Thumore D'armer [MASSIVE SPOILER] [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

Kriptini

11-24-2009, 06:47 PM

The dashing Thumore D'armer seen in today's festivities is none other than Kyrafyrm. Grats everyone, you just assisted in bringing the most deadly force in the known universe back to Norrath. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />

Cusashorn

11-24-2009, 06:50 PM

LOLWHUT?Seriously. Please explain.

Kriptini

11-24-2009, 06:56 PM

Just do the quest. The guy talks about how he's been asleep and can't wake up, for starters. Kyrafyrm is known as the Sleeper. And at the end of the quest he reveals that he's not who he appears to be, and he can "finally return to his home." On top of this, once you leave the dream world, all the NPC's used in the quest, after being hailed again, report that they have no clue who Thumore is and never knew him in the first place. Suspicious? I think so.

Taurus_WD

11-24-2009, 07:11 PM

Well, that wouldn't surprise me, and I can see how you can come to that conclusion, but I guess I'd be shocked if that really was Kerafym.Spoiler Alert for those that can't hop on the live servers right now (and a mini quest walkthrough).You get a quest from Milupet Cogsory near the T1 guild hall in NQ, she tells you to seek out Drakin or Thumore, I can't remember which, but initially you look for Drakin. Drakin tells you Thumore is in the building behind him (the one with the city merchants and a forge outside). Inside you'll see a man asleep on the floor, and two investigators with a lead investigator Dalhya Felshire.Drakin basically says the party can't begin without Thurmore, and then Dalhya says that everyone that touches Thurmore falls asleep. You volunteer to touch him, and go into a dream world where you talk to Thurmore. He asks that you collect memories from around Norrath, you assume they're his memories. You then exit the dream world, and take a portal next to his sleeping body to each of the instances, each time it takes you to a different expansion zone in chronological order. Each time you collect a green shiny from the zone, and return to Thurmore and give him the shard. You give him all the shards, and he says something cryptic, lets you leave the dream state and then no one remembers Thurmore from the quests. Everyone you talk to has never heard from him.You also get the title "the Dream Hero" from the quest.Here's the final Dialogue (typos may be mine since I'm just re-typing it):Thurmore D'armer says to you, "I have been eagerly awaiting your return. Were you able to find the last shard?"You say to Thurmore D'armer, "I belive I was. Is this what you were looking for?"Thumore D'armer says to you, "You have done a tremendous service. Not just to me, but quite possibly to all of Norrath as well. Now that I have all of the shards of my lost self, I can finally break free of this world, and return to the world I once called home."You say to Thumore D'armer, "You mean to the Heroes' Festival? I know many people were waiting for you."Thumore D'armer says to you, "No... I mean return to the memories and dreams of all across Norrath, return to my place I gave up so long ago. The memoreis and dreams of Norrath have helped to hold my shattered self until you came to help me gather those shards once again. Now, I am finally whole."You say to Thumore D'armer, "Wait... those weren't your dreams? Just who are you?" Thumore D'armer says to you, "You will know me once again. Now awaken, my friend. Your service will not be forgotten."You say to Thumore D'armer, "You leave me with many questions, but I will take my leave for now. Farewell to you."That's the final dialogue, personally I don't think it's Kerafym, even though you might get that impression because everyone falls asleep around him, and he's known as "The Sleeper". To me, it'd be more like whatever EQ2's version of the Sandman is, or some other player that is involved in the world of dreams. Actually if I was going to guess anyone it would be Erollosi Marr, to be completed with the Erollosi day in February. If Mith Marr has freed her, then she was probably nothing but shards spread throughout Norrath, and she needs to be recombined in order to come back in her Goddess form. Which will probably involve the re-introduction of Halas, seeing as how I think the sleeping person was a Barbarian male (although I can't be sure).

denmom

11-24-2009, 07:29 PM

"Live server"....Test server?Just want to make sure I'm understanding which server is meant.Thanks in advance.

Taurus_WD

11-24-2009, 07:29 PM

Live, I don't play on test. =/

Cusashorn

11-24-2009, 07:32 PM

He's known as "The Sleeper" because he was magically forced to sleep for eternity. His "Sleeping" had no actual impact on anyone around him, considering that nobody could physically get close to his body to touch him and fall asleep themselves due to the barrier the guardians put up."The Sleeper" has long since been a name thrown away. He's now and forever more "The Awakened"... at least until we kill him.I can't access the game right now. i don't know when i will be allowed too, but I can only hope these quests will last at least for the rest of the week. I hope to have my computer back up and running in a few days.

Mirander_1

11-24-2009, 07:33 PM

<cite>Acuza@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Here's the final Dialogue (typos may be mine since I'm just re-typing it):Thurmore D'armer says to you, "I have been eagerly awaiting your return. Were you able to find the last shard?"You say to Thurmore D'armer, "I belive I was. Is this what you were looking for?"Thumore D'armer says to you, "You have done a tremendous service. Not just to me, but quite possibly to all of Norrath as well. Now that I have all of the shards of my lost self, I can finally break free of this world, and return to the world I once called home."You say to Thumore D'armer, "You mean to the Heroes' Festival? I know many people were waiting for you."Thumore D'armer says to you, "No... I mean return to the memories and dreams of all across Norrath, return to my place I gave up so long ago. The memoreis and dreams of Norrath have helped to hold my shattered self until you came to help me gather those shards once again. Now, I am finally whole."You say to Thumore D'armer, "Wait... those weren't your dreams? Just who are you?" Thumore D'armer says to you, "You will know me once again. Now awaken, my friend. Your service will not be forgotten."You say to Thumore D'armer, "You leave me with many questions, but I will take my leave for now. Farewell to you."</blockquote>Sounds like Morrel Thule to me.

Kriptini

11-24-2009, 07:39 PM

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>He's known as "The Sleeper" because he was magically forced to sleep for eternity. His "Sleeping" had no actual impact on anyone around him, considering that nobody could physically get close to his body to touch him and fall asleep themselves due to the barrier the guardians put up.</blockquote>Kyrafyrm is a pretty strong dragon tbh. I wouldn't be surprised if he could pull crazy hat tricks.

Kriptini

11-24-2009, 07:40 PM

<cite>Mirander@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sounds like Morrel Thule to me.</blockquote>Nope, you're wrong.

Kriptini

11-24-2009, 07:41 PM

<cite>Mirander@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sounds like Morrel Thule to me.</blockquote>Nope, you're wrong.

Taurus_WD

11-24-2009, 07:42 PM

Playing the anagram game, I can see at least one anagram that seems to make sense.The Dream Rumor? or The Rumor Dream.

Cusashorn

11-24-2009, 07:44 PM

<cite>Kriptini@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Mirander@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sounds like Morrel Thule to me.</blockquote>Nope, you're wrong.</blockquote>Wow, not even I am that blunt and arrogant. You should at least back yourself up with your claims that he is wrong. it seems you don't have any evidence to prove your theory yourself.

Thoronve

11-24-2009, 07:49 PM

<cite>Acuza@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Playing the anagram game, I can see at least one anagram that seems to make sense.The Dream Rumor? or The Rumor Dream.</blockquote>...or 'More Thru Dream'? (given he says we'll meet again)I can also see both Marr and Theer in there... 'Theer Do Um Marr'??-Thoronve-

Kriptini

11-24-2009, 08:07 PM

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wow, not even I am that blunt and arrogant. You should at least back yourself up with your claims that he is wrong. it seems you don't have any evidence to prove your theory yourself.</blockquote>Scroll back up and read the posts I've already made.And it's not like the guy explained how the quote was relevant to Morrel Thule at all.

Cusashorn

11-24-2009, 08:09 PM

<cite>Kriptini@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wow, not even I am that blunt and arrogant. You should at least back yourself up with your claims that he is wrong. it seems you don't have any evidence to prove your theory yourself.</blockquote>Scroll back up and read the posts I've already made.And it's not like the guy explained how the quote was relevant to Morrel Thule at all.</blockquote>I've read all your posts. You have no evidence that proves it's Kerafyrm. Just remember. Kerafyrm has been "The Awakened" for the last 500 years. He was only known as "The Sleeper" when he was forcefully kept asleep due to Dragon magics. He hasn't been put back to sleep since he was woken up.

Kriptini

11-24-2009, 08:10 PM

<cite>Acuza@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>To me, it'd be more like whatever EQ2's version of the Sandman is, or some other player that is involved in the world of dreams. Actually if I was going to guess anyone it would be Erollosi Marr, to be completed with the Erollosi day in February. If Mith Marr has freed her, then she was probably nothing but shards spread throughout Norrath, and she needs to be recombined in order to come back in her Goddess form. Which will probably involve the re-introduction of Halas, seeing as how I think the sleeping person was a Barbarian male (although I can't be sure).</blockquote>Erollisi Marr is completely and utterly dead. In the Shard of Love, Marr even talks about how she is completely and utterly dead. The devs have washed their hands with Erollisi.

Cusashorn

11-24-2009, 08:12 PM

<cite>Kriptini@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Acuza@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>To me, it'd be more like whatever EQ2's version of the Sandman is, or some other player that is involved in the world of dreams. Actually if I was going to guess anyone it would be Erollosi Marr, to be completed with the Erollosi day in February. If Mith Marr has freed her, then she was probably nothing but shards spread throughout Norrath, and she needs to be recombined in order to come back in her Goddess form. Which will probably involve the re-introduction of Halas, seeing as how I think the sleeping person was a Barbarian male (although I can't be sure).</blockquote>Erollisi Marr is completely and utterly dead. In the Shard of Love, Marr even talks about how she is completely and utterly dead. The devs have washed their hands with Erollisi.</blockquote>The developers have also stated that the Shard of Love is only the BEGINNING of the story, and even Mithanial Marr himself inside the zone hints that it is possible for her to be reborn and return.

Kriptini

11-24-2009, 08:13 PM

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>I've read all your posts. You have no evidence that proves it's Kerafyrm.</blockquote><cite>Kriptini@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just do the quest. The guy talks about how he's been asleep and can't wake up, for starters. Kyrafyrm is known as the Sleeper. And at the end of the quest he reveals that he's not who he appears to be, and he can "finally return to his home." On top of this, once you leave the dream world, all the NPC's used in the quest, after being hailed again, report that they have no clue who Thumore is and never knew him in the first place. Suspicious? I think so.</blockquote>O rly? I think I did a bit better than quoting a post and saying, "Morrel Thule."<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just remember. Kerafyrm has been "The Awakened" for the last 500 years. He was only known as "The Sleeper" when he was forcefully kept asleep due to Dragon magics. He hasn't been put back to sleep since he was woken up.</blockquote>Was he ever awakened in the world of EQ2, or only awakened in the world of EQ1? Recall the book of Zebuxoruuk. Events that have taken place in EQ1 may not have taken place yet in EQ2.

Kriptini

11-24-2009, 08:14 PM

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>The developers have also stated that the Shard of Love is only the BEGINNING of the story, and even Mithanial Marr himself inside the zone hints that it is possible for her to be reborn and return.</blockquote>All these contradictions remind me of the Bible. /sigh

Taurus_WD

11-24-2009, 08:19 PM

With one zone per expansion there may be some rhyme or reason to the chosen zones. I don't know the names of all of them, but someone else can hopefully fill it in.Expansion - ZoneDesert of Flames - Tower of the Moon in Maj'DulKingdom of Sky - Halls of FateEchoes of Faydwer - Estate of UnrestRuins of Kunark - Karnor's CastleThe Shadow Odyssey - ? (I've never been to the zone before)As far as general critique of the quest goes, I really wish that I didn't have to zone in to NQ then out to the appropriate zone. As it is, I actually went to Maj'Dul and the tower of the moon the first time I went through the quest.

Cusashorn

11-24-2009, 08:21 PM

<cite>Kriptini@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>I've read all your posts. You have no evidence that proves it's Kerafyrm.</blockquote><cite>Kriptini@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just do the quest. The guy talks about how he's been asleep and can't wake up, for starters. Kyrafyrm is known as the Sleeper. And at the end of the quest he reveals that he's not who he appears to be, and he can "finally return to his home." On top of this, once you leave the dream world, all the NPC's used in the quest, after being hailed again, report that they have no clue who Thumore is and never knew him in the first place. Suspicious? I think so.</blockquote>O rly? I think I did a bit better than quoting a post and saying, "Morrel Thule."<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just remember. Kerafyrm has been "The Awakened" for the last 500 years. He was only known as "The Sleeper" when he was forcefully kept asleep due to Dragon magics. He hasn't been put back to sleep since he was woken up.</blockquote>Was he ever awakened in the world of EQ2, or only awakened in the world of EQ1? Recall the book of Zebuxoruuk. Events that have taken place in EQ1 may not have taken place yet in EQ2.</blockquote>Did you even do any of the research when you started playing this game?That timeline split took place during the Planes of Power expansion pack in EQlive... 2 expansions *AFTER* Kerafyrm was woken up in the Velious expansion. They even revamped the city of Skyshrine on Velious to reflect that he had woken up back before Planes of Power was released.Furthermore, this game is expressly stated as taking place 500 years A.K... AFTER KERAFYRM, meaning after he was woken up, rampaged through the Temple of Veeshan, and left for places unknown. His very awakening heralded a new Calender system.Even more than that, the entire Qeynos Claymore questline in the Kingdom of Sky expansion talks about how all the dragons living up there chose to follow Kerafyrm after he came to them and told them he could help them with thier problems. He promised Harla Dar that he could bring back her husband and son. A false promise, but one he made after he woke up. He is a dragon who wants to destroy all of dragon-kind and then beyond that even still. Why would he ever come to Qeynos and Freeport and ask us to help him? He doesn't need help in razing both cities to the ground in mere seconds!Erollisi's storyline isn't a contradiction to anything the developers have said either. They said that her death was only the beginning of her story.

Kriptini

11-24-2009, 08:22 PM

<cite>Acuza@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>The Shadow Odyssey - ? (I've never been to the zone before)</blockquote>That's Palace of Ferzhul/Palace of the Ancient One. I don't think there's any reason behind picking that place, other than SoE likes to recycle that zone time and again for anything void related. I nearly cried tears of happiness when I learned that Munzok's would be modeled after Anchor of Bazzul rather than recycling Ferzhul yet again.

Triasa

11-24-2009, 08:23 PM

Hmmm... I was wondering if Kerafyrm would be somehow entering the story, now that we're headed to Odus:<cite>Vhalen wrote:</cite><blockquote><div>The Quellithulians and the Awakened, what an odd alliance. To better understand the alliance you would have to walk the palaces of an island continent or know the master of the spires. As for the excavated resources, they have many uses. </div></blockquote>From <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=15&topic_id=187028" target="_blank">link</a>

Kriptini

11-24-2009, 08:25 PM

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>He doesn't need help in razing both cities to the ground in mere seconds!Erollisi's storyline isn't a contradiction to anything the developers have said either. They said that her death was only the beginning of her story.</blockquote>Then why hasn't he done it already?"The beginning of her story" probably means that we'll go back and find out why she was killed, etc. Doesn't promise that she will be revived.

Cusashorn

11-24-2009, 08:30 PM

<cite>Kriptini@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>He doesn't need help in razing both cities to the ground in mere seconds!Erollisi's storyline isn't a contradiction to anything the developers have said either. They said that her death was only the beginning of her story.</blockquote>Then why hasn't he done it already?"The beginning of her story" probably means that we'll go back and find out why she was killed, etc. Doesn't promise that she will be revived.</blockquote>With the way we've been lead up these last few years as to what has happened to her, her revival will be inevitable. You don't just kill a god, let the players find out that she is dead by seeing her body, learning that Innoruuk was the one responsible for causing her death, and just leave it at that.There has never been any story about Erollisi fighting against Innoruuk in the past. You don't just introduce a story and say it all happened and that one side won. If you do, you don't allow the players to get involved in the story and still decide that the evil god who won will still win.No, you start investigating how to bring her back and eventually do so. She was a major diety in EQlive and has always had a huge fanbase following for roleplay reasons and whatnot. They wouldn't just write a story out of the blue that is so shallow as to just give Innoruuk his victory without there being any conflict in obtaining it.

Xalmat

11-24-2009, 08:36 PM

Kerafyrm was awakened during Velious, which occured well within EQ2 canon.He was put back to sleep in the EQ1 expansion Secrets of Faydwer, but that expansion falls well outside the EQ2 timeline. For all we know in this time line, he's either dead or he's hiding.

Taurus_WD

11-24-2009, 08:40 PM

Since I'm going through the quest again, would anyone like me to post the entire transcript? I'm thinking mainly for the people that can't access the game in their near future.

Xalmat

11-24-2009, 08:43 PM

<cite>Acuza@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Since I'm going through the quest again, would anyone like me to post the entire transcript? I'm thinking mainly for the people that can't access the game in their near future.</blockquote>I would love it!

Homeskillet

11-24-2009, 08:43 PM

Actually, just going through this quest and reading what I have read here...Morrel Thule seems to make more sense than anything. He seems benevolent, somewhat, a part of Norrath from before. The way he influences people to believe in him and draws them into dreams...I mean Morrel Thule was the demigod of Dreams was he not? Counterpart to his sister Terris Thule.

Cusashorn

11-24-2009, 08:46 PM

<cite>Homeskillet wrote:</cite><blockquote>Actually, just going through this quest and reading what I have read here...Morrel Thule seems to make more sense than anything.</blockquote>I'm reading that you get "The Dream Hero" as a title from the quest. Morrell Thule is the God of Dreams, so this makes sense to me. He's not the type to discriminate against good or evil, but Kerafyrm is the type to flat out refuse all attempts at mortals helping him.

Kriptini

11-24-2009, 08:47 PM

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>With the way we've been lead up these last few years as to what has happened to her, her revival will be inevitable. You don't just kill a god, let the players find out that she is dead by seeing her body, learning that Innoruuk was the one responsible for causing her death, and just leave it at that.There has never been any story about Erollisi fighting against Innoruuk in the past. You don't just introduce a story and say it all happened and that one side won. If you do, you don't allow the players to get involved in the story and still decide that the evil god who won will still win.No, you start investigating how to bring her back and eventually do so. She was a major diety in EQlive and has always had a huge fanbase following for roleplay reasons and whatnot. They wouldn't just write a story out of the blue that is so shallow as to just give Innoruuk his victory without there being any conflict in obtaining it.</blockquote>Or, maybe it's not as we thought. Maybe we can't bring her back, but we can get revenge by going over to Innoruuk and smacking him around. We can learn his motives, his final plot, and put an end to it in the name of Erollisi. Her being dead is huge, it'll drive her followers to really move and do something. But if she comes back as you said, everything will go back to normal. /yawnWould someone like to post any known lore on Morrel Thule, so we can look at it all at once?

Meirril

11-24-2009, 08:48 PM

<cite>Kriptini@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Mirander@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sounds like Morrel Thule to me.</blockquote>Nope, you're wrong.</blockquote>Actually this totally sounds like Morrel Thule, the god of dreams. While the rest of the Thule family are firmly in the "bad stuff" category (you wouldn't want to meet his father, or sister) Morrel himself is rather neutral. Having him return in the next exapsion as a worshipable diety should be fun.

Kriptini

11-24-2009, 08:52 PM

Speculating the amount of evidence, it could go either way at this point. The guy was pretty nice and the God of Dreams, which leads to Morrel Thule, but he was also associated with "sleep" and very cunning at using you to get what he wanted, as we've seen Kyrafyrm do with some of the other dragons.

Meirril

11-24-2009, 08:58 PM

<cite>Kriptini@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>Speculating the amount of evidence, it could go either way at this point. The guy was pretty nice and the God of Dreams, which leads to Morrel Thule, but he was also associated with "sleep" and very cunning at using you to get what he wanted, as we've seen Kyrafyrm do with some of the other dragons.</blockquote>Morrel Thule is best known for stealing Mithanial Marr's stolen gift of life away from Cazic and Innoruuk. He was able to scatter half of it in the Innothule swamps and the other half he desposited in Erollisi Marr through her dreams. This guy is sly. Its perectly believeable that he would trick players into helping him without revealing either his true intentions or identity. Indeed, if Morrel Thule was brought low enough, he might not even realize who he really is until the players helped him restore his own memories by gathering fragments of dreams.

Cusashorn

11-24-2009, 09:02 PM

<cite>Kriptini@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>Would someone like to post any known lore on Morrel Thule, so we can look at it all at once?</blockquote>Morrell Thule is the God of Dreams. The Black Sheep of the Thule family, because he is actually Neutral-Good compared to Cazic and Terris, who are both strictly evil.Many aeons ago, Cazic and Terris Thule actually managed to trap Mithanial Marr. They tortured him non-stop, with full intention of corrupting him to join thier side. If they could not do that, then killing him would suffice.They killed him. Much as how Erollisi herself is dead right now, they killed Mithanial back then. However, before he died, Morrell Thule stepped in to help him. He split his spirit into two forms and sent them off to Norrath.The first half of his spirit inhabited the frogs of Innothule Swamp. They evolved into the original Frogloks and kicked the Trolls out of their own city fortress of Guk. These same frogloks would later again be transformed by Mithanial Marr, but that is another story.The 2nd half was physically impregnated into his sister Erollisi, who in her young existance, was walking around Norrath and enjoying the hospitality of the high elves in Felwithe.As incestuous as it sounds, she gave birth to the Barbarians, who in time would grow into thier own race and culture. During a time of need, the Barbarians had been called to help out the Frogloks down inInnothule Swamp. When the two races met, both halfs of Mithanial Marr's spirit formed back together and he was reborn.There isn't too much more that is known about Morrell Thule, but we know he is the God of Dreams, he is not well favored by his father or sister, and despite being good in morality, does not discriminate against good or evil mortals.

