Templar: some help with playing solo/duo at lower levels [Archive]

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drakkenshie

12-09-2009, 12:46 PM

This forum interests me because I have a new Templar, currently level 31, and have a hard time with him.Most of you guys are giving good information, but most of the time it seems geared for high level Templars with a lot of AA points.I need more help with a lower level Templar that I'm slowly leveling. I'm more of a quester than a grinder, and doing quests and combat support is more important to me than trying to level my toon fast.Most of my time is spent in a duo with a Conjurer. She can do incredible damage and heal her tank, and solo perfectly and very fast. However, we like the challenge of doing heroic group content as a duo, so I have a Templar to keep her and her tank pet alive. We do really well, running duo on quests that I have seen groups struggling with.However, I'm finding Templar frustrating for a few reasons, and I think some of you could probably help me out with it.I realize some of my goals might be / are in conflict, but I have to start the discussion somewhere.Number one... I run out of power a lot. We usually finish the fight first, but it happens enough I'd like to solve it.Number two... sometimes in duo or even groups I cannot protect my group from stun type debuffs, and interrupts are a problem.Number three... it's inevitable that I have to spend time soloing. Schedules and different lives mean I'm not always with my friends. My DPS is dismal. I find it difficult to solo even-con quests, and sometimes even-con, arrow down stuff.Examples:In Zek, when we duo... I get stunned a lot and cannot save my Conjurer. Interrupts are also an issue. We actually do pretty well, but I'd like to know how to improve upon that, ideas for tactics, etc.Spire quests: those where you attack 3 sets of 4 mobs. My Templar gets slaughtered doing those, and they are slightly below con. I get interrupted, hit very hard, and I can't do much damage.I have tried a DPS and a split DPS/heal setup, neither is working very well.My current setup is around 32 AAs, and is a recent AA setup experiment:INT: 4 4 4STA: 4 1WIS 4Holy Smites: 3, Light Strike 1Blessings: 3, Amending Fate 3 I've tried other setups, burning respec cards just to try and learn what the effects are for different trees.One thing that bothers me about templar versus other clases is that our spell effectiveness and power pool come from two different lines. For mages, INT does both power pool and spell power. For templar, WIS is power, INT is spell power. Not a big deal maybe, but a little bit frustrating. I think WIS for templar should also affect spell damage and heal effectiveness.But that's wishful thinking... <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />I've thought that maybe I should focos only on cleric at first, like INT and WIS, but WIS is really only good to 5 points since i have little interest in the rest of the WIS line.The bottom line is this: I would like to be able to solo my solo quests without dying and it taking forever, but I still need to be able to support my conjurer duo, and groups that ask for me.Impossible, or are there some things I can try?NOTE: I'm not interested in power leveling, I'm more interested in questing rather than leveling up and grinding. My goal is to be good support, not reach 80 in 9 days... <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Thanks.PS: I'm a returning player from years ago, and Templar is 100% new and strange to me.

