Heirloom items and NBG

[Bandage]

<p>Can we possibly take a look at how NBG is used while grouping? I get really tired of PuG's where everyone is "needing for an alt". Devs...please take a look at what WoW is doing about it. Seems pretty easy to implement...I think this should be implemented as an option, or alternative to current NBG usage.</p><p><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; color: #dddddd; line-height: 18px;"><h3><strong><span style="color: #000000;">Need Before Greed Updated</span></strong></h3><div><span style="color: #000000;">Need Before Greed will now recognize gear appropriate for a class in three ways: the class must be able to equip the item, pure melee will be unable to roll on spellpower items, and classes are limited to their dominant armor type (for example, plate for paladins). All items will still be available via greed rolls should no member be able to use the item.</span></div><div></div><div></div></span></p>

[Crismorn]

<p>I'm sorry that you lost a loot roll, better luck next time.</p><p>Im sure once those people cant gear up there alts cause you need gear after 18 months that they will be sure to help you out and do those zones all for you man cause you deserve the effort of 5 other people even though its 5 other people.</p>

[Ol]

<p>Know who your grouping with</p>

[juggalo0385]

<p>yep thats your loss dude I know how you feel I have lost loot to another player but it really is just a game just go back the next day and try again</p>

[Jrral]

<p>Unfortunately the game doesn't know which character the player's rolling for, so it can't enforce what you want. And it's not even feasible to decide based on the item: a scout may want that piece of tank-type jewelry for when they're soloing or playing swash-tank against solo content, a healer might want that caster or melee damage piece for some extra offensive oomph when they're not having to concentrate full-time on healing, fighters often want damage-oriented pieces for obvious reasons and classes like crusaders can easily benefit from caster-damage and even healer items.</p><p>The best way to deal with this particular problem isn't via game mechanics, it's to simply lay down the rules and get everyone to agree to them before you start, then deal firmly with violators if it becomes neccesary. And remember what I just said about classes and items. If you really don't trust people, then set leader-only looting and let the group leader referee the rolls.</p>

[feldon30]

Discuss at establishment of group. Hope devs add a Need For Alt button.

[Pervis]

<p>Do what I've done, only group with guild mates and others that you know.</p><p>Heirloom, as it is now, is nothing more than a PuG killer.</p>

[Arianah]

<p>I still do PuGs, when something drops we first see if any mains want it, and then if none do, we roll for alts (usually have to re-set loot settings so we can fix our rolls). I haven't run into anyone who rolls for their alt against a toon that is actually in group, and if I do, I make sure to not group with them again /shrug. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Lord Hackenslash]

<p>Never had this happen. I do several PuGs on days when I am not raiding. Everyone asks before rolling if they want it for an alt. Sounds like you just happened to group with one bad egg. You might want to mark them as someone not to group with in the future.</p>

[Lethe5683]

<p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm sorry that you lost a loot roll, better luck next time.</p></blockquote>

[Seiffil]

<p>The current heirloom rules are not a PUG killer.  I can't say I've had any groups where someone has gotten mad at another person for rolling on a drop that an alt might need.  Most people I know only need on stuff for alts after asking the group. </p><p>If you're really having this much trouble with people doing it, as others have said, establish rules at the beginning and learn which people to group with and not to group with.  A  Need for Alt for button won't really work with someone who just wants it for their alts regardless of what the group says as they'll probably just Need roll on it anyways, instead of using Need for Alt.</p>

[Wullail]

<p>Sounds like you had one bad group , any time something has dropped in groups that someone wanted for an alt , we've always been asked 'is it ok if I need for an alt'.</p><p>Mark the person on your ignore and move on is my advice.</p>

[Prestissimo]

<p>primary need:  Must be able to be equipped onto the character you are on.  (if you're a mage and a plate piece drops, obviously you can't use that.  The semantics of how usefull it is can be hashed out by the players.)</p><p>secondary need:  alt needs it or you can use it, but it's not that big of a deal (like a second set of gear.  ideally want it more than greed, less of an upgrade than instantly going to equip it upon recieving it.)</p><p>greed - as it currently stands</p><p>decline - explanatory.</p><p>Thats how I'd like to see it show, purely to relieve alot of the communication and confusion that can and frequently does occur.  Simple and easy to use looting policies that remove possible confusion make gameplay more enjoyable, but it doesn't do anything to prevent an a-hole from continuing to be one, it just makes ninja need rolls a bit more likely to be able to be countered on a whole.</p><p>In general, I very rarely run into problems with it, it just takes longer to check with everyone to see if they need for a main or an alt, and thats time that we could be killing mobs with and accomplishing more.</p>

