Druids need a little help. [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

jeffdo

10-01-2009, 01:22 AM

Hi, druids have a serious lack of hp buffs. Would it be possible to modify the last level of the aa Heirophants Protection to give it's 705 hps to everyone in the group? It is still not enough, but in the case of not having wards/reactives every little bit of extra health that can be put on casters or undergeared characters to prevent them from being one shotted is a help.The regens stacking that has been proposed for the new expansion is nice, but I am not sure really how useful it is going to be. As a fully fabled/mythical Warden I can keep a group up in any heroic content. The problem comes when I get placed in a caster group in a raid, I do not have the hp buffs to keep them from getting one shotted and since I do not have reactives my heals go no where. The answer is not more death protects, I have two and Mythical effect. It is still not enough.It has always bothered me that druids who are the most dependant upon spamming heals to deal with incoming damage, have the least hp buffs. Where the other healing classes not only have heals/reactives to protect against huge damage spikes, they also have the largest hp buffs. I am not asking to be in the MT group, I am simply asking to have more tools to keep the non tanking groups up.Thanks.

feldon30

10-01-2009, 09:38 AM

Group cures, HP buffs, and spillover heals for druids are all being addressed in the expansion.

Tehom

10-01-2009, 12:32 PM

Yeah, they decided it's peachy for druids to be broken for a year and a half, but nerfing avatar loot was something that had to happen right now. Go figure.

Meirril

10-07-2009, 06:07 AM

I've been thinking about this for a while. While it would be nice to give the single largest HP buff to druids because they don't get any damage mittigation effects from their healing, simply increasing the amount of HP buffed by druids could possibly make them too valuable in raid situations. Not giving them a huge HP buff means they have less ability to recover their group from a large single hit or worse leaves their group more prone to dying from a large single hit.So how about a huge HP buff with strings attached? Lets just say that the HP buff is equal to the extra HP you'd get from both a cleric and a shaman in the same group, so in tier 8 that's about 2400 hp. Now here is the catch. If it is stacked with buffs from either class it looses some of its effectiveness. -800 for being stacked with a Cleric. -800 for being stacked with a Shaman. You'd still get some additional benifit for having a druid with the other two present, but it is a small benifit. The real benifit is that the priest that most needs the extra HP for their healing style now has it when they don't have another priest type present.

Ferunnia

10-09-2009, 03:35 PM

<cite>Meirril wrote:</cite><blockquote>I've been thinking about this for a while. While it would be nice to give the single largest HP buff to druids because they don't get any damage mittigation effects from their healing, simply increasing the amount of HP buffed by druids could possibly make them too valuable in raid situations. Not giving them a huge HP buff means they have less ability to recover their group from a large single hit or worse leaves their group more prone to dying from a large single hit.So how about a huge HP buff with strings attached? Lets just say that the HP buff is equal to the extra HP you'd get from both a cleric and a shaman in the same group, so in tier 8 that's about 2400 hp. Now here is the catch. If it is stacked with buffs from either class it looses some of its effectiveness. -800 for being stacked with a Cleric. -800 for being stacked with a Shaman. You'd still get some additional benifit for having a druid with the other two present, but it is a small benifit. The real benifit is that the priest that most needs the extra HP for their healing style now has it when they don't have another priest type present.</blockquote>The HP buffage and rollover healing would make us viable as raid healers, but still wouldn't come close to the utility of the other healer archetypes...What you're suggesting is a bit convoluted...and would make us the only classes in the game with a negative to a group buff because someone else joined us...Templars give over 2k group hp btw...at least in T4/myth'd. Group reactives from either cleric are pretty much temporary hp for each person, definitely so with group wards from shamans...We still won't be talking anywhere near the hp buffage of the other classes, just something to keep our groups alive a bit more.

RogueSpideyChick

10-09-2009, 04:32 PM

roll over healing will do NOTHING to help druids. i repeat NOTHING. our heals do NOT need fixed, our BUFFS do. druids NEED because of the nature of how our heals work (healing dmg rather than PREVENTING dmg like wards, reactives) the largest hp buffs in the game. it's the only way to compensate for how our heals work. with a roll over heal, we'd still have to wait for the tick, a lot of the time when u NEED a tick to hit, such as with the massive ae's this xp...it's too late. they need more than hp buffs though to give us utility to make them raid wanted though. roll over heals do NOTHING to heal a 1 shot with somebody in a druid group that has 11k hp that has 13k in a shammy or cleric group when massive physical ae's hit for 10k+. those hits r usually followed by another ae that's sometimes smaller or requires EXTREMELY quick single target cures. THAT is where druids fail the most.everybody talks about the roll over heals like theyre something amazing that will fix the class. they r NOT. our HEALS do NOT need touched...period...our heals r fine. theyre the fastest casting, largest heals in the game. we need MASSIVE hp buffs because of the nature of how our classes work & utility. if we get the roll over heals & meager hp buffs & nothing else...we'll still be useless.

Frametree

10-09-2009, 05:49 PM

<cite>True story. But it's not true that everybody talks as if the rollover heals will fix the class. Most everybody agrees with what you say here; there are a few posts here and there like the one you respond to, though. And I'm only pointing this out on the off-chance that somebody from SOE sees just this and thinks, "Well, apparently the majority believe that rollover heals will fix the problems, so let's go with that!" The majority position isn't that at all.</cite><cite>So, yeah, I agree with you. SOE, if you're listening, don't think rollover heals is the answer. </cite><cite></cite><cite></cite><cite>Aricajade@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>roll over healing will do NOTHING to help druids. i repeat NOTHING. our heals do NOT need fixed, our BUFFS do. druids NEED because of the nature of how our heals work (healing dmg rather than PREVENTING dmg like wards, reactives) the largest hp buffs in the game. it's the only way to compensate for how our heals work. with a roll over heal, we'd still have to wait for the tick, a lot of the time when u NEED a tick to hit, such as with the massive ae's this xp...it's too late. they need more than hp buffs though to give us utility to make them raid wanted though. roll over heals do NOTHING to heal a 1 shot with somebody in a druid group that has 11k hp that has 13k in a shammy or cleric group when massive physical ae's hit for 10k+. those hits r usually followed by another ae that's sometimes smaller or requires EXTREMELY quick single target cures. THAT is where druids fail the most.everybody talks about the roll over heals like theyre something amazing that will fix the class. they r NOT. our HEALS do NOT need touched...period...our heals r fine. theyre the fastest casting, largest heals in the game. we need MASSIVE hp buffs because of the nature of how our classes work & utility. if we get the roll over heals & meager hp buffs & nothing else...we'll still be useless.</blockquote>