Kamimura

11-24-2009, 09:02 PM

<cite>Acuza@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>seeing as how I think the sleeping person was a Barbarian male (although I can't be sure).</blockquote>No, he's a human, not a barbarian. I can't really see this being about Erollisi, sure there's always a posibility, but it seems unlikely and nothing in the quest really points to that. Kerafyrm, maybe, but that also seems unlikely.. Morrel was the first to come to mind when I ran the quest, to be honest. However, it's not like there's a decent amount of evidence to really point to anything so far.<h1></h1>

Homeskillet

11-24-2009, 09:03 PM

<cite>Kriptini@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>Speculating the amount of evidence, it could go either way at this point. The guy was pretty nice and the God of Dreams, which leads to Morrel Thule, but he was also associated with "sleep" and very cunning at using you to get what he wanted, as we've seen Kyrafyrm do with some of the other dragons.</blockquote>Because the God of Dreams has nothing to do with sleep.Also, it may be a stretch but "D'armer" could be a play on words, as it is rather close to the word "dormir", which in Spanish and French means sleep. So...Morrel Thule sleeps? I dunno, plausible.

Kriptini

11-24-2009, 09:05 PM

The guy states that the memories are not his, but memories of other people. Sounds like it very well could be Morrell Thule. Darn. And I wanted to fight a challenging non-zombie Dragon for once.

Kriptini

11-24-2009, 09:10 PM

<cite>Homeskillet wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kriptini@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>Speculating the amount of evidence, it could go either way at this point. The guy was pretty nice and the God of Dreams, which leads to Morrel Thule, but he was also associated with "sleep" and very cunning at using you to get what he wanted, as we've seen Kyrafyrm do with some of the other dragons.</blockquote>Because the God of Dreams has nothing to do with sleep.Also, it may be a stretch but "D'armer" could be a play on words, as it is rather close to the word "dormir", which in Spanish and French means sleep. So...Morrel Thule sleeps? I dunno, plausible.</blockquote>"The Sleeper" having something to do with sleep? No way...Your statement is about as valid as the one I just made.

Homeskillet

11-24-2009, 09:18 PM

<cite>Kriptini@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Homeskillet wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kriptini@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>Speculating the amount of evidence, it could go either way at this point. The guy was pretty nice and the God of Dreams, which leads to Morrel Thule, but he was also associated with "sleep" and very cunning at using you to get what he wanted, as we've seen Kyrafyrm do with some of the other dragons.</blockquote>Because the God of Dreams has nothing to do with sleep.Also, it may be a stretch but "D'armer" could be a play on words, as it is rather close to the word "dormir", which in Spanish and French means sleep. So...Morrel Thule sleeps? I dunno, plausible.</blockquote>"The Sleeper" having something to do with sleep? No way...Your statement is about as valid as the one I just made.</blockquote>No, not really, because by that argument it could mean anyone, because *gasp* every mortal sleeps too! And...they have hair, and this guy has hair right?!Rather, a man who seems to inspire beliefs and thoughts in others through dreams, that exists in a realm of slumber and has had shards of himself scattered about, relates rather closely to Morrell Thule. Having a shard of himself in a "Memory of Sky"? I believe it said somewhere in lore that Veeshan slumbered in a part of the Plane of Sky that only Morrel Thule could access, I may be wrong on that but I am fairly sure.Kerafyrm on the otherhand was a xenophobic psychopath who went into a murderous blood rage on his own kind over the firm belief that those that came after the dragon should be exterminated from the holy ground marked for Dragonkind. I sincerely doubt he would be this benign. Also, as others have said, Kerafyrm awakened, he has a sexy cult in the remnents of the Plane of Sky and even got many of the dragons on Norrath from both Velious and Kunark to follow in lockstep behind him by leading this cult.

Homeskillet

11-24-2009, 09:23 PM

More evidence to support the Morrell Thule theory... a memory lost within a maze born of madness, didn't the Plane of Nightmares have a maze? It is also the hedge maze in Unrest specifically cursed by another member of the Thule family...the hedge is guarded by Satyrs, a being of which Morrel Thule shared some similarities with as far as how he often appeared.

Kriptini

11-24-2009, 09:25 PM

<cite>Homeskillet wrote:</cite><blockquote>Rather, a man who seems to inspire beliefs and thoughts in others through dreams, that exists in a realm of slumber and has had shards of himself scattered about, relates rather closely to Morrell Thule. Having a shard of himself in a "Memory of Sky"? I believe it said somewhere in lore that Veeshan slumbered in a part of the Plane of Sky that only Morrel Thule could access, I may be wrong on that but I am fairly sure.</blockquote>When you're less sarcastic about it, your arguments are much more valid.<cite>Homeskillet wrote:</cite><blockquote>Kerafyrm on the otherhand was a xenophobic psychopath who went into a murderous blood rage on his own kind over the firm belief that those that came after the dragon should be exterminated from the holy ground marked for Dragonkind. I sincerely doubt he would be this benign. Also, as others have said, Kerafyrm awakened, he has a sexy cult in the remnents of the Plane of Sky and even got many of the dragons on Norrath from both Velious and Kunark to follow in lockstep behind him by leading this cult.</blockquote>We've been thrown curveballs before. Though at this point in time, it's looking like a 99% chance of bein Morrell. Unless of course, we're forgetting someone.

Kriptini

11-24-2009, 09:25 PM

<cite>Homeskillet wrote:</cite><blockquote>More evidence to support the Morrell Thule theory...didn't the Plane of Nightmares have a maze? It is also the hedge maze in Unrest specifically cursed by another member of the Thule family...the hedge is guarded by Satyrs, a being of which Morrel Thule shared some similarities with as far as how he often appeared.</blockquote>And as it turns out, the memory fragment wasn't even in the hedge maze.

Homeskillet

11-24-2009, 09:34 PM

Well, that was honestly just a lame reaching connection like you were making with the whole Sleeper thing.The real connection is that Unrest itself is cursed primarily due to the intervention of Morrell's father, Cazic Thule. The entire place has a history of murder and madness.Also, touching back on "A Memory of Sky", depending on how much EQ2 devs follow it, EQ Atlas did indeed mention a rumor that Veeshan "lies in indefinite slumber, her consciousness and essence residing safely in the realm of dreams govered by the benevolent deity, Morrell-Thule."

Taurus_WD

11-24-2009, 09:36 PM

Sorry, I missed the quest text from the first person. So, this starts with me hailing Drakin Hammerheart.You say, "Hail, Drakin Hammerheart"Drakin Hammerheart says to you, "Ah, greetings! Now, I hate to seem rude, but I need to ask you not to distract me... I have some thinking to do."You say to Drakin Hammerheart, "Actually, Drakin, I am looking for you. I believe you were searching for someone named Thumore?"Drakin Hammerheart says to you, "Ah, you are correct! You must be searching for him as well, then? Of course you are. What would the Heroes' Festival be without him here? Well, the good news is, I've found him!"You say to Drakin Hammerheart, "That is good news! Where is he now? Is he planning to join in the festivities now?"Drakin Hammerheart says to you, "Well, no. Not exactly. It seems that our favorite hero has... well... fallen asleep."You say to Drakin Hammerheart, "Wait... what? He's asleep? Why not rouse him? It seems a lot of people are waiting for him out there."Drakin Hammerheart says to you, "I would, but a few mages appear to be guarding him. They were quite adamant about not waking him or even touching him. I have been thinking of a way that maybe I could sneak around them, but they keep thwarting my efforts!"You say to Drakin Hammerheart, "So, just so I'm clear - he's asleep, and some wizards won't let you wake him up? Why?"Drakin Hammerheart says to you, "They didn't really say. I just know they ushered me out before I could say too much."You say to Drakin Hammerheart, "Hmm. Maybe I'll go check this out for myself, then. Where are they at?"Drakin Hammerheart says to you, "They're through this door right here. Be careful, though -- like I said, they don't like people in there."You say to Drakin Hammerheart, "Thanks for the warning. Farewell for now, Drakin."After that I moved inside the building, and I've included both the results of hailing the investigators and Dalhya.You say, "Hail, An investigator"an investigator says, "Waking the sleeping one is dangerous! Keep your distance."You say, "Hail, An investigator"an investigator says, "Do not touch the sleeping one. You might never wake again."You say, "Hail, Dalhya Felshire"Dalhya Felshire says to you, "You should leave here. Do not wake the sleeping one."You say to Dalhya Felshire, "You mean Thumore? I have to admit, that seems like a strange demand. Why would a group of mages need to protect a sleeping man?"Dalhya Felshire says to you, "It is not to protect him. It is to protect others. His sleep is not natural, and has proven dangerous to our own colleagues who attempted to discern what was keeping him from waking."You say to Dalhya Felshire, "Interesting. So, those who touched him fell asleep themselves?"Dalhya Felshire says to you, "That is correct. When they fell asleep, their movements and even their breathing seemed to match his. We were able to move those that slumbered in this way without falling asleep ourselves, but touching Thumore always produces the same result. I fear he may be beyond aid."You say to Dalhya Felshire, "Hmm... same movements and breathing? Is it possible they are being pulled into whatever dream state that Thumore is in?"Dalhya Felshire says to you, "We pondered that possibility, but none have awoken since they fell into the slumber. It's not worth sacrificing anyone else to attempt to verify that theory, so we can't be certain exactly what it is that's happening. We theorize that they are entering the same dream that he is in."You say to Dalhya Felshire, "So, something like a dream world, then? That's interesting. I wonder if there might be more to this, though."Dalhya Felshire says to you, "You can't be thinking about trying to enter the dream yourself, can you? We have no idea what is actually happening! It's possible that we might never be able to wake you again!"You say to Dalhya Felshire, "I take the chance of never returning every time I venture out beyond the city walls. And if Thumore is as important as everyone is saying, then it would be worth finding a way to rouse him."Dalhya Felshire says to you, "That's very true. But what do you hope to accomplish? What is it you're going to do once you enter the dream?"You say to Dalhya Felshire, "I wish I could say, but I've faced enough of the unknown to be able to take care of myself. There must be a way to bring him out of his slumber, and the key must be in the dream."Dalhya Felshire says to you, "Well, I'm not going attempt to talk you out of it any further, if your desire is truly to end up as our other researchers. Although this might be the only way to help Thumore, I urge you to consider what you're doing."You say to Dalhya Felshire, "I have. Farewell for now." Then you move in to the dream world by choosing to fall asleep after interacting with the sleeping person on the floor.You have entered A Collection of Dreams.You say, "Hail, Thumore D'armer"Thumore D'armer says to you, "Ah... you have come. I was afraid that you might not, and I would be trapped here for an eternity."You say to Thumore D'armer, "Thumore, I take it? And how could you be expecting me? You are fast asleep in the world beyond this one."Thumore D'armer says to you, "Why would you assume that being in slumber would prevent awareness of the outside world? Nothing is further from the truth -- we are aware of many things when we sleep, from the outside world to what truly resides in our hearts. We are blind to nothing."You say to Thumore D'armer, "Be that as it may, you seem unable to leave this dream state you are in. If you are aware of so many things, why can you not wake yourself?"Thumore D'armer says to you, "Because, as I said, we can see what is truly within our hearts, and mine is not complete. I cannot leave here until I recover those parts that are missing. Since I cannot leave here, however, I am unable to complete this task."You say to Thumore D'armer, "And this is why you brought me here, I take it?"Thumore D'armer says to you, "Correct. I need those pieces of me that are missing, that have been scattered across Norrath. With these lost shards of myself, I can finally emerge from this dream I have woven for myself, and return to Norrath as I have longed to do."You say to Thumore D'armer, "And where might these pieces be?"Thumore D'armer says to you, "In many places, and all in one place. They are caught within the memories of places on Norrath -- inaccessible from the physical world, but floating in the remnants of thought and conscienceness. It is there you will find the parts of my spirit that have broken away."You say to Thumore D'armer, "Hmm... if they are not in the physical world, how will I find them then?"Thumore D'armer says to you, "Fear not, for although they are not in a place you can walk to, they are someplace you can travel to, as you do when you drift into your own dreams when you sleep. I will provide you with a means to getting to the places where the shards reside, if you can overcome the challenges and retrieve them for me."You say to Thumore D'armer, "Very well, I can do that for you. Where should I begin searching?"Thumore D'armer says to you, "You must first travel to the sands of the desert, to an observatory within a grand city. It is there that you will find the first shard. Once you have retrieved it, return it to me here."You say to Thumore D'armer, "I will be back once I have found the shard. Farewell."Go off and complete the DoF Memory of Sand, and this is the next bit: You say, "Hail, Thumore D'armer"Thumore D'armer says to you, "Ah, you have returned. I trust you have found the missing shard?"You say to Thumore D'armer, "I have located the shard within the Memory of Sand."Thumore D'armer says to you, "Ah, this is excellent! I knew you would be able to find this for me, and with your help, I will soon be complete once again. My thanks to you."You say to Thumore D'armer, "So there are more shards to find then, correct?"Thumore D'armer says to you, "There are more shards to find, and I appreciate you offering to help find them for me. If you are ready, I will open the portal to the next shard."You say to Thumore D'armer, "I am. Where is it I must go to now?"Thumore D'armer says to you, "The next one is within the memory of a palace in the sky, a place ruled by some of the mightiest creatures Norrath has ever known. It is there that you must search for the next shard piece."You say to Thumore D'armer, "Very well, then. I will search for the next piece of shard."Go off and complete the KoS Memory of ?Sky?, and this is the next bit:You say, "Hail, Thumore D'armer"Thumore D'armer says to you, "You have returned from the lands of the sky. Were you able to find the lost shard there?"You say to Thumore D'armer, "I was successful in finding the shard piece. Here you are."Thumore D'armer says to you, "You are proving to be quite resourceful in gathering these for me. I can feel my strength returning even now, with only these two pieces. Again, my thanks to you."You say to Thumore D'armer, "I am glad I was able to assist you. Are there more shards to search for?"Thumore D'armer says to you, "I am still missing several pieces in order to make me whole again, and with your help, I believe it is possible to retrieve them. If you are ready, I will open the portal to the next missing shard."You say to Thumore D'armer, "Very well then. Where is it we are going next?"Thumore D'armer says to you, "This next one is lost within a maze borne from madness, and tended by those who no longer draw breath within Norrath. You must search through the maze to locate the shard piece hidden within."You say to Thumore D'armer, "I see. Very well then, I will return when I have found it."Go off and complete the EoF Memory of ??, and this is the next bit:You say, "Hail, Thumore D'armer"Thumore D'armer says to you, "And here you are once again. Were you able to find the shard within the maze?"You say to Thumore D'armer, "I was. Here is the shard you were looking for."Thumore D'armer says to you, "And once again, you have come through for me. I cannot express how much I appreciate your help thus far."You say to Thumore D'armer, "You are quite welcome. I am assuming that there is another shard, correct?"Thumore D'armer says to you, "There is another shard hidden within a mighty castle, built long ago by one of the mightiest civilizations that Norrath has ever known. The shard is hidden within its walls, and is guarded well from those that would seek to remove it from that memory. I will open the portal once you are ready to seek it out."You say to Thumore D'armer, "I am ready now. I will do what I can to bring back the shard."Thumore D'armer says to you, "Good luck to you. Again, return to me once you have found the shard."You say to Thumore D'armer, "I will. Farewell for now."Go off and complete the RoK Memory of ?Scale?, and this is the next bit:You say, "Hail, Thumore D'armer"Thumore D'armer says to you, "You have returned once more. I trust that you've again located the shard I need?"You say to Thumore D'armer, "I have. Here is the shard."Thumore D'armer says to you, "Again, you have found that which I feared lost to me forever. I am close now to becoming whole once more, and returning back to the world I call home."You say to Thumore D'armer, "I am pleased I was able to help. Are there still more shards?"Thumore D'armer says to you, "Only one more shard remains. It is hidden within a palace lost to existence itself, floating on the edge of pure nothingness. You must search here in order to find the last shard."You say to Thumore D'armer, "Very well then. I will find the last shard."Thumore D'armer says to you, "Then I will open the portal for you. Good luck to you in your search. And my thanks to you once again."You say to Thumore D'armer, "Thank me when I manage to return with the shard. I will be back once I have found it."Go off and complete the TSO Memory of ??, and this is the final bit:You say, "Hail, Thumore D'armer"Thumore D'armer says to you, "I have been eagerly awaiting your return. Were you able to find the last shard?"You say to Thumore D'armer, "I believe I was. Is this what you were looking for?"Thumore D'armer says to you, "You have done a tremendous service. Not just to me, but quite possibly, to all of Norrath as well. Now that I have all of the shards of my lost self, I can finally break free of this world, and return to the world I once called home."You say to Thumore D'armer, "You mean to the Heroes' Festival? I know many people were waiting for you."Thumore D'armer says to you, "No... I mean return to the memories and dreams of all across Norrath, return to my place I gave up so long ago. The memories and dreams of Norrath have helped to hold my shattered self until you came to help me gather those shards once again. Now, I am finally whole."You say to Thumore D'armer, "Wait... those weren't your dreams? Just who are you?"You have been granted a new suffix title: the Dream HeroThumore D'armer says to you, "You will know me once again. Now awaken, my friend. Your service will not be forgotten."You say to Thumore D'armer, "You leave me with many questions, but I will take my leave for now. Farewell to you."

Kriptini

11-24-2009, 09:37 PM

So Morrell-Thule most have some connection with the Tower of Moon, Karnor's Castle, and (of all places in TSO...) the Palace of Ferzhul/Palace of the Ancient One.

Taurus_WD

11-24-2009, 09:42 PM

Based on what you guys have told me about Morrell-Thule, I would have to agree with that sentiment. The only reason I really had to go with Erollosi, was the talk about the heart and being fractured. I'm sure if a God was "killed" unless you have Theer doing the job, I'm guessing there might be a chance that there's fragments all over to be picked up and re-assemble your god. Kind of a DIY kit for the followers.Since Morrell seems to be the Sandman of EQ2, it really follows that this is a personification of him. If you guys have any tips on how you'd like me to re-edit the quest text for readability, please do so. Maybe the cataclysms and rending that affected Luclin and Norrath fractured some of the God's essences, and this is a God that's finally strong enough to ask you to grab the rest of him.

Homeskillet

11-24-2009, 09:52 PM

The one thing I did not mention because it was kind of debunked at the 2008 Lore Panel is that in the Tower of the Moon, there appears to be a third moon, which is rumored to be named Morrell...but the devs said that there was no definitive plans for a third moon and that it was artistic embelleshment...but as I go through the quest everything else seems to have a really firm link to the God of Dreams.

Kriptini

11-24-2009, 09:55 PM

Isn't there an article on EQ2i.com about a moon called Morrell? Also, it would make sense that the God of Dreams has a moon. Dreams, associated with sleep, associated with night, associated with the moon.

Homeskillet

11-24-2009, 09:57 PM

<a href="http://annex.wikia.com/wiki/Norrath">http://annex.wikia.com/wiki/Norrath</a>

Kriptini

11-24-2009, 10:05 PM

I was thinking more along the lines of: <a href="http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Morrell" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Morrell</a>

Homeskillet

11-24-2009, 10:10 PM

Ah yeah, they both mention Morrell being a moon of Norrath, your link more specifically mentions what I said earlier. They hadn't discussed it at the time so that doesn't really rule it out entirely. It does make sense though. As for Karnor's Castle, I'm not quite sure...I am trying to remember some of the lore of Thuuga and the iksar that were cursed to become the Drolvarg...but aside from that Kunark as a whole has heavy involvement with Morrell's father as Unrest did. As for the Palace, I believe that was meant to represent whatever shattered his essence such that it lingered only in the dreams of all of Norrath, hence "A Memory of Nothingness".

Anestacia

11-24-2009, 10:29 PM

Running the quest for a second and third time, I really beleive this heavily eludes to Morell Thule. Think about it; we see the Plane of Love for the first time in Norrathian history (unless it was in EQOA? Never played that much.) The events in the Love Shard tend to be a Prequel to something large on its way. Obviously Erollisi's death as well as Mithaniel's need to get back to the Plane of Valor. Now, assuming this asumption is right, we have helped to free Morell Thule thus leading to a new Shard in the future; another Plane we never got to see in EQ. I know its VERY early for speculation on the expansion following Sentinel's Fate but perhaps we are headed toward a new planes expansion and that makes me very happy. This time around, instead of killing the gods, we would most likely be helping them fight Theer, the god slayer.

