Improving my Healing Ability in WOE [Archive]

kevincann

01-11-2010, 05:54 PM

I'm a shaman in group 2 of a weekly WOE raid.I wear 3 pieces of T2 and 3 pieces of T3. I have my fabled, but not my mythical.All my important spells are mastered and most of the rest are expert.I am loaded up with resist jewelry.For AA, I have 170 AA. I'm purely a heal-spec. At present, I'm all the waydown the wis line and abandoned the doggie in the STR line and tookthe sped up cures.We have cleared up to Diakara (spelling) 4 times now, though it takes usabout 4 tries to kill him/her, as we are still relatively new to curing our owndetriments and getting geared up.My "problem", is that my raid tank isn't completley happy with my healingperformance - in particular my poor heal parse numbers. I'm onlydoing about 500 HPS.Now, before Diakara (spelling) we often do flawless victories... so I can'tbe doing that badly... Also, sometimes I'm the only healer in group 2,and there is no Illy/coercer there, just a troubie... so not having mymythical, I'm always running out of mana if i'm not careful... so I can'tafford to get into a steady rhythm to maintain those heal parse numbers...In group 2, I'm often curing people with 2 or 3 detriments... i'm curing curseof course.. i'm debuffing.. and for Digg I even DPS at the critical point..In short, to be frank, i'm pretty angry, that i'm being told I need to improvemy heal parse numbers, when I'm often solo healing and don't have enoughmana regen to support me, and trying to keep the raid from wiping bycuring people who aren't good at curing or have too many detriments...I also use alacrity and other things... i'm a very busy healer.Now I formerly was wearing manawell and soulsiphon and pondwash and allthat... but I was dying constantly due to failing resists... now I don't die muchdue to aoe... most of my resists are 12,000+ - I don't want to lose my resists..Now I understand that there is always room for improvement... and I wish toimprove... but I feel i'm not supported very well in group 2, and I really thoughtI should get an attaboy, not a stern reply.. Now I know the MT is just trying tobe helpful... and he's a good guy... but... well anway... i'm human too..Now.... given my situtaion, i'm looking for advice on optimising my casting orderand AA's and gear I guess (I won't be able to get a mythical... we are too small)so that I can make the raid tank happy with a hypothetical BS heal parse number.Any reasonable input would be valued.

Baccalarium

01-11-2010, 07:49 PM

You didn't say if there was a mystic or defiler in group 1. If there is then it seems like you will only be doing main tank healing when the s*** hits the fan. If its a defiler in group 1, then you can likely use torper as appropriate but that by itself isn't going to get you massive heal numbers. In an off tank group I usually keep the main tank or the mob targetted (depending on agro/encounter), so I can direct heal and even ward whenever it looks like the extra boost is needed, use group ward about as often as its up to protect my group, and use prophit UI click to cure/click to heal to manage cures and spot heals in my group, but still I won't heal parse anywhere near what I do when in the main tank group. It makes no sense for out of group shaman to waste both our power's by trying to fight with the main tank group shaman for wards though, even though sometimes I make the attempt just for amusement.I've got about the same mix of t2/t3 as you do it sounds like, though I often drop t3 helm for the rune etched helm for a bit more buffer in an off tank group. Even if you're a small raid group, its possible to go to shard of hate and hit the first mob on the right to try to pick up the helm with 2-3 groups.Its been a long time since I've heard of any shaman suggesting that the main tank shaman do just group wards and the second group shaman do all the single target warding on the tank. I have my doubts of the efficacy of such an approach but it would give you a much bigger heal parse <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />

Gahnand

01-11-2010, 08:02 PM

500hps is way too low. If you aren't running ACT, I suggest you get it and take a look at your Outgoing Heals. Look at them across a lot of fights -- ones you do well, and ones you don't. Look at the breakdown of HPS of the different heals you are casting. Generally, the order (from most hps to least) should look similar** (NOT EXACTLY) to this:1st tier (power houses):Ancestral WardTranscendenceUmbral Warding2nd tier (gap fillers):Ritual HealingTorporRejuvenationRunic Armor3rd tier (misc.)Kindred RestorationRunic Barrier (from Runic Armor)Wards of EidolonEidolic WardSpirit TapAncestral BarrierProphetic Ward*the dog ward, the name escapes me atmThe 1st tier should be easily putting you over 1500hps. If it isn't, then you need to re-evaluate your casting order. If your tank is adequately geared, and you have a bard, you should be putting out around 2k hps to keep your group alive. Dayakara can require more if you are solo healing and your raid wide DPS is low because there are going to be a lot of adds and a lot more damage on your group and tank.Also, if you are running out of power and there is an enchanter in your group, then someone needs to have a heart to heart with that enchanter. The enchanter is the healer of the blue bar, if your blue bar goes away, then the group will die. Also, as a shaman it is easy to burn through power if you aren't managing your wards and refreshing them at the best time. I recommend going to eq2interface and looking up drum's maintained UI. It will tell you how much damage your wards have left on them (assuming you aren't already using profit of course).Aside from those tips, make sure you check the basics which are covered all over this forum and others: gear, casting order, AA spec.Hope that helps...-gahn

Gahnand

01-11-2010, 08:05 PM

P.S. If you are in group 2, and you are keeping your group alive, then you are doing everything right and disregard the HPS. If the MT has aggro, and he is dying, then your MT healers are failing, not you. If you want to help with the MT, do single target heals and torpor every time it's up. Don't override MT shaman's wards, and ultimately, your only responsibility is to keep your group alive. Not having a high heal parse is something shamans have to live with if they don't have a tank in group.

kevincann

01-11-2010, 08:53 PM

<cite>Gahnand@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>500hps is way too low. If you aren't running ACT, I suggest you get it and take a look at your Outgoing Heals.</blockquote> I'm definitely going to get ACT and do as you suggest... i'm just starting to turn into a 'professional' but casualraider. To me, i've never cared about parse numbers, if nobody dies and we do well, or in woe, if only a couple peopledie and I can get them right back up and we succeed. But my raid MT is a former professional, full-time raider and hegoes by the numbers....Now a bit more info... I should have included;In group 1, the MT group, there is a defiler and a templar and a coercer and a bard.Even with all that heal-power, they struggle to keep the MT up, and I often "sneak him heals"even though I'm not supposed to.The reason why, is that I'm supposed to be warding the off-tank, in case the MT goes down,so he can pick it up.But since I am sometimes the only healer in group 2, and never have enough mana, it's actuallyimpossible for me to keep the OT up if the MT dies... only when I have another healer in group 2can I pull it off... so I'd rather help keep the MT alive, than to try and fail to keep the OT upwhen the MT goes down.When things are going well in group 1, I generally don't have that much healing to do in group 2...our SK MT keeps agro so well... and often even tanks the adds rather than the OT, because theMT is so skillful and equiped, that the poor OT can't remotely compete with him yet. He's not anSK either.So if My group 2 isn't taking that terrible much damage (really only after a lifeburn or right aftersome AOE ticks) - and I'm not supposed to be spot healing anybody in group 1.. and i'm supposedto be doing all the other things (curing, curing curse, debuffing, buffing alacrity and what not)I just don't see how i'm supposed to be parsing high on the heal parse.Also, as an aside... i've never used Torpor... in fact I don't think that any of our shammies are using it..I mean it slows the target down... that sounds like it would mess with dps & hate. Could you discussthe use of torpor?Also, I find myself not using the wisdom line cross thingy ability to boost heal power very much,as it doesn't affect wards.. and if I'm desperate to heal, usually using a group heal, I often feelI don't have the time to click that heal buff first or someone will die.. so I don't wind up usingit much.I formerly used the doggie, but I was always far from certain that the wards from the doggiedid that much... and I forgot to send the doggie in 1/2 the time.Could you please comment on the wisdom line heal buff and the doggie.Thanks.

