Tier 9 PvP gear....for real this time.

[Chia_Pet]

<p>Ok, first lets make one thing clear. currently PvP gear is WAY too easy to obtain. so right out the door I think it should be boosted Back UP to around 500 tokens for a single peice, except BP and Legs which should be around 750 or so.</p><p>That being said we need to look at making the gear available earlier in the tier, much like the first tier of raid gear. say around lvl 87. This should be done by setting the gear up like the current shard gear, where peices can be upgradeable.</p><p>This first set of gear should be on par or slightly under that of the first tier of raid gear released with the expansion. these peices should cost say 250-300 tokens a peice with the upgrades only wearable at lvl 90 and on par or slightly worse then the top tier raid gear, not including Avatar gear which should only be for the raiders that can get it. This will allow people to chose an alternate meathod of getting gear, but force them to work for it. while zerging and amss updates can be debated as a problem, making the top end PvP gear as expensive as it used to be if not moreso should tone things down.</p><p>This set up allows player to work toward good gear, gain the benefits of set bonuses ealier on yet not make them overpowerful. secondly itll allow the PvP to be a bit more even from the beginning of the expansion on through any updates in the future. this way any new updates increasing raid gear as is inevitable will allow for yet a third tier, etc of PvP gear allowing players to continuously upgrade. the third tier of PvP gear which wouldnt be released until a new update to better Raid gear would probale cost on the order of 1000 tokens for the BP. These changes would allow new players coming up later in the life of the expansion the ability to get decent gear as they lvled and continue to upgrade and have some semblance of a chance while also promoting constant PvP.</p><p>this model should also be used for the PvP jewelry as well as weapons. IF sony decides to add in yet New Mythicals for tier 9, then perhaps this time around PvPrs could get something similiar requiring some serious PvP stipulations such as killing 2000 enemies with a certain percentage of them being certain classes or some such.</p><p>I personally dont feel that PvE and PvP should be seperate as others have argued as it is nice to work at both to get the things needed to be successful and most importantly not a cookie cutter setup where everyone is wearing the same freaking gear. there needs to be choices and I feel both should be used interchangably.</p>

[gdawg311]

<p>this is a horrible idea. People are going ot rush to 90. everyone will grind to 90 as fast as possible mostly pvping when chance lands them in it. hell i have 247 quests ready for turn in the day the xpac goes live. once people are 90 is when the real pvp will begin again. and having to do 1000 writs for a lvl 87 item is lulz.</p>

[Xehx]

<p>Yea...that theory blows...  The only way I will want to wait to build up that many tokens and spend them all on one thing is if the piece gave at least 10-15% crit to everything...  A bunch of other added effects like Haste, plus heal ammount...  All high numbers mind you...  And mitigation through the roof.  That frictionless piece of eight trick in the halloween stuff would be nice and somewhat worth that many tokens...  I'd like it at least...  >_>  But back to the point...  No way will that go through.  No one will want to waste that much time trying to get gear.  Would be better to just raid and get the raid gear.  =/  And easier I think. </p>

[Dorsan]

The OP had some good and some horrible ideas. The horrible part is getting 750 tokens for the 87 LEGENDARY gear while PvE LEGENDARY will most likely be obtainable within 1/day much like TSO pieces. What I like is the idea of upgradable PvP gear. The way that we had T1/T2/T3 shard gear upgrading would be nice for PvP gear. Where T1 PvP gear would be crap but cost cheap and then build up with more and more expensive pieces. IMO the T1 PvP gear (lvl 87 LEGENDARY) should cost around 75 tokens per piece, then T2 (lvl 89 LEGENDARY) would take 1 T1 piece and 150 tokens, T3 (lvl 90 FABLED) would take 1 T2 piece and 500 tokens. So the total ammount of tokens would be 725 - which equals 145 writs, or 1160 kills with some nice T9 writs that require 8 kills/writ. Then chest and legs 1.5 times more expensive and you get a PvP gear that will take some time to obtain while you don't need to run around naked while obtaining it. Also would be nice if set bonuses would not break if you have mixed tier gear. The number of kills to obtain full set without jewelery would be 9280, which I think is a fair number. Same system could be applied for jewelery too and maybe a bit more pieces for that and also with set bonuses?

[Sadussa]

<p>ugggh why do people always think they have the solution to every thing.   SOE will do what they want to do, get use to it.  Has it been any other way for them since thier creation??</p>

[Dorsan]

Well actually it was other way... One example that comes to my mind is the fame system that we have now. It was suggested and then pushed through on this forum and now we can "enjoy" it.

[Chia_Pet]

<p>ok first of all, try rereading my post. the lvl 90 gear BP would be 750 tokens, the same amount of writs the BP cost us before the huge price drop, aka 150 writs.</p><p>secondly the lvl 87 would be a half way point say 350 tokens, or 70 writs. thus by lvl 87 youd get yuour BP and be able to wear the lvl 87 version, when you hit 90 youd spend another 400 tokens and upgrade it to the lvl 80 version.</p><p>apparently I didnt make that clear in the first post....</p>

[Faenril]

PvP gear revamp/boost, gear cost reduction, various nerfs (dirge myth and bane warding come to mind), fame system revamp... All those pvp updates have been the consequence of player's feedback, at least partly.