Sprin

12-09-2009, 03:46 PM

The first thing you have to realize is that Templar is BY FAR the lowest DPS toon in the game, matched only closely by maybe a Defiler... That is the price you pay for having beast heal power and great group buffs... plate armor, etc etc.First Advice if you are getting interrupted alot, STR line for Steadfast... its invaluable when healing and DPS'ng... the more mobs you have on you, the more they will inturrupt, and if you cant get a spell off as a templar in lower levels, your junk... I remember even leveling on my templar, the differnce between having and not having Steadfast made a lot of fights that I would have died, very easy to winPower is always an issue when you are a caster at lower levels, as many of the spells you cast get resisted and have to be recast, but still use power... so you get 2 resists and a land, thats 3 times the power spent for the same amount of damage.... and in the Templars case, the damage is like you said, dismal.A good fix to your low DPS/high power output is the Smite Wrath line in the Templar Tree... this speeds up your casting of hostile spells and lowers their power usage... the end line of which boosts their damage amount by 25% as long as you dont cast a healing spell within 7 seconds of casting an attack.That coupled with the INT line casting speed boost.... will significantly help your dps outputBe very weary about people who will come on here and just tell you to plop your points into melee crit... what you have to realize is that lower level weapons are such junk as far as damage wise that worrying about getting 100% crit melee wont do you much good at lower levels.. as you dont have melee attacks to utilize that melee crit... so the ONLY thing it effects is your auto attack.... your points will be better well spent getting your spell crit and spell casting speed / reuse boosted.... thats not to say you will NEVER get that melee crit, but its probably the last thing you need to worry about, when you get higher and get your epic / mythical or a good hard hitting weapon.... and remember this.. if you are using Yaulp.. just stop using it...Its melee boosts but it just isnt worth it in lower levels if you are having trouble with power usage... remember it uses extra power every second to keep it up... so unless you have a way to increase your power while you are fighting, your going to run out very fast...... no power = no spell attacks and no heals... = the only thing you can attack with is auto attack...what most people talk about on these forums is at 80 with your mythical....you can use your auto attack with all the end line shadow tree boosts etc to do significant melee damage with auto attack... but thats still in between spell attacks as well... but thats for when you have plenty of AA to toss around and you have a great weapon... dont worry about trying to spec your Templar for anything melee until then... they aren't Melee classes... and only do any damage with melee at end game

drakkenshie

12-10-2009, 02:52 PM

[ Re: the price I pay for having great heals ]I'm actually finding I dont' have great heals either.The conjurer I'm usually with frequently heals her tank pet more than I do. In a group against the same content with a non or low healing tank, I could never keep them alive.Right now I'm in an instance, the easiest one, of Sundered Splitpaw in Thundering Steppes. The mobs are below con. One of them is very hard for me to kill, two of them slaughter me.EDIT: Tried again and I can solo the even-con 1 arrow down mobs without too much trouble, some interruption now and then.I understand that my kills will be slow, but it seems like I should be able to take the damage of at least a couple of 3 level even con mobs.I tried putting points into INT to speed up casting, and it's only 12.8% speed increase, barely really makes any difference.I can't figure out how to spec my Templar to even survive and heal now, let alone do good DPS.At this point I don't care about DPS, I just want to be able to keep my group alive and solo even-con.I have 35 points of AAs, and so far don't know how to spend them to make a decent Templar.We actually do pretty well as a duo (conjurer and my templar), but a lot of that is just becuase conjurers are so very powerful, and can also heal.My current experimental setup is INT 4 4 4 7, WIS 4, and the rest in blessings, plus 4 points in rebuke, which seems to help interrupt the mobs.A pair of level 28 mobs can obliterate my 31 templar with that setup.