Gahnand

01-11-2010, 09:25 PM

Let me try to address everything I can:If you are in an OT group, then it is your one and only job to keep the OT alive. If this means your heal parse is low, then you should be casting lots of debuffs and trying to DPS. In a raid, it's not the job of the entire raid to keep the MT up. It's the job of the MT healers. Yes, the other healers should help as often as they can, but you never neglect your primary responsibility. If your group wipes because you are trying to keep the MT up, then you will wipe the raid. The utility and DPS that EVERY group provides makes up the greater effectiveness of the raid. If your group is alive, and the MT wipes, then keep the OT up. You can do this best as a shaman by having him stacked with wards at ALL times. Have your OT make an assist macro to use on the MT. This way your OT will be targeting the mob, so you can stay on your OT and keep him healed while you cast debuffs. Also, you mentioned rezzes, for the raids you are doing right now, you shouldn't be rezzing. Dirges and necros should be rezzing.Torpor. This your best friend. Get in bed with it and be friends with it. In a raid setup, this stacks with wards and even other mystic's Torpor. It regenerates its ward and has a heal over time. Yes it comes at a price of movement and dps, but trust me, it's not even noticeable in a raid when you have everyone's buffs up.Power. I don't care what you are doing or what group you are in. If you are raiding, there better be a chanter who is feeding you power. Unless you raid in Sprint mode, then you should never run out of power. Don't forget that Spirit Tap is basically Channeling for mystics. Have a troub hit you with JCap, then hit spirit tap, then RoA your heavy dps in group. JCap will knock the reuse on your spirit tap down to like 2.8 minutes or so. ((I think u mentioned u don't have a myth, if you don't, you should try to get it))Ritual. You will get the most effectiveness out of that by using it before a big group heal (Transcendence). If your group gets smacked hard, hit Ritual and then the group heal. Some people macro ritual to their group heal so that everytime they cast a group heal it hits Ritual if it's up. I prefer to hit it myself with a mouse button shortcut, so I can save it for when I really need it.Dog. I would spec for your dog. The group ward proc is small, but it also has a non-direct AE prevent proc that is unpredictable but has huge potential; however, it will also give your melee utility with the AE haste plus it will put some DPS in your pocket. The truth is that for the raiders who "just go by the numbers", you will want some dps next to your name if your heal parse is only 500hps. Part of being a good shaman is knowing when you don't need to be chain casting wards and heals and when you need to be debuffing and melee-ing. Since you are kind of new to raiding, I wouldn't worry about this for now. Most important thing is to heal first."Sneaking Heals". Heals are OK. Wards are not.. EVER. You have to realize that even if you are like "OH CRAP, THE MT IS GOING TO DIE", the shaman in group is probably thinking the same thing and casting wards which are the shamans most powerful tool. If you cast a ward and the MT shaman cast a ward, one of you is going to override the other. This means you have basically wasted one of your casts. Heal and Torpor only.Heal Parse. You are absolutely right. If everyone lives, then the healers did their job. How much you heal is affected by many different things, and it only gets more complicated as you increase in raid size. Stone-skins, defensive buffs, gear. All of these things can turn ANY healer's parse into a joke. Healing is not like DPS. You cannot heal beyond a certain point (essentially, 100% health). Now, if you take a shaman and put him in a group without a tank, then well, there are going to be a lot of fights where your heal parse is low. The only time your heal parse should not be low is when the raid wipes ESPECIALLY if you have an OT in your group. Mystics provide a lot of utility and debuffs (and even dps if you please), so it's not all about heal parses. Also, another tip is that you can setup your ACT to show you how many cures everyone in raid did. This is great for a low-hps fight because if you did the most cures, then you are doing a good job. Especially in TSO.Search for older posts on AA lines. There is so much information already discussed... For someone who is new to raiding, your main focus should be healing, so in summary you should very strongly consider this spec:WIS: 4-7-4-8-1 (NEED THIS -- reuse!, ritual!, roa!)STA: 4-4-4-8STR: 4-6-4-8-1PS. In TSO do not waste an AA on the stupid raid rez... just sayin'

kevincann

01-11-2010, 09:51 PM

<cite>Gahnand@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Let me try to address everything I can:</blockquote> I'll take your advice. Thanks. That was helpful.

Gahnand

01-11-2010, 10:08 PM

I'm glad. A trick with the dog is to macro /pet attack to your debuffs or your attacks. That way you don't have to worry about sending the dog. Macros in general are very, very handy. For Mystics, here are som helpful macros: Ritual: Macro to your group heal Transcendence RoA: Macro to the most effective person in the group you are in (when I zone in, I look at group makeup and set it to always hit the same person. This will vary based on your own skill level. If you are really confident in the heals, then macro it to the highest dps outcome (usually sumoner or sorcerer), if the heals are going to be tough macro to the second healer or to the tank.) Dog: Macro /pet attack to your normal attacks. Torpor: In raid, if you set a macro to hit the MT with this, you won't have to worry about losing your current target JCap: If you have spirit tap, talk to your troub before you begin and show him the macro you will hit when you want JCap. If your troub is using a rotation JCap method, then I usually ask to be removed from the rotation so JCap is rdy when I call for it. There are a ton of uses. Take advantage of them when you can. The less you have to click, the better. cheers gahn

Banditman

01-11-2010, 11:37 PM

Chanter or no chanter, you should not be having power issues. Ever. You need 4 items with Manawell on them. Power problems solved.I guess I need to add a section to the Primer for this too.

