth it to them.Hello Kitty Island Adventure ------></blockquote>Ahhh. Self righteous in your indignation arnt you? If your earning 400pp playing 20 hour a week i'd like to know what your secret is, because i've never known anyone in this game that makes that kind of money playing the game.Simply stated 2 or more boxing is not an intented part of the game because I would challange you to find any programer or development artist in ANY game, not just an MMO, who would tell you "oh yea we made this game so that one person could play 2 different instances of the game on two different screens at the same time". Could you imagine trying to do that in a FPS game? And don't try to tell me i'm compareing apples to oranges because the point is it's still a game designed around one person playing it. Your idiocy at the concept that anyone would design or create a game so that people would be able to play 2 or more versions of it at the same time amazes me.I wont even bother to link or quote any game information that would indicate how the majority of people play as i'm sure you would refute it as either made up or bogus or "slanted" info. You might want to take a look at MMOGChart.com for a start, and do something more than just look at the little bit of info right on the front page. However rememeber SOE will never bite it's own foot as far as subscribers so you don't have to worry, the 2boxing empire is safe.People like YOU really [Removed for Content] me off. Just because you CAN do something you feel like it's your god given right to be able to do it the way you want, no matter what, and no matter how large or small an impact it may have on the game, forever. In the simplest terms possible, selling loot rights to items for hundreds of plat simply feeds into the mental attitude and economy of the game that haveing as much money as possible in the game is the MOST important thing. It feeds into people wanting to do nothing but find ways to earn money, and it also feeds into people buying money from 3rd party websites, which is truely a no no in game terms.So i'll issue you this challenge, which I am sure you will decline as anytime i've EVER asked this of someone in game or out at best I get vague answers about it. Share with us your vast wealth of godly knowledge about how you can play 20 hours a week on a lvl 65 character and earn 400pp on a regular basis. And yes I know all about finding shineys and selling them on the broker, I rarely pass a shiney in the game without picking it up. But even if I did that for 20 hours a week from the sales i've made i've never seen even 1/10th of this magical 400pp you seem to make.

EQPrime

02-19-2010, 01:15 PM

I made about 15p just running around doing quests in SF yesterday, and I made another 20p+ off of shinies and other harvests. RoK quests were similar in the amount of coin they gave out.As for 2-boxing not being intended, I suspect that 2-boxing is one of the main reasons autofollow exists. The game isn't designed around it but it's certainly friendly towards it. I'm sure Sony appreciates the extra subscriptions. I don't think you'll find many people agreeing with you that 2-boxing is taking advantage of other people. It would be like saying that having a friend or spouse who plays the same hours as you is taking advantage because you have a partner to kill with.If you don't want to spend 30, 50, or 100p on an item then you don't have to. Your belief that people with access to sizable amounts of plat are somehow cheating is completely flawed.

