Is GU54 still on track for release Dec. 1st? [Archive]

Calthine

11-30-2009, 11:39 PM

Avianna

11-30-2009, 11:47 PM

In the famous words of wise man Scotty from Star Trek "Better to tell them we will be ready in 2 hours when you know it will only take 45 minutes, that way if everything goes as planned and you're ready in 45 minutes you are the hero, but if you tell them it will take 45 minutes and something goes wrong and you're not ready for 2 hours then you become a failure"<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Hecula

12-01-2009, 12:17 AM

<cite>Kiara wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm sure some folks will be annoyed that we moved it, but that's an unfortunate side effect of giving out dates at all <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> I still believe it's better for us to do it this way, than to not give any dates at all and just spring things, though!</blockquote>I agree with your second comment. I don't think there are many except a select few who would get that upset when things have to be delayed. What many of us like to see is this type of stuff voluntarily given."Yes we were shooting for Dec 1st but due to unforseen delays with several of the parts of GU54, we will have to push things back to a target date of December 8th. Sorry about that."It's perfect - tells us in advance - don't take time off to be home on Dec 1st to play the new stuff, shoot for Dec 8th instead. It's not definitive about Dec 8th either - just a good idea of what to expect. Kudos.

Avianna

12-01-2009, 12:23 AM

Agree^^^

Rijacki

12-01-2009, 12:46 AM

<cite>Avianna@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>In the famous words of wise man Scotty from Star Trek "Better to tell them we will be ready in 2 hours when you know it will only take 45 minutes, that way if everything goes as planned and you're ready in 45 minutes you are the hero, but if you tell them it will take 45 minutes and something goes wrong and you're not ready for 2 hours then you become a failure"<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>When they've done that, pushed a date forward because they were able to, there is a HUGE outcry of protest, too.

Avianna

12-01-2009, 12:51 AM

well if you give a moose a muffin!

Kulaf

12-01-2009, 01:04 AM

<cite>Kiara wrote:</cite><blockquote>We are planning for Will of a Tyrant to go live on Dec 8th, provided nothing goes wrong.I do not believe that the shader changes will be ready then.December 1st was never a hard date, it was a tentative date. I'm sure some folks will be annoyed that we moved it, but that's an unfortunate side effect of giving out dates at all <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> I still believe it's better for us to do it this way, than to not give any dates at all and just spring things, though!</blockquote>Thanks Kiara. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /> I like to keep the guild updated on GU's and have been following the Shader progress with much interest. GU54 seems like a lot of bug fixing so who can have an issue with that!?!Thanks agian,Kula

Gaige

12-01-2009, 02:09 AM

<cite>Kiara wrote:</cite><blockquote>I do not believe that the shader changes will be ready then.</blockquote>...Over six months of delays on the shaders now.

Kitsune

12-01-2009, 03:48 AM

Thanks for keeping us updated, Kiara. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Really appreciated when you have so much on your plate here.

Jasuo

12-01-2009, 04:23 AM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kiara wrote:</cite><blockquote>I do not believe that the shader changes will be ready then.</blockquote>...Over six months of delays on the shaders now.</blockquote>track record with releasing content speaks for itself :/

StaticLex

12-01-2009, 04:47 AM

<cite>Kiara wrote:</cite><blockquote> I'm sure some folks will be annoyed that we moved it, but that's an unfortunate side effect of giving out dates at all.</blockquote>I can really care less if the date thrown out there is spot on. A best guess updated weekly would be sufficient.

Antipalad

12-01-2009, 05:52 AM

10 bux says Shader model 3.0 support won't arrive untill Sentinel's Fate release at the earliest.

Raetsel

12-01-2009, 07:00 AM

My magic 8 ball tells me, Shaders will come "someday" together with ambX <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

ShinGoku

12-01-2009, 08:46 AM

Lol if any player is actually qualified to completly redesign the rendering aspect of a live MMO program, perhaps you should forward your resume to the devs and ask for a job.Otherwise, cut em some slack, they are doing the best they can.

feldon30

12-01-2009, 09:58 AM

My understanding of the issue is, Shaders 3.0 runs great on the developer's PC and a range of test PCs, but due to how different graphics cards handle things, the performance was unacceptable on a certain cross section of the video cards out there. Wasn't DirectX and WDM supposed to solve this? Shaders 3 have been done for weeks now. But on some setups, framerates would have sunk like a stone. And since Shaders 3 is all-or-nothing (it will not be a client-side setting to re-enable Shaders 1.0, you'll only be able to disable Complex Shaders and go back to flat textures), they can't push it until the performance issues are resolved.

salty21db

12-01-2009, 10:12 AM

Gamers always complain. Im still boggled as to why companies try to appease them all when its impossible and the first complainer to figure out how to build a game up and satisy 100% of the community plz inform me of your methods, till then set back and relax.

d1anaw

12-01-2009, 11:16 AM

d1anaw

12-01-2009, 11:19 AM

<cite>salty21db wrote:</cite><blockquote>Gamers always complain. Im still boggled as to why companies try to appease them all when its impossible and the first complainer to figure out how to build a game up and satisy 100% of the community plz inform me of your methods, till then set back and relax.</blockquote>You are correct. Someone is always going to complain. And if they did everything that was wanted, they would complain that players are not playing "right". It's the nature of the control freak. Companies do try to appease as many of their customers as possible. It's the only way they can stay in business. But there comes a point when no matter what you do, it isn't going to be "good enough". Then it's not about the company, it's about the whiner. They are likely never satisfied with anything that anyone else does and never will be. That's when you have to say, oh well and move on. It's then a no win situation.