[Transen]

<p>My general rule for heirloom items for alts (and apparently is the same general rule in most pugs I've been in) would be:</p><p>Always roll greed for alts with but one exception...  That exception is if you get the group's consent to roll need for an alt for that particular drop.  Most people don't want to get blacklisted from future groups.</p>

[bks6721]

<p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm sorry that you lost a loot roll, better luck next time.</p><p>Im sure once those people cant gear up there alts cause you need gear after 18 months that they will be sure to help you out and do those zones all for you man cause you deserve the effort of 5 other people even though its 5 other people.</p></blockquote><p>its not cool when people roll for gear on their 11 alts against your main.  Roll enough alts and you can roll on anything that drops.   My wiz shouldn't have to roll against anyone else in group when I'm the only mage for a mage item.</p>

[Guy De Alsace]

<p>I always ask before rolling need for an alt. It just seems the polite thing to do.</p>

[MrWolfie]

<p>1. A "Need For Alt" button, while it may not deter those naughty peeps who always roll "Need", it will provide a useful function for those people - the majority, I suspect - who want to abide by the unspoken rules and play fair.</p><p>2. In a PUG, with possible non-native english speakers, (not to mention peeps who really aren't paying attention) no answer to the question "can I need that for an alt" should be considered a "yes", shouldn't it? People who have no opinion tend not to say anything, but someone who needs it for the character they're actually playing is going to speak up when asked. The introduction of the "Need For Alt" button would resolve the whole matter of questioning in any case.</p><p>3. I've never been in a PUG where loot rules were discussed before or during our adventuring. Just because they're unspoken doesn't mean I can do anything I like, does it? The NBG looting method already implies a ruleset, but the introduction of HEIRLOOM makes it fuzzy - and no-one bothers to mention it until it's an issue, usually an issue that cannot be resolved since the roll already happened and there's bad feeling over something that should have been understood, but initially, went unspoken.</p><p>HEIRLOOM is a new concept and some people think they're a licence to press need because they have alts. Also, the argument goes that some items have not been made heirloom, which means they're specifically not for alts, which therefore means that all heirloom items are FFA if you've got an alt, according to the game designers. They put in the new tag, but didn't address methodology of rolling for it. So it must be intended for main and alt equally, right? Sounds reasonable until you're actually there and you lose a roll on your one and only character. There's no way of defining your loot rules for heirloom items without spelling it out at the beginning of each group, which is the way it was before the NBG looting window was introduced. If we needed NBG rolling, then we also need it adjusted to account for heirloom items.</p><p>So, it's all terribly confusing when you've got an alt that can use an item and uncommunicative group-members. Just put the "Need For Alt" button in and solve the entire issue for players who want to play fair.</p>

[Kaita]

<p>Perhaps SOE can include a way for players to communicate with text and maybe even voice? Then players could discuse the rules of the group before they get sweet loots? Someday maybe</p>

[juggalo0385]

<p><img src="http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/9008/spanishinquisition.jpg" /></p>

[RafaelSmith]

<p>I am fine with people greeding anything that drops in instances when I am in a PuG.   When I am with strangers in a PuG...I have no idea who is a main, who is an alt, who is a bot, who might be on their already geared up fighter because the group couldn't find a tank.......who actually needs someting or just wants it for an alt.</p><p>Just let the RNG/rolls decide. </p><p>The sense of entitlement most people seem to have is often more annoying that people greeding on loot for alts.</p>

[juggalo0385]

<p>ok whats the purpose of the insert image if they get removed. what was wrong with monty python</p><p>edit:  nvm just took a bit to load hehe</p>

[Andok]

<p>This issue/idea has come up many times in the past, and I think it is a great idea.  Unfortunately, it seems like most people are against it.  Still, it’s an issue that is easily avoidable – just never invite a stranger into your group.  Stick with friends, guildies, and people you know and you won’t have a problem.</p>

[Gilasil]

<p><cite>Kaita@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Perhaps SOE can include a way for players to communicate with text and maybe even voice? Then players could discuse the rules of the group before they get sweet loots? Someday maybe</p></blockquote><p>Because people FREQUENTLY ignore hypothetical questions at the beginning or take eons to reply even later.  Because MANY people do not use voice chat for various reasons, especially in groups.</p>

[Landiin]

Just state up front, need is only for mains, any thing else is greed. If someone needs an item that they can't use boot their butt. Then skull intercourse them in lvl chat if thats your thing..