Tehom

10-10-2009, 03:41 PM

I thought I read that roll-over healing will even hit other groups in the raid. If that's the case, it might help a -little-, since a druid could be part of an already solid group (with a cleric or shaman, whatever) and help keep other groups topped off. Still weak, but it's not completely useless.I think everyone agrees that druids' primary problem is that they have an enormous weakness in group HP buffs. The thing we shouldn't forget is that there's other weak areas - curing and group utility, which could fail to be addressed even while they hit other things. Even the AA-enhanced Feral (or whatever they changed its name to now) or set-enhanced warden +skill buff aren't in the same league as the sort of thing mystics or inquisitors can give to their groups. Druid curing is a really weak point that people tend to forget - even Templars have an edge because of mana cure.Itemization is a problem too. You guys get by far the weakest set breastplates, which most of us are wearing over our avatar breastplates now. At the very least, they should add a group cure effect to the proc of your set breastplate, or to your 5-set effect. Something. Anything.

Meirril

10-11-2009, 08:56 AM

<cite>Ferunnia wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Meirril wrote:</cite><blockquote>I've been thinking about this for a while. While it would be nice to give the single largest HP buff to druids because they don't get any damage mittigation effects from their healing, simply increasing the amount of HP buffed by druids could possibly make them too valuable in raid situations. Not giving them a huge HP buff means they have less ability to recover their group from a large single hit or worse leaves their group more prone to dying from a large single hit.So how about a huge HP buff with strings attached? Lets just say that the HP buff is equal to the extra HP you'd get from both a cleric and a shaman in the same group, so in tier 8 that's about 2400 hp. Now here is the catch. If it is stacked with buffs from either class it looses some of its effectiveness. -800 for being stacked with a Cleric. -800 for being stacked with a Shaman. You'd still get some additional benifit for having a druid with the other two present, but it is a small benifit. The real benifit is that the priest that most needs the extra HP for their healing style now has it when they don't have another priest type present.</blockquote>The HP buffage and rollover healing would make us viable as raid healers, but still wouldn't come close to the utility of the other healer archetypes...What you're suggesting is a bit convoluted...and would make us the only classes in the game with a negative to a group buff because someone else joined us...Templars give over 2k group hp btw...at least in T4/myth'd. Group reactives from either cleric are pretty much temporary hp for each person, definitely so with group wards from shamans...We still won't be talking anywhere near the hp buffage of the other classes, just something to keep our groups alive a bit more.</blockquote>The reason its convoluted is that you need to address the dev concern about stacking issues. If the druids were given an HP buff that stacked 100% with other priest buffs then they have to figure every MT group will have it available. That means adjusting the entire meta-game for that. I don't think druids need to get an overpowered buff that throws off the entire meta game to make up for what has turned out to be a huge hole in the class. The only other way to address this would be to reduce the other 2 priest's HP buffs for anything your going to give the druids. That would cause no end of whining and wouldn't really resolve the issue unless cleric and shaman hp buffs took a massive nerf and druids became the best hp buffing class in the game.Though, my idea in concept does make druids the best hp buffers in the game. What it doesn't do is cause a stacking issue when you combine them with other priests like you would only do in a raid situation. Nobody throws 3 priests in a group if they can help it except when raiding. Even in raids, you eventually work around to the 2 priest situation.

Tehom

10-11-2009, 12:27 PM

That's kind of the point though - even if hp buffs do stack, people try to get by with as few priests as possible to contribute more to dps. You also may not be considering the direction they're going in with class rebalancing. Remember, they're going to try to make enchanters/bards contribute raidwide. What this means is that the value of tier 1 dps will go up very considerably, and further provide an incentive to run as few healers as possible given the returns you'll see on dps stacking (yay for 6 sorceror raids, etc).I don't really see any reason to provide a further disincentive unless they eventually figure it's warranted based on encounter design.

Aeralik

10-20-2009, 04:04 AM

The hots are just one portion of the overall problem that we are looking into and it is most definitely not the solution. The solution is a mix of things. The new hot just helps to deal with the problem of essentially falling third in line with how damage is dealt with. Hitpoints are already added internally for when the balance pass goes live. Other things are being looked into like group curing of all ailments similar to what the inquisitor epic does now as well as significant cure line adjustments. Other things are being looked into as well such as undesirable abilities and making sure they are useful again.Overall, its mostly pretty straightforward for the priests where we tackle many of the larger concerns. The biggest concern though is making sure each priest is desirable and I believe the changes accomplish that.

RogueSpideyChick

10-20-2009, 04:19 AM

yes! FINALLY an official response! & it's a VERY welcome response. thank u aerilik, now just to make sure that the changes r followed through...

Oakum

10-20-2009, 03:57 PM

Looking forward to seeing the changes, when will they be on test? lol.I really thing that the buffs is a big an issue as curing. Druids are dps orientated priest. I dont mind being out hp buffed by cleric and shaman. They are more defensive then druids. Now why Fury's have a less offensive group buff for castors and wardens melee then cleric and shaman I have never understood. Single targets are fine but not enough. Why wardens can be out damaged by the other two melee priest I dont understand either. Who can swing their weapons longer and harder? Someone wearing 150 pounds of plate, 50 pounds or chain, or 15 pounds of leather? Seems obvious to me. Yes, the druids are squishier then clerics and shaman but that is the way it should be.