[Chia_Pet]

<p>oddly we have a PvP dev now, and awhile ago he asked what effects from PvE jewelry we liked alot and wanted for PvP.</p><p>I Told him the Signet of vampire kind was awesome, allowing people to stay up longer with the ward proc.</p><p>You take a look at the PvP jewelry we have now?</p><p>Any other brilliant observations?</p>

[Guld_Ulrish]

<p>lol</p>

[Eboncross]

<p>I think people are going to be busy leveling up and working thru new content myself. PVP equipment is so easy now because what else is there to do? We done ran the shard zones 100 times over already. Honestly I would run a zone 1 to 3 times and call it good. I dont like PVE much unless Im able to sell stuff to make money. I would bet the cost of the new armor and whatever else they come up with will cost more. The cost increase comes with each tier we already know this but to increase it by 600% I dont know about that.</p><p>I want out of the expantion the same types of PVP armor (not saying cost). Nice sets of armor and jewlery that keep me out of raid zones and in the battlefield.</p>

[Chia_Pet]

<p>the lower cost of the 87 gear means that for the effort you have to put in for the 90 BP you could have both a BP and legs of slightly less gear. allowing you to enjoy a set bonus. on top of this as you continue lvling and hit 90 you will possibly already have some good pvP gear to start with other then crap gear. on top of all this, if you dont want to PvP at all till you hit lvl 90, thats fine too, itd be just like getting shard gear, buy the lower tier stuff, then immediatly buy the higher tier. it just adds a little difference to the mix, allows people down the road who are having trouble lvling up in a pvP world to get some gear to help them survive so when they do hit 90 they arent naked. since any kills from lvl 80 up will count for tokens I just think itll help. at worst it wont hurt anything anyway, just bypass the use of the first tier of gear and immediatly buy the second tier if ay want.</p><p>I just dont think gear should cost so little, 20 freaking writs for a peice of raid quality gear we have now is just plain stupid.</p>

[Faenril]

<p><cite>Chia_Pet wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I just dont think gear should cost so little, 20 freaking writs for a peice of raid quality gear we have now is just plain stupid.</p></blockquote><p>QFE</p>

[Chia_Pet]

<p>Another arguement for tiered gear is, how many times before the last update did you slowly work for tokens, grinding writ after writ trying to get to 100? wouldnt it have been nice to get a peice of gear at around 50 knowing you could upgrade it when you had the extra tokens?</p><p>Part of the problem we had before the last update, is people didnt want to putin the time and effort of PvPn to get gear, not only was the gear subpar, but the amount of effort that went into completing 100 writs was substanttial in and of itself. considering that with the new writ system you would have to still kill some 600 enemies before getting a lvl 90 peice of gear, Id say thats a decent amount of time and effort to get a good peice of gear. that equals AT LEAST 16 and a half hours of work nonstop to get one peice of lvl 90 gear. thats not a ton, but its nothing to laugh at either as that takes into account you being able to complete a writ every 10 mins for 16 hours straight. and as soon as the zerging is over with that will require easily5 to 6 times the effort to get then it does now.</p><p>lets face it, even with the new upgrades the RoK armor isnt even being purchased, its a complete waste of space right now. And I know id be more then willing when lvling to get peices of that gear if later on i could upgrade it with the addition of more tokens.</p>

[Beefp]

<p>This idea is geared towards powergamers; you are assuming that everyone is (or hoping that everyone isn't).  This is just another attempt to spread the gap between people that play (but not for a living) and people who live in the game.</p><p>Beef</p>

[Chia_Pet]

<p>Heck another idea that might make raiders happy. why not require certain peices of gear to be bought before you're allowed to get the next peice. lets say you need to get the bracers, gloves and boots before you can purchase the helm and shoulders, once those are obtained you could get the Legs and finally breastplate. this way raiders and PvP'rs still have a progrression to get the gear, as in raiding, you dont get the BP till the very end last mobs of the tier of raids. this would help stop guilds using uber BPs and Legs for conquering the lower tier raid zones at least for awile. Besides if they are willing to work thier butts off in PvP to get the better gear in a progression manner then I think they would have earned the right to have an easier time in the raid zones as they have really earned thier place.</p>

[Chia_Pet]

