Instances where does the bruiser fit in

[ModPlod]

<p>On my Server Splitpaw the regular call goes out for instance group looking for either  Tank, Healer or DPS  (Server seems overrun with Regen and bards).</p><p>No one seems to want my bruiser.  Now hes a 3rd  alt so he wont get fable gear and prob not going to get his myth before new expansion out.  Ca are all adapt 3.  People dont want  him as a tank  as all they can see it Plate it has to be.</p><p>People dont want him as dps again the blinkerd wizzy / assasin we must have.</p><p>So besides farming and getting shinys in awkward places is there really any reason to take a non uber geared fully pipmped bruiser anywhere ?  If not cant really understand what SOE are trying to do with and slot in the class</p>

[Pnaxx]

<p>There is no reason unless you use him fer farming shineys and such. Bruisers must be fully geared and Mastered to be of much use. Mine has epic , t-2 with same fabled, fully Mastered and great jewlrey and still is a crappy tank in most instances. I hardly play him anymore...now just my young kids play him. They run him around Kylong and kill chit. That's about it.</p>

[circusgirl]

<p>A bruiser in T2 shard gear should be capable of tanking any TSO instance zone.  Some, particularly guk3, would still be a pretty big challenge that would require you and the group to seriously know your stuff, but aside from that nothing should be out of reach.  I would strongly suggest making friends with a solid healer, preferably a shaman, and then starting your own groups together.</p>

[Dechau]

<p>I am on Splitpaw also, and I can say that being an instance tank is not something I find hard..</p><p>All you need to do is to start your own groups for some time, make sure people get to know that Bruisers can actually tank stuff, and that they know the name of your Bruiser..</p><p>When I first started I had alot of comments about Bruisers not being able to tank, but I had even more frompeople who finally realised that we actually can also..</p><p>So make it a habbit that you start your own grps, find a Dirge and preffered a Chanter to go with it, and you can tank any TSO instance in full T2 <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Gl with it</p>

[Aule]

<p><cite>Dechau wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I am on Splitpaw also, and I can say that being an instance tank is not something I find hard..</p><p>All you need to do is to start your own groups for some time, make sure people get to know that Bruisers can actually tank stuff, and that they know the name of your Bruiser..</p><p>When I first started I had alot of comments about Bruisers not being able to tank, but I had even more frompeople who finally realised that we actually can also..</p><p>So make it a habbit that you start your own grps, find a Dirge and preffered a Chanter to go with it, and you can tank any TSO instance in full T2 <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Gl with it</p></blockquote><p>What he said pretty matches my experience with my bruiser.</p><p>I had a boatload of shards stacked up because there wasn't anything good for coercers besides shoulders and boots, so when my bruiser hit 80 I got a set and a half of T2 gear and a good amount of the jewelry too.  Got fabled epic and that effigy offhander from the bloodwood(sp) plank recipe and started tanking.</p><p>Earlier in your tanking career you may need 2 healers, if so then try to make one of them a warden.  If you have a dirge too then you can be over 520 weapon skills while in defensive stance.  (Or just get one really uber warden)  That'll up your survival a lot.</p>

[Lethe5683]

<p><cite>ModPlod wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>On my Server Splitpaw the regular call goes out for instance group looking for either  Tank, Healer or DPS  (Server seems overrun with Regen and bards).</p><p>No one seems to want my bruiser.  Now hes a 3rd  alt so he wont get fable gear and prob not going to get his myth before new expansion out.  Ca are all adapt 3.  People dont want  him as a tank  as all they can see it Plate it has to be.</p><p>People dont want him as dps again the blinkerd wizzy / assasin we must have.</p><p>So besides farming and getting shinys in awkward places is there really any reason to take a non uber geared fully pipmped bruiser anywhere ?  If not cant really understand what SOE are trying to do with and slot in the class</p></blockquote><p>My non-myth-mostly-legendary bruiser can do a better job tanking than most mythed and fabled plate tanks on my server.  People underestimate brawlers tanking ability (not saying that they aren't still underpowered in that area).  I have never seen any non fully raid geared bruiser tank any instance well besides myself but I think that is mostly because most do not even try.</p>

[Aule]

I'll say one thing though, every brawler I've seen who actively pushes to tank zones, does an awesome job. They move quickly and efficiently through the zone, face the mob well, have good situational awareness to catch roamers and adds, etc. Not that it has anything at all to do with the class, I think it's just the caliber of player who's drawn towards tanking with the "can't-tank-fighter" class.

