When Luclin is buried in Norrath [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

Liched

12-21-2009, 02:21 AM

Journal of AataltaalFinal Entry—It is with heavy heart on this long night that I write what I know to be my last entry here. I havedeliberated on this issue, and always I come to the same conclusion. These are a brave people in Landing— noble, able, determined. Yet as long as I stay, they shall defer to me out of respect for what I have donein these early years. I would simply pass on the rulership to another, but any whom I favor shall be treatedwith the same thoughtless deference, and these people must have a ruler they have chosen from amongthemselves. For this to happen, I must be gone entirely, beyond any hope of their finding me.Of course, in a matter of hours the question may be moot. An army of the Deathfist unlike any I haveseen marches toward our walls, and at this moment a band of accursed Teir’Dal assassins positions itselfbeneath our feet. I am confident, with the warning I have received from these strange scientists of thearcane, that I have plotted a course through these troubles. But my sense that the city and its people shallendure is no guarantee that I myself shall live through this night. The paladins of Marr have sworn tolay down their lives to protect mine, but a stray blade or spell of death may always find me. Still, I mustbe the bait, and only a complete victory over the Teir’Dal allows my remaining forces to reinforce the wallsand defeat the Deathfist.After that, the city is safe. Difficult years may lie ahead, but these people deserve a chance to plot theirown destinies. I cannot in good conscience bring the entire city along on the dread road I must travel. LadyDelailith shall return to Landing should it require help, but my heart tells me that she will never need todo so. A finer people I have not known on Norrath, and I love them enough to set them free of my shadow.Tonight, even if he sees the end of it, Aataltaal dies to the mortal world. At least until such a time asevents may require me to reveal myself again.By Mine Own Hand,Aataltaal----------An addendum:The deed is done, the Teir’Dal smashed, the Deathfist lay in ruins. I take this journal, along with all else that has been entrustedinto my care, to depart from this free port back to my homeland a continent away. After living unfettered on this rough land, Ican never again accept the policies and obligations of Felwithe. But for the same reasons Aataltaal must go, so too must I. Alreadythey turn to me, asking his fate — and why not ask a sage to find such knowledge? Even if I can hold their questions off until theyrelent and remit, I foresee they will choose me to fill his place. I am too clearly associated with him, and his memory cannot fadeuntil mine has.Already I have removed my name from the battle-lists, burned all correspondence, and sworn my agents never to speak myname again. In one human generation, I will be a myth. In ten, I will be forgotten.I mourn to never see the Academy built, to never again know the smell of the market and feel the warm, relentless sun on myface. But I shall find a new place in the unexplored wilds of Faydwer and there spend my last days. When my last breath givesforth, I shall be buried there, in whatever new home I have made. My agents can bring me word of Landing’s progress, and,as my master wishes, I shall return should it ever have need, Rod in hand, to aid it. Yet I have had a Moment of Truth, andhave perceived that there shall be no such trouble until I am long gone, when Luclin shall be buried in Norrath.But enough. This truly shall be the last entry into this journal, which I must take away as I remove myself.By Mine Own Hand,Delailith<div><img src="http://bolly.freshinc.co.uk/symbol.PNG" width="800" height="1224" /></div>

Cusashorn

12-21-2009, 02:28 AM

Whats all this now?

Liched

12-21-2009, 05:27 AM

When the moon joins the planet, that's what the chelsith stone is showing (see my highlighted red circle) + events not so long ago in Timorous Deep with the big chunks of her <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Greyquill

12-21-2009, 06:31 AM

Huge esoteric leap in logic based on a one line rather off-handed remark in my opinion. For all we know "When Luclin shall be buried in Norrath" is an oath similiar to saying "When pigs fly" not a prophecy as such. But this does bring up an interesting character, Aataltaal.Aataltaal has lore in both EQ1 and EQ2 and is the central figure in the "Ocean of Tears" Everquest novel. I'm guessing this journal entry is related to the item bearing the same name in EQ1, no? He's also mentioned briefly as being a previous owner of Tarton's Wheel in EQ2. The novel gives him an even more colorful background... immortal, serving as Emporer of the Combine, seeing Grieg put the original Spire network into construction, the coastal city of Weille's transformation into Freeport, the brewing unrest between the Katta and the Seru, all in the quest for vengence against Innoruuk whom he holds responsible for the destruction of Takish Hiz and its people. Considering the current state of the Thexian Dynasty in New Tunaria... I wouldn't be too surprised to see this "Arthur" figure reveal himself to take stewardship of the city and it's people.

Mary the Prophetess

12-21-2009, 07:38 AM

To me that image on the Stone has always been the most provacative and the most interesting. And I believe it will ultimately prove to be the most important.So much discussion has revolved around the identity of the central symbol, [First supposed to be Veeshan, then Mayong, and currently Theer], but far less discussion concerning this 'intruding' symbol.Aataltaal is associated with the founding of Landing long before it grew into Freeport. His time period is in the time of the Combine to be sure. However, if memory serves he was not in fact Koada 'Dal, but an Elder Elf; the first born of Tunare, making his life span near immortal. So he could, (and probably did), pre-date the Combine. Indeed, he may yet live.Lady Delailith is long dead now, but not perhaps Aataltaal. I take her journal entry as prophetic rather than figurative.If so, his close association with Landing, (now Freeport), and its fate--coupled with the disappearance of Lucan, does allow for the possibility that Aataltaal may be re-inserted into that city's destiny again.All wild speculation to be sure, (especially since the entry originates from a source which is not considered to be canon), but not outside the realm of possibility.

Liched

12-21-2009, 10:36 AM

<cite>Greyquill wrote:</cite><blockquote>Huge esoteric leap in logic based on a one line rather off-handed remark in my opinion. For all we know "When Luclin shall be buried in Norrath" is an oath similiar to saying "When pigs fly" not a prophecy as such. But this does bring up an interesting character, Aataltaal.Aataltaal has lore in both EQ1 and EQ2 and is the central figure in the "Ocean of Tears" Everquest novel. I'm guessing this journal entry is related to the item bearing the same name in EQ1, no? He's also mentioned briefly as being a previous owner of Tarton's Wheel in EQ2. The novel gives him an even more colorful background... immortal, serving as Emporer of the Combine, seeing Grieg put the original Spire network into construction, the coastal city of Weille's transformation into Freeport, the brewing unrest between the Katta and the Seru, all in the quest for vengence against Innoruuk whom he holds responsible for the destruction of Takish Hiz and its people. Considering the current state of the Thexian Dynasty in New Tunaria... I wouldn't be too surprised to see this "Arthur" figure reveal himself to take stewardship of the city and it's people.</blockquote>Not necessarily, consider this:Humour me a moment and assume that the circle thats joining norrath is what Delailith is talking about. That would make 4 circles in the planet when it completes right? 4 moons. 3 that have merged earlier, 1 in progress.Now that leaves us with Drinal left, 5 moons in total.If you look at the lore that has come out with EQ2 regarding the Source of Amyg and the Valkyrie you get even more insights into what the planet was like a long time ago. Scan over the Lizardmen lore and you will read about Norrath having 5 moons around it, giving me what I would assume would be Drinal to be the final moon to enter the planet. Now drinal is a different type of diety, one that the kerra worshiped. He wasn't a god of power or influence like the normal gods but a different type all together, a spirit god and was known as the Silver Harbinger. Drinal being the last moon, a god of death (but not evil, more renewal) would bring Norrath into this so callled 'end of ages'.The lizardmen even talk about another norrath somewhere else that has 0 moons, which I'm not sure may or may not be a future Norrath or a Norrath long before. It certainly need some discussion, just to try some different alley ways on the chelsith stone.Here are some snippits that might help spark some new thoughts and ideas. These are just my own thoughts from looking into this from as many sources on all of the EQ franchise. But definately read over the lizardmen lore on the Tae Ew, Evol Ew and the valkyrie and amyg in EQ2 for this particularly discussion as well as any other soe published books you might have that could help.The Spirit DeitiesSeveral powerful divine spirits are worshiped similarly to dei-ties by Norrath's more primitive. They are different than thedeities of Power, Influence, and Nature as they do not exist to ruleor be ruled by a plane of existence nor are they tied to mortalbeliefs. They are divine creatures imbued in the physical andspiritual world of Norrath itself. Shamans and beast-lords, espe-cially agnostic ones, draw their power from and form bonds withthe spirits of animals and nature. These spirit deities are the mostpowerful examples of such spirits. Drinal, The Silver Reaper Very few beings know of The Silver Reaper, associated with the gray moon seen from Norrath on all nights - Drinal. This moon was named after the spirit deity of night, destruction, and death by a humanoid tribe of nomads before the era of great cities and civilizations. Drinal, although representing that which is dark, is a neutral deity who represents the necessary end of the cycle of life. He does not maintain his watch over death out of malevo- lence, but out of the necessity for it to occur in order to fulfill the cycle of life. His Lujien followers personify Drinal as an upright white wolf whose paws, tail, and maw are midnight black. It is said that Drinal wields a silver sickle, the symbol of the crescent moon that is most sacred to Drinal and his bestial worshipers. -----------Ehayae, Matron OFthebaton Very few beings know of Ehayae and even fewer pay homage to her in reverence and worship. To those that do know this name and follow her guidance, she is the deity that maintains the cycle of birth, rebirth, and creation and is strongly tied to Drinal, who completes this cycle. The dawn and twilight are symbols associ- ated with this goddess and are hours that her worshipers revere as sacred. Ehayae, although representing that which is considered to be good by many of the races of Norrath, is indeed a neutral goddess. Her neutrality comes in that she does not maintain her half of the cycle of life out ofbenevolence, but out of the necessity. Her Gihjna followers personify Ehayae as a golden-skinned hu- manoid female bearing the face and head of an ivory-beaked hawk and golden wings in place of arms. She is often depicted as holding a half-circle at the tips of her wings in representation of the rising and setting sun. --------------Sahteb MahLni,The FeralSpirit Sahteb Mahlni is the most powerful of the known animal spirits and is believed to be the embodiment and source of animal instincts. Followers of Sahteb Mahlni are exclusively Vah Shir who believe true wisdom and power come from understanding and controlling the primal inner spirit within all living creatures. The opposites of life and death, predator and prey, and physical and spiritual are the primal balances of existence and must be maintained. All life began as a spiritual existence, and upondeath all things return to a spiritual state until reborn into new flesh. Only through praise, reverence, and devotion to Sahteb Mahlni -the greatest of the ancestor spirits and the balance of life and death - can enlightenment be achieved. Vah Shir of all dispo- sitions, from the peaceful, contemplative shaman to the fierce, bloodthirsty beast-lord hear the calling of Sahteb Mahlni. As an embodiment of primal balance, Sahteb Mahlni is neutral. When the Feral Spirit is described in physical form, it is as an ever- changing composite creature made from all Norrath's animals. --------------------

Cusashorn

12-21-2009, 12:56 PM

I'd like to know where you got this lore from your opening post please. You kinda just pull this up without expressing your intentions of the post. I'm quite confused here.

Aneova

12-21-2009, 04:14 PM

Indeed sources are always a plus as I enjoy the hunt for information <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Coniaric

12-21-2009, 04:20 PM

I got agree with Cusa here. I'm rather unsure where this is coming from. Is it extracted from the lore of EQ2? Or EQ? Or somewhere floating out there?