<p><cite>Beefpie wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This idea is geared towards powergamers; you are assuming that everyone is (or hoping that everyone isn't).  This is just another attempt to spread the gap between people that play (but not for a living) and people who live in the game.</p><p>Beef</p></blockquote><p>How do you figure? this allows for a better spread of equipment. the lvl 87 stuff will not be much worse then the lvl 90 stuff, and could be obtained 2 times faster, letting the people who cant play all day a chance to get some decent gear without having to raid 5 days a week or PVP that often. the differences in gear would be somewhat small. However if you are agrueing that now the prices of PvP gear is find, you are crazy. thats just handing out freaking gear to everyone for what purpose? Sorry you still need to put effort in to get the good gear, thats a staple. a happy medium can be found, and I believe this to be it. however if you can give a convincing arguement as to why you think all gear should be so easily obtained, by all means do so....</p>

[Sadussa]

<p><cite>Chia_Pet wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>oddly we have a PvP dev now, and awhile ago he asked what effects from PvE jewelry we liked alot and wanted for PvP.</p><p>I Told him the Signet of vampire kind was awesome, allowing people to stay up longer with the ward proc.</p><p>You take a look at the PvP jewelry we have now?</p><p>Any other brilliant observations?</p></blockquote><p>so please tell me when these brilliant ideas were ever incorperated into development?? Never said changes don't happen bc for certain they do..  Change alaws comes after the fact not b4.  If you like wasting ur time with what you believe to be good ideas, plz feel free.  Don't assume that you speak for me or the community bc frankly most of ur ideas blow chunks</p>

[Xehx]

<p>/agrees with Sadussa</p>

[Chia_Pet]

<p><cite>Sadussa wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Chia_Pet wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>oddly we have a PvP dev now, and awhile ago he asked what effects from PvE jewelry we liked alot and wanted for PvP.</p><p>I Told him the Signet of vampire kind was awesome, allowing people to stay up longer with the ward proc.</p><p>You take a look at the PvP jewelry we have now?</p><p>Any other brilliant observations?</p></blockquote><p>so please tell me when these brilliant ideas were ever incorperated into development?? Never said changes don't happen bc for certain they do..  Change alaws comes after the fact not b4.  If you like wasting ur time with what you believe to be good ideas, plz feel free.  Don't assume that you speak for me or the community bc frankly most of ur ideas blow chunks</p></blockquote><p>Well first the signet of vampire kind has a 750 HP ward on it, that was incoporated into multiple peices of PvP jewelry, but apparently you dont have much of a clue about such things. And as far as you not liking my ideas, thats fine, but im wondering what part of having more choices of gear, obtainable through a decent amount of work, available to people who would rather PvP on a PvP server then Raid is bad?</p>

[Thinwizzy]

<p>As for set bonuses, I thought I had read that they where stepping away from the current system of armor sets.  I can't seem to find this though, anyone confirm/deny?</p>

[Eiji]

<p>I just hope in T9 they actually give us a diffrence in jewelery and gear, so every priest isnt wearing the same fear earring, every scout wearing shifting band, etc etc..... I mean come on, give us some variety. Get's boring when u get to a healer and know to pop a fear pot then just dps them to death. Granted i am a ranger and is fairly easy to pvp with, but i would just like some variaty of jewelery to wear instead of everyone wearing the SAME pvp gear to pvp.</p>

[Xehx]

<p><cite>Eiji@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I just hope in T9 they actually give us a diffrence in jewelery and gear, so every priest isnt wearing the same fear earring, every scout wearing shifting band, etc etc..... I mean come on, give us some variety. Get's boring when u get to a healer and know to pop a fear pot then just dps them to death. Granted i am a ranger and is fairly easy to pvp with, but i would just like some variaty of jewelery to wear instead of everyone wearing the SAME pvp gear to pvp.</p></blockquote><p>/agree </p><p>Making things a little less predictable would be rather nice.  Not that I have any real complaints about the PvP gear for right now, but giving people more of a selection, especially since they're are different play styles that people use, would really be nice.</p>

[Rajun]

<p>Dont care Ill just see u guys at 90 and Beefpie ill come heal ya bro.</p>

[Eboncross]

<p><cite>Beefpie wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This idea is geared towards powergamers; you are assuming that everyone is (or hoping that everyone isn't).  This is just another attempt to spread the gap between people that play (but not for a living) and people who live in the game.</p><p>Beef</p></blockquote><p>Agree totally. People just want to be able and kill you in 2 or 3 shots if they can and by making it a game you have to play 24/7 to keep up is just dumb.</p>

[MokiCh]

<p>@ OP: Tiered PvP armour a la TSO shard armour is a good idea. But driving up the cost like you suggested is moronic beyond belief. You would be going right back to where we were before GU53, where people don't bother with PvP gear because they can get as good or better gear raiding, and get it a lot faster. People will be back to farming instances and raiding instead of PvPing.</p><p>It should take a person with average playtime (read: 15-20 hours per week) no longer than two or three months to get a full set of armour, add a few weeks for jewelry. Yes, those of you with no life will have your stuff within a week of hitting 90. The rest of us with jobs and girlfriends will feel confident we'll get our gear before the next expansion hits.</p>

[wellehad0]

