the regular Test server [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

Abstract

10-21-2009, 12:15 PM

is it possable to get buffed to 80 with good gear on the regular test server? not the Test_Copy one.

Pervis

10-21-2009, 12:16 PM

No.

Calthine

10-21-2009, 12:57 PM

<cite>Htforthewin@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>is it possable to get buffed to 80 with good gear on the regular test server? not the Test_Copy one.</blockquote>Define "good gear".

Abstract

10-21-2009, 01:45 PM

better then treasured gear. i have toons there, i think i was to late to get one copied there.

Eveningsong

10-21-2009, 01:48 PM

Regular Test runs like any normal server; there's no copying, no buffing, just a 50% exp bonus to help people level up a bit faster than normal. It also is not subject to the occasional character wipes that Test_Copy is.

DocFlareon

10-21-2009, 02:18 PM

Any plans for Test to do the raid for server-wide unlocking of the frogs?

msheaf

10-22-2009, 12:23 PM

It has been done several times in the past, but for some reason the flag keeps getting reset.

Eveningsong

10-22-2009, 12:38 PM

You can create froglok characters if you do the individual quest to unlock it on your account on the Test server (I don't think doing it on a Live server unlocks it for Test as well).

bks6721

10-29-2009, 07:29 AM

can characters be transferred to the test server from a live server? with the new token on the marketplace maybe?<a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=242215" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=242215</a>it was possible at one time, just wondering if we can still move to test.

Kiara

10-30-2009, 01:44 PM

Characters cannot transfer to or from the Test server. One must start a new character in order to play there.Test-copy is the only server where you can copy an existing character for testing purposes, and that server gets wiped from time to time.That link is no longer valid. It's fairly safe to assume that if it's that old, that it no longer applies <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

tkia

10-30-2009, 02:11 PM

<cite>Eveningsong wrote:</cite><blockquote>You can create froglok characters if you do the individual quest to unlock it on your account on the Test server (I don't think doing it on a Live server unlocks it for Test as well).</blockquote>Yes it does. I can create frogloks on test and I've only done the quest twice with live toons. Quest completion should be flagging the account, irrespective of the region you opt to play in.

Gamer1965

10-30-2009, 02:49 PM

<cite>tkia wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Eveningsong wrote:</cite><blockquote>You can create froglok characters if you do the individual quest to unlock it on your account on the Test server (I don't think doing it on a Live server unlocks it for Test as well).</blockquote>Yes it does. I can create frogloks on test and I've only done the quest twice with live toons. Quest completion should be flagging the account, irrespective of the region you opt to play in.</blockquote>I also wanna confirm this... I've only done the quest 1 time on Live and I can create frogloks on TEST...

bks6721

10-30-2009, 09:20 PM

<cite>Kiara wrote:</cite><blockquote>Characters cannot transfer to or from the Test server. One must start a new character in order to play there.Test-copy is the only server where you can copy an existing character for testing purposes, and that server gets wiped from time to time.That link is no longer valid. It's fairly safe to assume that if it's that old, that it no longer applies <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>bummer, I'd play there full time if I could move one of my characters. Asking us to start over from scratch might explain tests low population.

Rheassi

10-31-2009, 02:46 PM

Last month hubby and I started over on test.. I was glad we could not copy or transfer over as I really have enjoyed starting from scratch.. I love the community on test and no longer even play my toons on live.. Allowing someone to transfer or buff on test I think would ruin the close knit community we have.. I hope to never see that happen..Rheassi

bks6721

10-31-2009, 08:14 PM

<cite>Rheassi wrote:</cite><blockquote>Last month hubby and I started over on test.. I was glad we could not copy or transfer over as I really have enjoyed starting from scratch.. I love the community on test and no longer even play my toons on live.. Allowing someone to transfer or buff on test I think would ruin the close knit community we have.. I hope to never see that happen..Rheassi</blockquote>One would hope that the PRIMARY focus of the test server is to TEST. It sounds like the "close knit" community isn't concerned that TESTING is the sole purpose for that server. Little happy family soloing guilds exist on all servers, not just on test.

hellfire

10-31-2009, 08:28 PM

<cite>Rheassi wrote:</cite><blockquote>Allowing someone to transfer or buff on test I think would ruin the close knit community we have.. I hope to never see that happen..Rheassi</blockquote>How would this impact.......testing content?

Rheassi

11-01-2009, 12:22 AM

Everyone here is focused on testing.. We enjoy testing the content and finding all there is to find.. The close knit community is good because everyone has their own way to look at things and the exchange of information helps with testing.. Finding bugs and figureing out how things can be broken is a team effort..You are also more aware of how you interact with the people around you which means there is a lot more respect shown and very little drama.. All of that adds to a very healthly testing enviroment.

Calthine

11-01-2009, 02:24 AM

<cite>Rheassi wrote:</cite><blockquote>The close knit community is good because everyone has their own way to look at things and the exchange of information helps with testing.. Finding bugs and figureing out how things can be broken is a team effort..</blockquote>You ain't seen cooperation until you've seen the Test community start ripping into an update. It's a thing of beauty!

Finora

11-01-2009, 03:13 AM

<cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rheassi wrote:</cite><blockquote>The close knit community is good because everyone has their own way to look at things and the exchange of information helps with testing.. Finding bugs and figureing out how things can be broken is a team effort..</blockquote>You ain't seen cooperation until you've seen the Test community start ripping into an update. It's a thing of beauty!</blockquote>Indeed it is!As for those who wonder why it's not like 'other' games that just let you copy over and test what you want when you want, Test server is supposed to be a miniature Live server, not just a bunch of folks copied over to test one raid and leaving after that's done. There are people that play most styles (yes there are even some raid, though not the highest end, on test) and content gets tested on a daily basis in the ways that people on a regular server would play on a daily basis.Test copy is there for those that want to do the copy over or buff up to test specific things that could affect their characters. That's also where a lot of the testing of raid content goes on I believe (never happens at a time I'm available). And of course when there are PVP changes or gamewide changes that could affect PVP Testcopy becomes PVP activated.

Abstract

11-01-2009, 10:56 AM

im sure they let ppl copy over to there, back when the game started. i remember people talking about it. just after EQ2 launched. . thats the only reason why i mentioned it. as for the community on Test, IDK. only interacted with a few diff ppl. i havent got much to say about them. I do feel like they hate people that play on live servers tho lol.<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/49869fe8223507d7223db3451e5321aa.gif" border="0" />

Aurel

11-01-2009, 11:23 AM

They only hate the rotten livers. The nice, clean livers seem to be welcome in test.test channel! At least from what I've seen.

bks6721

11-02-2009, 04:40 AM

<cite>Rheassi wrote:</cite><blockquote>Everyone here is focused on testing.. We enjoy testing the content and finding all there is to find.. The close knit community is good because everyone has their own way to look at things and the exchange of information helps with testing.. Finding bugs and figureing out how things can be broken is a team effort..You are also more aware of how you interact with the people around you which means there is a lot more respect shown and very little drama.. All of that adds to a very healthly testing enviroment.</blockquote>I disagree. I recently JOINED one of the biggest guilds on test only to learn that most of them had never been in a TSO dungeon and that most of them haven't done their epic weapon quests. Half a dozen level 80's where online in my new guild and only one of them seemed even slightly interested in doing their fabled epic quest. There was NO interest in TESTING that content. Everyone was TESTING the Hollow Hedge and the crafting stations.From what I have seen during my first week on test is that EVERYONE is soloing or crafting. I sat by the daily double guy in Moors for 9 hours. Didn't see a single person.All I'm saying, is if we could copy OUR characters over to test maybe the content that is not being tested, could be. I fail to see why anyone interested in the health of the overall game would object to that. We wouldn't come over to dominate your broker, nothing sells there. Starting from scratch there blows. Nothing sells on the broker so you can't level at a decent pace to TEST the content, the purpose of the server.

bks6721

11-02-2009, 04:44 AM

<cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rheassi wrote:</cite><blockquote>The close knit community is good because everyone has their own way to look at things and the exchange of information helps with testing.. Finding bugs and figureing out how things can be broken is a team effort..</blockquote>You ain't seen cooperation until you've seen the Test community start ripping into an update. It's a thing of beauty!</blockquote> if you mean level 80's still running around with last years Frostfell armor, I'd agree. Does anyone on test even have shard gear? The people I have met and talked to have admitted to me that they play on TEST for the low population and easier soloing. This is a level 80 guild btw. No epics, no dungeon running, no TESTING.

bks6721

11-02-2009, 04:54 AM

edited.. I sound terribly negative about this I know. Not trying to.Sorry, I recently joined a guild on test only to learn that many, if not most of the 80's had ever run a dungeon or ever plan to run anything other than low level HQ's.While watching a movie a couple days ago I parked myself near the shard quest giver by the Commonlands zones. The ONLY people I saw where mentored to 50. Seriously if NOBODY is running these zones just HOW is it being tested?How can anyone explain the majority of the level 80's in a level 80 guild never bothering to start their epic weapon quest? I can only say the people I have been in contact with during my time on test is that they are NOT testers. They just like a low population. So, who IS testing?There are things that should get tested other than soloing, crafting and harvesting. I'm sure level 30 hq's have been tested enough by now. Has ANYONE on test completed any of the TSO hq's?