Greyquill

12-21-2009, 04:47 PM

I'm pretty sure this lore is from a smattering of different places (eq1, eq2, novelizations, and pen and paper). I'm not 100% on where the original post (the journal entry) is from out of all of that. There is an item in EQ1 called The Journal of Aataltaal that's required for the Oracle of K'arnon quest. It drops from Estrella of Gloomwater in Kedge Keep. It's interesting to note that the quest dialogue mentions it being near his tomb in the Hills of Shade. The oracle herself doubts this is completely true. True as in, he's not dead, or it's not in it. I don't know having never personally done this quest line. It's most likely this journal entry and addendum are from either the pen and paper game (Forests of Faydark) or from the novel "Ocean of Tears". It would be nice Liched if you could provide us the source material for the entries and quotations your citing, so we can discuss its plausability in actually refrencing the Chelsith Stone Prophecy.

Mary the Prophetess

12-21-2009, 05:57 PM

Cusa, you're not going to like this:The journal entry is from the EQ table-top roleplay game module, Forests of Faydark, and is not canon.Aataltaal does have a few references that are canon (I am trying to find their source from official lore), but the journal entry quoted by the OP is not.

Mirander_1

12-21-2009, 06:06 PM

<cite>Mary the Prophetess wrote:</cite><blockquote>Cusa, you're not going to like this:The journal entry is from the EQ table-top roleplay game module, Forests of Faydark, and is not canon.Aataltaal does have a few references that are canon (I am trying to find their source from official lore), but the journal entry quoted by the OP is not.</blockquote>He's mentioned as the previous owner of Tarton's Wheel in EQ2, in the journal for that quest. I believe that's about the extent of it in EQ2.He's also the protagonist in the "Ocean of Tears" novel. It's never been officially stated as canon, but I'm personally inclined to take the broad stroke of the plot as accurate.

PsiaMeese

12-21-2009, 06:23 PM

While others would prefer EQ2 source material be the only topics of discussion here, I still find related discussions enjoyable. What I like about the History and Lore forum is that we are free to speculate. With a light moderation. Regardless of source material.Simply because it's fun.

Greyquill

12-21-2009, 09:03 PM

I'm also inclined to take the story in "Ocean of Tears" as pretty much a history. It's contextual information missing in-game that adds a good deal of background to some really important places, peoples, and historical events. Especially now given the states of Freeport and Felwithe. Here we have a character that was instrumental in the settling and building of what would eventually become the sole domain of Lucan. In the PnP game refrence he even says he'll return in the city's time of greatest need. A leaderless Freeport is bad for everyone. Here also is someone once well placed within the elddar society that founded Felwithe. He's clearly taken issue with some of thier edicts and policies in the past... but they are his people, the decendants of the survivors of Takish Hiz and the great migration to the Faydark, the reason he continues to search for a way to extract a terrible vengance on Innoruuk (this may be why he was in possession of Tarton's Wheel in the first place). Felwithe/ New Tunaria is without a monarch. Were he to return, I find it extremely likely that he could easily find himself steering the High Elves back to the glories he remembers. It's fun to speculate anyway. As an aside and in remembrence of the original topic, was the gift of prophesy something unique to Elizerain or is it a condition common to the original Elddar. I seem to remember she was special even among the first born race of Tunare. I bring this up because as far as I know it's the first time anyone is made aware of the Shissar calendar. And it was subsequently kept very secret. How would someone like Aataltaal, who probably wasn't a seer in the same sense as Elizerain, and would have had no knowledge of the Chelsith Stone's calendar have made such an eerily accurate prediction as is given in his journal entry.

Mirander_1

12-21-2009, 09:20 PM

<cite>Mary the Prophetess wrote:</cite><blockquote>Aataltaal is associated with the founding of Landing long before it grew into Freeport. His time period is in the time of the Combine to be sure. However, if memory serves he was not in fact Koada 'Dal, but an Elder Elf; the first born of Tunare, making his life span near immortal. So he could, (and probably did), pre-date the Combine. Indeed, he may yet live.</blockquote>If I recall the novel correctly, Aataltaal was indeed an Eldar Elf, but with a heavy emphasis on the 'was'. He was born an Eldar, but when Inny kidnapped the elven king and queen, Aataltaal was part of the rescue party sent into the Plane of Hate after them. That rescue party was in turn caught, and became some of the first Dark Elves (after the Thexes, of course). Aataltaal was, for whatever reason, not corrupted in spirit, only in form, and spent the millennia after that trying to redeem his kinsmen, and take revenge on Innoruuk.

Liched

12-22-2009, 08:36 AM

<cite>Greyquill wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm also inclined to take the story in "Ocean of Tears" as pretty much a history. It's contextual information missing in-game that adds a good deal of background to some really important places, peoples, and historical events. Especially now given the states of Freeport and Felwithe. Here we have a character that was instrumental in the settling and building of what would eventually become the sole domain of Lucan. In the PnP game refrence he even says he'll return in the city's time of greatest need. A leaderless Freeport is bad for everyone. Here also is someone once well placed within the elddar society that founded Felwithe. He's clearly taken issue with some of thier edicts and policies in the past... but they are his people, the decendants of the survivors of Takish Hiz and the great migration to the Faydark, the reason he continues to search for a way to extract a terrible vengance on Innoruuk (this may be why he was in possession of Tarton's Wheel in the first place). Felwithe/ New Tunaria is without a monarch. Were he to return, I find it extremely likely that he could easily find himself steering the High Elves back to the glories he remembers. It's fun to speculate anyway. As an aside and in remembrence of the original topic, was the gift of prophesy something unique to Elizerain or is it a condition common to the original Elddar. I seem to remember she was special even among the first born race of Tunare. I bring this up because as far as I know it's the first time anyone is made aware of the Shissar calendar. And it was subsequently kept very secret. How would someone like Aataltaal, who probably wasn't a seer in the same sense as Elizerain, and would have had no knowledge of the Chelsith Stone's calendar have made such an eerily accurate prediction as is given in his journal entry.</blockquote>This rings a bell, I believe he did see Shissar in a dream near a lake with an oracle but it has been so long since I got a chance to have a read of the book that it escapes me! If someone could post the chapter that would be absolutely amazing!

Mary the Prophetess

12-22-2009, 12:34 PM

Ourt of curiosity, when was the first time that the Chelsith Stone was first seen in either EQ Live or EQ2? The Ruins of Kunark expansion was released in March of 2000, but I am uncertain if the expansion actually revealed the Stone. Certainly the symbols used on the stone were in game from the release of Everquest Live in March of the previous year (1999), but what I am asking is when did the Stone itself make it's first appearance?This also brings up another question: If the central figure on the stone is indeed Theer, then he was represented in game from the time when the Stone first made it's appearance (LOOONG before the whole Shadow Oddesy story line). Indeed, the 'bat' figure, (now supposedly representing Theer), was in-game from the very first in March of 1999. It leads me to believe that the central figure may not be Theer,---or--- that the developers appropriated the figure, (originally supposed to be Innoruuk or Veeshan), and ret-conned it later to be representative of him.The EQ table-top RPG suppliment Forests of Faydark was released in 2004, and the Ocean of Tears Everquest novel was published in 2005. There was no hint that Luclin would ever be 'buried in Norrrath' in game until the release of EQ2 in November of 2004.What I am getting at is this: Did the Table-top RPG make this reference to Luclin being 'buried in Norrath', *before* the release of EQ2? It seems to me that it did, but I would like to be certain. I do know that SOE did both sanction and contribute to it's development. Look also at Elizerain's Prophecy, (also published first in the same Forests of Faydark module, and only years later repeated in-game). It explicitly foretells the destruction of Luclin , again *before* the release of EQ2:"An age shall come unto the lands,Of heartbreak, bloodshed, and quickening sands.The earth loosed by divine embrace,Crumbles and tumbles, while oceans give chase.When magic seems lost, and distance grows great,All the children of Norrath shall share the same fate.An army of old shall rise up once more,To blacken the land with the cold touch of war.The Maiden of Shadows alone in the night,Shunned by the gods of both darkness and light.She trembles then bursts, at the touch of their hand,Raining down fire and scorching the landLet this vision of mine though shared by none,Save the poisened fruit of Vesshan's womb,Be kept close at hand and near to heart,So that all is not lost when the world falls apart.It would appear that the table top RPG, rather than borrowing lore from EQ Live or EQ2, the opposite may be true! Certainly it should be considered semi-official lore, given the amount of lore from that game which has found itself into the official category in-game.

Mirander_1

12-22-2009, 01:51 PM

<cite>Mary the Prophetess wrote:</cite><blockquote>This also brings up another question: If the central figure on the stone is indeed Theer, then he was represented in game from the time when the Stone made first made it's appearance (LOOONG before the whole Shadow Oddesy story line). Indeed, the 'bat' figure, (now supposedly representing Theer), was in-game from the very first in March of 1999. It leads me to believe that the central figure may not be Theer,---or--- that the developers appropriated the figure, (originally supposed to be Innoruuk or Veeshan), and ret-conned it later to be representative of him.</blockquote>True, that was along time ago. But remember, Vhalen was the lore dev for EQlive, and the Void story in EQ2 was his baby. It is possible that this story was one that he's wanted to put out since the very beginning, and so made sure the game launched with hints toward it. I don't know if that's definitely the case, but it's certainly possible.

Liched

12-22-2009, 02:20 PM

<cite>Mary the Prophetess wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ourt of curiosity, when was the first time that the Chelsith Stone was first seen in either EQ Live or EQ2? The Ruins of Kunark expansion was released in March of 2000, but I am uncertain if the expansion actually revealed the Stone. Certainly the symbols used on the stone were in game from the release of Everquest Live in March of the previous year (1999), but what I am asking is when did the Stone itself make it's first appearance?This also brings up another question: If the central figure on the stone is indeed Theer, then he was represented in game from the time when the Stone first made it's appearance (LOOONG before the whole Shadow Oddesy story line). Indeed, the 'bat' figure, (now supposedly representing Theer), was in-game from the very first in March of 1999. It leads me to believe that the central figure may not be Theer,---or--- that the developers appropriated the figure, (originally supposed to be Innoruuk or Veeshan), and ret-conned it later to be representative of him.The EQ table-top RPG suppliment Forests of Faydark was released in 2004, and the Ocean of Tears Everquest novel was published in 2005. There was no hint that Luclin would ever be 'buried in Norrrath' in game until the release of EQ2 in November of 2004.What I am getting at is this: Did the Table-top RPG make this reference to Luclin being 'buried in Norrath', *before* the release of EQ2? It seems to me that it did, but I would like to be certain. I do know that SOE did both sanction and contribute to it's development. Look also at Elizerain's Prophecy, (also published first in the same Forests of Faydark module, and only years later repeated in-game). It explicitly foretells the destruction of Luclin , again *before* the release of EQ2:"An age shall come unto the lands,Of heartbreak, bloodshed, and quickening sands.The earth loosed by divine embrace,Crumbles and tumbles, while oceans give chase.When magic seems lost, and distance grows great,All the children of Norrath shall share the same fate.An army of old shall rise up once more,To blacken the land with the cold touch of war.The Maiden of Shadows alone in the night,Shunned by the gods of both darkness and light.She trembles then bursts, at the touch of their hand,Raining down fire and scorching the landLet this vision of mine though shared by none,Save the poisened fruit of Vesshan's womb,Be kept close at hand and near to heart,So that all is not lost when the world falls apart.It would appear that the table top RPG, rather than borrowing lore from EQ Live or EQ2, the opposite may be true! Certainly it should be considered semi-official lore, given the amount of lore from that game which has found itself into the official category in-game.</blockquote>I happened to have a copy of the CD version of EQ1 from Kunark and after some replacing of current zone files with the old ones I could see that the chelsith stone were definately in Rathe Mountains, The Hole, Qeynos, Neriak and the casters guild in Akanon. I don't have a copy of the original EQ though so I'm not sure if they were added in Kunark or just in from the beginning, not sure if someone else has that can check but I would be interested to know!

