Dirge Mythical Discussion [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

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Ashr

12-07-2009, 04:22 PM

I spoke with Olihin in reference to the Dirge Mythical being pretty pointless in PvP now, and he agrees that something should be added to it. He charged me with starting a discussion on how to improve in the mythical. First of all, spell/range/melee crit is rather useless at end game PvP due to critical mitigation. So I've left +crit off of this chart. The Summary column shows the total amount of useful features on the Mythical. <table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" width="1137"><tbody><tr><td width="64" valign="bottom"></td> <td width="151" valign="bottom">BLUE</td> <td width="297" valign="bottom">CONST1</td> <td width="360" valign="bottom">CONST2</td> <td width="201" valign="bottom">PROC</td> <td width="64" valign="bottom">Summary</td></tr> <tr><td width="64" valign="bottom">Dirge</td> <td width="151" valign="bottom"></td> <td width="297" valign="bottom">RW Chimes (No Writ Updates in Raids, useless)</td> <td width="360" valign="bottom">10% CA Damage (Group, Until buff is stripped)</td> <td width="201" valign="bottom"></td> <td width="64" valign="bottom">1</td></tr> <tr><td width="64" valign="bottom">Troubador</td> <td width="151" valign="bottom"></td> <td width="297" valign="bottom">RW PoM (No Writ Updates in Raids, useless)</td> <td width="360" valign="bottom">10% Spell Damage (Group, Until buff is stripped)</td> <td width="201" valign="bottom">Damage Proc</td> <td width="64" valign="bottom">2</td></tr> <tr><td width="64" valign="bottom">Assasssin</td> <td width="151" valign="bottom">8 Double Attack</td> <td width="297" valign="bottom">30% Bigger Stealthed Cas</td> <td width="360" valign="bottom">15% Flurry</td> <td width="201" valign="bottom">Damage Croc</td> <td width="64" valign="bottom">4</td></tr> <tr><td width="64" valign="bottom">Ranger</td> <td width="151" valign="bottom">8 Ranged Double Attack</td> <td width="297" valign="bottom">Extra Damage based on Range</td> <td width="360" valign="bottom">10% CA Damage</td> <td width="201" valign="bottom">Damage and CA Damage Proc</td> <td width="64" valign="bottom">4</td></tr> <tr><td width="64" valign="bottom">Brigand</td> <td width="151" valign="bottom">9 Double Attack</td> <td width="297" valign="bottom">30% Bigger Rear Cas</td> <td width="360" valign="bottom">10% Better Debuffs</td> <td width="201" valign="bottom">Double Attack and Damage Proc</td> <td width="64" valign="bottom">4</td></tr> <tr><td width="64" valign="bottom">Swash</td> <td width="151" valign="bottom">8 Double Attack</td> <td width="297" valign="bottom">Reduced Spell Damage on TS</td> <td width="360" valign="bottom">10% CA Damage</td> <td width="201" valign="bottom">Damage Proc</td> <td width="64" valign="bottom">4</td></tr></tbody></table> If anything this chart shows that both bard's mythical weapons need a boost. I agree that Intrepid strike was severely over powered, but the problem with it was that the hits were ignoring mitigation completely. I think if that could be fixed then it could be restored. Otherwise the PvP side of intrepid strike needs to have a different effect, at least a damage proc to bring it in line with the troub mythical. So I'm opening this up to my fellow dirges, what are your suggestions for improving the dirge mythical in pvp to bring it in line with the other mythicals.

Wytie

12-07-2009, 04:43 PM

Dude you cant just jump out here like that.... You gona ease it in 1st. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Cigam

12-07-2009, 04:53 PM

Yeah that was like way too fast little dirge man. Act like it is a relationship and ease in there.

Ashr

12-07-2009, 04:59 PM

[Removed for Content], don't derail my thread yo!

Orthureon

12-07-2009, 05:10 PM

I say +20% base CA and Spell damage. This way you have to actually cast stuff to kill people. Procs are getting out of hand. I can autoattack someone and watch like 5 different procs nearly kill them.

Wytie

12-07-2009, 05:18 PM

Honestly at this point, I dont see something drastic really being changed about anyones mythical. Exp not something that would impact pve.Seems to me something like the ability to avoid crit mit or something like that would really help the dirge myth in pvp. Maybe if when the dirge myth proc in pvp it would allow the dirge to bypass crit mit of there target for its duration.Its differnt and not over the top, and it would give them a bit of a boost in pvp, without giving them a one shot ability like before.

Paikis

12-07-2009, 05:52 PM

15 melee crit and inflicts 80 disease damage! (seriously, this is what Troubs get. And I'm still bitter about the fact that the only useful effect on my mythical is the +10% base damage)As for USEFUL effects, how about instead of raid-wide PotM/CoB we get a large (100+) boost to the damage for those skills while in PvP combat. Or you could just remove the raid-wide part (which it looks like we'll be getting anyway next xpac) and add extra damage in PvE as well.Oh and welcome back Synter, Aion not going well?