MindFury

10-20-2009, 06:43 PM

Frankly I can not wait for the druid changes, so long as they are a benefit, and not a further detriment, to the class. =| As someone who's raided for who knows how long now, on a myth'd and fully mastered, Warden, I'll be [Removed for Content] glad to see some improvements to my main characters class!After the whole chaotic cure mess that is tso, I've finally called an end to raiding with my warden, I lost interest, it became a job, it lost all measure of fun, and now our guilds "best druid" has gone in to retirement, in favor of a class that has some fun again on raids, yes omg shoot me I said fun on raids...Now if only soe would take the un-nerf bat to the necro's I'd have even more fun on raids.Back to Wardens tho...For a class who has a full line and a half of buffs, our buffs really are quite "weak"..compared to other healers...between 2 different buffs we give a whopping 1k hp increase. A smidge of melee for whoever with instinct..tiny bit of damage shield with thorns *that just needs trashed if yall can't increase it to something a bit more realistic* and other such crap (am not listing every [Removed for Content] warden buff)...realistically speaking, for the healer class with the most buffs we sure seem to have the most bs buffs of any class in game. They provide mediocre advantages at best.Cures? lol what a joke, my god [Removed for Content] was soe thinking with the tso constant onslaught of detrimentals we've gotta cure almost instantly?? Someone's idea of a sick joke there? PoAo...first fight for example...my warden in OT grp, does nothing more than single cure every stinkin person in group over and over and over the entire fight (not to mention trying to heal my grp or by golly even heal/cross cure others out of grp) Do you have any freakin idea how [Removed for Content] dull that is? Now keep in mind, you're doing that as you're worriedly scanning for red text announcing ur tush is about to get cursed, making sure ur finger is over that esc. key so as not to cast a thing when that curse lands on you!!! and that's just the first named in there LOL...how about Ykesha's Inner...HA cripes now there's a really sick joke. We're gonna toss a noxious detri on ya, and we're gonna expect it cured instantly. NICE THANX A**HOLES...I'm a warden, I don't get group nox cure..so my lil tush gets to individually cure each and every one of those group members, hoping by god I can get at least 3 cured before that b*tch proc's and they all die, and that's while attempting to keep heals up on the ot who's tanking the add, and the rest of the grp who's getting nailed by the add who's runnin' round whackin whoever he feels like. What a joke. Blah.Compare a warden, heals per cast with any other healer...and it's a laugh. We can't even claim to be the faster of the heal casts as all other healers have been given a boost there. (Defilers and Inquisitors are by far the most OP classes I've encountered in my opinion) We get leather they get chain and plate, (obvious where I'm going with that) we get heals that do a bit up front and some over time, they get massive wards/reactives that block more damage than we druids tend to ever heal in one fight..yall've pretty much rendered us useless for anything other than curing non stop, and the occassional "oops look some damage finally got past the defiler/temp/inquis/mystic guess I get to toss a heal yay me !!" and that's just on raids. Half the groups I see announcing they're looking for heals, are very specific on what they're wanting ..1 healer, plate or chain heals. end of story there. 'Bout the only thing Wardens have goin' for em is the pwr proc regen on the myth, and that's solely dependent on heal crit being way up there proc'in crit heals. Our lil myth ward? complete joke since we can't even use it on ourselves. Which btw, on a pvp server, would be of great use to us!! Especially when in a group as the only healer, and you've got 6 folks focused on killing you as fast as possible.Now mind you, a warden is a very good healer, I've known a few besides myself that can handle solo healing just about everything tossed at us group wise...but just because some of us can handle it, doesn't mean it's not a work out, while other healer classes solo the same thing, same group set up, etc., much easier. I'm not asking that we be made "equal" for I don't really believe classes should be completely equal...just "as desireable" or "as needed/wanted" to those seeking heals. Every class has to have things to offer, otherwise there is no point to having the classes in game. And at the rate of which soe likes to nerf, many classes are getting left out of grp's/raiding, due to this.I think the change with the hot's will be a welcome addition to a class who's been shoved to the back of the healer class. Especially if those hot's work on folks in the raid as a whole, and not just the warden's grp, since we are the primary class that tends to "cross heal". For example, the poor lil lock on our raids who seems to be mr. die alot. Knowing he's going to get hit, I toss one of my single target heals on him..as it is now, it heals him to full and that's it, if the entire use of the "heal" isn't used, oh well..nothing can be done about it, it's wasted. With the change, I can do the same, toss a single target on him, it heals him to full, and what is left over of the "heal", remains on him until he either takes damage again and uses up the remainder of the heal, or until its duration expires (whichever comes first)..that will greatly benefit not only myself in reducing my having to spam heals, but also the raid as that lil lock has a much better chance of living !! This enables me to spend much needed time curing folks who don't get the concept they can use pots to cure some of the stuff themselves, it also enables me to be of more use to the rest of the raid by casting more heals or cures elsewhere. And heaven forbid I even say this...OMG maybe do some dps!!! (hides so she's not shot) Not that wardens do much damage in heal spec, but hey, even some is better than none...and as it is now on raids, I rarely have chance to dps.

Ferunnia

10-22-2009, 12:13 PM

<cite>MindFury wrote:</cite><blockquote>Cures? lol what a joke, my god [Removed for Content] was soe thinking with the tso constant onslaught of detrimentals we've gotta cure almost instantly?? Someone's idea of a sick joke there? PoAo...first fight for example...my warden in OT grp, does nothing more than single cure every stinkin person in group over and over and over the entire fight (not to mention trying to heal my grp or by golly even heal/cross cure others out of grp) Do you have any freakin idea how [Removed for Content] dull that is? Now keep in mind, you're doing that as you're worriedly scanning for red text announcing ur tush is about to get cursed, making sure ur finger is over that esc. key so as not to cast a thing when that curse lands on you!!! and that's just the first named in there LOL...Your group members don't carry their own cure potions? You should only be having to cure the small detrimentals on the first named in palace...when the big ae hits everyone uses a potion...Now mind you, a warden is a very good healer, I've known a few besides myself that can handle solo healing just about everything tossed at us group wise...but just because some of us can handle it, doesn't mean it's not a work out, while other healer classes solo the same thing, same group set up, etc., much easier. Wardens can solo heal every heroic instance, nuff said. So can furies for that matter.</blockquote>

