Ideas for Bringing Life Back to Cities [Archive]

Dasein

10-12-2009, 01:38 PM

As has been mentioned multiple times, the cities, especially Qeynos and Freeport, seem rather devoid of life. While this point is blamed on many things, ultimately, what we need are solutions.1. All expansions should start in the cities. Qeynos and Freeport should serve as the major quest hubs for each expansion, with each city having a major questline establishing that city's interests in the new content. While the rewards may be the same, each city should have it's own objectives, from looking to recover lost artifacts or knowledge to establishing alliances with the factions newly discovered lands.2. Building on the first point, cities should adapt as new content is introduced. Decorations should be updated, NPCs added and dialogue changed and so on to reflect the discovery of new lands.3. The dungeons under Qeynos and Freeport should be expanded to include a set of TSO-style instances.4. Add public druid rings and wizard spires to each city. The bells in each city should also access every other bell-accessible zone. Basically, turn cities into travel hubs like guild halls. Further, reduce the time of the respective City calls to 15 minutes.

Rageincarnate

10-12-2009, 01:43 PM

going afk in qeynos harbor IS a good time.fix the arenas to do something useful. you'll get people in the towns.

Yimway

10-12-2009, 01:50 PM

Insert some event to burn / destroy / crumble the cities.Revamp the zones as t9 adventure zones. Dump everyone in Halas as refuges.yes, afking in QH, or running thru the lagtastic immersive experience of 50 people afk in qh was the highpoint of eq2 immersion...

Kunaak

10-12-2009, 04:20 PM

I honestly do miss the randomness of when there wasnt guild halls, and being in the cities and just meeting random people.guild halls really just seemed to segment players down to small groups. now when I play, I really only see the same 10-20 people ever.revamping cities is a nice idea really.1 simple idea I can think of, is broker fees.everyone with less then 5 year accounts already pays 20% broker fees I think... well, if you buy from a players home town, then you get a 10% off the fee. if you just go to that persons house (like normal) you get zero fees. the 10% for buying in thier hometown, is just for those like me, who occassionally have a hard time finding someones place, or are in a hurry.another idea, would be to really really rework Arenas - in 2 years, I have never ever done a thing in a Arena yet, cause no ones ever wanted to.my idea is to create a arena faction, that sells various items to people they like. so you do so much in arena, you can buy this cool appearance item, or you get grandmaster of the arena they award you with......... and so on. but have the item have to be maintained, meaning, if your not consistently a grandmaster (say with less then a 10% loss ratio) then the item greys itself out so you cant use it anymore.give items that would also be slightly useful for raider, while not being overpowering.like a item that allows 2 repairs of all gear to 100% each day.with the sheer amount of girls within our guild hall that want to run SOL now, I'd say arena appearance items that girls would like too would be a good idea.theres a great deal of potential in the idea of revamping cities, so people actually use them again.but personally, I just miss the social aspect of cities.

Nakaru-Nitepaw

10-13-2009, 06:01 AM

I'd like to expand on the arena idea. Curently it's setup so you play a card character like a aviak or a naga. Why not be allowed to play as your own character? Why not have a capture the flag game setup with power up items that respawn that will boost your health or power or defense? When you go into the arena, you pick a team, and you have to be within 5 levels of the person who opened the arena. otherwise you can only be a observer. EQ2 has 18 classes. Imagine putting them to work in a laser tag type scenario. Also add new zones for the arena. I think they stop at KoS right? Why not a felwithe themed arena? mistmoore? Sebilis? VP? Void? Erudin (when it comes out)? If you do this, EQ2's arenas would put TF2 to shame. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /> Also why not just have a old fashion dueling arena with observers on bleachers like the old roman days? Make these changes, and this old RPer might start to like PvP for once. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> That would have me using the cities.

EasternKing

10-13-2009, 09:27 AM

<cite>Eschia@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'd like to expand on the arena idea. Curently it's setup so you play a card character like a aviak or a naga. Why not be allowed to play as your own character? Why not have a capture the flag game setup with power up items that respawn that will boost your health or power or defense? When you go into the arena, you pick a team, and you have to be within 5 levels of the person who opened the arena. otherwise you can only be a observer. EQ2 has 18 classes. Imagine putting them to work in a laser tag type scenario. Also add new zones for the arena. I think they stop at KoS right? Why not a felwithe themed arena? mistmoore? Sebilis? VP? Void? Erudin (when it comes out)? If you do this, EQ2's arenas would put TF2 to shame. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /> Also why not just have a old fashion dueling arena with observers on bleachers like the old roman days? Make these changes, and this old RPer might start to like PvP for once. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> That would have me using the cities.</blockquote>you can play the arena as your char, you can also play capture the flag and other types of games.

Banditman

10-13-2009, 10:20 AM

Frankly, I'd prefer they sort out the lag problems before they try to cram a bunch of people back into a single zone again.