Enica

11-02-2009, 05:22 PM

Do the epic quests need testing?

GlitterPaws

11-02-2009, 06:10 PM

Test copy is really the place for higher geared people to play and raid. If they wipe it, eh, so what, copy your character over again like every one else does. Test copy has very few below 80 players testing as copying over high toons is simple and, of course, the buffer is there.Test copy recently had a short run for PVP and that sounded like an experience and a half...sounds like right up your alley.Edited to remove possible bashing comments-gp

Strums

11-02-2009, 08:19 PM

Im not normaly one to post, but I can see both sides to this.In a perfect world, I would think the test server would be a decently populated server with the main focus hitting the latest content. If this has not been happening, then we have several issues here.First, the population of the test server, and second SOE for not making the test server an attractive enough place to create said population. A simple solution would be to allow the transfer of toons to the test server, and drop some kind of bonus on them...but it would have to be something big enough to promote players to transfer.On the flip side, the good ol'folks on test have been playing on that server for some time, and this has been their home. To just drop a bomb on them like this could be game breaking to some. When looking at it that way though, how much more damage is being done to the overall game with content not truly being tested. I dont play on test, and frankly have no desire to. But the point the OP has brought up did make me stop and think. Is it worth saving one small community or crafters and solo's over the wellbeing of a whole MMO.Oh, and about the epic quest, and them needing tested... You are probably right, they dont need tested now. However, I know several classes, including the most recent "Dirge" has had their myth weapon changed. Players look at this kinda thing like they were just hit by the "Nerf Bat" and it can be game breaking to some. Had this stuff been tested properly in the first place, we wouldnt have disgruntal players over "Nerf's" that could have been avoided.Just my 2cp though

GlitterPaws

11-02-2009, 11:25 PM

Y'all are aware that this is not the offical QA testing environment, right? This is a server that RL players are on.The OP does have valid points regarding testing. The OP also has some lightly veiled insults to the community.The test server is more of a basic progression server. The economy is flat, forcing players to earn their gear.Test Copy is there for the high end, fully geared out players to copy to and raid to their hearts content. Entire guilds can be copied over.In the case of a total [Removed for Content] the server can be wiped and ghosted. Players and guilds can be copied over again. The test server does not have that luxury.Test Copy is also a community. One that gets shell-shocked when an update is imminent and suddenly many players want to see how THEIR levels and THEIR classes are being treated. There is a flood of charcters copied over to the server during that time. This is a good thing.Test is there to find out how those changes are effecting the rest of the game. The game that the 1-80 in 4 days or less group doesn't see. This is also a good thing.If the OP wants a lead QA position I'd recommend applying through the offical channels. Heck, I'd even apply to that game the former baseball player is developing. I haven't seen squat regarding QA on that team and, yes, I do check periodically ))I get a kick out of this time of year....class projects are getting close to due, well-written mechanics suggestions, graphic suggestions, all around design suggestions are spammed to the major games and a lot of good information is shared. Projects are fleshed out. Who knows? A new game could come out of all the to-ing and fro-ing forum conversations. I suspect many changes come to many games out of the various forums. But, I digress.Leave the servers as they are. They provide many varied game play situations./off soap box

Enna

11-06-2009, 05:18 AM

I play on both Test server (regular) and on Live servers. I have been "resident" on both for nearly two years.When high-level content, including raid content, needs testing - it's usually tested on Test_Copy, with cloned or buffed characters. That content is *not* being neglected, as appears to be the primary concern of some prior posts.======================New things coming into Norrath are not only high-level, though. Many changes impact all levels, or include low and middle levels along with the higher levels."Growing" test-server characters through normal means helps get all levels of things tested. It also gets some of the less-popular zones re-checked for bugs, as characters continually progress through them.Live events need testing at all levels. One reason is to make sure that a "scale to level" event or instance is not inappropriately more difficult in one level range than in another.It's also important to know that non-raiders can participate effectively in the live events, and not just raid-geared characters.======================By the way, in case you didn't know... people playing on Test server are ** not ** employed by SOE. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />We don't get any wages, or bonus items, or subscription discounts, or any other compensation for playing on Test.We pay for our subscriptions just the same as everyone else, whether we play on standard Live servers or on the regular Test server, or both.It is not our "job" to test things 24/7... it is an option and an opportunity, that we pursue frequently. It is not an obligation we must pursue without pause.So we are not failing you -- or anyone else -- if we sometimes choose to relax and play the game, without testing something, even though we are doing that relaxing and playing on the Test server.======================If you're worried about high-level things being tested, encourage some of your high-level friends to /testcopy addThen go test the high-level stuff to your hearts' content. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

bks6721

11-06-2009, 05:51 AM

<cite>Enna wrote:</cite><blockquote>I play on both Test server (regular) and on Live servers. I have been "resident" on both for nearly two years.When high-level content, including raid content, needs testing - it's usually tested on Test_Copy, with cloned or buffed characters. That content is *not* being neglected, as appears to be the primary concern of some prior posts.======================New things coming into Norrath are not only high-level, though. Many changes impact all levels, or include low and middle levels along with the higher levels."Growing" test-server characters through normal means helps get all levels of things tested. It also gets some of the less-popular zones re-checked for bugs, as characters continually progress through them.Live events need testing at all levels. One reason is to make sure that a "scale to level" event or instance is not inappropriately more difficult in one level range than in another.It's also important to know that non-raiders can participate effectively in the live events, and not just raid-geared characters.======================By the way, in case you didn't know... people playing on Test server are ** not ** employed by SOE. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" />We don't get any wages, or bonus items, or subscription discounts, or any other compensation for playing on Test.We pay for our subscriptions just the same as everyone else, whether we play on standard Live servers or on the regular Test server, or both.It is not our "job" to test things 24/7... it is an option and an opportunity, that we pursue frequently. It is not an obligation we must pursue without pause.So we are not failing you -- or anyone else -- if we sometimes choose to relax and play the game, without testing something, even though we are doing that relaxing and playing on the Test server.======================If you're worried about high-level things being tested, encourage some of your high-level friends to /testcopy addThen go test the high-level stuff to your hearts' content. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>You've stated the current conditions perfectly. However, is there something inherently wrong with MOVING characters to test server to test this content? Why is it that this cannot be done? If I want to move to test and run shard zones I don't understand why the people currently soloing on test would object. I find it amazing to have guild officers tell me how they have only been to VOES once and never been in a shard zone. Why do people on test always point to test_copy? I have no desire to have a temporary character. I'd like to MOVE to test, make a home there without comepletely starting my characters (that have years of time invested) over from scratch. One would think a myth'd templar would be welcome to a community. I get the feeling that the only way I am welcome there is if I reroll and earn my gear all over again. What does that have to do with testing?

Trellium

11-06-2009, 01:33 PM

<cite>Pauly@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rheassi wrote:</cite><blockquote>Everyone here is focused on testing.. We enjoy testing the content and finding all there is to find.. The close knit community is good because everyone has their own way to look at things and the exchange of information helps with testing.. Finding bugs and figureing out how things can be broken is a team effort..You are also more aware of how you interact with the people around you which means there is a lot more respect shown and very little drama.. All of that adds to a very healthly testing enviroment.</blockquote>I disagree. I recently JOINED one of the biggest guilds on test only to learn that most of them had never been in a TSO dungeon and that most of them haven't done their epic weapon quests. Half a dozen level 80's where online in my new guild and only one of them seemed even slightly interested in doing their fabled epic quest. There was NO interest in TESTING that content. Everyone was TESTING the Hollow Hedge and the crafting stations.From what I have seen during my first week on test is that EVERYONE is soloing or crafting. I sat by the daily double guy in Moors for 9 hours. Didn't see a single person.All I'm saying, is if we could copy OUR characters over to test maybe the content that is not being tested, could be. I fail to see why anyone interested in the health of the overall game would object to that. We wouldn't come over to dominate your broker, nothing sells there. Starting from scratch there blows. Nothing sells on the broker so you can't level at a decent pace to TEST the content, the purpose of the server.</blockquote>This is the most ridiculous post I have seen in years.If you copy characters to Test server, and you buff characters on Test server, then you will end up with a population identical to Test Copy. duh.If you wanted to test this content on Test Copy, your guild was absolutely and entirely able to do so. YOU failed to test content, don't go blaming it on anything else. Had YOU shown interest, it is entirely trivial to copy characters to Test Copy and ... you know ... test content.Test is for testing ongoing, daily changes. Its testing in an environment that approaches a live server but it will never be a perfect replica of a live server for the simple reason that PATCHES ARE ONGOING. Patches can be a daily event.If you want to cry and blubber that you really need two test servers to get your caboose in gear compared to the population who does TESTING EACH AND EVERY DAY then perhaps you might glimpse why I could care less.Get to work. Otherwise, shut up and play. Or, write yourself a Dixie Chicks song and make it big. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" />