[Dechau]

<p>I dont see why Bruiser would prefer a Warden as solo healer ?</p><p>I myself prefer a Templar as solo healer or a Defiler as my second choice..</p><p>Anyways, on Splitpaw server, with a mix of T2 Defensive and offensive gear, legendary jewels and Mythical weapon I have tanked all instanced but Palace, that one I did after getting a few pieces of T4..</p><p>So if the question comes to if you can do it, then ofc you can, its just a matter of you taking the time to make your own groups, cause the /Norrathtrade Bruiser tank lfg Guk lower wont do you anything for sure <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Lethe5683]

<p><cite>Dechau wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I dont see why Bruiser would prefer a Warden as solo healer ?</p></blockquote><p>Their instinct buff makes it as easy to keep hate in defensive as it normally would be in offensive.  The amount of damage less that you will take in defensive far exceeds whatever higher heal amount a cleric could do (assuming they even do heal any better, of which I'm extreamly doubtfull).  I still prefer shamans in general though they are by far the best healer for a brawler tank.  Shaman + warden = invincible in any zone.</p>

[Antryg Mistrose]

<p><cite>Lethe5683 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Dechau wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I dont see why Bruiser would prefer a Warden as solo healer ?</p></blockquote><p>Their instinct buff makes it as easy to keep hate in defensive as it normally would be in offensive.  The amount of damage less that you will take in defensive far exceeds whatever higher heal amount a cleric could do (assuming they even do heal any better, of which I'm extreamly doubtfull).  I still prefer shamans in general though they are by far the best healer for a brawler tank.  Shaman + warden = invincible in any zone.</p></blockquote><p>Templars have a smaller skills bonus, but also tricks like a 5k single target ward, and last I checked the largest HP buffage in the game.  I've solo healed a monk in most difficult zones without any issues.  Inquisitors would have to work a lot harder.  Warden?  why would any brawler want that as a solo priest?  With 2 - /shrug no competence or particular types needed</p>

[Ambrin]

<p>I generally prefer clerics and shaman. Shamans because we can stay at full health for the duration of the zone (whatever we don't avoid they absorb) and clerics because what ever we don't avoid they instantly put back with a reactive. The only time this setup changes would be for Palace of Ferzhul where a Warden is much better suited to solo the fire room.</p>

[Lethe5683]

<p><cite>Antryg Mistrose wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Lethe5683 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Dechau wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I dont see why Bruiser would prefer a Warden as solo healer ?</p></blockquote><p>Their instinct buff makes it as easy to keep hate in defensive as it normally would be in offensive.  The amount of damage less that you will take in defensive far exceeds whatever higher heal amount a cleric could do (assuming they even do heal any better, of which I'm extreamly doubtfull).  I still prefer shamans in general though they are by far the best healer for a brawler tank.  Shaman + warden = invincible in any zone.</p></blockquote><p>Templars have a smaller skills bonus, but also tricks like a 5k single target ward, and last I checked the largest HP buffage in the game.  I've solo healed a monk in most difficult zones without any issues.  Inquisitors would have to work a lot harder.  Warden?  why would any brawler want that as a solo priest?  With 2 - /shrug no competence or particular types needed</p></blockquote><p>The templar buff is only a very small fraction of the usefullness of instinct.  I've had a warden solo heal me in all TSO zones including PoF, templars from my experiance are rather poor healers for brawlers.</p>

[Dechau]

<p>Teh difference is, with a warden yuou can keep aggro better in Defensive stance, this I can agree to..</p><p>But, if you have a templar you dont need to be in defensive stance, and you can hold aggro just fine anyways..</p><p>For me the preferred order is:</p><p>Templar > Defiler > Mystic > Inquisitor > Warden/Fury</p><p>For solo healing..  Any zone, anytime <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Lord Hackenslash]

