Accepted as MT, viable DPS - stop moaning pls!

[Wildfury77]

<p>I'm fed up of the constant anti-monk posts on our own forum!! Its ok to campaign for improvements but to claim *we can't tank*, *we are just shiney farmer's* makes us lose all credibility ---> cos the DEVs have seen what some of us CAN do!</p><p>I'm in a Medium raid-guild --> Myths, Trak, A lot of TSO, (WOEx2/week if we could still be bothered).</p><ol><li>Last night i MT'd Emperor's Atheneum with 1 healer(warden) with no agro loss and no whipes on last named - something i've seen many Ptanks struggle with!</li><li>I can't parse 20k like BChizzle but i'm up to 12-14k now....so DPS improving</li><li>Can MT PoF/Guk3 with 1 healer.....</li><li>Offtank/Emergency tank on TSO raid zones. MT PUG raids for VP/Levi etc.</li><li>Can clear DForge in under 8mins (as MT)</li></ol><p>I'm not claiming to be BETTER than a crusader, but clearly we CAN MT and MT well, i get a raid place, parse well and offtank well. Its not as bad as some of you say!</p><p><strong>My fixes:</strong></p><ul><li>I would like more AOE agro.</li><li>I would like our debuff to actually debuff significantly.</li></ul>

[BChizzle]

<p><cite>Grondak@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm fed up of the constant anti-monk posts on our own forum!! Its ok to campaign for improvements but to claim *we can't tank*, *we are just shiney farmer's* makes us lose all credibility ---> cos the DEVs have seen what some of us CAN do!</p><p>I'm in a Medium raid-guild --> Myths, Trak, A lot of TSO, (WOEx2/week if we could still be bothered).</p><ol><li>Last night i MT'd Emperor's Atheneum with 1 healer(warden) with no agro loss and no whipes on last named - something i've seen many Ptanks struggle with!</li><li>I can't parse 20k like BChizzle but i'm up to 12-14k now....so DPS improving</li><li>Can MT PoF/Guk3 with 1 healer.....</li><li>Offtank/Emergency tank on TSO raid zones. MT PUG raids for VP/Levi etc.</li><li>Can clear DForge in under 8mins (as MT)</li></ol><p>I'm not claiming to be BETTER than a crusader, but clearly we CAN MT and MT well, i get a raid place, parse well and offtank well. Its not as bad as some of you say!</p><p><strong>My fixes:</strong></p><ul><li>I would like more AOE agro.</li><li>I would like our debuff to actually debuff significantly.</li></ul></blockquote><p>I feel the same way man.  I think many of the folks here raise some good issues with our class but the end of the world monks are useless mongering is just way too much over the top for me.  I'd like to see some improvements in some key areas but we are hardly as bad as people like to scream about.</p>

[The_Cheeseman]

<p>Congratulations owning heroic content in raid gear that trivializes it. Now, when you can easily tank PoF/Guk3 with a single healer wearing all heroic-obtainable gear, you might have a point.</p>

[BChizzle]

<p><cite>The_Cheeseman wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Congratulations owning heroic content in raid gear that trivializes it. Now, when you can easily tank PoF/Guk3 with a single healer wearing all heroic-obtainable gear, you might have a point.</p></blockquote><p>I did it in RoK gear you don't have a point.</p>

[Wildfury77]

<p><cite>The_Cheeseman wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Congratulations owning heroic content in raid gear that trivializes it. Now, when you can easily tank PoF/Guk3 with a single healer wearing all heroic-obtainable gear, you might have a point.</p></blockquote><p>One word: progression.....</p><p>TSO has been out ages - easy to gear imho in stages.</p><ol><li>Shards ---> T2 armor, etc.</li><li>Heroic instances --> Fabled upgrades e.g. Ranged Item in Anathema, Vampire ring in EAbbey, Bracelet and Charm and Weapon in Guk1, Waist item in Guk 2, Necklace in Veksar (ST). Even if u were in a dps role or as MT with 2 healers, none of these zones are hard and its not that rare TBH.</li><li>Get your masters and 200 AA.</li><li>Get your T3 paterns from WOE and Jewelry. Even an inept PUGx2 should kill first 5 nameds TBH. You can do this x2/week</li><li>Finish TSO signature quest --> Sweet weapon and cloak.</li><li>Get your myth - old zone raid content.</li></ol><p>So you now have a toon in T3 fabled armor, x2 fabled weapons + hopefully myth. Fabled jewelry with ward procs.....and you haven't touched a TSO x4 raid zone...<strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><em>BTW this is how i upgraded initially!!</em></span></strong></p>