Liched

12-22-2009, 02:28 PM

<img src="http://everquest.allakhazam.com/pgfx/item_777.png" width="40" height="40" /> <a class="itemhover" href="http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=24694">Journal of Aataltaal</a> is listed as being added during Lost Dungeons of Norrath in the Phylactery Will Get You Nowhere quest, which I believe was added into the game to commission the release of EQRPGLost Dungeons of Norrath was released September 9, 2003 and EQ2 was shipped on 8th of November 2004. This would make sense to me as far as planning in advance for the storyline for both games

Cusashorn

12-22-2009, 06:07 PM

<cite>Liched@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote><img src="http://everquest.allakhazam.com/pgfx/item_777.png" width="40" height="40" /> <a class="itemhover" href="http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=24694">Journal of Aataltaal</a> is listed as being added during Lost Dungeons of Norrath in the Phylactery Will Get You Nowhere quest, which I believe was added into the game to commission the release of EQRPGLost Dungeons of Norrath was released September 9, 2003 and EQ2 was shipped on 8th of November 2004. This would make sense to me as far as planning in advance for the storyline for both games</blockquote>Lost Dungeons of Norrath takes place after the Planes of Power time split that EQ2 takes place in though, but Aataltaal is still loosely connected in the lore of both games. However, the pen and paper games are generally disregarded from the video games. Since the computer games came first, pretty much everything mentioned outside of them have to be taken with a grain of salt until they confirm otherwise.

Mary the Prophetess

12-22-2009, 06:48 PM

But that's just the point I was trying to make. A sizable amount of lore that is now canon was introduced by the PnP game *BEFORE* the video games included it. And some of that lore, such as the destruction of Luclin, is hardly trivial little details included as a mere nod by the EQ2 development team to the other games.Granted, EQ2 was probably in development for years prior to it's actual release, and that the basic plot lines certainly originated with the EQ2 development staff rather than with the authors of the RPG game. But the fact that table-top game authors were privvy to that information as it was being developed, and the fact that they actually published significant indications of what was to come before the game itself was released to the public, gives some credence to the idea that the lore in the PnP game was also known to the EQ2 development team and approved by them, else there would have been no collaboration in the first instance, and the PnP game would have been taken, (as we players were), by suprise at the events which occured during the 500 years between EQ Live and EQ2.

Greyquill

12-22-2009, 07:25 PM

<cite>Mary the Prophetess wrote:</cite><blockquote>But that's just the point I was trying to make. A sizable amount of lore that is now canon was introduced by the PnP game *BEFORE* the video games included it. And some of that lore, such as the destruction of Luclin, is hardly trivial little details included as a mere nod by the EQ2 development team to the other games.Granted, EQ2 was probably in development for years prior to it's actual release, and that the basic plot lines certainly originated with the EQ2 development staff rather than with the authors of the RPG game. But the fact that table-top game authors were privvy to that information as it was being developed, and the fact that they actually published significant indications of what was to come before the game itself was released to the public, gives some credence to the idea that the lore in the PnP game was also known to the EQ2 development team and approved by them, else there would have been no collaboration in the first instance, and the PnP game would have been taken, (as we players were), by suprise at the events which occured during the 500 years between EQ Live and EQ2.</blockquote>I'm gonna have to second this. Very nice post Mary.

Liched

12-22-2009, 07:39 PM

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Liched@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote><img src="http://everquest.allakhazam.com/pgfx/item_777.png" width="40" height="40" /> <a class="itemhover" href="http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=24694">Journal of Aataltaal</a> is listed as being added during Lost Dungeons of Norrath in the Phylactery Will Get You Nowhere quest, which I believe was added into the game to commission the release of EQRPGLost Dungeons of Norrath was released September 9, 2003 and EQ2 was shipped on 8th of November 2004. This would make sense to me as far as planning in advance for the storyline for both games</blockquote>Lost Dungeons of Norrath takes place after the Planes of Power time split that EQ2 takes place in though, but Aataltaal is still loosely connected in the lore of both games. However, the pen and paper games are generally disregarded from the video games. Since the computer games came first, pretty much everything mentioned outside of them have to be taken with a grain of salt until they confirm otherwise.</blockquote>You don't need to say this again mate you've said it in other threads and I hear it in the EQ1 forums that's why i said at the beginning this thread was about EQ1, EQ2 and EQRPG. Now people are going to be left thinking about this rather than the subject we were on which is a derail in my eyes <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Liched

12-22-2009, 07:54 PM

Just a thought here but the symbols in the circles we are talking about are located on the druid rings in Mara too, right? Which is an extremely small island. Since this is such a compact area in the world it might help to look at all the races that have visited there other than the monks. There's nothing that I can remember in EQ1 or the RPG regarding mara, but EQ2 might have something in the dynasty lore to enlighten us on these few circles/possible moons. I have a strong feeling they will be prexus tunare and brell already in the planet but it would be nice to get a confirmation on this as well as the Eye/Shadow that's entering norrath on the Chelsith Stone as being Luclin.

Liched

12-22-2009, 07:55 PM

*addition* Unless of course her symbol is on the toppled stone, then we'll never know - but it could give us a clue to who built them and we could go from there.

Pahya

12-22-2009, 08:33 PM

I'm going to have to dig my copy of Ocean of Tears off of my shelves and re-read it with an eye toward connecting any hints to current storyline.

Liched

12-22-2009, 09:13 PM

Will you post the entry regarding the visions he has at the lake I really want to reread that!

Meirril

12-23-2009, 07:09 AM

<cite>Mary the Prophetess wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ourt of curiosity, when was the first time that the Chelsith Stone was first seen in either EQ Live or EQ2? The Ruins of Kunark expansion was released in March of 2000, but I am uncertain if the expansion actually revealed the Stone. Certainly the symbols used on the stone were in game from the release of Everquest Live in March of the previous year (1999), but what I am asking is when did the Stone itself make it's first appearance?</blockquote>The Chelsith Stone was first used as a plot device when The Shadows of Luclin expansion was released to explain how the Shissar were able to predict the comming of the greenmist and escape Kunark via teleporation of one of their minor cities. I'm not aware of any images of the Chelsith Stone in EQ1, certainly the players were never pointed at an image and told "this is the Chelsith Stone".The symbols we see in the Chelsith Stone in EQ2 have been around since early EQ1. I didn't start playing until Velious was out, but the symbols that are being used are mostly artistic variations on symbols that are commonly used all over the place in EQ1. One thing to remember is that EQ1 was as guilty as EQ2 when it comes to recycling zone art and a lot of these symbols were built into commonly placed objects.

Liched

12-23-2009, 10:24 AM

But the red circle itself (identified in EQ1 as art asset 'mcircle'<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> is only in very specific locations and more importantly in old world (odus, faydwer and tunaria/antonica) onlythe individual symbols were used to identify various gods, people or placestop right swirl was with the kane bayle/blood sabres under qeynosbottom right setting sun was with erudinbottom left was with the orcs in crushbonetop left was at with the vampires in mistmoore castledid anyone find anything more on the new symbols we have in the chelsith stone/druid rings? (particularly the shadow/eye being buried in norrath?)

Liched

12-23-2009, 10:44 AM

<div><div><div><h3>The Book of Sunder (A Farewell Gift From Vhalen)</h3></div><div>You say, "Hail, The Book of Sunder"The Book of Sunder says to you, "As has been stated, the magical manuscript security protocol requires that all information is withheld until the proper password is given."You say to the Book of Sunder, "Till Yonder"The Book of Sunder says to you, "Oh boy! You're a smart one, aren't you? Looks can be deceiving, eh? Now, I suppose you wish to hear about the Rune of Sunder. It's my specialty, you know? What do you wish of me?You say to the Book of Sunder, "Please tell me about the Rune of Sunder."The Book of Sunder says, "The Rune of Sunder is a representation of an event that is to take place in the Norrathian year of 5595 B.T. The event will see the destruction of the moon called Luclin that orbits the planet Norrath. This is a unique event foretold in the doomsday calender of the ancient race known as the shissar.In the Norrathian year, 3000 B.T., the shissar completed a calender comprised of runes and symbols extracted from the planar realms. These runes took order upon a massive stone calender that was carved into the shissar city of Chelsith.The shissar referred to the calender as a doomsday calender since it held the date of the death of the shissar race and destruction of Norrath. Among the many runes of this calendar was the rune of Sunder, the foreteller of the death of the moon.A great arcane plague extinguished the shissar race, as foretold. In the wake of this genocide the iksar rose in their place, destroying much of the records that told of the doomsday calender and the location of Chelsith.The Rune of Sunder would not be encountered by the Norrathians until the arrival of the prophetic elf ruler, Queen Elizerain in the Age of Blood. She dreamed of the great spiral and kept its secret hidden from all but those that shared her dreams. Everling research has uncovered a dragon to be one of these trusted Norrathians.In the Norrathian year of 5102 B.T., Queen Elizerain crosses the Gray Wastes into the afterlife. Her many prophecies are kept safe in hidden and unorthodox vaults. Among these was the prophecy of Luclin's destruction and the Rune of Sunder. it is believed her secrets are still kept close to the throne of the Koada'Dal.In the Norrathian year 5190 B.T., the House of Everling purchases an idol from Valdoartus Varsoon. This trinket proves to be cursed, but contains another rune upon it that is linked with the Rune of Sunder. The rune is designated the Rune of Ethernere. The idol is designated the Idol of Mor'Tael.In the Norrathian year, 5330 B.T., Lord Rikantus Everling is cursed by the idol of Mor'Tael. He is slowly divided and with each facet of himself, a bit more freedom is lost. He intensifies his studies of the Rune of Ethernere, believing it will show him a way to the Gray Wastes of Ethernere where he might rescue the souls of his departed daughters.Lord Rikantus Everling discovers that the Rune of Ethernere is not the passage to the Gray Wastes, but rather, a prophecy of another unique event of the shissar doomsday calender. Before he can complete his validation of this theory, he is consumed by the curse of the Idol of Mor'Tael. Before this is complete, he renamed the Rune of Ethernere to Rune of Oblivion.Research of the Rune of Sunder and the Rune of Oblivion lead towards the research of the doomsday calendar. With all Everlings subjugated, all studies have been postponed.There you are now! That is more than any academy big wig or ancient lich can tell you. Consider yourself informed... and being informed is half the battle!</div></div></div><div></div><div>More specifically they took the symbols from the planes when they invaded (successfully) with the rallosians.</div><div></div><div>I'm not sure if this would mean all of the symbols or a few of them. The niggly thing for me is getting the 3 central symbols and the two on the outside (the other 4 have more or less been associated)</div><div></div><div>I am yet to locate the exact names of the planes that the shissar successfully attacked</div>

Mary the Prophetess

12-23-2009, 11:10 AM

I did some digging and this is the (rough) timeline I was able to construct for the Chelsith Stone.Conceptually, the Chelsith Stone has been around since 2001. Its form and purpose was established by 2006, and it was revealed in-game to the players from 2006 through 2008. The discussion about the meaning of each symbol is on-going and has not been resolved. The symbols on the Chelsith Stone were around from the launch of EQ Live: [March 1999]The first mention of the Stone was from the EQ Live expansion Shadows of Luclin: [December 2001]The image of the Stone first appeared in *sometime* in EQ Live, though I do not believe it was dentified as the Stone of the Shissar:<img src="http://www.eq2confirmed.com/snark/chelsith.jpg" border="0" />It was first alluded to as the Stone of the Shissar from in EQ2 [Nektropos 3] [two of the symbols shown]: [August 2006] also the first hints at it's purpose.We learn it's real purpose is a calender counting down to Ages End in A Fate of Norrath: [January 2008]The story of the Chelsith Stone is discovered (*nods to Cusashorn*): [April 2008] which also was when the first images of the symbols were presented: <img src="http://www.fohguild.org/forums/attachments/mmorpg-general-discussion/25591d1144950295-everquest-2-return-gods-expansion.jpg" border="0" />

Liched

12-23-2009, 11:45 AM

I'm scanning like hell for this luclin reference but not having much luck as yet - i know there was alot more with the shissar lore during prophecy of ro and onwards but i we've veered off at pop so it's killing meespecially since there was even an instance you could play where you were the shissar during the greenmist!