Kriptini

11-24-2009, 10:31 PM

Well, Coercers are gonna have a diety to choose now. =P

Mirander_1

11-24-2009, 10:44 PM

After having actually played through the quest, I'm going to stick with my initial guess that Thumore is Morrel. Shards of himself are hidden in the dreams of others, he says his home is the world of memories and dreams, and he generally comes across as benevolent.Morrel was a demigod (or lesser god, one of the two), and many of them didn't make it through whatever happened to the planes in between eq1&2, so it makes sense that he might try to survive by scattering himself amongst the dreams of mortals.Regarding the people looking for significance in the zones an mobs used, I frankly don't think there is any. They just used dungeons and mobs unique to each of the expansions (this was the anniversary event, after all).Oh yeah, for the guy doing the transcript for this quest, I believe the zones are the Memory of Sand, Sky, Echoes, Scale, and Nothingness.EDIT: oh, for those interested: <a href="http://eq2.zam.com/wiki/Morell_Thule" target="_blank">Morell Thule</a>

Homeskillet

11-24-2009, 10:58 PM

<cite>Mirander@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>After having actually played through the quest, I'm going to stick with my initial guess that Thumore is Morrel. Shards of himself are hidden in the dreams of others, he says his home is the world of memories and dreams, and he generally comes across as benevolent.Morrel was a demigod (or lesser god, one of the two), and many of them didn't make it through whatever happened to the planes in between eq1&2, so it makes sense that he might try to survive by scattering himself amongst the dreams of mortals.Regarding the people looking for significance in the zones an mobs used, I frankly don't think there is any. They just used dungeons and mobs unique to each of the expansions (this was the anniversary event, after all).Oh yeah, for the guy doing the transcript for this quest, I believe the zones are the Memory of Sand, Sky, Echoes, Scale, and Nothingness.EDIT: oh, for those interested: <a href="http://eq2.zam.com/wiki/Morell_Thule" target="_blank">Morell Thule</a></blockquote>Most of the zones used actually do have some elements of significance to what little we know about Morrell Thule.

Cusashorn

11-24-2009, 11:04 PM

<cite>Kriptini@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>Well, Coercers are gonna have a diety to choose now. =P</blockquote>No they won't. Morrell Thule is a Good diety, not neutral. He's the Anti-Terris. Dreams and Nightmares and Ying and Yang.Anyways, it's pretty much agreed that the Kerafyrm theory has been bluntly beaten down at this point, right?Also: The Palace of Ferzul really has nothing to do with anything anymore. The devs mentioned earlier in the Anniversary Quests thread in the quests forum that that step is being taken out of the game tomorow.

Gninja

11-24-2009, 11:07 PM

The step is not being taken out of the quest. Its being changed to not require you to have the TSO Expansion in order to participate in the Anniversary event.

Cusashorn

11-24-2009, 11:22 PM

oh.BTW, I find your sig to be profesionally offensive against all monks. Gnome monks... That's just disgraceful. That's no ninja!

Mary the Prophetess

11-25-2009, 01:27 AM

I remain unpersuaded by all of the reasonings about Morell Thule. I believe you all are over-thinking it. I am highly skeptical that the designers would introduce another major theme into the game at this time with several, (at least), irons still very much in the fire.We have the Void to finish. We have Erollisi's fate to confirm. Freeport is falling apart. Rime is still thawing. Halas and Odus are approaching. Not to mention the Thex lineage at New Tunaria, Mayong, the Chelsith Stone, (et al).It just makes no sense. And a demi-god at that! From out of left field.Nope, it's Erollisi. Trust me. *nods*

DukeOccam

11-25-2009, 01:34 AM

<cite>Kriptini@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Mirander@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sounds like Morrel Thule to me.</blockquote>Nope, you're wrong.</blockquote><cite>Kriptini@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>We've been thrown curveballs before. Though at this point in time, it's looking like a 99% chance of bein Morrell. Unless of course, we're forgetting someone.</blockquote>LOL, gotta love it.

Kriptini

11-25-2009, 02:06 AM

<cite>Caethas@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kriptini@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Mirander@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sounds like Morrel Thule to me.</blockquote>Nope, you're wrong.</blockquote><cite>Kriptini@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>We've been thrown curveballs before. Though at this point in time, it's looking like a 99% chance of bein Morrell. Unless of course, we're forgetting someone.</blockquote>LOL, gotta love it.</blockquote>I WAS WRONG YOU GUYS. HORRIBLY, HORRIBLY, WRONG.All better? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />

Kriptini

11-25-2009, 02:08 AM

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kriptini@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>Well, Coercers are gonna have a diety to choose now. =P</blockquote>No they won't. Morrell Thule is a Good diety, not neutral. He's the Anti-Terris. Dreams and Nightmares and Ying and Yang.</blockquote>QFE<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Anyways, it's pretty much agreed that the Kerafyrm theory has been bluntly beaten down at this point, right?</blockquote>Nope. We've been thrown curveballs before. There's still a chance! Although Morrell Thule is much more likely.I will, however, be laughing should it turn out to be Kyrafyrm.

Homeskillet

11-25-2009, 02:28 AM

<cite>Mary the Prophetess wrote:</cite><blockquote>I remain unpersuaded by all of the reasonings about Morell Thule. I believe you all are over-thinking it. I am highly skeptical that the designers would introduce another major theme into the game at this time with several, (at least), irons still very much in the fire.We have the Void to finish. We have Erollisi's fate to confirm. Freeport is falling apart. Rime is still thawing. Halas and Odus are approaching. Not to mention the Thex lineage at New Tunaria, Mayong, the Chelsith Stone, (et al).It just makes no sense. And a demi-god at that! From out of left field.Nope, it's Erollisi. Trust me. *nods* </blockquote>I'm going to channel that one dude and say that I am pretty sure you are wrong.It's not being over thought at all, there are quite a few simple and direct connections that deem it to be Morrell Thule, the entire nature of the encounter is not really indicative of Erollisi. Going to try and list them off:His name: Thumore D'armer...Thumore seems like a fairly close hint at the name Morrell Thule, though not a straight anagram. D'armer could be a play on a word as it sounds very similar to the word "dormir", a spanish and french word meaning sleep ( in a verb sense anyway).He seems to be guiding people to find him and help him, those that lead the player to him speak of him in near legendary status, speaking of his importance, and yet the player is made to state that it is odd for him/her to have never heard of such a legendary hero. When we find him, he is asleep, and an object of curiosity as whoever comes in contact with him seems to fall immediately into a slumber...entering a dream like state where they finally meet Thumore.He speaks much of existing within the realms of dreams, and that his essence has been shattered and scattered around into locations that cannot truly be physically traveled to. He facilitates the transport of the player to these memories and echoes of parts of himself, further implying a strong connection to dreams and a power over them.The first memory is of the Tower of the Moon in Maj'dal, there are two widely known moons orbiting Norrath, Luclin and Drinal. A third moon can be seen in this observatory in a model of the Ro system, that moon is named Morrell, after the God of Dreams.The second memory was in "A Memory of Sky", of obscure significance perhaps, but the Overrealm is a part of what remains of the Plane of Sky, Veeshan's realm. A legend says that one of the reasons Veeshan's presence was not seen within her Plane before was because her consciousness and essence slumber within the realm of dreams, goverened by; you guessed it, Morrell Thule.The next shard was located in a remnant of Unrest, a "maze borne of madness", while the literal connecton of the hedge maze can be drawn to the Plane of Nightmares, which actually borders the Plane of Dreams, the location itself is perhaps more key. While it is unknown why the guardians of this Memory are all creatures of Steamfont (even clockworks), unrest itself is heavily tied to Cazic Thule, as it was he who originally cursed it. Garanel himself was cursed by Quellious. Cazic Thule is of course, Morrell's father. The one guardian creature that stood out were the satyr guardians, as some representations of Morrell resemble a centaur, others a satyr, always with a single shimmering horn of white light though as a unique characteristic of this demigod.After that we journey to Karnors, guarded by iksar and Drolvarg. Now, connections here are loose at best. The Drolvarg are formerly Iksar of Drolakis, once led by the long dead Iksar Chief, Thuuga. They were cursed using the power of Innoruuk by Venril Sathir though and forced to serve as his guardians (as far as we know history to be written). Nonetheless, the Iksar are a creation of Morrell's father, Cazic Thule. Some unknown connection may exist there.The final piece is found in what resembles the Palace of Ferzhul, termed a "Memory of Nothingness", this is another unknown, but it could indicate a connection between the void and Morrell's essence being fragmented as it was. He survived in the dreams and minds of all mortals. When all is said and done, it is plainly said that this is the last we will see of him for now...and the NPCs who led us to Thumore now have no idea of who he is, or ever was.

Kriptini

11-25-2009, 02:34 AM

<cite>Homeskillet wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Mary the Prophetess wrote:</cite><blockquote>I remain unpersuaded by all of the reasonings about Morell Thule. I believe you all are over-thinking it. I am highly skeptical that the designers would introduce another major theme into the game at this time with several, (at least), irons still very much in the fire.We have the Void to finish. We have Erollisi's fate to confirm. Freeport is falling apart. Rime is still thawing. Halas and Odus are approaching. Not to mention the Thex lineage at New Tunaria, Mayong, the Chelsith Stone, (et al).It just makes no sense. And a demi-god at that! From out of left field.Nope, it's Erollisi. Trust me. *nods* </blockquote>I'm going to channel that one dude and say that I am pretty sure you are wrong.</blockquote>You can call me Kriptini. And your form is a bit off. You need to state your opinion as fact. Observe:"Nope, you're wrong.""That's obviously wrong.""How can that possibly be correct, when it contradicts with my theory?"All good choices.

glowsintheda

11-25-2009, 02:48 AM

My first reaction was that he was Theer, but Morrel seems to make a lot more sense. Not sure why I jumped to him being Theer, except maybe for the fact that the clamore replica was a reward, but I seriously doubt it now.

Phaabap

11-25-2009, 02:57 AM

Personally i will say its morrel but... has anyone noticed that the painting you get as a reward is of a dragon, which could possibly throw the ball back into kerafyrms court.Now i know its just the quest reward and has nothing to do with the text or anything, im just throwing that out there incase it adds a little more insight or depth for people to discuss

Homeskillet

11-25-2009, 03:00 AM

The dragon is Venekor, son of Trakanon, and also pretty iconic of Everquest 2 as he has been a recurring foe in both the original game, the Spirits of the Lost live event/raid, and Kingdom of Sky. I believe the painting was on Test months ago though so I don't really draw a connection. As for the Qeynos Claymore replica...I have a feeling that the Right and Left Hand of Theer may have a connection to Morrell as his last shard is found in a "Memory of Nothingness" which is within the Palace of Ferzhul/The Ancient One.

Taurus_WD

11-25-2009, 03:25 AM

I'm just going to add that the Kingdom of Sky zone that he is in, Halls of Fate, exists within the "Realm of Night" which also plays in to the fact that this is dream related (except for day dreams of course).Man, I wish they'd do another map book, I really enjoy the one I have, and can't wait for another one. With Morrell having history with the Marr's, it's entirely possible that he may be integral to the Marr story line.

Kamimura

11-25-2009, 03:26 AM

<cite>Phaabap@Nektulos wrote:</cite><blockquote>Personally i will say its morrel but... has anyone noticed that the painting you get as a reward is of a dragon, which could possibly throw the ball back into kerafyrms court.</blockquote>I wouldn't really consider this as a factor. The painting originally went out on test back when EQL was celebrating its 10th anniversary. However, it was decided since the painting has way more to do with EQ2 than EQL it would be used in another way - here for EQ2's anniversary. Sure, you could argue that they could have given out the painting a number of ways, so perhaps there is some meaning to who they gave it to, but I personally wouldn't read that far into it.

Obzidian

11-25-2009, 05:00 AM

About Morrell ThuleMorell Thule - The Lord of Dreams Morell-Thule, the Lord of Dreams, rules the demi-Plane of Dreams where he is responsible for the rich texture of sleep visions. He creates, animates and thoroughly enjoys the creatures who romp in his realm. He is nearly seven feet tall, well built and has handsome, youthful features. His body is that of a pure white centaur with the tail of a lion. His silver hooves sparkle constantly and he has a unicorn-like horn on his brow. That horn is not made of hair as with most such protuberances, but is purely a thing of light. His long hair grows down his spine and ends in a glistening white mane which, with his pale skin, set off his beautiful green eyes.Morell Thule is the outcast son of Cazic Thule and brother of Terris Thule with whom he often contests their shared realm of dreams and nightmares. It was through this animosity towards his father and sister that Morell Thule became an ally of Mithaniel Marr and played a part in the Origins of Barbarians and Frogloks. <img src="http://eq2.zam.com/Im/width=250/65529" width="250" height="281" />When I did the quest, I thought Theer or Morell Thule. Theer because we know he's been shoved into the void and he's trying to get back and dreams make sense as a way for him to communicate with Norrathians. Plus, he says that by helping him come back together you are helping to save Norrath. Theer, from what we've seen, has always worked fairly well with mortals and is coming back to bring vengeance to Norrath, but mostly against the gods. Being willing to help him out could help spare Norrathian mortals some of that vengeance.Theer also seemed more likely to me than them bringing in a god who never played a large direct role in Norrathian history, with the exception of the frogloks and barbarians which can be seen as still gods fighting against each other. I think Morell for all the reasons that have been listed basically. Also, anagrams for the name? Mor'Thu Dreamer. D'armer is actually very close to dreamer. Of course, it could be Morell Thule on the basis that he has traditionally worked to preserve balance. Unlike many other gods, he doesn't step out of his role. Therefore, maybe he was trying to return to his plane to stop or reduce Theer's vengeance. It really could go either way, although the bulk of the evidence does point toward Morell Thule.One thing we should be talking about is what does it mean that the memories you're entering are void portals and that when you go to talk to Thumore, you go to the same empty place that you go when you enter the rifts for the Ulteran Spires event. Could be just zone reuse, but it likely has some meaning.Also remember that when the gods withdrew from Norrath, they hurt themselves and their power bases far more than they realized would happen. They damanged their planes. That's why we have shards of planes and why people like Miragul are able to attain planar shards. Perhaps we are seeing a repeat performance of Morell Thule's magic with the Marrs where this time he split himself in order to preserve himself until the right time when he could return to help save Norrath from tragedy. The Marr story shows that Morell split Mithaniel and then gave the frogloks dreams that would help lead them to reuniting Mithaniel when the time was right. Dreams are often tied to prophecy and foresight. We're getting close to Age's End on the giant doomsday calendar too. It all seems relevant.

Xalmat

11-25-2009, 05:56 AM

<cite>Sorako@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>I wouldn't really consider this as a factor. The painting originally went out on test back when EQL was celebrating its 10th anniversary. However, it was decided since the painting has way more to do with EQ2 than EQL it would be used in another way - here for EQ2's anniversary. Sure, you could argue that they could have given out the painting a number of ways, so perhaps there is some meaning to who they gave it to, but I personally wouldn't read that far into it.</blockquote>Not only that, but Fan Faire attendees got the true EverQuest 10 year anniversary award: A statue of Firiona Vie.

Xalmat

11-25-2009, 06:00 AM

<cite>Obzidian wrote:</cite><blockquote>One thing we should be talking about is what does it mean that the memories you're entering are void portals and that when you go to talk to Thumore, you go to the same empty place that you go when you enter the rifts for the Ulteran Spires event. Could be just zone reuse, but it likely has some meaning.</blockquote>I think it's more correct to believe it's simply asset reuse. This way the dev team doesn't have to spend a lot of time creating new art assets for a one shot event; they can just reuse existing assets. There aren't that many different portals in the game, and a lot of them look fairly close to each other.

Kamimura

11-25-2009, 06:17 AM

<cite>Obzidian wrote:</cite><blockquote>Morell Thule is the outcast son of Cazic Thule and brother of Terris Thule with whom he often contests their shared realm of dreams and nightmares.</blockquote>So, here's a question. I've known that Morell is brother to Terris, and son of Cazic for a good while now. However, tonight in lore chat someone said that Morell and Terris were created by Cazic and Quellious in a joint effort. How much truth is there to that?

Meirril

11-25-2009, 07:47 AM

<cite>Mary the Prophetess wrote:</cite><blockquote>I remain unpersuaded by all of the reasonings about Morell Thule. I believe you all are over-thinking it. I am highly skeptical that the designers would introduce another major theme into the game at this time with several, (at least), irons still very much in the fire.We have the Void to finish. We have Erollisi's fate to confirm. Freeport is falling apart. Rime is still thawing. Halas and Odus are approaching. Not to mention the Thex lineage at New Tunaria, Mayong, the Chelsith Stone, (et al).It just makes no sense. And a demi-god at that! From out of left field.Nope, it's Erollisi. Trust me. *nods* </blockquote>And you could use your same argument to say that Shard of Love makes no sense since we have this huge void thing looming overhead.Brell got a huge event before EoF came out. All the rest of the gods in EoF got a little something that lasted for a few days. I'm thinking this is one of the three dieties that will be released in SF. Erollisi (or a new god of love? /shudder) will be the good god (I'd rather her be neutral worshipable). Morell Thule should be the neutral (wouldn't it just be odd if he was the good? Poor coercers!). I've always though of him being neutral despite him helping Mithanial Marr simply because dreams arn't just good. He's here to make sure you get a good nights sleep, and keep your imagination active. He wants to keep his sister from taking over sleep and turning every slumbering hour into nightmares and torment.There is a good possability that if Morell resurfaces, so could Terris. Though, I'm pulling for Ullurukk. Then again, didn't the evils just get Anashti without any other ballancing dieties? Hmm....

Meirril

11-25-2009, 07:53 AM

<cite>Obzidian wrote:</cite><blockquote> Theer, from what we've seen, has always worked fairly well with mortals and is coming back to bring vengeance to Norrath, but mostly against the gods. </blockquote>So...what have you seen? Where is this comming from?From my logic, the easiest way to weaken the gods is to destroy Norrath. Theer already started this process when he placed the void anchors on Norrath. Even if Theer himself never makes it to Norrath all he has to do is wait long enough and it will come to him unless the anchors are destroyed.Also, AFAIK we have zero lore involving Theer doing anything. We know what his purpose was. We don't even know if he actually executed any gods, or if he was even around when Veeshan claimed Norrath.So, really, what are you basing your arguments on?

Vulkan_NTooki

11-25-2009, 09:07 AM

Dudes... his name is Thumore D'armer.. Thu(le) More(ll) D'armer (if u just glance at the last name it coulda just read Dreamer).. Dont put more into this than what it is.. Its Morell Thule.. there is no doubt.

Obzidian

11-25-2009, 09:41 AM

Re Theer: My argument is based upon his influence and use of mortals to serve his will. The house of Bayle is a great example of mortals serving Theer's will on Norrath via the whole staff of Theer thing which allowed the void first into Norrath and then later with the Qeynos Claymore. We also have Soulfire. I don't think that its just by chance that Theer's "hands" just happened to end up balancing each other as objects of power. Theer's purpose is balance, preserving the balance between gods. The balance has been upset by the gods, especially after they threw Theer into the void. His vengeance would naturally be aimed at the people who trapped him and prevented him from doing his duty, the gods. Given the influence he's wielded and the fact that shadowed men have been on Norrath for a very, very long time, there is a whole lot more damage Theer could have done to mortal populations with his minions should he have opted to do so.Do I think he loves the people of Norrath and wants to hold hands with them? No. I think there will be serious reprecussions for Norrath, especially those who have attempted to keep Theer trapped in the Void (which includes all of us who have helped Najena). But I don't think he views mortals as necessarily his enemies. More like mortals can be useful to him but are also likely to be collatoral damage and those that serve the gods are enemy ants. It seems he wants retribution on the gods, and he wants to balance the scales again, both of these things will have huge impacts upon the world.So, I'm basing my arguments on the fact that the Staff of Theer, Soulfire and the Claymore all made it to Norrath and have all served major purposes in Norrathian history and that these are the hands and arm of Theer. I'm basing this on the lore from Corruption of Elements we get Theer's history and purpose and presumably see him focusing on attempting to escape more than anything else. And of course from the descriptions of Sentinel's Fate. I don't think Theer is benevolent towards mortals, but I also think he's worked with them and used them. recognizes their usefulness as tools, and is really more concerned with the gods.

