Bruiser~Monk

[Achur]

<p>Ohtay i know Monk and Bruiser are Similar.... BUT!!! my question is, what is the Difference between the two Class? besides one being Evil, and other Good? Is there any Difference?</p>

[Quicksilver74]

<p>Not very much, other than a few select spells, like the raidwide buffs. </p>

[Achur]

<p>Oh!!! okay, thats what i thought.... Cuz i have a Bruiser but its that um Arasai.... and well i not liking it like that, as much lol... So i was gonna re make it... but wanted to know if there was any Difference... Other wise i will stay a Bruiser, but just a different Race lol</p>

[Lethe5683]

<p><cite>Achur wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Ohtay i know Monk and Bruiser are Similar.... BUT!!! my question is, what is the Difference between the two Class? besides one being Evil, and other Good? Is there any Difference?</p></blockquote><p>Not much really.  In the past monks were more defensive and bruisers more offensive but now really bruisers are just better, but not by much.</p>

[Aull]

<p>Years ago I would say that the monk being more defensive and the bruiser more offensive gave them individuality. It is sad to me that back in the day monk tsunami owned anything a bruiser or other fighters had and now basically every fighter has a tsunami spin off ability. Sorry but that sucks. In todays game both are very very close in the area's they are involved in. An advantange for the monk in they do have slightly better utility.</p>

[BChizzle]

<p><cite>Achur wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Ohtay i know Monk and Bruiser are Similar.... BUT!!! my question is, what is the Difference between the two Class? besides one being Evil, and other Good? Is there any Difference?</p></blockquote><p>Monks have lower hitting but fast refreshing CA's and higher self haste and generate more auto attack dps while bruisers have higher ca damage to even things out.  Monks have a slight advantage in mit and avoid while bruisers have damage reduction and stoneskins.</p>

[Lethe5683]

<p><cite>BChizzle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Achur wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Ohtay i know Monk and Bruiser are Similar.... BUT!!! my question is, what is the Difference between the two Class? besides one being Evil, and other Good? Is there any Difference?</p></blockquote><p>Monks have lower hitting but fast refreshing CA's and higher self haste and <span style="color: #ff0000;">generate more auto attack dps</span> while bruisers have higher ca damage to even things out.  <span style="color: #ff0000;">Monks have a slight advantage in mit and avoid</span> while bruisers have damage reduction and stoneskins.</p></blockquote><p>Please explain because I am pretty certain monks and bruiser generate the same autoattack damage and I don't know of any reason monks have better avoidance, in fact I think they have worse.</p>

[BChizzle]

<p><cite>Lethe5683 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>BChizzle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Achur wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Ohtay i know Monk and Bruiser are Similar.... BUT!!! my question is, what is the Difference between the two Class? besides one being Evil, and other Good? Is there any Difference?</p></blockquote><p>Monks have lower hitting but fast refreshing CA's and higher self haste and <span style="color: #ff0000;">generate more auto attack dps</span> while bruisers have higher ca damage to even things out.  <span style="color: #ff0000;">Monks have a slight advantage in mit and avoid</span> while bruisers have damage reduction and stoneskins.</p></blockquote><p>Please explain because I am pretty certain monks and bruiser generate the same autoattack damage and I don't know of any reason monks have better avoidance, in fact I think they have worse.</p></blockquote><p>Faster self haste = more auto attack dmg</p><p>Superior Riposte = more avoidance</p>

[Lethe5683]

<p><cite>BChizzle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Lethe5683 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>BChizzle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Achur wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Ohtay i know Monk and Bruiser are Similar.... BUT!!! my question is, what is the Difference between the two Class? besides one being Evil, and other Good? Is there any Difference?</p></blockquote><p>Monks have lower hitting but fast refreshing CA's and higher self haste and <span style="color: #ff0000;">generate more auto attack dps</span> while bruisers have higher ca damage to even things out.  <span style="color: #ff0000;">Monks have a slight advantage in mit and avoid</span> while bruisers have damage reduction and stoneskins.</p></blockquote><p>Please explain because I am pretty certain monks and bruiser generate the same autoattack damage and I don't know of any reason monks have better avoidance, in fact I think they have worse.</p></blockquote><p>Faster self haste = more auto attack dmg</p><p>Superior Riposte = more avoidance</p></blockquote><p>Faster self haste is only a situational increase in auto attack damage but I guess that does count if you are comparing them when solo.</p><p>What do you mean by superior riposite?  I hope you don't mean the AA ability because that is not very good at all and then you would have to count the fact that bruisers get two 100% avoidance temp buffs while monks only get 1.</p>