Liched

12-23-2009, 11:48 AM

Can someone tell me where this is from? I'm thinking it's fan fiction but I would like to know if not since it says the crossbones are the doomsday of the shissar that is mentioned in vhalens lore--------a rogues tale<a href="http://www.lorelibrary.com/">http://www.lorelibrary.com/</a>Patrons~Many adventurers of varying realms find their way to the great halls of the Athenaeum. One such trodder on the lands of Norrath came to us with a tale of a grand adventure. Here are the words of Rezikai, a seeker of lore, and his quest for knowledge that took him to the lands of the dragons.~Keeper RaphaA Rogue's Taleas told by Rezikai on a recent visit to the AthenaeumMy tale begins in Neriak, in the shadows of the Maiden's Fancy. As I sat in observation of the babble around me, I began to hear whisperings of a great mystery found in the recently rediscovered lands of the iksar and their once ancient Shissar masters. There were grave words such as "doomsday" and "destruction" as well as "Age's End" being whispered amoung only the most skilled adventure seekers. Though they tried to keep their tales in secret, my keen hearing heard every word.I became greatly intrigued by the stories I heard and began frequenting other taverns and cities in hopes of gaining more knowledge about the lands of Kunark and the ancient secrets they held. From the taverns of Gorowyn I heard tales from adventuring Sarnak about a stone calendar of sorts found in one of their ancient cities of Chelsith.In the light-hearted pub of Kelethin, I heard the travelers tell of a chamber where this "Chelsith Stone" was kept by the Shissar. They told of a great circle that was surrounded by smaller circles a short ways out from the center. As someone would approach one of these smaller circles, a rune looking to possibly be of planar origin would begin to glow and fade away as the adventurer would move away.In the establishments of Qeynos I heard stories of a symbol similar to that of the one found in Chelsith yet with a twist that peakedmy interest. Two brave knights of Marr were telling about their decade long quest to find the planar swords of Soulfire and the Qeynos Claymore. Each man was given a replica of the swords for their dedication to the human city. However this was not the greatest part of their tale. These men had recently returned from a quest that took them deep into the Void to the Palace of the Ancient One, the Creator of Undeath Anashti Sul. In this palace the found two statues they had come across in previous journies. They were Maidens of Theer, and as each man approached one, they felt and heard a small humming vibration at their sides. Just as they figured out the strange sound was coming from each of their swords, an image appeared all around them. This image was not unlike the Chelsith Stone but was more complete. Though they couldn't explain why, the two men were convinced the symbols were coming out of the swords thmselves.All these tales were of great interest to me. They all seemed like pieces of a puzzle needed to be put together to solve an ancient riddle of great importance. The most interesting tale I heard came from a robust dwarf I met in the Seafarer's Roost on the east end of Freeport. As a lover of a good brew from any psrt of Norrath (and beyond for that matter), he had noticed me in some of the other establishments and picked up on my interest in the tales of ancient planar mystery. He called me over and said he knew of something that may help me on my quest. He told me about his latest adventure into the heart of the dragons. He told me of a great room the dragons call The Athenaeum of Scale. In this massive room were hanging great tablets of stone. There were sixteen of these tablets, or monoliths, arranged in a great circle and upon each one were twenty-eight symbols of unknown origin. On the floor was a circle containing sixteen more symbols, and each seemed to coorespond with one of the massive monoliths. As he was studying the symbols on the floor, the old dwarf heard a faint humming noise. He looked up and saw runes glowing on four of the monoliths. he remembered seeing these runes in other places that his adventuring had taken him. The first of these runes looked like two bones crossing each other to form an "X" which is known to be associated with the massacre of the Shissar by Greenmist. With three monoliths inbetween came the second of these glowing runed tablets. This was s piral rune he had also come across in the throne room in Old Felwithe and knew to be called the Rune of Sunder which was associated with the destruction of our grand moon Luclin. The last two symbols he had seen before but didn't know any more details then whee they could be found. The third rune was a crescent shape atop a triangle. Though he had seen this symbol and variences of it all over Odus, he didn't believe this to be the origin of the symbol. When describing the fourth and final glowing rune, the old dwarf had a slight far off look in his eye. The symbol was that of one found in many places that his beloved Rallos Zek was worshipped.I thanked the dwarf warrior for his information and began to take my leave. The dwarf grabbed my arm and held me with his gaze. He said the most important part of the story had not been shared yet. The stones had begun to invade his dreams at night. In them he is once again standing in the chamber at the center of the circled monoliths. Every time, just before he awakes in a frenzied sweat, he hears a deep voice call the name of "Theer." With the words, "Look to the Ring of Scale for the Monoliths of Theer," the dwarf dismissed me as he once again savered his ale.------------

Mary the Prophetess

12-23-2009, 12:05 PM

The Athenaeum does not deal in fan fiction. However, it is not unheard of for players of the game who are particularly active on the lore forums to be drafted by certain 'powers' to become heralds of prophesy and quest-bringers.Rapha had been quiet for a long time, and I had not been paying close enough attention there as perhaps I should have.Cronyn is the official lore Dwarf for SOE, and has given several interviews at EQ2 related sites, as well as posting the 'Ow, me aching head" posts on official forums.Interesting indeed.

Liched

12-23-2009, 12:42 PM

here is an entry from a book in EQ1:'199 A.G. Zebuxoruk the Demigod In past time did a great necromancer rise to greatness. Kotiz was he. He was once the apprentice of the Shissar. It is there that he learned the secrets of the dark circle. After the Green Death took the Shissar, Kotiz made their laboratories and libraries his own. There did he train many new apprentices. In the year 199 A.G. he finds a rip in time and journeys to the netherworlds. There he discovers the trapped soul of an ancient evil, the demigod, Zebuxoruk. Zebuxoruk was imprisoned for blasphemy and his essence now was trapped within a crystal. Kotiz was promised great knowledge in exchange for assisting the demigod in his freedom. Kotiz was told to return to his world and gather 100 necromancers and bring them one at a time to the crystal where Kotiz would sacrifice them using the crystal as the sacrificial dagger. Knowing only of his ownbrood, Kotiz brought them one after one to be sacrificed to the demigod. Upon the death of the last apprentice did the crystal shatter. A shard embedded itself in the shoulder of Kotiz. There was no demigod to be seen. The tiny plane began to fold in upon itself. Kotiz escaped using the last mana he had. He believed he was deceived by the demigod. He destroyed his own brood for naught. Suddenly the shard of crystal in Kotiz began to move under the skin. It rushed to his right arm. With great pain, arms began to sprout from his own arm. They grabbed Kotiz's shoulder and ripped his arm from his socket and began to form a demonic creature. Zebuxoruk was free! He lay a book in front of the dying necromancer and left in a flash of light. The book was The Unholy Writ of War. Each page was made from the skin of the sacrificed brood. Kotiz repaired himself and hid the book in a tesseract within his library. There it would remain. Eventually Kotiz could sustain his life no longer. He entered death 700 A.G.'

Liched

12-23-2009, 12:44 PM

*addition* what i a mean is: He was once the apprentice of the Shissar. It is there that he learned the secrets of the dark circle

Liched

12-23-2009, 12:52 PM

From chat with NPC in luclin:'Elder GlanoxxThe ones that keep us here … the ones who defy the gods, they must be destroyed. I cannot recall a time outside of this place, but I believe the stories. I trust that we are from somewhere else. These creatures claim to be gods. They claim to have created us from the filth of the mines. This cannot be. I have seen the face of our true god. He told me of their blasphemy. He came to me and handed me the knowledge of how to reach their Emperor. He taught me to resist the prying magic of the fanatics. Are you the crusaders of prophecy … the ones who walk in the mist?The prophecy will come to pass at last. Take my knowledge … the knowledge of our lord. I will not last much longer. The sickness will kill me like the others. There is one other who can help you. He claims to know some weakness of these creatures, seek him at the smelting furnaces near the mines. Now I must tell you the secret of the key.There is a pouch to be found. It was specially made and requires three separate components to function. Seek out the Idol of Zazuzh and the Ring of Zeruzsh. These items are kept by the Emperor’s most loyal Taskmasters. Place them with the Ssreashzian Insigna. This item will be much harder to acquire. I am sure you will be successful … our lord walks with you. Please be swift.An Iksar foreman also reveals the following:Shhh …. be quiet, the Taskmasters have sharp hearing. There is a green metal found in the mines that our masters despise. We must carefully separate it from the ore before working with the purified metal. Any tainted metal is quickly destroyed. Many a slave has lost their life for not properly purifying the metal. I’m convinced the secret to the master’s weakness lies in the tainted metal.Yes, though none of us would dare wield a sacred weapon of the masters perhaps you could. Forge one of their weapons and some of the green metal from the mines and you can taint the metal of the weapon. Their own corrupted weapons shall be the instrument of their downfall.Part of the issue of the green metal has long been known. The Iksar Crusaders of the Greenmist have long known the secrets of the creation of a Shissar bane weapon (which will also affect the Emperor) known simply as Greenmist. In deciphering the process to make such a weapon, you receive Notes from the Greenmist Tome from Librarian Zimor. His notes read in part:To finish the weapon, you will need the Lord of Pain’s Khukri, this tome, the hammer, the Greenmist blade, and a Greenmist shard or fragment. We have not found any Greenmist fragments.The Greenish Metal Shard (the Greenmist Fragment) was eventually recovered from the Alchemist’s Acolyte in the lower caves in Chardok. And appears similarly to be a piece of ore infused with the Green Mist sent out by Cazic-Thule.'