Pervis

11-25-2009, 10:20 AM

As much as I'd like to think otherwise, it does seem as if this is Morrell Thule, even if only for the fact that he said he is returning to the memories and dreams of others.If its true, it leaves me with two main questions; why did he give up his place in the world, and how is what we did supposed to help him get it back.

obikenkenobi

11-25-2009, 11:23 AM

This is from the eq 1 zam.Morell-Thule, the Lord of Dreams rules the Demi-Plane of Dreams where he is responsible for the rich texture of sleep visions. He creates, animates and thoroughly enjoys the creatures who romp in his realm. Though nearly seven feet tall and well built, he has handsome and youthful features. His body habitus is that of a pure white centaur with the tail of a lion. His silver hooves sparkle constantly because of the unicorn-like horn on his brow. That horn is not made of hair as with most such protuberances, but is purely a thing of light. His long hair grows down his spine and ends in a glistening white mane which, with his pale skin, set off his beautiful green eyes. Morell Thule is the outcast son of Cazic-Thule and brother of Terris-Thule with whom he often contests their shared realm of dreams and nightmares. It was through this animosity towards his father and sister that Morell Thule became an ally of Mithaniel Marr and played a part in the Origin of the BarbariansConsidering that we've recently had the shard of love events and Mithaniel Marr was present there, it would seem to make sense that this guy would show up for whatever reason...and he did play a part in the origin of the barbs too as the write up states....Something to do with New Halas perhaps? Dunno, I'm not a total lore genius...but it would appear to make sense in the scheme of things.

Pyra Shineflame

11-25-2009, 11:32 AM

What convinced me that it was Morell and not Theer, was the fact that he says he is trapped in the dream he wove for himself and second, that he will return to the place he left so long ago. There's no reason why Theer can't necessarily communicate through dreams but I doubt he can make one. Not to mention, he's stuck in the void, and no dream shards or memories would be able to get him out of that (we had to utterly destroy Anashti for her to reform on Norrath). Not to mention, you get the title of Dream Hero.

Homeskillet

11-25-2009, 12:09 PM

<cite>Sorako@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Obzidian wrote:</cite><blockquote>Morell Thule is the outcast son of Cazic Thule and brother of Terris Thule with whom he often contests their shared realm of dreams and nightmares.</blockquote>So, here's a question. I've known that Morell is brother to Terris, and son of Cazic for a good while now. However, tonight in lore chat someone said that Morell and Terris were created by Cazic and Quellious in a joint effort. How much truth is there to that?</blockquote>None at all as far as I know. I'm pretty sure that's a bit of Cusaconjecture.

urgthock

11-25-2009, 12:42 PM

<cite>Meirril wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Mary the Prophetess wrote:</cite><blockquote>I remain unpersuaded by all of the reasonings about Morell Thule. I believe you all are over-thinking it. I am highly skeptical that the designers would introduce another major theme into the game at this time with several, (at least), irons still very much in the fire.We have the Void to finish. We have Erollisi's fate to confirm. Freeport is falling apart. Rime is still thawing. Halas and Odus are approaching. Not to mention the Thex lineage at New Tunaria, Mayong, the Chelsith Stone, (et al).It just makes no sense. And a demi-god at that! From out of left field.Nope, it's Erollisi. Trust me. *nods* </blockquote>And you could use your same argument to say that Shard of Love makes no sense since we have this huge void thing looming overhead.Brell got a huge event before EoF came out. All the rest of the gods in EoF got a little something that lasted for a few days. I'm thinking this is one of the three dieties that will be released in SF. Erollisi (or a new god of love? /shudder) will be the good god (I'd rather her be neutral worshipable). Morell Thule should be the neutral (wouldn't it just be odd if he was the good? Poor coercers!). I've always though of him being neutral despite him helping Mithanial Marr simply because dreams arn't just good. He's here to make sure you get a good nights sleep, and keep your imagination active. He wants to keep his sister from taking over sleep and turning every slumbering hour into nightmares and torment.There is a good possability that if Morell resurfaces, so could Terris. Though, I'm pulling for Ullurukk. Then again, didn't the evils just get Anashti without any other ballancing dieties? Hmm....</blockquote>I highly doubt that SF will launch with 3 new diety choices. More likely just one.

Pervis

11-25-2009, 12:54 PM

<cite>urgthock wrote:</cite><blockquote>I highly doubt that SF will launch with 3 new diety choices. More likely just one.</blockquote>More likely just none.

Lodrelhai

11-25-2009, 01:16 PM

<cite>Homeskillet wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sorako@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Obzidian wrote:</cite><blockquote>Morell Thule is the outcast son of Cazic Thule and brother of Terris Thule with whom he often contests their shared realm of dreams and nightmares.</blockquote>So, here's a question. I've known that Morell is brother to Terris, and son of Cazic for a good while now. However, tonight in lore chat someone said that Morell and Terris were created by Cazic and Quellious in a joint effort. How much truth is there to that?</blockquote>None at all as far as I know. I'm pretty sure that's a bit of Cusaconjecture.</blockquote>I'm not Cusa, thoug I am the one who mentioned it in lore chat last night.I first heard that the twins were the children of Cazic and Quellious back in EQ1 from a guildie who was far more into the lore than I was at the time. However, now I can't find a source for the info. I apologize if I got this wrong.

Ragnaphore

11-25-2009, 01:46 PM

<cite>Meirril wrote:</cite><blockquote>Brell got a huge event before EoF came out. All the rest of the gods in EoF got a little something that lasted for a few days.</blockquote>Err no. Brell's event wasn't much bigger than the other "EoF" gods and surely didn't last longer (in fact, Brell and Sol Ro events were the last to be implemented - LU28, EoF launch was LU29)

Eveningsong

11-25-2009, 02:08 PM

<cite>Kriptini@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Mirander@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sounds like Morrel Thule to me.</blockquote>Nope, you're wrong.</blockquote>No, I think he's right. We were talking about it on Test chat last night, and I pointed out that D'armer is an acronym for "dreamer", and Thumore is very close to "Morell Thul", just drop all the "L"s and swap the order. I am not an expert on Morell-Thule but if I recall correctly, he is the god of dreams. There's some info on The Athenaeum <a href="http://www.lorelibrary.com/?page=book&bid=170" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lorelibrary.com/?page=book&bid=170</a> that indicates that Morell-Thule impregnated Erollisi Marr to spawn the race of Northmen (Barbarians?). Could be a Halas/new expansion connection there <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.

Eveningsong

11-25-2009, 02:08 PM

Brell's event just seemed big because everytime someone completed it the entire world had an earthquake lol.

Homeskillet

11-25-2009, 02:25 PM

<cite>Eveningsong wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kriptini@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Mirander@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sounds like Morrel Thule to me.</blockquote>Nope, you're wrong.</blockquote>No, I think he's right. We were talking about it on Test chat last night, and I pointed out that D'armer is an acronym for "dreamer", and Thumore is very close to "Morell Thul", just drop all the "L"s and swap the order. I am not an expert on Morell-Thule but if I recall correctly, he is the god of dreams. There's some info on The Athenaeum <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.lorelibrary.com/?page=book&bid=170" target="_blank">http://www.lorelibrary.com/?page=book&bid=170</a> that indicates that Morell-Thule impregnated Erollisi Marr to spawn the race of Northmen (Barbarians?). Could be a Halas/new expansion connection there <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />.</blockquote>LOL, I like how she read up until she saw your post and responded to that rather than read the rest of the thread where we stomp your claim into the ground Kriptini.

Eveningsong

11-25-2009, 02:34 PM

Yep, always read to the end of a thread before replying <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> thought I had scrolled all the way down to see if anyone had mentioned it before I posted, but obviously I either didn't scroll far enough or things hadn't finished fully loading.

Cusashorn

11-25-2009, 02:39 PM

<cite>Lodrelhai wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Homeskillet wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sorako@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Obzidian wrote:</cite><blockquote>Morell Thule is the outcast son of Cazic Thule and brother of Terris Thule with whom he often contests their shared realm of dreams and nightmares.</blockquote>So, here's a question. I've known that Morell is brother to Terris, and son of Cazic for a good while now. However, tonight in lore chat someone said that Morell and Terris were created by Cazic and Quellious in a joint effort. How much truth is there to that?</blockquote>None at all as far as I know. I'm pretty sure that's a bit of Cusaconjecture.</blockquote>I'm not Cusa, thoug I am the one who mentioned it in lore chat last night.I first heard that the twins were the children of Cazic and Quellious back in EQ1 from a guildie who was far more into the lore than I was at the time. However, now I can't find a source for the info. I apologize if I got this wrong.</blockquote>I originally had heard that Terris and Morrell were originally created by Cazic and Quellious merging their essences as well, but I've never been able to find any confirmation of this story.Also, please don't say "Cusaconjecture". Please give me a little bit of credit, ok?

FreaklyCreak

11-25-2009, 03:35 PM

Is this even cannon lore?

urgthock

11-25-2009, 03:52 PM

Nothing is "cannon lore" until it happens... and then it is. These events are just now happening, so they will be.

Rezikai

11-25-2009, 04:17 PM

<cite>Sorako@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Obzidian wrote:</cite><blockquote>Morell Thule is the outcast son of Cazic Thule and brother of Terris Thule with whom he often contests their shared realm of dreams and nightmares.</blockquote>So, here's a question. I've known that Morell is brother to Terris, and son of Cazic for a good while now. However, tonight in lore chat someone said that Morell and Terris were created by Cazic and Quellious in a joint effort. How much truth is there to that?</blockquote>I believe thats correct, but just for Morell i think, Terris if i remember correctly might have been brought about by Cazic and his wife... eh.. i forget her name at the moment.

Cusashorn

11-25-2009, 04:50 PM

<cite>Rezikai wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sorako@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Obzidian wrote:</cite><blockquote>Morell Thule is the outcast son of Cazic Thule and brother of Terris Thule with whom he often contests their shared realm of dreams and nightmares.</blockquote>So, here's a question. I've known that Morell is brother to Terris, and son of Cazic for a good while now. However, tonight in lore chat someone said that Morell and Terris were created by Cazic and Quellious in a joint effort. How much truth is there to that?</blockquote>I believe thats correct, but just for Morell i think, Terris if i remember correctly might have been brought about by Cazic and his wife... eh.. i forget her name at the moment.</blockquote>Cazic had a wife? This would be the first time I've heard of it if this is true.

Homeskillet

11-25-2009, 05:21 PM

Cusaconjecture!BRB calling the dictionary peoples...

Cusashorn

11-25-2009, 05:25 PM

Stop that!

obikenkenobi

11-25-2009, 05:26 PM

A shot in the dark, I though maybe some of what is on this sword might mean something. I would attempt to figure this out on my own, but really don't have the time. Hopefully you lore guys can make some use of it. Or maybe its nothing. <img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v144/obikenkenobi30/EQ2_000000.jpg" /><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v144/obikenkenobi30/EQ2_000005-1.jpg" /> <img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v144/obikenkenobi30/EQ2_000004.jpg" /> <img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v144/obikenkenobi30/EQ2_000003.jpg" /> <img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v144/obikenkenobi30/EQ2_000002.jpg" /> Sorry for the image heavy post, but I thought these might help in figuring this all out. Anyway, have a great Thanksgiving everyone who is having one and if not have a great week <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Mynervia

11-25-2009, 05:29 PM

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kriptini@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>Well, Coercers are gonna have a diety to choose now. =P</blockquote>No they won't. Morrell Thule is a Good diety, not neutral. He's the Anti-Terris. Dreams and Nightmares and Ying and Yang.</blockquote>I thought Morrell was *all* dreams, and Terris just had the Nightmare sub-set? It's been a while, but that was the impression I got from PoP. (from the guy tormented by nightmares just outside PoNightmareA, and other NPCs in PoTranquility and PoKnowledge, if memory serves ... and I fully admit I could be remembering wrong >< )

Aurel

11-25-2009, 05:43 PM

I saw a book in one of those screenshots!! *tries to steal*And if it helps, Cusashorn, you can pretend they're not talking about you, but instead Nicholas Cryfts, also known as Nicholas of Cusa, who wrote, among other things, De Conjecturis or "On Conjectures," which can be referred to as Nicholas of Cusa's Conjectures... a.k.a, Cusa's Conjectures, or, finally, Cusaconjecture. d:

Lodrelhai

11-25-2009, 06:03 PM

I can't seem to find a match in any of the in-game fonts. Anyone with better eyes having more luck?

glowsintheda

11-25-2009, 06:33 PM

I remember the bit about Cazic and Quelliosu being the parents of oneor both of the Thulle children also, and it was definatly something from EQ1, but I can't for the life of me remember where exactly it was mentioned

Homeskillet

11-25-2009, 07:18 PM

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Stop that!</blockquote>No, it gets me fan mail.

DukeOccam

11-25-2009, 07:44 PM

<cite>glowsinthedark wrote:</cite><blockquote>I remember the bit about Cazic and Quelliosu being the parents of oneor both of the Thulle children also, and it was definatly something from EQ1, but I can't for the life of me remember where exactly it was mentioned</blockquote>Eww...isn't Quellious always described as a child? I know they're gods and the same rules don't generally apply, but still. Major squickitude.

shadowscale

11-25-2009, 08:26 PM

<cite>Caethas@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>glowsinthedark wrote:</cite><blockquote>I remember the bit about Cazic and Quelliosu being the parents of oneor both of the Thulle children also, and it was definatly something from EQ1, but I can't for the life of me remember where exactly it was mentioned</blockquote>Eww...isn't Quellious always described as a child? I know they're gods and the same rules don't generally apply, but still. Major squickitude.</blockquote>dont forget erolsi giveing birth due to the essence of her own brother.god are weird like that.

Pyra Shineflame

11-25-2009, 08:44 PM

<cite>shadowscale wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Caethas@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>glowsinthedark wrote:</cite><blockquote>I remember the bit about Cazic and Quelliosu being the parents of oneor both of the Thulle children also, and it was definatly something from EQ1, but I can't for the life of me remember where exactly it was mentioned</blockquote>Eww...isn't Quellious always described as a child? I know they're gods and the same rules don't generally apply, but still. Major squickitude.</blockquote>dont forget erolsi giveing birth due to the essence of her own brother.god are weird like that.</blockquote>This. In some ways Quel/Cazic isn't the worst thing that could happen. I'm pretty sure they can somewhat control their appearances so maybe "child" should be replaced with "preferred form is a child?" Erollisi and Mithaniel can't exactly stop being siblings quite so easily.

Cusashorn

11-25-2009, 09:10 PM

<cite>Caethas@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>glowsinthedark wrote:</cite><blockquote>I remember the bit about Cazic and Quelliosu being the parents of oneor both of the Thulle children also, and it was definatly something from EQ1, but I can't for the life of me remember where exactly it was mentioned</blockquote>Eww...isn't Quellious always described as a child? I know they're gods and the same rules don't generally apply, but still. Major squickitude.</blockquote>It's not like the gods have to physically do the act in order to create offspring. They just merge parts of their essences together.Still, yeah.. Squick indeed.

Meirril

11-25-2009, 09:19 PM

<cite>urgthock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Meirril wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Mary the Prophetess wrote:</cite><blockquote>I remain unpersuaded by all of the reasonings about Morell Thule. I believe you all are over-thinking it. I am highly skeptical that the designers would introduce another major theme into the game at this time with several, (at least), irons still very much in the fire.We have the Void to finish. We have Erollisi's fate to confirm. Freeport is falling apart. Rime is still thawing. Halas and Odus are approaching. Not to mention the Thex lineage at New Tunaria, Mayong, the Chelsith Stone, (et al).It just makes no sense. And a demi-god at that! From out of left field.Nope, it's Erollisi. Trust me. *nods* </blockquote>And you could use your same argument to say that Shard of Love makes no sense since we have this huge void thing looming overhead.Brell got a huge event before EoF came out. All the rest of the gods in EoF got a little something that lasted for a few days. I'm thinking this is one of the three dieties that will be released in SF. Erollisi (or a new god of love? /shudder) will be the good god (I'd rather her be neutral worshipable). Morell Thule should be the neutral (wouldn't it just be odd if he was the good? Poor coercers!). I've always though of him being neutral despite him helping Mithanial Marr simply because dreams arn't just good. He's here to make sure you get a good nights sleep, and keep your imagination active. He wants to keep his sister from taking over sleep and turning every slumbering hour into nightmares and torment.There is a good possability that if Morell resurfaces, so could Terris. Though, I'm pulling for Ullurukk. Then again, didn't the evils just get Anashti without any other ballancing dieties? Hmm....</blockquote>I highly doubt that SF will launch with 3 new diety choices. More likely just one.</blockquote>EoF introduced, what 9 dieties? RoK introduced 3. TSO introduced 2 (I forgot about Rodcet). The dieties seem to come in sets of 3. TSO did break this pattern, but I have a feeling they might be returning to the 3 format.Honestly, 3 dieties seems really artificial and unnecessary. I'd perfer dieties come with storylines that make some sense. Trying to mix a third diety in when the story would be strong with either more, or less doesn't appeal to me. I'd perfer things be done purely for the story.Any way you look at this, the short odds point towards a god of love in SF. Also the return of Morell Thule. There are still two months to foreshadow a third diety. Maybe even a fourth diety. Who knows? Maybe E'ci will be announced during Frostfell as a returning diety? Maybe Tarru Marr will take offense at his daughter's slaying and step in to her role? (So he would be an elemental and influence diety? Kind of a busy fellow, eh?) Maybe the entire triumberant of water will come all at once? There is still time to play out the story before SF is released.

Homeskillet

11-25-2009, 09:22 PM

No, those rules apply...in your head, in all the sticky detail.Anyway, I have a hard time believing two dieties who HATE THE LIVING @#$%^@ OUT OF EACHOTHER would corporate on making some baby gods. Granted, the whole situation of the Erudites constructing a city named to mutually honor Fear and Tranquility boggles the mind as well.We've not really seen any sort of corporative projects to make Demi-gods before, so I don't see a reason why there would be in this case least of all. Tarew Marr created the Marr Twins, Fennin Ro created Solusek, Cazic Thule created [Removed for Content] near a host of demi-gods of varying power outside of Terris and Morrell (you see a few even now in Shard of Fear).

Aurel

11-25-2009, 09:34 PM

Okay! I knew I had read something about this (Quellious and the Thules) before and I found it on <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=378866" target="_blank">this forum posting about the Pantheon</a>.Morell Thule is one of two sub deities created by two diametrically opposed gods of influence. Legends say that the deities of Fear and Tranquility battled over the dream world, and after neither of them gained any ground, they each put forth a portion of their power, creating the twin deities Morell and Terris Thule.I think the problem here is that you all are assuming Quellious and Cazic created Morell and Terris the mortal way. They are gods, after all... They don't have to do things that way!

Cusashorn

11-25-2009, 09:40 PM

<cite>Homeskillet wrote:</cite><blockquote>Granted, the whole situation of the Erudites constructing a city named to mutually honor Fear and Tranquility boggles the mind as well.</blockquote>Not really. It's quite apparent that the Erudites who lived in Erudin and mainly worshiped Quellious, and the Erudite heretics who lived in Paineel and worshipped Cazic Thule, put aside their differences to join together and reunite their race.Also, just to clarify:Demi-Gods = Mortals turned God.Lesser Gods = Still 100% god, but hold power over a lesser influence. Morrell and Terris are the later of these two definitions.

Kamimura

11-25-2009, 10:05 PM

<cite>Aurelis wrote:</cite><blockquote>Okay! I knew I had read something about this (Quellious and the Thules) before and I found it on <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=378866" target="_blank">this forum posting about the Pantheon</a>.</blockquote>Hmm.. that is interesting. I'm left wondering two things, though. First, where that information originally came from. Second, if it is true, I wonder why two deities who really don't get along would do that. Confusing, but interesting...

DukeOccam

11-25-2009, 10:26 PM

<cite>Aurelis wrote:</cite><blockquote>Okay! I knew I had read something about this (Quellious and the Thules) before and I found it on <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=378866" target="_blank">this forum posting about the Pantheon</a>.Morell Thule is one of two sub deities created by two diametrically opposed gods of influence. Legends say that the deities of Fear and Tranquility battled over the dream world, and after neither of them gained any ground, they each put forth a portion of their power, creating the twin deities Morell and Terris Thule.I think the problem here is that you all are assuming Quellious and Cazic created Morell and Terris the mortal way. They are gods, after all... They don't have to do things that way!</blockquote>Thanks, that actually makes sense. It was basically a treaty after it became clear they were at an impasse...I can buy that. It's not squick at all. I am curious as to where this information comes from, though. The poster of that thread seemed to know a lot, but it's difficult to tell where the canon ends and personal opinion (if any) begins.And I know they didn't have to "do the deed" to create demi-gods (hence "the same rules don't apply"), but they were being described as "parents" and such...and my mind rarely strays out of the gutter for long.

Kamimura

11-25-2009, 10:51 PM

<cite>Caethas@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>Thanks, that actually makes sense. It was basically a treaty after it became clear they were at an impasse...I can buy that. It's not squick at all. I am curious as to where this information comes from, though. The poster of that thread seemed to know a lot, but it's difficult to tell where the canon ends and personal opinion (if any) begins.</blockquote>Oh, duh, I totally read that wrong - that does make sense then, that they'd decide to work together because of that. Still wondering where the information came from though, as you are.