<p><cite>Dorsan@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Well actually it was other way... One example that comes to my mind is the fame system that we have now. It was suggested and then pushed through on this forum and now we can "enjoy" it.</blockquote><p>why would you use that as a example as a idea they took from the screaming minority. this is twice they took a dumb idea from the screaming minority and made pvp even more worthless then it was.. SOE should not listen to most people on forums cause no matter how good the idea is SOE will find a way to put a dumb down version of it in..   look what they did for pvp exp instead of making the exp the same as killing a mob they decided to make exp the same as turning in 1-5 quest in the lower lvls.      then looks loot at the lame system sorry fame system we have now. it made titles worthless and took really anything left to work for in pvp. now its just mindless zerging for tokens then THE END..</p><p>as for T9 gear sorry but i do think gear should cost more tokens then it does now instead of silly 100 tokens i would moove it up to 500-800 tokens but i would raise the number of tokens to 25 tokens a writ and raising kills needed per writ by atleast 25-30 kills needed </p><p>or if you want to get crazy i say go away from writ system and go with a ticket system where on writ gets you a ticket for 1 piece of gear. maybe one writ is 700-1k kills. that alone would do away with all the bottleneck zerging in a certian area</p>

[Faenril]

I like the concept of tiered pvp gear. I also would like to see the requirement to buy some of the weaker pieces (gloves boots bracers ...) to unlock the best pieces (chest pants...). Or this can be achieved through costs like it was in EOF, with the best pieces being significantly more expensive. Raiders don't run around with their chest and pants the first week of an expansion, there is no reason pvpers would.

[Messia]

<p><cite>MokiChan wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>@ OP: Tiered PvP armour a la TSO shard armour is a good idea. <span style="color: #ff0000;">But driving up the cost like you suggested is moronic beyond belief</span>. You would be going right back to where we were before GU53, where people don't bother with PvP gear because they can get as good or better gear raiding, and get it a lot faster. People will be back to farming instances and raiding instead of PvPing.</p><p>It should take a person with average playtime (read: 15-20 hours per week) longer than two or three months to get a full set of armour, add a few weeks for jewelry. Yes, those of you with no life will have your stuff within a week of hitting 90. The rest of us with jobs and girlfriends will feel confident we'll get our gear before the next expansion hits.</p></blockquote><p>That statement is what is moronic.  There is no difficulty in completing a writ .... even if they only gave ONE token per writ the writs are still much easier to complete than ever because you do not have to kill a priest/fighter or whatever.  I remember when it was even worse than that ... kill a guardian ... kill a brigand .... you know how hard those writs were? The armor is rediculously easy to obtain ... too easy.</p><p>As for the fame system posted before ... the best fame system I have seen in an SOE game was the Original SWG Jedi ranking system.  It was insanely difficult to rank up past the third or fourth rank BUT the benefits were better Robes (jedi armor) .. which gave you more force to cast specials with.  You did not lose rank for dying, however the cost of maintaining a rank were high, and became nearly impossible to maintain the higher rank you were ..... Something like that would be more inline with a healthy PVP environment in my opinion. </p><p>AS far as comparing the PVP armor with the RAID armor, the best way to end this discussion is simple .... Make the PVP armor not usable in raid instances .. and make the RAID armor not usable in PVP ... therefore if you only pvp ... well no raider could possibly own you because they wouldn't have the armor ... and well you who only PVP couldn't go in and pillage a Raid zone with your pvp armor and get those extra pieces such as jewelery, cloaks, charms that are only really available in raid zones.  IF this had been the rule set ... well mythicals would have never been usable in PVP ... doesnt' seem like such a terrible idea.  Just simply means you'd have to carry two sets of armor .. or perhaps we could equip two sets of armor so we didnt' always have to change them. </p><p>The above is just an idea but it seems it would make the most people happy in regards to those who hard core raid wouldnt' have their content threatened ... and those who are hard core pvpers ... wouldn't have to worry about the hard core raiders threatening their content.   And well those hard core power gamers .. they'd have both ... which isn't really a change .. alot of them have both a set of pvp armor raid armor to boot. </p>

[MokiCh]