Ahlana

12-01-2009, 11:48 AM

<cite>d1anaw wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ShinGoku wrote:</cite><blockquote>Lol if any player is actually qualified to completly redesign the rendering aspect of a live MMO program, perhaps you should forward your resume to the devs and ask for a job.Otherwise, cut em some slack, they are doing the best they can.</blockquote>hahahahaha Good answer. BTW, do people really take time off work to be home because of game updates? That's really disturbing.</blockquote>It is disturbing /nod Better to work that day and take the next one off <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Hecula

12-01-2009, 12:24 PM

<cite>d1anaw wrote:</cite><blockquote>BTW, do people really take time off work to be home because of game updates? That's really disturbing.</blockquote>Taking time off is pretty relative. Some people (like me) have flexible work schedules that allow us to be home when the update hits. I like playing live content first for the discos and such. I get paid the same either way so it's no big deal.

Gaige

12-01-2009, 01:23 PM

<cite>ShinGoku wrote:</cite><blockquote>Lol if any player is actually qualified to completly redesign the rendering aspect of a live MMO program, perhaps you should forward your resume to the devs and ask for a job.Otherwise, cut em some slack, they are doing the best they can.</blockquote>Six month delays aren't okay, even in the MMO industry. They announced the shader revamp in JUNE and have given numerous live dates since then and they've missed every single one. Over half a year in delays with it looking very likely that they won't go live until the expansion as a "selling point" - don't get me wrong I realize everyone will get shaders with or without SF but the point still stands.This is way different than a delay, this is a colossal mistake, but at least Rothgar recognizes it as such. With the move to quarterly GUs you simply can't afford to delay things multiple times or else you end up with nothing to show for your huge Fan Faire panel HALF A YEAR later.I mean it was 8/26 when Rothgar was here on these forums apologizing for Shader 3.0 not hitting GU53 and talking about how they were almost finished and they just needed a little but more time but it was okay because it was only a two month delay and here we are a week out from GU54 and Kiara is saying that, GASP, Shader 3.0 isn't going to make it again.Rothgar also said in that post in August that he doesn't see them pushing Shader 3.0 in a hotfix, implied they'd be tied in with a GU which means with this delay we won't see them until GU55, which is the SF expansion, which is coming out 9 months after Shader 3.0 was shown off at Fan Faire, and not even in the same calendar year.The whole mess just seems poorly handled imo.

Rahatmattata

12-01-2009, 01:50 PM

So quit or deal with it. I don't think anyone really cares about your QQ.

Bromir

12-01-2009, 01:57 PM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kiara wrote:</cite><blockquote>I do not believe that the shader changes will be ready then.</blockquote>...Over six months of delays on the shaders now.</blockquote>Not correct .. It would be six month delay if a new date for expected release had not surfaced.

Gaige

12-01-2009, 01:59 PM

<cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite><blockquote>So quit or deal with it. I don't think anyone really cares about your QQ.</blockquote>No thx, it doesn't cost me to play and I get SF for free. Why would I quit? Its worth staying just to see people like you post all [Removed for Content] <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Gaige

12-01-2009, 02:00 PM

<cite>Bromir@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>Not correct .. It would be six month delay if a new date for expected release had not surfaced.</blockquote>Supposed to launch with GU53 in Sept, launching with GU55 in February (maybe). Use your hands, I'll wait.

Gortha

12-01-2009, 03:27 PM

The Dev (Imago-Quem) that is doing the Shader 3.0 coding (by himself!) has been very active in <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=454116" target="_blank">this thread</a> answering questions/ posting screenshots and giving regular status updates on his progress.

Wolfsbaine

12-01-2009, 03:33 PM

I personally don't see a reason to argue over this. Yes the Shader 3.0 will be an improvement to what we are currently using. It would be nice to see the graphics running off the GPU instead of the CPU. I am curious to see if there will be more content added, for the storyline. I didnt see much on the storylines with Qeynos and Freeport. I know they will end it all in SF. I hope they dont do it like they did with TSO. It just seemed like they just left us hangin with the storyline and jumped into the xpac. It is good that they fixed alot of the older bugs. Maybe they will have fixed a named mob in Everfrost who seems to keep leashing on me in the water. I get the mob halfway down in health and he pops up full health and power. Makes it annoying to have to bring him down 5 to 6 times. The mob is Undertow i believe. 46^^^. Regardless they are working to make things better for everyone. They are just taking longer to work on the shader 3.0 I would like to see a moosh plushie on the live server. Maybe make him say the same things he says to adventurers. Just an idea though. I do have a question about the GU. Will there be a cinematic for the destruction in Freeport?