Te'ana

02-19-2010, 09:57 PM

<cite>TigTiger wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lexli wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>TigTiger wrote:</cite><blockquote>My main point is this. If your doing something in the game that takes advantage of other people in the game, either because they dont know the people you do who have figured these things out, or maybe arnt as smart as you about how to do these things, or people who simply can't afford to have 2 or 3 different accounts, or don't have a system or the skills to 2 box or more in the game, simply adds in a larger or smaller way to the frustration or loss of enjoyment of the game who are simply trying to play the game as it was intended. Please try NOT to do it. I realize that my one comment here isn't suddenly going to change the way everyone plays the game, but I hope it does at least make some people stop and think a bit next time they try to sell something for 100's of plat in the game. MOST people in the game don't have access to that kind of funding, they don't have the time to play the game in any legitimate way that they would earn that much plat in a day or a week or even a month sometimes.The game is supposed to be fun people. If your doing something that irritates and takes advantage of a significant group of people in the game then where is the fun in that?</blockquote>How exactly do you know that boxing wasn't intended?And, because a group of people in the game can't afford to, don't have the skills too, were born with 8 thumbs and two fingers, and can't box, then I can't? And, I'm curious, how does my boxing affect your fun?I would also love to see the research you've done showing the % of people that don't have lots of plat. Or could it be that YOU don't, but just don't want to look like a noob. Fact of the matter is, its hard NOT to have that kind of cash with even a moderate playtime and casual playstyle if you make even the slightest effort. I'm currently leveling a bruiser, playing solo in the mornings at work since I can't box here, and with 2 hours a day at most M-F at level 65 I have over 400p, and I'm not even trying to make money - the broker and shinies/harvests are a beautiful thing.People like you really [Removed for Content] me off. Just because YOU can't do something, for whatever reason, you think that others that do have the ability should be pulled down to your level and not able to enjoy playing their way. Also, how is selling items for 'hundreds of plat' taking advantage of anyone? If somebody is willing to give me 300 plat for a leather tunic, then I am not taking advantage of anyone, I'm simply giving them an item in return for an amount of plat they think it worth it to them.Hello Kitty Island Adventure ------></blockquote>Ahhh. Self righteous in your indignation arnt you? If your earning 400pp playing 20 hour a week i'd like to know what your secret is, because i've never known anyone in this game that makes that kind of money playing the game.Simply stated 2 or more boxing is not an intented part of the game because I would challange you to find any programer or development artist in ANY game, not just an MMO, who would tell you "oh yea we made this game so that one person could play 2 different instances of the game on two different screens at the same time". Could you imagine trying to do that in a FPS game? And don't try to tell me i'm compareing apples to oranges because the point is it's still a game designed around one person playing it. Your idiocy at the concept that anyone would design or create a game so that people would be able to play 2 or more versions of it at the same time amazes me.I wont even bother to link or quote any game information that would indicate how the majority of people play as i'm sure you would refute it as either made up or bogus or "slanted" info. You might want to take a look at MMOGChart.com for a start, and do something more than just look at the little bit of info right on the front page. However rememeber SOE will never bite it's own foot as far as subscribers so you don't have to worry, the 2boxing empire is safe.People like YOU really [Removed for Content] me off. Just because you CAN do something you feel like it's your god given right to be able to do it the way you want, no matter what, and no matter how large or small an impact it may have on the game, forever. In the simplest terms possible, selling loot rights to items for hundreds of plat simply feeds into the mental attitude and economy of the game that haveing as much money as possible in the game is the MOST important thing. It feeds into people wanting to do nothing but find ways to earn money, and it also feeds into people buying money from 3rd party websites, which is truely a no no in game terms.So i'll issue you this challenge, which I am sure you will decline as anytime i've EVER asked this of someone in game or out at best I get vague answers about it. Share with us your vast wealth of godly knowledge about how you can play 20 hours a week on a lvl 65 character and earn 400pp on a regular basis. And yes I know all about finding shineys and selling them on the broker, I rarely pass a shiney in the game without picking it up. But even if I did that for 20 hours a week from the sales i've made i've never seen even 1/10th of this magical 400pp you seem to make.</blockquote>Your anger is misplaced. Multi-boxing does not affect your gaming pleasure in any way.If multi-boxing is such a big no-no then perhaps SoE should return my subscription money for five of the six accounts I share with my husband, which SoE is well aware are linked and have never once suggested that I could only have one account active at any one time. Or they could just repay me for the cost of four computers, six 24 inch monitors, my cable internet subscription, and my gaming router. LOL I certainly doubt that will ever happen <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> People have been openingly multi-boxing EQ2 since day one and SoE has never once discouraged it.

moraeno

02-21-2010, 02:37 PM

omg just stop clogging up the forum with boringness...

d1anaw

04-08-2010, 11:32 AM

<cite>Mustang8259 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Is this for real? where is this info coming from? I hope SOE reconsiders, Grey shard run are how my wife and I primarily work to get our shards being as we play at such odd hours do to our work schedules, that would be a really ____ move by SOE if this really gets implemented...</blockquote>::::gasp:::: You mean you should be able to play the way you want to and not the way someone else thinks you should play? How dare you.