[Morgane]

<p>The shard armor *did* make quite a bit of difference for my monk as far as survivability goes. And it's pretty easy to get shards these days. Not only do you have the solo shard quests, but there's always pugs in ooc chat looking for groups to put together for shard runs. If you do a few shard runs, the solo run and the Daily Dbl, you can get 6 or 8 shards per day. More if you're willing to simply crank out all the shard missions every day.</p><p>Solo and (most) group play isn't really our problem, although an aoe taunt would probably make many monks cry with happiness, except for BChiz, who is just so darn special he can do it all with one hand tied behind his back and the other hand typing out insults on the forum. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /> I think where we fall short is in a raid setting.</p>

[BChizzle]

<p><cite>Morghasi@Everfrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The shard armor *did* make quite a bit of difference for my monk as far as survivability goes. And it's pretty easy to get shards these days. Not only do you have the solo shard quests, but there's always pugs in ooc chat looking for groups to put together for shard runs. If you do a few shard runs, the solo run and the Daily Dbl, you can get 6 or 8 shards per day. More if you're willing to simply crank out all the shard missions every day.</p><p>Solo and (most) group play isn't really our problem, although an aoe taunt would probably make many monks cry with happiness, except for BChiz, who is just so darn special he can do it all with one hand tied behind his back and the other hand typing out insults on the forum. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /> I think where we fall short is in a raid setting.</p></blockquote><p>I didn't insult you.  You told all monks to reroll, you insulted a whole class now you are pushing it even further saying my name like its me vs you to try and distract from the fact you got called out for not being able to hack it on your monk.  I didn't make you choose to tell everyone your QQ story about how you played so bad as a monk you had to become a buff bot you did.</p><p>I find it strangely poetic that you are posting here when this whole thread is about people like you who run down brawlers because you weren't good enough to play one.</p>

[Morgane]

<p><cite>BChizzle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I didn't insult you.  You told all monks to reroll, you insulted a whole class now you are pushing it even further saying my name like its me vs you to try and distract from the fact you got called out for not being able to hack it on your monk.  I didn't make you choose to tell everyone your QQ story about how you played so bad as a monk you had to become a buff bot you did.</p><p>I find it strangely poetic that you are posting here when this whole thread is about people like you who run down brawlers because you weren't good enough to play one.</p></blockquote><p>Reading Comprehension: FAIL</p><p>I said, and I quote from the original post: "My advice  (if you want a regular raid spot, that is... because Monks are still a darn good solo class) is to retire your Monk, spend the time rollling another class and leave these sad forums to the trolls, who will then probably turn on each other simply for lack of anyone else to disagree with. LOL"</p><p>You seem to have taken issue with the troll part... which says a lot. Then you decided to try insulting me by blathering on about my "buff bot". Then you carried on about things I never said. Basically, all the BS you usually pull when someone doesn't agree with you. All you can do is insult me... you can't really come up with anything viable to say.</p><p>Go look at your posting history, since your memory seems to be a short one.  Thread after thread after thread of you [Removed for Content] people off. It's kind of entertaining!</p>

[BChizzle]

<p><cite>Morghasi@Everfrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>BChizzle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I didn't insult you.  You told all monks to reroll, you insulted a whole class now you are pushing it even further saying my name like its me vs you to try and distract from the fact you got called out for not being able to hack it on your monk.  I didn't make you choose to tell everyone your QQ story about how you played so bad as a monk you had to become a buff bot you did.</p><p>I find it strangely poetic that you are posting here when this whole thread is about people like you who run down brawlers because you weren't good enough to play one.</p></blockquote><p>Reading Comprehension: FAIL</p><p>I said, and I quote from the original post: "My advice  (if you want a regular raid spot, that is... because Monks are still a darn good solo class) is to retire your Monk, spend the time rollling another class and leave these sad forums to the trolls, who will then probably turn on each other simply for lack of anyone else to disagree with. LOL"</p><p>You seem to have taken issue with the troll part... which says a lot. Then you decided to try insulting me by blathering on about my "buff bot". Then you carried on about things I never said. Basically, all the BS you usually pull when someone doesn't agree with you. All you can do is insult me... you can't really come up with anything viable to say.</p><p>Go look at your posting history, since your memory seems to be a short one.  Thread after thread after thread of you [Removed for Content] people off. It's kind of entertaining!</p></blockquote><p>You told monks to retire and reroll.  I think it is about time you followed you own advice I am sure your vast knowledge on how to play this game will be welcomed in the dirge forum.  As far as I am concerned trolls like you have nothing of substance to add, don't let the door hit you on the way out.</p>