RingleToo

12-10-2009, 09:16 PM

Some other thoughts - first, don't get frustrated. The fact is that things are tougher in the lower levels (below lvl 60 or so) simply because you just don't have the spells/AA (and much better gear) that make life a lot easier. In the higher levels Templars are very, very hard to kill. My lvl 80 Templar can solo mobs my Swashy can't - takes forever but the job gets done with power left over. Still, as Khonnan pointed out, Templar's aren't exactly dps machines. Soloing as a Templar requires a certain masochistic disposition and a great deal of patience no matter what your level. As you noted, both Wis and Int (and I’d throw in Str) are very important to the Templar, and until you have a lot of AA it’s tough trying to decide what line to go down and how far. But if you're having problems with healing, focus on that. Also, if you can get a mirror made for you (not sure at what level you can get those), you might want to do that. It will allow you to have AA builds for soloing with optimal dps and another for grouping with optimal healing. On a side note, think about eventually having 2 sets of armor/gear - one for soloing, one for grouping. Though, it's not really worth spending the plat at lower levels since you'll keep out-leveling your gear. (By the way, it is important not to forget, like I always do, to switch back and forth between your solo and group oriented builds). As for managing power and dealing with stuns/stifles, tactics are important. Reactives are what make a Templar such a powerful healer. You don’t have to cast one spell right after the other which saves on power. Direct heals, however, require a lot of power, and I try to use them only as emergency heals. Brief example when in group: I always cast the group reactive just before mob is pulled then wait, depending on how much damage is being done, to cast the single reactive followed by other reactives – or direct heal if I have to. In between healing I cast damage spells/debuffs/stun but only if I feel it’s safe not to heal and I won’t grab aggro. Soloing example: Usual sequence is I cast group reactive, stun mob, dot spell, debuff, cast spell damage, heroic opportunity, auto attack if mob is now in range, do more spell damage, and maybe the mob has hit me once. I’ve not used a lot of power, and that group heal still has a lot left to it. So, if you do get stunned it will keep you healed enough that you can survive. I can now decide if I need to cast other reactives, direct heal, or do more spell damage or maybe daze. One challenge you have when you duo is that your partner is a squishy. The conjy has to fight smart, of course, and avoid getting in melee range. (If the conjy is getting stunned/killed by spell casters, that’s a whole different issue). I mention it only because if the conjy is doing his/her job, your job will be a whole lot easier. And though you can take a licking and keep on ticking, you’re more likely to get stunned from melee then spells, so watch your aggro as best you can and be careful of getting beat on. Good gear is important, of course, and while melee might not be the Templar’s forte, a good weapon can still have a significant impact on dps. If you find that you do have to cast one heal right after the other it may be that you need better mitigation gear or you’re taking on mobs that are too powerful. And if you’re having to chain heal the conjy, tell him to get out of melee range <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" />

drakkenshie

12-11-2009, 02:20 AM

** EDIT **The tactics you suggested help a great deal, thanks. I've also started teaching my groups how to help their templar.I'd still like to see some example allocations for ideas.** EDIT **Appreciate the information.I'm not really frustrated, just that most people are telling me what to do at level 80, and that's not my question. I'm also in a duo that hits heroic content by ourselves, so I'm pushing things a bit.I see your recommendations and that's good, but what I don't know is how to enact them.Like you say focus on healing. How? Will that also allow me to survive even-con solo? Unfortunately I can't be purely group oriented, and the mirror is way out of my price range right now.With 35 points, what is an example of "focus on healing". I have no idea what that might be. Several cleric lines have healer benefits in them, but require a lot of spending on DPS and attack boosts first.What about a compromise between healing and at least surviving solo encounters?I can only complete one of them with my points so far, so that's expensive to do right now.I went down the INT line to speed up my casting, thinking it would help healing since I'm occasionally at full power with dying group mates, just because my timers are firing.Most groups aren't patient enough to let me buff first, and you are right: that helps a huge amount. I find that most of the time firing reactives doesn't absorb the damage enough so I'm into direct heals pretty quickly. Unfortunately, it can be really hard to convince people how a templar works and let me do it properly. When they do, it does work out much better.Also, just as a general question: I currently have 2255 HP and 2186 power. Is that reasonable for a lv31? My regen is 142, which I got by using all the class regen bonuses I could, two or three I believe.