d1anaw

04-08-2010, 11:50 AM

<cite>Lateana@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>TigTiger wrote:</cite><blockquote>Your anger is misplaced. Multi-boxing does not affect your gaming pleasure in any way.</blockquote>If multi-boxing is such a big no-no then perhaps SoE should return my subscription money for five of the six accounts I share with my husband, which SoE is well aware are linked and have never once suggested that I could only have one account active at any one time. Or they could just repay me for the cost of four computers, six 24 inch monitors, my cable internet subscription, and my gaming router. LOL I certainly doubt that will ever happen <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> People have been openingly multi-boxing EQ2 since day one and SoE has never once discouraged it. </blockquote>Neither do the people who prefer to solo or small group. Neither do those who don't raid or want to go through instanced zones by using mentoring. Yet, there are a myriad of people out there proclaiming that those who prefer not to raid or group not be playing because they don't want to play the "right" way (their way). It's more of a control issue than anything else. Some have a burning need to control how others do anything in life even if it has zero bearing on their own life. I suspect it's mostly those who don't have lives outside of video games who have the most control issues over others who play the games. "Normal" people with lives, jobs and possibly families don't have 12-14 hrs a day to devote to playing video games and there are others who would simply prefer not to do so. Hard to believe I suppose. Why should they be told they shouldn't be playing or shouldn't be permitted to do certain things because they have the audacity to have a life or interest outside a video game?

Gaige

04-08-2010, 01:04 PM

<cite>TigTiger wrote:</cite><blockquote>Simply stated 2 or more boxing is not an intented part of the game because I would challange you to find any programer or development artist in ANY game, not just an MMO, who would tell you "oh yea we made thiSo i'll issue you this challenge, which I am sure you will decline as anytime i've EVER asked this of someone in game or out at best I get vague answers about it. Share with us your vast wealth of godly knowledge about how you can play 20 hours a week on a lvl 65 character and earn 400pp on a regular basis. And yes I know all about finding shineys and selling them on the broker, I rarely pass a shiney in the game without picking it up. But even if I did that for 20 hours a week from the sales i've made i've never seen even 1/10th of this magical 400pp you seem to make.</blockquote>If boxing wasn't intended they wouldn't let people do it. It started with EQ1 so it would've been very possible for the original EQ2 dev team to implement something that would nix boxing. They didn't however, because they obviously don't have a problem with it.If you don't have more than 1k plat in EQ2 now a days, you aren't trying.

Raknid

04-08-2010, 01:08 PM

Oakum

04-19-2010, 09:24 PM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>TigTiger wrote:</cite><blockquote>Simply stated 2 or more boxing is not an intented part of the game because I would challange you to find any programer or development artist in ANY game, not just an MMO, who would tell you "oh yea we made thiSo i'll issue you this challenge, which I am sure you will decline as anytime i've EVER asked this of someone in game or out at best I get vague answers about it. Share with us your vast wealth of godly knowledge about how you can play 20 hours a week on a lvl 65 character and earn 400pp on a regular basis. And yes I know all about finding shineys and selling them on the broker, I rarely pass a shiney in the game without picking it up. But even if I did that for 20 hours a week from the sales i've made i've never seen even 1/10th of this magical 400pp you seem to make.</blockquote>If boxing wasn't intended they wouldn't let people do it. It started with EQ1 so it would've been very possible for the original EQ2 dev team to implement something that would nix boxing. They didn't however, because they obviously don't have a problem with it.If you don't have more than 1k plat in EQ2 now a days, you aren't trying.</blockquote>Different people have different ways of playing and most of us don't mind someone elses play style as long as it doesn't impact ours unless we are elitest. Of course there are people who see anyone doing things differently then they did or what they think should be done as wrong. Sometimes I am one of them. Mostly I would hope that I am not.Its like the old Lincoln saying slightly change:You can make all the players happy some of the time, some of the players happy all of the time, but you cant make all the players happy all the time.We are simply too diverse. Some are happy making plat, some tradeskilling, some are happy grouping, some use it as stress relief playing solo after work, some of us have hours to play, some have an hour or less and some of cant play unless we have 23 other players with us with one person telling us what to do. (just a friendly poke at my fellow players who do nothing but log in to raid, lol). I do all playstyles. Thats just me though. No one else has to do it just like I do.SOE developers are the ones who has to choose the rules that keeps most of us playing the longest and entices new customers and since getting new and keeping old subscriptions is what pays their salary, I am sure that they will always do the best job they can at it and they also have much more data then we do to compare and work with in making thier decisions.Our inputs are also part of that data so we should also not hesitate to put them in but dont expect them to do what we want when we want it.

thephantomposter

04-19-2010, 09:42 PM

"So i'll issue you this challenge, which I am sure you will decline as anytime i've EVER asked this of someone in game or out at best I get vague answers about it. Share with us your vast wealth of godly knowledge about how you can play 20 hours a week on a lvl 65 character and earn 400pp on a regular basis. And yes I know all about finding shineys and selling them on the broker, I rarely pass a shiney in the game without picking it up. But even if I did that for 20 hours a week from the sales i've made i've never seen even 1/10th of this magical 400pp you seem to make."My lvl 37 ranger has just cleared 350p in broker sales alone. That is without trying, on my 80 bruiser, that is chump change compared to questing with him. This is from VOX, a low population server.So if someone's goal was to make coin and be on a high population server, cha ching!!!