Trellium

11-06-2009, 01:49 PM

<cite>Pauly@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>You've stated the current conditions perfectly. However, is there something inherently wrong with MOVING characters to test server to test this content? Why is it that this cannot be done? If I want to move to test and run shard zones I don't understand why the people currently soloing on test would object.</blockquote>Gee, yeah. Someone wants to do 10 minutes of testing (usually only done when their live server is down) and wants to disrupt ongoing testing populations to do so. Gee, what a great idea. How about if all those copied characters decide they enjoy irritating plays on Test, because Test is not supposed ot have a "community", in spite of SOE's statements otherwise? Not like that has never been done, I have seen it on approximately 10 occassions on EQ1 test server.What precisely is the issue with using TEST COPY to do your highly intense and extremely precise testing? Explain why you need two, or three, or 12 servers for your "testing".How about you copy your character to TEST COPY, and do your "testing" of that 0.0001% of the game you decide on some whim is important to you that minute? You are not being held back, in fact we invite you to do so.But, stop saying that the only way you could possibly do "testing" is by disrupting a system that has existed for years and, population as low as it is, is still many times bigger than the one on Test Copy and much more stable.I simply don't understand why people can't put 2 and 2 together, and figure out that if the rules were the same on Test as they are on Test Copy, the population would also be identical. It's just such an enormous DUH.GO TEST. NOTHING IS STOPPING YOU. You are free to:* Make a new character on Test or Test Copy* Make a copy of an existing character from live to Test Copy* Buff a copy or a new character to 80 on Test Copy.None of these are show stopping issues to prevent you from doing something that so far, you are only willing to provide endless and useless excuses for. Stop telling people who are testing every single day, and helping dev's whenever they ask, to give up their testing environment because you need something you already have in order to start doing the testing you say you are unwilling to do.How much hand holding does it take for you to do the thing you claim is so vital? GO TEST. There is a 5 page list of new bug fixes from yesterday, have at it!What??!?!?! You have a raid and could only test a few minutes? Wow, what a surprise.

Finora

11-06-2009, 01:51 PM

<cite>Pauly@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>edited.. I sound terribly negative about this I know. Not trying to.Sorry, I recently joined a guild on test only to learn that many, if not most of the 80's had ever run a dungeon or ever plan to run anything other than low level HQ's.While watching a movie a couple days ago I parked myself near the shard quest giver by the Commonlands zones. The ONLY people I saw where mentored to 50. Seriously if NOBODY is running these zones just HOW is it being tested?How can anyone explain the majority of the level 80's in a level 80 guild never bothering to start their epic weapon quest? I can only say the people I have been in contact with during my time on test is that they are NOT testers. They just like a low population. So, who IS testing?There are things that should get tested other than soloing, crafting and harvesting. I'm sure level 30 hq's have been tested enough by now. Has ANYONE on test completed any of the TSO hq's?</blockquote>Call me crazy but didn't the quests for the epics get tested enough when they were released (note they were released on ALL servers at one time so the quests were a surprise, no insider info from Test server that time). Likewise with the normal shard zones. Those were supposed to be tested in oh...the Beta for TSO, not a year after the contents live release on test server. Things like the hollow hedge however were brand NEW content which did infact need to be tested. And it was. As were the moonlight events that were introduced over the summer, and like the Tinkerfest event, and like whatever new thing they come up with for Frostfell. Yes those are fluff, but yes they are also new content that if it gets released without testing people from live will whine about how the Testers don't do anything blah blah blah like they tend to do when something gets released buggy.Some of the new content is crafting content, the achievements had to be tested before they went live. Shard of Love, that got tested as well, both the quest to get entry and the zone itself.The devs and some guilds from test host testing of newer raid content on Test Copy (the one were live players can copy their decked out characters to to test out that particular content if they want as well). I haven't participated, but I've seen calls for people in the test channel and such.I don't play on test full time but I test any content my characters there are of a level for. There are many others over there that do the same. When there are high level changes I would like to investigate I tend to copy my main from live over and explore as best I can...since a surprisingly few people actually bother to /test copy despite the number of people who like to complain about things not getting properly tested.I must say I'm surprised that people hadn't gone to any TSO zones, but then again I've only gone to a handful myself on Live...and most not many times. I really hate some of them (one with the stupid bouncy thing god that is awful), other's I've just not had the opportunity or time to go to due to my play schedule. It happens. I still never made it to Emerald Halls either though, because back when people were actively doing it, it took more time than I had available to play. TSO wasn't exactly an awesome expansion in many people's eyes and as I'm not paid to play, I don't see any reason to subject myself to doing things I hate to do just to satisfy people who won't come test the changes themselves.That does sound mean, I know, but really testers are players too, who pay just like all the people on live servers. They just choose to play in a different environment which is frequently subjected to weird bugs and annoyances live servers never see (having all your combat/noncombat stuff like safefall and swimming reset to zero for example and many others, I think the broker guild hall floors never made it to live...I know the bizarre bug I found with guildhalls & supply depots didn't go live). The testers do test and they catch and report the majority of the bugs. Some get fixed by the devs before the content is released, some don't. Though I don't consider myself a full time tester, it really burns my bottom to have so many live players jump on the "Testers don't do crap" bandwagon.Now, as for actually starting over. It's not that hard. You can blow through content 1-25 or 30 in gear you quest and whatever spells drop without too much issue. If you ask in the channel you can almost always find someone willing to make your spells/combatarts/armor/weapons and what not. Sometimes they do it for free. People often give away spells and gear that drop. They have meet and greets where the people of the server get together and exchange items etc.Starting over on a live server would be considerably more difficult.

Trellium

11-06-2009, 02:03 PM

<cite>Pauly@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>One would think a myth'd templar would be welcome to a community. I get the feeling that the only way I am welcome there is if I reroll and earn my gear all over again. What does that have to do with testing?</blockquote>Once again, this is not hard. By being a myth'd templar, you are pointing out that you did NOT test the previous 80 levels. Testing is more than that. Changes to the game need testing everywhere, and that includes testing for new player content.My wife and I left Live after 3 years and moved to Test two months ago. In that time we have several level 70s characters, one level 80 tradeskiller and 4 that are in their 60s, plus we restarted our guild on Test and it is level 20. All that in two months. But, of course, to you that isn't "testing". It is PRECISELY testing, since it is testing of the game for new issues that come about due to constant game changes.Nothing is stopping you from making a new character on Test. If you want to test with your wonderously fabulous ultra cleric, you can do so on Test Copy whenever you wish, and as much as you want.If you want to start a new character, you are free to do so. Stop making excuses why you can't, when people like us show that it can be done.We have characters on Test Copy. We have characters on live. We have characters on Test. And, we actually do testing by playing the content to make sure it is working as expected.

bks6721

11-06-2009, 02:19 PM

<cite>Trellium wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Pauly@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>One would think a myth'd templar would be welcome to a community. I get the feeling that the only way I am welcome there is if I reroll and earn my gear all over again. What does that have to do with testing?</blockquote>Once again, this is not hard. By being a myth'd templar, you are pointing out that you did NOT test the previous 80 levels. Testing is more than that. Changes to the game need testing everywhere, and that includes testing for new player content.My wife and I left Live after 3 years and moved to Test two months ago. In that time we have several level 70s characters, one level 80 tradeskiller and 4 that are in their 60s, plus we restarted our guild on Test and it is level 20. All that in two months. But, of course, to you that isn't "testing". It is PRECISELY testing, since it is testing of the game for new issues that come about due to constant game changes.Nothing is stopping you from making a new character on Test. If you want to test with your wonderously fabulous ultra cleric, you can do so on Test Copy whenever you wish, and as much as you want.If you want to start a new character, you are free to do so. Stop making excuses why you can't, when people like us show that it can be done.We have characters on Test Copy. We have characters on live. We have characters on Test. And, we actually do testing by playing the content to make sure it is working as expected.</blockquote> I haven't raided in months. I have HUNDREDS of hours on my characters. I'm willing to MOVE to test, to help the testers. By stating this I get bashed by TESTERS? I get told that starting over is more important than testing.SOE.. this is why test server is such a low population.