Gahnand

01-12-2010, 12:09 AM

<cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote>Chanter or no chanter, you should not be having power issues. Ever. You need 4 items with Manawell on them. Power problems solved.I guess I need to add a section to the Primer for this too.</blockquote>If I had to put on power gear for WoE, I would be annoyed. There are some fights where power-gear is absofruitly necessary, but.. not in WoE.Manawell and pondwash items are great, and of course he should have them... but still... I'm not saying it's wrong to wear power gear when you need to, but I would make a stink about it if I had to for MOST fights where there is a chanter in my group.

kevincann

01-12-2010, 12:17 AM

<cite>Gahnand@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote>Chanter or no chanter, you should not be having power issues. Ever. You need 4 items with Manawell on them. Power problems solved.I guess I need to add a section to the Primer for this too.</blockquote>If I had to put on power gear for WoE, I would be annoyed. There are some fights where power-gear is absofruitly necessary, but.. not in WoE.Manawell and pondwash items are great, and of course he should have them... but still... I'm not saying it's wrong to wear power gear when you need to, but I would make a stink about it if I had to for MOST fights where there is a chanter in my group.</blockquote>When I first started WOE, I was wearing 4 manawell/soulsiphon/pondwash items. And I generally had no power problems.However when I went to the library for the first time, I fell over dead the instant I walked in .. and I had prewarded myselfas instructed. The next 4 times I went into the library, I instantly fell over dead.So... I took off all the manawell stuff and get the best possible resist gear I could find... I went from about 8,000average resist, to 12-13,000 average resist.Then I pretty much didn't die in the library anymore... while other people WERE dying.Those resists really are good... they make a huge difference. I am very loathe to take off the resist gear,no matter what my mana issues are. If I run low on mana and burn through my hearts and clarity potionsand what not... well then I guess my running out is the price we pay for not having a chanter in my group...but at least I don't fall down dead instantly and we have a chance...I suppose someone will say "balance". Well I don't know where the balance is... I don't know what minimumresists I need to survive the latter part of the zone. But 8k resists don't cut it, this i know.I suppose my crit mit is low... just 26% ... but agility is not a big priority for me..... and I'm wearing 3 pieces of T3and 2 pieces of T2 right now.. that's all the crit mit I can find without doing something stupid.

Arcanemundi

01-12-2010, 04:47 AM

The Tinkered Over-Clocked Manastones are priceless for emergency power. They can restore a large amount of power and have a decent reuse timer. Leveling Tinkering might suck for a few days, but once you get to max level you won't regret it. Plus, you get a deagro device, repair bot, three fake deaths, etc...

Harduc

01-12-2010, 06:03 AM

12k resists seems very high. I have had my conj, sk and dirge through Woe many times and none of them have over 8k resists, I think my dirge sits around 4k-5k even. The only time i die is if i get agro or a full room of books gets too close and we get hit by their aoe. Im Pretty sure you can at least give up some of the resist gear for manawell. Im sure that would help you alot. For many fights HPS doesnt mean much. In your case, where you have to keep the OT warded at all times, you are "wasting" a lot of power/HPS, while he is not taking any damage. That will hurt your parse.

Gahnand

01-12-2010, 02:35 PM

As you get better gear your resists will go up naturally. I haven't had the need to keep resist gear on me since RoK; however, keeping extra gear on hand is NEVER a bad idea. Inevitably, you are going to need power gear for fights that actually drain mana. There are no fights in WoE that drain mana, so imo, if you run out of power regardless of your gear, it's because the chanter failed.If you are still gearing up, you should put on the gear that is going to give you the most output. Focus on the basics. Read the gear threads, and let the chanters worry about power! I wouldn't worry about the resists in TSO unless you are below 5k for a specific damage type that you know is the center point of the fight. Don't just run around with resist gear that is going to give you the max. Focus on critmit, +base heal amount, + to heals, heal crit, runic recovery, casting speed. Later down the road you are going to want to grab +heal crit bonus, but it is unlikely you have access to much of that right now. Get your mythical and you will get a 300-400 hitpoint bonus to wards added pretty much instantly (30% of WIS).Also, I don't have my T4 BP, so I most often use the Leg. Shaman BP from Kurns [Void Touched Kunarkian Chains] that actually INCREASES power consumption by 5% over my Molton Eidolon or Umbral Warding BP. I never have a problem with power unless the chanter doesn't have their myth.The short point is: if you are gearing up, you need to maximize your healing ability. I would not sacrifice that for mana regen or resist until you get to fights like Anashti where power management is a raidwide effort.

iduckie

01-12-2010, 04:18 PM

Hmm..How much Heal gear do you drop for Resist? You really have to make sure your not dropping too much heal for resist, you should only need about 10k for most of the easier zones.Girdle of the Di'Zok SpiritaITEM 1457074043 388892313:Girdle of the Di'Zok Spirit/a andHoop of the Wastes HunteraITEM 1336780750 -164268856:Hoop of the Wastes Hunter/a Are my Go-To Items when I know I might need power. Now.. I almost want to pull my hair out when the subject "HPS" comes up. Your HPS really depends on alot of things. Really try to keep your Heal crit/Heal amount up when you switch out gear for power or resists.Your not going to get much HPS from a OT tank unless he/she is actually tanking. Warding the MT if there is a Defiler that isn't dead/afk can actually hurt more then help. For long stand-still fights Torpor is your friend, stick the tanks with it.Single target wards aren't just for MT's/OT's.. It's okay to ward the squishies. /winksDo you run ProfitUI? If you don't or don't want to you can always download just the Raid/Group window, it's great for quick cures.

kevincann

01-12-2010, 11:05 PM

<cite>Aliya@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hmm..How much Heal gear do you drop for Resist? You really have to make sure your not dropping too much heal for resist, you should only need about 10k for most of the easier zones.Girdle of the Di'Zok SpiritaITEM 1457074043 388892313:Girdle of the Di'Zok Spirit/a andHoop of the Wastes HunteraITEM 1336780750 -164268856:Hoop of the Wastes Hunter/a Are my Go-To Items when I know I might need power. Now.. I almost want to pull my hair out when the subject "HPS" comes up. Your HPS really depends on alot of things. Really try to keep your Heal crit/Heal amount up when you switch out gear for power or resists.Your not going to get much HPS from a OT tank unless he/she is actually tanking. Warding the MT if there is a Defiler that isn't dead/afk can actually hurt more then help. For long stand-still fights Torpor is your friend, stick the tanks with it.Single target wards aren't just for MT's/OT's.. It's okay to ward the squishies. /winksDo you run ProfitUI? If you don't or don't want to you can always download just the Raid/Group window, it's great for quick cures.</blockquote>When we pull the library, it seems about 1/3 of the books come at once... so that's why I am so fanaticalabout resists.I run 5xclicktocureandheal ... it works perfectly for a click to cure/heal interface. I don't want to fight withjava versions and all that.. I have to keep my computer on a particular java version for work.In response to a previous poster.. yes.. I'm planning on 400 tinkering or whatever.. but its gonna take a heckalong time.. I can't resist 'toys'. I'd do it for the cow launcher if nothing else.Thanks for all the good responses.. i've makde some AA & macro changes.. and am looking forward to castingthe dickens out of Torpor II. I can see it's a very useful spell that somehow has stayed off my entire guild's radar.-Kev

Banditman

01-13-2010, 10:09 AM

If you are dying in the library it's because your tanks suck.Remember how Bane Warding works too. It gives extra aggro (via damage) to the person who gets hit. So, if you cast the Ward, and get hit, it's a double whammy for aggro. Bane Warding is great for that fight, but, only if the tank can grab all the aggro.