Gothyia

04-21-2010, 12:35 AM

Ok let me get this right.. (i have been off a few days now perhaps a couple weeks) We can no longer Mentor down to do any dungeons? cuz if we unmentored in them they scale up to 80 plus.. if we are 80 plus.so What is the purpose of Mentoring to enjoy low lvl content with friends then? that is all done?If this is the case im will be cancelling.. thats my own view.I was very upset when i learned also that i could no longer achieve as a casual player to get shards on grey sharding.. to equip myself.I do not have the time to spend on Grouping for hours on end to complete a shard run for 1 or 2 shards .. i could have at least done 2 shard runs in 1 hour.. now my limited time as a casual player is lost..So basically all i have to do here for fun is craft and decorate housing. due to my casual situation. While most people hated grey sharding due to their playstyle they felt ppl should all be hardcore players or dont play the game .. I guess.Game is suppose to be fun when it seizes to be fun it is not a game anymore its a job. I dont need 2 jobs. thank you

Chakos

04-21-2010, 12:58 AM

<cite>Gothyia wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ok let me get this right.. (i have been off a few days now perhaps a couple weeks) We can no longer Mentor down to do any dungeons? cuz if we unmentored in them they scale up to 80 plus.. if we are 80 plus.so What is the purpose of Mentoring to enjoy low lvl content with friends then? that is all done?You can still mentor to enjoy low level content with friends -- just don't unmentor in an instance with them: stay mentored to them while enjoying said content with themIf this is the case im will be cancelling.. thats my own view.I was very upset when i learned also that i could no longer achieve as a casual player to get shards on grey sharding.. to equip myself.Shard gathering had never been intended to be entirely trivial; it was a bug that they took forever to remedy. If you wish to equip yourself, stick with content you can handle; can still mentor the zones to green con and unmentor. There is always the option to group for them as well -- nowadays, it is easy for a group to blast through a zone in 30 mins or less.I do not have the time to spend on Grouping for hours on end to complete a shard run for 1 or 2 shards .. i could have at least done 2 shard runs in 1 hour.. now my limited time as a casual player is lost..See last answer -- you can still easily get 2 shard runs done per hour, grouped. Your "limited" time as a casual player is not lost, unless you CHOOSE to give it up due to having to actually play the game.So basically all i have to do here for fun is craft and decorate housing. due to my casual situation. While most people hated grey sharding due to their playstyle they felt ppl should all be hardcore players or dont play the game .. I guess.You do not have to be hardcore to play the game. Period.Game is suppose to be fun when it seizes to be fun it is not a game anymore its a job. I dont need 2 jobs. thank youIt only *ceases* to be fun if you choose to limit yourself. Make any excuse you want about no Grey Shard Runs making the game a job, but that is just an excuse, and a lame one at that. Grey shard runs were hardly what one could call fun, they were just an efficient way to gain shards when you could not find a group to get them.</blockquote>