bks6721

11-06-2009, 02:23 PM

<cite>Trellium wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Pauly@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rheassi wrote:</cite><blockquote>Everyone here is focused on testing.. We enjoy testing the content and finding all there is to find.. The close knit community is good because everyone has their own way to look at things and the exchange of information helps with testing.. Finding bugs and figureing out how things can be broken is a team effort..You are also more aware of how you interact with the people around you which means there is a lot more respect shown and very little drama.. All of that adds to a very healthly testing enviroment.</blockquote>I disagree. I recently JOINED one of the biggest guilds on test only to learn that most of them had never been in a TSO dungeon and that most of them haven't done their epic weapon quests. Half a dozen level 80's where online in my new guild and only one of them seemed even slightly interested in doing their fabled epic quest. There was NO interest in TESTING that content. Everyone was TESTING the Hollow Hedge and the crafting stations.From what I have seen during my first week on test is that EVERYONE is soloing or crafting. I sat by the daily double guy in Moors for 9 hours. Didn't see a single person.All I'm saying, is if we could copy OUR characters over to test maybe the content that is not being tested, could be. I fail to see why anyone interested in the health of the overall game would object to that. We wouldn't come over to dominate your broker, nothing sells there. Starting from scratch there blows. Nothing sells on the broker so you can't level at a decent pace to TEST the content, the purpose of the server.</blockquote>This is the most ridiculous post I have seen in years.If you copy characters to Test server, and you buff characters on Test server, then you will end up with a population identical to Test Copy. duh.If you wanted to test this content on Test Copy, your guild was absolutely and entirely able to do so. YOU failed to test content, don't go blaming it on anything else. Had YOU shown interest, it is entirely trivial to copy characters to Test Copy and ... you know ... test content.Test is for testing ongoing, daily changes. Its testing in an environment that approaches a live server but it will never be a perfect replica of a live server for the simple reason that PATCHES ARE ONGOING. Patches can be a daily event.If you want to cry and blubber that you really need two test servers to get your caboose in gear compared to the population who does TESTING EACH AND EVERY DAY then perhaps you might glimpse why I could care less.Get to work. Otherwise, shut up and play. Or, write yourself a Dixie Chicks song and make it big. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>So what you are saying then is that TEST server is NOT for testing anything requiring level 70 or above? You think that should ONLY be tested on a temporary server like test_copy?I never asked for a BUFFER. I want to MOVE my characters. I will NOT destroy your server any more than MOVING characters from one live server to another.Being rude does not prove your point.

bks6721

11-06-2009, 02:41 PM

<cite>Finora@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Pauly@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>edited.. I sound terribly negative about this I know. Not trying to.Sorry, I recently joined a guild on test only to learn that many, if not most of the 80's had ever run a dungeon or ever plan to run anything other than low level HQ's.While watching a movie a couple days ago I parked myself near the shard quest giver by the Commonlands zones. The ONLY people I saw where mentored to 50. Seriously if NOBODY is running these zones just HOW is it being tested?How can anyone explain the majority of the level 80's in a level 80 guild never bothering to start their epic weapon quest? I can only say the people I have been in contact with during my time on test is that they are NOT testers. They just like a low population. So, who IS testing?There are things that should get tested other than soloing, crafting and harvesting. I'm sure level 30 hq's have been tested enough by now. Has ANYONE on test completed any of the TSO hq's?</blockquote>Now, as for actually starting over. It's not that hard. You can blow through content 1-25 or 30 in gear you quest and whatever spells drop without too much issue. If you ask in the channel you can almost always find someone willing to make your spells/combatarts/armor/weapons and what not. Sometimes they do it for free. People often give away spells and gear that drop. They have meet and greets where the people of the server get together and exchange items etc.Starting over on a live server would be considerably more difficult.</blockquote>Starting over in a 5yr old game is not an option for me. I have no desire to play a powerleveled character. I take a little pride in my character just as I am sure you do.It seems I am only welcome to test if I start over? Why? I can play on any other server without starting over. Why is starting over MORE important than the fact that I'm willing to commit this character to the test server to HELP people with testing. Sorry I just don't understand the hostility I am getting from TESTERS when I ask if I can bring my character to their server to help THEM.HOW does moving a character to test to play full time hurt the test server? I am waiting for this explanation.

Gamer1965

11-06-2009, 03:17 PM

<blockquote>HOW does moving a character to test to play full time hurt the test server? I am waiting for this explanation.</blockquote>It doesn't (at least as far as the population on TEST is aware). But, unfortunately, SOE put those rules in place. Only SOE can give you the explanation necessary to answer your question.

Chikkin

11-06-2009, 03:23 PM

Pauly, what is your character's name on test? and which guild are you talking about?

Jarazi

11-06-2009, 03:28 PM

When I came to test it was to test the Arasai and Neriak pack. I left behind a lvl 67 Inquisitor at the time cap was 70. After 2 weeks of just playing on test I decided to never go back to a live server, at the time I had a lvl 20 bruiser on test, I have never looked back. I was sold on the Close Knit community. I use to tell people that came from live to play on test for 2 weeks straight don't play on live and test both. After 2 weeks decide where you like to play the best. Most players from live don't want to be away from their live toons for that long. But the Test server is full of players that have left behind a Mythed Toon so your arguement is falling on deaf ears. Most have lvl 80 toons here on test now. And we are starting to do the raid content, but the hard Part about raiding is that with a server pop that can range from 30-60 during the week and may hit 100 on the weekends it is hard to set up raids when you are needing people from the entire server. And I do run Shard instances in Color if we can get a group and grey if we can't. Like others have stated I also wasn't impressed with the TSO expansion and tend to stay away from there. but we do still run the zones on occasion. I am one of the leaders of one of the biggest guilds on test we have a variety of 80s but at any given time may only have 2 or 3 on. but if we get an update we are all testing the new content that we can test. We test what we can if you would like to bring your whole guild to test and work your way up to test raid content then we would welcome you but to say the reason why you won't come to test is because you can't transfer your toon is a very poor excuse. Like I said almost all of us have left behind toons.I too am curious about what guild you are in on test.Jarazi ThunderfistLVL 80 Bruiser/LVL 80 Alchemist 200AAsLeader of Valiant KnightsLVL 80 guild on the Test server.

Khiara

11-06-2009, 04:37 PM

I'm not entirely sure why people from live are hammering over and over on the testers about not being able to copy to standard test srvr. You DO realize that it's SOE's decision to NOT allow this ..not the players on test...right? Just checking. That being said...as someone with 2 accounts and multiple lvl 80's both in adventuring and ts I've recently came to test.copy server and am absolutely loving it...tho the population really varies and you do solo alot...which I don't mind. The problem I could see with being allowed to copy 80 toons to test is what's been stated before and that I've SEEN on test.copy. You get the people who...for whatever reason...can't play on their servers for some reason and head on over to test to begin bellowing for duels and generally being rude to people while they pass the time. Leave the test server alone and copy to TEST.COPY if that's what you want..it's all the same ftlog!!/rant off

Trellium

11-06-2009, 05:18 PM

<cite>Pauly@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Starting over in a 5yr old game is not an option for me. I have no desire to play a powerleveled character. I take a little pride in my character just as I am sure you do.It seems I am only welcome to test if I start over? Why? I can play on any other server without starting over. Why is starting over MORE important than the fact that I'm willing to commit this character to the test server to HELP people with testing. Sorry I just don't understand the hostility I am getting from TESTERS when I ask if I can bring my character to their server to help THEM.HOW does moving a character to test to play full time hurt the test server? I am waiting for this explanation.</blockquote>I started over, its not that hard. The effort put in writing these posts could have gotten you to level 15.The problem isn't with MOVES to test, its copies. One server gets copies the other gets moves. Nope, no chance of confusion there. And also there is the issue that Test server may or may not have a database in the same state as live. How much dev time should be given to that ongoing issue? Should there be a charge, like when moving to other servers. Free copies to TestCopy, but charged moves to Test is fine with me. The moves and copies are both one way, you never go back.But, don't say you can't test. You can by copying to TestCopy. Don't say you don't like the community here when the community is regularly bobarded with copy requests. "We can MOVE to Test, but not copy?!?!??!?!?!?!" Why the *&*^ not?!?!?!". I put 135 years into my character and my friends, and to Test I have to give up all those friends?!?!?!".You see where this goes?The biggest issue is its a new argument to you, and an old one for me. I am new to EQ2 Test but I have my years on EQ1 Test and we had the same complaints. On EQ2 they go the extra mile to provide free duplications to a test environment, or you can grow your own character on Test.You want both on the same server. On the one hand you are upset with the Test community and on the other you want to fit in. Getting to 80 isn't hard. You get a bonus here for adventure and tradeskills. You get people who help you. You get to try new things.You have options, but don't use them. You want a lot of extra dev work and risk of moves to test corruptions to the database for ... what? What is it you can't possibly do? Reroll? Think of Test as a place to make an alt then. Come here over time, work them up, decide if you like the community. That advice really does work for any server you move to, doesn't it?It's not a simple process, there are issues. Its always going to be a one way move, because of test items or issues or errors, or whatever. You won't be able to undo the move. So, if you are so attached to your character why would you risk it to play on Test, of all places? You might not be happy here. Then what? A thread on why you really think moves from test should be fine, and what's the issue if you can move from other servers?See, you make no sense to me. You want to test, make a character. You want to test high level stuff, copy to Testcopy. With that system, risk is really low and no matter how you feel down the road you have options.With your system, your option is to play your character on Test. You don't like it here, or your friends leave, or whatever ... then what are your options?You say this is such a special character to you that you would never reroll, yet you gamble it on a test environment? Sorry, I don't get it.