<p>As a healer i have no problems with brawler tanks in all but maybe 1 or 2 instances. the main thing is if most brawlers that join groups try to tank in DPS gear. they have no avoidance/mitigation adorns and are wearing the Druid DPS shard armor.</p><p>Those brawlers who wear tanking gear rarely have any issues in a decent group and I have no trouble solo healing them on my Templar, Inquisitor or Mystic.</p>

[Lethe5683]

<p><cite>Dechau wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Teh difference is, with a warden yuou can keep aggro better in Defensive stance, this I can agree to..</p><p>But, if you have a templar you dont need to be in defensive stance, and you can hold aggro just fine anyways..</p><p>For me the preferred order is:</p><p>Templar > Defiler > Mystic > Inquisitor > Warden/Fury</p><p>For solo healing..  Any zone, anytime <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Defensive stance with a warden healers = MUCH more survivability than offensive with a termplar healer.  Really it's not even comparable.</p>

[Dechau]

<p>Still there is no need to use defensive stance with a Warden healer if you can tank it in middle or even offensive with a Templar..</p><p>I know its not the same, but if you can use middle/offensive, you get more dps = Zone done faster..</p>

[circusgirl]

<p>It is true that defensive stance + warden is more survivability than offensive + templer, but frankly, balanced stance with a shaman gives you better than both.  Shamans are fantastic, you just sit at 100% the whole time, it's wonderful.</p>

[Aull]

<p>I agree that more dps = get done faster, but there should be times where having survival should mean being able to finish as well.</p><p>I don't like spending hours and hours working a zone, but I don't like blowing through like there is no challenge either.</p>

[Lethe5683]

<p><cite>Dechau wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Still there is no need to use defensive stance with a Warden healer if you can tank it in middle or even offensive with a Templar..</p><p>I know its not the same, but if you can use middle/offensive, you get more dps = Zone done faster..</p></blockquote><p>Offensive stance gives very little DPS benefit, it's just a proc.  With instinct even in defensive you will have pretty much capped weaponskills so being in offensive with a templar would be much worse survivability and marginally better DPS.</p>

[Mosha D'Khan]

<p><cite>Lethe5683 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Dechau wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Still there is no need to use defensive stance with a Warden healer if you can tank it in middle or even offensive with a Templar..</p><p>I know its not the same, but if you can use middle/offensive, you get more dps = Zone done faster..</p></blockquote><p>Offensive stance gives very little DPS benefit, it's just a proc.  With instinct even in defensive you will have pretty much capped weaponskills so being in offensive with a templar would be much worse survivability and marginally better DPS.</p></blockquote><p>dont see how you are getting that info. in my def stance my crushing is about 406/406 solo. in my off stance it is a 496/496. so the hit rate alone will increase my dps way more than in def stance. higher hit rate means more procs going off. and i have done this on a training dummy to test it too. only have a 4.5k on dummy in def stance and a 8k in off stance. now this was like 3 or 4 months ago so it has changed but still.</p>

[Lethe5683]

<p><cite>Mosha DKhan wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><span ><p><cite>Lethe5683 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Dechau wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Still there is no need to use defensive stance with a Warden healer if you can tank it in middle or even offensive with a Templar..</p><p>I know its not the same, but if you can use middle/offensive, you get more dps = Zone done faster..</p></blockquote><p>Offensive stance gives very little DPS benefit, it's just a proc. <span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong> With instinct</strong></span> even in defensive you will have pretty much capped weaponskills so being in offensive with a templar would be much worse survivability and marginally better DPS.</p></blockquote><p>dont see how you are getting that info. in my def stance my crushing is about 406/406 solo. in my off stance it is a 496/496. so the hit rate alone will increase my dps way more than in def stance. higher hit rate means more procs going off. and i have done this on a training dummy to test it too. only have a 4.5k on dummy in def stance and a 8k in off stance. now this was like 3 or 4 months ago so it has changed but still.</p></span></blockquote><p>See the bold red above.  Instinct is a buff to weapon skills by a very large amount.  With it, even in defensive you will probably have around 500 c/s/p which is enough vs most mobs that switching to offensive will not improve your hit rate all that much.</p>

[Mosha D'Khan]