Eridu

04-21-2010, 01:41 AM

<cite>Chakos wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gothyia wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ok let me get this right.. (i have been off a few days now perhaps a couple weeks) We can no longer Mentor down to do any dungeons? cuz if we unmentored in them they scale up to 80 plus.. if we are 80 plus.so What is the purpose of Mentoring to enjoy low lvl content with friends then? that is all done?You can still mentor to enjoy low level content with friends -- just don't unmentor in an instance with them: stay mentored to them while enjoying said content with themIf this is the case im will be cancelling.. thats my own view.I was very upset when i learned also that i could no longer achieve as a casual player to get shards on grey sharding.. to equip myself.Shard gathering had never been intended to be entirely trivial; it was a bug that they took forever to remedy. If you wish to equip yourself, stick with content you can handle; can still mentor the zones to green con and unmentor. There is always the option to group for them as well -- nowadays, it is easy for a group to blast through a zone in 30 mins or less.I do not have the time to spend on Grouping for hours on end to complete a shard run for 1 or 2 shards .. i could have at least done 2 shard runs in 1 hour.. now my limited time as a casual player is lost..See last answer -- you can still easily get 2 shard runs done per hour, grouped. Your "limited" time as a casual player is not lost, unless you CHOOSE to give it up due to having to actually play the game.So basically all i have to do here for fun is craft and decorate housing. due to my casual situation. While most people hated grey sharding due to their playstyle they felt ppl should all be hardcore players or dont play the game .. I guess.You do not have to be hardcore to play the game. Period.Game is suppose to be fun when it seizes to be fun it is not a game anymore its a job. I dont need 2 jobs. thank youIt only *ceases* to be fun if you choose to limit yourself. Make any excuse you want about no Grey Shard Runs making the game a job, but that is just an excuse, and a lame one at that. Grey shard runs were hardly what one could call fun, they were just an efficient way to gain shards when you could not find a group to get them.</blockquote> </blockquote>People want to advance their characters in a way and time of their choosing. Maybe they want to raid but not "group" while getting properly geared. Maybe they don't ... gasp .... even maybe NOT want to raid but still, inexplicably but somehow rationally and therefore, justifiably expect to be able to advance their character(s) in a way they choose with or without the company they prefer to keep. How Dare They!How dare you care actually.I know for one i wouldn't want to group with say, someone spoutin such as that redness above. I'd have to read what got typed column inch after posturing chat column inch. Here I can just breeze by, snark and close the freakin window on the bombast.My main's a monk, I've had my crawfil of that fanbois noise and the digital inky ilk that spouts it, so I now I just flop 'em, when they're GREEN dude. Best scurry on to start a new topic of biyatch about how Monks are doin floppies when they should just get a group! /laugh.

Te'ana

04-21-2010, 02:29 AM

d1anaw

04-21-2010, 12:50 PM

<cite>Eridu wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote><cite>Gothyia wrote:</cite><blockquote>Game is suppose to be fun when it seizes to be fun it is not a game anymore its a job. I dont need 2 jobs. thank youIt only *ceases* to be fun if you choose to limit yourself. Make any excuse you want about no Grey Shard Runs making the game a job, but that is just an excuse, and a lame one at that. Grey shard runs were hardly what one could call fun, they were just an efficient way to gain shards when you could not find a group to get them.</blockquote> </blockquote></blockquote>You mean of course if one choose not to "limit himself or herself" to the way YOU see that the game should be played. Who died and left you in charge of how the game is "supposed" to be played? And who are you to decide what is "fun" for someone else? More importantly, why do you care? If it affected you and dimished how you get to play your game, then you would have the right to complain about how someone else spends his/her time and money. But it doesn't. So why is your money any greener than anyone else's and thus gives you the right to dictate how someone else should spend his/her time/ money?

Obadiah

04-21-2010, 01:04 PM

This conversation died two months ago when shards ceased to be meaningful. Just curious, why did you start it again?

Chakos

04-21-2010, 01:33 PM

First off, LOL @ those offended by my post.Secondly, nowhere did I say you have to play the game the way I do; also, I did not say that I had a problem with grey shard runs -- only that Sony had said being able to do them was a bug, and they finally fixed their bug. As far as flopping green zones, I have no problem with that, either... you will noticed I mentioned to mentor them to green to make them more easily handled solo, however you choose to do it at that point.To reiterate, I DO NOT CARE if someone were able to do grey shard runs or not, just that it is pointless to cry about it and that if the removal of the ability to do them is so devastating to your playtime then it may be time for you to move on. For crying out loud, what made the game fun for you prior to Shard runs being put into the game? Were they so game defining for you that nothing else is fun anymore?Eridu said: Maybe they don't ... gasp .... even maybe NOT want to raid but still, inexplicably but somehow rationally and therefore, justifiably expect to be able to advance their character(s) in a way they choose with or without the company they prefer to keep. How Dare They! Any player can do exactly that already, within the limits the game places on everyone, so I fail to see your point. If your "point" is that any character should be able to "justifiably" advance their character by being able to trivialize content and still reap the rewards, then it is incorrect. When grey shard runs were allowed to happen, it was still not something that should have been in place (zero risk yet max reward is not something that one can "justifiably expect"), but was justifiable in that it was allowable within the game to do so at the time. While Sony frowned on it, they said that it would be allowed to continue for the time being but that it would be a loophole that was closed at some point.My point in responding to him had been not "do it my way or no way", but that he could still accomplish the things he wanted (mentoring to experience content with lower level friends, complete 1 or 2 shard runs in 1 hour) within the time constraints and casual playstyle he has. There was no intention of coming across self-righteous (as Eridu also managed to do), though I suppose I can see how it can be interpreted that way -- the printed word does little to convey tone, often. The red highlight was also not intended to show anger, frustration or anything of the sort -- just to highlight my responses to his points within his quote.

