What is the advantage to standing in the same spot for hours?

[Ena]

<p>Please forgive me if this is a redundant topic or if there is an obvious answer, but I'm a returning player and this seems bizarre to me.</p><p>As I've been leveling up in the Neriak area with a new character, I noticed a level 10 character logged in and standing.  As I progressed, I noticed he was still there.  I went to bed, got up, played another character, and logged back in my new character.  Nearly 12 hours later, he was still standing there!  He hasn't twitched, hasn't moved, nothing.  Then I noticed another character standing a little ways away, on a bridge.  3 hours later and they're both still there, just standing.  What is this and what is happening?  Why haven't they been flagged afk and bumped out?  With all of the server stability problems, why is this allowed?</p>

[Eveningsong]

<p>If it were just one person, I'd say perhaps they got called away and were unable or forgot to log out (or fell asleep at the computer as one of my friends has been known to do, lol).  But with 2, it sounds like you're seeing the ghosting effect that a few others have noted <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=468650" target="_blank">here</a>.  I'm pretty sure I saw the same thing during Frostfell, although its possible the person was just leaving themselves logged in so they could just click and talk to Santa Glug, but it seems unlikely they'd feel a need to do that for a once-a-day click over a week.</p>

[Yimway]

<p>They are bots designed to watch for contested spawns.</p>

[Dulissa]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>They are bots designed to watch for contested spawns.</p></blockquote><p>What contested spawn is there in Neriak starting area? Seriously, I don't know.</p>

[Crolack]

<p><cite>Toressa@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>They are bots designed to watch for contested spawns.</p></blockquote><p>What contested spawn is there in Neriak starting area? Seriously, I don't know.</p></blockquote><p>Don't you know. Stormpaw drops super UBER lewts. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[msgnomer]

<p>I used to see these "zombies" and wondered myself.  Then I encountered one such character and I knew for sure what had happened.  Game had crashed on me and when I logged back in, there was my doppleganger hanging out in my characters inn room until yesterdays patch.  So at least some of the time it's a bugged character....</p><p><a href="http://img715.imageshack.us/i/jolettejolette.jpg/"><img src="http://img715.imageshack.us/i/jolettejolette.jpg/" /></a></p>

[EQ2Magroo]

<p><cite>Enaru@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Please forgive me if this is a redundant topic or if there is an obvious answer, but I'm a returning player and this seems bizarre to me.</p><p>As I've been leveling up in the Neriak area with a new character, I noticed a level 10 character logged in and standing.  As I progressed, I noticed he was still there.  I went to bed, got up, played another character, and logged back in my new character.  Nearly 12 hours later, he was still standing there!  He hasn't twitched, hasn't moved, nothing.  Then I noticed another character standing a little ways away, on a bridge.  3 hours later and they're both still there, just standing.  What is this and what is happening?  Why haven't they been flagged afk and bumped out?  With all of the server stability problems, why is this allowed?</p></blockquote><p>Without even looking to the left of your post, I can tell you are on AB server.</p><p>This is what some people call a "zombie" or "ghost" session and it's what AB seems to do a lot apparently if your connection crashes out in a particular way. It's happened to me once in Fens, but cross fingers it's not happened for a while. I guess it's moved on and is affecting everyone else instead now <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>Toressa@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>They are bots designed to watch for contested spawns.</p></blockquote><p>What contested spawn is there in Neriak starting area? Seriously, I don't know.</p></blockquote><p>Heh I skimmed the post and figured he meant outside DLW.</p>

[Seidhkona]

<p>I've been known to carefully type "/camp desktop" then forget to hit ENTER, and I come back the next morning to find my toon has stood there and sucked up drink all night /frowns...</p>

[Rijacki]

<p><cite>Sigrdrifa@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I've been known to carefully type "/camp desktop" then forget to hit ENTER, and I come back the next morning to find my toon has stood there and sucked up drink all night /frowns...</p></blockquote><p>I did that... but went to work and got home to find two 5 hour drinks sipped away <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[hellfire]

<p>Hell i have left toon logged in the whole time i was on 5 day cruise.I just forget to log out.It is a game and not important enough to remember to log out alot of times say if getting ready to go out for the night and such.</p><p>Pretty much people just forget to camp out is the reason.</p>

[mikbove]

<p><cite>Bigron@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Hell i have left toon logged in the whole time i was on 5 day cruise.I just forget to log out.It is a game and not important enough to remember to log out alot of times say if getting ready to go out for the night and such.</p><p>Pretty much people just forget to camp out is the reason.</p></blockquote><p>blimey I dread to think what your electricity bill must be like lol</p>