Landiin

12-01-2009, 03:52 PM

I've said all along they'll use shader 3.0 as a selling point for SF even though every one will get it. I mean really why wouldn't they, I would...

woolf2k

12-01-2009, 07:05 PM

<cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Avianna@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>In the famous words of wise man Scotty from Star Trek "Better to tell them we will be ready in 2 hours when you know it will only take 45 minutes, that way if everything goes as planned and you're ready in 45 minutes you are the hero, but if you tell them it will take 45 minutes and something goes wrong and you're not ready for 2 hours then you become a failure"<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>When they've done that, pushed a date forward because they were able to, there is a HUGE outcry of protest, too.</blockquote>QFTdamned if you do, damned if you don't.caught between a rock and a hard place.lolI've actually tried to pull a scotty at work but they usually know better... so I don't x4 times...only x2... LOL

woolf2k

12-01-2009, 07:07 PM

and I'm bummed not to see the shader go live...but to tell the truth I was already setting myself up to expect it for Expansion release so....not so let down.if it's not ready, it's not ready...I know it's a big change.

Valdaglerion

12-01-2009, 07:13 PM

So, next week it is, rock on and thanks for the update.

woolf2k

12-01-2009, 07:14 PM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kiara wrote:</cite><blockquote>I do not believe that the shader changes will be ready then.</blockquote>...Over six months of delays on the shaders now.</blockquote>a fixed date on the shaders were NEVER given. they were all hopeful tentative dates...

Gaige

12-01-2009, 07:50 PM

<cite>Jaine@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>a fixed date on the shaders were NEVER given. they were all hopeful tentative dates...</blockquote>Um,"At Fan Faire we announced that this upgrade would go live with Game Update 53 which is just around the corner. Unfortunately I'm here to let you know that we will be pushing this upgrade back to Game Update 54. We always hate to push a feature back after we've announced it but we feel that this is the best thing for the game overall. We are making a new commitment to quality and want this feature to be everything that we've promised. Simply put, we need a little more time to complete the conversion and make sure that its as bug-free as possible. The work is almost completed and we're very excited about it."Doesn't sound tentative to me.Saying we "announced this upgrade would go live with GU53" seems anything but tentative, as does "pushing this upgrade back to GU54, the work is almost completed we need a little more time to complete the conversion."I'm not buying it.

Trellium

12-01-2009, 08:22 PM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm not buying it.</blockquote>And happily, they aren't selling it. It's a free update, it arrives when it is done. I am glad they didn't put it out with issues and I hope Test server has it long enough for people to come over and try it out on their systems aand provide feedback on it.It's a huge process, and it isn't broken now. At the same time, it is one of the most wanted updates to EQ2 in a long time.

Gaige

12-01-2009, 08:27 PM

<cite>Trellium wrote:</cite><blockquote>It's a free update</blockquote>Maybe if this was a console game I paid a one time $60 dollar fee for, however I pay $180 a year for the service EQ2 provides, which means game updates are anything but free, thanks.

Dulissa

12-01-2009, 08:40 PM

So which is it? It doesn't cost you to play or you pay $180 a year?<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite><blockquote>So quit or deal with it. I don't think anyone really cares about your QQ.</blockquote>No thx, it doesn't cost me to play and I get SF for free. Why would I quit? Its worth staying just to see people like you post all [Removed for Content] <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /></blockquote><div><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Trellium wrote:</cite><blockquote>It's a free update</blockquote>Maybe if this was a console game I paid a one time $60 dollar fee for, however I pay $180 a year for the service EQ2 provides, which means game updates are anything but free, thanks.<div></div><div></div><div></div></blockquote></div>

Galithdor

12-01-2009, 08:45 PM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Trellium wrote:</cite><blockquote>It's a free update</blockquote>Maybe if this was a console game I paid a one time $60 dollar fee for, however I pay $180 a year for the service EQ2 provides, which means game updates are anything but free, thanks.</blockquote>Err, for you, even expansions are free, you said so yourself, so which is it...do you pay 180 bucks for it, or nothing? You seem to be the only person making a big deal about it...and the forum is filled with people who complain <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Trellium

12-01-2009, 09:15 PM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Trellium wrote:</cite><blockquote>It's a free update</blockquote>Maybe if this was a console game I paid a one time $60 dollar fee for, however I pay $180 a year for the service EQ2 provides, which means game updates are anything but free, thanks.</blockquote>There is absolutely no extra charge for it. You are billed for expansions and subscriptions. There is no way for you to turn it down, in fact, since you never need to pay. It costs the same if it appeared 2 years ago, or at the FanFaire or at this Christmas or on the expansion launchday, or is never released at all.Hence ... it's about as free as it could be.