Kigneer

10-13-2009, 10:31 AM

<cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote>As has been mentioned multiple times, the cities, especially Qeynos and Freeport, seem rather devoid of life. While this point is blamed on many things, ultimately, what we need are solutions.</blockquote>#1 solution: bring the GHs within the cities. Then having some amentity that requires people to use it in the city. This will force players out of the GHs, and give some semblance of city life.There won't be 20000 in the city at a time, but even 20 visible throughout the day/night (and not AFK at that) is MUCH better than what's available. now.

Skywarrior

10-13-2009, 12:23 PM

The easiest way to make cities have a semblance of life is via non-interactive randomly generated city dwellers, the density of which can be controlled by the player via an Option setting ala Assassin's Creed city bustle. These ambience characters would be generated locally so there would be no additional server load or latency induced and each player can set their own threshold of tolerance for crowd size and bustle. You could even have a setting that adjusted the bustle based on the time of day (ie not much more than guards out at midnight, lots of shoppers and workers out at midday).Depending on players to "energize" a city is conceptually silly and always has been. Chat channels are available for worldwide instant communication in almost any prefiltered context the player would like. Expecting random player A to productively interact on any meaningful level with random player B simply because they crossed paths in a city is a marginal expectation, at best. I have more interaction with my guildmates within our guildhall "city" than I ever did while dashing to the various service nodes within the city prior to guildhalls. And I still have access to any player online who isn't in my guildhall, and they with me, if that is needed or desired. To me, the cities were artificial constructs with little attraction from the beginning because there was NEVER any feeling of life. There simply are not enough player characters online to ever really bring that feeling to a town without crashing it, and even what players there were in the "city" where/are divided among a multitude of zones (at least for Qeynos and Freeport). At least within the confines of our guildhalls we can feel like we are actually a part of the represented community and not just taking a stroll through a movie set awaiting the call for "Action".If you aren't part of a guild then nothing has really changed for you except you don't have to experience the lag we used to get when entering QH.

Dasein

10-13-2009, 12:42 PM

<cite>Skywarrior wrote:</cite><blockquote>The easiest way to make cities have a semblance of life is via non-interactive randomly generated city dwellers, the density of which can be controlled by the player via an Option setting ala Assassin's Creed city bustle. These ambience characters would be generated locally so there would be no additional server load or latency induced and each player can set their own threshold of tolerance for crowd size and bustle. You could even have a setting that adjusted the bustle based on the time of day (ie not much more than guards out at midnight, lots of shoppers and workers out at midday).Depending on players to "energize" a city is conceptually silly and always has been. Chat channels are available for worldwide instant communication in almost any prefiltered context the player would like. Expecting random player A to productively interact on any meaningful level with random player B simply because they crossed paths in a city is a marginal expectation, at best. I have more interaction with my guildmates within our guildhall "city" than I ever did while dashing to the various service nodes within the city prior to guildhalls. And I still have access to any player online who isn't in my guildhall, and they with me, if that is needed or desired. To me, the cities were artificial constructs with little attraction from the beginning because there was NEVER any feeling of life. There simply are not enough player characters online to ever really bring that feeling to a town without crashing it, and even what players there were in the "city" where/are divided among a multitude of zones (at least for Qeynos and Freeport). At least within the confines of our guildhalls we can feel like we are actually a part of the represented community and not just taking a stroll through a movie set awaiting the call for "Action".If you aren't part of a guild then nothing has really changed for you except you don't have to experience the lag we used to get when entering QH.</blockquote>The thing is, there's still no reason to actually visit any city zone, which is what I want to see changed. As it stands now, you could get rid of Freeport and Qeynos, and I doubt many would even notice, simply because those zones no longer serve any purpose.

Banditman

10-13-2009, 01:33 PM

If you really want to turn cities into something interesting, turn them into open Realm vs Realm zones.Ooops! Wrong game!In all seriousness, revamping the dungeons under the cities would do nothing more than turn the cities into "pass thru" zones to the content people really want to experience.Putting travel amenties in the cities would not work, people would still use the guild halls, or, if those guild hall amenties were removed, cause no end of (*@#ing about the massive lag in the "travel hub" zones.It's funny how quickly we forget how painful zones like QH were back when that was the only broker available.Now, in all honesty, the real problem with "cities" is that they simply aren't. Cities in EQ2 aren't true cities. They simply don't have all the proper infrastructure. Someday, some MMO is going to get "cities" right.It probably will involve offloading some of the city ecology to the client. I'm ok with that, and I think most developers would be as well.

Neskonlith

10-13-2009, 01:57 PM

<cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote>The thing is, there's still no reason to actually visit any city zone, which is what I want to see changed. As it stands now, you could get rid of Freeport and Qeynos, and I doubt many would even notice, simply because those zones no longer serve any purpose.</blockquote>I agree, it appears that once in a GH there is no reason at all to revisit the cities.What might draw limited interest back to the cities is if Qeynos and Freeport were burned down to the ground in a World Event, and crafters and adventurers were needed to quest to rebuild them - but that would likely only attract a small segment of players back for the duration of the event.Freeport Forever... abandoned?<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" />

Xalmat

10-13-2009, 03:32 PM

I like that the Chronomagi require you return to the city.I know what would get more activity in Freeport and Qeynos: zone consolidation into a single city zone. 11 different city zones + 3 newbie gardens + 3 sewers is a LOT of zones. Not to mention the removal of the tradeskill dungeons.