Oakum

10-22-2009, 03:26 PM

<cite>Ferunnia wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>MindFury wrote:</cite><blockquote>Cures? lol what a joke, my god [Removed for Content] was soe thinking with the tso constant onslaught of detrimentals we've gotta cure almost instantly?? Someone's idea of a sick joke there? PoAo...first fight for example...my warden in OT grp, does nothing more than single cure every stinkin person in group over and over and over the entire fight (not to mention trying to heal my grp or by golly even heal/cross cure others out of grp) Do you have any freakin idea how [Removed for Content] dull that is? Now keep in mind, you're doing that as you're worriedly scanning for red text announcing ur tush is about to get cursed, making sure ur finger is over that esc. key so as not to cast a thing when that curse lands on you!!! and that's just the first named in there LOL...Your group members don't carry their own cure potions? You should only be having to cure the small detrimentals on the first named in palace...when the big ae hits everyone uses a potion...Now mind you, a warden is a very good healer, I've known a few besides myself that can handle solo healing just about everything tossed at us group wise...but just because some of us can handle it, doesn't mean it's not a work out, while other healer classes solo the same thing, same group set up, etc., much easier. Wardens can solo heal every heroic instance, nuff said. So can furies for that matter.</blockquote></blockquote>I can, of course I am mostly fabled. But I know that even being fabled. Of course if the tank is experienced and fabled out too and not a monk, that also makes it possible.Now we all know that every up and coming warden and fury have a fabled tank that they solo heal for. They never prefer a shaman or cleric or fabled out healer instead with 4 geared out utility/dps classes for their group. /sarcasm off.

MindFury

10-23-2009, 05:32 AM

I'm aware a GOOD Warden can solo heal most anything they come against grp wise, that doesn't mean all can. To really play a Warden effectively, you've gotta put in the time to learn the toon inside and out...As for Fury's, I've yet to see a Fury good enough to solo heal anything difficult. As I said, Wardens are good healers, they just don't solo heal the same stuff others do, as easily. I cast a heal, when someone's health is at 70%..they're healed to full on the initial burst, and maybe one tick, the rest of the heal is wasted. Causing me to have to spam heals much more than the other healer classes (with the exception of fury)..nothing carried over, nothing sitting waiting for the next round of damage a player is going to take, nada. It's sit and wait to see health drop and quick cast a heal, and hope to god it's not a squishy who's bout to get one shotted. Sure, we can do it, but it's much more difficult. I know plate and chain healers who constantly brag about how easy mode their healer classes are, how they can click a cpl wards/reactives and sit watching tv for a few...must be nice. I know Inquisitors in pvp who can take on whole groups easily wiping them all out. You will not see a Warden accomplish that. Our main tank defiler, lol there's just no comparing. Defiler and Inquisitor are by far the most interestingly op healers, perhaps classes, in game. To sit and watch one of each (defiler/inquis), in a duo pvp grp, take on a group of 4 (ranger, pali, warden, coercer) and not die..is just nuts. We couldn't drop them below 30% power before they were pulling mobs to them and completely regening pwr to full...of course they couldn't kill us..but we couldn't kill them either...the battle literally lasted 30 mins, when both grps decided we'd had enough and gave up and ran in seperate directions to break the darn encounter....I adore my warden, but I'm well aware of the weakness of the class compared to the other healers.

RogueSpideyChick

10-23-2009, 06:59 AM

as somebody who's played a fury for most of their time in this game & has recently switched to a raid-desired templar, it's insane the differences between the 2 healers. im able to easily solo heal all heroic instances in game on my fury, but that's after playing her for so many yrs & gearing her up. i was able to solo heal zones on my [Removed for Content] templar, MUCH sooner than id expected (2 pieces of t2, 2 t3 & 2 t4, along with mostly heroic legendary jewelry & her fabled epic). i even preferred her over my fury in some zones if the tank was squishee (repent does wonders). im not having that much of an issue with healing on her in raids either, except for the occasional 1 shot because of low crit mit.i still prefer my fury over my templar over all because she's the one that ive enjoyed playing for so many yrs. however this xp, after seeing how immensely op templars r compared to the vastly underpowered druids, im honestly preferring playing my templar, especially in raids.ill definitely be at least lvl'in up my fury in the next tier. However, unless things change drastically for druids, ill most likely still be playing my templar. i dont mind playing her because it gives me a raid spot & compared to furies, r easy mode, but would MUCH rather be playing my fury.

Wucked

10-23-2009, 03:10 PM

When are we likely to see these changes implemented?It would be nice to see them before the next expansion, to have the oppertunity to test them out with the current round of content before everyone levels up.

Ferunnia

10-23-2009, 06:05 PM

There's no sign of any changes going live before the next x-pac...And MindFury, you should hang around some good furies one day. You'd probably be surprised.

StaticLex

10-24-2009, 02:26 PM

Cures? lol what a joke, my god [Removed for Content] was soe thinking with the tso constant onslaught of detrimentals we've gotta cure almost instantly?? Someone's idea of a sick joke there? PoAo...first fight for example...my warden in OT grp, does nothing more than single cure every stinkin person in group over and over and over the entire fight (not to mention trying to heal my grp or by golly even heal/cross cure others out of grp) Do you have any freakin idea how [Removed for Content] dull that is? Now keep in mind, you're doing that as you're worriedly scanning for red text announcing ur tush is about to get cursed, making sure ur finger is over that esc. key so as not to cast a thing when that curse lands on you!!! and that's just the first named in there LOL...how about Ykesha's Inner...HA cripes now there's a really sick joke. We're gonna toss a noxious detri on ya, and we're gonna expect it cured instantly. NICE THANX A**HOLES...I'm a warden, I don't get group nox cure..so my lil tush gets to individually cure each and every one of those group members, hoping by god I can get at least 3 cured before that b*tch proc's and they all die, and that's while attempting to keep heals up on the ot who's tanking the add, and the rest of the grp who's getting nailed by the add who's runnin' round whackin whoever he feels like. What a joke. Blah.Wow, really? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /> See, posts like this should make everyone realize that it really are the newbs of the game making the most noise. POTOA is a cake walk. I solo heal my group for the entire zone with relative ease. YIS is simple up to Tyrannus, which after getting paired with any healer that hits arcane/noxious, is also a cake walk. FGU? Hey look, elemental detrimentals, right up my alley (along with MMB and TOMC). In fact, the only encounters that I'm ever paired with another healer are Tyrannus (for non-trauma/elemental group cures) and Gozak (for frequent curse cures, and to a lesser extent non-trauma/elemental group cures). If it was a templar, for example, trying to solo heal a group, they'd get paired with a warden for the exact same reasons.'Bout the only thing Wardens have goin' for em is the pwr proc regen on the myth, and that's solely dependent on heal crit being way up there proc'in crit heals. Our lil myth ward? complete joke since we can't even use it on ourselves.lol?

