monk end game pvp spec?

[Faenril]

<p>Allright... My newbie monk has now been 80 for a few weeks.</p><p>I'm curious what AA spec end game monks are using, esp. brawler tree, as monk and TSO trees are both quite obvious.</p><p>Currently I have full str full sta half agi and the few int points needed to get the root.</p><p>I'm not a super fan of chi, as I dislike big cooldowns "I win" abilities in general... On the other hand double attack and deflection mod are both very nice in str line ... Would going wis line be any better ?</p><p>This is mostly for solo pvp... For group pvp I enjoy the illy much more <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Also what about offensive vs defensive stance ? I tend to go offensive but I suppose the mythical may make up for the decreased hit rate from def stance, but I'm not really 100% sure about its actual mechanics, so if any monk has some experience he can share it would be welcome <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Ambrin]

<p>What I would suggest for a pure PvP spec would actually be something like this:</p><p>STR: 4-4-8-8-2</p><p>AGI: 4-7-8</p><p>STA: 4-4-8-6-2</p><p>The logic behind this is as follows:</p><p>From the strength line you get double attack, uncontested avoidance, and a huge DPS temp buff that also helps with things like saves (Mend, Tsunami, Bob and Weave, Mountain Stance, etc coming off reuse faster when used right).</p><p>The agility line gets faster reuse and the buff/debuff from Baton Flurry which can really hurt classes that rely on chaining spells quickly for max DPS.</p><p>Stamina line nets you Mantis Leap, which allows you to counter kiting, you also technically get the single target damage proc which could help while burning a target down.</p><p>The crit from the int line is going to be relatively worthless considering the critmit people are getting in PvP. The root effect on Eagle Spin will only last something like ~2 seconds and is not worth the AA in my opinion.</p><p>The only thing the wisdom line will do for you in PvP is give you extra AE's to make getting updates while zerging the writ giver easier. The few hundred extra HP you get from Crane Growth is nice and all, but it will hardly be a deciding factor in PvP as long as you can get your HP to a decent amount.</p>

[BChizzle]

<p>Ambrin seems to be our pvp expert I'd listen to him.</p>

[Faenril]

Yeah I guess that makes sense. I pretty much use this build except I don't think the root is worthless so it looks like: str 4 4 8 6 2 agi 4 4 8 sta 4 4 8 6 2 int 4 1 Maybe i'll change my mind about those 5 points in int with experience, but I doubt it's make or break anyway <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Thank you for the answer !

[Agent2k]

<p>44882 sta</p><p>44882 str</p><p>458 wis</p><p>Aside from gear.  It's all about how you play, your reaction time, and what CAs you use against what class and when.  As long as you don't have a whack AA setup, they can b wutever.  Wisdom is one of the strongest pvp lines as it greatly increases your ability to tank and shield others.  This is because Dragon rage can proc off like everything.  Int is amazing for solo pvp, drop 8 points into eagle spin.  Visit EQ2flames if you want to learn from more veteran PvPers.  The majority of the Nagafen server posts there.</p>

[Faenril]

Thank you Drytan I'll give it a try.

[Ambrin]