[Damager]

<p><cite>Lethe5683 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>BChizzle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Lethe5683 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>BChizzle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Achur wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Ohtay i know Monk and Bruiser are Similar.... BUT!!! my question is, what is the Difference between the two Class? besides one being Evil, and other Good? Is there any Difference?</p></blockquote><p>Monks have lower hitting but fast refreshing CA's and higher self haste and <span style="color: #ff0000;">generate more auto attack dps</span> while bruisers have higher ca damage to even things out.  <span style="color: #ff0000;">Monks have a slight advantage in mit and avoid</span> while bruisers have damage reduction and stoneskins.</p></blockquote><p>Please explain because I am pretty certain monks and bruiser generate the same autoattack damage and I don't know of any reason monks have better avoidance, in fact I think they have worse.</p></blockquote><p>Faster self haste = more auto attack dmg</p><p>Superior Riposte = more avoidance</p></blockquote><p>Faster self haste is only a situational increase in auto attack damage but I guess that does count if you are comparing them when solo.</p><p>What do you mean by superior riposite?  I hope you don't mean the AA ability because that is not very good at all and then you would have to count the fact that bruisers get two 100% avoidance temp buffs while monks only get 1.</p></blockquote><p>Yes, when comparing two of anything you would compare them individualy not in group setup. </p><p>60-70% of all monks DPS is autoattack. Bruisers have larger CAs then Monks but monks have faster autoattack (haste self buffed around 165ish).</p><p>Is this situational? of course but monks can get other buffs as easily as bruisers can get haste buffs.  </p><p>I would probably put bruiser higher in tanking abilities but Ive played a monk for several years as my main and just started playing the bruiser so not definate. On Epic tanking I would much rather have meditative healing rather then Adrenaline rush.</p><p>DPS seems to be equal as well as play style.</p>

[Lethe5683]

<p><cite>Damager wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Lethe5683 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>BChizzle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Lethe5683 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>BChizzle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Achur wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Ohtay i know Monk and Bruiser are Similar.... BUT!!! my question is, what is the Difference between the two Class? besides one being Evil, and other Good? Is there any Difference?</p></blockquote><p>Monks have lower hitting but fast refreshing CA's and higher self haste and <span style="color: #ff0000;">generate more auto attack dps</span> while bruisers have higher ca damage to even things out.  <span style="color: #ff0000;">Monks have a slight advantage in mit and avoid</span> while bruisers have damage reduction and stoneskins.</p></blockquote><p>Please explain because I am pretty certain monks and bruiser generate the same autoattack damage and I don't know of any reason monks have better avoidance, in fact I think they have worse.</p></blockquote><p>Faster self haste = more auto attack dmg</p><p>Superior Riposte = more avoidance</p></blockquote><p>Faster self haste is only a situational increase in auto attack damage but I guess that does count if you are comparing them when solo.</p><p>What do you mean by superior riposite?  I hope you don't mean the AA ability because that is not very good at all and then you would have to count the fact that bruisers get two 100% avoidance temp buffs while monks only get 1.</p></blockquote><p>Yes, when comparing two of anything you would compare them individualy not in group setup. </p><p>60-70% of all monks DPS is autoattack. Bruisers have larger CAs then Monks but monks have faster autoattack (haste self buffed around 165ish).</p><p>Is this situational? of course but monks can get other buffs as easily as bruisers can get haste buffs.  </p><p>I would probably put bruiser higher in tanking abilities but Ive played a monk for several years as my main and just started playing the bruiser so not definate. On Epic tanking I would much rather have meditative healing rather then Adrenaline rush.</p><p>DPS seems to be equal as well as play style.</p></blockquote><p> </p><p>I guess I might be biased from usually grouping with an Illy but I'm a bruiser and my haste is almost always capped in groups.  I'm not sure what meditative healing does but adrenaline rush is so useless I didn't even put a single AA into it.</p>

[Aull]