Liched

12-23-2009, 01:15 PM

<cite>Liched@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>here is an entry from a book in EQ1:'199 A.G. Zebuxoruk the Demigod In past time did a great necromancer rise to greatness. Kotiz was he. He was once the apprentice of the Shissar. It is there that he learned the secrets of the dark circle. After the Green Death took the Shissar, Kotiz made their laboratories and libraries his own. There did he train many new apprentices. In the year 199 A.G. he finds a rip in time and journeys to the netherworlds. There he discovers the trapped soul of an ancient evil, the demigod, Zebuxoruk. Zebuxoruk was imprisoned for blasphemy and his essence now was trapped within a crystal. Kotiz was promised great knowledge in exchange for assisting the demigod in his freedom. Kotiz was told to return to his world and gather 100 necromancers and bring them one at a time to the crystal where Kotiz would sacrifice them using the crystal as the sacrificial dagger. Knowing only of his ownbrood, Kotiz brought them one after one to be sacrificed to the demigod. Upon the death of the last apprentice did the crystal shatter. A shard embedded itself in the shoulder of Kotiz. There was no demigod to be seen. The tiny plane began to fold in upon itself. Kotiz escaped using the last mana he had. He believed he was deceived by the demigod. He destroyed his own brood for naught. Suddenly the shard of crystal in Kotiz began to move under the skin. It rushed to his right arm. With great pain, arms began to sprout from his own arm. They grabbed Kotiz's shoulder and ripped his arm from his socket and began to form a demonic creature. Zebuxoruk was free! He lay a book in front of the dying necromancer and left in a flash of light. The book was The Unholy Writ of War. Each page was made from the skin of the sacrificed brood. Kotiz repaired himself and hid the book in a tesseract within his library. There it would remain. Eventually Kotiz could sustain his life no longer. He entered death 700 A.G.'</blockquote>This might as well be ignored (i think) as the circles are mentioned as various forms of wizardry and the dark circle would no doubt be necromancyAs seen in this tome from EQ1:'The Blasphemer Dag of the Forbidden Circle Long ago in the time of Emperor Ganak, Scholar Dagdid walk with the greatMaster Atrebe. After the unfortunatedusting of Atrebe did Dagbegin his study of theforbidden circles, Wizardry,Enchantment and Magic. Verysoon after he took a likingto the ways of Wizardry. His studies he kept tohimself as he ignored theLaws of Kotiz. He became theBlasphemer of the Brood.Most of his studies wereheld in private, only hisSarnak slave named Kly wasallowed to assist in his blasphemous studies. Hissecret was soon to be revealed to all. Dag was commissioned by Kurn Machata to create a magical dagger for his personal use. It was to only be wielded by one ofhis ilk. Dag traveled to Kurn's outpost to beginhis work. His slave wentalong, pulling behind hima special forge which belonged to Haggle BaronDalnir. While Dag was away theBrood stumbled upon his journal and his secret obsession. The Brood sentword to Kurn to have Dag deconstructed. Dag was in the final stageof enchantments, Kurn lethim proceed and when the dagger was complete, Kurnshackled Dag and used the dagger upon the belly the Blasphemer. The dagger was found tobe very effective, but lacked a few more spellsand so it was to be returnedto the Brood. It never madeit back. The Crusaders sent, as well as the Sarnakslave who was pulling the Dalnir Forge, all vanishedwithout a trace. Only theDalnir Forge remained. Surely the gods cursed theblade made by the hands ofthe Blasphemer. To avoid the wrath of the gods, allof Dag's property and creations were burned as wasthe memory of his blasphemous studies.'

teddyboy4

12-23-2009, 01:15 PM

<cite>Liched@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>From chat with NPC in luclin:'Elder GlanoxxThe ones that keep us here … the ones who defy the gods, they must be destroyed. I cannot recall a time outside of this place, but I believe the stories. I trust that we are from somewhere else. These creatures claim to be gods. They claim to have created us from the filth of the mines. This cannot be. I have seen the face of our true god. He told me of their blasphemy. He came to me and handed me the knowledge of how to reach their Emperor. He taught me to resist the prying magic of the fanatics. Are you the crusaders of prophecy … the ones who walk in the mist?The prophecy will come to pass at last. Take my knowledge … the knowledge of our lord. I will not last much longer. The sickness will kill me like the others. There is one other who can help you. He claims to know some weakness of these creatures, seek him at the smelting furnaces near the mines. Now I must tell you the secret of the key.There is a pouch to be found. It was specially made and requires three separate components to function. Seek out the Idol of Zazuzh and the Ring of Zeruzsh. These items are kept by the Emperor’s most loyal Taskmasters. Place them with the Ssreashzian Insigna. This item will be much harder to acquire. I am sure you will be successful … our lord walks with you. Please be swift.An Iksar foreman also reveals the following:Shhh …. be quiet, the Taskmasters have sharp hearing. There is a green metal found in the mines that our masters despise. We must carefully separate it from the ore before working with the purified metal. Any tainted metal is quickly destroyed. Many a slave has lost their life for not properly purifying the metal. I’m convinced the secret to the master’s weakness lies in the tainted metal.Yes, though none of us would dare wield a sacred weapon of the masters perhaps you could. Forge one of their weapons and some of the green metal from the mines and you can taint the metal of the weapon. Their own corrupted weapons shall be the instrument of their downfall.Part of the issue of the green metal has long been known. The Iksar Crusaders of the Greenmist have long known the secrets of the creation of a Shissar bane weapon (which will also affect the Emperor) known simply as Greenmist. In deciphering the process to make such a weapon, you receive Notes from the Greenmist Tome from Librarian Zimor. His notes read in part:To finish the weapon, you will need the Lord of Pain’s Khukri, this tome, the hammer, the Greenmist blade, and a Greenmist shard or fragment. We have not found any Greenmist fragments.The Greenish Metal Shard (the Greenmist Fragment) was eventually recovered from the Alchemist’s Acolyte in the lower caves in Chardok. And appears similarly to be a piece of ore infused with the Green Mist sent out by Cazic-Thule.'</blockquote>I don't see what this story, or the one above it, have to do with the rest of this thread or the ongoing discussion on the topic of this thread.The first story is about Zeb, and how a Sarnak freed him from a crystal prison after the fall of the Shissar? Is this maybe an allusion that Zeb might have aided the Sshissar in some way? Maybe gave them forbidden knowledge of the planes and the gods? Otherwise I fail to see it's signifigance.And the story I quoted in this post seems to be nothing more then a piece of lore from the SoL xpac in EQ1 that gave hints about how to successfully navigate the Ssraeszra Temple on Luclin, and defeat it's inhabitants and the emperor. It doesn't really allude to the Chelsith stone, any of the runes, the Planes, the gods, Theer, The Void or anything else relevant to this discussion.These are interesting pieces of lore, no doubt, but please explain their relevance to this discussion.

Liched

12-23-2009, 01:38 PM

The problem is, that someone said the Shissar knew about their destruction because of the Chelsith Stone and that this was revealed to us in EQ1 in Shadows of Luclin, which I cannot find the lore evidence for as yet.But I did find a particular one from Luclin where Elder Glanoxx believes the player is to bring about the destruction of the shissar'Are you the crusaders of prophecy … the ones who walk in the mist?'As for the other two posts further below I was just searching more EQ1 lore'He was once the apprentice of the Shissar. It is there that he learned the secrets of the dark circle.'which i later retracted after finding evidence that this just represented the circles of magic'After the unfortunatedusting of Atrebe did Dag begin his study of theforbidden circles, Wizardry,Enchantment and Magic'I am still looking for a specific mention of a prophecy in shadows of luclin that gave the shissar the foresight to escape but I cannot find it anywhere other than the single line from Elder Glanoxx.

Liched

12-23-2009, 02:15 PM

i've combined the two to hopefully spark some ideas <img src="http://bolly.freshinc.co.uk/circles_text.png" width="1019" height="762" />

Liched

12-23-2009, 02:23 PM

Liched

12-23-2009, 02:25 PM

Liched

12-23-2009, 03:50 PM

The ones on the tablet remind me a very old symbol on the walls in splitpaw on EQ1 and on the art for Rodcet Nife, can't find them anywhere else in EQ1 though like <img src="http://bolly.freshinc.co.uk/paw.png" width="1024" height="768" /><img src="http://bolly.freshinc.co.uk/d_rodcet_nife.gif" width="160" height="178" />

Meirril

12-23-2009, 07:18 PM

<cite>Liched@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>Can someone tell me where this is from? I'm thinking it's fan fiction but I would like to know if not since it says the crossbones are the doomsday of the shissar that is mentioned in vhalens lore--------a rogues tale<a href="http://www.lorelibrary.com/">http://www.lorelibrary.com/</a>Patrons~Many adventurers of varying realms find their way to the great halls of the Athenaeum. One such trodder on the lands of Norrath came to us with a tale of a grand adventure. Here are the words of Rezikai, a seeker of lore, and his quest for knowledge that took him to the lands of the dragons.~Keeper RaphaA Rogue's Taleas told by Rezikai on a recent visit to the AthenaeumMy tale begins in Neriak, in the shadows of the Maiden's Fancy. As I sat in observation of the babble around me, I began to hear whisperings of a great mystery found in the recently rediscovered lands of the iksar and their once ancient Shissar masters. There were grave words such as "doomsday" and "destruction" as well as "Age's End" being whispered amoung only the most skilled adventure seekers. Though they tried to keep their tales in secret, my keen hearing heard every word.I became greatly intrigued by the stories I heard and began frequenting other taverns and cities in hopes of gaining more knowledge about the lands of Kunark and the ancient secrets they held. From the taverns of Gorowyn I heard tales from adventuring Sarnak about a stone calendar of sorts found in one of their ancient cities of Chelsith.In the light-hearted pub of Kelethin, I heard the travelers tell of a chamber where this "Chelsith Stone" was kept by the Shissar. They told of a great circle that was surrounded by smaller circles a short ways out from the center. As someone would approach one of these smaller circles, a rune looking to possibly be of planar origin would begin to glow and fade away as the adventurer would move away.In the establishments of Qeynos I heard stories of a symbol similar to that of the one found in Chelsith yet with a twist that peakedmy interest. Two brave knights of Marr were telling about their decade long quest to find the planar swords of Soulfire and the Qeynos Claymore. Each man was given a replica of the swords for their dedication to the human city. However this was not the greatest part of their tale. These men had recently returned from a quest that took them deep into the Void to the Palace of the Ancient One, the Creator of Undeath Anashti Sul. In this palace the found two statues they had come across in previous journies. They were Maidens of Theer, and as each man approached one, they felt and heard a small humming vibration at their sides. Just as they figured out the strange sound was coming from each of their swords, an image appeared all around them. This image was not unlike the Chelsith Stone but was more complete. Though they couldn't explain why, the two men were convinced the symbols were coming out of the swords thmselves.All these tales were of great interest to me. They all seemed like pieces of a puzzle needed to be put together to solve an ancient riddle of great importance. The most interesting tale I heard came from a robust dwarf I met in the Seafarer's Roost on the east end of Freeport. As a lover of a good brew from any psrt of Norrath (and beyond for that matter), he had noticed me in some of the other establishments and picked up on my interest in the tales of ancient planar mystery. He called me over and said he knew of something that may help me on my quest. He told me about his latest adventure into the heart of the dragons. He told me of a great room the dragons call The Athenaeum of Scale. In this massive room were hanging great tablets of stone. There were sixteen of these tablets, or monoliths, arranged in a great circle and upon each one were twenty-eight symbols of unknown origin. On the floor was a circle containing sixteen more symbols, and each seemed to coorespond with one of the massive monoliths. As he was studying the symbols on the floor, the old dwarf heard a faint humming noise. He looked up and saw runes glowing on four of the monoliths. he remembered seeing these runes in other places that his adventuring had taken him. The first of these runes looked like two bones crossing each other to form an "X" which is known to be associated with the massacre of the Shissar by Greenmist. With three monoliths inbetween came the second of these glowing runed tablets. This was s piral rune he had also come across in the throne room in Old Felwithe and knew to be called the Rune of Sunder which was associated with the destruction of our grand moon Luclin. The last two symbols he had seen before but didn't know any more details then whee they could be found. The third rune was a crescent shape atop a triangle. Though he had seen this symbol and variences of it all over Odus, he didn't believe this to be the origin of the symbol. When describing the fourth and final glowing rune, the old dwarf had a slight far off look in his eye. The symbol was that of one found in many places that his beloved Rallos Zek was worshipped.I thanked the dwarf warrior for his information and began to take my leave. The dwarf grabbed my arm and held me with his gaze. He said the most important part of the story had not been shared yet. The stones had begun to invade his dreams at night. In them he is once again standing in the chamber at the center of the circled monoliths. Every time, just before he awakes in a frenzied sweat, he hears a deep voice call the name of "Theer." With the words, "Look to the Ring of Scale for the Monoliths of Theer," the dwarf dismissed me as he once again savered his ale.------------</blockquote>This is a sum-up of EQ2 lore taken from the end of EoF to the end of TSO regarding the Chelsith Stone but including no information on the void or the ethernaughts. It sounds like its player written and offers no new information.