[Morgane]

<p><cite>BChizzle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You told monks to retire and reroll.  I think it is about time you followed you own advice I am sure your vast knowledge on how to play this game will be welcomed in the dirge forum.  As far as I am concerned trolls like you have nothing of substance to add, don't let the door hit you on the way out.</p></blockquote><p>No, Chizzy... I didn't "tell" any Monks to reroll. I gave "advice" to those Monks who's wish it is to raid at end-game. Perhaps it's not your reading comrehension at all but a disingenous attempt on your part to deliberately distort my original post.</p><p>The only thing you can do is continue to insult, bully and troll. That's the only thing you're good at and more people than I have been subjected to your abuse. If you took my "troll" comment personally then perhaps you should review with yourself why that is.</p>

[jrolla777]

<p><span ><cite></cite></span>Morghasi, you got called out for sucking, just stop already. Bchizzle can smell BS a mile away, and you reak. leave these forums until you have something positive to bring. im pretty tired of seeing your fail posts</p>

[Morgane]

<p>Edited: Deleted to robotically claim that monks are fine, just fine. Nothing to see here, move on.</p>

[Morgane]

<p>Edited: Deleted. Ain't worth it.</p>

[BChizzle]

<p><cite>Mancy@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span><cite></cite></span>Morghasi, you got called out for sucking, just stop already. Bchizzle can smell BS a mile away, and you reak. leave these forums until you have something positive to bring. im pretty tired of seeing your fail posts</p></blockquote><p>Whats funny is there is a sticky thread up at the top of this forum listing all the brawler issues, yet every month some guy feels the need to come on here and tell everyone to reroll like its some discovery on how to find happyness in EQ2.  The fact is peoples attitudes is the #1 problem with brawlers and people like this guy just compound that problem.  And I am not saying don't reroll if you aren't happy with your class, that is a great solution for you, but all monks shouldn't reroll because Jihrun is unhappy as a monk.  Grondak got it right, monks can do everything required of them this expansion, we can single target tank anything, we dps well and we have some great utility and I am really glad to see other monks speak out about it.</p>

[The_Cheeseman]

<p>Personally, I think telling people to re-roll their favorite class rather than hoping for positive changes is basically just trolling, and such threads should be locked. I have been quite open about the fact that I see significant flaws in the performance of my monk in TSO, but I definitely don't claim that we're "worthless" or "garbage." I think we're merely suffering the effects of extreme mudflation on a class that has always suffered from "multiple-role disorder."</p><p>Assuming that SOE sufficiently addresses the mudflation issue with T9 itemization and makes some long-overdue enhancements to taunt values, we should be sitting pretty in the next expansion. I guess it's possible that I merely feel this way because I have played this character for over 5 years now (nearly 10 counting EQ1) and refuse to accept that my favorite class is inherently broken, but I will continue supporting my delusions for at least another 3-5 months and see how we look come Tier 9.</p>

[Morgane]

<p>I NEVER claimed we were worthless or garbage. NEVER.</p><p>I NEVER "told" anyone to reroll their class. NEVER.</p><p>What I said was that if your goal is to raid at end-game then re-roll another class and save yourself the frustration. If SOE addresses some monk issues then that would be awesome but until then, it just feels like monks are falling further and further behind with every expansion.</p><p>Am I frustrated with that? You bet I am. Because I love the class. I gave the same advice I took for myself... which is to re-roll another class IF AND ONLY IF, raiding is end goal.</p><p>NEVER said we were worthless or garbage. THAT would indeed be trolling. Much like when BChizzle called my dirge a boring buff bot. THAT is trolling. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Morgane]

