Crits vs DBL ATK and the value of the +piercing stat

[Psynaut]

<p>I see confilicting info all the time about this.  I once heard there was a ratio of crits/dbl atk we should try to achieve.  I have also heard that the Brigs should always take Crits first.  I would like to know what the truth.  I have several pieces of essentially equivelant gear, that have either crits or dbl atk and I am not sure which to use.   Currently my crits are around 42% and mt DBL ATK is around 20%.</p><p>Also, on a related note.  How important is +piercing?  If I had to choose between +5 piercing and some number of crits or dbl attack, which is better?  For ex., +1 crit would equal approx. how many +piercing points to do the same dmg.?  I know this is hard to pin down quantitatively, but I would like to get estimates, even if they are based on experience and gut feelings.  We get a buff that gives us like +50 to piercing, so is an additional +5 or+10 stii very helpful ( or should I grab the +stealth run speed AA instead)?</p><p>Thanks.</p>

[Dareena]

<p>Well based on part of your post and the Swash avatar picture you've got up, perhaps you've got the wrong forum?  But assuming that you're really refering to a Brigand, then here we go.</p><p>In the height of RoK, the brigand quote was about 60% MC / 40% DA.  However in the world of TSO, both of those values have inflated.  Also via the Brigand Epic (Fabled & Mythical), Ethernauts blue shinny earring, and T1-T3 shard chest pieces, we've got some easy ways to proc up increases to our DA score.</p><p>The Brigand Epic is a Slashing weapon.  As a result, the +Piercing weapon skill ability would really only apply to some off-hand weapons.  In general, I wouldn't ever worry about picking gear with +weapon skill.  A lot of popular scout gear choices increase weapon skill (especially slashing), which usually makes this a non-issue.  Also after investing 5 AA in the Offensive Stance TSO ability, you'll already be getting a decent hit rate.</p>

[Psynaut]

<p><cite>Dareena@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>In the height of RoK, the brigand quote was about 60% MC / 40% DA.  However in the world of TSO, both of those values have inflated. </p></blockquote><p>I suspected as much on the +weapon skill stat, thanks.  I have a 162 AA points, and was debating between the offensive stance AA or the stealth movement speed AA, so I guess I will go with the Offensive stance AA then, if you think it will make a difference in my dps.</p><p>I am a little confused on the part of your post that I quoted.  If you inflate both values, you would have more than 100%.  is a 60% / 40% ratio what I should be targeting, or some other ratio?</p><p>*hopefully I have the appropriate avatar now.</p>

[Dareena]

<p>(Technically the brigand avatar is the one with the coins, but that's just semantics.)</p><p>The only reason that people want a high weapon skill is so that they can have as little of a chance that they'll miss their (key) CA.  Also since your auto attack doesn't have the hit bonus associated with your CA, a high weapon skill is beneficial.  (For if your auto attacks are missing, then your DA modifier doesn't mean much.)  While our Epic, brigand armor, and various scout jewelry pieces will add to our slashing skill, I still believe in maxing out our mastered Offensive Stance.  Even when rez sick, throwing it up still gives you a decent hit rate (all things considered).</p><p>In the world of TSO, it's very feasible to have around 70% MC and 50% DA.  Also if you're wearing the x3 DA proc'ing items that I mentioned above, then your DA could potentially jump into the 70's% if they're all currently up.  Of course it's still possible to have combat values superior to what I'm quoting, but these are a decent base line goal.</p>

[Psynaut]

<p><cite>Dareena@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>(Technically the brigand avatar is the one with the coins, but that's just semantics.)</p><p>The only reason that people want a high weapon skill is so that they can have as little of a chance that they'll miss their (key) CA.  Also since your auto attack doesn't have the hit bonus associated with your CA, a high weapon skill is beneficial.  (For if your auto attacks are missing, then your DA modifier doesn't mean much.)  While our Epic, brigand armor, and various scout jewelry pieces will add to our slashing skill, I still believe in maxing out our mastered Offensive Stance.  Even when rez sick, throwing it up still gives you a decent hit rate (all things considered).</p><p>In the world of TSO, it's very feasible to have around 70% MC and 50% DA.  Also if you're wearing the x3 DA proc'ing items that I mentioned above, then your DA could potentially jump into the 70's% if they're all currently up.  Of course it's still possible to have combat values superior to what I'm quoting, but these are a decent base line goal.</p></blockquote><p>Now I understand.  I thought we were talking ratio of CA to DA, but we were talking about the actual values of each speratate stat.  Ok, so that answers that question, and I much appreciate it.</p><p>I have one more clarification I would like to ask you for.  I always assumed that +weapon skills affecte AA,not CA's.  The first sentence of your post seems to suggest that +weapon skills improve CA's. but later it seems like you are saying it improves AA.  I know this must seem super basic, but could you clarify this for me.  maybe you are saying it affects both....</p>