Gaige

12-01-2009, 09:34 PM

<cite>Toressa@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>So which is it? It doesn't cost you to play or you pay $180 a year?</blockquote>My mom pays it, so technically she pays $180 a year. I don't see how it changes the statement.

Gaige

12-01-2009, 09:35 PM

<cite>Trellium wrote:</cite><blockquote>You are billed for expansions and subscriptions.</blockquote>What do you think the subscription is for? Its for ongoing updates to the game.

Kiara

12-01-2009, 09:47 PM

Guys... it really doesn't matter WHO pays the fee for Gaige's sub. Nor does it matter that he gets the expac for free because he went to FF like many folks here will be.Please return to the topic of the thread and away from the personal discussion. We're not the national enquirer and if inquiring minds wanna know that badly, drop Gaige a PM <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Thanks!

Rothgar

12-01-2009, 10:00 PM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Jaine@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>a fixed date on the shaders were NEVER given. they were all hopeful tentative dates...</blockquote>Um,"At Fan Faire we announced that this upgrade would go live with Game Update 53 which is just around the corner. Unfortunately I'm here to let you know that we will be pushing this upgrade back to Game Update 54. We always hate to push a feature back after we've announced it but we feel that this is the best thing for the game overall. We are making a new commitment to quality and want this feature to be everything that we've promised. Simply put, we need a little more time to complete the conversion and make sure that its as bug-free as possible. The work is almost completed and we're very excited about it."Doesn't sound tentative to me.Saying we "announced this upgrade would go live with GU53" seems anything but tentative, as does "pushing this upgrade back to GU54, the work is almost completed we need a little more time to complete the conversion."I'm not buying it.</blockquote>Actually at Fan Faire we did announce it as "planned" for GU53 which is still a tentative deadline. We did not commit to a specific date. However, this doesn't excuse us from communicating when we aren't going to hit a tentative deadline.As far as paying for updates, you're technically paying for the chance to connect to our servers and play EQII. The subscription contract doesn't include providing any content via game updates. Regardless, since EQII first launched we have significantly increased the amount of "free" content you get each year without purchasing an expansion. We've done all of this without raising the price of the basic subscription fee.

Dulissa

12-01-2009, 10:24 PM

<cite>Kiara wrote:</cite><blockquote>Guys... it really doesn't matter WHO pays the fee for Gaige's sub. Nor does it matter that he gets the expac for free because he went to FF like many folks here will be.Please return to the topic of the thread and away from the personal discussion. We're not the national enquirer and if inquiring minds wanna know that badly, drop Gaige a PM <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />Thanks!</blockquote>Technically though Kiara, the subject of Gaige's sub is part of the the topic. He's saying that the shaders were a guaranteed thing at FF. An upgrade, if you will, that he's paying for.

Gaige

12-01-2009, 10:26 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>As far as paying for updates, you're technically paying for the chance to connect to our servers and play EQII</blockquote>Technically sure, however we all know that the $1 million plus subscription revenue this game probably generates also helps pay the EQ2 team's labor cost and the EQ2 team exists to keep the game current and updated so players will continue to pay that sub every month. If all you guys did was launch an expansion and then that's that for a year until the next expansion everyone would cancel 3 months after expansion launch and not come back until the next expansion in which case you wouldn't need to have those servers you're charging us to connect to.So sure, technically you're right, however in practice our subs do in fact keep the game content constantly updated as a lure to keep us here, paying the sub.

Gaige

12-01-2009, 10:27 PM

<cite>Toressa@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Technically though Kiara, the subject of Gaige's sub is part of the the topic. He's saying that the shaders were a guaranteed thing at FF. An upgrade, if you will, that he's paying for.</blockquote>It is. Just like Halas. What do you need to start a new character in Halas? An EQ2 account in good standing. The same thing you'll need for Shader 3.0. What does it take to have an EQ2 account in good standing? A paid subscription fee.

Mentin

12-01-2009, 10:40 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>As far as paying for updates, you're technically paying for the chance to connect to our servers and play EQII. The subscription contract doesn't include providing any content via game updates. Regardless, since EQII first launched we have significantly increased the amount of "free" content you get each year without purchasing an expansion. We've done all of this without raising the price of the basic subscription fee.</blockquote>Yes, true.Sony is doing this because it is sound business, not because they feel charitable.* No extra content means people will get bored and leave for other games. Lost revenue.* Raised subscription fee's means Sony will not be competitive and people will leave for cheaper games. Lost revenue.Sony is a business and is here to make money. Nothing wrong or immoral in that. Just don't make it sound like you do it to be nice. No business can keep providing a service if it is not economically sound to do so.Competition is a nice thing, it forces everyone to do their best to perform, else they lose. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

d1anaw

12-02-2009, 01:48 AM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite><blockquote>So quit or deal with it. I don't think anyone really cares about your QQ.</blockquote>No thx, it doesn't cost me to play and I get SF for free. Why would I quit? Its worth staying just to see people like you post all [Removed for Content] <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>Yes, why quit when it's so much more fun to complain incessently? @@

d1anaw

12-02-2009, 01:51 AM

Kulaf

12-02-2009, 05:14 AM

Seriously......don't feed the "dude with over 12k posts".