Dasein

10-13-2009, 04:08 PM

<cite>Neskonlith wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote>The thing is, there's still no reason to actually visit any city zone, which is what I want to see changed. As it stands now, you could get rid of Freeport and Qeynos, and I doubt many would even notice, simply because those zones no longer serve any purpose.</blockquote>I agree, it appears that once in a GH there is no reason at all to revisit the cities.What might draw limited interest back to the cities is if Qeynos and Freeport were burned down to the ground in a World Event, and crafters and adventurers were needed to quest to rebuild them - but that would likely only attract a small segment of players back for the duration of the event.Freeport Forever... abandoned?<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>This has potential. Have the cities invaded and occupied, perhaps by orcs and gnolls respectively, backed by some even more powerful entities. The suburbs would all be solo/duo zones, with various crafting and adventuring quests, the 4 primary city zones would be heroic, and then the palaces would be raid zones.Each zone would be contested, but with pocket instances like specific buildings, each with mini-missions inside. For example, you might click on a door and zone into a house where the occupants are bieng held hostage, or a group of enemy spellcasters are conducting a ritual or any various other events.

Morghus

10-14-2009, 04:49 PM

I personally think the cities are larger than they really should be. It's hard to see all that many people when you can be so far spread apart. Each section of the old cities are somewhat unique but are mostly filled with copy+paste templates of merchants and bankers etc. Updating the cities to the Kelethin/Neriak/Gorowyn style would probably be best if you really want to see other people running around.

bks6721

10-14-2009, 05:26 PM

<cite>Skywarrior wrote:</cite><blockquote>The easiest way to make cities have a semblance of life is via non-interactive randomly generated city dwellers, the density of which can be controlled by the player via an Option setting ala Assassin's Creed city bustle. These ambience characters would be generated locally so there would be no additional server load or latency induced and each player can set their own threshold of tolerance for crowd size and bustle. You could even have a setting that adjusted the bustle based on the time of day (ie not much more than guards out at midnight, lots of shoppers and workers out at midday).Depending on players to "energize" a city is conceptually silly and always has been. Chat channels are available for worldwide instant communication in almost any prefiltered context the player would like. Expecting random player A to productively interact on any meaningful level with random player B simply because they crossed paths in a city is a marginal expectation, at best. I have more interaction with my guildmates within our guildhall "city" than I ever did while dashing to the various service nodes within the city prior to guildhalls. And I still have access to any player online who isn't in my guildhall, and they with me, if that is needed or desired. To me, the cities were artificial constructs with little attraction from the beginning because there was NEVER any feeling of life. There simply are not enough player characters online to ever really bring that feeling to a town without crashing it, and even what players there were in the "city" where/are divided among a multitude of zones (at least for Qeynos and Freeport). At least within the confines of our guildhalls we can feel like we are actually a part of the represented community and not just taking a stroll through a movie set awaiting the call for "Action".If you aren't part of a guild then nothing has really changed for you except you don't have to experience the lag we used to get when entering QH.</blockquote>I convinced two co-workers to give EQ2 a try. They both quit after 1 week because they felt it was an empty world devoid of other players. One of them played for 3 days before he saw another character other than mine. That is not how you draw in new players and retain them.

bks6721

10-14-2009, 05:51 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>Insert some event to burn / destroy / crumble the cities.Revamp the zones as t9 adventure zones. Dump everyone in Halas as refuges.yes, afking in QH, or running thru the lagtastic immersive experience of 50 people afk in qh was the highpoint of eq2 immersion...</blockquote>afking in GH, or running thru the lagtastic immersive experience of 50 guildies afk in gh was the highpoint of eq2 immersion.fixed.it's the same thing, different zone. Can you honestly say that T3 guild halls have less lag than QH did back before guild halls? Every T3 hall I've been in was horribly lagging with about 10fps or less.

Katz

10-14-2009, 07:38 PM

<cite>Kigneer wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote>As has been mentioned multiple times, the cities, especially Qeynos and Freeport, seem rather devoid of life. While this point is blamed on many things, ultimately, what we need are solutions.</blockquote>#1 solution: bring the GHs within the cities. Then having some amentity that requires people to use it in the city. This will force players out of the GHs, and give some semblance of city life.There won't be 20000 in the city at a time, but even 20 visible throughout the day/night (and not AFK at that) is MUCH better than what's available. now.</blockquote>We located in the Gorowyn guild hall because of the KOS of Qeynos and Freeport for opposite aligned toons. Gorowyn outside the guild hall area is pretty active.

Ran

10-15-2009, 03:17 AM

Quest and Reward* update Qeynos, Freeport, Greater Faydark and Darklight Wood to get on a lvl similar to Gorowyn. Also for every city one heritage quest sounds nice which could be similar to deity quests. Every ten-twenty lvl the next step.*give us some area based armor with like qeynos, freeport etc. marks on it..