PeaSy1

12-07-2009, 06:36 PM

Pretty simple actually keep the proc but make it NOT ignore mit...... ez fix

Wytie

12-07-2009, 06:46 PM

<cite>Denee@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Pretty simple actually keep the proc but make it NOT ignore mit...... ez fix</blockquote>Except for if it had been easy, it would have already been done. Obviously there is a bit more of a coding issue that we cant see that prevented that, which is why the proc was unseen as broken in the 1st place.

Notsovilepriest

12-08-2009, 06:30 AM

Synter is my hero! <3 From Notso!

Killque

12-08-2009, 12:23 PM

Thoughts on any of the following:<ul><li>Add a proc to increase trigger % of Percusion of Stone (procs 2.3 times per min increases trigger chance to 50% for 10 seconds)</li><li>Proc Immunity to Root/Snare/Stun/Stifle/Fear/Mez/Taunt (I like this one, obviously)</li><li>Proc all Combat arts and spells are encounter based for a short duration (Green background)</li><li>Proc a Ward with fear component</li><li>Proc a Reflect (I like this one a lot)</li><li>Proc a Stifle (one of the few abilities we do NOT have)</li><li>Proc Group Taunt Immunity</li></ul>

Ashr

12-08-2009, 02:21 PM

<cite>Paikis wrote:</cite><blockquote>15 melee crit and inflicts 80 disease damage! (seriously, this is what Troubs get. And I'm still bitter about the fact that the only useful effect on my mythical is the +10% base damage)As for USEFUL effects, how about instead of raid-wide PotM/CoB we get a large (100+) boost to the damage for those skills while in PvP combat. Or you could just remove the raid-wide part (which it looks like we'll be getting anyway next xpac) and add extra damage in PvE as well.Oh and welcome back Synter, Aion not going well?</blockquote>Heh, I never tried Aion. I actually have been out of gaming for the past year - having a child kind of removes all your time lol.

Ashr

12-08-2009, 02:21 PM

<cite>Ssofa@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Synter is my hero! <3 From Notso!</blockquote>I miss you too notso <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Ashr

12-08-2009, 02:27 PM

In my opinion of these suggestions obviously the best would be to have Intrepid Strike properly take into account physical mitigation, and actually this solution probably requires less coding than having Intrepid Strike ignore critical mitigation. Ignoring critical mitigation is the second best suggestion.In keeping with the spirit of the proc, it should increase our damage in some manner, several suggestions here are actually really good, keep em coming <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Zexybeast

12-08-2009, 04:57 PM

I spy a Synter! More buffs for dirges.

vladstone

12-08-2009, 05:19 PM

Good to see the Dirge Myth may get a fix. I actually parked my dirge for the most part when they last changed our Mythical.I am greatly in favor of any boost for PVP.

Paikis

12-09-2009, 12:23 AM

<cite>Syntax@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Heh, I never tried Aion. I actually have been out of gaming for the past year - having a child kind of removes all your time lol.</blockquote>That's right, it was practically everyone else that went to Aion. Hope your kid is doing well.Personally I'd prefer to have them fix the old proc and perhaps make it apply only to your next attack (or 2) instead of lasting for 12 seconds.

Tormax

12-09-2009, 02:24 PM

how about some runspeed, bards should run fast, yet they dont really have any advantage over any other classes in this game. give them a real incombat runspeed boost so we can start playing bards the way they were meant to be played, or give the myth a aoe proc, for a class that plays songs, and was king of the aoe in EQ1 bards in EQ2 are just pathetic.

Koc

12-15-2009, 11:53 AM

Swash myth effect for ts is pretty useless in pvp most times as its cured pretty much instantly anyway...

Killque

12-15-2009, 12:02 PM

<cite>Kocoa@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Swash myth effect for ts is pretty useless in pvp most times as its cured pretty much instantly anyway...</blockquote>Cured or not, at least you have one. We have nothing at this point so nothing to even cure. Plus, this is not the place to be discussing the Swashbuckler Myth.I am also in favor of them fixing the original proc. My suggestions would of course be secondary.

Duotang

12-15-2009, 12:14 PM

Prior to Intrepid Strike, every Dirge knows that playing a Dirge, especially solo pvp, was extremely difficult.Enter Intrepid Strike. Finally, some nice fluff for the forgotten Dirge and it gets nerfed immediately. Yet, here we are, over a year later watching Coercers, Shadowknights, Wardens, etc. carry on their merry way unobstructed with their overpowered bs.Put Intrepid Strike back on the Dirge mythical as it was initially intended. Or at least until you bring all classes in line with one another.

TheVekk

12-15-2009, 03:47 PM

im not trying to shoot down ur thread but do dirges realy need this? yes u cant go around 4 shotting people anymore but u still hit pretty hard. i mean it make take some getting ust to not going up to osmeone and just watching them die in 2seconds but i realy dont think they need increased dmg, they are a utillity class not a dps that is that way they are suppost to be. this is just my opinion on this.