[hellfire]

<p><cite>mikbove wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Bigron@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Hell i have left toon logged in the whole time i was on 5 day cruise.I just forget to log out.It is a game and not important enough to remember to log out alot of times say if getting ready to go out for the night and such.</p><p>Pretty much people just forget to camp out is the reason.</p></blockquote><p>blimey I dread to think what your electricity bill must be like lol</p></blockquote><p>Its normal.... my screen turns off after 30 mins.I never turn my comp off period so its just something else that stays on  like the microwave...cable box..modem..phone..ect ect.</p><p>Just looked at my electric bill and it was 76 dollars.....so uyeah its normal.</p><p>And actually no one that i know turns there comp off....its actually better to keep it on i believe.</p>

[Gaige]

<p><cite>mikbove wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>blimey I dread to think what your electricity bill must be like lol</p></blockquote><p>It normally ends up costing maybe an extra $5 bucks a year to run your computer 24/7 but its actually better for the components.  I have 3 computers here and I never turn them off, ever.  I restart them every month or so, but other than that they run 24/7.</p>

[hellfire]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>mikbove wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>blimey I dread to think what your electricity bill must be like lol</p></blockquote><p>It normally ends up costing maybe an extra $5 bucks a year to run your computer 24/7 but its actually better for the components.  I have 3 computers here and I never turn them off, ever.  I restart them every month or so, but other than that they run 24/7.</p></blockquote><p>Yep have followed the same practice ever since i can remember.</p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>mikbove wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>blimey I dread to think what your electricity bill must be like lol</p></blockquote><p>It normally ends up costing maybe an extra $5 bucks a year to run your computer 24/7 but its actually better for the components.  I have 3 computers here and I never turn them off, ever.  I restart them every month or so, but other than that they run 24/7.</p></blockquote><p>Actually, the cost of running a gaming rig 24x7, particularly under any kind of load (in game) is significantly higher.</p><p>If your average draw for your system is only 200 watts (which would be extremely low in this situation), the average yearly cost will run you $265.44 at a killowatt/hr bill rate of 14 cents.</p><p>Now, an idle pc that shuts down screens and disks will typically drop to a 35-90w draw depending on build.  But still if you figure killowatt hours based upon average draw, its significantly more than 5/year.</p>

[BMonkeeus]

Unless you own an uber solar powered PC!

[BetaEQ]

<p>                              The server's should have be able to handle tripple the population then what we have.Something is very wrong if a few folk's standing around makes a huge difference.It's nice I suppose that there looking for way's to make less lag and faster play but standing player's isnt the problem.You cant really market a game if it's at capacity and expect player's to stay.</p>

[Ena]

<p>Ok, well, it looks like there are a lot of theories.  You're right about my being on AB.  Hopefully they are working to fix it.</p>

[Melodee]

<p>Gotta love these derailed topics LOL. But yeah, I'm in total agreement that is prolly a ghost. I remember when I zoned out of my GH in SQ 10 minutes after a guildie had logged off, and she was standing there right outside the GH doors. Freaked me out. I don't think this is going to be solved any time soon on AB, not until they figure out how to lower the server load somehow. Just smile and wave, and know you're not insane ** giggles **</p>

[Thunderthyze]

<p>Speaking as a provisioner I am quite happy to see people leaving their characters logged in while they go to work/bed for whatever reason. Usually they leave auto consume on for food and drink and as such keep me in business.</p><p>I seem to remember a thread in this section last week with someone bemoaning the patch that stopped them being able to go afk in persistent zones. Maybe they are protesting......were they carrying placards?</p>

[MrWolfie]

<p><cite>Bigron@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>mikbove wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>blimey I dread to think what your electricity bill must be like lol</p></blockquote><p>It normally ends up costing maybe an extra $5 bucks a year to run your computer 24/7 but its actually better for the components.  I have 3 computers here and I never turn them off, ever.  I restart them every month or so, but other than that they run 24/7.</p></blockquote><p>Yep have followed the same practice ever since i can remember.</p></blockquote><p>No wonder the world is in the state it's in.</p><p>If you really believe it's only $5 of electricity for a year - you're kidding yourself. Leaving a lightbulb on all year round costs more than that. Irrespective, you're wasting resources and contributing to climate change.</p><p>"Oh, it's just me - making the change won't affect anything" Unfortunately there's millions of you individuals. You should act responsibly now and get everyone you know to do the same.</p><p>Also it's no longer true that leaving it running is better for the components, this hasn't been true since the early '90s.</p>

[bks6721]