Gothyia

04-21-2010, 10:29 PM

My point is everyone and i mean EVERYONE is entitled to play the game in their own style.. I DO Not want to be hardcore but im in a guild with Hardcore players.. it does not affect my game play at all. I like my guild. been it it going into 2nd year now. I am not someone who will log in and demand someone come help me come play with me come work for me.I try to do the best i can with the time i have to actually be gaming. There was a time i was a raider and had the time to spend at Raiding. for 3 months straight i nearly raided every night for 3 hours a night.Now i have a 2nd character that i have been working on who is 85 and has only t1 because of the change of shards are too hard to get to get a group on my server that still even do shard runs they are mostly doing new content. spending an hour for 2 shards what sorry maybe 3 shards 6 if you manage to get 2 runs done in 1 hour that is.. Yes I prefer to be able to go in not have to whine and beg people to get a group to go do a shard run. before i could just take care of what i needed without bugging anyone.THAT is my playstyle I enjoy the game in my style.. which now is casual. This game is by far the best game out even with it being almost old school game already.I do not expect eq2 devs will change it back cause its back to the ol thing of making gaming harder/ so you spend more time in game to achieve goals.. ( which was the marketing technique for eq1 and if you played that you know what im talking about) Just for a short while tho eq2 gaming was so so so enjoyable. while now its starting to look like a job again. DO not read my banter if you think im whining .. IM stating that I dislike what they did to the grey sharding. I am stating that i wondered after reading some place that people wouldnt be able to mentor and enjoy the game like the did which prompted me to post in the first place.Transfer to a pay to play server NO way.. haha that is beyond me, glad some people can afford to buy their shards in real life money.Even if i had the money i wouldnt .. never believed in going outside to buy things for in game. I do not like the Market place but thankfully its only for decoration / nothing of true Necessity would be on marketplace.I am figureing my toon is stuck in t1 now for always. til i decide to stop playing.ANd i do hate fanbois who think everyone that doesnt go HARDcore are lame and idiots and that we should all have NO LIFE outside of Eq2.. hah. One day you will wake up and realize what you have missed

Chakos

04-22-2010, 12:53 AM

<cite>Gothyia wrote:</cite><blockquote>ANd i do hate fanbois who think everyone that doesnt go HARDcore are lame and idiots and that we should all have NO LIFE outside of Eq2.. hah. One day you will wake up and realize what you have missed</blockquote>And I do hate those who claim those who don't think that reward should be given for trivial effort are somehow fanbois who think everyone should go hardcore. I am not a fanboi, nor am I hardcore or suggesting that anyone else has to be. Read what I have actually said as opposed to assuming having to make ANY effort whatsoever translates into HARDcore.

Valdaglerion

04-22-2010, 11:55 AM

<cite>Chakos wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gothyia wrote:</cite><blockquote>ANd i do hate fanbois who think everyone that doesnt go HARDcore are lame and idiots and that we should all have NO LIFE outside of Eq2.. hah. One day you will wake up and realize what you have missed</blockquote>And I do hate those who claim those who don't think that reward should be given for trivial effort are somehow fanbois who think everyone should go hardcore. I am not a fanboi, nor am I hardcore or suggesting that anyone else has to be. Read what I have actually said as opposed to assuming having to make ANY effort whatsoever translates into HARDcore.</blockquote>I agree with both points actually. There is a plethora of content to play your way. This of course means that you wont be able to do all the content if you choose anything less than a hardcore raiding playstyle but you can do most of it.As for being able to unmentor in the zones now - kudos. Its about time. Being able to trivialize the content has been horrible for the economy. For those that understand this, no explanation is necessary, for those that dont, none is possible.