Notsovilepriest

12-15-2009, 06:04 PM

Ashr

12-15-2009, 06:39 PM

Siphar

12-15-2009, 08:45 PM

Wow, you are rallying to get the dirge myth upgraded specifically for pvp? on a PvE game?Have you seen some of the other myths? like the illy/coercer myths that are much worse in PvP compared to the dirge myth. At least you can hit someone with your myth... the enchanter's myth isn't even worth fire wood in PvP..I hope if you get a fix, a fix is also in the works for other classes who get garbage for pvp..

Neskonlith

12-15-2009, 09:41 PM

<cite>Siphar wrote:</cite><blockquote>I hope if you get a fix, a fix is also in the works for other classes who get garbage for pvp..</blockquote>A random, subjective comment without some form of evidence is easy for SOE to ignore. When such a comment is posted in an unrelated class/archetype discussion, it's highly improbable that you will get the attention you are looking for.Maybe the proactive thing you could do to get a better SOE response would be to create a new discussion topic specifically for your class and archetype in a format similar to this thread, where you compare all of your archetype myth effects and demonstrate why you believe a particular class myth is lacking.

Magius789

12-15-2009, 10:30 PM

<cite>Killque wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kocoa@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Swash myth effect for ts is pretty useless in pvp most times as its cured pretty much instantly anyway...</blockquote>Cured or not, at least you have one. We have nothing at this point so nothing to even cure. Plus, this is not the place to be discussing the Swashbuckler Myth.I am also in favor of them fixing the original proc. My suggestions would of course be secondary.</blockquote>A lot of classess have myths that don't really do anything. I hear the Necro myth is pretty useless and my ranger myth doesn't have anything cool on it. It has a proc that gives me a 30% chance to not use ammo on my next attack! Woohoo! And I could argue the two PvP bows are actually better for a ranger. The Marksman has a root proc on it which should be on the ranger myth and the new PvP bow they just came out with hits just as hard as the ranger myth. Its auto attack dmg is 100 less but it comes with a +10 dps bonus built in so the difference in dmg is negated. So bascially any scout or tank class can get a bow that hits just as hard as my classes mythical weapon.All that being said I think removing things in general is a very lazy response. They removed focus aim from PvP, on launch the ranger myth let us use our CA's at point blank range but that was remove within a day of launch. I'm sure other classess have had stuff removed. I do not have a dirge so the suggestions I can make are limited. I do think the original proc was to extreme, especially for a class that isn't meant to be high dps, but I think a proc that enhanced your next attack or two would work. Bards are a buff class but I think a mythical weapon should benefit the classess player and not everyone else so adding something that buffs even more to me seems sort of blah. Maybe a dmg shield to help the dirge last longer? I don't know...but I bet you could get some creative stuff suggested and see what Ohilin does.

Notsovilepriest

12-15-2009, 10:45 PM

<cite>Magius789 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Killque wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kocoa@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Swash myth effect for ts is pretty useless in pvp most times as its cured pretty much instantly anyway...</blockquote>Cured or not, at least you have one. We have nothing at this point so nothing to even cure. Plus, this is not the place to be discussing the Swashbuckler Myth.I am also in favor of them fixing the original proc. My suggestions would of course be secondary.</blockquote>A lot of classess have myths that don't really do anything. I hear the Necro myth is pretty useless and my ranger myth doesn't have anything cool on it. It has a proc that gives me a 30% chance to not use ammo on my next attack! Woohoo! And I could argue the two PvP bows are actually better for a ranger. The Marksman has a root proc on it which should be on the ranger myth and the new PvP bow they just came out with hits just as hard as the ranger myth. Its auto attack dmg is 100 less but it comes with a +10 dps bonus built in so the difference in dmg is negated. So bascially any scout or tank class can get a bow that hits just as hard as my classes mythical weapon.All that being said I think removing things in general is a very lazy response. They removed focus aim from PvP, on launch the ranger myth let us use our CA's at point blank range but that was remove within a day of launch. I'm sure other classess have had stuff removed. I do not have a dirge so the suggestions I can make are limited. I do think the original proc was to extreme, especially for a class that isn't meant to be high dps, but I think a proc that enhanced your next attack or two would work. Bards are a buff class but I think a mythical weapon should benefit the classess player and not everyone else so adding something that buffs even more to me seems sort of blah. Maybe a dmg shield to help the dirge last longer? I don't know...but I bet you could get some creative stuff suggested and see what Ohilin does.</blockquote>Ranger Myth has no minimum range and hits a lot harder than marksman especially close by.

Dorsan

12-15-2009, 11:54 PM

<cite>Magius789 wrote:</cite><blockquote>A lot of classess have myths that don't really do anything. I hear the Necro myth is pretty useless...</blockquote>Whoever told you that has no idea how to play a necro in PvP.