LardLord

10-24-2009, 06:15 PM

<cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote>The hots are just one portion of the overall problem that we are looking into and it is most definitely not the solution. The solution is a mix of things. The new hot just helps to deal with the problem of essentially falling third in line with how damage is dealt with. </blockquote>Out of curiosity, what has changed over the last couple years that has called for this? Since LU13, I've always considered the specialty heals (Wards vs. Reactives vs. Regens) to be fairly evenly balanced. Of course, content design has placed a premium on damage prevention in T8, but reactives really suffer as much as regens do in that regard, especially since they don't tick on DoTs anymore. I'm not trying to say Clerics are in a similar boat to Druids this expansion (they clearly are in much better shape overall), but I don't see how specialty heals have anything to do with it. Turning attention away from raiding, I could see significant boosts to regens causing balance problems in the grouping game, since Druids aren't very far behind Clerics/Shaman as solo healers in heroic content currently, and the areas they are weak in against that content (HP buffs mostly, curing and control effects to a lesser degree) are the same weaknesses they face against raid content. As you acknowledged, increasing Druids' ability to buff defensively and cure are absolutely critical to making them the peers of Clerics/Shaman in raids. So then, assuming you solve those problems, won't buffing their regens in addition to those changes put them beyond Clerics/Shaman in group content?

Tehom

10-26-2009, 04:30 AM

<cite>StaticLex wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wow, really? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /> See, posts like this should make everyone realize that it really are the newbs of the game making the most noise. POTOA is a cake walk. I solo heal my group for the entire zone with relative ease. YIS is simple up to Tyrannus, which after getting paired with any healer that hits arcane/noxious, is also a cake walk. FGU? Hey look, elemental detrimentals, right up my alley (along with MMB and TOMC). In fact, the only encounters that I'm ever paired with another healer are Tyrannus (for non-trauma/elemental group cures) and Gozak (for frequent curse cures, and to a lesser extent non-trauma/elemental group cures). If it was a templar, for example, trying to solo heal a group, they'd get paired with a warden for the exact same reasons.</blockquote>You could solo-heal a group on anashti, but their dps would be demonstrably worse than with pretty much any other healer. You can't group cure either nether mist or abyssal tempest, and they can only potion cure one of them. Same story for Munzok, etc. At least templars have mana cure.

patrck17

10-27-2009, 01:21 PM

A guild can get by with a well played druid in great gear, but it is definately not as good as having any of the other classes in that spot instead, that of course is the problem they want to fix. Also druids (even furies) are completely capable of solo healing any heroic content, just you'd find that it is easier to do on any other heal class, for the healer themself, and the group.

Wucked

10-28-2009, 06:52 PM

My guild is considering giving my raid slot in the mage group to a templar, they say its probably better than a fury. I work really hard for that slot and everyone says I do a great job and yet they're still considering giving it away.There really is no point playing a druid at the moment is there. I really hope SOE fix this, and soon. Preferably before the next expansion so that I can continue to raid without having to roll pretty much any other healer class in the game.

Aeralik

10-28-2009, 09:16 PM

<cite>Wucked wrote:</cite><blockquote>My guild is considering giving my raid slot in the mage group to a templar, they say its probably better than a fury. I work really hard for that slot and everyone says I do a great job and yet they're still considering giving it away.There really is no point playing a druid at the moment is there. I really hope SOE fix this, and soon. Preferably before the next expansion so that I can continue to raid without having to roll pretty much any other healer class in the game.</blockquote>Unfortunately no but I think the changes will be worth the wait. There are nice changes to Feast, Porcupine, Fae Fire, Primal fury, Instinct, Sandstorm and more <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Bratface

10-28-2009, 09:48 PM

<cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wucked wrote:</cite><blockquote>My guild is considering giving my raid slot in the mage group to a templar, they say its probably better than a fury. I work really hard for that slot and everyone says I do a great job and yet they're still considering giving it away.There really is no point playing a druid at the moment is there. I really hope SOE fix this, and soon. Preferably before the next expansion so that I can continue to raid without having to roll pretty much any other healer class in the game.</blockquote>Unfortunately no but I think the changes will be worth the wait. There are nice changes to Feast, Porcupine, Fae Fire, Primal fury, Instinct, Sandstorm and more <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>Why am I terrified that you are going to "fix" us by making us more like a different class, as with the melee AA's Wardens have and don't use. I play a healer, I want to do that job well, I also have a Bruiser, I'll melee on her tyvm.I have little faith any "fixes" coming the Wardens way after seeing how other classes have been "fixed".

Pervis

10-29-2009, 03:38 AM

<cite>Bratface wrote:</cite><blockquote>as with the melee AA's Wardens have and don't use.</blockquote>Why not use them?Walk up to a mob, turn auto attack on, commence healing your group. Its not like you miss out on anything of value by taking them, and it in no way stops you from healing your group. It takes no time, and it is power free damage, to not do so is to cheat your group.