<p>I will need to look on my alchy again but if I remember bruisers only have three maybe four ca's that have a larger high hit number. While monks have a few that do not hit as hard almost every other ca for the monk have a larger hit number on the low end of damage. Example. 150-950 bruiser and 300-850 monk. Again those are just examples.</p><p>Also of 13 compairable combat arts the bruiser has only 4 that refresh at/under 30secs while the monk has 9 that refresh at/under 30 secs. Couple that with monk high self haste in a horrible group buff situation or just soloing and the monk should be better and consistant dps.</p><p>The only downside to having the high self haste is that when other haste buffs are available the monk cannot capitalize on them since they are usually already capped.</p><p>Bruiser do get an offensive stance proc and manhandle proc that is nice one a bruiser gets the haste similar to a monk. So if both monk and bruiser are capped in haste then the bruiser should be slightly better auto attack.</p><p>Adrenaline rush is a joke for non raiding situations.</p><p>When I look at monk abilities and bruiser abilities I would say that monks have better defense and offense when looking at the whole picture.</p><p>If monks get better aoe aggro they will be a force to recon with being able to have tanking skills, dps, and better utility than the bruiser.</p><p>Also I have yet to see any bruiser parse numbers like BChizzle.</p>

[Ambrin]

<p>The monk mythical also has 50% strikethrough that bruisers do not get, giving them and advantage in hit rates and DPS.</p><p>By the way, monks also have 2 avoidance moves; Tsunami and a TSO endline.</p>

[Aull]

<p><cite>Visjeer@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The monk mythical also has 50% strikethrough that bruisers do not get, giving them and advantage in hit rates and DPS.</p><p>By the way, monks also have 2 avoidance moves; Tsunami and a TSO endline.</p></blockquote><p>Well bruisers get a tso endline tsunami spin off. If bruiser has mythical there is another tsunami spin off again. Imho the bruiser mythical clicky never should have been a monk spin off ability but something more unique to bruiser abilites. So bruisers should not be getting a strikethrough spin off like what a monk has either. To me these two brawlers need more individuality.</p><p>SOE did the monks wrong when tsunami type abilities are being given to other fighters. To me that is horse @#$*. I have no beef with brawlers being similar but they should not be so closely related as they are now. Monk and bruiser tanking and dps are very very close. Neither one actually has the so called advantage as the "tough brawler" and the "dps brawler". The only thing I see is that monks have always been more appealing to groups and raids.</p>

[Lethe5683]

<p><cite>Visjeer@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The monk mythical also has 50% strikethrough that bruisers do not get, giving them and advantage in hit rates and DPS.</p><p>By the way, monks also have 2 avoidance moves; Tsunami and a TSO endline.</p></blockquote><p>Bruisers have two avoidance moves also.</p><p>1. TSO endline, 100% deflection</p><p>2. Mythical, 100% dodge <em>and</em> heal.</p>

[Lethe5683]

<p><cite>Aull wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I will need to look on my alchy again but if I remember bruisers only have three maybe four ca's that have a larger high hit number. While monks have a few that do not hit as hard almost every other ca for the monk have a larger hit number on the low end of damage. Example. 150-950 bruiser and 300-850 monk. Again those are just examples.</p><p>Also of 13 compairable combat arts the bruiser has only 4 that refresh at/under 30secs while the monk has 9 that refresh at/under 30 secs. Couple that with monk high self haste in a horrible group buff situation or just soloing and the monk should be better and consistant dps.</p></blockquote><p>I think the main thing that gives bruisers more CA damage is the knockout combination.  That + chi = incredible burst dps.</p>

[Lethe5683]

<p><cite>Aull wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Visjeer@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The monk mythical also has 50% strikethrough that bruisers do not get, giving them and advantage in hit rates and DPS.</p><p>By the way, monks also have 2 avoidance moves; Tsunami and a TSO endline.</p></blockquote><p>Well bruisers get a tso endline tsunami spin off. If bruiser has mythical there is another tsunami spin off again. Imho the bruiser mythical clicky never should have been a monk spin off ability but something more unique to bruiser abilites. So bruisers should not be getting a strikethrough spin off like what a monk has either. To me these two brawlers need more individuality.</p><p>SOE did the monks wrong when tsunami type abilities are being given to other fighters. To me that is horse @#$*. I have no beef with brawlers being similar but they should not be so closely related as they are now. Monk and bruiser tanking and dps are very very close. Neither one actually has the so called advantage as the "tough brawler" and the "dps brawler". The only thing I see is that monks have always been more appealing to groups and raids.</p></blockquote><p>The plate tanks getting those 100% avoidance moves makes me want to punch a wall.  There is no reason they should ever get anything like that.</p>