Magius789

12-16-2009, 12:19 AM

<cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Magius789 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Killque wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kocoa@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Swash myth effect for ts is pretty useless in pvp most times as its cured pretty much instantly anyway...</blockquote>Cured or not, at least you have one. We have nothing at this point so nothing to even cure. Plus, this is not the place to be discussing the Swashbuckler Myth.I am also in favor of them fixing the original proc. My suggestions would of course be secondary.</blockquote>A lot of classess have myths that don't really do anything. I hear the Necro myth is pretty useless and my ranger myth doesn't have anything cool on it. It has a proc that gives me a 30% chance to not use ammo on my next attack! Woohoo! And I could argue the two PvP bows are actually better for a ranger. The Marksman has a root proc on it which should be on the ranger myth and the new PvP bow they just came out with hits just as hard as the ranger myth. Its auto attack dmg is 100 less but it comes with a +10 dps bonus built in so the difference in dmg is negated. So bascially any scout or tank class can get a bow that hits just as hard as my classes mythical weapon.All that being said I think removing things in general is a very lazy response. They removed focus aim from PvP, on launch the ranger myth let us use our CA's at point blank range but that was remove within a day of launch. I'm sure other classess have had stuff removed. I do not have a dirge so the suggestions I can make are limited. I do think the original proc was to extreme, especially for a class that isn't meant to be high dps, but I think a proc that enhanced your next attack or two would work. Bards are a buff class but I think a mythical weapon should benefit the classess player and not everyone else so adding something that buffs even more to me seems sort of blah. Maybe a dmg shield to help the dirge last longer? I don't know...but I bet you could get some creative stuff suggested and see what Ohilin does.</blockquote>Ranger Myth has no minimum range and hits a lot harder than marksman especially close by.</blockquote>I agree that the myth hits harder than the marksman, what makes the marksman so nice is the root proc on it. I was more refering to the new PvP bow that just came out when I talked about how strong it was compared to the ranger bow.Obviously I realize the ranger myth has no min. range but if it gets to the point the ranger is having to rely on that feature of the myth there is a very good chance the ranger is dead anyway. It does give us a dmg boost the closer we are to the target but once again that isn't very useful for the ranger in PvP since we want to be as far from the target as possibe.

Notsovilepriest

12-16-2009, 12:45 AM

Or has enough DPS to destroy someone before they can kill them even at close range, Like a Pudaan

Magius789

12-16-2009, 01:00 AM

When talking about making wide ranging changes to a class or item you can't look at people like Pud. There will always be people that are so amazingly geared they can do pretty much anything.

TheVekk

12-16-2009, 11:46 AM

<cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>TheVekk wrote:</cite><blockquote>im not trying to shoot down ur thread but do dirges realy need this? yes u cant go around 4 shotting people anymore but u still hit pretty hard. i mean it make take some getting ust to not going up to osmeone and just watching them die in 2seconds but i realy dont think they need increased dmg, they are a utillity class not a dps that is that way they are suppost to be. this is just my opinion on this.</blockquote>Lets destroy the one proc that could actually kill a city warden anymore with half a clue! Just sayin you shouldn't be calling for nerfs because of your class TBH!</blockquote>i didnt ask for it to get nerfed and u are mentaly challanged if u didnt think that was op i never complained on the forums about it EVER.

TheVekk

12-16-2009, 11:47 AM

<cite>Ashrim wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>TheVekk wrote:</cite><blockquote>im not trying to shoot down ur thread but do dirges realy need this? yes u cant go around 4 shotting people anymore but u still hit pretty hard. i mean it make take some getting ust to not going up to osmeone and just watching them die in 2seconds but i realy dont think they need increased dmg, they are a utillity class not a dps that is that way they are suppost to be. this is just my opinion on this.</blockquote>It is not about Dirges being a utility class, its about all other scouts getting more benefit from their mythical than dirges. Its not about class envy, its not about being overpowered, its about being balanced. You could go as far as saying the only nice thing on the dirge mythical is the damage rating, because the 10% combat art bonus is easily dispelled.</blockquote>u missed my point they are a utility class meaning they are suppost to buff teh grp not themselfs

Notsovilepriest

12-16-2009, 03:33 PM

I just laugh because you want to keep a class that was once able to kill you at bay by not allowing them do DPS. I also find it hilarious you included your title in your sig, Guess anyone can get titles when you double death save exploit for it!

Magius789

12-16-2009, 05:24 PM

Notso come on now. I knew you on Venekor and I know you have common sense. We are talking about a dirge, they aren't suppose to be a high dps class. A bards greatest strength is to make the people around them that much stronger. I think it says volumes about this ability and how strong it was when are talking about it being the beginning and the end of this class. So without this ability the dirge doesn't have much DPS but with this ability they have crazy good dps. That says all anyone would need to now about how strong that ability is.