Vraeth

10-29-2009, 05:36 AM

and in proper gear & aa setup you could even heal your group with meleeing

HBP

10-29-2009, 02:07 PM

<cite>Bratface wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wucked wrote:</cite><blockquote>My guild is considering giving my raid slot in the mage group to a templar, they say its probably better than a fury. I work really hard for that slot and everyone says I do a great job and yet they're still considering giving it away.There really is no point playing a druid at the moment is there. I really hope SOE fix this, and soon. Preferably before the next expansion so that I can continue to raid without having to roll pretty much any other healer class in the game.</blockquote>Unfortunately no but I think the changes will be worth the wait. There are nice changes to Feast, Porcupine, Fae Fire, Primal fury, Instinct, Sandstorm and more <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>Why am I terrified that you are going to "fix" us by making us more like a different class, as with the melee AA's Wardens have and don't use. I play a healer, I want to do that job well, I also have a Bruiser, I'll melee on her tyvm.I have little faith any "fixes" coming the Wardens way after seeing how other classes have been "fixed".</blockquote>Wow. They haven't even said what the actual changes are and you are complaining?? Just be happy us druids are actually getting FIXED. /boggle

Stobo DarkSky

11-04-2009, 06:46 AM

As a Warden prior to TSO I was wanted for just about anything including raids. Now the problem is most of my spells and the Serenicist Debuff do not work against EPIC's. I bring nothing to a raid unless the Raid leader needs to fill a hole in a line up. So, I'm not Mythic'd nor do I have T4. I do have my Fabled weapon and 1 T3 piece of armor.One little addition I'd like to see is our original class defining spell 'Speed of The Wolf' stack with mounts and other speed buffs. It really stinks that I have to spend AA to get back the speed I used to have prior to implementation of the AA's.If you go by DD and ADD 1,2,3 druid's were the Master's of the Woodlands and outshone everyone in that setting BUT had trouble dealing with the undead.

Stobo DarkSky

11-04-2009, 06:55 AM

I think I know the real problem. Druids don't fit the general class mold. Druids are Neutral. Good and Evil each get their equal classes.One way to fix our issues is a combination of the Druid Classes. Why are Warden's and Furies pitted against each other?

RogueSpideyChick

11-04-2009, 02:10 PM

sorcys & bards r also neutral. the idea of eq2 is to split the classes. if u combine them, u ruin that. ive personally played a warden & my own fury & prefer fury. wardens just arent my thing. theyre a bit boring imo. when i was making my fury, i sat down with the descripts of all the healer classes & CHOSE a fury, not a warden. i prefer playing a fury. theyre diff classes. they have several similarities (like all the classes of the same subclass do), but they have enough differences to make them their own distinct class. if theyd ever merge druids...id quit playing my druid completely.

Oakum

11-06-2009, 04:59 PM

<cite>Erynnyes@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>sorcys & bards r also neutral. the idea of eq2 is to split the classes. if u combine them, u ruin that. ive personally played a warden & my own fury & prefer fury. wardens just arent my thing. theyre a bit boring imo. when i was making my fury, i sat down with the descripts of all the healer classes & CHOSE a fury, not a warden. i prefer playing a fury. theyre diff classes. they have several similarities (like all the classes of the same subclass do), but they have enough differences to make them their own distinct class. if theyd ever merge druids...id quit playing my druid completely.</blockquote>I agree, they are different classes and only uniformed wanted to combine them.I "mean't to roll a fury to be more like my EQ1 druid after studing the class description very hard and going back and forth as to which one I wanted to play till I finally picked fury. I actually chose wrong but decided to play warden for a while to see what it was like. This was back at the very beginning of the game when it would have taken about 2 weeks plus to get back to lvl 20 with the harvesting skills and alcemist lvls also kept even. And I mean constant playing too. Not the walk in the park it is today to get to lvl 20. I did like the warden and wardens were wanted just as much as templers for groups.LU 13 came along and the classes were balanced against each other heal wise and each class could heal close to the same amount as others as proved by tables made up at the time. Wardens did have some initial heal balance issues but they were fixed shortly after.On the dps side, it was like this. Fury could slightly out dps a warden (just like a warden could slightly outheal a Fury). then the next highest healer dps'ers were shaman with mystics being able to outdps defilers and then the lowest was the clerics with inquisitors being the higher dps (while templers could heal a little more then inquisitors).At the same time they changed all the buffs too and set the buff inbalance which was never fixed. Cleric and shaman buffs were good. Druids were a different matter.Wardens had no buffs that made them useful once a raid became semi easy to do and extra healing was not required for the MT which is the first player a raid will make sure gets geared up. A hate xfer took their place in the MT group to allow other classes to maximixe their dps and worry less about pulling aggro. Fury's were somewhat better off until the mages were almost completely geared out to max INT toward the end of an expansion, their one permanent group "dps" buff. RoK and TSO also made them like the warden in that they were really only needed at the low end of the expansion before mages got well geared. Buffs for both druids are not "needed" even now really although for a brand new tank raiding, the crit mit buff helps for TSO content from warden but as soon as raids get enough other pieces, its no longer important at all.What has changed? More aoe's doing more damage to players so they need the better buffs/hp/instant heals of a cleric or shaman that a druid cant provide. Both druids are used on an as needed basis noramally by a cleric or shaman not being available rather then they can do the job just as well as a cleric or shaman at keeping the group alive.For dps, fury's can still outparse all other healers. Warden are next to last above defilers who might even be able to outparse us but are usually too busy casting wards on the MT to try.Neutral just means they can start in either city, nothing more and has nothing to do with druid problems. Some of which, as I pointed out, are very long standing ones. Lack of buffs and the ability to in some way negate or counter very large aoes/hits and dps buffs that actually help out the group and not just one person in the group.

DestineeWoodchild

01-02-2010, 08:58 AM

<cite>MindFury wrote:</cite><blockquote>As for Fury's, I've yet to see a Fury good enough to solo heal anything difficult.</blockquote>My main is a Fury, she solo heals just about all TSO insta's only two I haven't solo'ed yet is PoF (Tried once but the peeps I was with kept triping over the blades) and OSH (Just havn't had the chance to try). She solo heals her group in t4 raids, you just need to know how to play/spec a fury, they're not your stand back and click 123 class.I have played my Fury since beta and I have never had an issue healing. We have been in MT groups, off groups, and DPS groups. I have had to just run with what SoE gives us cause we have no choice, however the peeps I group/raid with know I can keep the group going no matter where we go. Added buffs would be nice but, my heals roll!Good Furies are hard to fine that is the truth but don't blame the Fury blame the player!

jeffdo

01-17-2010, 02:07 AM

Prestissimo

02-25-2010, 08:41 AM

Post expansion launch, I think it is fair to say that more specifically wardens still need a little help. The warden's cures are garbage, the hot changes cancelled means we're still lacking in desireability due to our heals landing 3rd, (aka last) in priority which makes us incredibly power ineffective and inefficient not to mention our epic weapon change makes our power management a slightly encroaching concern less we have proper power utility available to us, and our preventative capabilities in terms of one shots is still no better.I see alot of things on the warden that were not improved upon, and some pretty serious nerfs or places that other priests where noticeably buffed that we were neglected on. From what aeralik said, it sounded like we were going to get a bit of love for the few issues the wardens and furies had, but instead we saw furies get love, and wardens get borked in a literal sense.