<p><cite>Messia@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>MokiChan wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>@ OP: Tiered PvP armour a la TSO shard armour is a good idea. <span style="color: #ff0000;">But driving up the cost like you suggested is moronic beyond belief</span>. You would be going right back to where we were before GU53, where people don't bother with PvP gear because they can get as good or better gear raiding, and get it a lot faster. People will be back to farming instances and raiding instead of PvPing.</p><p>It should take a person with average playtime (read: 15-20 hours per week) longer than two or three months to get a full set of armour, add a few weeks for jewelry. Yes, those of you with no life will have your stuff within a week of hitting 90. The rest of us with jobs and girlfriends will feel confident we'll get our gear before the next expansion hits.</p></blockquote><p>That statement is what is moronic.  There is no difficulty in completing a writ .... even if they only gave ONE token per writ the writs are still much easier to complete than ever because you do not have to kill a priest/fighter or whatever.  I remember when it was even worse than that ... kill a guardian ... kill a brigand .... you know how hard those writs were? The armor is rediculously easy to obtain ... too easy.</p></blockquote><p>The difficulty in completing a writ has nothing at all to do with this because the devs have explicit control over how fast you gain tokens via the cooldown timer. So it makes no difference at all if it takes you 30 seconds or 9 minutes to complete a writ because you can't do more than six writs an hour regardless.</p><p>And just fyi, yes I was around when writs were class specific, and the zerg at KP docks was worse then than it is at TG now. Like I said in at least two other threads on page 1 here, there is a difference between making something challenging and making it annoying. I'm all about a challenge, but it seems that instead of a challenge most of you guys want timesinks that give the advantage quite plainly to the people who have more time in their life to spend playing a computer game. If it came down to skill I'd be down for making it more difficult, but it's never taken any amount of skill to finish a writ in any of their incarnations. It's always been about time, who has the most time to play this game, who has the time to go hunt for that single T8 necro or to zerg TG for hours. I'd rather take the zerg than hunting the necro cause at least I know I'll have something to show for the time I spend getting zerged.</p>

[Messia]

<p><cite>MokiChan wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Messia@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>MokiChan wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>@ OP: Tiered PvP armour a la TSO shard armour is a good idea. <span style="color: #ff0000;">But driving up the cost like you suggested is moronic beyond belief</span>. You would be going right back to where we were before GU53, where people don't bother with PvP gear because they can get as good or better gear raiding, and get it a lot faster. People will be back to farming instances and raiding instead of PvPing.</p><p>It should take a person with average playtime (read: 15-20 hours per week) longer than two or three months to get a full set of armour, add a few weeks for jewelry. Yes, those of you with no life will have your stuff within a week of hitting 90. The rest of us with jobs and girlfriends will feel confident we'll get our gear before the next expansion hits.</p></blockquote><p>That statement is what is moronic.  There is no difficulty in completing a writ .... even if they only gave ONE token per writ the writs are still much easier to complete than ever because you do not have to kill a priest/fighter or whatever.  I remember when it was even worse than that ... kill a guardian ... kill a brigand .... you know how hard those writs were? The armor is rediculously easy to obtain ... too easy.</p></blockquote><p>The difficulty in completing a writ has nothing at all to do with this because the devs have explicit control over how fast you gain tokens via the cooldown timer. So it makes no difference at all if it takes you 30 seconds or 9 minutes to complete a writ because you can't do more than six writs an hour regardless.</p><p>And just fyi, yes I was around when writs were class specific, and the zerg at KP docks was worse then than it is at TG now. Like I said in at least two other threads on page 1 here, there is a difference between making something challenging and making it annoying. I'm all about a challenge, but it seems that instead of a challenge most of you guys want timesinks that give the advantage quite plainly to the people who have more time in their life to spend playing a computer game. If it came down to skill I'd be down for making it more difficult, but it's never taken any amount of skill to finish a writ in any of their incarnations. It's always been about time, who has the most time to play this game, who has the time to go hunt for that single T8 necro or to zerg TG for hours. I'd rather take the zerg than hunting the necro cause at least I know I'll have something to show for the time I spend getting zerged.</p></blockquote><p>I'm sorry but pvp armor shoudl not be easy to obtain ... neither should raid gear.</p>

[MokiCh]

<p>But it <em>is</em> easy to obtain, and it always has been. It just doesn't take as long anymore. It was never any harder to get before in terms of difficulty, it just took longer because you had to go hunting for that mage update or that one mystic that you still needed. It wasn't hard, it was just tedious.</p><p>Raids aren't difficult either as far as gameplay is concerned. The two main difficulties in raiding are learning the script, and getting 24 people to pay attention. Once you get those two down, the rest is a cakewalk.</p>

[Natthan]

<p>Those 2 things for raiding is much harder then say, Hitting a blue AE in TG and running around getting 6 updates while other people kill everything.</p>

[Messia]

<p>using AOE to get updates has been used since KOS days ... I can remember when DOM came here and the lame fights in KOS where EVERYONE and i do mean everyone ran out aoed .... essentially died within seconds ...revived ..r an out and looted tokens from the chests of dropped players .... so the whole AOE think is nothing new ...</p><p>What i find funny is some of you think those AOE's have nothing to do with the death of the players who get hit by them and that its all "you" who caused that player to die and everyone else just leached off you ....... well i got news for you cowboy .. thos dots are prolly the reason those players died. </p><p>Please do not think that there is something to leach now .. fame is meaningless and the posts use to be about how these AOE's were all fame leachers bla bla bla ..... now the argument is OMG they are leaching kills from me and getting updates, I'm betting that you have died in those AOE battles as much as you have killed other players ... so doesn't that make you a contributor to what you are professing is a problem? </p><p>I'VE SEEN EVERYONE out there taking advantage ... not one person hasnt' so save it</p>