SonnyA

01-13-2010, 12:33 PM

<cite>Gahnand@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>"Sneaking Heals". Heals are OK. Wards are not.. EVER. You have to realize that even if you are like "OH CRAP, THE MT IS GOING TO DIE", the shaman in group is probably thinking the same thing and casting wards which are the shamans most powerful tool. If you cast a ward and the MT shaman cast a ward, one of you is going to override the other. This means you have basically wasted one of your casts. Heal and Torpor only.</blockquote>I disagree.. If the MT is spiking, two shammies warding will be more effective than just one. Yes, one might overwrite the other, but one might also put one up when there's none on the tank. So unless you overwrite a mighty 7k ST ward with a feeble 2k ward you're not doing any harm to the MT. As long as you shammies keep a ST ward on your MT, the templar will get him back to full health.So if you want to increase your HPS, all you need to do is always have your group ward up. Always refresh it if it's up and your current has taken damage. Use torpor on the MT, and always use those ST wards on the MT if you have time (and power) for it. And make sure you send in the pet every time. I've macroed leg bite and pet attack to a hotbar, and then assigned that to my "q" key. It's easy to click that to send in the pet every fight.And try to use your group heal when it's most effective. Which is usually right after an AE. If you find yourself in the middle of casting your group ward when the AE hits, you're not timing it right. Group ward should be up before the AE hits, and the group heal should top off your group right after.

Gahnand

01-13-2010, 02:35 PM

<cite>SonnyA wrote:</cite><blockquote>I disagree.. If the MT is spiking, two shammies warding will be more effective than just one. Yes, one might overwrite the other, but one might also put one up when there's none on the tank. So unless you overwrite a mighty 7k ST ward with a feeble 2k ward you're not doing any harm to the MT. As long as you shammies keep a ST ward on your MT, the templar will get him back to full health.</blockquote>Don't follow this advice. It's terrible.

Arcanemundi

01-13-2010, 07:51 PM

With all the mobs nerfed to hell in TSO, I guess over warding is really not an issue anymore for most raiding guilds. When the expansion comes out though, over warding is proper in intense spiking situations. However, I have always sent a tell to the MT shaman when first meeting them asking if it was alright with them if I over ward when I felt it necessary. Most have answered "yes", except for one Shaman in a less than stellar raiding guild I thankfully left a while ago. In those "situations" where the MT Shaman is adamant about you never over warding their single target ward, you should probably reconsider just to avoid the drama. Although I have never heard a cogent reason not to over ward.Here is just one of many hypothetical examples of why overwarding is important in spiking situations:Scenario 1All wards and reactives are up, except emergency and Deathward.Mob hits for 22,000.Single Target Ward, Proc Wards, and Group Ward are gone.Tank takes direct damage, but reactives keep at 100%.Shaman & Cleric notices and que up a ward and reactive.Mob hits for 19,000.Tank down to red.MT Cleric and Shaman begin recasting their reactives and wards.Other healers in raid begin casting direct heals.Mob hits tank again for 6000.Tank dead.Scenario 2All wards and reactives are up, except emergency and Deathward.Mob hits for 22,000.Single Target Ward, Proc Wards, and Group Ward are gone.Tank takes direct damage, but reactives keep at 100%.Shaman & Cleric notices and recasts a single ward and reactive.Shaman & Cleric outside of group lands a ward and reactive on tank.Mob hits for 19,000.Tank looses health, but not in the red.MT Cleric and Shaman still recasting their reactives and wards.Other healers in raid begin casting direct heals.Mob hits for 6000.Tank survives attack.Scenario 2 seems better than scenario 1. This is also assuming all the healers in the raid have 100% of their attention on their maintained spells, and the tank's health, AND are not being interrupted or worrying about positioning (AoEs), curing, recast timers on their hot bars, DPS, etc.If the Shamans can't agree in overwarding, then hopefully the Clerics are a little less stubborn and work together.Gravitas Note: A Dirge can cast Gravitas on only one healer at a time, then that healer is immune to Gravitas for a while after it has worn off. A good Dirge will cast it on four seperate healers in raid since this maximizes the buff potential. Two of the four healers should be Shamans, the other two should be Clerics. If you have more than one dirge every healer in a raid should have an equal opportunity to have Gravitas. If every healer is geared similiar, then it is even more important that every Cleric and Shaman cast single targets on the MT in spiking fights.

Gahnand

01-13-2010, 08:41 PM

<cite>ArcaneMundi wrote:</cite><blockquote>Scenario 1All wards and reactives are up, except emergency and Deathward.Mob hits for 22,000.Single Target Ward, Proc Wards, and Group Ward are gone.Tank takes direct damage, but reactives keep at 100%.Shaman & Cleric notices and que up a ward and reactive.Mob hits for 19,000.Tank down to red.MT Cleric and Shaman begin recasting their reactives and wards.Other healers in raid begin casting direct heals.Mob hits tank again for 6000.Tank dead.Scenario 2All wards and reactives are up, except emergency and Deathward.Mob hits for 22,000.Single Target Ward, Proc Wards, and Group Ward are gone.Tank takes direct damage, but reactives keep at 100%.Shaman & Cleric notices and recasts a single ward and reactive.Shaman & Cleric outside of group lands a ward and reactive on tank.Mob hits for 19,000.Tank looses health, but not in the red.MT Cleric and Shaman still recasting their reactives and wards.Other healers in raid begin casting direct heals.Mob hits for 6000.Tank survives attack.Scenario 2 seems better than scenario 1. This is also assuming all the healers in the raid have 100% of their attention on their maintained spells, and the tank's health, AND are not being interrupted or worrying about positioning (AoEs), curing, recast timers on their hot bars, DPS, etc.If the Shamans can't agree in overwarding, then hopefully the Clerics are a little less stubborn and work together.Gravitas Note: A Dirge can cast Gravitas on only one healer at a time, then that healer is immune to Gravitas for a while after it has worn off. A good Dirge will cast it on four seperate healers in raid since this maximizes the buff potential. Two of the four healers should be Shamans, the other two should be Clerics. If you have more than one dirge every healer in a raid should have an equal opportunity to have Gravitas. If every healer is geared similiar, then it is even more important that every Cleric and Shaman cast single targets on the MT in spiking fights.</blockquote>I am basically rewriting this post in a non-flames format:Scenario 2 assumes that you are not landing wards and reactives when the MT healers are. It's a big assumption, and I would stick to casting single target heals.

Arcanemundi

01-13-2010, 08:58 PM

What if they were interrupted?

Window

01-13-2010, 09:03 PM

I'm a Defiler and 90% of the time I'm raiding with a Fury that has his mythical buff on me. This gives a huge amount of +heals, enough to cap the effects of +heals on my wards. My critical single target wards are much much higher than what the OT shaman can produce. If that OT shaman habitually over wrote my single target ward, the raids healing capacity would go down. There is no way to time single target wards.I suggest learning to throw your single target heals on the tank so that the mt shaman can focus on more effective warding. Keep the MT in green if you have the time and are not worrying about the OT. That is the best way IMO.<cite>ArcaneMundi wrote:</cite><blockquote>What if they were interrupted? </blockquote>Then the raid wasn't executing the script properly.

Arcanemundi

01-13-2010, 09:08 PM

<cite>Window wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm a Defiler and 90% of the time I'm raiding with a Fury that has his mythical buff on me. This gives a huge amount of +heals, enough to cap the effects of +heals on my wards. My critical single target wards are much much higher than what the OT shaman can produce. If that OT shaman habitually over wrote my single target ward, the raids healing capacity would go down. There is no way to time single target wards.I suggest learning to throw your single target heals on the tank so that the mt shaman can focus on more effective warding. Keep the MT in green if you have the time and are not worrying about the OT. That is the best way IMO.</blockquote>Most of the decent Shamans are at cap, or close to cap on the single target ward, so the Fury mythical has no bearing on this argument.