[Dareena]

<p>As a non-caster class, you're built around your weapon skills.  A weapon skill value is your base chance to hit a mob of your level.  Should the mob be higher or lower than your current level, then it will be harder or easier to hit these targets.  So as an 80th level character, your base weapon skill value is going to hit far more often on a 75^^^ than it would on a 85^^^.</p><p>Your auto attack uses only your base weapon skill value.  This base value is based on your (hopefully) maxed out weapon skill for your current level, your weapon skill bonuses from Offensive Stance, weapon skill bonuses from gear, and various other buffs that you can gain from other classes while grouping with them. </p><p>However your CA work a bit differently.  Each CA uses your base weapon skill value with a bonus % to hit.  This exact bonus can differ between the CA in question, but as a general rule of thumb it seems to be about a +30% bonus to hit.  As a result of this +30% being added to your existing weapon skill value, your CA will always hit more often than your auto attack.</p><p>The goal is to try and cap out your weapon skill.  On my brigand, I'm currently near the skill cap.  As a result, my Dispatched almost never misses.  Whenever I do miss, it always surprises me and is greatly noticeable.  But if my weapon skill wasn't this high enough, then that fluke miss chance (of say 1-2% for example) would be more often.  Also as your weapon skill increases, your auto attacks will hit more often.  At high levels, your auto attack will become a significant portion of your dps.  Therefore it's vital to run around in your Offensive Stance as much as possible when you're dps'ing so your miss chances are minimalized.</p>

[Psynaut]

<p>Excellent.  I understand.  Thank you.</p><p>What is the skill cap at level 80?</p><p>Also, Hypothetically, if you had your choice between say +7 to weapon skill or +2 or +3 to crits, which would you take?</p><p>I will try to make this my last question and let you get back to more important things, though I truly appreciate you taking the time to answer these questions.</p>

[Dareena]

<p>The skill caps are a forumla based on the current max level.  For an 80th character, it's at 540 skill for any category.</p><p>Like I've mentioned previously, don't completely worry yourself about weapon skill.  A maxed out Offensive Stance, your mythical, T2-T3 shard armor, and some various jewelry pieces should more than take care of your weapon skill requirements.  Some common scout jewelry items that jack up weapon skill are the wrist piece out of PR (Treasureseekers Band) and the wrist piece out of TOMC (Captain's Moldering Fleshcord).  There are also a lot of various other ones, but those pieces provide both good mechanics benefits and have a nice chunk of weapon skill added on as gravy.</p><p>If I had to choose between increasing my Melee Crit by +2-3% in exchange for losing 3-5 weapon skill, then it wouldn't even be a question.  Hello dps and goodbye weapon skill.  I'm sure I'll make up for it by accident on some other piece in the near future.</p>

[Psynaut]

<p>Thank you!</p>

[Psynaut]

<p>Actually, last question for certain.  If you have the choice between an additional +2 to crits or +2 to DA, all else equal, which is the better stat to have?  Or are they basically the same dps-wise.</p>

[Dareena]

<p>Well that's a situational question, so I don't really have a blanket answer.  However the rule of thumb seems to be about 1 MC = 2 DA.  So in your proposed situation, increasing your MC by +2 would be better than +2 DA as a default answer.</p><p>But then we get to the more specific questions.  Do you have some DA proc items like the shard chest piece and your mythical?  If so, then you've got an unwritten DA boost already lurking in the background.  Also what are your current MC and DA values?  I mean, 50-60% MC and 30% DA (plus procs) is somewhat acceptable.  If you're at 70% MC and 30% DA, then I'd tell you to lose a point of MC here and there if you're gaining +2-3 DA on each exchange.  It's all kind of situational.</p><p>Get your T2+ shard armor, your Epic fabled/mythical, and some nice jewelry pieces.  Focus on melee crit, but try to snag as much double attack as possible.  These days, it should be rather easy to get +2 MC and +2 DA on the same item.  If you have more specific item questions, look at EQ2 Flames (for their item guides) or PM me.  Or just look at my brigand as an example.  I've still got some pieces of 'junk' gear on her, but overall it's a respectable build for a low to mid end (ex-)raider.</p>

[Psynaut]