12-11-2009, 05:12 AM

Hi Drakkenshield,A little bit over a year ago I started my Templar and was confronted with the same problems as you described. To be honest, I didn’t mind it at all that I wasn’t able to solo even con mobs at first. It challenges you to explore the potential of your Templar and eventually managed to down mobs much higher (con or one arrow up) while playing solo. But what made a big difference for me was most certainly the fact that I play Level-locked and thereby getting a lot of AA for my level. Combine that with the AA-slider you have now to convert your adventure experience into AA experience and you will notice the difference pretty soon.The second improvement came from gear. I have searched all level ranges and possible ways to obtained the best gear to get. However there are only a few items that are hard to obtain that are better then the MC crafted stuff. I upgraded the majority of my level 30-32 gear with level 40-42 gear and if you don’t buy any other gear in between you most certainly can afford the majority of the MC crafted gear around level 42 as well. The HC gear is available at 30/40/50 etc and MC at 32/42/52 etc. When it comes down to fighting my first priority is always to be able to keep myself at full health and survive as long as possible. This means I want a HP pool that is large enough to survive the damagespels, stuns and interrupts while in the meantime I casts my HOT and direct heals to get back to full health. To be able to this I want a reasonable amount of power as fights are always long. Any time and power left is used to do spelldamage and most of the times mobs will get killed, it justs takes a little bit longer <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Any platinum I had left went into upgrading my HOT spells and highest DPS spells to support this playstyle.After that it is just learning from the mobs you encounter and adjust your playstyle, stats, gear accordingly. When the revamp of Lavastorm was introduced my Templar was level 41 and able to solo 47 mobs with a 50% succesrate purely based on AA setup, gear and finetuning and most definitly not based on talent <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />If I for some reason are stupidly wrong in something then please point it out and explain !! I do not only post to try to help but most certainly also to learn!Tymy

Sprin

12-11-2009, 08:44 PM

As far as "group heal" points the best bang for your buck is INT line, with the casting speed, and the temporary HUGE casting speed boost at the end line... Divine Recovery... that helps out a lot when your just spamming your heals for a group and not taking damage...Now that doesn't neccessarily mean thats the best SOLO spec at first....Steadfast is a MASSIVELY powerfull tool when soloing or duoing mobs... when the mobs are hitting you repeatedly, you get inturrupted A LOT in lower levels...The difference between having steadfast and not is HUGE at lower levels... as you reach higher levels more mobs actually do knockdowns and stuns, but lower levels they mostly just inturrupt your casting...For instance, in a special instance outside of Stormhold in Antonica, on a pirate ship... cant remember the quest line... you have to clear about 8 or so groups of 3 or 4 mob encounters... I started the zone without steadfast, and got the AA point I needed while in the zone... I went from barely being able to kill one of the encounters, because of all the inturrupts, to being able to pull 3 or 4 of the Full encounters because I could cast both my DPS and heals all day long without getting inturrupted... Its pretty huge for soloing at lower levels... I'll throw that out there as my #1 thing to get for soloing multiple mobs or any mob for that matter...So I'll throw together what I would think would be good to spend your 35 AA points on for survivability and decent damage... this is how i would spend my 35 points: Cleric Tree: 1 YaulpSTR 4-4-6-8-2 (Steadfast)........25 points spent Templar Tree:(Smite Wrath Line) 3 / 3 1 / 3 Total spent 35This would allow you to put your next point into enhance smite corruption and eventually get Smite Wrath.. which increases DPS significantly...Then I would move into INT line for the spell crit and spell casting speed...As always is in the lower levels, you just CANT get all the things you need all at once, you have to build them up slowly and get things as you level up... its the name of the game...