<p><cite>The_Cheeseman wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p> I merely feel this way because I have played this character for over 5 years now (nearly 10 counting EQ1) and refuse to accept that my favorite class is inherently broken, but I will continue supporting my delusions for at least another 3-5 months and see how we look come Tier 9.</p></blockquote><p>I feel the same way. I love the class but I got really frustrated with lack of dev communication with us. I think our stances should be addressed, for example I should not have to tank in Offensive to hold aggro. And I'd like an AOE taunt... those TSO mobs are hell without one. My tab button is worn out and my guildmates are dizzy. And it seems to me that the plate classes have gone up in DPS, while we remain stagnant in DPS. Who wouldn't want a plate tank who has more surivability and almost as much (and more as I've seen in some cases) dps than a brawler? And a few good endlines in our Monk tree wouldn't hurt either.</p>

[ArcticBlue182]

<p><cite>BChizzle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>The_Cheeseman wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Congratulations owning heroic content in raid gear that trivializes it. Now, when you can easily tank PoF/Guk3 with a single healer wearing all heroic-obtainable gear, you might have a point.</p></blockquote><p>I did it in RoK gear you don't have a point.</p></blockquote><p>when you say you did it in RoK gear, are you talking RoK legendary or high end fabled raid equipment ?i dont know of it was you or someone else, but they also were saying that they did XYZ in RoK equipment but it turned out they were using the best RoK raid eqipment had to offer, which is kind of a pointless arguement.</p><p>as for the monk class its self, i think it need work simple as that, if you in a raiding guild and get the brawler spot then you have nothing to moan about, however if you are not or the brawler spot is taken then you do have problems, its as simple as that, on my server noone wants a monk to tank, noone wants a monk as DPS. All you see in level chat is plate tank needed for zone X or high DPS class only last spot, these people can be asking for litrally 30+mins trying to get the class they want, if i send them a tell saying i will come they ask what class then you get told no, we dont want a monk.</p><p>it does not matter how good the monk class REALLY is if the perseption of the class is something else, if the majority of people playing EQ2 believe the monk class cannot tank, cannot DPS then monks will not be wanted no matter what the truth is.i also think its kind of pointless coming on to these forums or any forums for that matter and saying you can do XYZ instances when you are wearing T3 or better, believe it or not, not everyone raids or has the time to, some people dont even like raiding so do not want to do it.</p>

[BChizzle]

<p><cite>ArcticBlue182 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>when you say you did it in RoK gear, are you talking RoK legendary or high end fabled raid equipment ?i dont know of it was you or someone else, but they also were saying that they did XYZ in RoK equipment but it turned out they were using the best RoK raid eqipment had to offer, which is kind of a pointless arguement.</p><p>as for the monk class its self, i think it need work simple as that, if you in a raiding guild and get the brawler spot then you have nothing to moan about, however if you are not or the brawler spot is taken then you do have problems, its as simple as that, on my server noone wants a monk to tank, noone wants a monk as DPS. All you see in level chat is plate tank needed for zone X or high DPS class only last spot, these people can be asking for litrally 30+mins trying to get the class they want, if i send them a tell saying i will come they ask what class then you get told no, we dont want a monk.</p><p>it does not matter how good the monk class REALLY is if the perseption of the class is something else, if the majority of people playing EQ2 believe the monk class cannot tank, cannot DPS then monks will not be wanted no matter what the truth is.i also think its kind of pointless coming on to these forums or any forums for that matter and saying you can do XYZ instances when you are wearing T3 or better, believe it or not, not everyone raids or has the time to, some people dont even like raiding so do not want to do it.</p></blockquote><p>TSO shard gear > rok raid gear</p><p>And as far as monks having trouble getting in groups that is the whole point the constant crying on here and defeatist attitude does far worse then the actual reality.  You really expect people to want a leather tank when all they have to do is log onto the forums and see people crying about not being able to tank when in reality we tank fine.</p>

[lavrence]

<p>Ok, This thread seems to have been derailed by the constain monk QQ (what a surprise).  I am no Bchizzle, but i have tanked [Removed for Content] near every zone in t2 with a fabled epic, with little to know problems, if ur having a problem finding a tank possition, build your own group, if you want to dps....again build your own group, or go make a scout because monks are and always will be TANKS. You cannot expect to tank any zone without working to get the gear needed for that zone and in reality T2 gear is all that is needed (well not really needed but helpful) for any zone, so if your going to complain please do it somewhere else, and stop flooding the monk forums with this nonsense. If you want to become a better monk listen to the "resident troll" Bchizzle cause obviously he is a better monk that you will be at any class in this game.</p>

[Wiou]

<p>Seriously?</p><p>Only point here: If you parse 12-14k, you are way overgeared , your point should be ignored. The original responder to the thread was right.</p>