Gahnand

01-13-2010, 09:09 PM

<cite>ArcaneMundi wrote:</cite><blockquote>What if they were interrupted? </blockquote>How would you now if they were? You are again making an assumption. Even if the MT is at 100% health, all mystic single target heals increase max hp. So at WORST you will increase the MT's hp allowing for a bit more damage, but you still have to have faith in your fellow healers to do their job and not try to do it for them.I'm not going to say that what you are saying is impossible or will never yield a benefit; I'm just trying to point out that based on probability and best possible outcome, you should stick to single target heals.

Gahnand

01-13-2010, 09:10 PM

<cite>ArcaneMundi wrote:</cite><blockquote>Most of the decent Shamans are at cap, or close to cap on the single target ward, so the Fury mythical has no bearing on this argument.</blockquote>lulz. if u take +base into account, i'm not so sure that this is true. Admittedly, I don't have the best jewelry, but I've sacrificed on +heals for +base and +heal crit bonus while focusing on keeping my heal crit at 100% in raid. +base obviously allows for higher +heals soo... idk if fury clicky is COMLETELY irrelevant even on the single target ward.. Also u mentioned that your strategy is not worth on this expansion, but will be in SF, which I know +base is getting a huge bump, but then again that undoes the fury mythical. lol what were we talking about?

Arcanemundi

01-13-2010, 09:17 PM

<cite>Gahnand@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ArcaneMundi wrote:</cite><blockquote>What if they were interrupted? </blockquote>How would you now if they were? You are again making an assumption. Even if the MT is at 100% health, all mystic single target heals increase max hp. So at WORST you will increase the MT's hp allowing for a bit more damage, but you still have to have faith in your fellow healers to do their job and not try to do it for them.I'm not going to say that what you are saying is impossible or will never yield a benefit; I'm just trying to point out that based on probability and best possible outcome, you should stick to single target heals.</blockquote>I don't assume anything when spike damage is landing on the MT. I assume that things are going to go wrong, especially on new encounters like the ones we will all be learning in the next couple months. If the MT is at 90 or 100% when I land a direct heal on him, that heal is basically useless. If I land a ward instead then it make so much more difference. It is the Druids that have the responsibility to vast direct heals, not Shamans.

Arcanemundi

01-13-2010, 09:19 PM

<cite>Gahnand@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ArcaneMundi wrote:</cite><blockquote>Most of the decent Shamans are at cap, or close to cap on the single target ward, so the Fury mythical has no bearing on this argument.</blockquote>lulz. if u take +base into account, i'm not so sure that this is true. Admittedly, I don't have the best jewelry, but I've sacrificed on +heals for +base and +heal crit bonus while focusing on keeping my heal crit at 100% in raid. +base obviously allows for higher +heals soo... idk if fury clicky is COMLETELY irrelevant even on the single target ward.. Also u mentioned that your strategy is not worth on this expansion, but will be in SF, which I know +base is getting a huge bump, but then again that undoes the fury mythical. lol what were we talking about?</blockquote>Depending on your gear cap should be around 1500 to 1700 on Ancient Aegis.

Gahnand

01-13-2010, 09:21 PM

lol druidscasting single target heals is never COMPLETELY pointless cuz of the hp boost.i guess... agree to disagree

Arcanemundi

01-13-2010, 09:24 PM

<cite>Gahnand@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>lol druidscasting single target heals is never COMPLETELY pointless cuz of the hp boost.i guess... agree to disagree</blockquote>HPS boost is max around 800. A ward is around 5000. Hmm.....

Gahnand

01-13-2010, 09:24 PM

also +1500 is a lot. i'm a "decent" shaman, and I do not have 1500, and I have 6 set and all fabled gear. if u really want to win this thread by pointing out that all of us are bad shamans cuz we don't have +1500 like you, then grats, you win.

Window

01-13-2010, 09:25 PM

<cite>ArcaneMundi wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Window wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm a Defiler and 90% of the time I'm raiding with a Fury that has his mythical buff on me. This gives a huge amount of +heals, enough to cap the effects of +heals on my wards. My critical single target wards are much much higher than what the OT shaman can produce. If that OT shaman habitually over wrote my single target ward, the raids healing capacity would go down. There is no way to time single target wards.I suggest learning to throw your single target heals on the tank so that the mt shaman can focus on more effective warding. Keep the MT in green if you have the time and are not worrying about the OT. That is the best way IMO.</blockquote>Most of the decent Shamans are at cap, or close to cap on the single target ward, so the Fury mythical has no bearing on this argument.</blockquote>Throw in CH, which the MT shaman has over an OT one (especially in WoE).

Gahnand

01-13-2010, 09:26 PM

You are once again assuming that you aren't wiping out someone else's ward.. so hmm... 800 or 0? Possibly even -2000 if you wiped a gravitas/ankefexen ward.

Arcanemundi

01-13-2010, 09:28 PM

<cite>Gahnand@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>You are once again assuming that you aren't wiping out someone else's ward.. so hmm... 800 or 0? Possibly even -2000 if you wiped a gravitas/ankefexen ward.</blockquote>The MT Shaman has the same chance to wipe my ward out too. Everyone should have the same chance to have Gravitas on them if the Dirge is doing their job correctly.

Arcanemundi

01-13-2010, 09:29 PM

<cite>Window wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ArcaneMundi wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Window wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm a Defiler and 90% of the time I'm raiding with a Fury that has his mythical buff on me. This gives a huge amount of +heals, enough to cap the effects of +heals on my wards. My critical single target wards are much much higher than what the OT shaman can produce. If that OT shaman habitually over wrote my single target ward, the raids healing capacity would go down. There is no way to time single target wards.I suggest learning to throw your single target heals on the tank so that the mt shaman can focus on more effective warding. Keep the MT in green if you have the time and are not worrying about the OT. That is the best way IMO.</blockquote>Most of the decent Shamans are at cap, or close to cap on the single target ward, so the Fury mythical has no bearing on this argument.</blockquote>Throw in CH, which the MT shaman has over an OT one (especially in WoE).</blockquote>Coercive Healing should be on the OT and MT Shamans.

Arcanemundi

01-13-2010, 09:31 PM

Coercive Healing doesn't affect base amounts of wards either I believe. It's like the the Fury Mythical effect, cap still applies.

SonnyA

01-13-2010, 09:32 PM

<cite>Gahnand@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>SonnyA wrote:</cite><blockquote>I disagree.. If the MT is spiking, two shammies warding will be more effective than just one. Yes, one might overwrite the other, but one might also put one up when there's none on the tank. So unless you overwrite a mighty 7k ST ward with a feeble 2k ward you're not doing any harm to the MT. As long as you shammies keep a ST ward on your MT, the templar will get him back to full health.</blockquote>Don't follow this advice. It's terrible.</blockquote>Explain why it's terrible or your argument has no value.I'm saying that unless the OT shammy has inferior wards, there's no harm done. Whether or not that "cast" could have been spent on something more useful, like a debuff, a rez, or ward on a squishy, is a call the OT shaman will have to make. The good ones will know what to do.But if the tank is spiking, the MT shammy's warding is obviously not adequate. Thus more warding is beneficial, not harmful. In WoE, a good MT defiler can probably keep his tank well warded alone, but on some of x4 raids a single MT shammy can't keep up by himself. So do everyone a favor and assist with ST wards on the MT..