Spritelady

10-15-2009, 03:56 AM

<cite>Pauly@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>Insert some event to burn / destroy / crumble the cities.Revamp the zones as t9 adventure zones. Dump everyone in Halas as refuges.yes, afking in QH, or running thru the lagtastic immersive experience of 50 people afk in qh was the highpoint of eq2 immersion...</blockquote>afking in GH, or running thru the lagtastic immersive experience of 50 guildies afk in gh was the highpoint of eq2 immersion.fixed.it's the same thing, different zone. Can you honestly say that T3 guild halls have less lag than QH did back before guild halls? Every T3 hall I've been in was horribly lagging with about 10fps or less.</blockquote>Hmm I have 2 old crappy ATI X1650 cards (like 4 years old) and I get 60ish FPS in our T3 GH with near max items. If 20+ people are there it might drop down to like 30.

Vonotar

10-15-2009, 09:09 AM

<cite>Skywarrior wrote:</cite><blockquote>The easiest way to make cities have a semblance of life is via non-interactive randomly generated city dwellers, the density of which can be controlled by the player via an Option setting ala Assassin's Creed city bustle. These ambience characters would be generated locally so there would be no additional server load or latency induced and each player can set their own threshold of tolerance for crowd size and bustle. You could even have a setting that adjusted the bustle based on the time of day (ie not much more than guards out at midnight, lots of shoppers and workers out at midday).Depending on players to "energize" a city is conceptually silly and always has been. Chat channels are available for worldwide instant communication in almost any prefiltered context the player would like. Expecting random player A to productively interact on any meaningful level with random player B simply because they crossed paths in a city is a marginal expectation, at best. I have more interaction with my guildmates within our guildhall "city" than I ever did while dashing to the various service nodes within the city prior to guildhalls. And I still have access to any player online who isn't in my guildhall, and they with me, if that is needed or desired. To me, the cities were artificial constructs with little attraction from the beginning because there was NEVER any feeling of life. There simply are not enough player characters online to ever really bring that feeling to a town without crashing it, and even what players there were in the "city" where/are divided among a multitude of zones (at least for Qeynos and Freeport). At least within the confines of our guildhalls we can feel like we are actually a part of the represented community and not just taking a stroll through a movie set awaiting the call for "Action".If you aren't part of a guild then nothing has really changed for you except you don't have to experience the lag we used to get when entering QH.</blockquote> I like this, at the same time they should merge the central city zones together (they were originally built for such a posibility apparently) so that you don't have to zone between north, south, east and west zones (and therefore zone-wide communication would also be heard by all in the city). Remove the mariners bells from the racial housing zones, so that anybody wishing to visit these zones must either travel via the central city zone or (in the case on people with the wrong alignment) use the sewers.

bks6721

10-15-2009, 09:55 AM

<cite>Spritelady wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Pauly@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>Insert some event to burn / destroy / crumble the cities.Revamp the zones as t9 adventure zones. Dump everyone in Halas as refuges.yes, afking in QH, or running thru the lagtastic immersive experience of 50 people afk in qh was the highpoint of eq2 immersion...</blockquote>afking in GH, or running thru the lagtastic immersive experience of 50 guildies afk in gh was the highpoint of eq2 immersion.fixed.it's the same thing, different zone. Can you honestly say that T3 guild halls have less lag than QH did back before guild halls? Every T3 hall I've been in was horribly lagging with about 10fps or less.</blockquote>Hmm I have 2 old crappy ATI X1650 cards (like 4 years old) and I get 60ish FPS in our T3 GH with near max items. If 20+ people are there it might drop down to like 30.</blockquote>what about 50 people?People always point to the lag in QH as their main reason for never leaving their guild halls. Did you lag in QH like nearly everyone else in the game? That lag has moved into guild halls where everyone stands around afk. I don't see how most players find that to be an improvement over the old QH lagfest.

Terron

10-15-2009, 09:59 AM

If you want to bring life to cites you need to give players a reason to have their characters socialize with NPCs and other PCs in cities. Adventuring does not work beyond a low level because venturing to far away dangerous places in an important part of it. Crafting does not work as it is primarily a solo activity. But role playing might.It might be possible to adapt some of the ideas from the RPG En Guarde. So that player's would have an additional level to work up/ maintain. One the main ways it was done in En Guarde was by carousing at various clubs . Courting mistresses was also important. Those with high social level could get important jobs with various privileges.