TheVekk

12-16-2009, 05:34 PM

<cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>I just laugh because you want to keep a class that was once able to kill you at bay by not allowing them do DPS. I also find it hilarious you included your title in your sig, Guess anyone can get titles when you double death save exploit for it!</blockquote>so what if i inculded my title in my sig is that a problem? i would have put it there even if i wasnt a master for one i stay in the overseer range more then master FYI. but u wouldnt know that beccuse u dont even pvp anymore all u do in complain on the forums. plus there was only ONE dirge on venekor that could beat me lol.... and he was in va way back when.and i still Stand by my point a Utility class should not be able to kill someone faster then a primary dps should. that is the way the game is designed if u dont like it go somewhere else.one other thing are u talking about the death save bug that got fixed months ago ? lollol i should make a sig of all the time ive T-baged ur face in pvp tbh, im sure Darkenn has some to <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />

TheVekk

12-16-2009, 05:42 PM

<cite>Magius789 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Notso come on now. I knew you on Venekor and I know you have common sense. We are talking about a dirge, they aren't suppose to be a high dps class. A bards greatest strength is to make the people around them that much stronger. I think it says volumes about this ability and how strong it was when are talking about it being the beginning and the end of this class. So without this ability the dirge doesn't have much DPS but with this ability they have crazy good dps. That says all anyone would need to now about how strong that ability is.</blockquote> /agree

Ashr

12-16-2009, 05:47 PM

I agree that the dirge is a group buffing class before a DPS class, that doesn't change the fact that our mythical is the weakest of all scout mythicals, and deserves some form of a boost in PvP.I'm not asking for the original proc back, I'm asking for suggestions on how to improve it, there is a bit of difference there <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Notsovilepriest

12-16-2009, 07:40 PM

<cite>TheVekk wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>I just laugh because you want to keep a class that was once able to kill you at bay by not allowing them do DPS. I also find it hilarious you included your title in your sig, Guess anyone can get titles when you double death save exploit for it!</blockquote>so what if i inculded my title in my sig is that a problem? i would have put it there even if i wasnt a master for one i stay in the overseer range more then master FYI. but u wouldnt know that beccuse u dont even pvp anymore all u do in complain on the forums. plus there was only ONE dirge on venekor that could beat me lol.... and he was in va way back when.and i still Stand by my point a Utility class should not be able to kill someone faster then a primary dps should. that is the way the game is designed if u dont like it go somewhere else.one other thing are u talking about the death save bug that got fixed months ago ? lollol i should make a sig of all the time ive T-baged ur face in pvp tbh, im sure Darkenn has some to <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>I'm curious who that dirge was? You don't complain about illy and coercer DPS but you want to keep a dirge down because of it being a utility class? I'm not saying that a dirge needs that exact proc how it was, but a proc or something to increase DPS.You have rarely if ever killed me or any of my toons without 2x the number of people we had, Just sayingFor me not PvPing also, I haven't been playing much at all the past week or 2 at all since its finals week this week. So GG!

TheVekk

12-16-2009, 09:36 PM

<cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>TheVekk wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>I just laugh because you want to keep a class that was once able to kill you at bay by not allowing them do DPS. I also find it hilarious you included your title in your sig, Guess anyone can get titles when you double death save exploit for it!</blockquote>so what if i inculded my title in my sig is that a problem? i would have put it there even if i wasnt a master for one i stay in the overseer range more then master FYI. but u wouldnt know that beccuse u dont even pvp anymore all u do in complain on the forums. plus there was only ONE dirge on venekor that could beat me lol.... and he was in va way back when.and i still Stand by my point a Utility class should not be able to kill someone faster then a primary dps should. that is the way the game is designed if u dont like it go somewhere else.one other thing are u talking about the death save bug that got fixed months ago ? lollol i should make a sig of all the time ive T-baged ur face in pvp tbh, im sure Darkenn has some to <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>I'm curious who that dirge was? You don't complain about illy and coercer DPS but you want to keep a dirge down because of it being a utility class? I'm not saying that a dirge needs that exact proc how it was, but a proc or something to increase DPS.You have rarely if ever killed me or any of my toons without 2x the number of people we had, Just sayingFor me not PvPing also, I haven't been playing much at all the past week or 2 at all since its finals week this week. So GG!</blockquote>well for one last i checked this thread was about "Driges" not other class. u have changed this thread into a [Removed for Content] match becuse u disagree with someone GJ <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" /> kinda reminds me of demron personaly, and i could say the same for u trying to kill me with anything sort of a full grp backing you.

Notsovilepriest

12-16-2009, 09:46 PM

You ignored my question, Who was the dirge?

TheVekk

12-16-2009, 10:13 PM

<cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>You ignored my question, Who was the dirge?</blockquote>i dont rember his full name began with an H i think hakuo or something like that, that was also back before i had raid gear lol or anything close to it. lol and so what if he was able to kill me its hard to surive that kinda of dmg.back when it was broken i uset ot run around with a dirge named orfeo we would kill hole grps with easy.

Killque

12-16-2009, 11:14 PM

A Dirge killing whole groups pre mythical nerf? Dude, what planet are you from? It is completely untrue, unintellegent and in experienced comments like these that landed us with no mythical proc in pvp to begin with.Someone said it best when they said Wardens, SKs, Pallys, Coercers etc are all going about their daily OP lives while the Dirge of all things gets smacked down.I am not nearly as upset about being nerfed as I am about people who make statements like the one above and the other classes that remain completely unkillable under normal circumstances update after update.