Gahnand

01-13-2010, 09:33 PM

<cite>ArcaneMundi wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gahnand@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>You are once again assuming that you aren't wiping out someone else's ward.. so hmm... 800 or 0? Possibly even -2000 if you wiped a gravitas/ankefexen ward.</blockquote>The MT Shaman has the same chance to wipe my ward out too. Everyone should have the same chance to have Gravitas on them if the Dirge is doing their job correctly.</blockquote>This just adds to my point. Somebody's ward gets wiped when you could have added HP. Just stop already. It's clear nobody is going to change your mind, so let's /thread this thing already before it becomes completely unusable to anyone.

SonnyA

01-13-2010, 09:38 PM

<cite>Gahnand@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ArcaneMundi wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gahnand@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>You are once again assuming that you aren't wiping out someone else's ward.. so hmm... 800 or 0? Possibly even -2000 if you wiped a gravitas/ankefexen ward.</blockquote>The MT Shaman has the same chance to wipe my ward out too. Everyone should have the same chance to have Gravitas on them if the Dirge is doing their job correctly.</blockquote>This just adds to my point. Somebody's ward gets wiped when you could have added HP. Just stop already. It's clear nobody is going to change your mind, so let's /thread this thing already before it becomes completely unusable to anyone.</blockquote>The added hp effect is useless in that context. If your tank isn't spiking, who cares whether he has +400 hp or not.Besides, you can cast your ST ward and both direct heals in the same reuse cycle. So why no ward too!?

Arcanemundi

01-13-2010, 09:39 PM

<cite>Gahnand@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ArcaneMundi wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gahnand@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>You are once again assuming that you aren't wiping out someone else's ward.. so hmm... 800 or 0? Possibly even -2000 if you wiped a gravitas/ankefexen ward.</blockquote>The MT Shaman has the same chance to wipe my ward out too. Everyone should have the same chance to have Gravitas on them if the Dirge is doing their job correctly.</blockquote>This just adds to my point. Somebody's ward gets wiped when you could have added HP. Just stop already. It's clear nobody is going to change your mind, so let's /thread this thing already before it becomes completely unusable to anyone.</blockquote>What is stopping me from casting my single target ward and then my single target heals? Why not have both?Lol, yeah what he said haha. Man this feels like an IM.

Gahnand

01-13-2010, 09:40 PM

<cite>SonnyA wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gahnand@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>SonnyA wrote:</cite><blockquote>I disagree.. If the MT is spiking, two shammies warding will be more effective than just one. Yes, one might overwrite the other, but one might also put one up when there's none on the tank. So unless you overwrite a mighty 7k ST ward with a feeble 2k ward you're not doing any harm to the MT. As long as you shammies keep a ST ward on your MT, the templar will get him back to full health.</blockquote>Don't follow this advice. It's terrible.</blockquote>Explain why it's terrible or your argument has no value.I'm saying that unless the OT shammy has inferior wards, there's no harm done. Whether or not that "cast" could have been spent on something more useful, like a debuff, a rez, or ward on a squishy, is a call the OT shaman will have to make. The good ones will know what to do.But if the tank is spiking, the MT shammy's warding is obviously not adequate. Thus more warding is beneficial, not harmful. In WoE, a good MT defiler can probably keep his tank well warded alone, but on some of x4 raids a single MT shammy can't keep up by himself. So do everyone a favor and assist with ST wards on the MT..</blockquote>This whole thread is my explanation. The short is that your chances of making things worse is much higher than making things better, so have faith in your fellow healers and work with them instead of against them.

Arcanemundi

01-13-2010, 09:41 PM

<cite>Gahnand@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>SonnyA wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gahnand@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>SonnyA wrote:</cite><blockquote>I disagree.. If the MT is spiking, two shammies warding will be more effective than just one. Yes, one might overwrite the other, but one might also put one up when there's none on the tank. So unless you overwrite a mighty 7k ST ward with a feeble 2k ward you're not doing any harm to the MT. As long as you shammies keep a ST ward on your MT, the templar will get him back to full health.</blockquote>Don't follow this advice. It's terrible.</blockquote>Explain why it's terrible or your argument has no value.I'm saying that unless the OT shammy has inferior wards, there's no harm done. Whether or not that "cast" could have been spent on something more useful, like a debuff, a rez, or ward on a squishy, is a call the OT shaman will have to make. The good ones will know what to do.But if the tank is spiking, the MT shammy's warding is obviously not adequate. Thus more warding is beneficial, not harmful. In WoE, a good MT defiler can probably keep his tank well warded alone, but on some of x4 raids a single MT shammy can't keep up by himself. So do everyone a favor and assist with ST wards on the MT..</blockquote>This whole thread is my explanation. The short is that your chances of making things worse is much higher than making things better, so have faith in your fellow healers and work with them instead of against them.</blockquote>Not letting other healers cast all their heals on the MT is not working with them man.

Gahnand

01-13-2010, 09:42 PM

<cite>ArcaneMundi wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gahnand@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ArcaneMundi wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gahnand@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>You are once again assuming that you aren't wiping out someone else's ward.. so hmm... 800 or 0? Possibly even -2000 if you wiped a gravitas/ankefexen ward.</blockquote>The MT Shaman has the same chance to wipe my ward out too. Everyone should have the same chance to have Gravitas on them if the Dirge is doing their job correctly.</blockquote>This just adds to my point. Somebody's ward gets wiped when you could have added HP. Just stop already. It's clear nobody is going to change your mind, so let's /thread this thing already before it becomes completely unusable to anyone.</blockquote>What is stopping me from casting my single target ward and then my single target heals? Why not have both?Lol, yeah what he said haha. Man this feels like an IM.</blockquote>Ok, now you are just trolling. stop it.

Gahnand

01-13-2010, 09:58 PM

<cite>ArcaneMundi wrote:</cite><blockquote>Coercive Healing doesn't affect base amounts of wards either I believe. It's like the the Fury Mythical effect, cap still applies.</blockquote>I'm about 99% sure that the CH bonus is equivalent to the gravitas bonus, the ankefexen bonus, the ritual bonus, or the myth 30% of wis bonus. If I'm wrong, then that would be good to know.

Arcanemundi

01-13-2010, 10:10 PM

<cite>Gahnand@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ArcaneMundi wrote:</cite><blockquote>Coercive Healing doesn't affect base amounts of wards either I believe. It's like the the Fury Mythical effect, cap still applies.</blockquote>I'm about 99% sure that the CH bonus is equivalent to the gravitas bonus, the ankefexen bonus, the ritual bonus, or the myth 30% of wis bonus. If I'm wrong, then that would be good to know.</blockquote>The mythical bonus increases our base, so it raises the heal mod cap, the other effect do not I believe.