Liched

12-23-2009, 07:44 PM

well it states the the cross bones represent the end of the shissar so that in part is very useful if it's been provided by sonyhow many other articles on http://www.lorelibrary.com/ are fan fiction, i use that site alot but hope it was all to be either from a dev/in game/commissioned material

Meirril

12-23-2009, 07:47 PM

<cite>Liched@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>well it states the the cross bones represent the end of the shissar so that in part is very useful if it's been provided by sonyhow many other articles on http://www.lorelibrary.com/ are fan fiction, i use that site alot but hope it was all to be either from a dev/in game/commissioned material</blockquote>That's conjecture from here in the Lore forums. As far as I know there is no in-game source for that information or identifying any other symbol except for the spiral or the rune of oblivion (2 intersecting triangles forming an hourglass shape with a diamond shape in the middle).

Liched

12-23-2009, 09:01 PM

so people disagreed on what was said and they posted the article on the site anyway? that's misleading and it should be burned from the front page or at least tagged fanfiction! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Liched

12-23-2009, 10:16 PM

<cite>Greyquill wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm also inclined to take the story in "Ocean of Tears" as pretty much a history. It's contextual information missing in-game that adds a good deal of background to some really important places, peoples, and historical events. Especially now given the states of Freeport and Felwithe. Here we have a character that was instrumental in the settling and building of what would eventually become the sole domain of Lucan. In the PnP game refrence he even says he'll return in the city's time of greatest need. A leaderless Freeport is bad for everyone. Here also is someone once well placed within the elddar society that founded Felwithe. He's clearly taken issue with some of thier edicts and policies in the past... but they are his people, the decendants of the survivors of Takish Hiz and the great migration to the Faydark, the reason he continues to search for a way to extract a terrible vengance on Innoruuk (this may be why he was in possession of Tarton's Wheel in the first place). Felwithe/ New Tunaria is without a monarch. Were he to return, I find it extremely likely that he could easily find himself steering the High Elves back to the glories he remembers. It's fun to speculate anyway. As an aside and in remembrence of the original topic, was the gift of prophesy something unique to Elizerain or is it a condition common to the original Elddar. I seem to remember she was special even among the first born race of Tunare. I bring this up because as far as I know it's the first time anyone is made aware of the Shissar calendar. And it was subsequently kept very secret. How would someone like Aataltaal, who probably wasn't a seer in the same sense as Elizerain, and would have had no knowledge of the Chelsith Stone's calendar have made such an eerily accurate prediction as is given in his journal entry.</blockquote>Further searches on this bring up information regarding Freeport and Aataltaal and his assistant Lady DelailithAges ago, the Dwarven Sagas mention that the Hills of Shade (known to them as the Land of Steam and Shadow) had been full of ancient tombs and ruins, home to some unimportant civilisation. In this place, the Crushbone orcs mark that a Temple of Rallos Zek once existed and they often used to travel here for spiritual reasons.The elves, during the exodus of tunaria following the destruction of their home lands mention that they explored much of the continent and eventually made a settlement here called Durathin however due to the nature of the region, an earthquake eventually consumed this settlement and it was lost and the elves of the new founded Kelethin and Felwithe decided that it was not resourceful to rebuild here. Over time, this uninhabitted area became a magnet to anything wishing to escape the rule of order and law and many bandits, thieves and even undead naturally found a home here. Over time, their numbers grew and even some powerful undead found plenty of more dead from the tombs and graves of crumbled settlements to raise for their will and a eventually a 'black necropolis was founded'. These creatures went unnoticed for many years, until two twins, Mithaniel and Erollosi Marr became aware of their existence.During this time, Freeport was still known as Landing and Aataltaal was effectively the ruler (though he didn't wish it), Lady Delailith had a vision that Aataltaal was to be assassinated by Neriak during a storming of the city by Deathfist orcs. Aataltaal, planning for this and knowing he didn't want to be designated a ruler, decided to wait till the night of the attack and escape before it began leaving the remaining to be forced to choose a ruler (as mentioned in Lady Delailith's note on the OP). He left her with pieces of a very important artifact known as the Rod of Command and told her Freeport must be left to choose their own ruler and that she should leave too, unless Freeport desperately needed her aid again in the future. After this point, Lady Delailith assisted the forces with the defeat of the Deathfist attack and then on her own accord departed Freeport so they could their own ruler and left for the Hills of Shade until she might be needed again.Some time later, Erollosi and Mithaniel influenced the Priests of Marr and Knights of Truth to wage a war called the Crusade of Tears which took about a year to complete and they finally reached the source of the invasion in the Hills of Shade (as well as other destinations along the way). Some forces remained to help protect freeport, but it was mainly left with the Steel Warriors and the few knights including Sir Lucan D`lere who was left in charge - (oops). Fortunately for Lady Delailith, leaving Freeport did indeed resolve the problem and a ruler was effectively chosen, although though possibly the worst one. (depending on your opinion!)Eventually the campaign in the hills of shade was complete and the Hills of Shade temporarily cleansed, but during this time Sir Lucan D`lere had a made a real mess of things in freeport even going as far as murdering one of the other Paladins and sectioning off the entire northern section of the city. The city from this point was effectively in two and his militia, coupled with alliances with the Dismal Rage and the coalition of underground left him in power. However he did not fight with the remnents of the returning army, instead there was a stand off of equal forces he allowed them passage to the north side of Freeport where they remained.Eventually over time, Lady Delailith was buried in the hills of shade with a piece of the Rod of Command and the <a class="itemhover" href="http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=24694">Journal of Aataltaal</a> and her resting place was believed to be lost to time until the arrival of the Shadowed Men lead by Shade, a particularly unusual Shadowed Man in that he is not driven by following orders like his other brethren. He knew that the land was extremely deadly and the landscape chaotic and fraught with earthquakes and that is why no other race had managed to conquer this land. Instead he created a criminal organisation known as the Unseen and, ignoring his original orders, spent most of his efforts in recovering the artifact known as the Rod of Command which he believed would bestow him the power to rule all on a whim. And so over many years saught the tomb of Lady Delailith (known as the Barrow of Aataltaal) and eventually he located it, marked by symbols of the Combine Empire and Landing (old freeport) but as yet he has been unable to find more than one piece of the artifact (so far, the titan's rivet).

Rezikai

12-24-2009, 12:09 AM

<cite>Liched@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>well it states the the cross bones represent the end of the shissar so that in part is very useful if it's been provided by sonyhow many other articles on http://www.lorelibrary.com/ are fan fiction, i use that site alot but hope it was all to be either from a dev/in game/commissioned material</blockquote>Very few stories there are actual fan fiction, but remember that when something is posted on the Athenaeum, Rapha always tries to make it in-character from what I understand, and therefore to relay the information certain fictonal things are presented to give it the in-character feel. Ala the interviews with the Ethernaughts from last year.The above tale contains information that was given to Rapha to explain long before she posted it, but she had a baby IRL and it basically put a hold on her EQ2-lore hounding for a year.The knowledge in the article is also much as we're told, to be taken from the "viewers" standpoint and may not be exact cannon but as far as those that told the tale knew assumed as such, much as Eq2's lore is now.However the characters of the tale, myself, the dwarf, the 2 paladins are very much real as in-game as NPC's and/or real players, and we enjoyed finally getting to see her take on the tale, with the added interests as by the time it was written she had added the recent discovery of the 2 different doomsday symbols of Theer from the Palace of the Ancient.

RaphaNissi

12-24-2009, 02:35 AM

Seems I should come in and clear up a few things. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" />As Rezikai said, the news posted is supposed to be "in character" for the Library of another realm. As Mary said, I have tried to keep everything on the site canon and leave off the fan fiction part. There are only a couple of things I have written myself and have made darn sure of the facts in the stories. The tale before the Ethernaut interview was written by me which I stated in that article. The other piece is the one being questioned now. I try very hard to make sure I don't state theories as facts. If you look at the wording about the crossbones, it is not an absolute. Like Meirril and Rezikai said, the crossbones being associated with the releasing of the Greenmist and thus the massacre of the shissar is a conclusion that we have come to on the boards from in game evidence and thus what the players of the story know. We know it's association just like we know the association of other symbols but not it's name or true meaning. Being VERY interested in certain aspects of the lore, I have done a lot of research and question asking in those areas. With the knowledge obtained through those answers and the comments in the lore channel, I wrote the story. I put a disclaimer on the Ethernaut story and could have sworn I put one on this story as well. I did check with some umm.. "powers" (as Mary put it =p) before posting the story. The characters are all real players who have a voice on the boards/channel, and the story was written and posted to string together in game evidence and talk about the discovery of the sought after Monoliths of Theer.Everything else on the site is straight from SoE. I'll make sure to add a disclaimer to the Rogue's Tale.

Liched

12-24-2009, 03:00 AM

Thanks for the reply, appreciate your clarification on it - to me I read some things on there and I wonder if you guys get privy information from devs that we normally don't see or get bits from GM events so it's nice to know the source since I reference your site _alot_ (it's great!) Keep up the wonderful work, I really can't think of anything better in EQ than reading about the storyline, it's far more fun than making integers bigger, left clicking and watching bars go along <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> You guys make this possible for people like me and that is just a wonderful (and ad-free) gift you are giving to the whole community!

Rezikai

12-24-2009, 10:08 AM

<cite>Liched@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>Thanks for the reply, appreciate your clarification on it - to me I read some things on there and I wonder if you guys get privy information from devs that we normally don't see or get bits from GM events so it's nice to know the source since I reference your site _alot_ (it's great!) Keep up the wonderful work, I really can't think of anything better in EQ than reading about the storyline, it's far more fun than making integers bigger, left clicking and watching bars go along <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> You guys make this possible for people like me and that is just a wonderful (and ad-free) gift you are giving to the whole community!</blockquote>hehe,.. now you see why I cant toss aside the tale as Rapha's cannon photo with a fictional picture frame as player fictions since... *coughs*... we know better.