Raynor

12-02-2009, 06:38 AM

wrong topic, message edited to show nothing <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Gaige

12-02-2009, 01:43 PM

<cite>Kulanae@Blackburrow wrote:</cite><blockquote>Seriously......don't feed the "dude with over 12k posts".</blockquote>In over 5 years. Besides I'm not even close to having the most, people have over 20k on these forums.

Hamervelder

12-02-2009, 01:50 PM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Toressa@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>So which is it? It doesn't cost you to play or you pay $180 a year?</blockquote>My mom pays it, so technically she pays $180 a year. I don't see how it changes the statement.</blockquote>Dude. Seriously? You aren't paying anything. Your mommy is paying for you to connect to Sony's servers. Whether or not Sony releases SM3 or Halas, your mommy isn't paying a penny more for that content. Said updates are delivered to you at no extra charge.

SecretAsparagus

12-02-2009, 01:57 PM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ShinGoku wrote:</cite><blockquote>Lol if any player is actually qualified to completly redesign the rendering aspect of a live MMO program, perhaps you should forward your resume to the devs and ask for a job.Otherwise, cut em some slack, they are doing the best they can.</blockquote>Six month delays aren't okay, even in the MMO industry. They announced the shader revamp in JUNE and have given numerous live dates since then and they've missed every single one. Over half a year in delays with it looking very likely that they won't go live until the expansion as a "selling point" - don't get me wrong I realize everyone will get shaders with or without SF but the point still stands.This is way different than a delay, this is a colossal mistake, but at least Rothgar recognizes it as such. With the move to quarterly GUs you simply can't afford to delay things multiple times or else you end up with nothing to show for your huge Fan Faire panel HALF A YEAR later.I mean it was 8/26 when Rothgar was here on these forums apologizing for Shader 3.0 not hitting GU53 and talking about how they were almost finished and they just needed a little but more time but it was okay because it was only a two month delay and here we are a week out from GU54 and Kiara is saying that, GASP, Shader 3.0 isn't going to make it again.Rothgar also said in that post in August that he doesn't see them pushing Shader 3.0 in a hotfix, implied they'd be tied in with a GU which means with this delay we won't see them until GU55, which is the SF expansion, which is coming out 9 months after Shader 3.0 was shown off at Fan Faire, and not even in the same calendar year.The whole mess just seems poorly handled imo.</blockquote>Nah...not poorly handled at all. How long does something take? As long as it takes to do it right.I'm not sure how something that is free...and not even necessary...can be "late" at all.Imago has been one of the most communitcative devs regarding the work he is doing and providing work in progress reports to the community. Not only that he has shown his competence at the task at hand puplically. If he is holding ti back till it is finished, then I do not get the feeling at all that it is being held back for any reason other than the fact that he is making sure it is going to work at the best possible level.and your point doesn't stand...at all...Shader 3.0 can't be a "selling point" point for Sentinel's Fate when EVERYONE gets it. You know what happens when you log in that day without having bought the expansion? You get Shader 3.0. Crazy how that works...not much of a selling point now is it? Kinda shows that your post is nothing but a /rant because someone who told you they are working on a gift (free stuff) for you is taking them a little longer so that they can make it right for you. Geez...self centered much?Thank you Imago for the work on Shader 3.0...and thank you for making sure it works right.

Gaige

12-02-2009, 01:57 PM

<cite>Elhonas@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Said updates are delivered to you at no extra charge.</blockquote>If you honestly believe that people would pay $14.99 a month for a year between expansions without content additions you're silly.Game updates are a required part of the MMO service and the reason people pay their subs.

Gaige

12-02-2009, 02:02 PM

<cite>SecretAsparagus wrote:</cite><blockquote>Nah...not poorly handled at all. How long does something take? As long as it takes to do it right.I'm not sure how something that is free...and not even necessary...can be "late" at all.Shader 3.0 can't be a "selling point" point for Sentinel's Fate when EVERYONE gets it.</blockquote>Oh I see so your implication is that after Shader 3.0 is released it'll never have to be fixed, patched or updated because the over six month delay will ensure it goes live 100% bug free and remains that way forever. Interesting.Also, it isn't free, but I get a chuckle everytime you guys try to convince yourself it is. How do you think SOE pays Imago's salary? Do you think maybe it comes from the over $1 million dollars per month that EQ2 generates via subscription revenue? Oh, of course not, how silly of me. 100% of that 12 million+ per year pays for the servers. What was I thinking.If you honestly believe that SOE will not highly publicize GU55/SF NOW WITH SHADER 3.0, then you're silly. Of course existing players would get it w/o SF but we all know they're buying SF. New players could get it w/o SF but why would they purchase anything other than SF since it comes with 30 days free and all of the content to get them current with the EQ2 world? Oh, they wouldn't. They'd purchase SF and get the "free" Shader 3.0. I see.