<p><cite>Agent2k wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>44882 sta</p><p>44882 str</p><p>458 wis</p><p>Aside from gear.  It's all about how you play, your reaction time, and what CAs you use against what class and when.  As long as you don't have a whack AA setup, they can b wutever.  Wisdom is one of the strongest pvp lines as it greatly increases your ability to tank and shield others.  This is because Dragon rage can proc off like everything.  Int is amazing for solo pvp, drop 8 points into eagle spin.  Visit EQ2flames if you want to learn from more veteran PvPers.  The majority of the Nagafen server posts there.</p></blockquote><p>Wisdom is nice in group PvP because of the Dragon Rage proc, but I wouldn't recommend it for a pure solo PvP spec (which is what my advice was based). This is not to say that a wisdom spec can't be put to great effect in PvP, if you are fighting multiple undergeared opponents you can pop Crane Flock and quickly take out an entire group of players. For the most part though, wisdom is rather limited in (solo) PvP, which is how I do most of my PvP.</p><p>I still don't think spending points in Eagle spin is worthwhile in PvP simply because at it's longest duration it only lasts 3 seconds. This is enough to get off one, maybe two combat arts on a target depending on how much haste you have so unless said target is already low on life it won't do a whole lot (unless you really out gear your opponent and can him down in a few hits). The thing to remember is that there really are only 2 classes who can effectively kite you, troubadour's and rangers, so spending 12 AA's in the int line to handle two classes seems like a bit of a waste. When it comes to people just running away from you they will either be full health and trying to avoid a fight (meaning a 3 sec root won't likely be enough time to kill them), or they will be low on HP and trying to escape in which case a single CA/auto attack should likely finish them off without needing to root them, and if it doesn't you just teleport up to them and hit them again.</p><p>As far as AA goes for a solo PvP spec in the monk line, I would also suggest you pickup Mongoose Stance and Evade Check as the combination of being able to taunt someone (or an entire group) and then force them to clear their target is very powerful.</p>

[Agent2k]

<p>I'm not going to divulge too much information cause then some of yu mite be able to pvp as good as me... NOT </p><p>But i'll share some info...</p><p>***<span>Mongoose Stance and Evade Check***  quoted </span></p><p>Mongoose stance doesn't work in pvp.  FD is far greater then evade as it has no maximum range, cannot be resisted, and has a far shorter reuse time.</p><p><span>***This is enough to get off one, maybe two combat arts on a target depending on how much haste you have*** quoted  </span></p><p>Haste has nothing to do with combat arts.  You must be lagging if your only getting 1 or 2 CA's off every 3 seconds.  And lol, kiting classes?  That's hardly the reason, if the reason at all, why having a 3 second root in your arsenal greatly increases your PvP ability.  Remember PvP is about how and when you use your CA's and control effects are what determine that.  DPS, avoidance, and mitigation all come second in pvp in comparison to how you use your abilities. </p><p>Watch my older videos, when skill had a far greater effect in pvp.  You will see how I use my CA's in a distinct order which depended on their control effect not their DPS.  I will be in O stance and you will see even geared brawlers or players in general who do no damage in minute long fights.  And it has nothing to do with my avoidance, dps, or mitigation.</p>

[BChizzle]

<p>So whos like the best pvp monk?  I know on test when they made it pvp everyone was like [Removed for Content] bchizzle you own but I was just treating the people and groups like I would any hard heroic.  I was taking out groups of 4/5 people myself and would have done better had I figured out quicker that our heals get nerfed badly in pvp mode.  I can tell you it was fun when people actually fought but like I kept getting this one SK to like 20% and he'd run away for like 5 minutes and it got boring chasing him down all the time.</p>

[Ambrin]