[Messia]

<p><cite>MokiChan wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>But it <em>is</em> easy to obtain, and it always has been. It just doesn't take as long anymore. It was never any harder to get before in terms of difficulty, it just took longer because you had to go hunting for that mage update or that one mystic that you still needed. It wasn't hard, it was just tedious.</p><p>Raids aren't difficult either as far as gameplay is concerned. <span style="color: #ff0000;">The two main difficulties in raiding are learning the script, and getting 24 people to pay attention. Once you get those two down, the rest is a cakewalk.</span></p></blockquote><p>completely agree.</p><p>As far as the ease of writs i guess i kinda agree on that point as well .. but it did use to be harder ... i think it should be alot harder.</p>

[Elanjar]

<p><cite>Naemesis@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>I like the concept of tiered pvp gear. I also would like to see the requirement to buy some of the weaker pieces (gloves boots bracers ...) to unlock the best pieces (chest pants...). Or this can be achieved through costs like it was in EOF, with the best pieces being significantly more expensive. Raiders don't run around with their chest and pants the first week of an expansion, there is no reason pvpers would.</blockquote><p>Teired pvp gear ftw.</p><p>give us a set thats marginally better that what would have been tso t2 gear for the current prices 20-30 writs appiece. Then have an upgraded set that requires you to get the lower set first that has fabled almost raid equivalent gear. Prices on the second set should be 40-50 tokens + the lower tier piece. That gives 60-80 writs for a raid equivalent piece. Jewelry should not be teired though imo.</p>

[Ol]

<p><cite>Chia_Pet wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Ok, first lets make one thing clear. currently PvP gear is WAY too easy to obtain. so right out the door I think it should be boosted Back UP to around 500 tokens for a single peice, except BP and Legs which should be around 750 or so.</p></blockquote><p>Quite obviously, no. Gaining enough tokens for a set of pvp gear with the old system took forever. it would take way to long to get even one piece of gear. The current system did push it to far, but old system was just as bad. an average between the two would be better, about 50 writs for everything but BP/legs and 75 writs for BP/legs tbh.</p>

[Messia]

<p>You know what would be really awesome is if a PVP writ gave you a specific amount of players to kill and then gave you a specific Player of the oposite fation to hunt down and kill ... NOW THAT would be awesome <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p>

[Ol]

<p><cite>Messia@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You know what would be really awesome is if a PVP writ gave you a specific amount of players to kill and then gave you a specific Player of the oposite fation to hunt down and kill ... NOW THAT would be awesome <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> </p></blockquote><p>Until you get someone that hides in immunity for hours or the warden that runs at 100%</p>

[BlueEternal]

<p><cite>Ocik@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Messia@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You know what would be really awesome is if a PVP writ gave you a specific amount of players to kill and then gave you a specific Player of the oposite fation to hunt down and kill ... NOW THAT would be awesome <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> </p></blockquote><p>Until you get someone that hides in immunity for hours or the warden that runs at 100%</p></blockquote><p>Or you get someone who rarely pvps or plays in a different timezone <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Ol]

<p><cite>Naroc@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ocik@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Messia@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You know what would be really awesome is if a PVP writ gave you a specific amount of players to kill and then gave you a specific Player of the oposite fation to hunt down and kill ... NOW THAT would be awesome <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> </p></blockquote><p>Until you get someone that hides in immunity for hours or the warden that runs at 100%</p></blockquote><p>Or you get someone who rarely pvps or plays in a different timezone <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>If this was to be played out i would guess it would be same zone only really, just so that doesnt happen <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Messia]

<p><cite>Ocik@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Naroc@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ocik@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Messia@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You know what would be really awesome is if a PVP writ gave you a specific amount of players to kill and then gave you a specific Player of the oposite fation to hunt down and kill ... NOW THAT would be awesome <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> </p></blockquote><p>Until you get someone that hides in immunity for hours or the warden that runs at 100%</p></blockquote><p>Or you get someone who rarely pvps or plays in a different timezone <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>If this was to be played out i would guess it would be same zone only really, just so that doesnt happen <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>they could just be someone online ... and maybe you could speak to an assassin tracker npc or something that might give you a clue as to what zone that person is in ... obviously it would have to exclude raid zones cause that would be boring. </p>

[Chia_Pet]