[Wildfury77]

<p>In good gear but was doing 10k in T3 shard set + myth. Hardly top-end gear!! WOE isn't exactly challenging these days--> I tank it in PUGs successfully of late.</p><p>A lot depends on the classes you group with:</p><p><em><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><strong>Monk(MT),Dirge,Chanter,Swashie,Warden + either Brigand (TSO zones) or Shaman (Raid MT)</strong></span></em></p><p>I prefer Shaman+Druid for when i raid tank/offtank.</p><p>I prefer Brigand + 1 healer for all the TSO zones.</p>

[BChizzle]

<p><cite>Grondak@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>In good gear but was doing 10k in T3 shard set + myth. Hardly top-end gear!! WOE isn't exactly challenging these days--> I tank it in PUGs successfully of late.</p><p>A lot depends on the classes you group with:</p><p><em><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><strong>Monk(MT),Dirge,Chanter,Swashie,Warden + either Brigand (TSO zones) or Shaman (Raid MT)</strong></span></em></p><p>I prefer Shaman+Druid for when i raid tank/offtank.</p><p>I prefer Brigand + 1 healer for all the TSO zones.</p></blockquote><p>People will always have some sort of excuse.  I love when they make the whole 'you raid avatars' excuse until I point out I wear 1 avatar item and 2 charms.</p>

[Stalack]

<p>Well I was here shopping for a new Monk for my guild I ran upon this thread. The Monk we are trying to replace was able to tank Ykesha, Miragul, Field General, Field General adds, Anashti and pretty much anything else we asked him to. We want a monk for their versatility, able to tank, able to DPS, the have great buffs. Its a great class and the more you work at it the more you can do. Please someone step up and come raid with us on Guk. We have killed everything but Munzok and want to get him down.</p><p>Ganner on Guk</p>

[Eugam]

<p><cite>Grondak@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I<strong>My fixes:</strong></p><ul><li>I would like more AOE agro.</li><li>I would like our debuff to actually debuff significantly.</li></ul></blockquote><p>More initial hate. One of  the reasons why people dont want to have Monks tank is that he needs time to build hate. I am not fabled geared, just shard armor. I am tank specced and now have two taunts, rescue, peel and the "rescue" from AA. The timers are bit slow for group instances and i miss some sort of initial hate burst. Because usually the others have to wait for me, not me for them.</p><p>Building the "perfect" group isnt an option here. I almost exclusively tank for guildies who need a tank for something to achieve. This means i maybe play with two healers, a summoner and other random classes.</p>

[circusgirl]

<p>Single target hate should not be an issue for folks here.  Multi-target I can agree with, but single target I find myself sometimes having to sit back and just autoattack while I'm hovering at 90% on the hate meter...without any hate buffs on.  Monks have hands-down the best single-target aggro of any tank in this game, guardian included.  Granted, its not like single-target aggro counts for much these days, since everything either memwipes or has 20 adds, but it certainly isn't something to complain about, heh.</p>

[Siatfallen]

<p><cite>Vinka@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Single target hate should not be an issue for folks here.  Multi-target I can agree with, but single target I find myself sometimes having to sit back and just autoattack while I'm hovering at 90% on the hate meter...without any hate buffs on.  Monks have hands-down the best single-target aggro of any tank in this game, guardian included.  Granted, its not like single-target aggro counts for much these days, since everything either memwipes or has 20 adds, but it certainly isn't something to complain about, heh.</p></blockquote><p>I'd point to itemization as a major factor here. Monks are very dependant on autoattacks to generate hate and have always been. Anyone who doesn't run ideal weapons are going to be in trouble in regards to aggro. Ideal weapons nowadays includes the mythical; we can go about how mythical weapons are really defining the classes they belong to nowadays, but for those who do not have it, I can understand the problem.</p><p>I should note, of course, that I've not taken a serious look at the x2 weapons - I just remember the huge jump in DPS (and hence threat) output upon getting the mythical.</p><p>Best fix to this? Make taunts mean something as far as keeping aggro is concerned. That would lower the need for boosting our DPS output. Nothing you don't all know already.</p>

[BChizzle]