[circusgirl]

<p>There's actually a <strong>ton</strong> of ways for plate tanks to up their avoidance by a huge amount: avoidance food/drink, tsunami-like abilities, the avoidance buff that every tank has, wrist adornments, weapon adornments, shield ally, etc.  There's far, far less to cover a weakness in mitigation--you basically have bard buffs, the paladin raidwide, and some very, very outdated jewelry from shard of hate.  A plate tank can easily double their avoidance with a cleric in group and a brawler in raid, while there is absolutely no equivalent path for a brawler to double their mitigation.  To me, thats the biggest cause of the survivability differential between leather and plate at the high end.</p>

[Damager]

<blockquote><p>I guess I might be biased from usually grouping with an Illy but I'm a bruiser and my haste is almost always capped in groups.  I'm not sure what meditative healing does but adrenaline rush is so useless I didn't even put a single AA into it.</p></blockquote><p>That is exactly what your misunderstanding is as an Illy has way less effect on a monk then on a bruiser its there mechanics. Dirge/Coercer would benifit monk way more then an Illy. Ive been buffed over 300 haste what a waist.</p><p>Meditative healing = if you are hit for 40% of your HPs or more you instant heal 15% of your max health (5AAs) takes away spike damage. this is btw only usefull on epics and should be dropped to 25-30%.</p><p>One of my biggest complaints is how easy plates get avoid and monks very little in MIT, Also that Mobs can strikethrough our avaoidance thats BS and Killed the brawlers.</p>

[Lethe5683]

<p><cite>Damager wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Meditative healing = if you are hit for 40% of your HPs or more you instant heal 15% of your max health (5AAs) takes away spike damage. this is btw only usefull on epics and should be dropped to 25-30%.</p></blockquote><p>Is that a passive buff?</p>

[Morghus]

<p><cite>Lethe5683 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Damager wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Meditative healing = if you are hit for 40% of your HPs or more you instant heal 15% of your max health (5AAs) takes away spike damage. this is btw only usefull on epics and should be dropped to 25-30%.</p></blockquote><p>Is that a passive buff?</p></blockquote><p>Yes, it is the monk version of the one bruisers get that has a chance to put a stoneskin on when taking over 40% damage.</p>

[Lethe5683]

<p><cite>Morghus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Lethe5683 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Damager wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Meditative healing = if you are hit for 40% of your HPs or more you instant heal 15% of your max health (5AAs) takes away spike damage. this is btw only usefull on epics and should be dropped to 25-30%.</p></blockquote><p>Is that a passive buff?</p></blockquote><p>Yes, it is the monk version of the one bruisers get that has a chance to put a stoneskin on when taking over 40% damage.</p></blockquote><p>They really need to change it from 40 to 30 or at least 35 since even vs raidmobs sometimes 40% is too much to trigger.</p>

[Rakurai]

<p><cite>Vinka@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>There's actually a <strong>ton</strong> of ways for plate tanks to up their avoidance by a huge amount: avoidance food/drink, tsunami-like abilities, the avoidance buff that every tank has, wrist adornments, weapon adornments, shield ally, etc.  There's far, far less to cover a weakness in mitigation--you basically have bard buffs, the paladin raidwide, and some very, very outdated jewelry from shard of hate.  A plate tank can easily double their avoidance with a cleric in group and a brawler in raid, while there is absolutely no equivalent path for a brawler to double their mitigation.  To me, thats the biggest cause of the survivability differential between leather and plate at the high end.</p></blockquote><p>Paladin raidwide is mitigation boost to all NON-Fighters. =/ So unless you get the individual Donation of Armarment single target mit boost from either Crusader (They have to be in your group also, not raid member) you don't get any bonus. The single target also drops the crusaders mitigation by more than it boosts yours so unless you have a spare crusader around this doesn't get used often. Pally raid version is AA alternative that does not lower mitigation.</p>

[circusgirl]

<p>Hah, I totally didn't realize that the paladin raidwide was only non-fighters.  Well, that blows.  I've been pushing for more mitigation buffs (specifically something as uber as the brawler avoidance lend is only buffing mit instead) and people always tend to point out pledge of armament.  I really wish that pledge didn't hurt the mitigation of the crusader, as it is it makes the spell a little useless.</p>