Vonotar

10-15-2009, 10:13 AM

<cite>Terron@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote>If you want to bring life to cites you need to give players a reason to have their characters socialize with NPCs and other PCs in cities. Adventuring does not work beyond a low level because venturing to far away dangerous places in an important part of it. Crafting does not work as it is primarily a solo activity. But role playing might.It might be possible to adapt some of the ideas from the RPG En Guarde. So that player's would have an additional level to work up/ maintain. One the main ways it was done in En Guarde was by carousing at various clubs . Courting mistresses was also important. Those with high social level could get important jobs with various privileges.</blockquote> Interesting... but the main way I see this working is divorsing prestige/status from a toons adventure level as some sort of meaningful faction levelling. At the moment the guards will salute high level people, regardless of what they have done (and in the case of some low level guards, they salute regardless of your alignment). What would be interesting, would be a 'City' fame faction (nothing to do with PvP fame) for each city. Completing social based quests or guide events would increase your fame, allowing you access to perks (cheaper prices at vendors and broker) and some facilities within the city (i.e. not item rewards that you can just take away with you). Perhaps this could be tied in with the existing city factions, which quite frankly offer very limited rewards. Perhaps give some NPC's abilities that would make them useful to visit, but not an overbalancing one stop shop, e.g. npc tailors should be able to mend cloth and leather gear for very minimal costs (cheaper than GH mender), priests could offer short term (say 1 hour) buffs against harm, mages could offer short term boosts to damage spells etc Each time you use a facility you use/take a small drop in the social faction (nobody likes people who are forever asking for stuff) although this would never drop below zero.

Deveryn

10-15-2009, 11:27 AM

I agree with the ideas for consolidation. There are a few too many zones in these cities. Neriak is probably the best example of where to go with this. The city has shortcuts and the best transport options, leading to Nek Forest, Thundering Steppes and Sinking Sands.To connect the T3 halls to their cities, how about we get the "Travel within ---- " bells added to the GH amenity list to connect people directly to those cities. Apply the same restrictions. Maybe add the guild hall bells to EFP and Q Harbor.I believe another way to help bring life back would be to cut that recast timer on the home city call to 15 or 20 minutes.It's probably not all that feasible, but being able to use your guild box from a home city (and only the person's home city) might also encourage people to get back to their cities. Then again, that might cause more problems than its worth, but crafting in a hall is what killed city life.

Yimway

10-15-2009, 11:28 AM

<cite>Pauly@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Spritelady wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hmm I have 2 old crappy ATI X1650 cards (like 4 years old) and I get 60ish FPS in our T3 GH with near max items. If 20+ people are there it might drop down to like 30.</blockquote>what about 50 people?People always point to the lag in QH as their main reason for never leaving their guild halls. Did you lag in QH like nearly everyone else in the game? That lag has moved into guild halls where everyone stands around afk. I don't see how most players find that to be an improvement over the old QH lagfest.</blockquote>Actually, no, the lag wasn't the reason I was getting after, its what you read as the significant part.I said running thru QH with a bunch of random AFK people isn't an immersive experience. QH is in fact laggy with 0 people in it, its a rendering issue related to the water in the zone. The entire zones only purpose was to connect you with where you really wanted to go and provide you broker access.GH's are only laggy if you let people decorate them. Setting your limit to 300 objects, and they aren't laggy at all. I meet people in groups and in level chat, I never once in all the years I played the game started up a conversation with someone I saw in a city zone. Well, unless you count those annoying guides that pester you incessantly to 'play' some game.If I want more immersive experiences, I want contested dungeons like SoS being a pivotable part of the next expansion content. Cause here I actually saw, interacted, and had conflicts with players in a way that was somehow meaningful to gameplay.We don't see each other cause of GH's, we don't see other players cause we're all for the most part grinding in whatever instance if we're actively playing.

hellfire

10-15-2009, 03:31 PM

Posted this in another thread some months back but will post it again.Traveling canival that goes from city to city for a 2 week period.Can have special quests tied just with the certain city it is in for that week.Games both interactive with other players and selfGambeling GamesPvp tournysNew recipes for goods only used when the carnival is used in your city ...Green Beer!I know i would go.

TuxDave

10-15-2009, 06:20 PM

1) I think they need to remove the epic guards from the city.2) Allow players to go hail a guard recruiter which will allow them to turn into a lvl 80 ^ guard (similiar to how the AoB 2nd named fight or the single shard quest in lavastorm works) so that we can help defend the city (so all levels can participate).3) Provide some motivation/benefit for successfully raiding the opposing city (AA or EXP bonus for the next hour or something)Could provide some motivation for people to wander around the streets looking for baddies.

Terron

10-16-2009, 10:06 AM

<cite>Banedon@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Terron@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote>If you want to bring life to cites you need to give players a reason to have their characters socialize with NPCs and other PCs in cities. Adventuring does not work beyond a low level because venturing to far away dangerous places in an important part of it. Crafting does not work as it is primarily a solo activity. But role playing might.It might be possible to adapt some of the ideas from the RPG En Guarde. So that player's would have an additional level to work up/ maintain. One the main ways it was done in En Guarde was by carousing at various clubs . Courting mistresses was also important. Those with high social level could get important jobs with various privileges.</blockquote> Interesting... but the main way I see this working is divorsing prestige/status from a toons adventure level as some sort of meaningful faction levelling. At the moment the guards will salute high level people, regardless of what they have done (and in the case of some low level guards, they salute regardless of your alignment). </blockquote>In En Guarde those with high status/position get influence measured as "favours" which can be used to get NPCs to do certain things. For example, to apply to become Minister of War a PCs would have to use a lot of influence to persuade the King to appoint him (and would also need a minimum social level). Other PCs could use influence to oppose the appointment, or get him sacked later. The Minister of War in En Guarde can choose what the army does each summer instead of it being determined randomly. In EQ2 that might translate as the city offereing certain sets of missions and the Minister of War being able to choose which set. if some of those mission were raids then there could be a trong incentive for guilds to gain control of the position. Which would mean working up their social levels by doing things in the cities - going to clubs, hosting parties, etc..