<p><cite>Aemm@Splitpaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Bigron@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>mikbove wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>blimey I dread to think what your electricity bill must be like lol</p></blockquote><p>It normally ends up costing maybe an extra $5 bucks a year to run your computer 24/7 but its actually better for the components.  I have 3 computers here and I never turn them off, ever.  I restart them every month or so, but other than that they run 24/7.</p></blockquote><p>Yep have followed the same practice ever since i can remember.</p></blockquote><p>No wonder the world is in the state it's in.</p><p>If you really believe it's only $5 of electricity for a year - you're kidding yourself. Leaving a lightbulb on all year round costs more than that. Irrespective, you're wasting resources and contributing to climate change.</p><p>"Oh, it's just me - making the change won't affect anything" Unfortunately there's millions of you individuals. You should act responsibly now and get everyone you know to do the same.</p><p>Also it's no longer true that leaving it running is better for the components, this hasn't been true since the early '90s.</p></blockquote><p>I support global warming.  3 PC's, one laptop, one 42" flatscreeen tv on 24/7</p>

[guillero]

<p><cite>Aemm@Splitpaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Bigron@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>mikbove wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>blimey I dread to think what your electricity bill must be like lol</p></blockquote><p>It normally ends up costing maybe an extra $5 bucks a year to run your computer 24/7 but its actually better for the components.  I have 3 computers here and I never turn them off, ever.  I restart them every month or so, but other than that they run 24/7.</p></blockquote><p>Yep have followed the same practice ever since i can remember.</p></blockquote><p>No wonder the world is in the state it's in.</p><p>If you really believe it's only $5 of electricity for a year - you're kidding yourself. Leaving a lightbulb on all year round costs more than that. Irrespective, you're wasting resources and contributing to climate change.</p><p>"Oh, it's just me - making the change won't affect anything" Unfortunately there's millions of you individuals. You should act responsibly now and get everyone you know to do the same.</p><p>Also it's no longer true that leaving it running is better for the components, this hasn't been true since the early '90s.</p></blockquote><p>People that spend 10-12 hours a day in a game no longer differentiate fantasy from reality. Didn't you know?</p>

[Consolati]

<p><cite>Pauly@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Aemm@Splitpaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Bigron@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>mikbove wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>blimey I dread to think what your electricity bill must be like lol</p></blockquote><p>It normally ends up costing maybe an extra $5 bucks a year to run your computer 24/7 but its actually better for the components.  I have 3 computers here and I never turn them off, ever.  I restart them every month or so, but other than that they run 24/7.</p></blockquote><p>Yep have followed the same practice ever since i can remember.</p></blockquote><p>No wonder the world is in the state it's in.</p><p>If you really believe it's only $5 of electricity for a year - you're kidding yourself. Leaving a lightbulb on all year round costs more than that. Irrespective, you're wasting resources and contributing to climate change.</p><p>"Oh, it's just me - making the change won't affect anything" Unfortunately there's millions of you individuals. You should act responsibly now and get everyone you know to do the same.</p><p>Also it's no longer true that leaving it running is better for the components, this hasn't been true since the early '90s.</p></blockquote><p>I support global warming.  3 PC's, one laptop, one 42" flatscreeen tv on 24/7</p></blockquote><p>Why are you sharing that?</p>

[Consolati]

<p><cite>Bigron@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>mikbove wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Bigron@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Hell i have left toon logged in the whole time i was on 5 day cruise.I just forget to log out.It is a game and not important enough to remember to log out alot of times say if getting ready to go out for the night and such.</p><p>Pretty much people just forget to camp out is the reason.</p></blockquote><p>blimey I dread to think what your electricity bill must be like lol</p></blockquote><p>Its normal.... my screen turns off after 30 mins.I never turn my comp off period so its just something else that stays on  like the microwave...cable box..modem..phone..ect ect.</p><p>Just looked at my electric bill and it was 76 dollars.....so uyeah its normal.</p><p>And actually no one that i know turns there comp off....its actually better to keep it on i believe.</p></blockquote><p>That's cheap but of course you're still burning a lot of fossil fuels in U.S. America.</p>

[agnott]

<p>Moral to the story. Just pay attention to what your doing and don't worry about anybody else.</p><p>I find the number of things to do in this game is staggering, there is no time to spare for anything else.</p>

[Killque]

<p>I pretty much stay logged in all the time myself. I can just sit down and start playing. May sound a bit daft, but not having to login and all is kind of nice =)</p>

[treebouncer]