<p><cite>Dareena@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>the rule of thumb seems to be about 1 MC = 2 DA. </p></blockquote><p>I did not expect that answer.  I am really glad I asked the question.  Thank you, this has been such a huge help to me.  I finally feel like I understand the combat system in this game.</p><p>It is surprisingly difficult to find this info anywhere via searches in forums or google; not so say it doesn't exist, I just haven't been able to find it anywhere.  Thank you again.</p>

[duuf]

<p><cite>Psynaut wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>What is the skill cap at level 80?</p></blockquote><p>Per Game Update 29 (ROK)</p><p><span ><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><strong><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">Attack Skill</span></strong></p> <p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">- Skill caps have increased from [ 6 * Level ] to [ 6.5 * Level ]</span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"> </p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">80 x 6.5 = 520 max</p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"> </p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">Duufus</p> </span></p>

[Psynaut]

<p>I would like to revive this thread for one more question.  I would love an explanation of how the +dps stat works and how much damage +1 dps adds.  Currently my unbuffed dps is +14.  Our level 35-ish self-buff CA gives us +42 dps for a little over a minute at the expert level, whereas the Master level give +46 dps for a net gain of +4 dps; does +4 dps really do that much more damage?</p><p>So, I am trying to understand how much damage +dps does, how the damage is created and calculated, and how valuable +dps stats are compared to other types of damage like Weapon dmg or CA dmg.</p><p>Thanks.</p>

[Lethe5683]

<p><cite>Psynaut wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I would like to revive this thread for one more question.  I would love an explanation of how the +dps stat works and how much damage +1 dps adds.  Currently my unbuffed dps is +14.  Our level 35-ish self-buff CA gives us +42 dps for a little over a minute at the expert level, whereas the Master level give +46 dps for a net gain of +4 dps; does +4 dps really do that much more damage?</p><p>So, I am trying to understand how much damage +dps does, how the damage is created and calculated, and how valuable +dps stats are compared to other types of damage like Weapon dmg or CA dmg.</p><p>Thanks.</p></blockquote><p>At lower values +1 dps increases your autoattack damage by more than 1%.  At medium values it's bout 1dps = 1% increase.  At higher values 1dps is less than 1%.</p><p>So the less DPS you have the more effective each additional DPS is.  If you are under 100 DPS self-buffed with no temporary buffs on then you should consider trying to get some additonal dps equipment or adornments.  There is a +12 dps adornment for both ranged and neck slots.  It is a T8 fabled adornment so it's quite expensive.  If you want something cheaper try a lower tier version of the same adornment.  T7 will be +10 dps instead of 12 but I think only about half the price or less.</p><p>I'm not a brigand so I can't say for sure so this is a guess... but assuming you have an equal amount of all of these stats this would be the order of priority damage wise.</p><p>DA > MC > DPS > Haste > +CA Damage >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>STR</p>

[Dareena]

<p>First off, please upgrade the +DPS temp buff.  Being only 35th, it takes exactly 7 days to research the M1 and never upgrades.  Pound for pound, it's one of the most cost effective upgrades to take.  Especially since you can start on it at such a early level.  Though even at end game, it's about x3 times faster to research that your average M1.</p><p>If you mouse over the DPS stat, it'll tell you the % amount that it's currently modifying your auto attacks.  Like previously stated, a general rule until you get really high is that +1 pt equals about +1% to your auto attacks.</p><p>Otherwise my advice is about the same now as it was when I previously answered the OP in this thread.  As long as you've got a decent DA score and some +DA proc items (as listed above), focus on MC.  However +DPS is about 3rd on the list, though I wouldn't bend over backwards for it as a Brigand.  Just makes sure to get a legendary +DPS neck adornment and fabled +DPS ranged weapon adornment.  Just between those two adornments at T8, you're looking at +24 DPS.  Once you start to get bits of it from other gear pieces, you'll be in good shape.</p><p>Though as a comparison, I'll take my own brigand as an example.  Being AA capped, mastered out, mythicaled, and wearing a mix of T3/T4 gear, I can pure dps burn down the 81st and below named mobs in Chardok.  Farming them is something that I've come to enjoy since many used to torment me when I first started farming shinies there.  At that gear level and using my soloing poison mix, I don't have to waste time kiting the mobs.  Just stun lock and dps the mob into the ground.  However I can only take this approach (for the most part) if all of my temp buffs are up.  I can noticeably feel the difference when I don't have my attack speed and dps buffs up.  Even my pets make a noticeable difference.</p>

[Psynaut]

<p>Thank you both, this is very helpful.</p>