Homeskillet

11-25-2009, 11:03 PM

<cite>Sorako@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Aurelis wrote:</cite><blockquote>Okay! I knew I had read something about this (Quellious and the Thules) before and I found it on <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=378866" target="_blank">this forum posting about the Pantheon</a>.</blockquote>Hmm.. that is interesting. I'm left wondering two things, though. First, where that information originally came from. Second, if it is true, I wonder why two deities who really don't get along would do that. Confusing, but interesting...</blockquote>Well after seeing EQ2 now following in lockstep behind Aion with the whole advanced player features being free on EQ2players, maybe they will also start maintaining a lore site just like Aion does too, in order to clarify some of the things that should not be so ambiguous.

Aurel

11-26-2009, 12:26 AM

Yay! Okay! I did some serious digging and I think I found where that information came from. Someone posted a comment at <a href="http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/search.shtml?id=10334" target="_blank">Everquest's Allakhazam site</a> on an entry about Terris:I dont know many official lore sites, just bits and pieces here and there, but the mother of Terris and morrel Thule is none other than Quellious believe it or not. Found this out from an npc's flavor text in EQOA Arcadin. If you feel like it you can check it out lol but I doubt you will <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Don't shoot me, I'm just the Google-scrambling messenger!

DukeOccam

11-26-2009, 12:45 AM

Bleh, EQOA.I wish they'd have a lore area/website/encyclopedia too. The usual reason is that we're meant to figure it out ourselves, have debates, have stuff to wonder about, etc. I think that's just a cop-out though.

Kulaf

11-26-2009, 01:55 AM

I too have to agree that it is Morrel Thule. However everyone keeps saying one of the dream sequences took place in Karnor's and I swear that place was lower Sebilis. Morrel had a part in the creation of the Frogloks so Seb seems to make more sense.That said here is my theory. When the Gods closed off the gateways to our realm they in some form hampered their avatars from being reached by us or from reaching us. Only through the actions of the mortals have more and more Gods returned to Norrath. I believe Morrel locked his Avatar in a dream prison and put the keys out of his reach. Only by mortals bringing him the keys could he be freed.So we have freed his Avatar and now he can once again have contact with mortals.

The_Cheeseman

11-26-2009, 02:08 AM

Honestly, it seemed to me like this being represented the "Hopes and Dreams of all Norrath" like he was some kind of symbolic entity. I admit that the idea of Morell-Thule did occur to me, but mostly because that was the EQ1 server I played on since it opened. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I honestly don't think this event has any bearing on future plot lines, and was merely a neat little side-event to commemorate EQ2's half-decade anniversary. I mean, traveling through each expansion, in order of release, to collect memories? Seems like they were just giving players a little trip down memory lane, that's all. I'd be surprised if this event had anything to do with Theer, and I'd be absolutely flabbergasted if it involved Kerafyrm. It might allude Morell-Thule, but that doesn't make me believe that the god of dreams will be in any way involved in the future story lines of EQ2.

Kriptini

11-26-2009, 03:02 AM

<cite>Homeskillet wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Eveningsong wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kriptini@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Mirander@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sounds like Morrel Thule to me.</blockquote>Nope, you're wrong.</blockquote>No, I think he's right. We were talking about it on Test chat last night, and I pointed out that D'armer is an acronym for "dreamer", and Thumore is very close to "Morell Thul", just drop all the "L"s and swap the order. I am not an expert on Morell-Thule but if I recall correctly, he is the god of dreams. There's some info on The Athenaeum <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.lorelibrary.com/?page=book&bid=170" target="_blank">http://www.lorelibrary.com/?page=book&bid=170</a> that indicates that Morell-Thule impregnated Erollisi Marr to spawn the race of Northmen (Barbarians?). Could be a Halas/new expansion connection there <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />.</blockquote>LOL, I like how she read up until she saw your post and responded to that rather than read the rest of the thread where we stomp your claim into the ground Kriptini.</blockquote>TBH, I wasn't so excited about being stoned alive by the community until I recognized all the extra publicity I've been getting! ^_^I think I could best some of these other guys in attention-hoarding!

DukeOccam

11-26-2009, 03:32 AM

<cite>The_Cheeseman wrote:</cite><blockquote>Honestly, it seemed to me like this being represented the "Hopes and Dreams of all Norrath" like he was some kind of symbolic entity. I admit that the idea of Morell-Thule did occur to me, but mostly because that was the EQ1 server I played on since it opened. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" />I honestly don't think this event has any bearing on future plot lines, and was merely a neat little side-event to commemorate EQ2's half-decade anniversary. I mean, traveling through each expansion, in order of release, to collect memories? Seems like they were just giving players a little trip down memory lane, that's all. I'd be surprised if this event had anything to do with Theer, and I'd be absolutely flabbergasted if it involved Kerafyrm. It might allude Morell-Thule, but that doesn't make me believe that the god of dreams will be in any way involved in the future story lines of EQ2.</blockquote>What he says at the end kind of hints toward something though.You say to Thumore D'armer, "I believe I was. Is this what you were looking for?"Thumore D'armer says to you, "You have done a tremendous service. Not just to me, but quite possibly, to all of Norrath as well. Now that I have all of the shards of my lost self, I can finally break free of this world, and return to the world I once called home."You say to Thumore D'armer, "You mean to the Heroes' Festival? I know many people were waiting for you."Thumore D'armer says to you, "No... I mean return to the memories and dreams of all across Norrath, return to my place I gave up so long ago. The memories and dreams of Norrath have helped to hold my shattered self until you came to help me gather those shards once again. Now, I am finally whole."You say to Thumore D'armer, "Wait... those weren't your dreams? Just who are you?"Thumore D'armer "You will know me once again. Now awaken, my friend. Your service will not be forgotten."

Mythanote

11-26-2009, 03:44 AM

Not to be a party crasher... But I thought I read when they announced SF, that they would not be introducing any new worshipable dieties thru the expansion or any of the GU's. Now, I could be wrong, but I swore I read that in a dev chat/ SOE Fan faire, somewhere... Doesnt mean they wont expand on this storyline, just thought I would mention.

Meirril

11-26-2009, 04:31 AM

<cite>Mythanote@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>Not to be a party crasher... But I thought I read when they announced SF, that they would not be introducing any new worshipable dieties thru the expansion or any of the GU's. Now, I could be wrong, but I swore I read that in a dev chat/ SOE Fan faire, somewhere... Doesnt mean they wont expand on this storyline, just thought I would mention.</blockquote>I'd be more disappointed that it mean they fully intended to kill Erollisi and player response means nothing to them. I don't belive it though.

Cusashorn

11-26-2009, 04:36 AM

Honestly, I've been hearing about the creation stories for the Thule siblings for a very long time now, but I've never actually been able to confirm any of it in the game itself. I don't know where it originated from or by who. It's almost like a stand alone complex in the lore. We're not certain who takes credit for it, but it seems to be official.

Mythanote

11-26-2009, 04:43 AM

PS. Is it just me checking for first time in a looong time, but is there new paintings on the city merchants? (At least on Tatterhorn, near the dreamer in North Qeynos). One's called * A Moment with Lucan * *Love's Lost Arrow * *Avenging the Crabs of Jarsath* (and a few more I havent noticed since when I decorated the house/ guild hall). Not really related to this thread, so excuse me if wrong spot.Edit - They all say for sale for a limited time in the description by various painters (one being Crabbok!?!) <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> (All by various painters, thinking winners of some event?)

glowsintheda

11-26-2009, 04:57 AM

<cite>Kulanae@Blackburrow wrote:</cite><blockquote>I too have to agree that it is Morrel Thule. However everyone keeps saying one of the dream sequences took place in Karnor's and I swear that place was lower Sebilis. Morrel had a part in the creation of the Frogloks so Seb seems to make more sense.That said here is my theory. When the Gods closed off the gateways to our realm they in some form hampered their avatars from being reached by us or from reaching us. Only through the actions of the mortals have more and more Gods returned to Norrath. I believe Morrel locked his Avatar in a dream prison and put the keys out of his reach. Only by mortals bringing him the keys could he be freed.So we have freed his Avatar and now he can once again have contact with mortals.</blockquote>Its definatly Karnor's, it uses the same map file as karnors if you open your map while you are there.

Kamimura

11-26-2009, 05:38 AM

<cite>Mythanote@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>Edit - They all say for sale for a limited time in the description by various painters (one being Crabbok!?!) <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /> (All by various painters, thinking winners of some event?)</blockquote>Yeah, they're all fan submitted for an anniversary contest some while back. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Mary the Prophetess

11-26-2009, 11:35 AM

You could very well be right that this event was nothing more than a nostalgic look back through the expansions at EQ2.However just like Tolkien, "The tale grew in the telling" It might be the case that by our interest and responses, we are creating a self-fulfilling prophecy for ourselves.The designers may look at this thread and say, 'Hmm, we may be on to something here. What would happen if....'Just a thought.

Gninja

11-26-2009, 12:26 PM

<cite>Mythanote@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>Not to be a party crasher... But I thought I read when they announced SF, that they would not be introducing any new worshipable dieties thru the expansion or any of the GU's. Now, I could be wrong, but I swore I read that in a dev chat/ SOE Fan faire, somewhere... Doesnt mean they wont expand on this storyline, just thought I would mention.</blockquote>There won't be any new worshipable deities with the expansion. That does not mean we might sneak some in down the road but for the expansion we don't currently have a plan to add one as we pretty much have a full plate.

Zabjade

11-26-2009, 02:17 PM

<cite>Gninja wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Mythanote@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>Not to be a party crasher... But I thought I read when they announced SF, that they would not be introducing any new worshipable dieties thru the expansion or any of the GU's. Now, I could be wrong, but I swore I read that in a dev chat/ SOE Fan faire, somewhere... Doesnt mean they wont expand on this storyline, just thought I would mention.</blockquote>There won't be any new worshipable deities with the expansion. That does not mean we might sneak some in down the road but for the expansion we don't currently have a plan to add one as we pretty much have a full plate.</blockquote>Probably with Halas is my guess making it free content. Gninja Like the Sig pic, you gnome SOoo needs a topknot though! <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Need to get off my lazy butt and make one myself.

Enna

11-26-2009, 04:19 PM

Did nobody else notice that Erollisi's three protectors, the "sister" elf ghosts in the shard of Love, speak of each having her own job regarding from whom she was protecting Erollisi?One of the three was specificially protecting Erollisi from "The Dreamweaver" ... So although Mr. Thule Jr. fought against his [half??] sister and father, he clearly wasn't all good. He couldn't have been, else Tunare would not have assigned one of her elves specifically to protect young Erollisi from him.Yes, it appears likely that the individual we are assisting, who so mysteriously vanishes and is immediately forgotten by all but ourselves, may be The Dreamweaver.However, since the reason he split Mithaniel's essence and assisted him is not clearly explained, it is *possible* that was done merely to spite his relatives. That process may be how he learned it was possible to preserve himself the same way.Or else his absence from Norrathian history is a side-effect of his being shattered, perhaps with a bit of help from either his own father or Tarew Marr, in retaliation for what he did to create the Halasians/Northmen/Barbarians and Frogloks.Since it has been plainly said that "Sentinel's Fate" itself will not add any pantheon members, if he is added in it shan't be by way of Odus. Those Dev-ious folk behind the scenes are always cooking up something to keep us on our toes!I daresay time will tell, one way or another. Pity we cannot know if we're talking about a little time or a lot of it, though!I enjoy mysteries, provided they do eventually find a solution. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" />PS -- <a href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/news_archive_content.vm?month=062009&id=3141" target="_blank">Art contest specifics</a> (for any who were curious). More info in <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?&topic_id=463196" target="_blank">Homeshow Forum posts</a>. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />(Edit: /punt typos)

Aral

11-26-2009, 06:09 PM

I'm sorry but everyone has missed the obvious. Thumore D'armer is...A MURDERER MOTHMothra has come. Let the Japanese children sing.

Arkenor

11-26-2009, 09:19 PM

When I first saw Thumore d'Armer, I first thought of "d'Amore", meaning, of course, "of Love".But you's right. It probably was Morrell Thule. I seems to be meetings a lot of gods these days.Unless I's getting very mixed up, did not Morrel Thule once holds the essence of shinies Mithaniel Marr, and use it to be creatings the Frogloks and Barbarians, before placings it within Erollisi to be reborns?I checkeds my library. From Pond to Paladin 2 is statings:<blockquote>Morell-Thule, the forsaken son of Cazic, and brother of Terris, took notice of Terris manipulations of the slumbering God, for while Terris is the Queen of Nightmares, Morell is the King of Dreams. For reasons unknown, perhaps simply to foul the plans of his wicked father and sister, Morell-Thule stole the gift of life that had been taken from the slumbering Mithaniel and escaped into his Demi-Plane of Dreams. Knowing that his enraged family would soon visit his home, Morell divided Mithaniels Gift of Life, scattering one half across all the swamps of Norrath, the sacred lands of his father, Cazic-Thule.Where Mithaniels Gift of Life fell upon the swamps of Norrath, the first Froglok Tads were born. Those first Tads had the hardest trials of our people. Until that point, the swamps belonged only to the foul and destructive creatures of the dark gods. Fortunately the gift of life that had brought our first ancestors into being also empowered them with the bravery and valor Mithaniel Marr had exhibited during his trials in the mortal realms.Once the swamps had been seeded with the first of our kind, the Lord of Dreams, Morell-Thule, visited Mithaniel Marr's twin sister, Erollisi Marr. While the Goddess of Love blissfully rested in the lands of the fair elves, Morell-Thule visited her in a dream and gave to her the second half of Mithaniel's Gift of Life. It was soon to be evident to the fair elves that their visiting daughter of the Gods was with child and they took her to an uninhabited region of the frozen northlands of Antonica, where they could tend to and guard her in seclusion.</blockquote>Which is leadings me to be thinkings:a) He seems very nices and shinies. Is there actually beings any records of him being means? He sends me the very nice dreams, and maybe the odds ones too, which are still quite funs. Actuallies, most my dreams are being the odds, but then I do eats a lot of cheeses before bedtime. Its his means and horridish sister Terris that is sendings the dreams of the Ratonga-eatings cheesemen. Ah, anyways, if you think's he a meanie, be provings it! Don't be judgings hims on what his father and sister are doings.b) He very goods at making the deads gods not be deads anymores. Maybes he kepts a bit of Erollisi. Might have had to scoop some Erollisi out to make the rooms for Mithaniel as he quites large. And glowy.c) If he can't bring Erollisi backs, maybe he's going to look after her portfolio. A god of Dreams AND Romantic Love might not be workings too badly, especially if he is havings some of her essence. That Thumore d'Armer does remind of both Morrell Thule and Amore might be lendings some supports to this, but then the anagrams can be meanings just about anythings.d) If the moons really going to be hittings my eyes like the big pizza pies, can it be havings the extra cheeses, and no mushrooms pleases.

Cusashorn

11-26-2009, 11:55 PM

<cite>ltheas@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>When I first saw Thumore d'Armer, I first thought of "d'Amore", meaning, of course, "of Love".But you's right. It probably was Morrell Thule. I seems to be meetings a lot of gods these days.Unless I's getting very mixed up, did not Morrel Thule once holds the essence of shinies Mithaniel Marr, and use it to be creatings the Frogloks and Barbarians, before placings it within Erollisi to be reborns?I checkeds my library. From Pond to Paladin 2 is statings:<blockquote>Morell-Thule, the forsaken son of Cazic, and brother of Terris, took notice of Terris manipulations of the slumbering God, for while Terris is the Queen of Nightmares, Morell is the King of Dreams. For reasons unknown, perhaps simply to foul the plans of his wicked father and sister, Morell-Thule stole the gift of life that had been taken from the slumbering Mithaniel and escaped into his Demi-Plane of Dreams. Knowing that his enraged family would soon visit his home, Morell divided Mithaniels Gift of Life, scattering one half across all the swamps of Norrath, the sacred lands of his father, Cazic-Thule.Where Mithaniels Gift of Life fell upon the swamps of Norrath, the first Froglok Tads were born. Those first Tads had the hardest trials of our people. Until that point, the swamps belonged only to the foul and destructive creatures of the dark gods. Fortunately the gift of life that had brought our first ancestors into being also empowered them with the bravery and valor Mithaniel Marr had exhibited during his trials in the mortal realms.Once the swamps had been seeded with the first of our kind, the Lord of Dreams, Morell-Thule, visited Mithaniel Marr's twin sister, Erollisi Marr. While the Goddess of Love blissfully rested in the lands of the fair elves, Morell-Thule visited her in a dream and gave to her the second half of Mithaniel's Gift of Life. It was soon to be evident to the fair elves that their visiting daughter of the Gods was with child and they took her to an uninhabited region of the frozen northlands of Antonica, where they could tend to and guard her in seclusion.</blockquote>Which is leadings me to be thinkings:a) He seems very nices and shinies. Is there actually beings any records of him being means? He sends me the very nice dreams, and maybe the odds ones too, which are still quite funs. Actuallies, most my dreams are being the odds, but then I do eats a lot of cheeses before bedtime. Its his means and horridish sister Terris that is sendings the dreams of the Ratonga-eatings cheesemen. Ah, anyways, if you think's he a meanie, be provings it! Don't be judgings hims on what his father and sister are doings.b) He very goods at making the deads gods not be deads anymores. Maybes he kepts a bit of Erollisi. Might have had to scoop some Erollisi out to make the rooms for Mithaniel as he quites large. And glowy.c) If he can't bring Erollisi backs, maybe he's going to look after her portfolio. A god of Dreams AND Romantic Love might not be workings too badly, especially if he is havings some of her essence. That Thumore d'Armer does remind of both Morrell Thule and Amore might be lendings some supports to this, but then the anagrams can be meanings just about anythings.d) If the moons really going to be hittings my eyes like the big pizza pies, can it be havings the extra cheeses, and no mushrooms pleases.</blockquote>.... He's roleplaying as a Ratonga in a discussion of the lore? Well, at least it still makes sense.. or most of it does.Grammar aside.... Lets see here...A: Morrel Thule is the Ying to Terris Thule's Yang. They're complete opposites, so giving a bad dream isn't really within Morrell's job description. Though, I suppose by how bad you define "Bad" dream, you could say he might have an off night now and then. Was it a bad dream, or just a mediocre and forgetable dream?B: While it's true that he helped save and recreate Mithanial Marr, this is really the only documented case of him doing, well, really ANYTHING of significance for Norrath's lore. I would certainly be nice if he did somehow get a part of Erollisi's spirit to bring her back. I find myself wondering how this will happen if that's the case. Maybe Quellious or Tunare will be involved, since both of their prophets are helping out with the Sisterhood of Erollisi's investigation.C: the "Amore" or "Love" part of his name had run through my mind as well. While I certainly wouldn't mind it if he became a new God of Love, I'd rather have Erollisi come back and retake her position. MT is already forsaken by the rest of the Thules. If he became the God of Love, I could see the Thules attacking him just because of it.D: Yes please. I like pizza with extra cheese, and I can't stand eating any type of Mushroom.

DukeOccam

11-27-2009, 04:20 AM

The thing that most convinced me it was Morrell Thule (or at least not Kerafyrm) was Thumore's calmness. He never had the "HAHAHAHA FOOLISH MORTALS" thing that I was expecting after I started suspecting a twist ending was coming up.I mean sure, he deceived us, but he seemed very laid back about it, didn't make any threats, and told us we had done something good for all of Norrath.The only reservation I still have is that Morrell Thule has been pretty minor in terms of relevance to players before. It feels like they go with the main players or bring in their own inventions (Anashti for example). Bringing in a relative unknown would be interesting, but also unexpected.

Homeskillet

11-27-2009, 06:26 AM

<cite>Caethas@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>The thing that most convinced me it was Morrell Thule (or at least not Kerafyrm) was Thumore's calmness. He never had the "HAHAHAHA FOOLISH MORTALS" thing that I was expecting after I started suspecting a twist ending was coming up.I mean sure, he deceived us, but he seemed very laid back about it, didn't make any threats, and told us we had done something good for all of Norrath.The only reservation I still have is that Morrell Thule has been pretty minor in terms of relevance to players before. It feels like they go with the main players or bring in their own inventions (Anashti for example). Bringing in a relative unknown would be interesting, but also unexpected.</blockquote>The benefit here is that you are 100% correct, he has been relatively minor in terms of relevance to players before, which if used correctly and not just tossed in as another diety for players means a possibility of fresh new lore and gameplay. As much as the void stuff has been obnoxious, I like the unique diversions away from the typical conflicts dealt with in EQ1 and even early EQ2. The playing ground is fairly level for certain lesser gods to possibly come into their own in new and interesting ways.