<p>Ok guys...this is an IDEA, numbers arent se t in stone. maybe having each peice being less tokens is fine, I still think they should be WAY more then they are now.</p><p>Look at it this way from what I personally experineced.</p><p>For almost a year since TSO came out I pvpd my butt off when i could, often fighting against much better equiped raiders trying to get my BP the first peice. I was out every day busting my rump to get it, man i wanted disco badly on that thing. so i worked and worked and it took almost a month of fighting to get it, meanwhile i watych raid geared people come out after raids and having a much easier time of the PvP because they were in the best raid guilds, thus they were getting thier PvP gear easier then i was.</p><p>Abel, an awesome pally beat me to the BP disco by about a week. He however was in a top raid guild that came over from exile (used to be kraken) so he had his myth, he had full set of VP gear and had access to drops from trak as well...i however had legendary instance gear for my selection...</p><p>At some point lavastorm was redone, and tons of people logged in and got a bunch of the PvP gear that way. still slow but much faster then intended. Sadly I missed out on the first 2 weeks because i was away.</p><p>From then on I worked my butt again, lavastorm helped me get my legs. from when that took place to this latest update I was able to get 5 peices of armor and 2 peices of jewelry in the 10-11 months or so since release. I never got to play as much as I wanted, writs could sometimes take DAYS to complete because when I logged on the PvP was so dead you couldnt find a freaking mage.  I could never commit to a riad guild because of my time schedule. I never got ANY worthwhile Raid gear at all...</p><p>People never wanted the PvP gear and thus never even tried to get it because even the tier 2 tso legendary stuff was better except for crit mit. so people got a BP and maybe legs for the 50% crit mit, then used the tier 2 and then tier3 TSO stuff when they could get it.</p><p>People im guilded with, people ive ran with, all havent engaged in much PvP hardly had any PvP gear or tokens, then GU53 hit.</p><p>I was in freaking honduras that week, i got back then had to work out of town for the following week. simply 1 and a half weeks, and people who never had one peice of PvP gear on thier toons now had FULL FARKING SETS, bypassing me in a freaking week and a half...I was really PO.</p><p>Im sorry but gaining a FULL freaking set of PvP raid quality gear in less then 2 weeks is wrong, and NOBODY here has a good arguement otherwise.</p>

[Chia_Pet]

<p><cite>Natthan@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Those 2 things for raiding is much harder then say, Hitting a blue AE in TG and running around getting 6 updates while other people kill everything.</p></blockquote><p>I kill people with My AoE's and thats when im being ganked by a full group and im the only Q around...</p>

[EndevorX]

<p><cite>Dorsan@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Well actually it was other way... One example that comes to my mind is the fame system that we have now. It was suggested and then pushed through on this forum and now we can "enjoy" it.</blockquote><p>Players never suggested it be implemented in such a shoddy manner where feedback and constructive criticism was completely ignored (aside from the obvious bugs with killing those in fame range spurring fame loss).</p>

[MokiCh]

<p>Like I said in the other thread, I think the only reason it's so easy to get right now is because the expansion is right around the corner. I think in T9 we'll see the cost go up again slightly.</p>

[Paikis]

<p><cite>MokiChan wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Like I said in the other thread, I think the only reason it's so easy to get right now is because the expansion is right around the corner. I think in T9 we'll see the cost go up again slightly.</p></blockquote><p>This.</p>

[Thinwizzy]

<p><cite>Paikis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>MokiChan wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Like I said in the other thread, I think the only reason it's so easy to get right now is because the expansion is right around the corner. I think in T9 we'll see the cost go up again slightly.</p></blockquote><p>This.</p></blockquote><p>I wish I could believe this, but I am not seeing any evidence right now that this will be the case.  It seems as though our pvp dev is all for letting people gear out in pvp gear super quick.</p>

[Ahlana]

<p><cite>Thinwizzy@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Paikis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>MokiChan wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Like I said in the other thread, I think the only reason it's so easy to get right now is because the expansion is right around the corner. I think in T9 we'll see the cost go up again slightly.</p></blockquote><p>This.</p></blockquote><p>I wish I could believe this, but I am not seeing any evidence right now that this will be the case.  It seems as though our pvp dev is all for letting people gear out in pvp gear super quick.</p></blockquote><p>There is no evidence against either.. considering the changes to vallues do indeed come with the next expansion on the horizon we can't say that it is either coincidence, or that prices will increase with next expansion. It is too early to say unless Olhin (sp) comes and speaks for himself /shrug</p>

[Faenril]

<p><cite>Antanello@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Dorsan@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Well actually it was other way... One example that comes to my mind is the fame system that we have now. It was suggested and then pushed through on this forum and now we can "enjoy" it.</blockquote><p>Players never suggested it be implemented in such a shoddy manner where feedback and constructive criticism was completely ignored (aside from the obvious bugs with killing those in fame range spurring fame loss).</p></blockquote><p>Players usually come with vague ideas, they grab a concept and think "oh this would be cool in game".</p><p>They typically don't try to figure technical implications, side effects or potential exploits/unintended consequences, or impact on other playstyles.</p><p>This is all the job of the developpers to pick the good ideas and refine them to get something that can safely be implemented, as free as possible of exploits and downsides, while trying to preserve all playstyles.</p><p>Often this work is not done, when they pick player's ideas they just put them with minimal thought and then it takes ages to get anything changed, because maybe it's cool on paper and they just don't care or realize if it works in daily player's life because they don't play their game, or don't play it enough to know it well and anticipate player behaviors.</p><p>Best examples are writs and fame decay. Both decent ideas with good potential which ended up ruined by horrible implementation.</p>