<p><cite>Killque wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I pretty much stay logged in all the time myself. I can just sit down and start playing. May sound a bit daft, but not having to login and all is kind of nice =)</p></blockquote><p>Yeah i tend to stay logged in a lot too if the game wont bump me. Saves login time, and i dont shut down my comp anyway (heard booting up is harder on your comp then leaving it on). I have also fallen asleep on my keyboard camping rare spawns (wakeing up with waffle cheek FTW). I have also seen this ghosting, where for some reason the character stands there, forever even tho the actual person is not online.</p>

[Saihung23]

<p>It all depends on the spot where you stand.</p><p>I used to stand out front of the arcade all the time when I was younger and I would get tokens given to me by people who had to leave and still had tokens.</p><p>I played alot of Dig Dug that way.</p><p>Some spots are great for standing.</p>

[Rohaise]

<p><cite>Consolation wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Pauly@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Aemm@Splitpaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Bigron@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>mikbove wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>blimey I dread to think what your electricity bill must be like lol</p></blockquote><p>It normally ends up costing maybe an extra $5 bucks a year to run your computer 24/7 but its actually better for the components.  I have 3 computers here and I never turn them off, ever.  I restart them every month or so, but other than that they run 24/7.</p></blockquote><p>Yep have followed the same practice ever since i can remember.</p></blockquote><p>No wonder the world is in the state it's in.</p><p>If you really believe it's only $5 of electricity for a year - you're kidding yourself. Leaving a lightbulb on all year round costs more than that. Irrespective, you're wasting resources and contributing to climate change.</p><p>"Oh, it's just me - making the change won't affect anything" Unfortunately there's millions of you individuals. You should act responsibly now and get everyone you know to do the same.</p><p>Also it's no longer true that leaving it running is better for the components, this hasn't been true since the early '90s.</p></blockquote><p>I support global warming.  3 PC's, one laptop, one 42" flatscreeen tv on 24/7</p></blockquote><p>Why are you sharing that?</p></blockquote><p>Probably because he is aware that despite the verbal chastisement by Aemm, anthropogenic contribution to global warming is insignificant, if anything.</p><p>To the original poster: More than half of my logged-in time is spent doing exactly what you observed.  I.E. AFK.  Away from Keyboard.  Sleeping, eating, taking care of business, or whatever.  There's nothing nefarious about it, and the only advantage is not having to log in and out every time I step away just in case I get distracted and don't come right back to the game.  I can't imagine that static, unmoving characters in an uninstanced zone are contributing in any real significant way to server instability any more than, well, my real life breathing (particularly, exhaling) is contributing to global warming, at least according to the EPA.</p>

[treebouncer]

<p><cite>Aemm@Splitpaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Bigron@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>mikbove wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>blimey I dread to think what your electricity bill must be like lol</p></blockquote><p>It normally ends up costing maybe an extra $5 bucks a year to run your computer 24/7 but its actually better for the components.  I have 3 computers here and I never turn them off, ever.  I restart them every month or so, but other than that they run 24/7.</p></blockquote><p>Yep have followed the same practice ever since i can remember.</p></blockquote><p>No wonder the world is in the state it's in.</p><p>If you really believe it's only $5 of electricity for a year - you're kidding yourself. Leaving a lightbulb on all year round costs more than that. Irrespective, you're wasting resources and contributing to climate change.</p><p>"Oh, it's just me - making the change won't affect anything" Unfortunately there's millions of you individuals. You should act responsibly now and get everyone you know to do the same.</p><p>Also it's no longer true that leaving it running is better for the components, this hasn't been true since the early '90s.</p></blockquote><p>So im asuming you walk to work, because if mass transit systems contribute to global warming.</p><p>You dont eat meat, cause methane production from livestock fecal matter is said to be just as bad for the atmosphere as burning fossil fules</p><p>You dont touch anything that cant be recycled.</p><p>You grow your own organic vegatables, because the vehicles that harvest our vegatables put out harmfull contaminates...</p>

[treebouncer]

<p><cite>Roboto@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It all depends on the spot where you stand.</p><p>I used to stand out front of the arcade all the time when I was younger and I would get tokens given to me by people who had to leave and still had tokens.</p><p>I played alot of Dig Dug that way.</p><p>Some spots are great for standing.</p></blockquote><p>YOU WERE ONE OF THOSE KIDS!</p><p>ME walking out of arcade</p><p>Kid have any extra tokens</p><p>Me yup</p><p>kid can i have them?</p><p>me no, get your own.</p>

[lameforumhandle]