drakkenshie

12-12-2009, 11:54 AM

Ghettoblaster,*** EDIT ***Some notes after trying the setup you suggested, and buying an AA mirror:This is *lightyears* better when running solo. Fights that killed me before... I can now handle 2-3 of them at a time, and ones that were hard I've done several mobs. Once I plant myself, it's just a slug fest which I almost always win. It's not fast, but I do have a DPS of around 60, which isn't terrible for Templar at my level.Once I get enough AA to re-populate the INT line, I might even maintain my primary as a combination DPS/healer, and then create a healer-specific setup to store on the mirror for the harder duo/group stuff.I say that because the lack of interrupts makes my healing easier to spam when things go bad, and the rest of the time I am able to use cheap reactives because I can easily off-tank and cast without being bothered now.I'll probably play with this more over time, but I'll likely keep the STR line if I can, and just grind for AAs to do the other, at least until much higher levels.*** EDIT ***Thanks a bunch. I can see how that helps solo.The only real issue I can see is it would kill off my healing until I got another 20 or so AAs to put into INT line and blessings.Right now my reactive heals and INT line is still often barely able to keep my duo alive against heroic content, and well, that's what we do all the time.You're right about it being a hard choice: I can't really get what I need specifically. The STR setup you describe looks like exactly what I need for some enforced solo instances where my duo partner is not allowed to come with me. For example, getting access to Splitpaw require me to run solo, and those mobs were killing me.It would help if I had the AA Mirror so I could have two different setups, and I might spend the plat on one.If you have any ideas on a compromise setup for survival and duo healing, that would be great. I tend to learn well by taking examples and then testing them so anything is appreciated.Aside: So many people in this game only care about the grind, rising up in level... and with me focusing on doing quests and AAs, they rapidly leave me behind. Fortunately I have a friend who sticks with me, even though she's level 60, while I run through quest lines and build up AA.

Sprin

12-19-2009, 07:25 PM

Glad I could help... I know templars need all they can get in the DPS department...The good thinga bout templars is that they are powerfull healers and have great group buffs as is... their AA lines enchance it greatly, but you should be able to heal just fine in your newly aquired "DPS" spec.... until later in the game in TSO instances, where you need all the healing you can get... even then, with good gear and spell levels, I can solo heal any zone in DPS spec... though I dont normally do that, I just let the leet deepsers do their job and I do mine...I would finish out your Smite line and then start on INT line... the boost to your dps with end line Smite line is pretty significant...later on, when you get far far far more AA points, you can start putting them towards Melee crit... so that when you have a hard hitting weapon, you can crit all your auto attacks, and put points into shadow tree to boosting yaulp etc etc etc...Dont worry about that now, you dont have enough AA points to worry about that quite yet...when you hit 80 and have lots of AA poitns to spend, check out the posts in here to get an idea of how to maximize your dps... then you can truely have a DPS spec and a Heal spec....

Thryth

12-28-2009, 06:38 PM

Hullo Drakkenshield,I found your reference over to here from the "How's soloing in 2009?" thread. This thread is much more useful for lower levels.Ghettoblaster has given the same AA approach I enjoyed when at lower levels, using Steadfest to avoid interrupts and Smites to get more damage. Don't worry over the weapon, armor, or agility. Just try to get mitigation to 50% damage prevented is enough for your armor. The Icy Keep token armor is great. I use the plate set for solo and the chain set for healing groups.I'd just add to try to get a spiked strut for your shield and spiked strap adornment for your shoulders.Cheers,Thryth

drakkenshie

01-01-2010, 12:41 AM

Time has passed and now I'm level 45.Now I find I'm frequently getting knocked down. Running duo, it's just a given I'll get attacked now and then. I'm using the frostfell lv42 ice armor which helps.I'm not sure steadfast is buying me very much any more, and I'm level capped at 50 points per tree until level 70. It's also uber expensive to experiment with new AA setups, which is really frustrating.Right now I have two specs. One of them is:INT: full line, 22 pointsSTR: full line, 22 points3 points in blessings down to just before smite ally3 points in each smite down to smite corruptionTotal is around 66 points of AA.I wanted to also do agility because I'm getting hit more than before, but I've hit the level cap already with 50 points in the tree. I don't mind respecc'ing this setup, but don't want to blow a plat to find out.My other spec, which I guess you would call healer spec is like this:INT: full line, 22 pointsAGI: 4-4-4-6same blessings line, about as much as current level allowslight points into smites 3 levels downthe rest in cures, about 4 points in each of the 4 major curesThe problem with the healer setup is interrupts with lower level mobs and some high level mobs.Higher level mobs seem to knock me down with either setup enough that it is a problem.Mobs 3-4 levels below me can kill me with either setup, which is frustrating. The main problem seems to be having very poor avoidance. In most of my groups, everyone else has 40-60% avoidance and even my AGI based setup is only 18%. The end result is that when things go bad, they can all run away. When I run, I get beaten to death.Basically, most of the other classes seem to have 'a way out', and I don't.Of course, as the group healer, I tend to not run anyway so I can keep everyone else alive, so maybe that just does not or cannot matter.I really would like to have steadfast in my healer setup because I feel like it still helps, but with the level cap in place I can't do that, and the AGI tree is helping a little with knockdown and the extra ally buff is really nice.Comments and suggestions appreciated, and even clever sarcastic remarks.