Neskonlith

12-16-2009, 11:33 PM

<cite>TheVekk wrote:</cite><blockquote>im not trying to shoot down ur thread but do dirges realy need this? yes u cant go around 4 shotting people anymore but u still hit pretty hard. i mean it make take some getting ust to not going up to osmeone and just watching them die in 2seconds but i realy dont think they need increased dmg, they are a utillity class not a dps that is that way they are suppost to be. this is just my opinion on this.</blockquote><cite>TheVekk wrote:</cite><blockquote>u missed my point they are a utility class meaning they are suppost to buff teh grp not themselfs</blockquote><img src="http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb310/Bitter_Coffee/screenies/Allaboardthefailtrain.jpg" />To follow your logic, Vekk, we can also apply your opinion to any non-dps class - like healers! For fun, let us substitute that archetype to see how your thoughts play out:<cite>TheVekk wrote:</cite><blockquote>im not trying to shoot down ur thread but do dirges healers realy need this? yes u cant go around out-healing 4 shotting people and anymore but u still hit pretty hard. i mean it make take some getting ust to not going up to osmeone and just watching them die in 2seconds but i realy dont think they need increased dmg, they are a utillity healing class not a dps that is that way they are suppost to be. this is just my opinion on this.</blockquote><cite>TheVekk wrote:</cite><blockquote>u missed my point they are a utility healing class meaning they are suppost to buff heal teh grp not themselfs</blockquote>Sounds like an amusing recipe to revive the KoS EverScout glory days! Once we nerf utility DPS, we nerf healers and tanks until all that's left untouched are the dedicated DPS - here I am thinking that the solo-dps KoS PvP was deader than Elvis, but maybe through selective nerfing of all the other classes in the game, we can eventually divide by zero and resurrect the King after all! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" />

Zexybeast

12-17-2009, 02:13 AM

Ashr

12-17-2009, 12:18 PM

Getting this thread back on topic...Dirges, which of these effects would you most like to see Intrepid Strike have in PvP:1) Original proc, but have it take mitigation into effect.2) Original proc, but have it only affect the next 1 or 2 attacks.3) Proc causes all of your melee attacks to ignore crit mit.4) Proc grants x% Flurry for y seconds.5) Proc increases melee attack range for CA's and Auto Attack.6) Proc causes all of your group mates melee attacks to ignore crit mit (you said we were utility right Vekk? <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> )7) Add your own

Paikis

12-17-2009, 01:04 PM

<cite>Ashrim wrote:</cite><blockquote>Getting this thread back on topic...Dirges, which of these effects would you most like to see Intrepid Strike have in PvP:1) Original proc, but have it take mitigation into effect. Would be my choice2) Original proc, but have it only affect the next 1 or 2 attacks. Would be my second choice.3) Proc causes all of your melee attacks to ignore crit mit. Overpowered, no.4) Proc grants x% Flurry for y seconds. I'd prefer proc makes next 1 attack flurry5) Proc increases melee attack range for CA's and Auto Attack. Indifferent, nice bonus but not that nice.6) Proc causes all of your group mates melee attacks to ignore crit mit (you said we were utility right Vekk? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /> )LOL, no.7) Add your own</blockquote>

Ashr

12-17-2009, 02:20 PM

<cite>Paikis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ashrim wrote:</cite><blockquote>Getting this thread back on topic...Dirges, which of these effects would you most like to see Intrepid Strike have in PvP:1) Original proc, but have it take mitigation into effect. Would be my choice2) Original proc, but have it only affect the next 1 or 2 attacks. Would be my second choice.3) Proc causes all of your melee attacks to ignore crit mit. Overpowered, no.4) Proc grants x% Flurry for y seconds. I'd prefer proc makes next 1 attack flurry5) Proc increases melee attack range for CA's and Auto Attack. Indifferent, nice bonus but not that nice.6) Proc causes all of your group mates melee attacks to ignore crit mit (you said we were utility right Vekk? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /> )LOL, no.7) Add your own</blockquote></blockquote>6 is my fav <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