<p><cite>Lethe5683 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Mosha DKhan wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><span><p><cite>Lethe5683 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Dechau wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Still there is no need to use defensive stance with a Warden healer if you can tank it in middle or even offensive with a Templar..</p><p>I know its not the same, but if you can use middle/offensive, you get more dps = Zone done faster..</p></blockquote><p>Offensive stance gives very little DPS benefit, it's just a proc. <span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong> With instinct</strong></span> even in defensive you will have pretty much capped weaponskills so being in offensive with a templar would be much worse survivability and marginally better DPS.</p></blockquote><p>dont see how you are getting that info. in my def stance my crushing is about 406/406 solo. in my off stance it is a 496/496. so the hit rate alone will increase my dps way more than in def stance. higher hit rate means more procs going off. and i have done this on a training dummy to test it too. only have a 4.5k on dummy in def stance and a 8k in off stance. now this was like 3 or 4 months ago so it has changed but still.</p></span></blockquote><p>See the bold red above.  Instinct is a buff to weapon skills by a very large amount.  With it, even in defensive you will probably have around 500 c/s/p which is enough vs most mobs that switching to offensive will not improve your hit rate all that much.</p></blockquote><p>then let my ask you this. why switch to Def stance anyways. you lose the damage proc off your offensive stance for aviodance that does not mean anything these days and a little mit increase, so why do it at all anways?</p>

[Lethe5683]

<p><cite>Mosha DKhan wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><span>then let my ask you this. why switch to Def stance anyways. you lose the damage proc off your offensive stance for aviodance that does not mean anything these days and a little mit increase, so why do it at all anways?</span></blockquote><p>...</p><p>Let me ask you this... have you even played this game in the last year?  It sure doesn't seem that way...  Saying the avoidance/mit from defensive stance is meaningless... that's like saying there's no point in plate tanks using shields or wearing plate armor over chain.</p>

[Quicksilver74]

<p>All Brawlers need to use defensive stance when tanking anything hard.    We are low on the Mitigation curve, so the mit we get makes a significant difference.   Also, the unconteste avoidance granted by our defensive stance is a MUST. </p><p>  The only time bruisers will tank in Offensive is if they are tanking something easy, IE a trash mob, or a group zone when they have an amazing healer, or multiple healers.   In other words, Tank in defensive when it's gonna be tough... if it's gonna be easy then go offensive.  </p>

[Mosha D'Khan]

<p><cite>Lethe5683 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Mosha DKhan wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><span>then let my ask you this. why switch to Def stance anyways. you lose the damage proc off your offensive stance for aviodance that does not mean anything these days and a little mit increase, so why do it at all anways?</span></blockquote><p>...</p><p>Let me ask you this... have you even played this game in the last year?  It sure doesn't seem that way...  Saying the avoidance/mit from defensive stance is meaningless... that's like saying there's no point in plate tanks using shields or wearing plate armor over chain.</p></blockquote><p>was about to ask you the same thing. the 4% to mit increase is meaning less. 4% of a 4k hit is what 160 damage. wow that is alot and will save me when that next 4k hit comes back around in about 2 secs. on and when i hit a 90 avoidace with def stance on how is it i get hit so often then. with a 90 aviodance only 1 in every 10 attacks should land or have things change in number values over the last few days that i have dont heard about yet.</p>

[BChizzle]

<p>Mosha Mosha Mosha <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Mosha D'Khan]

<p>bchizzle take you own advice you gave me and go troll in your own forums. aka the monk forums</p>

[Lethe5683]

<p><cite>Mosha DKhan wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><span >was about to ask you the same thing. the 4% to mit increase is meaning less. 4% of a 4k hit is what 160 damage. wow that is alot and will save me when that next 4k hit comes back around in about 2 secs. on and when i hit a 90 avoidace with def stance on how is it i get hit so often then. with a 90 aviodance only 1 in every 10 attacks should land or have things change in number values over the last few days that i have dont heard about yet.</span></blockquote><p>You understand nothing.  Not a single thing you said is true other than 4% of 4,000 being 160... grats on being able to use a calculator.</p>

[BChizzle]

<p><cite>Mosha DKhan wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><span >bchizzle take you own advice you gave me and go troll in your own forums. aka the monk forums</span></blockquote><p>Clearly you arent a brady bunch fan.</p>