Skywarrior

01-13-2010, 10:22 PM

<cite>Gahnand@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ritual. You will get the most effectiveness out of that by using it before a big group heal (Transcendence). If your group gets smacked hard, hit Ritual and then the group heal. Some people macro ritual to their group heal so that everytime they cast a group heal it hits Ritual if it's up. I prefer to hit it myself with a mouse button shortcut, so I can save it for when I really need it.</blockquote>I'm trying to understand what you are saying here. RoA is a nice ability and can be a factor in some encounters but it sounds like you are implying that you are giving yourself Ritual before Transcendence in order to speed the reuse and casting of the group heal. RoA cannot be cast on yourself so it is entirely irrelevent to the healing scenario unless you are casting it on another healer, who has to also be in your group. Frankly, I got rid of RoA after our raid force got Druushk on farm status a long time ago. RoA never did me, the mystic, any good and most certainly isn't going to help the OP in his quest for better healing.As an aside, I also disagree with not over warding the MT. About the only time I would likely overwrite an existing ward is if it doesn't matter for the encounter. ST wards in a raid situation simply do not last long enough in a damage spike situation to worry about overwriting one for the few seconds it is active on the tank. If the ST ward is lasting more than a few seconds then overwriting it shouldn't matter to the outcome anyway as it just isn't all that intense an encounter. That said, I certainly do not apply an ST ward when I know the MT shaman has put one up and it should be good, such as during prewarding. That would just be stupid. But starting ten seconds or so into the fight then there is good and solid justification to start throwing ST wards on the tank as, in all likelihood, you will be out of sync with the MT shaman wards anyway.

Gahnand

01-13-2010, 10:39 PM

<cite>Skywarrior wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gahnand@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ritual. You will get the most effectiveness out of that by using it before a big group heal (Transcendence). If your group gets smacked hard, hit Ritual and then the group heal. Some people macro ritual to their group heal so that everytime they cast a group heal it hits Ritual if it's up. I prefer to hit it myself with a mouse button shortcut, so I can save it for when I really need it.</blockquote>I'm trying to understand what you are saying here. RoA is a nice ability and can be a factor in some encounters but it sounds like you are implying that you are giving yourself Ritual before Transcendence in order to speed the reuse and casting of the group heal. RoA cannot be cast on yourself so it is entirely irrelevent to the healing scenario unless you are casting it on another healer, who has to also be in your group. Frankly, I got rid of RoA after our raid force got Druushk on farm status a long time ago. RoA never did me, the mystic, any good and most certainly isn't going to help the OP in his quest for better healing.As an aside, I also disagree with not over warding the MT. About the only time I would likely overwrite an existing ward is if it doesn't matter for the encounter. ST wards in a raid situation simply do not last long enough in a damage spike situation to worry about overwriting one for the few seconds it is active on the tank. If the ST ward is lasting more than a few seconds then overwriting it shouldn't matter to the outcome anyway as it just isn't all that intense an encounter. That said, I certainly do not apply an ST ward when I know the MT shaman has put one up and it should be good, such as during prewarding. That would just be stupid. But starting ten seconds or so into the fight then there is good and solid justification to start throwing ST wards on the tank as, in all likelihood, you will be out of sync with the MT shaman wards anyway.</blockquote>I'm talking about Ritual not Ritual of Alacrity. You hit it, and the next heal has an x% bonus depending on how many AAs you dumped in. Pound for pound, you will get more hps if you apply this to transcendence over any other heal we have.Also grats on getting Druushk on farm status. I don't blame you for dumping RoA since it doesn't help you as opposed to helping other members in your group. Obviously 33% casting, recovery, and reuse on a fellow raider for 30 seconds would not be beneficial. Keep stacking wards on the MT, and any other nuggets of advice?

Skywarrior

01-14-2010, 01:13 AM

nope. I just didn't understand your post because I just forgot about the Ritual you are talking about, mostly because it was macro'd and out of sight, heh. My bad. You can go back to your argument now. Sorry about my confusion. Yes Ritual is good. RoA is good also but I just don't find it as useful overall as some other things. I still disagree about the over warding though. Shrug.Thanks for clearing it up.

SonnyA

01-18-2010, 10:31 AM

<cite>Gahnand@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>SonnyA wrote:</cite>This whole thread is my explanation. The short is that your chances of making things worse is much higher than making things better, so have faith in your fellow healers and work with them instead of against them.</blockquote>Explain how you make things worse by refreshing a ST ward on a tank if the tank is spiking. The MT shammy will refresh his ward as soon as it's up anyway. Nothing is lost, but a lot can be gained.To the original poster, try it out and let us know how it goes. If you follow my advice, you should be able to see a noticable difference.

Gahnand

01-18-2010, 04:09 PM

if you wipe out a larger ward with a smaller ward you have made it worse. this is in the thread. are you even reading it or are you just expecting me to re-explain my points just for you?

SonnyA

01-19-2010, 07:25 AM

<cite>Gahnand@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>if you wipe out a larger ward with a smaller ward you have made it worse. this is in the thread. are you even reading it or are you just expecting me to re-explain my points just for you?</blockquote>I think you're the one not reading the thread. And please drop the aggressive tone and stay constructive. You're bad enough on eq2flames. Don't be like that here.For some reason you assume that the OT shammy has inferior wards. You also assume that when the MTs ward is getting overwritten, it's always at its max amount.In reality you'll often put up a ward when there is none, or you'll overwrite a ward that has been beaten on already.

Sedenten

01-19-2010, 01:50 PM

If ever you run into a raid leader that gives you a hard time about the heal parse, then that raid leader is fairly clueless and assumes heals work like damage. Just because you have a low heals per second says little to nothing about your healing ability. As a defiler, I expect to be topping the parse by a considerable amount due to the role I'm given and the way my spells work. The harder the content, the higher my parse generally is but on easier events or where my group simply isn't taking a lot of damage my parse is going to look pathetic. It's not uncommon for me to go through an easy zone and not top 1000 HPS, yet be top of the heal parse. It's not because I'm clueless about how to heal, but because there's not that much damage to heal. If your group is dying left and right or you are the main tank shaman and your tank is dying constantly, then I would assume 500 HPS is way low. Your group ward alone should account for more on a parse if the group is getting hammered by effects. If your raid leader is still harping about heals, ask people in your group to toss on chokers or stop jousting AE's. If no one in your group has chokers, inspect people in your raid until you find out who is wearing one and toss single target wards on them. You can even go lax on the cures and just ward through the detrimentals instead of curing them! There's plenty of ways to pad a heal parse, but none of them equate to being a better healer.If you do get ACT and start using it, pay more attention to where your healing is coming from and less on the quantity of healing. If people are dying, use ACT to figure out what's killing them and if there's something you could be doing to help prevent it. A lot of times that is as simple as being more timely on a cure or single target warding certain weaker group members before an AE might be incoming. Also, learn when AE's will hit (either using ACT or by simply watching for NPC animations) and react appropriately if there's a spike in damage. I usually save the Ritual line to add some oomph to my group heal following a big AE. Keep in mind my goal is never to top the heal parse, but to keep my group alive and contribute what I can to help keep the raid alive.That being said, you should keep wards up as a priority, on your group and any tanks you are responsible for. If you're not in the tank group and there's a second shaman there, coordinate with them. I don't particularly care and actually tell our offtank shaman to ward the MT if there's not much offtanking going on. We have no fury to buff me and both myself and the other shaman have coercive healing and close to the same gear. So it's not going to be a detriment if she overwrites me, and has been quite effective for us when the damage is rolling in on the tank hard and heavy. More than likely if the damage is enough to worry about they will overwrite a partial or nearly used up ward. If the damage is low enough on the tank that my ward is just sitting there not getting used, then overwriting it with a fresh one isn't going to matter so much to me either and isn't going to have a detrimental effect on my healing since I typically keep refreshing my single target ward anyway. Keep in mind that is not in all cases--do work with your other healers and get a feel for how they operate.