Trellium

12-02-2009, 02:10 PM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>SecretAsparagus wrote:</cite><blockquote>Nah...not poorly handled at all. How long does something take? As long as it takes to do it right.I'm not sure how something that is free...and not even necessary...can be "late" at all.Shader 3.0 can't be a "selling point" point for Sentinel's Fate when EVERYONE gets it.</blockquote>Oh I see so your implication is that after Shader 3.0 is released it'll never have to be fixed, patched or updated because the over six month delay will ensure it goes live 100% bug free and remains that way forever. Interesting.Also, it isn't free, but I get a chuckle everytime you guys try to convince yourself it is. How do you think SOE pays Imago's salary? Do you think maybe it comes from the over $1 million dollars per month that EQ2 generates via subscription revenue? Oh, of course not, how silly of me. 100% of that 12 million+ per year pays for the servers. What was I thinking.If you honestly believe that SOE will not highly publicize GU55/SF NOW WITH SHADER 3.0, then you're silly. Of course existing players would get it w/o SF but we all know they're buying SF. New players could get it w/o SF but why would they purchase anything other than SF since it comes with 30 days free and all of the content to get them current with the EQ2 world? Oh, they wouldn't. They'd purchase SF and get the "free" Shader 3.0. I see.</blockquote>I fail to see why you feel your impatience is warranted. Not one single point you have made in all of your posts changes that.

Arturoz

12-02-2009, 02:13 PM

LOL on the mommy pays for your account card... Its gaige not like its a little known fact he lives with his mom and manages aspects of the lucrative family business DUH..As for the statement of we are paying to connect to the servers. Thus the content updates are not something that sony feels obligated to deliver on in some form of a timely manner since we are not paying directly for that upgrade. What i am getting from that is that the content is not on the servers then?? Hrm then tell me where it is then? How long will sony ride this pony of promotion/pot stirring before they actually deliver? Or did they bite off more then they can chew and just won't admit it?The second that anyone thinks their sub fee is just for a connection to a server or tries to minimalize what we pay for in that by saying such a thing, that is nothing short of a scare tactic a "we will take our ball and go home" stomping your foot on the floor move... poor form sony. Just deliver what you have been getting people all stirred up for. (armchair quarterback moment) What it looks like to me is that possibly the shader upgrade will render some players unable to play the game due to a possible increase in minimum requirements to play? If that is the case i would not want to be in Sony's shoes. They either have to admit they cannot deliver on something, or force people to upgrade personal machines. Neither one of which is a viable option really.. Its much easier to take it on the chin and push the date in hopes of a breakthrough. (/armchair quarterback moment)The game is still fun for me even without the shaders, I am just getting tired of this degredation in dev's ablity to deliver i have been seeing of late. Sorry devs but ur just not cutting it. Need to reach down and make this happen you can do eeeet!!!!

Valdaglerion

12-02-2009, 02:31 PM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Elhonas@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Said updates are delivered to you at no extra charge.</blockquote>If you honestly believe that people would pay $14.99 a month for a year between expansions without content additions you're silly.Game updates are a required part of the MMO service and the reason people pay their subs.</blockquote>And for the sake of argument, what makes you think SOE could not spend the entire 12 or 18 months in development of an expansion and release all of the content at one time to keep you busy until the next one? The holiday events are toggled anyway. I dont see any reason they couldnt if they chose too.I dont think its the right thing to do at this point given it would be a drastic change but saying the updates are required seems short sighted. After all, I have been playing old content for a good majority of the last year. I was done wtith Moors questing in 2 weeks, had T2 armor within 2 weeks, and there is little else in TSO to do really but amazingly enough I have kept my sub for an additional 12 months thus far playing previously developed content.There is sooo much content in this game already that people skip over trying to get to "end game" content. Guess what, there is no "end game" content, its only the "current top tier" content which can and does change every time you reach it. It's the nauture of MMO's. The race for current gear and bragging rights has gotten out of control. What happened to the stories, the characters, the lore, the history, the ability to make your toon constantly better (and gear isnt necessarily what I am talking about. You shouldnt become weak because you stripped off your gear) the . . . fun?

Gaige

12-02-2009, 03:04 PM

<cite>Artemiz@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>And for the sake of argument, what makes you think SOE could not spend the entire 12 or 18 months in development of an expansion and release all of the content at one time to keep you busy until the next one? The holiday events are toggled anyway. I dont see any reason they couldnt if they chose too.</blockquote>The EQ2 team isn't big enough to produce enough content to last an entire year, that's why. Most of the time they can't even finish the content before the expansion launches which is why we see so many content additions anyway.Shader 3.0 = the new skeletal revamp except I honestly do believe that shaders will go live eventually. However the way they were handled the same.NEW SKELETONS SO AWESOME NEW ARMOR ITS GOING TO BE AMAZING YOU CAN SIT IN CHAIRS HOLY CRAP AWESOME BLAH BLAH BLAH woops after working on them for a year we can't do them right nvm our bad.Same thing. Hypehypehypehypehypehype and then disappointment every time a GU launches.