Aneova

02-25-2010, 03:59 PM

<cite>ReverendPaqo wrote:</cite><blockquote>Post expansion launch, I think it is fair to say that more specifically wardens still need a little help. The warden's cures are garbage, the hot changes cancelled means we're still lacking in desireability due to our heals landing 3rd, (aka last) in priority which makes us incredibly power ineffective and inefficient not to mention our epic weapon change makes our power management a slightly encroaching concern less we have proper power utility available to us, and our preventative capabilities in terms of one shots is still no better.I see alot of things on the warden that were not improved upon, and some pretty serious nerfs or places that other priests where noticeably buffed that we were neglected on. From what aeralik said, it sounded like we were going to get a bit of love for the few issues the wardens and furies had, but instead we saw furies get love, and wardens get borked in a literal sense.</blockquote>Atleast you have a reliable power proc... and that's all i'm gonna say.

StaticLex

02-25-2010, 04:26 PM

The new cure AAs are about as worthless as the previous design. In fact, with the lack of resists on items now I think I'd probably rather have the old design back. I mean ticks of a near worthless heal, 3 seconds apart? Seriously? Did these people suddenly forget our slowest heal casts in less than 3 seconds? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" />

jchan19

02-25-2010, 11:50 PM

Perhaps you forget (i) "Cure" can be casted every second, and (ii) the heal from the cure AA can crit and can be modified by potency, crit bonus, etc. Consider the case that the Group 4 healer is disabled (e.g. frozen), and Group 4 members are hit by double elemental AEs. With cure AA, you will put a small HoT (about 1.2K total in 12 sec) on each G4 member. That is 7.2K healing in 6 sec, or 1.2K HPS.

Prestissimo

02-26-2010, 05:04 AM

<cite>Aneova@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Atleast you have a reliable power proc... and that's all i'm gonna say.</blockquote>The furies did have the shorter end of the stick in TSO, but it's not like the furies dps was a super trivial amount and its not like wardens were anywhere near as capable of dpsing as furies. The warden mythical rightfully should have been nerfed, but not to the level that it was. That is basically all I'm saying. The warden's power was what they brought to the table while furies brought their dps to the table. Otherwise I've rarely seen a reason why a knowledgeable person would invite one druid over another to raids assuming they were being played by equally skilled players and had comperable gear. Power is a big issue in SF, but I'm not basing my opinion on the warden's mythical change on the expansion, I'm comparing it in a stand point of what our power procs meant to the warden as a class. It would be pretty much the same class impact wise as striping the fury of almost all of their dps regardless of if they had power or not.jchan19: perhaps you haven't seen what the other priests get on their cure lines. I'm not saying that the cure line is totally worthless in itself, I'm saying it's completely worthless when you put it up against any other classes cure line (which a LOT of healers especially non-wardens are going to spec into now). You probably also forget that each time we cast a cure to proc that heal, it will overwrite the hot that was on them before and that our heal spec costs us over 20 points to only proc a heal on our origional group cure and single target cure (that excludes purity and our aa granted group cure in the warden SF endline, and shatter infections IF it worked..) and will not even give the heal for all the detrimental types which is not the case for non-wardens. Furies for example get the heal to proc on any detrimental type, and their aa granted cure gains the bonus as well.The whole point was not that the warden is completely broken when looking at only the warden, the point is that the warden is noticeably lacking when looking at it objectively along side the other healer classes which was contradictory to the whole promise of making druids more desireable overall. Furies are more desireable even if it's not by alot, but wardens are much less desired than any other healer class in any scenario now.

Dechau

02-26-2010, 09:20 AM

<cite>Bratface wrote:</cite><blockquote>Why am I terrified that you are going to "fix" us by making us more like a different class, as with the melee AA's Wardens have and don't use. I play a healer, I want to do that job well, I also have a Bruiser, I'll melee on her tyvm.</blockquote>Let me guess, your first character was a Warden and you have still not gotten past lvl 35 on it ??Clearly you have no clue on how to play a warden when you can come with a statement like that, Melee wardens rock, at solo, in grps and in raids (If they can get a spot)My warden is only an alt, but I must say that getting the Melee spec was one of the best things that happened to them, and with the changes in SF and the extra AA's I really can't see any Warden spec that excludes the Melee potion..Next time, get a grib before posting something like that..

jchan19

03-01-2010, 03:38 AM

About the nerf to the Power Proc of the Warden's Mystical, it is not so bad if you wear the gears with the right stat. I would suggest you to make a study about which stat can affect the proc, buff, item and spell that return mana. At Lv 80 you may have trouble with mana, but at Lv 84 you should able to break even on mana consumption. And at Lv 90, you propably can put away the mana-proc gears and rely on the Mystical buff only. ================================================== ============================= Would you please explain why the Enhance Cures of other (non-druid) healers are better ? BTW, if you are talking about the stone skin proc by Enhanced Cure (Templar), it is just different and not necessary better. That stone skin proc has a "short duration". Most likely it is below 30 sec. That make it useless if it is on a caster in G3 or G4, who get hit by AE every 45 sec or so. A logical cure arrangement is to let the templars to cure the tanks, and let the wardens to cure the casters in G3 & G4. ================================================== ============================= About "each time we cast a cure to proc that heal, it will overwrite the HoT that was on them before", it is one of the reasons that I put 5 AA points in the small heal proc, but zero point in the HoT proc. For those who take Shatter Infection (3 min recast), you may feel cheated because the Enhanced Cures are just ... optional. For example, what is the point of adding a small HoT to Group Cure, while Healstorm and Winds of Healing can heal the group to 100% in about 3 sec. A casting or recast reduction for the Group Cure would make more sense. On the other hand, for those who take Force of Nature, 5 AA in Enhance Cure1, 4 AA in Enhance Cure Curse and that is it. The small heal proc is okay. So, don't expect If you need to fuse about such a small matter (Enhance Cure AA), the warden class is probably alright. /JK