Gahnand

01-19-2010, 02:24 PM

<cite>SonnyA wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think you're the one not reading the thread. And please drop the aggressive tone and stay constructive. You're bad enough on eq2flames. Don't be like that here.For some reason you assume that the OT shammy has inferior wards. You also assume that when the MTs ward is getting overwritten, it's always at its max amount.In reality you'll often put up a ward when there is none, or you'll overwrite a ward that has been beaten on already.</blockquote>I never disagreed with the idea that it can be beneficial, which is also something I said previously (see quote below). My point is, that it can also be bad (please don't make me explain this point again). My recommendation is to cast single target heals and torpor since those will NEVER have a bad effect.<cite>Gahnand@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm not going to say that what you are saying is impossible or will never yield a benefit; I'm just trying to point out that based on probability and best possible outcome, you should stick to single target heals.</blockquote>If I seem aggressive, it's because I'm impatient with having to reiterate the same points. There are a million different ways to dissect this conversation, and I think we already covered about 99.9% of those. IMO, this thread is over. The questions you are asking have already been asked.

Arcanemundi

01-19-2010, 04:12 PM

<cite>Gahnand@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>IMO, this thread is over.</blockquote>This argument has been going on ever since I started playing three years ago, and I'm sure long before that, so I doubt this thread, or the argument will ever be over. Wards take damage before the tank takes direct damage, so they are on the front lines, just like reactives are. They are almost never at full strength. A single target ward can absorb a lot of damage, and if the ward you cast from out of group replaces a severely damaged ward that the MT Shaman is in the process of recasting, then it can make a significant difference in a heavy fight. If a mob is hitting a tank intensely hard and frequently, and also casting AoEs that hit the tank's group, odds are the MT Shaman does not ever have fresh maxed wards on the MT, they have damaged wards. Maybe for a split second there is a maxed ward, but most the time they are damaged or gone. The only time the argument against overwarding would make any sense is before a pull when the MT Shaman precasts a single target ward on the tank, or during a light fight. After the fight begins, depending on the damage being dealt by the mob, it might be appropriate to over ward the MT Shaman's ward, then again, it might not be appropriate if the damage is mild. All we are saying is sometimes it is better to use all your single target heals on the MT, instead of only some of them.

Gahnand

01-19-2010, 04:29 PM

Banditman

01-22-2010, 10:59 AM

Regardless of what group I am in, if only the MT is taking heavy damage, I'm casting everything I have at him. There is no reason to concern yourself with the possibility of overwriting a larger ST Ward with a smaller one. Is it possible? Sure it is. It's equally possible you're going to overwrite his ST Ward that has only 1 HP remaining with your fresh one. In short, it's just a complete wash of risk versus reward. Ward away.Now, conversely, if the MT is not under extreme duress, I have other things I can do. If the MT Shaman can easily keep the MT Warded without me, I can do other things to contribute and I should do them. Keeping the mob fully debuffed can further lighten the healing load and allow the encounter to be more quickly and efficiently dispatched. Tossing in some damage further shortens a fight.I've said it many times before, and I'll repeat it here. The most important tool a Mystic has is the one between his ears. Know your raid, know the mobs, understand what needs to be done and do it.

Hene

02-03-2010, 10:12 PM

Just thought I'd chime in on this "don't overwrite wards" idea. I personally, HATE when someone overwrites my wards. It makes me disrupt my standard cycle of debuffing and temp buffing, and spot curing/healing/RoAing to refresh a ward that is not actually down.Disadvantages:1) Cost the MT shaman more power2) Mess with his casting order (debuffs, buffs, etc.)4) Reduce the warded amountAssuming both your shamans know how to play their class well, you usually you put the better equipped one in the MT group. They get CH, and probably have 100%+ heal crit. For me, in the MT group, my ST ward does at least 6k, up to 9 or 10k with totem and/or Gravitas; an external 3k ward is no better than hitting the tank for 7k.5) Make the MT shaman sad <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" />Advantaged:1) Assuming the MT shaman's wards are down, instead of healing the tank for 2000 or 3000, you ward him for maybe 1000 more. (Honestly if your tank is spiking within 5000, let alone 1000, you need to rework something, namely the tank's gear or the healing setup)Also<cite>Arcanemundi@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Depending on your gear cap should be around 1500 to 1700 on Ancient Aegis.</blockquote>No, this is wrong.My base ST ward is nearly 4500. This is solo, not counting the bonus wisdom from raid buffs. That means that if I have no external buffs on me, my cap is 2250. I'd say I have good gear, but there is no way I have 2250+heal.Don't discount group wards either, usually it makes up 17%+ of my total healing. And there is no way you can convince me that you are capped on +heals for your group ward without a fury myth clickie on you.

Arcanemundi

02-17-2010, 03:49 PM

<cite>Hene wrote:</cite><blockquote>Arcanemundi@Antonia Bayle wrote:<blockquote>Depending on your gear cap should be around 1500 to 1700 on Ancient Aegis.</blockquote>No, this is wrong.My base ST ward is nearly 4500. This is solo, not counting the bonus wisdom from raid buffs. That means that if I have no external buffs on me, my cap is 2250. I'd say I have good gear, but there is no way I have 2250+heal.Don't discount group wards either, usually it makes up 17%+ of my total healing. And there is no way you can convince me that you are capped on +heals for your group ward without a fury myth clickie on you.</blockquote>Sorry, I think you missed it. The heal amount cap is 50% of whatever your base ward amount is. This is calculated after AA and gear effects are applied. Remember, the Mystic mythical weapon also increases the base amount of the ward by 30% of your wisdom stat. The raid set gear in TSO gives 26% to base, +10% to base from stance, +10% from other AA options. Lets say your wisdom was in the high end like 1200, the math would be: ((2100*1.46) + (1200 * 0.30)) / 2= (3066 + 360)/2= 3426 /2 = 1713 heal mod cap. I am not sure what your heal mod is, but I'm guessing it's around 1100 if your single target ward is 4500. The way you get up to around 4500 mathematically is by using the above formula, but removing the "/2" division step and adding in the 1100 heal mod. ((2100*1.46) + 1100 + (1200 * 0.30))=3066 + 1100 + 360= 4526.