Enna

11-27-2009, 11:01 AM

We do have a recent bit of in-game lore from the Shard of Love, which at least mentions Morell Thule -- by title if not by name:================================================== =================================Lanielle says to you, "She went to Valor. I remember that. My sisters of protection, they may know more!"You say to Lanielle, "I tried to ask them, but they know even less than you."Lanielle says to you, "They must be unable to see past the fog that has enveloped us. You must be helping me see through it!"You say to Lanielle, "Why can I help you and not them?"Lanielle says to you, "My blessing. The one I was gifted with when I chose to defend Tarew's daughter, Erollisi Marr."You say to Lanielle, "What do you mean?"Lanielle says to you, "She was bathed in light, a goddess amongst mortals, chased by the children of Hate and Fear into the Elddar Forest! We welcomed her and embraced her in love, just as she embraced love with her divinity."You say to Lanielle, "You were there, so many centuries ago?!"Lanielle says to you, "My eyes did see the miracle! I was one of three who were chosen by the Mother of All to protect the young goddess from the minions of darkness. We escorted her to the frozen lands."You say to Lanielle, "Where the Barbarian race was born."Lanielle says to you, "Precisely. Mere mortals we were, each blessed by Tunare with the strength and ability to better protect the expecting Goddess from the advances, trickery and corruptive plots of the Prince of Hate, the Faceless and the Dream Weaver."You say to Lanielle, "Impressive."Lanielle says to you, "I was to protect her against the influence of dreams. Arawen is... was? Love's Protector against hate. Gwestanna was blessed with powers against fear. But we failed her. She is gone."================================================== =================================... the rest of that initial Quest's text in Shard of Love deals specifically with Erollisi, but the part quoted above (pasted from my log, editing out time stamps and the like) references "The Dream Weaver" fairly specifically. The first ghost you meet in the Shard of Love was assigned to protect Erollisi from him. That was her job, and she received special blessings from Tunare to assist her in this task.So Morell Thule cannot be 100% good, though he is apparently less evil than his sister and father.Speaking of Erollisi, by the way, it's interesting that she moves in her coffin. If she's supposed to be 100% dead, they didn't need to animate her so that her hands move. *grins*

Snowdonia

11-27-2009, 11:27 AM

Here's you some name word play and background to back it up.Erollisi Marr server and deity in EQ1 was always refered to as EMarr (I know, I played on it). So, this kinda introduces some INet/EQ slang.Bearing that in mind, I came up with this anagram for Thumore D'armer...murder EMarr thoYes, very unlikely, but I thought it was kinda neat to find an INet/EQ slang based anagram from the letters we were given instead of adding stuff or conjecturing. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Cusashorn

11-27-2009, 11:32 AM

<cite>Enna wrote:</cite><blockquote>Lanielle says to you, "Precisely. Mere mortals we were, each blessed by Tunare with the strength and ability to better protect the expecting Goddess from the advances, trickery and corruptive plots of the Prince of Hate, the Faceless and the Dream Weaver."You say to Lanielle, "Impressive."Lanielle says to you, "I was to protect her against the influence of dreams. Arawen is... was? Love's Protector against hate. Gwestanna was blessed with powers against fear. But we failed her. She is gone."================================================== =================================... the rest of that initial Quest's text in Shard of Love deals specifically with Erollisi, but the part quoted above (pasted from my log, editing out time stamps and the like) references "The Dream Weaver" fairly specifically. The first ghost you meet in the Shard of Love was assigned to protect Erollisi from him. That was her job, and she received special blessings from Tunare to assist her in this task.So Morell Thule cannot be 100% good, though he is apparently less evil than his sister and father.Speaking of Erollisi, by the way, it's interesting that she moves in her coffin. If she's supposed to be 100% dead, they didn't need to animate her so that her hands move. *grins*</blockquote>Morrell Thule is 100% good. I interpret that statement as "Protect her from losing focus because of any dreams she may recieve.They do that for all corpses btw. Anything that isn't part of the actual environment is just another NPC laying down, with natural breathing animations, and will often turn to face you if directly hailed.

Lodrelhai

11-27-2009, 06:00 PM

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Enna wrote:</cite><blockquote>Lanielle says to you, "Precisely. Mere mortals we were, each blessed by Tunare with the strength and ability to better protect the expecting Goddess from the advances, trickery and corruptive plots of the Prince of Hate, the Faceless and the Dream Weaver."You say to Lanielle, "Impressive."Lanielle says to you, "I was to protect her against the influence of dreams. Arawen is... was? Love's Protector against hate. Gwestanna was blessed with powers against fear. But we failed her. She is gone."================================================== =================================... the rest of that initial Quest's text in Shard of Love deals specifically with Erollisi, but the part quoted above (pasted from my log, editing out time stamps and the like) references "The Dream Weaver" fairly specifically. The first ghost you meet in the Shard of Love was assigned to protect Erollisi from him. That was her job, and she received special blessings from Tunare to assist her in this task.So Morell Thule cannot be 100% good, though he is apparently less evil than his sister and father.Speaking of Erollisi, by the way, it's interesting that she moves in her coffin. If she's supposed to be 100% dead, they didn't need to animate her so that her hands move. *grins*</blockquote>Morrell Thule is 100% good. I interpret that statement as "Protect her from losing focus because of any dreams she may recieve.They do that for all corpses btw. Anything that isn't part of the actual environment is just another NPC laying down, with natural breathing animations, and will often turn to face you if directly hailed.</blockquote>Alternately, they could have been protecting her from Terris, who also manipulates dreams. She's not a subdiety to her brother, after all.Morrell impregnating Erollisi could also have been seen as an attack, if her guardians and Tunare were unaware who's essense he had placed within her. That they were taking her to the north shows she was already pregnant at this time. Not hard to imagine they'd be worried about what other plans he might have for the young goddess.

Homeskillet

11-27-2009, 07:14 PM

It is kind if interesting that they reference, "Dreamweaver" specifically and what they had to protect her from exactly. It could indeed have been something benign. I hesitate to think they would be referring to Terris honestly as Terris Thule is clearly referred to as the "Dream Scorcher" or "Nightmare".

Mary the Prophetess

11-27-2009, 08:30 PM

Not to put too fine a point on it, but if memory serves, Morell Thule is known as the Lord of Dreams rather than as the Dream Weaver. That may be a distinction without a difference, but one never knows.

Meirril

11-27-2009, 08:30 PM

<cite>Lodrelhai wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Enna wrote:</cite><blockquote>Lanielle says to you, "Precisely. Mere mortals we were, each blessed by Tunare with the strength and ability to better protect the expecting Goddess from the advances, trickery and corruptive plots of the Prince of Hate, the Faceless and the Dream Weaver."You say to Lanielle, "Impressive."Lanielle says to you, "I was to protect her against the influence of dreams. Arawen is... was? Love's Protector against hate. Gwestanna was blessed with powers against fear. But we failed her. She is gone."================================================== =================================... the rest of that initial Quest's text in Shard of Love deals specifically with Erollisi, but the part quoted above (pasted from my log, editing out time stamps and the like) references "The Dream Weaver" fairly specifically. The first ghost you meet in the Shard of Love was assigned to protect Erollisi from him. That was her job, and she received special blessings from Tunare to assist her in this task.So Morell Thule cannot be 100% good, though he is apparently less evil than his sister and father.Speaking of Erollisi, by the way, it's interesting that she moves in her coffin. If she's supposed to be 100% dead, they didn't need to animate her so that her hands move. *grins*</blockquote>Morrell Thule is 100% good. I interpret that statement as "Protect her from losing focus because of any dreams she may recieve.They do that for all corpses btw. Anything that isn't part of the actual environment is just another NPC laying down, with natural breathing animations, and will often turn to face you if directly hailed.</blockquote>Alternately, they could have been protecting her from Terris, who also manipulates dreams. She's not a subdiety to her brother, after all.Morrell impregnating Erollisi could also have been seen as an attack, if her guardians and Tunare were unaware who's essense he had placed within her. That they were taking her to the north shows she was already pregnant at this time. Not hard to imagine they'd be worried about what other plans he might have for the young goddess.</blockquote>This raises a good point. Morell Thule doesn't exactly reveil his plans to anyone, and as a Thule people don't really trust him.I can't agree with Cusa on this point. While Morell isn't an evil diety, you can't claim him to be wholly good. At best you can say he favors the Marr twins. At worse, you can say he opposed his own family out of spite. When the good dieties make a stand and look for support from other dieties, we've never herd of them (or anyone else) approaching Morell Thule.It would be funny to hear about Morell Thule, Bristlebane, and Luclin plotting to do something. Out of the three, Bristlebane is the most public and even his purposes are hidden. Whatever they plotted, nobody would know until it was done.

Zabjade

11-27-2009, 11:41 PM

Maybe it was a forbidden love between E-Marr and MT?

Jgok

11-27-2009, 11:58 PM

After reading through this entire thread, I feel pretty confident in thinking that he's Morrell Thule. While I don't think he's going to be a player-worshipped deity any time soon (if ever), I do believe he's going to play a significant part in the revival of Erollisi Marr.It would be rather appropriate for him to want to bring Erollisi back. He's already shown a keen interest in the Marr twins, considering he effectively arranged the creation of two sentient races just to bring her brother back. Who knows? Maybe he's always had the hots for Erollisi, so he arranged her brother's return just because he loved her.I may be wrong in thinking this, but it sounds like Morrell's essence was shattered around the same time Erollisi was killed. Perhaps the Thule brothers tried to take him out while Inny was going for her. Perhaps his possible relationship with her was what prompted Inny and the Thule bros to take them out.So, in my quite possibly conspiracy-deluged thought process, this has already happened...<ol><li>MT loves EM but she either doesn't get it or doesn't want him</li><li>MM gets whacked, EM grieves for her lost brother</li><li>MT creates frogloks and impregnates EM with barbies</li><li>frogloks and barbies meet up and MM is reborn</li><li>EM realizes MT really does love her, and godly humping ensues</li><li>The Thules decide MT has finally gone too far, so they hire Inny to take out EM</li><li>While EM is occupied with getting her bum kicked by Inny, the Thules take out MT</li><li>SOMETHING prompts the SoE (Sisterhood of Erollisi) to start beating the drum for their dead goddess</li><li>Despite being dead, some of EM's influence returns to Norrath with discovery of the SoL (Shard of Love)</li><li>MT's dream fragments notice this and start trying to get back in shape</li></ol>So in the future (equally paranoid strange/wierd thought processes)...<ol><li>MT uses dreams to influence the SoE and start them on reviving EM</li><li>More quests from the SoE over the next year change the SoL</li><li>More quests from MT over the next year increases his influence over dreams</li><li>Quests from MM confuse the whole issue cuz he wants EM back but doesn't trust MT</li><li>Eventually, the time for EM's revival draws near</li><li>Inny and the Thules don't want that to happen</li><li>Big huge battle, Inny and the Thules almost win</li><li>MT sacrifices his remaining essence to revive EM, dying in the process, on Valentine's Day 2011</li></ol>MT - Morell ThuleEM - Erollisi MarrMM - Mithaniel MarrSoE - Sisterhood of ErollisiSoL - Shard of LoveWell, probably not, but it would make for an interesting story that way, no?

Lodrelhai

11-28-2009, 12:44 AM

Minor quibbles.Erollisi was not Inny's target; Mithaniel was. Erollisi found out about the trap for her brother somehow (I don't recall, do they ever say how?) and went to save her brother by sacraficing herself. The evil-side quest last Erollisi day and the current quest dialogues in SoL both confirm this.I'm not sure what Thule "brothers" you mean. Cazic isn't a brother to Terris or Morrell, he's their dad. And Terris is female, I believe.Finally, I'll note that Thumore D'armer says he gave up his place - it wasn't taken from him. While being shattered was probably not his intention, it seems to be either a side-effect of surrendering his place or, at worst, giving it up made him vulnerable to it. So I doubt the plan was to attack Erollisi in order to punish Morrell.

Shareana

11-28-2009, 12:38 PM

Keep on the discussion please, no sidetracks... I am anxious to see what you guys and girls figure out!

Shandael

11-28-2009, 06:41 PM

My interpretation of the event is a bit different, but it was fascinating reading the interpretations of others to the event.My feelings are that the event *is* directly related to what is going on with Erollisi. Like others believe, I don't think that the devs want overly much on their plates. There's so much going on already.My take;Erollisi was killed and entombed. It was the player event that led us to "knock some sense" into Mithaniel, at which point he shattered Erollisi's tomb releasing her essence shards which floated away. I believe they were somehow found by the evil forces at work and guarded.It was then the players again, who were then sent out to recover Erollisi's spirit shards in this event. I originally believed that Thumore was an agent of Erollisi, thinking the play on his name was more like D'amore (love) the same way they used the spelling for the D'morte (death) adventure. After all, Thumore could have just as easily been talking about the Plane of Love, rather than Morrell talking about his own plane, and that it would take the recovery of Erollisi's scattered shards to make it whole again (ie; her revival). But reading this forum I can go with it being Morell, since after all he did the same thing in a way when Mithaniel was killed. If anything it just asks the question; why is Morrell so protective of the Marr twins?In any case I personally believe the events have everything to do with Erollisi, but it won't be until the promised enhanced Erollisi Day in a few months that we'll discover the truth on how these two events (SoL and the Dreamer) are connected, and the part that players played.Just my perspective on what is transpiring...your mileage may vary <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" />

Rainmare

11-28-2009, 07:25 PM

I think he's Morell. The reason he 'gave up his place' is probably similar to Wu giving up his demi-plane to Quellious to help support the greater planes when they noticed how much damage they did/were doing when they severed ties with norrath, and that he made his 'dream' as a way to preserve himself, though it didn't entirely go as planned.I think he'll be an intergral part of the reviving/restoration of Love and/or Erollisi Marr. We know that E.Marr sacrficed herself to spare her brother. we know that Ulloruuk is probably the ones that did her in, adn that Balor has since erupted into turmoil when Mith Marr was overcome with sorrow and guilt at the death of his sister.he entombed her body, thus 'trapping' her essence in it's mortal coil, so to speak. in SoL, Mithaniel 'frees' her from that prison saying something along the lines of 'may you find rest in this realm, or another' hinting that she could indeed come back to norrath. the light that shines through the catherdal syas to me she won't forsake norrath.I think much like his help with Mithaniel in Innothule Swamp, he'll help restore Erollisi, and offer support to Mithaniel's dealings. Right now, Mith is outnumbered in this conflict, two to one. he's facing Inny and his daughter. I think Morell is going to balance that playing field, offering his assitance to Mithainel.Perhaps he'll even 'restore' E.Marr to flesh by taking her image from Mithaniel's 'dreams' to create a new vessel for her essence. There's alot of things the the God of Dreams can bring to the table, and with the only really well known action of his previous being offering aid to a captured Mith Marr, it's seems likely he'd offer aid again for the restoration of E.Marr ot to at least avenge her mortal death alongside Valor against Hate and Betrayal.

SG_01

11-28-2009, 09:26 PM

There is one more point to the whole event that in some way points to Morell. When you wake up for the last time, the quests in the Heroes Festival become active again (other than his quest). Note that these quests are not marked repeatable. If you think a bit further: Where did these odd portals come from? The ones leading to the expansion zones.This leads me to believe that the one that fell asleep in North Qeynos/Freeport? wasn't Thumore D'armer, but you (the player). This would also explain why he could "sense" you outside his dream "area" within your dream. Within the dream realm he would definitely have powers to steer where your dream takes you, even without his full powers.As for him helping/restoring Erollisi in the future, definitely a possibility looking at their history.

Meirril

11-28-2009, 09:57 PM

<cite>Jgok@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>After reading through this entire thread, I feel pretty confident in thinking that he's Morrell Thule. While I don't think he's going to be a player-worshipped deity any time soon (if ever), I do believe he's going to play a significant part in the revival of Erollisi Marr.It would be rather appropriate for him to want to bring Erollisi back. He's already shown a keen interest in the Marr twins, considering he effectively arranged the creation of two sentient races just to bring her brother back. Who knows? Maybe he's always had the hots for Erollisi, so he arranged her brother's return just because he loved her.I may be wrong in thinking this, but it sounds like Morrell's essence was shattered around the same time Erollisi was killed. Perhaps the Thule brothers tried to take him out while Inny was going for her. Perhaps his possible relationship with her was what prompted Inny and the Thule bros to take them out.So, in my quite possibly conspiracy-deluged thought process, this has already happened...<ol><li>MT loves EM but she either doesn't get it or doesn't want him</li><li>MM gets whacked, EM grieves for her lost brother</li><li>MT creates frogloks and impregnates EM with barbies</li><li>frogloks and barbies meet up and MM is reborn</li><li>EM realizes MT really does love her, and godly humping ensues</li><li>The Thules decide MT has finally gone too far, so they hire Inny to take out EM</li><li>While EM is occupied with getting her bum kicked by Inny, the Thules take out MT</li><li>SOMETHING prompts the SoE (Sisterhood of Erollisi) to start beating the drum for their dead goddess</li><li>Despite being dead, some of EM's influence returns to Norrath with discovery of the SoL (Shard of Love)</li><li>MT's dream fragments notice this and start trying to get back in shape</li></ol>So in the future (equally paranoid strange/wierd thought processes)...<ol><li>MT uses dreams to influence the SoE and start them on reviving EM</li><li>More quests from the SoE over the next year change the SoL</li><li>More quests from MT over the next year increases his influence over dreams</li><li>Quests from MM confuse the whole issue cuz he wants EM back but doesn't trust MT</li><li>Eventually, the time for EM's revival draws near</li><li>Inny and the Thules don't want that to happen</li><li>Big huge battle, Inny and the Thules almost win</li><li>MT sacrifices his remaining essence to revive EM, dying in the process, on Valentine's Day 2011</li></ol>MT - Morell ThuleEM - Erollisi MarrMM - Mithaniel MarrSoE - Sisterhood of ErollisiSoL - Shard of LoveWell, probably not, but it would make for an interesting story that way, no?</blockquote>Wouldn't it make more sense for Morell to be attracted to Mithanial in this senerio? Ya know, just saying...

Meirril

11-28-2009, 09:59 PM

<cite>SG_01 wrote:</cite><blockquote>There is one more point to the whole event that in some way points to Morell. When you wake up for the last time, the quests in the Heroes Festival become active again (other than his quest). Note that these quests are not marked repeatable. If you think a bit further: Where did these odd portals come from? The ones leading to the expansion zones.This leads me to believe that the one that fell asleep in North Qeynos/Freeport? wasn't Thumore D'armer, but you (the player). This would also explain why he could "sense" you outside his dream "area" within your dream. Within the dream realm he would definitely have powers to steer where your dream takes you, even without his full powers.As for him helping/restoring Erollisi in the future, definitely a possibility looking at their history.</blockquote>huh. That's a strong possability, the part where we are sleeping. It also explains how he is able to create a portal in the "waking" world when he is trapped in dream world. In effect, we're dreaming the entire time and he's created a dream within the dream to allow us to help him.

Cusashorn

11-28-2009, 10:07 PM

<cite>Meirril wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>SG_01 wrote:</cite><blockquote>There is one more point to the whole event that in some way points to Morell. When you wake up for the last time, the quests in the Heroes Festival become active again (other than his quest). Note that these quests are not marked repeatable. If you think a bit further: Where did these odd portals come from? The ones leading to the expansion zones.This leads me to believe that the one that fell asleep in North Qeynos/Freeport? wasn't Thumore D'armer, but you (the player). This would also explain why he could "sense" you outside his dream "area" within your dream. Within the dream realm he would definitely have powers to steer where your dream takes you, even without his full powers.As for him helping/restoring Erollisi in the future, definitely a possibility looking at their history.</blockquote>huh. That's a strong possability, the part where we are sleeping. It also explains how he is able to create a portal in the "waking" world when he is trapped in dream world. In effect, we're dreaming the entire time and he's created a dream within the dream to allow us to help him.</blockquote>That gnome that gives you the initial quest in North Qeynos does state that Thumore is an adventurer who has killed every being and been everywhere in Norrath... This was the first thing that came to mind when I did the quest. It could just be an NPC who represents everything the players have done over the game.

TaleraRis

11-29-2009, 05:36 AM

I would have to agree that a lot of things point to Morell Thule in this.To be honest, with the way the people spoke of him as someone significant and legendary and the way the three women were guarding him, I thought of something totally different.It reminded me a lot of Arthur. I thought I had missed some reference to a great hero in Norrath's past, as I've been playing only sporadically lately.It wasn't until the end of the quest that I started thinking of someone more than mortal, and came upon the Morell Thule idea as well.But my first reaction was King Arthur.