[MokiCh]

<p>What's wrong with writs? The fame decay sucks, but the writs are a [Removed for Content] sight better than the chest dropped tokens we had before, especially now that the class requirements have been removed.</p>

[Faenril]

<p><cite>MokiChan wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>What's wrong with writs? The fame decay sucks, but the writs are a [Removed for Content] sight better than the chest dropped tokens we had before, especially now that the class requirements have been removed.</p></blockquote><p>- 50 ppl from different parties getting a "token" for one single kill. Killing any remote effort vs reward concept.</p><p>- getting credit while dead</p><p>- getting credit after reviving</p><p>- class requirements. Now fixed but how long did it take, and remember the exile requirement which was major lulz at writs launch, which nobody actually playing the game could ever have come up with.</p><p>- concentration of the pvp in a very few hot spots (1 actually at tier <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> due to the writ giver mechanic - causing server crashes occasionnally.</p><p>- Interruption of the pvp hunt as ppl need to wait for the writ cooldown. Granted you don't HAVE to wait for writs to pvp, though you still SHOULD get credit for each kill. The writ cooldown timer is the direct consequence of the ill design of the writs: they trivialize earning tokens, so the devs put an artificial limit to the amount of tokens you earn over time. It's just a bandaid fix to a poorly thought mechanic in the first place.</p><p>That's just a few things wrong with writs, from the top of my head.</p>

[MokiCh]

<p>Fair points. Those things could certainly use some improvement, but I also maintain that, however imperfect, the writs are still an improvement over body dropped tokens in that they at least create a level playing field where solo gankers aren't the only people getting tokens.</p><p>Unfortunately, most of the solutions I've seen thrown around on this forum either cater to the crowd that has unlimited leisure time by building in ridiculous time sinks (going back to the city for each writ turn in, etc), or else demand a return to body dropped tokens. The only solution I could think of that would please both camps would be something like a guy in each city that lets you pick one piece of gear for every X number of kills you get. Once you get all the gear he has to offer, he could give you money or status. Of course, a system like that would be just as vulnerable to zergs as the current one is, and probably would let you get gear even faster.</p><p>It's a tricky problem, and I don't pretend to have a solution for it. Like I said in another thread, I think the zerg is only a symptom of the real problem. The real problem is the attitude of the playerbase. As long as they need some kind of incentive to come PvP, there's always going to be those that will sit down and figure out the quickest, most efficient way to get that PvP gear, and once that solution becomes widely known you'll see everyone and their mother doing it.</p><p>I think we're stuck with writs for the time being, unless we want to go back to the faction based merchants of KOS.</p>

[Silverzx]

<p><cite>Chia_Pet wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Ok, first lets make one thing clear. currently PvP gear is WAY too easy to obtain. so right out the door I think it should be boosted Back UP to around 500 tokens for a single peice, except BP and Legs which should be around 750 or so.</p><p>That being said we need to look at making the gear available earlier in the tier, much like the first tier of raid gear. say around lvl 87. This should be done by setting the gear up like the current shard gear, where peices can be upgradeable.</p><p>This first set of gear should be on par or slightly under that of the first tier of raid gear released with the expansion. these peices should cost say 250-300 tokens a peice with the upgrades only wearable at lvl 90 and on par or slightly worse then the top tier raid gear, not including Avatar gear which should only be for the raiders that can get it. This will allow people to chose an alternate meathod of getting gear, but force them to work for it. while zerging and amss updates can be debated as a problem, making the top end PvP gear as expensive as it used to be if not moreso should tone things down.</p><p>This set up allows player to work toward good gear, gain the benefits of set bonuses ealier on yet not make them overpowerful. secondly itll allow the PvP to be a bit more even from the beginning of the expansion on through any updates in the future. this way any new updates increasing raid gear as is inevitable will allow for yet a third tier, etc of PvP gear allowing players to continuously upgrade. the third tier of PvP gear which wouldnt be released until a new update to better Raid gear would probale cost on the order of 1000 tokens for the BP. These changes would allow new players coming up later in the life of the expansion the ability to get decent gear as they lvled and continue to upgrade and have some semblance of a chance while also promoting constant PvP.</p><p>this model should also be used for the PvP jewelry as well as weapons. IF sony decides to add in yet New Mythicals for tier 9, then perhaps this time around PvPrs could get something similiar requiring some serious PvP stipulations such as killing 2000 enemies with a certain percentage of them being certain classes or some such.</p><p>I personally dont feel that PvE and PvP should be seperate as others have argued as it is nice to work at both to get the things needed to be successful and most importantly not a cookie cutter setup where everyone is wearing the same freaking gear. there needs to be choices and I feel both should be used interchangably.</p></blockquote><p>i want some of what you smokin</p>