[Deveryn]

<p><cite>Toran@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Just state up front, need is only for mains, any thing else is greed. If someone needs an item that they can't use boot their butt. Then skull intercourse them in lvl chat if thats your thing..</blockquote><p>Exactly, they don't need to add any kind of feature for this. People just need to take charge of the loot situation.</p>

[woolf2k]

<p>people shouldn't be rolling "need" for an alt...</p><p>that's "greed"...</p><p>if the character you are playing doesn't need it, then it should be "greed"...</p><p>the only exception is if at the start you say... I am playing for my so-an-so character...</p><p>then you really have nothing to stand on...</p><p>at least that's how i roll ...if the pug choses something different then I drop group or accept it...</p>

[RafaelSmith]

<p><cite>Jaine@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>if the pug choses something different then I drop group or accept it...</p></blockquote><p>Exactly.  The game doesnt need more loot options. In a PuG the terms "need" and "greed" are difficult to define.</p><p>If you are in a group and never bothered to ask or discuss loot rules at the start then you have no business assuming anything or complaining if someone takes something for an alt.</p>

[Crismorn]

<p><cite>Jjay@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm sorry that you lost a loot roll, better luck next time.</p><p>Im sure once those people cant gear up there alts cause you need gear after 18 months that they will be sure to help you out and do those zones all for you man cause you deserve the effort of 5 other people even though its 5 other people.</p></blockquote><p>its not cool when people roll for gear on their 11 alts against your main.  Roll enough alts and you can roll on anything that drops.   My wiz shouldn't have to roll against anyone else in group when I'm the only mage for a mage item.</p></blockquote><p>Yeah cause they wanna run that instance to gear your main up that should have been geared a long time ago</p><p>Why should 5 other people who have geared up there character do instances to get you something you should have had a months ago.</p><p>6 people in a group and you are 1 of them, try using that mentality and say your the only one that should get certain items.</p>

[Crismorn]

<p><cite>Gaylon@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I am fine with people greeding anything that drops in instances when I am in a PuG.   When I am with strangers in a PuG...I have no idea who is a main, who is an alt, who is a bot, who might be on their already geared up fighter because the group couldn't find a tank.......who actually needs someting or just wants it for an alt.</p><p>Just let the RNG/rolls decide. </p><p><strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">The sense of entitlement most people seem to have is often more annoying that people greeding on loot for alts.</span></strong></p></blockquote><p>Exactly.</p>

[Crismorn]

<p><cite>Jaine@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>people shouldn't be rolling "need" for an alt...</p><p>that's "greed"...</p><p>if the character you are playing doesn't need it, then it should be "greed"...</p><p>the only exception is if at the start you say... I am playing for my so-an-so character...</p><p>then you really have nothing to stand on...</p><p>at least that's how i roll ...if the pug choses something different then I drop group or accept it...</p></blockquote><p>the first 6 months of an xpac, sure I could see that.</p><p>After 13 months, HELL NO and its not even that you need that item that bothers me so much as how you can sit there after 13 months of being able to get that item yet you dont have it yet cause you are too casual to bother or maybe you dont care enough about your character who knows.</p><p>Some people play there "alts" more than many of you that are complaining even spend on there "main"</p><p>You make up 16.66% of the group, dont ever forget that</p>

[QuestingCrafter]

<p>In guild/alliance/friend groups, people are pretty cool about it (yet again, that social aspect of the game comes up). In PUGs, we *usually* make it clear that NEED is for upgrades on the toon you're on, and GREED is for any other reason.</p><p>That said, I'd love the loot choices to be:[NEED] [FOR ALT] [GREED] [DECLINE]</p>