Enna

11-29-2009, 01:15 PM

<cite>Gwyneth@Najena wrote:</cite><blockquote>I would have to agree that a lot of things point to Morell Thule in this.To be honest, with the way the people spoke of him as someone significant and legendary and the way the three women were guarding him, I thought of something totally different.It reminded me a lot of Arthur. I thought I had missed some reference to a great hero in Norrath's past, as I've been playing only sporadically lately.It wasn't until the end of the quest that I started thinking of someone more than mortal, and came upon the Morell Thule idea as well.But my first reaction was King Arthur.</blockquote>Come to think of it, "Thumore D'armor" is awfully close to "Morte D'Arthur," a fairly well-known literary work, though it doesn't quite anagram. Intriguing. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />In Pre-Shattering Norrath, Qeynos had guards named Arathur, a variation on Lancelot (I forget the precise spelling) and one or two others. I think one of Arathur's descendants is still among the Qeynos guards.Since Thumore indicates that we've not seen the last of him, I anticipate that his next appearance may explain more. * * * * * *Mr. D'armor being a representative of "the player" seems unlikely, at least to me.The quest scales to level, so that even a level 1 may perform it. How could a level 1 (or any level too low for the Palace of the Ancient One) possibly have traveled to all of those places, and left a portion of himself / herself there?And how could any player voluntarily surrender their ancient home, and then need this specific aid to return to it?I've not known any player class able to open portals to dream worlds, either. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /> * * * * * *I tend to think of Morell Thule as more "neutral" than "good," since we only have documentation of his actions in the creation of the froglok and Northman / Halasian races, and that Tunare considered him a danger to Erollisi. That's not a lot to go on, which leaves it open for many potential interpretations. Without more "canon" lore, all we can do is speculate.For all we know, Morell Thule may have "helped" Mithaniel Marr simply because he received the "red-headed stepchild" treatment from Cazic and Terris, and he feared being their next target if they were successful in slaying one of the "immortal" race. *shrugs unknowingly*It will be interesting to see what the next "crumb" is that the Lore-masters at SOE toss our way on this subject. *grins*

Patrillium

11-29-2009, 02:44 PM

My 2 cents is that Thumore D'armer is the remnant of the pre-shattered Norrath. We went out and gathered his shattered memories, finding out they were not his memories... No evidence, just my gut feeling <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> Too lazy to get evidence... And it is unlikely that my theory is true. So continue discussing <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />

kelvmor

11-29-2009, 03:46 PM

He's Morell-Thule. It's the only reasonable conclusion. He was Cazic-Thule's son by means of impregnating Quellious; as it turns out, Morell was nothing like what Cazic wanted him to be; He is the polar opposite of his sister, the Goddess of Nightmares, Terris-Thule. He's the God of Dreams. The Dream Lord. Tricked Mithaniel Marr and Erollisi into birthing the minotaur. It would be apparent that Morell had left shards of himself in those dream worlds; the home he speaks of would be the Plane of Dreams, the nexus to all Norrathian minds when they sleep. (Of course, the Plane of Nightmares, Terris-Thule's domain, is very similar.)

Kamimura

11-29-2009, 06:40 PM

<cite>SG_01 wrote:</cite><blockquote>When you wake up for the last time, the quests in the Heroes Festival become active again (other than his quest). Note that these quests are not marked repeatable.</blockquote>Actually, I believe they are repeatable again every two hours, regardless of if you do the dream quest or not.

Vaedaer

11-29-2009, 09:27 PM

<cite>kelvmor wrote:</cite><blockquote>He's Morell-Thule. It's the only reasonable conclusion. He was Cazic-Thule's son by means of impregnating Quellious; as it turns out, Morell was nothing like what Cazic wanted him to be; He is the polar opposite of his sister, the Goddess of Nightmares, Terris-Thule. He's the God of Dreams. The Dream Lord. Tricked Mithaniel Marr and Erollisi into birthing the minotaur. It would be apparent that Morell had left shards of himself in those dream worlds; the home he speaks of would be the Plane of Dreams, the nexus to all Norrathian minds when they sleep. (Of course, the Plane of Nightmares, Terris-Thule's domain, is very similar.)</blockquote>Holy ... What?! . . . Cazic impregnating Quellious? Tricking the twins into creating the minotaurs?! Mithaniel Marr created the minotaurs on his early days as a god, the rest I've never heard in my life. Where did you saw that at? lolMorell is a Good deity and iirc, he always opposes cazic and Terris, but I never ever heard/seen/dreamt of him having been the birth from Quellious >_>The reason I say Morell is good is because the evil version of his same type of "element" would be Terris Thule.If they make Morell worshipable I could see him as a good deity for illusionists and they could bring Terris out too so the coercers don't whine : p

Cusashorn

11-29-2009, 09:44 PM

<cite>Vaedaer wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>kelvmor wrote:</cite><blockquote>He's Morell-Thule. It's the only reasonable conclusion. He was Cazic-Thule's son by means of impregnating Quellious; as it turns out, Morell was nothing like what Cazic wanted him to be; He is the polar opposite of his sister, the Goddess of Nightmares, Terris-Thule. He's the God of Dreams. The Dream Lord. Tricked Mithaniel Marr and Erollisi into birthing the minotaur. It would be apparent that Morell had left shards of himself in those dream worlds; the home he speaks of would be the Plane of Dreams, the nexus to all Norrathian minds when they sleep. (Of course, the Plane of Nightmares, Terris-Thule's domain, is very similar.)</blockquote>Holy ... What?! . . . Cazic impregnating Quellious? Tricking the twins into creating the minotaurs?! Mithaniel Marr created the minotaurs on his early days as a god, the rest I've never heard in my life. Where did you saw that at? lolMorell is a Good deity and iirc, he always opposes cazic and Terris, but I never ever heard/seen/dreamt of him having been the birth from Quellious >_>The reason I say Morell is good is because the evil version of his same type of "element" would be Terris Thule.If they make Morell worshipable I could see him as a good deity for illusionists and they could bring Terris out too so the coercers don't whine : p</blockquote>The whole "Cazic and Quellious merging thier essences (not actual impregnation) to create the two gods of the dreamrealm" thing has always just been around the lore, but nobody can ever seem to find a credible source to where this came from. It's like unofficially official lore.I know that Mithanial Marr's prophet tells you how he created the Minotaurs, but I haven't heard anything about Morrell's involvement in it either.

Vaedaer

11-29-2009, 09:54 PM

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vaedaer wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>kelvmor wrote:</cite><blockquote>He's Morell-Thule. It's the only reasonable conclusion. He was Cazic-Thule's son by means of impregnating Quellious; as it turns out, Morell was nothing like what Cazic wanted him to be; He is the polar opposite of his sister, the Goddess of Nightmares, Terris-Thule. He's the God of Dreams. The Dream Lord. Tricked Mithaniel Marr and Erollisi into birthing the minotaur. It would be apparent that Morell had left shards of himself in those dream worlds; the home he speaks of would be the Plane of Dreams, the nexus to all Norrathian minds when they sleep. (Of course, the Plane of Nightmares, Terris-Thule's domain, is very similar.)</blockquote>Holy ... What?! . . . Cazic impregnating Quellious? Tricking the twins into creating the minotaurs?! Mithaniel Marr created the minotaurs on his early days as a god, the rest I've never heard in my life. Where did you saw that at? lolMorell is a Good deity and iirc, he always opposes cazic and Terris, but I never ever heard/seen/dreamt of him having been the birth from Quellious >_>The reason I say Morell is good is because the evil version of his same type of "element" would be Terris Thule.If they make Morell worshipable I could see him as a good deity for illusionists and they could bring Terris out too so the coercers don't whine : p</blockquote>The whole "Cazic and Quellious merging thier essences (not actual impregnation) to create the two gods of the dreamrealm" thing has always just been around the lore, but nobody can ever seem to find a credible source to where this came from. It's like unofficially official lore.I know that Mithanial Marr's prophet tells you how he created the Minotaurs, but I haven't heard anything about Morrell's involvement in it either.</blockquote>The only time I heard about morell lorewise was when he took Marr's gift of life just to foil his Father's plans but nothing else, so that cazic/quellious merge dealy is new to me in all the years I've been playing EQ :S

Aurel

11-30-2009, 12:19 AM

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>The whole "Cazic and Quellious merging thier essences (not actual impregnation) to create the two gods of the dreamrealm" thing has always just been around the lore, but nobody can ever seem to find a credible source to where this came from. It's like unofficially official lore.</blockquote>Define credible. I already pointed at someone who says that it's NPC flavor text in EQOA, and some people seem to turn up their noses at EQOA. *shrug*

Cusashorn

11-30-2009, 02:04 AM

<cite>Aurelis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>The whole "Cazic and Quellious merging thier essences (not actual impregnation) to create the two gods of the dreamrealm" thing has always just been around the lore, but nobody can ever seem to find a credible source to where this came from. It's like unofficially official lore.</blockquote>Define credible. I already pointed at someone who says that it's NPC flavor text in EQOA, and some people seem to turn up their noses at EQOA. *shrug*</blockquote>I've been hearing it since before EQOA, but I can't find where it originated from.

Meirril

11-30-2009, 06:08 AM

<cite>Aurelis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>The whole "Cazic and Quellious merging thier essences (not actual impregnation) to create the two gods of the dreamrealm" thing has always just been around the lore, but nobody can ever seem to find a credible source to where this came from. It's like unofficially official lore.</blockquote>Define credible. I already pointed at someone who says that it's NPC flavor text in EQOA, and some people seem to turn up their noses at EQOA. *shrug*</blockquote>EQOA has always been the redheaded stepchild of EQ Lore. While its useful to point to things in EQOA for things to speculate about, technically it is not cannon to EQ1 or EQ2. Anything created in EQOA can be gleefully adopted or ignored by the EQ2 devs. The same isn't true of EQ1. EQ2's devs need to be mindful of anything that existed upto PoP (and maybe LoY). Fortunately for us, they don't need to be concerned with anything from GoD on. Personally I hate the whole discord storyline even worse than anyone here hates the Void story line.No seriously, its a rediculously stupid waste of an expansion where you have an invading army that never actually invades, or makes a difference in any Norrathian's life except for the busy bodies that stick their nose into it. And you have a floating city ship, otherwise know as the SS Lagboat. And and and...grrr..don't get me started.Still, a refrence in EQOA is better than nothing. Right now, nobody remembers a refrence outside of that one.

Krishti

11-30-2009, 11:19 AM

I really wish I could find where I read it at. But, I remember back in EQ1 seeing that Quellious wanted to calm Cazic or help him to be a nice guy. Cazic was doing something bad at the time Quellious wanted to help fix/stop. Cazic wanted to use Quellious (maybe for kiddies?) I really cant remember anymore. So the 2 of them got together for thier own agendas.Ugh I am getting old! I really wish I could remember where I saw it back then <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I read it long before EQOA came out though.

Stubbswick

11-30-2009, 04:42 PM

Here's my best attempt at an anagram, which I think sums up this epic thread:Thumore D'armer = The Dream RumorA dream that turned into rumors about lore and what the future holds.

Cucuy

12-01-2009, 02:12 PM

I'm all for the anagram thing and thinking Morrell Thule as well, but just maybe taking this a different direction, perhaps the name is a cypher. I'm horrible at those things, but you know, just tossing it out there...

Allystra

12-02-2009, 04:25 PM

I immediately thought of it being Morell-Thule, too (and was practically jumping up and down in my chair because I'm one of his [apparently precious few] fans). I ran to do the quest in Freeport next, pretty much expecting the sleeping person there to be a woman (=Terris), which would have cleared the whole thing of any doubt. However, the fact that it's the same guy there doesn't weaken any of the arguments for it being Morell, I guess.Also, I thought I'd just throw in that it's quite likely that we'll see some change happening to the Shard of Love, as Jgok suggested. The zone is called "Shard of Love: A Moment of Valor", remember? That screams "more instances to come", I'd say.Also, about Erollisi needing protection from "the Dreamweaver" -- I'd agree with Lodrelhai that Tunare and Erollisi simply didn't really know what Morell was up to. And since impregnating Erollisi obviously made her vulnerable, and Morell being 1) a Thule and 2) the mystery-monger that he is, I suppose they'd just rather be on the safe side. OR... wait, conspiracy theory coming up.What if Cazic and Terris got a hold of Morrel shortly after he helped the Marr twins and then used him as a sort of puppet for a long time? Maybe first tried to use him to go after Erollisi - which is why she's got someone protecting her from "the Dreamweaver" - and then (maybe when it didn't really work out because they could not completely subdue him) they just locked him up somehwere for a few thousand years or so. Would explain why we've heard so little about him. Then, lateron, maybe Morell made use of the general upheaval caused by the gods' withdrawal from Norrath to shatter himself into fragments (later to be reassembled) in order to escape capture... That would tie in nicely with "giving up" his domain.Okay... I'll admit that it sounds a bit far-fetched even to my own ears because he'd basically have been out for all that time without anyone ever learning of it, but it'd still be possible.And finally, about the inofficially official bit about Cazic and Quellious creating Morell and Terris because the former two were fighting over the realm of dreams... It kind of makes sense. Should dreams be ruled by fear, or should it be peaceful, tranquil slumber? They'd totally argue about that domain. And Quellious's heritage would explain why Morell is such a black sheep in the merry band of evil divine families... Please correct me if I'm wrong (which I may well be), but as far as I recall, none of the other gods were so radically different in character from the one(s) who made them.(Edit: stupid typos)

Vaedaer

12-02-2009, 07:59 PM

Maybe they actually meant "The Dream scorcher" and not the dream weaver on the dialogue on SoL but they messed up? =oAnywho <a href="http://www.lorelibrary.com/?page=book&bid=170" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lorelibrary.com/?page=book&bid=170</a> From Pond to Paladin >_>

Vanisher123

12-02-2009, 11:03 PM

Here's an off the wall idea, he someone we've never heard of at all!!!Whether it'll lead to what ever's after Theer, or be a subplot in every holiday event, perhaps he's a "new" entity to enter the scene. After all, can't be Zeb (he came back already), could be any number of other anythings, but with eq2 pulling lore from "the lost age" (which didn't exsist before now) perhaps this fellow is from a similar time period, or simply completely unknown all together!! (unlikly, but I can hope)

Coniaric

12-02-2009, 11:12 PM

Basically rehashing what others had said previously, but this are my observations.1. Thumore D'armerAt first glance, or close enough, the name Thumore appeared to be a blend of another name - Morell-Thule. Morell. Thule. Thu More. Kind of a straightforward conclusion at this time.Next is the name D'armer ... I wonder if this is like how Roadyle = Riddle works. The pronunciation or something like that. I cannot tell myself, but maybe someone else can see if D'armer and Dreamer sound alike. But anyway, the spelling came pretty close to saying dreamer, at least.Anagram may be an option, but doesn't seem to be necessary. Though, the term "The Dream Rumor" sounds more likely at this point.2. DreamsHaving us appearing in the collection/place of dreams appeared to be another evidence toward the remerging of Morell-Thule. Also this is the place Thumore stated he had woven for himself. Thumore had control of the dreams, for instance, he was able to bring people into his dream and create portals into dreams or memories where the missing shards are. Clearly we did not go to actual places - but only the memories of those places.Finally when his lost pieces were reassembled, he stated his intention to return to the memories and the dreams of all across Norrath and to return to his place he gave up long ago..Those two are major pieces of evidence that lead to the possiblity of Morell-Thule being involved in the world of EQ2, or coming to be. Other pieces are minor and may not be passable - i.e. Memory of Sand, Memory of Sky, etc being a part of 5-year anniversary.I suppose that maybe the sudden release of Erollisi's trapped essence after so long revived "Thumore" and he needed some help regaining the last few shards that remained. How that came to pass ... I guess the events within the Plane of Time, the Pact (from Tome of Destiny), and probably the fragmenting of the Planes prompted "Thumore" to spread himself out within the memories and dreams of the mortals - thus perserving himself from being lost or being too weakened to defend himself.Of course, the following lines (from Shard of Love) contradicted what Morell-Thule was known as:Lanielle: "Precisely. Mere mortals we were, each blessed by Tunare with the strength and ability to better protect the expecting Goddess from the advances, trickery and corruptive plots of the Prince of Hate, the Faceless and the Dream Weaver."Lanielle: "I was to protect her against the influence of dreams. Arawen is... was? Love's Protector against hate. Gwestanna was blessed with powers against fear. But we failed her. She is gone."The Dream Weaver. Thumore actually mentioned he woven his own dream so maybe that is his title as well. Morell was firstly known as the Lord of Dreams. Also Morell was said to be an ally of Mithaniel Marr and against Cazic and his sister Terris-Thule. Yet, the Dream Weaver was lumped in with the likes of Innorrukk and Cazic-Thule?Then there is this: protect the expecting Goddess ... Erollisi was expecting ... that was centuries ago and the result was the birth of the barbarians. Why protect Erollisi from Morell after the deed was done? Maybe it wasn't Morell Lanielle was to guard against ... maybe it was Terris-Thule after all.Both Morell and Terris appeared to be able to weave dreams and nightmares - and memory by extension. The title can easily be applied to either one of them. So I cannot really determine which one Lanielle was speaking of.

Coniaric

12-02-2009, 11:16 PM

<cite>Vanisher123 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Here's an off the wall idea, he someone we've never heard of at all!!!Whether it'll lead to what ever's after Theer, or be a subplot in every holiday event, perhaps he's a "new" entity to enter the scene. After all, can't be Zeb (he came back already), could be any number of other anythings, but with eq2 pulling lore from "the lost age" (which didn't exsist before now) perhaps this fellow is from a similar time period, or simply completely unknown all together!! (unlikly, but I can hope)</blockquote>And, yes, it may be simply a third party.

Vanisher123

12-02-2009, 11:18 PM

<cite>Coniaric wrote:</cite>Finally when his lost pieces were reassembled, he stated his intention to return to the memories and the dreams of all across Norrath and to return to his place he gave up long ago.Interesting line, perhaps this is someone who no one remebers or remebers wrong? Could explain why some of the people thought of Morrell as evil (if thats what those lines meant) if someone somehow twisted the memories of him to all of norrath.

Pyra Shineflame

12-03-2009, 12:33 AM

<cite>Coniaric wrote:</cite><blockquote>Of course, the following lines (from Shard of Love) contradicted what Morell-Thule was known as:Lanielle: "Precisely. Mere mortals we were, each blessed by Tunare with the strength and ability to better protect the expecting Goddess from the advances, trickery and corruptive plots of the Prince of Hate, the Faceless and the Dream Weaver."Lanielle: "I was to protect her against the influence of dreams. Arawen is... was? Love's Protector against hate. Gwestanna was blessed with powers against fear. But we failed her. She is gone."The Dream Weaver. Thumore actually mentioned he woven his own dream so maybe that is his title as well. Morell was firstly known as the Lord of Dreams. Also Morell was said to be an ally of Mithaniel Marr and against Cazic and his sister Terris-Thule. Yet, the Dream Weaver was lumped in with the likes of Innorrukk and Cazic-Thule?Then there is this: protect the expecting Goddess ... Erollisi was expecting ... that was centuries ago and the result was the birth of the barbarians. Why protect Erollisi from Morell after the deed was done? Maybe it wasn't Morell Lanielle was to guard against ... maybe it was Terris-Thule after all.Both Morell and Terris appeared to be able to weave dreams and nightmares - and memory by extension. The title can easily be applied to either one of them. So I cannot really determine which one Lanielle was speaking of.</blockquote>Actually, if we were to take into account that perhaps each of the phrases belong to a name mentioned, what if she meant protect from Inny's corruptive plots, the Faceless' trickery and the Dreamweaver's advances? In that way, it isn't necessarily that the Dream Weaver would wish Erollisi harm just that its unwanted right now. Typically, though, I would expect Dream Scorcher to be used instead of Weaver if they meant Terris.

Meirril

12-03-2009, 04:23 AM

<cite>Vanisher123 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Here's an off the wall idea, he someone we've never heard of at all!!!Whether it'll lead to what ever's after Theer, or be a subplot in every holiday event, perhaps he's a "new" entity to enter the scene. After all, can't be Zeb (he came back already), could be any number of other anythings, but with eq2 pulling lore from "the lost age" (which didn't exsist before now) perhaps this fellow is from a similar time period, or simply completely unknown all together!! (unlikly, but I can hope)</blockquote>The "lost age" isn't well documented, but it has always existed in EQ Lore. The Combine Empire rose and fell during the Lost Age. The bits and peices of Combine History we know are mostly retrieved from Luclin from the cities of Katta Castelium and Seru. It is supposed that Qeynos and Freeport both got their starts during the Lost Age and were part of the Combine Empire, but its hard to believe. After all, that means both cities lost all written record of their ancient histories. Sure it could happen, but we've got written records of older events so the records skipping an age just doesn't make sense without divine intervention.Now that Divine Intervention would be a convient time to place Anashti's banishment to the void. That could very well explain why the written records are missing because the gods decided to destroy all records of Anashti's existance. Its too bad that it doesn't fit into the timeline because the Combine Empire didn't rise until after the Desert of Ro was created and the Elves abandoned Tunaria.