Mary the Prophetess

12-24-2009, 10:34 AM

Well, back to the topic at hand; that being can lore sources from non- official sources, (EQoA, EQ RPG game, EQ novels, LoN card game, pre-beta lore. expansion announcements and trailers, EQ related sites, etc.) be considered as valid lore sources?The answer would have to be an uneqivical--sometimes. I honestly believe that there is an effort on the part of various developers, authors and editors to try to keep Norrathian lore consistent. It seems to me that there is an unwritten understanding that no one will deliberately undercut someone else's lore and will, to whatever degree possible, validate and include such lore from other sources as is possible. Sometimes in small ways, and sometimes in larger ways. So, no, I do not believe that non-official lore should be discarded out of hand. Of course there are those that disagree with this view to be sure. I guess it's up to you to try to filter it based upon what we do know as official.

Meirril

12-25-2009, 12:46 AM

<cite>Liched@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>so people disagreed on what was said and they posted the article on the site anyway? that's misleading and it should be burned from the front page or at least tagged fanfiction! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>Who said there is any disagreements over that symbol? It just isn't verified by any kind of in-game identification. Identifying the symbols may never happen except by reasoning. It is unlikely that the dev team will include a peice of lore that describes by appearance the individual planar runes. I suppose we could get more lore via collection items and there could be a "planar rune collection" that correctly names them all...but I loathe collections as sources of Lore. I'm much happier with an actual book or NPC relating a story.

Liched

12-25-2009, 01:30 AM

The pond in Zek always reminds me of the rune of sunder

Pahya

12-25-2009, 04:31 AM

<cite>Mary the Prophetess wrote:</cite><blockquote>Well, back to the topic at hand; that being can lore sources from non- official sources, (EQoA, EQ RPG game, EQ novels, LoN card game, pre-beta lore. expansion announcements and trailers, EQ related sites, etc.) be considered as valid lore sources?</blockquote>In most fandom, there's primary lore and secondary lore. Unless something is stated explicitly as non-canon then the rule is that secondary lore (in the case, for example LoN, novels, PnP RPG books) can always be trumped by things found in primary lore (EQ, EQ2). We know that EQoA is set outside our world/timeline but I've heard nothing about the novels or RPG books so personally, unless it's off the wall or counted by something said by a dev or in the game I'll consider it canon.

Rezikai

12-25-2009, 05:32 AM

<cite>Pahya wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Mary the Prophetess wrote:</cite><blockquote>Well, back to the topic at hand; that being can lore sources from non- official sources, (EQoA, EQ RPG game, EQ novels, LoN card game, pre-beta lore. expansion announcements and trailers, EQ related sites, etc.) be considered as valid lore sources?</blockquote>In most fandom, there's primary lore and secondary lore. Unless something is stated explicitly as non-canon then the rule is that secondary lore (in the case, for example LoN, novels, PnP RPG books) can always be trumped by things found in primary lore (EQ, EQ2). We know that EQoA is set outside our world/timeline but I've heard nothing about the novels or RPG books so personally, unless it's off the wall or counted by something said by a dev or in the game I'll consider it canon. </blockquote>the PnP and RPG books are always in that mist of "possible" area imo,.. while some of them are wild and obviously not cannon some of it I can see as being part of the lore.. as is "some" of EQoA, however that games timeline and some of the actual places / events are cannon to the world/timeline we have here in eq2 as well, its just not as defined/mentioned since any lore from that game was usually in-game via quests. The devs were more in the grey area rather then to set in stone cannon from that game.

kachoppy

12-25-2009, 03:49 PM

some of the drinal parts sounds a lot like the eq1 bst epic lore.

Liched

12-25-2009, 05:19 PM

Yeah the Vah Shir worship one of the spirit gods more than any other (Sahteb Mahlni)

Mary the Prophetess

12-25-2009, 05:31 PM

Perhaps we are going about this the wrong way. We already know what the end result is supposed to be: Ages End. What exactly does that mean though? Is the Chelsith Stone the Norrathian equivilent of the Mayan Calendar, and all is supposed to end in 2012? Or is it simply when the calendar runs out, and events beyond it were not forseen by the Shissar.Well, if it is meant to be the 'End of Days', we all know that that cannot happen in-game, and something or someone will intervene to save us, (either we players will prevent it, or we will be saved by 'deus ex machina' from the developers). Perhaps if we tried to view the Stone from the end of the calendar backward, instead of the beginning forward, we might gain some new insights.Just trying to get out of the box a bit.

Liched

12-25-2009, 06:06 PM

Hmm I think ages end might mean:a) the end of everythingb) the beginning of something newc) the completion of a story/destinyd) a restart on the story to begin again (ouroboros)<div>e) the end of the story of norrath - perhaps we will find a new planet?</div>I would look at the shissar stone backwards like this but this is just my view------------------Drinal waits to hold shared control over the planetLuclin (Shadow) starts to holds shared control over the planetDeath begins to influence the planetWar begins to influence the planetKnowledge begins to influence the planetMadness begins to influence the planetPrexus (Water) holds shared control over the planetTunare (Nature) holds shared control over the planetBrell Serilis (Earth) holds shared control over the planetV - Veeshan (Sky) claims the planet------------------<div>I think, since Sky and Earth came first in EQ1, EQ2 and RPG lore it would make sense, take a look at this from the Minotaur lore</div><div></div><div>When it began, there was but Earth and Sky. Nothing else existed, for nothing had to. They were not friends, nor were they enemies. And this is the way it would be countless ages, for there was no such thing as time. But all things must come to an end, as did the wholeness of Earth and Sky.</div><div>Sky was loud and Earth was quiet. Sky was quick to anger and would scream when upset, which would happen much of the time. Earth was slow to anger, but when provoked would rumble louder and groan with its displeasure. Not understanding Sky, Earth took a piece of its partner and created companions that had some of its own qualities. And thus, the Kings were made.Seeing the companions Earth had made, Sky took a piece of its partner and made a companion of its own. Placing a piece of itself into the piece of Earth, it floated in the space that was Sky. And since Sky only did this out of jealousy, Sky told its new companion that it should be seen by all of the Kings and Earth to let them know that Sky’s companion was better. And this, the Sun was made.Soon enough, both Earth and the Kings would see the greatness of the Sky Sun. Earth wanted the Sky Sun as a companion as well and asked the Kings to spread their great wings and fly upwards to snatch it from Sky. Sky, remaining ever jealous, told Sky Sun to go away whenever the Kings flew too close. Thus, Night and Day were made.Sky, being insecure, was lonely whenever the Sky Sun would leave her alone. So Sky, in her jealousy, reached down again and took another piece from Earth and made two more companions. Having taken a large piece, Sky cut it in half and made two companions. Though not as bright as the Sky Sun, both of these new companions would entertain Sky when the Sky Sun was away. And thus, the Two Moons were made.Earth watched as Sky created more companions and after much consideration, chose to make more companions than Sky ever could. He reached up and grabbed many pieces of Sky and made companion after companion after companion. Soon enough, there were more companions than could be counted. And thus, Life was created.Sky soon noticed that it only had three companions and Earth had many. Barely able to contain its anger Sky screamed like a bawling child. The screaming continued for so much time that when it finally calmed, Sky looked down and saw that it had scattered Life to many different corners of Earth. And thus, the Races were made.Feeling anger for what Sky had done to Life, Earth had erupted into anger. Lashing out personally at Sky, it hurled itself up towards its partner. Fiery violence flew high towards Sky, cutting her and scraping her. Every blow landed against Sky would create a small little hole to mark the damage, and all of the fists would fall back to Earth. And thus, the Stars and the Mountains were made.From every cut that punctured its body, Sky would bleed. And since there were hundreds of punches, there was much blood. Sky would bleed and bleed, not stopping for many ages. Covering Earth in its blood, it would take many ages before Sky would staunch the flow, though never healing the wounds. And thus, the Oceans were made.This would be known as the First Battle. It would mark the beginning of the endless battle between Earth and Sky. The fight would last for many eternities, for both sides were no longer partners but now enemies. This would continue until the Last Battle would come one day.When it is to end, Sky and Earth would wage endless war against each other. As one side gained the advantage, the other side would steal it away from the other. This would continue until both agreed to one Final Battle. Sky made its champions to fight against Earth, and Earth made its champions to fight against Sky.Earth thought long and hard and created its champion. Taking only from Earth and placing no Sky within its creation, Earth breathed its own essence into its warriors. Sky watched Earth, and being ever jealous, stole some of Earth to put in its champions. Earth was smarter, for there was not much room for Sky’s essence in its creations. And thus, the Minotaurs and the Valkyries were created.As the Final Battle would begin, the Minotaurs would win every battle. Soon enough Sky realized it was about to lose, the great act of treachery was performed. Sky hid away its champions to stall the battle. Earth seeing this, stole a piece of Sky when it wasn’t looking and showed the Minotaurs how to use Sky against its champions when the battle would resume. And thus, Magic was made.The Kings would watch as the Minotaurs were given everything and they, Earth’s first companions, were given nothing. Having a piece of Sky within them, they felt jealousy just as she did. The Kings reached out and stole most of the Minotaur’s Magic, upon which Earth banished the Kings into a circle of hidden places. And thus, the Evil Ring was made.Thinking this was a sign of weakness on Earth’s part, Sky brought forth the Valkyries once again. Continuing to cheat during the Final Battle, Sky summoned forth all of its strength and blew away all of the Earth’s many, many companions. All that remained on Earth’s body were the Minotaurs and the Valkyries. And thus, the Last Two were made.As the two champions fought, so would Earth and Sky. Watching as both champions were about to end in a draw, Sky launched a daring assault upon Earth. Opening all of its old wounds, Sky began to bleed upon Earth hoping to drown the Minotaurs. Earth was ready for this trick and formed a shield. The blood of Sky and the shield of Earth would become merged as one. And thus, Ice was formed.Sky could no longer reach Earth and Earth could no longer reach Sky, for Ice separated the two. Knowing that Sky could no longer touch Earth in anger, its anger raged out of control. Getting more and more angry, Sky spun itself into great circling storms until finally it could not undo the great knot it had tied itself in. And thus, the Great Maelstrom was made.Earth could no longer reach Sky and Sky could no longer reach Earth, for Ice separated the two. Knowing that Earth was prevented from lashing out in its anger, it began to boil and stew in its frustration. Its anger would rumble and rumble, tearing itself apart. When the anger subsided, Earth had crumbled until it was only a tiny portion of what it used to be. And thus, the Final Land was made.Knowing the Last Battle could not be won by cheating, allowing only for the champions to decide the outcome, Sky became spiteful. Reaching over to one of its original companions, Sky squeezed it until it burst, raining pieces of a Moon down upon the Ice. And thus, the One Moon was made.And now the fight continues. The Valkyries are the champions of Sky and we Minotaurs are the champions of Earth. The Final Battle will be fought until there is only one victor. And since we Minotaurs have more essence of Earth than the Valkyries have of Sky, it is only a matter of time before Earth prevails and the Valkyries are destroyed.</div>

Liched

12-29-2009, 02:20 AM

I wonder if the 9 dots are the 9 members of the council?The Keeper of Secrets says, "When the one who walked from the water is made whole, the heralds of the nine shall arise. Knowledge is key. That is all.Call me fascinated with that lizardmen lore, but I think that the Allizewsaur is coming and he's going to kick some butt and the 9 are going to have to deal with it.