Finora

11-06-2009, 07:25 PM

<cite>Trellium wrote:</cite><blockquote>See, you make no sense to me. You want to test, make a character. You want to test high level stuff, copy to Testcopy. With that system, risk is really low and no matter how you feel down the road you have options.With your system, your option is to play your character on Test. You don't like it here, or your friends leave, or whatever ... then what are your options?You say this is such a special character to you that you would never reroll, yet you gamble it on a test environment? Sorry, I don't get it.</blockquote>You stated that pretty well. It would be like allowing people to move to an exchange server. It would have to be one way because of the xp bonuses and what not, should SOE ever decide it was worth their while to do it./waves and cheers at Jarazi

bks6721

11-06-2009, 10:17 PM

<cite>Ennia wrote:</cite><blockquote>Pauly, what is your character's name on test? and which guild are you talking about?</blockquote>I had a monk named Pauly on test. After 2 weeks and a few conversations I deleted the character because I got the hint that higher level groups rarely happen. I could name the guild but I feel that would be rude. Everyone can play their own playstyle and don't deserve to be insulted for it. I'm not here to insult people. I am far, far away from being a "hardcore" player. i don't raid, but I solo some, and try to group as often as I can. I like running hq's, the higher level the better. It's sad that I'm told I should go to test_copy for that. I don't image its much fun leveling a guild on a server that gets reset occasionally but thats what I've been told I should do. /shrugIt wasn't long ago that a redname posted a topic about getting more people to play on test server. That alone hints that even soe would like more people playing on test. I don't understand the obcession of everyone insisting we start over if we want to play on test full time. <-- FULL TIME, not /test_copy add to check out a new zone for 45 minutes.There would be nothing wrong with having more people playing in level 80+ zones on test. It isn't written anywhere that they can only be done on test_copy with buffed characters.I find it a little insulting when I offer up my 3 level 80 adventures, 9 crafters to test and people talk to me as if I am stupid. Some people are acting ilke they are threatened somehow because I asked if/when another move would ever be available from live like it was in the past.--IF-- people where allowed to MOVE to test maybe more people would be willing to play on test server. This is something soe has expressed an interest in. Maybe test would get more people that like to group a little more often. I honestly was under the impression that zones like Necrotic Asylum ect where run regularly on test. Everyone seems to know most everyone on test, yet one of my guild officers says she didn't know anyone who's been in EA, the zone introduced with the Rime. ???? I'm floored by statements like that. I'm sure test population fluctuates like every other sever. During my short 2 weeks the maximun results for a /who all returned 68 players. Is that enough? Thats for soe to answer I guess. Seems very low to me. The general attutide that I seem to get is that test players want to keep the population low. I think its a contradiction to what soe wants.

bks6721

11-06-2009, 10:23 PM

<cite>Khiara@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm not entirely sure why people from live are hammering over and over on the testers about not being able to copy to standard test srvr. You DO realize that it's SOE's decision to NOT allow this ..not the players on test...right? Just checking. That being said...as someone with 2 accounts and multiple lvl 80's both in adventuring and ts I've recently came to test.copy server and am absolutely loving it...tho the population really varies and you do solo alot...which I don't mind. The problem I could see with being allowed to copy 80 toons to test is what's been stated before and that I've SEEN on test.copy. You get the people who...for whatever reason...can't play on their servers for some reason and head on over to test to begin bellowing for duels and generally being rude to people while they pass the time. Leave the test server alone and copy to TEST.COPY if that's what you want..it's all the same ftlog!!/rant off</blockquote>I have yet to see a tester support moving characters to test, they all want everyone to start their characters over. I believe soe has made their decision based on that. I will go to test_copy only if you promise to replace all my house items every time the server is wiped. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> Test_copy is a very poor choice for setting up a home.the /ignore feature works wonders for the people who insist on being annoying.

bks6721

11-06-2009, 10:45 PM

<cite>Jarazi@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>When I came to test it was to test the Arasai and Neriak pack. I left behind a lvl 67 Inquisitor at the time cap was 70. After 2 weeks of just playing on test I decided to never go back to a live server, at the time I had a lvl 20 bruiser on test, I have never looked back. I was sold on the Close Knit community. I use to tell people that came from live to play on test for 2 weeks straight don't play on live and test both. After 2 weeks decide where you like to play the best. Most players from live don't want to be away from their live toons for that long. But the Test server is full of players that have left behind a Mythed Toon so your arguement is falling on deaf ears. Most have lvl 80 toons here on test now. And we are starting to do the raid content, but the hard Part about raiding is that with a server pop that can range from 30-60 during the week and may hit 100 on the weekends it is hard to set up raids when you are needing people from the entire server. And I do run Shard instances in Color if we can get a group and grey if we can't. Like others have stated I also wasn't impressed with the TSO expansion and tend to stay away from there. but we do still run the zones on occasion. I am one of the leaders of one of the biggest guilds on test we have a variety of 80s but at any given time may only have 2 or 3 on. but if we get an update we are all testing the new content that we can test. We test what we can if you would like to bring your whole guild to test and work your way up to test raid content then we would welcome you but to say the reason why you won't come to test is because you can't transfer your toon is a very poor excuse. Like I said almost all of us have left behind toons.I too am curious about what guild you are in on test.Jarazi ThunderfistLVL 80 Bruiser/LVL 80 Alchemist 200AAsLeader of Valiant KnightsLVL 80 guild on the Test server.</blockquote>"work my way up to test raid content" I've already done that. It should not matter WHERE I've done it as long as it wasn't an exchange server. It seems to be a complete waste of time to do it all over again just to get back to where I'm at now and I'm not even "decked out" like someone else inferred. T2 shard gear, myth, 200aa. Thats it. A good setup for testing, if only I could take her there.You say you test all the new content that you can test. Of course thats good. But the question I have is "Could you test more with more level 80's that have a high playtime?" Wouldn't it be fun to find out?You may find my name somewhere within your guild history if you scroll back a few days.

bks6721

11-06-2009, 11:00 PM

<cite>Trellium wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Pauly@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Starting over in a 5yr old game is not an option for me. I have no desire to play a powerleveled character. I take a little pride in my character just as I am sure you do.It seems I am only welcome to test if I start over? Why? I can play on any other server without starting over. Why is starting over MORE important than the fact that I'm willing to commit this character to the test server to HELP people with testing. Sorry I just don't understand the hostility I am getting from TESTERS when I ask if I can bring my character to their server to help THEM.HOW does moving a character to test to play full time hurt the test server? I am waiting for this explanation.</blockquote>I started over, its not that hard. The effort put in writing these posts could have gotten you to level 15.The problem isn't with MOVES to test, its copies. One server gets copies the other gets moves. Nope, no chance of confusion there. And also there is the issue that Test server may or may not have a database in the same state as live. How much dev time should be given to that ongoing issue? Should there be a charge, like when moving to other servers. Free copies to TestCopy, but charged moves to Test is fine with me. The moves and copies are both one way, you never go back.But, don't say you can't test. You can by copying to TestCopy. Don't say you don't like the community here when the community is regularly bobarded with copy requests. "We can MOVE to Test, but not copy?!?!??!?!?!?!" Why the *&*^ not?!?!?!". I put 135 years into my character and my friends, and to Test I have to give up all those friends?!?!?!".</blockquote>you underlined it yourself. You are fine with what I've requested, so what are you disagreeing with? Are you under the impression that MOVES are currently available to test. They are not.as far as giving up friends, the overwhelming majority of them have moved on to other games. That is part of the reason I'm seeking a new home. I "thought" test server would be a good home and that hopefully my characters would be welcome there. You talk about leveling as if the adventure level is the only thing that matters. Maybe I'd like to keep my DT access, my VP access, my titles ect.. Those items aren't trivial to me and they could be usefull to everyone on the test server.