<p><cite>treebouncer wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So im asuming you walk to work, because if mass transit systems contribute to global warming.</p><p>You dont eat meat, cause methane production from livestock fecal matter is said to be just as bad for the atmosphere as burning fossil fules</p><p>You dont touch anything that cant be recycled.</p><p>You grow your own organic vegatables, because the vehicles that harvest our vegatables put out harmfull contaminates...</p></blockquote><p>My thoughts exactly. If someone were so environmentally righteous that they could not improve anything... they would not have electricity nor use a computer. Nobody knows what any of the other posters on this thread sacrifice for the sake of the environment and it's really nobody's business to criticize power use on a forum for a hobby in which <strong>we all use power.</strong> </p><p>I also leave my computers on year round with my monitor set to sleep after an hour. Our electric bill is very reasonable and was in fact $20.00 a month or less in the small apartment my boyfriend and I used to live in during months when the electric heat was not required.</p>

[treebouncer]

<p><cite>Cythera@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>treebouncer wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So im asuming you walk to work, because if mass transit systems contribute to global warming.</p><p>You dont eat meat, cause methane production from livestock fecal matter is said to be just as bad for the atmosphere as burning fossil fules</p><p>You dont touch anything that cant be recycled.</p><p>You grow your own organic vegatables, because the vehicles that harvest our vegatables put out harmfull contaminates...</p></blockquote><p>My thoughts exactly. If someone were so environmentally righteous that they could not improve anything... they would not have electricity nor use a computer. Nobody knows what any of the other posters on this thread sacrifice for the sake of the environment and it's really nobody's business to criticize power use on a forum for a hobby in which <strong>we all use power.</strong> </p><p>I also leave my computers on year round with my monitor set to sleep after an hour. Our electric bill is very reasonable and was in fact $20.00 a month or less in the small apartment my boyfriend and I used to live in during months when the electric heat was not required.</p></blockquote><p>OMG my homes electric bill (before i got married, wife is coldophobic i swear) would go from 160 dollars in the summer (yay texas) to 45 dollars in the winter v(yay texas) because i just turned the A/C/heater completely off.</p>

[lameforumhandle]

<p>Yup... we live in the Pacific Northwest and really only use the heat when the temperature outside is below freezing. Otherwise we just put on another sweatshirt. Most people here don't have air conditioners or only have a small one - and most of those people didn't own one before the unusually hot summer we had here last year.</p>

[agnott]

<p>My favorite is Al Gore "flying" to pick up is Nobel Prize for his work on global warming.</p><p>You can't make this stuff up.</p>

[agentsix]

<p>I wonder if it was someone with a second account (RAF) standing around giving the 200% bonus to another toon elsewhere in the zone.</p>

[Gaige]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Actually, the cost of running a gaming rig 24x7, particularly under any kind of load (in game) is significantly higher.</p><p>If your average draw for your system is only 200 watts (which would be extremely low in this situation), the average yearly cost will run you $265.44 at a killowatt/hr bill rate of 14 cents.</p><p>Now, an idle pc that shuts down screens and disks will typically drop to a 35-90w draw depending on build.  But still if you figure killowatt hours based upon average draw, its significantly more than 5/year.</p></blockquote><p>I never said I run it under load 24/7, you do realize computers have the "sleep" function, right?  I simply turn my monitor off and have the system set to sleep if idle for 30 mins, so my cost is significantly less than $265 a year.</p><p>In fact, according to this, sleep and off use almost the same amount of electricity.</p><p><a href="http://michaelbluejay.com/electricity/computers.html">http://michaelbluejay.com/electrici.../computers.html</a></p><p>As for everyone else complaining about killing the planet, as if I can control it.  I could be as green as possible and a comet could hit Earth, so why should I waste my time?</p>

[Trellium]

<p>We have 5 computers, all are left on 24/7. The monitors are not on though. The cost is tiny but I have seen far too many of my hard drives crap out when I was turning my systems on and off. The computers just seem to have fewer issues when the temperature and humidity inside are steady.</p><p>Usually we log out of the game, but that's hardly a rule. Sometimes I stay in game by error (forget to camp, or typo it), sometimes I think I am coming back soon and don't want to lose the chat text (only to remember a few days later), or sometimes just to test to see how steady the game is on my system over time.</p><p>But, the overall energy usage is small and our house in general is way below normal. Like Cythera, we are in the Pacific Northwest and "climate change" from summer to winter is resolved by extra clothing. Our cooking and heating are propane based, and probably the worst offenders for our energy are the fridge (it was delivered by Moses himself), and the washer/dryer which we old the day the fridge arrived. :p  There are no street lights for about 5 miles in any direction, so even the neighborhood usage is small.</p>