Rezikai

12-29-2009, 03:38 AM

<cite>Liched@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>I wonder if the 9 dots are the 9 members of the council?The Keeper of Secrets says, "When the one who walked from the water is made whole, the heralds of the nine shall arise. Knowledge is key. That is all.Call me fascinated with that lizardmen lore, but I think that the Allizewsaur is coming and he's going to kick some butt and the 9 are going to have to deal with it.</blockquote>Hmmm a theory some had were the 9 were the "true" Ethernaughts, the only thing that snags that is the fact in the progression of the prophecy, that when we as players make Zeb "whole" again by defeating Chel`Drak, 2 whole continents are re-discovered and alot of progression takes place from the time we make him whole until the time of the TsO expac where the a title players could get as "Herald of the Ethernaughts" was around, perhaps it was done this way to keep the lore more cryptic and seem less linear, and keep things more fresh.Again just a theory.

Cusashorn

12-29-2009, 06:22 AM

<cite>Liched@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yeah the Vah Shir worship one of the spirit gods more than any other (Sahteb Mahlni)</blockquote>They worshipped spirits, not spirit dieties. Sahteb Mahlni didn't exist in EQlive. It was only mentioned from EQOA.<cite>Liched@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>I wonder if the 9 dots are the 9 members of the council?The Keeper of Secrets says, "When the one who walked from the water is made whole, the heralds of the nine shall arise. Knowledge is key. That is all.Call me fascinated with that lizardmen lore, but I think that the Allizewsaur is coming and he's going to kick some butt and the 9 are going to have to deal with it.</blockquote>That Keeper of Secrets hasn't been updated since Fallen Dynasty. The Ethernaut storyline hadn't even been written just yet. That prophecy right there is talking about Zebuxoruk regaining his memories in FD itself, and supposedly the dieties who returned to Norrath, even if Bristlebane was late for the party.You can fight the Allizewsaur in an Epic Instance in Feerrott btw. He's been there since the start of the game.

Liched

12-29-2009, 06:44 AM

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Liched@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yeah the Vah Shir worship one of the spirit gods more than any other (Sahteb Mahlni)</blockquote>They worshipped spirits, not spirit dieties. Sahteb Mahlni didn't exist in EQlive. It was only mentioned from EQOA.<cite>Liched@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>I wonder if the 9 dots are the 9 members of the council?The Keeper of Secrets says, "When the one who walked from the water is made whole, the heralds of the nine shall arise. Knowledge is key. That is all.Call me fascinated with that lizardmen lore, but I think that the Allizewsaur is coming and he's going to kick some butt and the 9 are going to have to deal with it.</blockquote>That Keeper of Secrets hasn't been updated since Fallen Dynasty. The Ethernaut storyline hadn't even been written just yet. That prophecy right there is talking about Zebuxoruk regaining his memories in FD itself, and supposedly the dieties who returned to Norrath, even if Bristlebane was late for the party.You can fight the Allizewsaur in an Epic Instance in Feerrott btw. He's been there since the start of the game.</blockquote>sahteb is mentioned in eqrpg, eqoa and eqlive in shar vahl so i'm pretty sure they do worship them and has relevence herei'm not sure about zeb walking from water could you give me some more info to clue me up?re: allizewsaur, sweet! didn't know that i'll have to check him out!

Liched

12-29-2009, 08:04 AM

<cite>Liched@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just a thought here but the symbols in the circles we are talking about are located on the druid rings in Mara too, right? Which is an extremely small island. Since this is such a compact area in the world it might help to look at all the races that have visited there other than the monks. There's nothing that I can remember in EQ1 or the RPG regarding mara, but EQ2 might have something in the dynasty lore to enlighten us on these few circles/possible moons. I have a strong feeling they will be prexus tunare and brell already in the planet but it would be nice to get a confirmation on this as well as the Eye/Shadow that's entering norrath on the Chelsith Stone as being Luclin.</blockquote>'Their bodies were deconstructed and assimilated with the unique mana that runs from each of the druid rings. There are eight of these druids each a specialist in one of the powers that create nature; Decay, Growth, Health, Ocean, Sky, Storm, Sun and Underfoot.' - VhalenNeed to grab the symbols off the druid rings and match them up to the circles in the chelsith stone, will do this when i get back, gonna hit the sack for tonight!

Ragnaphore

12-29-2009, 01:00 PM

<cite>Liched@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>i'm not sure about zeb walking from water could you give me some more info to clue me up?</blockquote>It's the storyline of the "Fallen Dinasty".In short, Mara's Monks found an amnesic Zeb walking from the sea decades ago and he now lives at the top of their tower, do the questline to gain access to his floor and then bring his memories back.

Cusashorn

12-29-2009, 02:48 PM

<cite>Liched@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>sahteb is mentioned in eqrpg, eqoa and eqlive in shar vahl so i'm pretty sure they do worship them and has relevence herei'm not sure about zeb walking from water could you give me some more info to clue me up?re: allizewsaur, sweet! didn't know that i'll have to check him out!</blockquote>They do not mention him in EQlive. They state that the Vah Shir worship the natural spirits, but give no names. Many of us here in EQ2 had not heard of this Sahteb person until after EQ2 came out, and that was only because people had started mentioning EQOA here on the boards.

Liched

12-29-2009, 04:48 PM

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Liched@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>sahteb is mentioned in eqrpg, eqoa and eqlive in shar vahl so i'm pretty sure they do worship them and has relevence herei'm not sure about zeb walking from water could you give me some more info to clue me up?re: allizewsaur, sweet! didn't know that i'll have to check him out!</blockquote>They do not mention him in EQlive. They state that the Vah Shir worship the natural spirits, but give no names. Many of us here in EQ2 had not heard of this Sahteb person until after EQ2 came out, and that was only because people had started mentioning EQOA here on the boards.</blockquote>They do <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Cusashorn

12-29-2009, 05:45 PM

Then show it. I don't mean to doubt you, but I find myself very confused about many of your posts as of late. You bring in this information without telling us why you post it, or where you get it from.I'm well aware that a single quest in EQOA mentions Sahteb, but thats it. Unless you can tell me where it's mentioned in EQlive or EQ2, then everything you pick up from the EQRPG and most of what is mentioned in EQOA must be taken with a grain of salt.Remember: EQlive and EQ2 are the source games. Anything not actually mentioned in them is not actually canon unless stated otherwise by a developer or other official representative. If the Vah Shir in EQlive worshiped Sahteb, then I must ask that you show me WHERE in EQlive you actually heard or see them mention it.

Iskandar

12-29-2009, 09:18 PM

The only time I recall ever seeing Sahteb Mahlni mentioned in EQ1 was at the very end of the Beastlrd epic 2.0 quest:The air begins to rumble with a harmony of deep growls and all savage creatures grow restless with the passing breath and approval of the great animal spirit, Sahteb Mahlni.When you read the entire context of the event (<a href="http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/quest.html?quest=3317">http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/...html?quest=3317</a>), it's not a situation of religious worship... it's about being at one with the spirits of the wild and the connection the Beastlrd has with each.I never got the impression that there was any diety worhsip involved with Kerrans or Vah Shir at all (as I recall, they were agnostic at character creation), but rather there was a deep connection with the spirits of their ancestors and the spirits of the beasts of the land.PS -- why the heck is Beastlrd (as a correctly spelled word) a "censored word?" o.O

Taurus_WD

12-29-2009, 09:39 PM

<cite>Iskandar wrote:</cite><blockquote>PS -- why the heck is Beastlrd (as a correctly spelled word) a "censored word?" o.O</blockquote>That would probably be because that is the class that shall not be named. It is not coming back, the even stickied a thread in the general gameplay discussion board to make that point. I'm guessing the only hint of it ever coming back would be if that thread magically became unstickied, which would be a major shock to say the least.

DukeOccam

12-29-2009, 10:28 PM

Streisand Effect in action.This question gets asked every time "the B-word" is censored, thus renewing discussion on the topic time and time again.

Iskandar

12-29-2009, 10:42 PM

haha! First time I've made a post that referenced them in the EQ2 forums, so it kinda threw me off why it was doing that <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" />

Liched

12-30-2009, 03:45 AM

<cite>Liched@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Liched@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>sahteb is mentioned in eqrpg, eqoa and eqlive in shar vahl so i'm pretty sure they do worship them and has relevence herei'm not sure about zeb walking from water could you give me some more info to clue me up?re: allizewsaur, sweet! didn't know that i'll have to check him out!</blockquote>They do not mention him in EQlive. They state that the Vah Shir worship the natural spirits, but give no names. Many of us here in EQ2 had not heard of this Sahteb person until after EQ2 came out, and that was only because people had started mentioning EQOA here on the boards.</blockquote>They do <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>thanks for the reference, i was certain of it

Liched

12-30-2009, 03:51 AM

<cite>Liched@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Liched@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just a thought here but the symbols in the circles we are talking about are located on the druid rings in Mara too, right? Which is an extremely small island. Since this is such a compact area in the world it might help to look at all the races that have visited there other than the monks. There's nothing that I can remember in EQ1 or the RPG regarding mara, but EQ2 might have something in the dynasty lore to enlighten us on these few circles/possible moons. I have a strong feeling they will be prexus tunare and brell already in the planet but it would be nice to get a confirmation on this as well as the Eye/Shadow that's entering norrath on the Chelsith Stone as being Luclin.</blockquote>'Their bodies were deconstructed and assimilated with the unique mana that runs from each of the druid rings. There are eight of these druids each a specialist in one of the powers that create nature; Decay, Growth, Health, Ocean, Sky, Storm, Sun and Underfoot.' - VhalenNeed to grab the symbols off the druid rings and match them up to the circles in the chelsith stone, will do this when i get back, gonna hit the sack for tonight!</blockquote>Has anyone else had any thoughts on this?

KniteShayd

02-03-2010, 11:27 AM

<cite>Liched@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Liched@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Liched@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just a thought here but the symbols in the circles we are talking about are located on the druid rings in Mara too, right? Which is an extremely small island. Since this is such a compact area in the world it might help to look at all the races that have visited there other than the monks. There's nothing that I can remember in EQ1 or the RPG regarding mara, but EQ2 might have something in the dynasty lore to enlighten us on these few circles/possible moons. I have a strong feeling they will be prexus tunare and brell already in the planet but it would be nice to get a confirmation on this as well as the Eye/Shadow that's entering norrath on the Chelsith Stone as being Luclin.</blockquote>'Their bodies were deconstructed and assimilated with the unique mana that runs from each of the druid rings. There are eight of these druids each a specialist in one of the powers that create nature; Decay, Growth, Health, Ocean, Sky, Storm, Sun and Underfoot.' - VhalenNeed to grab the symbols off the druid rings and match them up to the circles in the chelsith stone, will do this when i get back, gonna hit the sack for tonight!</blockquote>Has anyone else had any thoughts on this?</blockquote>If Vhalen DiD mention that, then I was right in the post I made about the symbols corresponding to the dieties. Yay! for me!!<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" />