Gaige

12-02-2009, 03:06 PM

<cite>Artemiz@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>There is sooo much content in this game already that people skip over trying to get to "end game" content. </blockquote>That is stereotypical and not always true. I've killed every raid mob except Munzok, did all current/previous heroic content and I've done the majority of the important quests. I'm an 80 master tradeskiller and I'm a max tinkerer. The difference is players with my playstyle finish all that content while its current, so they don't have skipped content to go back to.

Galithdor

12-02-2009, 04:42 PM

Just so you know...they never said the skeletal revamp would allow you to sit in chairs, specifically...and why the double posts? <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Anyways, this thread isnt even really about shader 3.0...this has been off topic for 4 pages!

Gargamel

12-02-2009, 04:45 PM

Looking forward to GU54, and GU55 and SoF and SM3 and everything... timeframes don't bother me.At first I was bummed that the exp was not in nov, but all the way into Feb... then I thought about it and how between thanksgiving and Christmas and new years and all, the usual launch of Nov 14th or so and Jan 2nd, only amounted to like 3 weeks of play time.So now I'm happy for the new Launch date, though end of Jan would be ideal... /shrugAs for GU54, 8th sounds fine to me. There isn't that much anyway... all those quest fixes, the new live event. I'm mostly looking forward to Frostfell which they just need to toggle on.That takes me to one point I had on SM3... it works and is done, we've seen the screenshots. I don't care if it is GU54, GU55 or somewhere in between. So the issue is some performance thing for some people? Just screw em! Seriously though I also read they are in and just need to be 'turned on' to be enabled. If that is the case, then why not give people the option in gfx settings to use SM1 or SM3. The people that have the oldarse computers that can't do SM3 just leave at SM1. The rest of us can get all the graphical goodness.

Valdaglerion

12-02-2009, 06:38 PM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Artemiz@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>There is sooo much content in this game already that people skip over trying to get to "end game" content. </blockquote>That is stereotypical and not always true. I've killed every raid mob except Munzok, did all current/previous heroic content and I've done the majority of the important quests. I'm an 80 master tradeskiller and I'm a max tinkerer. The difference is players with my playstyle finish all that content while its current, so they don't have skipped content to go back to.</blockquote>And that is what makes it subjective. I share your playstyle to a point. I dont cherry pick, I do it all on a single toon. There are over 6000 quests in the game, so whats your current count?

Hamervelder

12-02-2009, 06:49 PM

Gaige

12-02-2009, 08:27 PM

<cite>Artemiz@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>And that is what makes it subjective. I share your playstyle to a point. I dont cherry pick, I do it all on a single toon. There are over 6000 quests in the game, so whats your current count?</blockquote>1,100. However all of the major ones I've completed. I generally hate questing and try not to do it unless its completely necessary.

Gaige

12-02-2009, 08:31 PM

<cite>Elhonas@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Here you go again, confusing your opinion with objective truth. Game updates are not required. They're free, above and beyond what you pay for. </blockquote>Right. I'm sure that's true. SOE should stop doing updates between expansions and see how well their already small sub numbers fare against WoW and every single other MMO that does content updates on a regular basis.MMO players pay the subscription fee not only for ACCESS to the gameworld but also for that gameworld to be constantly maintained and updated, which is why the games are "worth" more than just the box costs.My opinion represents the only one I care about, tbh.

Kiara

12-02-2009, 08:48 PM

NOTE!!!I'm a spazz and got my days wrong. My deepest apologies. I told you the 8th when the actual date is the 9th.We do our updates on Tuesday, with few exceptions, so the wrong date stuck in my head.Still, next week. Dec 9th.I'll be sure to update you if there's a delay in the date (other than me being confused <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />).Thanks all!

Avianna

12-02-2009, 08:57 PM

<cite>Kiara wrote:</cite><blockquote>NOTE!!!I'm a spazz and got my days wrong. My deepest apologies. I told you the 8th when the actual date is the 9th.We do our updates on Tuesday, with few exceptions, so the wrong date stuck in my head.Still, next week. Dec 9th.I'll be sure to update you if there's a delay in the date (other than me being confused <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" />).Thanks all!</blockquote>LOL, You are so awsome and thanks for keeping us up to date (even when it's bad news) <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Vraeth

12-02-2009, 09:42 PM

<cite>Kiara wrote:</cite><blockquote>NOTE!!!I'm a spazz and got my days wrong. My deepest apologies. I told you the 8th when the actual date is the 9th.We do our updates on Tuesday, with few exceptions, so the wrong date stuck in my head.Still, next week. Dec 9th.I'll be sure to update you if there's a delay in the date (other than me being confused <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" />).Thanks all!</blockquote>so just to make sure, is this another example of the exceptions then?