bks6721

11-06-2009, 11:12 PM

<cite>Trellium wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Pauly@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>You've stated the current conditions perfectly. However, is there something inherently wrong with MOVING characters to test server to test this content? Why is it that this cannot be done? If I want to move to test and run shard zones I don't understand why the people currently soloing on test would object.</blockquote>Gee, yeah. Someone wants to do 10 minutes of testing (usually only done when their live server is down) and wants to disrupt ongoing testing populations to do so. Gee, what a great idea. How about if all those copied characters decide they enjoy irritating plays on Test, because Test is not supposed ot have a "community", in spite of SOE's statements otherwise? Not like that has never been done, I have seen it on approximately 10 occassions on EQ1 test server.What precisely is the issue with using TEST COPY to do your highly intense and extremely precise testing? Explain why you need two, or three, or 12 servers for your "testing".How about you copy your character to TEST COPY, and do your "testing" of that 0.0001% of the game you decide on some whim is important to you that minute? You are not being held back, in fact we invite you to do so.But, stop saying that the only way you could possibly do "testing" is by disrupting a system that has existed for years and, population as low as it is, is still many times bigger than the one on Test Copy and much more stable.I simply don't understand why people can't put 2 and 2 together, and figure out that if the rules were the same on Test as they are on Test Copy, the population would also be identical. It's just such an enormous DUH.GO TEST. NOTHING IS STOPPING YOU. You are free to:* Make a new character on Test or Test Copy* Make a copy of an existing character from live to Test Copy* Buff a copy or a new character to 80 on Test Copy.None of these are show stopping issues to prevent you from doing something that so far, you are only willing to provide endless and useless excuses for. Stop telling people who are testing every single day, and helping dev's whenever they ask, to give up their testing environment because you need something you already have in order to start doing the testing you say you are unwilling to do.How much hand holding does it take for you to do the thing you claim is so vital? GO TEST. There is a 5 page list of new bug fixes from yesterday, have at it!What??!?!?! You have a raid and could only test a few minutes? Wow, what a surprise.</blockquote>Congratulations! You've just written the most ignorant and sarcastic posts I've seen. You seem to think I only want to help test raid content. You couldn't be further from the truth. I don't like to raid. But on the other hand soloing 100% of the time is not my thing either.I don't want to play on test_copy for the same exact reason that you don't want to. It is not a stable server. I'm looking for a full time home, not a place to test for 10 minutes a day.As far as server disruption that you are so deeply worried about. Did you know a new level 1 character can do that? It isn't something restricted to level 80's that are willing to come help YOU. What exactly is YOUR issue with me wanting you help YOU with my characters? I have to level it on test before I'm given your blessing to help you?edit to add... Live server downtime really wouldn't have any effect on a character MOVED to test would it?

bks6721

11-06-2009, 11:31 PM

<cite>Finora@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Pauly@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>edited.. I sound terribly negative about this I know. Not trying to.Sorry, I recently joined a guild on test only to learn that many, if not most of the 80's had ever run a dungeon or ever plan to run anything other than low level HQ's.While watching a movie a couple days ago I parked myself near the shard quest giver by the Commonlands zones. The ONLY people I saw where mentored to 50. Seriously if NOBODY is running these zones just HOW is it being tested?How can anyone explain the majority of the level 80's in a level 80 guild never bothering to start their epic weapon quest? I can only say the people I have been in contact with during my time on test is that they are NOT testers. They just like a low population. So, who IS testing?There are things that should get tested other than soloing, crafting and harvesting. I'm sure level 30 hq's have been tested enough by now. Has ANYONE on test completed any of the TSO hq's?</blockquote>-snips-I don't play on test full time but I test any content my characters there are of a level for. There are many others over there that do the same. When there are high level changes I would like to investigate I tend to copy my main from live over and explore as best I can...since a surprisingly few people actually bother to /test copy despite the number of people who like to complain about things not getting properly tested.</blockquote> I think the majority of the copies to test_copy are people who just want to check out some new feature. I really do think that the main test server is where most of the testing is done. I'm sure some people organize a group or raid for testing on that server but I doubt its a daily occurance.Triple the population on test and it would still be a small community. More content could be tested. People like me, who don't want to start over, would be willing to Move (not copy) to test to help play content that is currently hard to test due to the number of players available. It seems like a simple win win situation for everyone but a lot of people are vehemently opposed to allowing it. Apparently the risk of someone actually talking in level chat might disrupt the server somehow.

Trellium

11-06-2009, 11:50 PM

<cite>Pauly@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Trellium wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Pauly@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>You've stated the current conditions perfectly. However, is there something inherently wrong with MOVING characters to test server to test this content? Why is it that this cannot be done? If I want to move to test and run shard zones I don't understand why the people currently soloing on test would object.</blockquote>Gee, yeah. Someone wants to do 10 minutes of testing (usually only done when their live server is down) and wants to disrupt ongoing testing populations to do so. Gee, what a great idea. How about if all those copied characters decide they enjoy irritating plays on Test, because Test is not supposed ot have a "community", in spite of SOE's statements otherwise? Not like that has never been done, I have seen it on approximately 10 occassions on EQ1 test server.What precisely is the issue with using TEST COPY to do your highly intense and extremely precise testing? Explain why you need two, or three, or 12 servers for your "testing".How about you copy your character to TEST COPY, and do your "testing" of that 0.0001% of the game you decide on some whim is important to you that minute? You are not being held back, in fact we invite you to do so.But, stop saying that the only way you could possibly do "testing" is by disrupting a system that has existed for years and, population as low as it is, is still many times bigger than the one on Test Copy and much more stable.I simply don't understand why people can't put 2 and 2 together, and figure out that if the rules were the same on Test as they are on Test Copy, the population would also be identical. It's just such an enormous DUH.GO TEST. NOTHING IS STOPPING YOU. You are free to:* Make a new character on Test or Test Copy* Make a copy of an existing character from live to Test Copy* Buff a copy or a new character to 80 on Test Copy.None of these are show stopping issues to prevent you from doing something that so far, you are only willing to provide endless and useless excuses for. Stop telling people who are testing every single day, and helping dev's whenever they ask, to give up their testing environment because you need something you already have in order to start doing the testing you say you are unwilling to do.How much hand holding does it take for you to do the thing you claim is so vital? GO TEST. There is a 5 page list of new bug fixes from yesterday, have at it!What??!?!?! You have a raid and could only test a few minutes? Wow, what a surprise.</blockquote>Congratulations! You've just written the most ignorant and sarcastic posts I've seen. You see to think I only want to help test raid content. You couldn't be further from the truth. I don't like to raid. But on the other hand soloing 100% of the time is not my thing either.I don't want to play on test_copy for the same exact reason that you don't want to. It is not a stable server. I'm looking for a full time home, not a place to test for 10 minutes a day.As far as server disruption that you are so deeply worried about. Did you know a new level 1 character can do that? It isn't something restricted to level 80's that are willing to come help YOU. What exactly is YOUR issue with me wanting you help YOU with my characters? I have to level it on test before I'm given your blessing to help you?edit to add... Live server downtime really wouldn't have any effect on a character MOVED to test would it?</blockquote>If my post seems ignorant to you, it is because I have difficulty speaking to people who simply are unable to provide me with common sense statements.You simply do not need a high end character to test most content. When upper level testing needs to be done, they can dupe characters for it. I see no value in it at all, since high end characters are duped a dime a dozen at any whim to Test Copy, and devs use those to test specific content. But it fails miserably in testing long term issues.You can test a ton of content with a level 20 character. Part of testing is progression, and getting things and doing writs and harvesting and hunting and doing quests. Why would you do any of those things with a high level character?And, why should YOU specially get a move to a server when everyone else doesn't?You just don't get it. A level 80 character move to Test did not do 80 levels of testing. A level 80 who started as level one and did a ton of quests, as I have done, has more to show for their effort in terms of testing.Yes we all want moves of characters to test. We all want to bring stuff to test. Everyone would move a character over from their live server, filled with all their stuff that is cheap on live and hard to get on Test. After the move, the character will probably be scrapped. Prove to me that won't happen. Now, prove that it won't have a negative impact on the long term testing. Why ever harvest again if you can buy it cheap on live and ship it here? It damages the testing environment, in exactly the same way that you never see people harvesting on TestCopy to get that rare for a spell.From your persective, why not shut down Test and move the population to TestCopy. The problem is that the Test Copy server has a lower population that Test.Test and Test Copy shouldn't have rules that make them more similar; they should be as different as possible in order to get the widest range of testing environments possible. Test server is already fragile; if they had to wipe it out for some reason (something SOE avoids if possible) the population will drop. Its not a guess, it happened on EQ1 Test server and it took years to recover (assuming it ever did).Once you open a door like this, it can't be closed. Its unreasonable to assume ONLY your case should ever get through, and that nobody would ever game the system, and that it won't impact testing. Once the environment is broken, people just would rather play on live without the headaches.You spend far too much time demanding space for you, while ignoring entirely all the issues that come up for everyone else. You take my statements personally, but I pointing out that there is nothing special about you as a person to warrant all these special rules and perks such as a server move. If we let you in with something, in fairness its open to anyone. Once that door is open, we live with the damage. The damage is that Test and Test Copy will look alike except one is populated by moves, and one by copies. There is no proof that the community will continue.The community is what tests. Without it you get a ton of people who test on the day the patch goes live. That doesn't help anyone. Its useless testing. The other testing that can be done is short term testing such as for a raid. The devs dupe people, they test that scenario, and its done.But, long term testing won't happen when people can just instantly be level 80 here by moving a char from live. Having to level up here is what testing is. Its testing the game. Nobody will test levels 1-79. Why bother?You take it as "WHY DONT YOU WANT ME HERE?!?!?!". Thats not the point, we don't want the mechanisms in place that let people here, and then don't test. If you simply did what everyone else does here (a bunch of levels of testing), then all is ok. You are welcome here, but not with the additional requirements that anyone can move here anytime. Its dangerous, since it means less testing will take place.