PsiaMeese

10-17-2009, 06:19 AM

"Patents of Nobility" can be purchased from city merchants for coin and status provided your guild is of the required level, and provide a Prefix Title. They cannot be purchased by the non-guilded.<table style="width: 500px; text-align: center;" ><tbody><tr><th colspan="3">Patents of Nobility*</th></tr> <tr><th width="15%">Guild Level</th> <th>Good-Aligned Citizens</th> <th>Evil-Aligned Citizens</th></tr> <tr><th>30</th> <td><a href="http://eq2.zam.com/wiki/eq2_item:Nobility:_Male_Qeynos_Knight">Sir</a> or <a href="http://eq2.zam.com/wiki/eq2_item:Nobility:_Female_Qeynos_Knight">Madam</a></td> <td><a href="http://eq2.zam.com/wiki/eq2_item:Nobility:_Male_Freeport_Knight">Ritsar</a> or <a href="http://eq2.zam.com/wiki/eq2_item:Nobility:_Female_Freeport_Knight">Dame</a></td></tr> <tr><th>40</th> <td><a href="http://eq2.zam.com/wiki/eq2_item:Nobility:_Male_Qeynos_Court_-_Lord">Lord</a> or <a href="http://eq2.zam.com/wiki/eq2_item:Nobility:_Female_Qeynos_Court_-_Lady">Lady</a></td> <td><a href="http://eq2.zam.com/wiki/eq2_item:Nobility:_Male_Freeport_Court_-_Lord">Lord</a> or <a href="http://eq2.zam.com/wiki/eq2_item:Nobility:_Female_Freeport_Court_-_Lady">Lady</a></td></tr> <tr><th>50</th> <td><a href="http://eq2.zam.com/wiki/eq2_item:Nobility:_Male_Qeynos_Court_-_Baron">Baron</a> or <a href="http://eq2.zam.com/wiki/eq2_item:Nobility:_Female_Qeynos_Court_-_Baroness">Baroness</a></td> <td><a href="http://eq2.zam.com/wiki/eq2_item:Nobility:_Male_Freeport_Court_-_Baron">Baron</a> or <a href="http://eq2.zam.com/wiki/eq2_item:Nobility:_Female_Freeport_Court_-_Baroness">Baroness</a></td></tr> <tr><th>60</th> <td><a href="http://eq2.zam.com/wiki/eq2_item:Nobility:_Male_Qeynos_Court_-_Count">Count</a> or <a href="http://eq2.zam.com/wiki/eq2_item:Nobility:_Female_Qeynos_Court_-_Countess">Countess</a></td> <td><a href="http://eq2.zam.com/wiki/eq2_item:Nobility:_Male_Freeport_Court_-_Count">Count</a> or <a href="http://eq2.zam.com/wiki/eq2_item:Nobility:_Female_Freeport_Court_-_Countess">Countess</a></td></tr> <tr><th>65</th> <td><a href="http://eq2.zam.com/wiki/eq2_item:Nobility:_Male_Qeynos_Court_-_Marquis">Marquis</a> or <a href="http://eq2.zam.com/wiki/eq2_item:Nobility:_Female_Qeynos_Court_-_Marquise">Marquise</a></td> <td><a href="http://eq2.zam.com/wiki/eq2_item:Nobility:_Male_Freeport_Court_-_Marquis">Marquis</a> or <a href="http://eq2.zam.com/wiki/eq2_item:Nobility:_Female_Freeport_Court_-_Marquise">Marquise</a></td></tr> <tr><th>70</th> <td><a href="http://eq2.zam.com/wiki/eq2_item:Nobility:_Male_Qeynos_Court_-_Duke">Duke</a> or <a href="http://eq2.zam.com/wiki/eq2_item:Nobility:_Female_Qeynos_Court_-_Duchess">Duchess</a></td> <td><a href="http://eq2.zam.com/wiki/eq2_item:Nobility:_Male_Freeport_Court_-_Duke">Duke</a> or <a href="http://eq2.zam.com/wiki/eq2_item:Nobility:_Female_Freeport_Court_-_Duchess">Duchess</a></td></tr> <tr><th>75</th> <td><a href="http://eq2.zam.com/wiki/eq2_item:Nobility:_Male_Qeynos_Court_-_Arch_Duke">Arch Duke</a> or <a href="http://eq2.zam.com/wiki/eq2_item:Nobility:_Female_Qeynos_Court_-_Arch_Duchess">Arch Duchess</a></td> <td><a href="http://eq2.zam.com/wiki/eq2_item:Nobility:_Male_Freeport_Court_-_Arch_Duke">Arch Duke</a> or <a href="http://eq2.zam.com/wiki/eq2_item:Nobility:_Female_Freeport_Court_-_Arch_Duchess">Arch Duchess</a></td></tr> <tr><th>80</th> <td><a href="http://eq2.zam.com/wiki/eq2_item:Nobility:_Qeynos_Court_-_Savior">Savior</a></td> <td><a href="http://eq2.zam.com/wiki/eq2_item:Nobility:_Freeport_Court_-_Tyrant">Tyrant</a></td></tr></tbody></table>The problem with this system is that these are simply bought titles. With no meaning behind them. Why not detach them from the guilds entirely and make this nobility more functional within the city that issued them? Weave them, literally, into the infrastructure of how the cities function. Gods forbid Lucan and Antonia might have to interact with their own courts (leave the current voice acting as is and create additional text-only dialog for them. Not THAT many people care.).*blatantly copied from Zam.