Kiara

12-03-2009, 12:02 AM

Yes this is one of the exceptions, which was why I was so convinced it was tuesday <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Also, guys. No more discussion about Gaige's sub, kk? Let it go.

Hamervelder

12-03-2009, 03:04 AM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Elhonas@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Here you go again, confusing your opinion with objective truth. Game updates are not required. They're free, above and beyond what you pay for. </blockquote>Right. I'm sure that's true. SOE should stop doing updates between expansions and see how well their already small sub numbers fare against WoW and every single other MMO that does content updates on a regular basis.MMO players pay the subscription fee not only for ACCESS to the gameworld but also for that gameworld to be constantly maintained and updated, which is why the games are "worth" more than just the box costs.My opinion represents the only one I care about, tbh.</blockquote>Yes, that's obvious. Which is probably why very few other people care what you think.

Gargamel

12-03-2009, 03:13 AM

8th, 9th... its no biggie. Same week anyways, and I think most people that play on thursday or weekends only really care about week it goes live.Still... I have 17 vacation days to burn this year and I did plan on taking off a day next week just for the heck of it, thanks for letting me know about the date change so at least I know to take w/r/f and not Tuesday. I appreciate the communication.

d1anaw

12-03-2009, 03:46 AM

<cite>Kiara wrote:</cite><blockquote>NOTE!!!I'm a spazz and got my days wrong. My deepest apologies. I told you the 8th when the actual date is the 9th.We do our updates on Tuesday, with few exceptions, so the wrong date stuck in my head.Still, next week. Dec 9th.I'll be sure to update you if there's a delay in the date (other than me being confused <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" />).Thanks all!</blockquote>So is Frostfell coming online at the same time?

Rock_Mansions

12-13-2009, 08:30 AM

"I'm a spazz" ... ? Not so great to see an official Official using language like this... showing my age, but when did 'spazz' come back into common useage? - thought it had thankfully died out of the yoof argot long since...

Trellium

12-13-2009, 12:17 PM

<cite>Rock_Mansions wrote:</cite><blockquote>"I'm a spazz" ... ? Not so great to see an official Official using language like this... showing my age, but when did 'spazz' come back into common useage? - thought it had thankfully died out of the yoof argot long since...</blockquote>Oh please. Have you really run out of trivial things to complain about?

Rock_Mansions

12-13-2009, 01:14 PM

umm, probably not tbh. but you reckon that's trivial? Personally, I don't like terms of abuse like 'spazz' or 'spastic', whether used casually (?) or not, probably because I have a profoundly autistic nephew, and have started to see that term used in the same way, which is hardly a step forward. But many apologies for being too PC, or trivial, or whatever. I should remember the age-group games like this are aimed at, and hold my tongue.

Trellium

12-13-2009, 01:43 PM

<cite>Rock_Mansions wrote:</cite><blockquote>umm, probably not tbh. but you reckon that's trivial? Personally, I don't like terms of abuse like 'spazz' or 'spastic', whether used casually (?) or not, probably because I have a profoundly autistic nephew, and have started to see that term used in the same way, which is hardly a step forward. But many apologies for being too PC, or trivial, or whatever. I should remember the age-group games like this are aimed at, and hold my tongue.</blockquote>It was meant as self humor. Yes, absolutely without any doubt I think its a totally and completely trivial complaint. She made a joke about herself, get over it. Its a flipping expression, get over it. I have aspurgers, and I don't take any offense at her words, so why should you?This absurd "hold my tongue" is more rubbish. How about growing a sense of humor, and recognizing this is a GAME played for fun. She made a JOKE about HERSELF. She didn't call anyone else names. Why is this complex for you?Geeze, let it go. You obviously have some axe to grnd and decided this was somehow a great target. Going to go after her job next too, perhaps? Where does it end?

Rock_Mansions

12-13-2009, 04:29 PM

Trellium, mate - calm down. And please don't aggressively attribute motives to me which aren't mine. My first comment, while serious, was hardly a rant (hence the 'yoof argot' bit). Unlike your replies it seems to me. Upon reflection, I readily accept that it's futile to try and make a point such as my original one on an internet gaming forum such as this; although, certainly, I wish it wasn't. Anyway, thanks for your help earlier on those couple of threads/queries of mine.

Trellium

12-13-2009, 06:00 PM

<cite>Rock_Mansions wrote:</cite><blockquote> Upon reflection, I readily accept that it's futile to try and make a point such as my original one on an internet gaming forum such as this; although, certainly, I wish it wasn't. </blockquote>Well, I just don't see why you would derail the thread over this or why you couldn't have taken it up with her directly instead of posting about it openly. That just makes people post about political correctness in general and the whole thing goes to heck.You make it sound like there is an maturity issue that prevents you from having the discussion. I am pointing out that this is a tech thread and it would never really be the place to discuss it. If you don't like it take it up with her or management. Too many times this hyper sensitivity to minor sayings spirals way out of control.Really, anything said by anyone can be taken as an offense somehow.