Stubbswick

12-03-2009, 12:36 PM

I was sorta joking with the anagram thing, "The Dream Rumor". I played around with the letters for a minute or two and came up with that and was like "hey, that's essentially what this thread/event is about." All sorts of rumors floating around about the lore of this guy, and how everything fits together. Honestly, though, there's a lot of common letters in the words - it's easy to form anagrams. Also, there's cases where names are direct anagrams (Tunare = nature), and cases where they aren't.I assumed it was Morell Thule. Thu(le) + More(ll), etc. And all the business about dreams. Makes sense.Honestly, though, I don't think there's anything malevolent about whoever he turns out to be. There's absolutely nothing in the text of the event that indicates he could be. There was deception, but nothing specifically ill-natured. Think of it this way, if you had just succeeded in freeing an evil being, would he sit there and go "thank you! you've just helped save Norrath's future" or whatever? If he was a truly evil being, he probably wouldn't sit around talking kindly, since he really doesn't need you anymore.As far as the zones we go to - I agree. Honestly I didn't read a lot into them as other people have - even the mobs that appear in the zone. They picked a variety of mobs from each expansion, and one simple dungeon to reproduce. You could link any diety to these places/mobs if you wanted to.As far as Theer... I think it's somewhat clear that he's going to be a villain, at least in the next expansion. What I see shaping up is a struggle with the gods vs. Theer, where we help the gods, or us vs. Theer, where the gods help us.

Zeltaria

12-03-2009, 02:26 PM

I don't have anything of interest to comment on, except that I agree with the Morell Thule theory, but I wanted to say that this was a great thread to read and it was very interesting reading everyone's theories. And that I look forward to finding out what happens next. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

DukeOccam

12-03-2009, 03:45 PM

I don't think Morell is all that evil myself, for the same reason I didn't think Thumore was Kerafyrm. There was no "HAHAHAH FOOLISH MORTALS!" moment.I know they don't HAVE to make all evil people like that, but really...they do.What would be kind of interesting is if maybe Morell had a bit of a crush on Erollissi. Unrequited love can be a powerful motivator, and it could explain wanting to protect Erollissi from unwanted advances and the influence of dreams. I don't really have any substantial evidence to back it up though.

Cusashorn

12-03-2009, 03:54 PM

Yeah, Kerafyrm is mentally unstable. There's no way he wouldn't have a FOOLISH MORTALS moment every 10 seconds.

Vaedaer

12-03-2009, 04:10 PM

Besides Kerafyrm is already awake so he isn't the sleeper he is the awakened XP and I agree with cusa, FOOLISH MORTALS! every 10 seconds if it was him.

Rainmare

12-03-2009, 05:01 PM

actually Kerafrym's madness wasn't the 'ha ha ha foolish mortals!' over the top madness. it was the subtle, OCD combined with Meglomania kinda of madness.Kera is in control of his mental facilities. he's able to makes deals, shows of power, decieve and hide himself from mortal eyes despite his 'awesome power'. Kera reminds me more and more of a dragonic Hilter. clearly insane and twisted, but dangerously so because it's not a debilitating madness. he's the 'I killed becuase the voices tol me to and here's thier reasons why' rather then a 'I'm Napoleon!' lunatic.no to put thing back in order and on track.I do agree that the Dream Weaver mention is more about unwanted advances, then any real danger. after all, Morrel just literally got E.Marr pregnant without any even remote form of consent, and Tunare probably didn't want Morelle putting the 'moves' on E.Marr through her dreams, and influencing what was going to occur.

Vanisher123

12-03-2009, 05:02 PM

Not that there is anymore evidence than who it might be, but when we might see whoever this is is something else to think about.If it's morrell I think it's safe to say next erollsi day would be it. Perhaps he'll somehow bring her back.

Coniaric

12-03-2009, 05:59 PM

<cite>Caethas@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>What would be kind of interesting is if maybe Morell had a bit of a crush on Erollissi. Unrequited love can be a powerful motivator, and it could explain wanting to protect Erollissi from unwanted advances and the influence of dreams. I don't really have any substantial evidence to back it up though.</blockquote>If there is an unrequited love or crush ... ought includes Varig Ro in that category. He was willing to trade away his exceptional weapon for a moment of time with Erollisi (which turned to be a trick played by Tholuxe, though).

Kaitheel

12-04-2009, 08:10 PM

Lanielle, Love's Protector in the Shard of Love, explains that she and two others were blessed by Tunare with the strength and ability to better protect Erollisi from the advances, trickery and corruptive plots of the Prince of Hate, the Faceless and the Dream Weaver. This happened after Erollisi had already been impregnated by Morell-Thule’s actions. There was no evidence that Morell-Thule had not been swayed or tricked into action by the gods of darkness, and Tunare felt it best to grant protection from him at the time, hoping it would turn out to be an ultimately unnecessary act. Better to be safe than sorry. But this fact alone should not be taken as evidence that Morell-Thule is evil.~n

Cusashorn

12-04-2009, 11:02 PM

<cite>Kaitheel wrote:</cite><blockquote>Lanielle, Love's Protector in the Shard of Love, explains that she and two others were blessed by Tunare with the strength and ability to better protect Erollisi from the advances, trickery and corruptive plots of the Prince of Hate, the Faceless and the Dream Weaver. This happened after Erollisi had already been impregnated by Morell-Thule’s actions. There was no evidence that Morell-Thule had not been swayed or tricked into action by the gods of darkness, and Tunare felt it best to grant protection from him at the time, hoping it would turn out to be an ultimately unnecessary act. Better to be safe than sorry. But this fact alone should not be taken as evidence that Morell-Thule is evil.~n</blockquote>I would say that despite what little we do know about Morrel, there's more than enough to prove that he's good.

Coniaric

12-05-2009, 05:27 AM

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kaitheel wrote:</cite><blockquote>Lanielle, Love's Protector in the Shard of Love, explains that she and two others were blessed by Tunare with the strength and ability to better protect Erollisi from the advances, trickery and corruptive plots of the Prince of Hate, the Faceless and the Dream Weaver. This happened after Erollisi had already been impregnated by Morell-Thule’s actions. There was no evidence that Morell-Thule had not been swayed or tricked into action by the gods of darkness, and Tunare felt it best to grant protection from him at the time, hoping it would turn out to be an ultimately unnecessary act. Better to be safe than sorry. But this fact alone should not be taken as evidence that Morell-Thule is evil.~n</blockquote>I would say that despite what little we do know about Morrel, there's more than enough to prove that he's good.</blockquote>On that point, I agree with.I had thought it was an odd action to include Morell, but the "be safe than sorry" approach is quite reasonable.

Enna

12-14-2009, 11:00 PM

<cite>Kaitheel wrote:</cite><blockquote>Lanielle, Love's Protector in the Shard of Love, explains that she and two others were blessed by Tunare with the strength and ability to better protect Erollisi from the advances, trickery and corruptive plots of the Prince of Hate, the Faceless and the Dream Weaver. This happened after Erollisi had already been impregnated by Morell-Thule’s actions. There was no evidence that Morell-Thule had not been swayed or tricked into action by the gods of darkness, and Tunare felt it best to grant protection from him at the time, hoping it would turn out to be an ultimately unnecessary act. Better to be safe than sorry. But this fact alone should not be taken as evidence that Morell-Thule is evil.~n</blockquote>I didn't take it so much to mean "evil" as "more neutral than pure good." <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Thank you for the clarification, though!

EQTTEQ

12-16-2009, 06:01 PM

<cite>Allystra@Valor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Also, I thought I'd just throw in that it's quite likely that we'll see some change happening to the Shard of Love, as Jgok suggested. The zone is called "Shard of Love: A Moment of Valor", remember? That screams "more instances to come", I'd say.(Edit: stupid typos)</blockquote>Regarding a change to the Shard of Love... The Valorous Wings are now Black. Has any other loot from the zone changed? I am less likely to think of this as a coding error than a portent.

Liched

12-24-2009, 02:45 PM

This was brought up in another thread but since Morrell is probably going to make an appearanceThe horned lizard with four legs and two more above spoke for the stars. The light of the north sky would follow this great lizard and the lizard would follow it. The white lizard was there when the night would come and was not there when the day warmed our skin. The hooved lizard would show us the fourth secret. We now knew the secret of the Onu's heart. The secret was Ew.<img src="http://bolly.freshinc.co.uk/d_morrell_thule.gif" width="160" height="178" />They also talk of a stone egg that will crack releasing Kaz`zar`aik`chuel (luclin?)

Meirril

12-25-2009, 12:50 AM

<cite>Liched@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>This was brought up in another thread but since Morrell is probably going to make an appearanceThe horned lizard with four legs and two more above spoke for the stars. The light of the north sky would follow this great lizard and the lizard would follow it. The white lizard was there when the night would come and was not there when the day warmed our skin. The hooved lizard would show us the fourth secret. We now knew the secret of the Onu's heart. The secret was Ew.<img src="http://bolly.freshinc.co.uk/d_morrell_thule.gif" width="160" height="178" />They also talk of a stone egg that will crack releasing Kaz`zar`aik`chuel (luclin?)</blockquote>So...what is the source and relevance? Personally I don't see any relevance based on the info we have at hand it sounds like unpublished Allice in Wonderland rhimes.

Mirander_1

12-25-2009, 01:21 AM

<cite>Meirril wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Liched@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>This was brought up in another thread but since Morrell is probably going to make an appearanceThe horned lizard with four legs and two more above spoke for the stars. The light of the north sky would follow this great lizard and the lizard would follow it. The white lizard was there when the night would come and was not there when the day warmed our skin. The hooved lizard would show us the fourth secret. We now knew the secret of the Onu's heart. The secret was Ew.<img src="http://bolly.freshinc.co.uk/d_morrell_thule.gif" width="160" height="178" />They also talk of a stone egg that will crack releasing Kaz`zar`aik`chuel (luclin?)</blockquote>So...what is the source and relevance? Personally I don't see any relevance based on the info we have at hand it sounds like unpublished Allice in Wonderland rhimes.</blockquote>This one I actually know. The quote is from the Alliz Onu books that come out of the Feerrott. I'm guessing the relevance he's going for is the description of a "white, horned lizard with for legs and two more above" which, aside from the lizard part, does sorta fit the description of Morrel Thule.

Bakual

11-27-2010, 03:12 PM

Just a note about Lord Kerafyrm. You're aware that he is already ingame, aren't you? Fyr'remd Lorak is no other than Lord Kerafyrm in disquise (simple anagram).We help him kill Rhoen Theer as part of the signature quest. If you kill 4 rune Rhoen you even get a dialogue between those two.Kerafyrm is trying to get a second Age of Scale, with him as ruler. And for this he needed the power from the "Dragonslayer" Rhoen Theer.He is (still) full awake and living. And we probably will face him as the prismatic dragon Lord Kerafyrm in Velious <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Cusashorn

11-27-2010, 06:12 PM

<cite>Bakual wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just a note about Lord Kerafyrm. You're aware that he is already ingame, aren't you? Fyr'remd Lorak is no other than Lord Kerafyrm in disquise (simple anagram).We help him kill Rhoen Theer as part of the signature quest. If you kill 4 rune Rhoen you even get a dialogue between those two.Kerafyrm is trying to get a second Age of Scale, with him as ruler. And for this he needed the power from the "Dragonslayer" Rhoen Theer.He is (still) full awake and living. And we probably will face him as the prismatic dragon Lord Kerafyrm in Velious <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>You necroed a topic that was made before Sentinal's Fate (and Kerafyrm's in-game presence) came out.

Rezikai

11-27-2010, 11:42 PM

Hmmm I do hope they release some concept art of Kerafrym though i'd like to see how well they construct and animate him in the maya (sp) program.

Lodrelhai

11-28-2010, 12:29 AM

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bakual wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just a note about Lord Kerafyrm. You're aware that he is already ingame, aren't you? Fyr'remd Lorak is no other than Lord Kerafyrm in disquise (simple anagram).We help him kill Rhoen Theer as part of the signature quest. If you kill 4 rune Rhoen you even get a dialogue between those two.Kerafyrm is trying to get a second Age of Scale, with him as ruler. And for this he needed the power from the "Dragonslayer" Rhoen Theer.He is (still) full awake and living. And we probably will face him as the prismatic dragon Lord Kerafyrm in Velious <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>You necroed a topic that was made before Sentinal's Fate (and Kerafyrm's in-game presence) came out.</blockquote>Not to mention Theer is the Godslayer, not the Dragonslayer.I'm actually hoping that Kerafyrm won't be in the next expansion, but the one after. Concept art, however, would rock whenever it comes out.That said, I'm still betting Thumore is Morrel. I hope we get more of this storyline soon - especially if it does link back to Erollisi one way or another.Hm... if Thumore is Morrel, and he does help to raise Erollisi, would they both become worshipable dieties? Please?

kelvmor

11-28-2010, 06:14 PM

It is Morrel-Thule. There is no other possibility. Period. Ever.Kerafyrm's already back, for starters, we met him in SF. He was back -before- Thurmore, too, when he created the droag in the Kingdom of Sky.The only thing that fits is Morrel-Thule. Period. End of Discussion.

Cusashorn

11-28-2010, 09:34 PM

^ Actually, the Droag existed long before Kerafyrm was ever born, and he formed his cult of the Awakened before he left Norrath after he woke up. Sentinal's Fate is his first confirmed physical reappearance on Norrath, but this quest was put in before Sentinal's Fate was released, so the speculation that it's Morrell Thule is still more likely.

kelvmor

11-28-2010, 10:36 PM

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>^ Actually, the Droag existed long before Kerafyrm was ever born, and he formed his cult of the Awakened before he left Norrath after he woke up. Sentinal's Fate is his first confirmed physical reappearance on Norrath, but this quest was put in before Sentinal's Fate was released, so the speculation that it's Morrell Thule is still more likely.</blockquote>So, Kerafyrm is like the Droag's Cyric the Mad?And, honestly, it might as well be set in stone that Thumore is Morrell. All that talk of dreams, there's hardly an explanation that fits better.

Bakual

11-29-2010, 02:34 PM

delete plz, was empty post

Bakual

11-29-2010, 02:35 PM

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>You necroed a topic that was made before Sentinal's Fate (and Kerafyrm's in-game presence) came out.</blockquote>Ack sorry. I blame google for that <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />And there I wondered why nobody came up with that argument before...

Meirril

12-02-2010, 10:37 AM

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>^ Actually, the Droag existed long before Kerafyrm was ever born, and he formed his cult of the Awakened before he left Norrath after he woke up. Sentinal's Fate is his first confirmed physical reappearance on Norrath, but this quest was put in before Sentinal's Fate was released, so the speculation that it's Morrell Thule is still more likely.</blockquote>Umm...your completely wrong on this point Cusa. KoS has creation lore for the Droag. While it doesn't go into detail on how it was done Kingdom of Sky points out that the Droag were created to server the dragons loyal to Kerafyrm. By the experiments being performed by Sothis in the Halls of Fate you can gather that the droag were probaby created there first and are being further refined to make better shock troops.I did find it suprising that the Ring of Scale was using Droag troops as well. This could easily be explained as defectors from the Awakened as in their own lore they have Droag who question the leadership of the dragons Kerafyrm left behind. Once the Ring had a few droag under their control, they could of either breed or manufactured their own.If your going to argue that Droag pre-date Kerafyrm's hatching and explain their complete absence from EQ1 I'd like to hear what your source is.

Cusashorn

12-02-2010, 11:31 AM

I thought the L&L said they were created by Veeshan to serve the dragons? It has been a long time since I read it.

kelvmor

12-02-2010, 04:54 PM

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>I thought the L&L said they were created by Veeshan to serve the dragons? It has been a long time since I read it.</blockquote>Something like that. I made an ogre Paladin (betrayed) that I stuck a droag illusion on to RP as a Paladin of Veeshan once.

Wilin

12-02-2010, 07:11 PM

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>I thought the L&L said they were created by Veeshan to serve the dragons? It has been a long time since I read it.</blockquote>Yep, created by Veeshan to serve her. Here's the link and the excerpt.Excerpt from <a href="http://www.lorelibrary.com/?page=book&bid=132&ss=droag">http://www.lorelibrary.com/?page=bo...id=132&ss=droag</a>"They were created to serve.That was their only purpose. Hand to hold and carry, wings to ease their travel and scales because they were born of scale.Generation upon generation of droag served her and worshipped her in their home, the Plane of Sky"

Lodrelhai

12-03-2010, 01:51 AM

<cite>Wilin wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>I thought the L&L said they were created by Veeshan to serve the dragons? It has been a long time since I read it.</blockquote>Yep, created by Veeshan to serve her. Here's the link and the excerpt.Excerpt from <a href="http://www.lorelibrary.com/?page=book&bid=132&ss=droag">http://www.lorelibrary.com/?page=bo...id=132&ss=droag</a>"They were created to serve.That was their only purpose. Hand to hold and carry, wings to ease their travel and scales because they were born of scale.Generation upon generation of droag served her and worshipped her in their home, the Plane of Sky"</blockquote>I brought that excerpt up ages ago, also thinking it referred to Veeshan (that's not the Droag L&L). I was told the "she" being referenced was Harla Dar, whereas those who's faith has changed were now following Lord Vyemm after Harla Dar went into seclusion. The actual Droag L&L book, <a href="http://www.lorelibrary.com/?page=book&bid=3" target="_blank">Scales in Balance</a>, tells a similar story, but this time giving a personal view of the argument.Seems the Droag were not Veeshan's creation. And the split between the faithful seems to center around whether they should act against the world below now, as Lord Vyemm wants, or wait for word from the Awakened, as Harla Dar does.

Wilin

12-03-2010, 04:40 PM

<cite>Lodrelhai wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wilin wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>I thought the L&L said they were created by Veeshan to serve the dragons? It has been a long time since I read it.</blockquote>Yep, created by Veeshan to serve her. Here's the link and the excerpt.Excerpt from <a href="http://www.lorelibrary.com/?page=book&bid=132&ss=droag">http://www.lorelibrary.com/?page=bo...id=132&ss=droag</a>"They were created to serve.That was their only purpose. Hand to hold and carry, wings to ease their travel and scales because they were born of scale.Generation upon generation of droag served her and worshipped her in their home, the Plane of Sky"</blockquote>I brought that excerpt up ages ago, also thinking it referred to Veeshan (that's not the Droag L&L). I was told the "she" being referenced was Harla Dar, whereas those who's faith has changed were now following Lord Vyemm after Harla Dar went into seclusion. The actual Droag L&L book, <a href="http://www.lorelibrary.com/?page=book&bid=3" target="_blank">Scales in Balance</a>, tells a similar story, but this time giving a personal view of the argument.Seems the Droag were not Veeshan's creation. And the split between the faithful seems to center around whether they should act against the world below now, as Lord Vyemm wants, or wait for word from the Awakened, as Harla Dar does.</blockquote>Ah, good point. The Droag L&L doesn't say much.

Meirril

12-04-2010, 10:23 PM

<cite>Wilin wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lodrelhai wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wilin wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>I thought the L&L said they were created by Veeshan to serve the dragons? It has been a long time since I read it.</blockquote>Yep, created by Veeshan to serve her. Here's the link and the excerpt.Excerpt from <a href="http://www.lorelibrary.com/?page=book&bid=132&ss=droag">http://www.lorelibrary.com/?page=bo...id=132&ss=droag</a>"They were created to serve.That was their only purpose. Hand to hold and carry, wings to ease their travel and scales because they were born of scale.Generation upon generation of droag served her and worshipped her in their home, the Plane of Sky"</blockquote>I brought that excerpt up ages ago, also thinking it referred to Veeshan (that's not the Droag L&L). I was told the "she" being referenced was Harla Dar, whereas those who's faith has changed were now following Lord Vyemm after Harla Dar went into seclusion. The actual Droag L&L book, <a href="http://www.lorelibrary.com/?page=book&bid=3" target="_blank">Scales in Balance</a>, tells a similar story, but this time giving a personal view of the argument.Seems the Droag were not Veeshan's creation. And the split between the faithful seems to center around whether they should act against the world below now, as Lord Vyemm wants, or wait for word from the Awakened, as Harla Dar does.</blockquote>Ah, good point. The Droag L&L doesn't say much.</blockquote>But between the 2 books you can draw a few conclusions. The Droag were created to serve dragons, specifically the Awakened. They are drawn between 2 factions (most likely Harla Dar and Lord Vyemm). The Droag are slighly older than the temples they created for the dragons. The Droag are awaiting the return of the Awakened (aka Kerafyrm).It is possible to read it as they were created by Veeshan, as it isn't specific in who "she" is. But why would Droag created by Veeshan wait to serve The Awakened? That makes no sense. Also the temples should pre-date EQ1 if that was the case. I don't think the intent was to retcon EQ1, but rather to point out that the Droag were created by the Cult of the Awakened to serve them in their new base the Pedistal of Sky...er...Kingdom of Sky.

Rainmare

12-04-2010, 10:43 PM

I always took it at Veeshan created the Droag, and they served along side her in PoS...after the departure and the melting of PoS into norrath and Kera's Awakening...he simply took command of some of them...and some of them went to Kunark and serve the Ring, adn I bet if the Claws are around, and not already subserviant to Kera, there will be droag serving them too.I don't think they were created by Vyemn, because judging him from the interactions in the raid zone and bonemire...he's not the type to share his toys, even with his 'allies'. and he certainly wouldn't give them the free will to not serve him/his interpretation of Kera's will.