<p><cite>Agent2k wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm not going to divulge too much information cause then some of yu mite be able to pvp as good as me... NOT </p><p>But i'll share some info...</p><p>***<span>Mongoose Stance and Evade Check***  quoted </span></p><p>Mongoose stance doesn't work in pvp.  FD is far greater then evade as it has no maximum range, cannot be resisted, and has a far shorter reuse time.</p><p><span>***This is enough to get off one, maybe two combat arts on a target depending on how much haste you have*** quoted  </span></p><p>Haste has nothing to do with combat arts.  You must be lagging if your only getting 1 or 2 CA's off every 3 seconds.  And lol, kiting classes?  That's hardly the reason, if the reason at all, why having a 3 second root in your arsenal greatly increases your PvP ability.  Remember PvP is about how and when you use your CA's and control effects are what determine that.  DPS, avoidance, and mitigation all come second in pvp in comparison to how you use your abilities. </p><p>Watch my older videos, when skill had a far greater effect in pvp.  You will see how I use my CA's in a distinct order which depended on their control effect not their DPS.  I will be in O stance and you will see even geared brawlers or players in general who do no damage in minute long fights.  And it has nothing to do with my avoidance, dps, or mitigation.</p></blockquote><p>Mongoose Stance does work in PvP, I have been in vent with freeps who have said they keep losing a target on me when I hit them. If at one point (maybe even now) Mongoose Stance didn't do anything in PvP than it was a bug considering the abilities PvP description is very clear.</p><p>Evade Check is a another tool that can be used to drop targets. With Evade Check you now have twice as many ways to force your enemies to drop their target, that's hardly useless.</p><p>Haste does matter unless you are simply spamming CA's without really caring if you are delaying auto attacks (and losing a lot of damage from them). Even with the reduced damage in PvP, my auto attacks deal more damage than all my CA's with the exception of Five Rings (does 2540-3772 damage in PvP, which is more than Devastation Fist). That's not to say there aren't times when using a certain CA is more important than dealing damage, but the same general rule for dealing damage applies in PvP as it does in PvE - delaying your auto attacks hurts your DPS a lot.</p><p>Regarding Eagle Spin. It's costing you 12 AA for an ability that is (in my opinion) situationally useful as best. Yes, you can use it to stop someone form running or to give yourself a headstart on running (regardless of if you are trying to escape the fight or not), or locking your target facing away from you so they can't hit you for 3 seconds. Every use you can really describe comes down to one of those 3 things. The whole point is I just can't justify spending 12 AA's to get a situationally useful ability that is only going to last 3 seconds. If it lasted longer, even 5 seconds I would say it is probably worthwhile, but it doesn't. Those 12AA can be put to better use as it stands.</p><p>Are there times when I've found this ability useful? Sure (I have 4 points in for my PvE spec to get the crit), but there are also times I have wished I had Eagle Shriek or even Altruism in PvP. That doesn't mean I am going to spend AA to get abilities I may find useful (even extremely useful) in a handful of fights when I can spend them to get abilities I know I will use in the majority of fights. Eagle Shriek is hardly that useful in the majority of fights.</p><p>In the majority of fights you don't even need to do anything fancy, just kill them quickly and move on.</p><p>Two more things:</p><p>1. Saving your control effects until you need them isn't some secret only you have mastered, it's PvP101.</p><p>2. After reading the description for Dragon Rage I noticed the proc states it will proc on "a successful melee attack", which as discovered recently in another thread means main hand auto attacks only. It is not going to proc off a proc such as Crane Twirl (unless it is bugged and therefore needs to be fixed).</p>

[Agent2k]

<p>It does not proc off crane twirl, who said it did?  It procs off crane sweep and crescent strike.  But if you go wis yu def gonna want to spend 8 points in crane twirl cause it's beast.  It's the only way to AoE taunt.</p><p>But i'm not going to explain everything, I know your new to the monk class especially in pvp. </p><p>see: <a href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/leaderboards/classLeaderboardReport.action?report=most_pvp_kill s&classId=6" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://eq2players.station.sony.com/...s&classId=6</a></p><p>I'm just trying to keep Naemesis from getting bad advice from someone who really doesn't even know the class and shouldn't be giving it in the first place.  I've played the same character since February 21, 2006 (the day of pvp release) and minus the year and a half that I did not play, i've been the best at it the entire time.  Besides the fact that I would probably skunk you in a duel, it's obvious my kills > your kills and my accomplishments are > your accomplishments.  See discovered pvp equipment all the way back, check out whos name appears the most.  Search these forums by my name, see how far back it goes.  I'm giving first hand knowledge of things that i've figured out from years of PvP as a monk, not some washed up old garbage that was read off a forum.</p>

[Ambrin]

<p>How long you have played the game has nothing to do with skill.</p><p>Regarding Dragon Rage, the description says "On a successful melee attack", which is the same wording as Crane Twirl, and in  this thread (. <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=462232">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=462232</a> .) it was shown that procs with such a description are only going to proc off a mainhand auto attack. So either one of these skills is bugged and needs to be fixed or Dragon Rage isn't really proccing from the few AE's in the wisdom tree.</p><p>If you want to set up a match just send me a tell in game, I'd be more than happy to accommodate you.</p>