Legion11

10-18-2009, 02:08 AM

Add brothels IMO.Nothing breathes life back into a city like a few good "houses of ill-repute".

Andu

10-18-2009, 06:27 PM

Make castleview hamlet and big bend contested raid zones with a frequent repop rate.Or make the guards that already exist a lot harder and have them drop worthwhile loot.

Beghard

10-19-2009, 09:57 PM

In all seriousness it would be absolutely trivial to come up with a good concept for returning life to the cities.The first hing you have to consider is that what people really mean when they things like "bringing life back the the cities" is actually something along the lines of "Give us a reason to back to the city. We enjoy playing there and want some incentive to reward us for playing there or to make it worth our time."Most of the ideas in this thread about how to do that are as usual from people on these boards, completely half baked and not very good at all.The devs could certainly come up with an elegant means to return life to the citys. The live events like the holiday stuff is a grate way that it is already being done. I think that a daily quest routine from each section of the city would be a good way to start off.

bks6721

10-20-2009, 05:12 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Pauly@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Spritelady wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hmm I have 2 old crappy ATI X1650 cards (like 4 years old) and I get 60ish FPS in our T3 GH with near max items. If 20+ people are there it might drop down to like 30.</blockquote>what about 50 people?People always point to the lag in QH as their main reason for never leaving their guild halls. Did you lag in QH like nearly everyone else in the game? That lag has moved into guild halls where everyone stands around afk. I don't see how most players find that to be an improvement over the old QH lagfest.</blockquote>Actually, no, the lag wasn't the reason I was getting after, its what you read as the significant part.I said running thru QH with a bunch of random AFK people isn't an immersive experience. QH is in fact laggy with 0 people in it, its a rendering issue related to the water in the zone. The entire zones only purpose was to connect you with where you really wanted to go and provide you broker access.GH's are only laggy if you let people decorate them. Setting your limit to 300 objects, and they aren't laggy at all. I meet people in groups and in level chat, I never once in all the years I played the game started up a conversation with someone I saw in a city zone. Well, unless you count those annoying guides that pester you incessantly to 'play' some game.If I want more immersive experiences, I want contested dungeons like SoS being a pivotable part of the next expansion content. Cause here I actually saw, interacted, and had conflicts with players in a way that was somehow meaningful to gameplay.We don't see each other cause of GH's, we don't see other players cause we're all for the most part grinding in whatever instance if we're actively playing.</blockquote>That is from your persective, a veteran player. I remember back when I started in early 05 and just watching people running in and out of the bank in Nettleville was exciting. I didn't have to "talk" with them for it to be an enjoyable experience. I remember the first time my little conj saw a high level conj for the first time and was in awe of his tank pet. The time I saw my first level capped Guardian I was inspired by his uberness. All of this happened in my hometown during my first few days of playing the game and I think this has a lot to do with why I still play today.That does not happen in hometowns now. THAT is what is missing. It is missing because everything meaningful in the cities can be put INSIDE a guild hall.Even something as simple removing the Banker from guild halls would improve traffic within the cities. Do guild halls really need to have every single city npc within its walls?Since I'm in a newb guild with only 5 amenities I still have to run out of the guild hall to use the bank and broker in NQ. It is refreshing to see people in that zone at least. They are obviously only using those services because they are in the same situation that I am. They don't have the amenities yet.Don't get me wrong though. I'm all for guild hall amenties but lets be a little more creative and not just use every city npc as an amenitie. I ran through Eldar Grove a few days ago and it occured to me that I had not been there since last Christmas. That is strange considering I do writs for those scouts all the time.

soulljah

10-21-2009, 03:28 PM

Quickest way to get people back in cities.........Make Nathan Ironforge a x4 killable raidmob <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> He wouldn't even need a loot table, people would kill him just for the satisfaction. And you can only activate him in gnoll illusion so he can finally see one