Finora

11-07-2009, 12:11 AM

<cite>Pauly@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Triple the population on test and it would still be a small community. More content could be tested. People like me, who don't want to start over, would be willing to Move (not copy) to test to help play content that is currently hard to test due to the number of players available. It seems like a simple win win situation for everyone but a lot of people are vehemently opposed to allowing it. Apparently the risk of someone actually talking in level chat might disrupt the server somehow.</blockquote>People are getting riled mostly because your posts seem to imply that the residents of test server just run around soloing low level content and live events, doing no actual testing. I'm sure a lot of people honestly wouldn't care if people could buy tokens to move to test server. It might have to have restrictions, like nothing tradable can be moved or something like that I don't know. I imagine it might have more issues for Devs than they would have the time or desire to deal with.Yes, there are some that are 100% against moves to Test, but there are also people on live servers who don't want people able to buy moves or name changes or race/gender changes or anything else like that. It was said before, that is SOE's policy, not the player policy. And as I said before it would have to be a one way switch because of the xp bonus and what not, like moving to an exchange server locks you there. Maybe one day SOE will change their policy, until then don't insult the messangers. People stated that if you want to be on test, you have to reroll, if you don't want to reroll you have to play on TestCopy. Then testers got their testing insulted. The only thing that's good for is building animosity.As for chat being empty... level chats are. A few people who direct people to the actual test channel and those who don't actually play on Test stay in the level channels but almost all the chat and dev interaction goes on in the actual test channel. I assure you, test chat is not silent.I suggest you feedback directly to SOE, someone who might actually look into such an issue instead of arguing with testers who can't actually control anything about character moves or copies. I wouldn't count on it ever happening but sending feedback about problems you have with the game never hurts anything.In anycase SOE has their reasons. And really, with so many complaining about low populations and wanting server merges I seriously doubt there are many that would buy a token to move to such a sparsely populated server, thus rendering making it work unprofitable for SOE.

Trellium

11-07-2009, 12:22 AM

<cite>Pauly@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>you underlined it yourself. You are fine with what I've requested, so what are you disagreeing with? Are you under the impression that MOVES are currently available to test. They are not.I am, of course, under no such impression. I know they don't allow moves, but moves with a charge I am ok with. I just think its insane to move a char you care about (at a cost) to a server in which they might be damaged. I don't see your request as making sense, since if you copied to Test Copy your original char would be safe on live. Hence, why I question your intense desire to move the char here.as far as giving up friends, the overwhelming majority of them have moved on to other games. That is part of the reason I'm seeking a new home. I "thought" test server would be a good home and that hopefully my characters would be welcome there. You talk about leveling as if the adventure level is the only thing that matters. Maybe I'd like to keep my DT access, my VP access, my titles ect.. Those items aren't trivial to me and they could be usefull to everyone on the test server.Then why not start fresh? You don't see that your character is hobbled for testing? You have done the quests; you have the AA's;you have the gear. Most of those are once in a characters lifetime events. So, how do you test the process of getting them? They don't have much value here. They aren't that useful since raiding isn't something that happens that often. Raiding testing can be done (and is done) via Test Copy server. I can't really speak much for EQ2 Test raiding, but on EQ1 raiding was a challenge because the dev's would patch at the end of their work day; around 6-7pm PST. You know; prime raiding time. We had one string of 3 months of continuous failed raids due to server downage. Raiding becomes a rarity. Titles are things the dev's usually hand out for helping testing. No idea why yours are special to us, but I feel that way about titles in general (a waste of good screen space, lol)Lots of people have high level characters elsewhere, you make it sound like yours are special. They are just more characters, and ones that are no longer able to test many parts of the game simply because the quests were already done. </blockquote>

Trellium

11-07-2009, 12:38 AM

<cite>Pauly@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>People like me, who don't want to start over, would be willing to Move (not copy) to test to help play content that is currently hard to test due to the number of players available.</blockquote>This is a failed assumption. The reason some testing fails (typically raid content) is because the server comes down much more frequently than on live, and usually at the end of the dev day. Or a server crashes. Or a zone won't load. Or the loot tables are fracked up. Or the mobs are set to insane mode by accident. Or the zone is completely empty when you get there. ANother issue is that some named mobs have timers on them before they spawn, and are not up at server boot. But if you get server boots often, it means raid target mobs often aren't even there to kill (sometimes for weeks on end).All of those are things that have happened in my time testing on EQ1 Test in a raiding guild. It takes a lot of effort to get a lot of people together and keep them going through all of the possible issues.The solution is to have targeted raid testing like on Test Copy. Whole raid copied over, dev's there to see how it goes. Few server down times during a raid, since they try to avoid that. Daily life on Test is difficult to work those things in.

Trellium

11-07-2009, 12:59 AM

<cite>Finora@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>As for chat being empty... level chats are. A few people who direct people to the actual test channel and those who don't actually play on Test stay in the level channels but almost all the chat and dev interaction goes on in the actual test channel. I assure you, test chat is not silent.</blockquote>I find the same thing. Since its like a server wide common guild chat, I can barely keep up to it all. Level chat pretty much only exists to tell people to go to Test channel. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" />

Gladiolus

11-07-2009, 05:55 AM

Something which is a trifle misleading is that, whilst it's true that TestCopy can be wiped at any time, in reality the chances of it happening are very slim. I copied over a few of my characters at different levels and use those to have a look at new things as they appear. I also have a few characters created there and buffed to 80, which are useful not only to test new high-level content but to test things for myself, such as trying different Achievement experience arrangements before deciding on what to use on the live server.

HaCkHaCkER

11-12-2009, 04:56 PM

WOW!!!i remember when we had a few people MOVED from test to live and the MAJOR S-Storm that caused. and most that got moved werent level capped or even in great gear.now live want to invade test with none of the same reaction. how quaint

hellfire

11-12-2009, 05:47 PM

<cite>HaCkHaCkER wrote:</cite><blockquote>WOW!!!i remember when we had a few people MOVED from test to live and the MAJOR S-Storm that caused. and most that got moved werent level capped or even in great gear.now live want to invade test with none of the same reaction. how quaint</blockquote>Yeah the cover up to hide that fact as well as the SoE favortism from staff to those players had zero to do with the S-Storm ........oh wait....that was the reason for the S-Storm!

Micheal

11-12-2009, 06:14 PM

<cite>Pauly@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rheassi wrote:</cite><blockquote>Last month hubby and I started over on test.. I was glad we could not copy or transfer over as I really have enjoyed starting from scratch.. I love the community on test and no longer even play my toons on live.. Allowing someone to transfer or buff on test I think would ruin the close knit community we have.. I hope to never see that happen..Rheassi</blockquote>One would hope that the PRIMARY focus of the test server is to TEST. It sounds like the "close knit" community isn't concerned that TESTING is the sole purpose for that server. Little happy family soloing guilds exist on all servers, not just on test.</blockquote>I can't speak for anyone else, but i have spent hours trying to beat an encounter to see if it's functioning properly (even to the point of having a dev chain rezzing the group as fast as we can die, to just beat the encounter.)i've been grouped in a raid basically on AF testing a mechanic while a Dev swings a god stick to make sure everything is triggering properly.The majority of Testers know that they are testing mechanics, testing new content, but the other thing we are testing is, whether you think so, or not, is 'is it fun?' and in order to do that you need a community. in order to have one of the test environments be as close as we can to a live envirnonment it is needed to be as 'stable' as a live environment, hence 'no buff-bot' and due to the low population of the server (unfortunately) while we get an xp bonus (in this stable live emulating environment) having char transfers in, and the gear discrepencies they would bring with them, would also artificially affect the servers dynamics.sorry, i'm rambling now.being quiet.<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Purr

11-12-2009, 08:15 PM

I really wanted to sit this one out because when I see the same poster not only being slightly veiled insulting but also posting one post after another like this would suddenly make true what isn't... I prefer to stay out.But let's face it: Not that long ago tons of avid live players posted how they were pretty much excluded from testing and how they would test like berserkers if only given a chance to copy their high level chars to Test Server. SoE made the smart move to introduce Test Copy, and after the novelty wore off that server became as empty as it now is on most days. The only time people are on is if new content or mechanics are pushed to test and some uber guilds as well as normal live players copy over to see how to best beat the new stuff. Nicely said. The rest of the time alot of people use Moosh to try out which class they will play next, depending how powerful or fun they are at 80. Is that the reason Test Copy exists? Certainly not. And please don't accuse me of bashing the Test Copy people. There are some seriously dedicated and nice people on that server, doing a great job. Just not enough of them.Compared to all the screaming before Test Copy Server, how much more testing is really getting done? Only SoE knows. What I know, and everybody else who pays attention, is: When a QA looks for warm bodies to test something on Test Copy, it doesn't matter how much in advance he posts, there are nearly never enough people up for it and on whenever the event is going to happen. And if it happens you'll find as many Test Server players in that group as players from live servers, or more. Often enough the poor QA has to cancel the thing.And now you want to transfer that same mess to Test Server, again. All it would do is alienate the Testers who get the job done as good as it's possible for them, nothing else, nothing more. You are serious about wanting to test? Make a new character. We all did. It's easy enough and faster than ever. You want to stir the pot (again) to achive what has been proven to not work, please go somewhere else. Your concept doesn't work, Test Copy proves it. Be happy that SoE seems to be willing to keep Test Copy Server up.And please stop insulting the very people you claim you want to belong to. We aren't idiots, just generally somewhat older and far less pushy and demanding than the avarage player. And we like us that way.Thanks for reading and sorry for the long rant. Keep in mind that I'm not a native English speaker, so forgive me my mishaps. And to Pauly: I will not read more consecutive posts of you, Pauly. As was suggested: Please direct your non-satisfaction with the situation to SoE, not at the testers, no matter on which test server.Purr~Edited name reference for clarity.