TheVekk

12-17-2009, 02:27 PM

<cite>Neskonlith wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>TheVekk wrote:</cite><blockquote>im not trying to shoot down ur thread but do dirges realy need this? yes u cant go around 4 shotting people anymore but u still hit pretty hard. i mean it make take some getting ust to not going up to osmeone and just watching them die in 2seconds but i realy dont think they need increased dmg, they are a utillity class not a dps that is that way they are suppost to be. this is just my opinion on this.</blockquote><cite>TheVekk wrote:</cite><blockquote>u missed my point they are a utility class meaning they are suppost to buff teh grp not themselfs</blockquote><img src="http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb310/Bitter_Coffee/screenies/Allaboardthefailtrain.jpg" />To follow your logic, Vekk, we can also apply your opinion to any non-dps class - like healers! For fun, let us substitute that archetype to see how your thoughts play out:<cite>TheVekk wrote:</cite><blockquote>im not trying to shoot down ur thread but do dirges healers realy need this? yes u cant go around out-healing 4 shotting people and anymore but u still hit pretty hard. i mean it make take some getting ust to not going up to osmeone and just watching them die in 2seconds but i realy dont think they need increased dmg, they are a utillity healing class not a dps that is that way they are suppost to be. this is just my opinion on this.</blockquote><cite>TheVekk wrote:</cite><blockquote>u missed my point they are a utility healing class meaning they are suppost to buff heal teh grp not themselfs</blockquote>Sounds like an amusing recipe to revive the KoS EverScout glory days! Once we nerf utility DPS, we nerf healers and tanks until all that's left untouched are the dedicated DPS - here I am thinking that the solo-dps KoS PvP was deader than Elvis, but maybe through selective nerfing of all the other classes in the game, we can eventually divide by zero and resurrect the King after all! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>well for one if u have ever played with me or against me u would have noticed all i do is HEAL me or my grp which is why when people duel me it takes me a long time to kill them becuse i spec to HEAL not to DPS that ISNT MY JOB. plus again last time i check this thread was for "Dirges" not healers lol.And again i have never complained on any forums saying the dirge myth needed to be nerfed or anything along those lines and the healer switch u did there doesnt make alot of sense btw

TheVekk

12-17-2009, 02:31 PM

<cite>Ashrim wrote:</cite><blockquote>Getting this thread back on topic...Dirges, which of these effects would you most like to see Intrepid Strike have in PvP:1) Original proc, but have it take mitigation into effect. Agree2) Original proc, but have it only affect the next 1 or 2 attacks. i could see it but i think soe is to lazy to make that work3) Proc causes all of your melee attacks to ignore crit mit. i could see that to but again i think soe is to lazy4) Proc grants x% Flurry for y seconds. not sure on this one tbh5) Proc increases melee attack range for CA's and Auto Attack. agree6) Proc causes all of your group mates melee attacks to ignore crit mit (you said we were utility right Vekk? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /> ) supposrt class yes but ignoreing mit in pvp is just wrong, mite as well just got naked agaisnt someone if u can ignore mit then7) Add your own</blockquote>if soe had jsut done the smart thing and made it not ignore mit it would have been fine

BubbaCajunOG

12-20-2009, 03:31 PM

Alright. So ive read some the discussion so far and have heard a few ideas but before i get to them i want to point out that this is a pvp buff we are talking about, therefore the buff should reflect what would be effective and useful in pvp to matches that have become incredibly hard since the myth proc nerf.Let's try to tackle this from the perspective of our class and not on what things would be nifty for more dps like our myth proc was. Our myth proc was OP there is no discussion about it and it should of never existed in the first place(let it die). Being a Utility class our myth proc in pvp should represent our class. On this issue i have several ideas.1. On any combat attack 2.0 per minute"Dispells 90 levels of beneficial divine effects on target." instead of focusing on a self buff why not make it an offensive debuff? The reason for this is for utility and a serious match up problem. Ever since the nerf Crusader vs Dirge or Dirge vs Healer have had SERIOUS problems. Instead of trying to catch our dps back up to mages and scouts, make us a utility against healers and crusaders.2. On any Successful attack 2.3 per minute. 15second 5% base dmg to group ca/spell (not melle) and 5% uncontested Riposte chance for group.3. On melle hit 1.9 per minute. 20second 100% chance to reflect any racial, npc or professional spell. 2 triggers4. On melle hit 2.1 per minute. 12 seconds 50% strike through 10% dodge.

Paikis

12-20-2009, 08:57 PM

Why not just ask for them to make your myth a vorpal weapon instead?

BubbaCajunOG

12-20-2009, 09:42 PM

I think the suggestions i made are very little compared to other peoples myths. 15% flurry on assasins, Bruisers 100% dodge for 10seconds and 60% base heal clicky, Wardens unlimited powers.TBH dispelling 90 levels of divine effects would be best.

Paikis

12-20-2009, 11:14 PM

<cite>BubbaCajunOG wrote:</cite><blockquote>TBH dispelling 90 levels of divine effects would be best.</blockquote>TBH we have enough dispels. Having ANOTHER one that procs just from attacking is not needed.Personally i think they just need to make it take mitigation into account and we're golden. Stop asking for another stupid OP effect to replace the one you had.