<p><cite>Siatfallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Vinka@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Single target hate should not be an issue for folks here.  Multi-target I can agree with, but single target I find myself sometimes having to sit back and just autoattack while I'm hovering at 90% on the hate meter...without any hate buffs on.  Monks have hands-down the best single-target aggro of any tank in this game, guardian included.  Granted, its not like single-target aggro counts for much these days, since everything either memwipes or has 20 adds, but it certainly isn't something to complain about, heh.</p></blockquote><p>I'd point to itemization as a major factor here. Monks are very dependant on autoattacks to generate hate and have always been. Anyone who doesn't run ideal weapons are going to be in trouble in regards to aggro. Ideal weapons nowadays includes the mythical; we can go about how mythical weapons are really defining the classes they belong to nowadays, but for those who do not have it, I can understand the problem.</p><p>I should note, of course, that I've not taken a serious look at the x2 weapons - I just remember the huge jump in DPS (and hence threat) output upon getting the mythical.</p><p>Best fix to this? Make taunts mean something as far as keeping aggro is concerned. That would lower the need for boosting our DPS output. Nothing you don't all know already.</p></blockquote><p>If people you are grouping with are at your gear level then you don't need a mythical, however, it isn't really feasible for someone non mythicaled to think they can hold agro off of mythed dps.</p>

[circusgirl]

<p>I was speaking of equally well-geared tanks, actually.  And it isn't entirely just autoattack damage--even if you take dps entirely out of the equation (on mobs like Tuskers before you get to the enraged part of the fight) I find that the raw hate generation of a brawler on a single target, pretty much exclusively from our two taunts and dragon rage proccing, seems to be greater than most other tanks.  Of course, holy ground and grave sacrament more than make up for the difference in hate generation, and are far more valuable when those inevitable memwipes come, but its been my experience that if a mob doesn't memwipe, I'm not going to lose aggro unless someone does something dumb in the first few seconds of the fight.</p><p>Truth of the matter is, single-target aggro is one area where we're doing just fine.  I'm certainly not happy with our AE survivability, would like strikethrough to go away, want to be able to up our mitigation as easily as plates up their avoidance, etc., but there are some areas where we're totally golden.</p>

[Lethe5683]

<p><cite>BChizzle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If people you are grouping with are at your gear level then you don't need a mythical, however, it isn't really feasible for someone non mythicaled to think they can hold agro off of mythed dps.</p></blockquote><p>I have been doing this ever since TSO came out, successfully I might add.</p>

[BChizzle]

<p><cite>Lethe5683 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>BChizzle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If people you are grouping with are at your gear level then you don't need a mythical, however, it isn't really feasible for someone non mythicaled to think they can hold agro off of mythed dps.</p></blockquote><p>I have been doing this ever since TSO came out, successfully I might add.</p></blockquote><p>You just play with bad dpsers then.</p>

[Lethe5683]

<p><cite>BChizzle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Lethe5683 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>BChizzle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If people you are grouping with are at your gear level then you don't need a mythical, however, it isn't really feasible for someone non mythicaled to think they can hold agro off of mythed dps.</p></blockquote><p>I have been doing this ever since TSO came out, successfully I might add.</p></blockquote><p>You just play with bad dpsers then.</p></blockquote><p>No, I just have a good group setup and am good at tanking.</p>

[mr23sgte]

<p>I expect SF to be just like TSO for Brawlers without the shiney farming capability. Nothing will change ............</p>

[Rajirrah]

<p>I've got 3 Monks, they kick butt as MT or as support. I love the class because it's fun. So THERE!!!</p><p>as for the rest of the complainers and finger pointers...</p><p>YAWWWWWNNNNNNN....................</p>

[jeffdo]

<p><em><span >Single target hate should not be an issue for folks here.  Multi-target I can agree with, but single target I find myself sometimes having to sit back and just autoattack while I'm hovering at 90% on the hate meter</span></em></p><p>---</p><p>Are you in offense when you are doing this? I have trouble with aggro on my monk, and he is reasonably well geared. (Full t4 raid, mythical etc.) In offense I can hold aggro better, but it seems to me that monks are kind of broken if we hold aggro better in our offense stance than in our tanking stance.</p><p>However I can still lose aggro to mythical dps even in offense. It seems if they are putting out 10k+ I have a very hard time holding it, I can pull it back with snap aggroes but it is a constant battle to keep the mob on me. Aoe is a mess.</p><p>As for tanking, once I had mythical and decent mit (5500 self buffed in defense) it seems to have gotten alot easier. Other than the aoe aggro issues for brawlers, my biggest problem with the class is how much easier it is for plate tanks to get avoidance than it is for a brawler to get mitigation.</p>