Kamimura

11-12-2009, 08:32 PM

<cite>Purr wrote:</cite><blockquote> Your concept doesn't work, Test Copy proves it. </blockquote>I don't really want to get into this mess, but I must point this out - The poster is not asking for copies to test, but for permanent server moves. There is a difference, so test copy doesn't prove anything for this. Copying still leaves your character on your main server, a move would remove that character from the "live" world and move it to test. This is what the poster is asking for.

Purr

11-12-2009, 08:45 PM

To be honest, I don't think he/she really wants a move. As others pointed out he/she is very unhappy with how things stand on Test Server. Why would anybody in their right mind require to have their character moved into an environment they don't like? There is no safety net and no going back.Tons of people moved to the Exchange Servers over the years. Tons of people now want to get off the Exchange Servers. Same situation that would be created here.Purr~

Kamimura

11-12-2009, 10:28 PM

<cite>Purr wrote:</cite><blockquote>To be honest, I don't think he/she really wants a move. As others pointed out...</blockquote>Well, that's another thing all together. I just want to make sure folks are actually debating the correct topic, here.. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Trellium

11-13-2009, 04:15 PM

<cite>Sorako@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Purr wrote:</cite><blockquote>To be honest, I don't think he/she really wants a move. As others pointed out...</blockquote>Well, that's another thing all together. I just want to make sure folks are actually debating the correct topic, here.. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>I certainly know the difference between a move and a copy as well. I think the same as Purr on that. It doesn't make sense to say your character is so very special to you that you don't want to make an alt, and at the same time you want a one way move to a test environment.It comes down to the argument that a test server fails when it permits copies, but is successful when it permits moves. I think the difference between character moves and character copies is too small to say that one helps a community grow while the other hasn't done so. If TestCopy had a decent population like Test, that would be terrific! I would play there more frequently if it did. And, if it did have a successful community, why would moves to Test then be needed?I am not at all against having more people on Test. Doubling the population would be a good thing! But artificial growth is the easy solution; there is no proof it works in the long term.Another issue is that while some people might actually move a main character over and actually become part of the community (a good thing), my pessimistic side thinks that most character moves will be of scrap characters with a lot of twinking loot that is cheap on live, or harvestables so they don't need to do "chores" on Test. I would! I make no secret of that, and I think other testers would do the same. How often do we hear "Gee, if only I had x from live!".But, the more that is moved from live the less needs to be earned on Test. Its the process of earning that actually tests the environment and the quests. The entire game gets tweaked and changed and upgraded, and needs people to go play it. Carting goodies from live isn't "testing" that content, even if I often wish I could have all my rares from live moved to Test.

Kamimura

11-13-2009, 10:16 PM

<cite>Trellium wrote:</cite><blockquote>I certainly know the difference between a move and a copy as well.</blockquote>Er.. I didn't say you didn't. That was directed to Purr, whose entire post was based on copies rather than moves. I thought she'd missed or misunderstood that the OP was talking of moves, not copies. There may be some similairites, but the arguments for, or against, either would also contain some differences, so it's worth noting.

Enna

11-14-2009, 01:13 AM

The original EverQuest made a few special-ruleset servers, and initially did not allow anyone to move their other characters there. Those who wished to join the unique servers were compelled to make a brand-new character, and start from the beginning.Many players raised an uproar, wanting to move existing characters instead of starting from the beginning. Eventually, SOE began permitting moves to the server, one-way.Another uproar came when some folk decided they didn't like the special-ruleset server, after all, and wanted to move their character back where they came from.In time, SOE bowed to these demands, and started permitting moves both to and from one of the special-ruleset servers. They required staying 6 months, and only permitted a return to the server from which the character came, in an effort to limit abuse. Sadly, that effort was fruitless.... the plat farmers moved in. They started using that server as a clearing-house to move items to all the other servers by handing their high-demand items off to accomplices, who would then return to their original server and sell the items for RL $$ (or high platinum counts, then sell off the platinum for RL $$).It ruined that server's community -- folk had been helpful and banding together, much like Test server's community. But the influx of greed-oriented professionals, who sneered at SOE and anyone who didn't buy from them, completely drowned out the community-minded folks.It ruined the economy by driving prices above the clouds, even for comparatively minor and low-level items. Anytime someone offered an item for sale at a reasonable price, someone would buy it and jack up the price, and try to re-sell it before they moved off-server.It ruined the access to desireable camped spawn items (because the farmers monopolized them).... eventually, the long-term players nearly all left, and the server was shut down.It had been an exceptional community, before character moves were allowed.I would imagine that SOE learned a harsh lesson from that situation, and that may well be influencing their determined refusal to permit character moves to Test server.While it can be awkward to "start over" ... I found that, over time, growing a second crop of characters wasn't so bad as I'd thought.It has also given me opportunity to test some lower-level changes that I might otherwise have neglected.The OP might not be the sort of person to do the types of things that ruined the EQ-1 server mentioned above. However, if the door is opened to character moves -- you can bet the same sort of mess would happen to Test as happened to the EQ-1 server.Personally, I would prefer to avoid watching that tragedy be duplicated. Even though it means some inconvenience for me and everyone else who plays there, I think the current system is preferable to that alternative.

Trellium

11-17-2009, 12:25 AM

<cite>Enna wrote:</cite><blockquote>The original EverQuest made a few special-ruleset servers, and initially did not allow anyone to move their other characters there. Those who wished to join the unique servers were compelled to make a brand-new character, and start from the beginning.Many players raised an uproar, wanting to move existing characters instead of starting from the beginning. Eventually, SOE began permitting moves to the server, one-way.Another uproar came when some folk decided they didn't like the special-ruleset server, after all, and wanted to move their character back where they came from.In time, SOE bowed to these demands, and started permitting moves both to and from one of the special-ruleset servers. They required staying 6 months, and only permitted a return to the server from which the character came, in an effort to limit abuse. Sadly, that effort was fruitless.... the plat farmers moved in. They started using that server as a clearing-house to move items to all the other servers by handing their high-demand items off to accomplices, who would then return to their original server and sell the items for RL $$ (or high platinum counts, then sell off the platinum for RL $$).It ruined that server's community -- folk had been helpful and banding together, much like Test server's community. But the influx of greed-oriented professionals, who sneered at SOE and anyone who didn't buy from them, completely drowned out the community-minded folks.It ruined the economy by driving prices above the clouds, even for comparatively minor and low-level items. Anytime someone offered an item for sale at a reasonable price, someone would buy it and jack up the price, and try to re-sell it before they moved off-server.It ruined the access to desireable camped spawn items (because the farmers monopolized them).... eventually, the long-term players nearly all left, and the server was shut down.It had been an exceptional community, before character moves were allowed.I would imagine that SOE learned a harsh lesson from that situation, and that may well be influencing their determined refusal to permit character moves to Test server.While it can be awkward to "start over" ... I found that, over time, growing a second crop of characters wasn't so bad as I'd thought.It has also given me opportunity to test some lower-level changes that I might otherwise have neglected.The OP might not be the sort of person to do the types of things that ruined the EQ-1 server mentioned above. However, if the door is opened to character moves -- you can bet the same sort of mess would happen to Test as happened to the EQ-1 server.Personally, I would prefer to avoid watching that tragedy be duplicated. Even though it means some inconvenience for me and everyone else who plays there, I think the current system is preferable to that alternative.</blockquote>Splendid summary of what happened to FV server. My wife and I met on that server but about two months later we moved to Test, just because of exactly these problems. Never did go back.Maybe thats also why both of us are fairly closed to the ideas of moves and copies. Moves and copies between servers that have identical rulesets (differ only by their communities) doesn't seem to have this sort of effect. But when special rules set in there suddenly other reasons to move/copy, and community suddenly isn't the main one.