TheVekk

12-21-2009, 01:33 PM

<cite>BubbaCajunOG wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think the suggestions i made are very little compared to other peoples myths. 15% flurry on assasins, Bruisers 100% dodge for 10seconds and 60% base heal clicky, Wardens unlimited powers.TBH dispelling 90 levels of divine effects would be best.</blockquote>the assassin is a primary dps that is why they have that proc lol, the brusier is a tank, the clicky? and wardens never running out of power, well u dont even need the myth to do that so ya......just fix the proc = fixing the problem

Paikis

12-22-2009, 01:22 AM

<cite>TheVekk wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>BubbaCajunOG wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think the suggestions i made are very little compared to other peoples myths. 15% flurry on assasins, Bruisers 100% dodge for 10seconds and 60% base heal clicky, Wardens unlimited powers.TBH dispelling 90 levels of divine effects would be best.</blockquote>the assassin is a primary dps that is why they have that proc lol, the brusier is a tank, the clicky? and wardens never running out of power, well u dont even need the myth to do that so ya......just fix the proc = fixing the problem</blockquote>Well as long as he's going to compare mythicals, maybe we should just give him what the Troubadors get.How would you like a proc that does 50-60 damage and gives you 15 melee crit for 12 seconds? Atleast your auto-attack can benefit from the crit, spells dont.

Stuckx

12-24-2009, 05:28 AM

<cite>Paikis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>TheVekk wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>BubbaCajunOG wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think the suggestions i made are very little compared to other peoples myths. 15% flurry on assasins, Bruisers 100% dodge for 10seconds and 60% base heal clicky, Wardens unlimited powers.TBH dispelling 90 levels of divine effects would be best.</blockquote>the assassin is a primary dps that is why they have that proc lol, the brusier is a tank, the clicky? and wardens never running out of power, well u dont even need the myth to do that so ya......just fix the proc = fixing the problem</blockquote>Well as long as he's going to compare mythicals, maybe we should just give him what the Troubadors get.How would you like a proc that does 50-60 damage and gives you 15 melee crit for 12 seconds? Atleast your auto-attack can benefit from the crit, spells dont.</blockquote>Yea...troub myth sucks. If they actually take the time to fix the dirge myth,they should throw troubs a bone and give us something useful too.

BubbaCajunOG

12-24-2009, 02:10 PM

Alright first of all, we have no dispells other than pumice stone, i dont know what crack your smoking that dirges have any dispell moves, they dont. Second of all, troubys go bring that QQ to another thread. Third opinions like "they should just fix it to take into account mit" are dumb because thats the whole reason for the change is because THEY CANT, its an issue with the coding and programming.Finally, even with full crit mit gear on i was still able to autoattack people for 2.2k. That was overpowered. Lets also not forget that when they took the myth proc away they gave all our ca/spells a substantial increase (800-1.2k). Going back to an old proc that was op is not the answer. Our class should represent our utility function, just like bruisers clicky is based upon their tank function and assasins their dps function. But we must remember that this is for PVP not PVE, so utility in the way of dps is a pve function(OMG LOOK AT MY PARSE E [Removed for Content] SO BIG!). Give us a proc that its ability is Utility to counter key classes in pvp fights such as healers and crusaders. (which btw are becoming more and more OP in solo pvp than any other class we fight.)Please only dirges post in this thread, if your not in a pvp server and your main is not a dirge u probably dont know anything about the class in pvp to the extent to give your opinion any credibility.

PeaSy1

12-24-2009, 06:58 PM

You should learn your class before u come here to try and change it.

BlueEternal

12-24-2009, 07:38 PM

<cite>BubbaCajunOG wrote:</cite><blockquote>Please only dirges post in this thread, if your not in a pvp server and your main is not a dirge u probably dont know anything about the class in pvp to the extent to give your opinion any credibility.</blockquote>Basically you want a whole bunch of biased opinions roaming this thread and no one to shut down some of the overpowered ideas i've seen in this thread. Cool.

Neskonlith

12-24-2009, 08:52 PM

<cite>Naroc@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>BubbaCajunOG wrote:</cite><blockquote>Please only dirges post in this thread, if your not in a pvp server and your main is not a dirge u probably dont know anything about the class in pvp to the extent to give your opinion any credibility.</blockquote>Basically you want a whole bunch of biased informed opinions roaming this thread and no one to shut down some of the overpowered ideas i've seen in this thread trolls trying to derail the discussion. Cool.</blockquote>FTFY.<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" />

PeaSy1

12-24-2009, 11:17 PM

So i played a dirge as a main for this expac but because i got bored of the class my opinion becomes void?

BubbaCajunOG

12-26-2009, 03:01 PM

No u dont denee, the only dirges who deserve to speak are those that continued to play their class even after the nerf. And the only overpowered suggestion has been anything that brings back the old proc in any shape or form, we should not be hitting for over 2k in a single swing against someone in full crit mit gear in pvp. All that would do is bring back all the scrub dirge players who attack and hold their breath hoping for a myth proc. They need to change our myth proc to help with our hardest and toughest match ups, crusaders and chain/plate healers.

Kayso

12-26-2009, 03:44 PM

chain healers ftw

BubbaCajunOG

12-26-2009, 06:05 PM

<cite>Jenya wrote:</cite><blockquote>chain healers ftw</blockquote>*shakes fist* JJEEEEEENNNNNNNNYYYYAAAAAAAAA

Kayso

12-26-2009, 07:32 PM

/hug lol