drakkenshie

01-01-2010, 02:52 PM

<cite>Thryth wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hullo Drakkenshield,I found your reference over to here from the "How's soloing in 2009?" thread. This thread is much more useful for lower levels.Ghettoblaster has given the same AA approach I enjoyed when at lower levels, using Steadfest to avoid interrupts and Smites to get more damage. Don't worry over the weapon, armor, or agility. Just try to get mitigation to 50% damage prevented is enough for your armor. The Icy Keep token armor is great. I use the plate set for solo and the chain set for healing groups.I'd just add to try to get a spiked strut for your shield and spiked strap adornment for your shoulders.Cheers,Thryth</blockquote>I made some changes and do have my mitigation up to 50% now.I find I still get killed running through mobs in Enchanted Lands and Feerrott, for example, they just stun and knockdown me to death. Unfortunately "running the mobs" is frequently a travel necessity when in-game "mass transit" is not convenient.I also find even some fights against heroic high 30s are difficult, some impossible, at level 45.I don't mind slow DPS, even though fights are easier with it. Speed after all is also a form of defense.Being a templar is very rewarding when it all goes to to hell and you keep your group alive, or even when you are the last one alive: standing your ground and taking the heat while you resurrect your group and turn the tide back in your favor.But solo I die more than I would like. Even "running the mobs" while traveling can frequently be a problem when I have no time to fight my way through and have to just run it. I frequently get stunned and knockdown'd to death, where other classes run right through. Solo fights even a few levels below me can kill me fairly easily. For example, at level 43-44, heroic lamia in Enchanted Lands killed me and I saw a conjurer and a mystic kill them with little trouble. The main difference seemed to be that both of those guys had 40-60% avoidance, and were knocked down and interrupted far less than I was. I think if I could find out how to avoid that, I'd actually do better than they do.I've recently pushed my resistances higher, and gotten mitigation to 50%. I created a new AA setup with the INT and AGI lines to see how well that works. That's my primary healer, and in the templar tree it's all blessings and cures. I'm curious about how well an AGI/STR setup would work, but experimenting with AAs is uber expensive. I wish you could buy more of the respec cards so it was at least easier and less costly to experiment. I like playing with different setups to see how they work. Of course, the INT line is awfully nice for a templar, so maybe it's not worth the effort, but I'd like to see it anyway.

Thryth

01-03-2010, 12:12 PM

I think just settle more to a travel and play style where you're not attacked by 10-12 monsters at the same time.From traditional D&D style characters, players sometimes look for "hybrid" character configurations where they can have the best of two very different classes, hoping that although leveling will be slower splitting experience between dual classes, that later they will be able to do more solo or with a smaller group.Originally I thought a cleric with plate would have pretty good defense, expecting they would hold their own while healing and being hit. That was probably true at lower levels. As things get more specialized at higher levels, the rift between cleric defense compared to scouts and fighters seems to be getting bigger.So, I'm looking more at balancing other strategies I wouldn't consider before. For example, I have a set of chain armor from the Frostfell tokens because the plate armor had no healing bonus. I tried this in a few hard groups, and the chain armor works much better than the plate. That just seems to be the way it is sometimes -- so much variety in classes; but, not enough content to fit a cleric's needs just right all the time. Just have to be flexible and have fun with what you get.