Beghard

10-21-2009, 06:20 PM

this<cite>soulljah wrote:</cite><blockquote>Quickest way to get people back in cities.........Make Nathan Ironforge a x4 killable raidmob <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /> He wouldn't even need a loot table, people would kill him just for the satisfaction. And you can only activate him in gnoll illusion so he can finally see one</blockquote>But yeah. The cities are dead. The ppl wanted guild halls for a a long time and finaly got them, this is the result. Be carfule what you wish for?I guess if the game was ment to have had guild halls they would have been there in the begining. After all, its not like the game doesnt have an incredibly complex and butiful system of the two home towns or any thing!I was neve really in favior of the GH personaly and now i wish they had never been created. I can also deeply relate to the story of seeing my first hi lvl toon and it being cool. That aspect of the game has vanished with the noobifications it has made and the fact the entier game is now /easy mode

Verrie77

10-22-2009, 03:20 AM

<cite>Beghard wrote:</cite><blockquote> That aspect of the game has vanished with the noobifications it has made and the fact the entier game is now /easy mode</blockquote>I really agree abuot the /easymode...the last thing that really made me go WHAT !!??!.was that you no longer have to run around getting those L&L-books.....that just felt like a no no no no no....Ive played since spring 2005 and things were alot harder back then...first thing you noticed was trying to get to Commonland via Nektolus....Nek was known to be hard...and it was supposed to be hard....now its just meh :/Sry sliped away from topic there....I miss the city activity aswell..I enjoyed inspecting raidguild-ppl looking at what gear they had...trying to find out where it came from etc.If I was boored..I just went to QH...there was somthing happening there almost all the time. I remember having loads of fun watching two guys throwing that killer-bread on each other..HAHA.....I miss those times.

Katz

10-23-2009, 12:40 AM

I like the idea of cutting the call to city skill down to 15 minutes. Also, having npc's that are only in the cities would help. The chronomancer is a good start. Others need to be city only, not in the guild hall. A specific suggestion is to put the tradeskill writ givers in south freeport. Thats a pretty active area, and the writ givers might even increase the activity.

DeBasilisk

11-01-2009, 10:30 AM

Add extensive Casinos. People love gambling.

Pervis

11-01-2009, 11:39 AM

I can think of a few things that would give people a reason to go to cities, though some of them may not be popular.<ul><li>Only allow Commission crafting and player to player trading in city zones.</li><li>Add a mechanic to the game similar to Vanguards Diplomacy (but do not do it in the style that game has done it). Using this, turn city zones in to quest 'dungeons' for this mechanic, and reward players with things that affect the whole server, but only temporarily (eg. the person with the most faction for a week gets to decide if an instance is solo, small group, full group, x2 raid, x4 raid, solo crafting or group crafting for a week, and the rewards from the instance reflect which is chosen)</li><li>Tidy up both Qeynos and Freeport, merge the central city zones, and consider a live event for these cities to reclaim The Forrect Ruins and The Sunken City, which could concievably be used as top end player housing and as an area for the above suggestion.</li><li>A live event along the lines of the Moonlight Echantments that is in each city for a week, before being off the server for a week, then at another city for a week. Limit access to only characters with citizenship of that particular city. With 6 starting cities as of GU#55, that would mean players have access to this for one week every 12 weeks.</li><li>Use cities as quest hubs for future content. It makes more sense that I would get asked to perform mundane tasks in Kunark from someone in Qeynos or Freeport than it does that I get asked to perform mundane tasks in Kunark by someone standing in a small camp in Kunark, when it is clear they would be able to perform that same task themself. A number of these quests, even at level 90, should be fed-ex type quests.</li><li>Add in mini games to the bars and taverns in cities. Things as simple as poker or blackjack (no gambling required, but optional), possibly even flesh out Kings Field some and implement it (I would picture it as similar to Archon, for those that know).</li><li>Add in several series of "daily"quests to cities. Simple tasks that players do to earn coin or faction, similar to wrists, but with a higher return, and a limit to how many can be obtained. Do these only in Qeynos anf Freeport, and have both adventuring and tradeskill. Getting the quest, completing the task and turning the quest in should all be able to be done within the city and its direct surroundings.</li><li>Provide a bonus to players that log out in cities. While this would just mean players zone to cities to camp, when they log back in and are in the city, they will check the broker there, use the bank there, use the mender there and probably look for groups there. The bonus could be tied to where it is exactly that you camp. Camp in The Coalition of Tradesfolke building or the Ironforge Exchange and get a 15% bonus to tradeskill XP for a set period of time when you next log in. Log out in the Acadamy of Arcane Science or Concordium tower, and get a bonus to AA XP. Log out on the Seafury boat or up Arbos, and get a 10% runspeed bonus when you log back in. Bakery > food duration, bar > drink duration, bank > 10% more coin as body drop, mender > gear costs 50% less to repair, etc.</li><li>Implement quests that involve killing specific city guards, and possibly killing high ranking faction members (who would need to be made attackable).</li></ul>Anything that only has players running through city zones (which would include increasing transport options, or adding instances) wouldn't be a good idea, imo. In order to make cities feel like cities, players need to have something to do inside those zones, not in zones connecting to them.