Prestissimo

03-01-2010, 06:19 AM

The druid cure line costs a large number of points and returns much less respectively. That is why comparative to the other healer's cure lines it is worthless. It in itself is not worthless, it's just way underwhelming and highly inefficient in terms of points spent and gains recieved especially when compared to what the other priests can bring to the group.The stoneskin a templar gets may not nessecarily be better, but it sure isn't worse. A stone skin over a durration means that the damage can be absorbed at any point durring that range of time AND it prevents the damage from hitting where as the warden's proc can only do something if we don't just fill the missing life with healstorm or winds of healing due to the moderate gap of time between ticks and the tiny size of the heal proc. It means that once again our heal is ticking for 0 points most of the time while preventing nothing but this time it has been taken a step further to even include an underwhelming number on the proc! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /> I'd take damage prevention any day over a hot proc and any healer worth their salt would agree just as any healer worth their salt would know that wardens have a horrible time preventing mages from squishing from large periodic aoes and was the entire reason for druids asking for some type of absorb or method of preventing one shots. If our cure line is really not so bad, the templars would be stoked to trade their cure line for our cure line, right?----The warden's only real uniqueness in TSO was the power proc on their mythical. Other than that, there were a lot of ways the warden was held back in return for getting a ton of potential and for having their mythical power proc. The warden could potentially push rediculous numbers that were beyond insane, but you would probably never get to see that potential even in ideal circumstances since the warden's capacity to perform several important aspects of healing and keeping group members up (such as preventing one shots, survivability utility, and heal priority) were inferior and left that way as a balancing measure for having their mythical power proc. Now that the power proc is toned way down, our healing output, survivability tools and utility should be adjusted proportionately to compensate. These things were adjusted up by a small amount, however I don't think they were adjusted adequately to reflect how big of a nerf was dealt to the most defining part of the warden class.The mythical's power proc was more than 50% of the reason any warden got their mythical, it was the only thing that made the warden unique, and it was reduced dramatically without adding anything to replace the gap it left let alone with consideration that it's removal leaves very little if anything that will give groups a reason to want to bring a warden. The combination of those factors is what is unfair and what I'm mad about.If you think the warden class is just peachy as it is, then give a specific reason that a warden would be wanted over the other 5 healers for an ability or function that the warden provides that another healer simply cannot provide. Each healer class should have at least one thing that you could say that they uniquely bring to a group and that it is a feature of the class that affects the way a battle will play out. Whats the wardens? I want to see a specific reason that a group would say "sorry shammy/cleric/fury, we're taking a warden because they provide this that you can't."

Carthr

03-01-2010, 02:40 PM

So many clueless people.. Everyone whining about their mythical power proc's being "nerf'd".. Do yourself a favor, get your mythical buff.... Problem solved. Since it's a buff, potency, crit bonus, crit chance etc etc effect the proc..

Odys

03-01-2010, 10:40 PM

Ok we got somthing this time, turtle shell is now a good asset and serenity gibes us an anti stun like templar do have. But whaterver be the effort we put in trying to do our best pre=emptive healers are still owning us. People do trust my mystic way more than my warden, my mystic need less reactivity for a better results. I honestly prefer the game play of my warden, but raids leaders always prefer the mystic. It's quite normal she starts any fight with an a.dvance of several thoisands,The gap in HPS must be enlarged and we should get hp bufs.Our dps is not that great, even if trying our best (positionning) a static fury may do more and she will heal almost as well.I wonder why a "lazy" healer spamming his ward and reactive should be more efficient than the reactive healer we are.I wonder why our heal have all half the power of the ones of other healers.Last our Epic/Myth got apparently a massive nerf and my mystic will get an enormous heal with 16 AA in SF, my druid is getting a ridiculous kind of offensive dispel (or a cure ??) .. anyway she is getting a crappy spell

Carthr

03-03-2010, 10:45 AM

If you are waiting until people take damage to heal, that's probably why you aren't cutting it..

Odys

03-04-2010, 09:09 AM

<cite>Carthrax wrote:</cite><blockquote>If you are waiting until people take damage to heal, that's probably why you aren't cutting it..</blockquote>It's funny how smart dudes always shows up, i usually maitain all my HOT running ... It's may be why i know several MT "raiders" (t4 TSO) that enjoy having me.And i quite sure that i play my warden way better than my mystic, and moreover enjoy playing her more.But strangers are reluctant to trust her (often wrongly) and she raids twice less. Mainly because of the idea that Oh my god we need a shaman. And i have to say they are probably right, with damage spikes of 10-15K our HOT are quite inferior to a huge double, triple or quadruple ward.My warden is perfect for single group content, but very average otherwise; note it also come from the general population, we have much more druids in the guild than mail/plate healers.

Carthr

03-08-2010, 05:16 AM

<cite>Odys@Storms wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Carthrax wrote:</cite><blockquote>If you are waiting until people take damage to heal, that's probably why you aren't cutting it..</blockquote>It's funny how smart dudes always shows up</blockquote>Would you rather have the dumb people showing up?

StaticLex

03-08-2010, 04:10 PM

After playing with the warden changes for a couple weeks now they do seem to be pretty nice. I'd still like to see a little bit bigger range on turtle shell and a longer duration/recast for Sandstorm though.

Banditman

03-08-2010, 04:35 PM

<cite>Odys@Storms wrote:</cite><blockquote>But whaterver be the effort we put in trying to do our best pre=emptive healers are still owning us. People do trust my mystic way more than my warden, my mystic need less reactivity for a better results.</blockquote>"Pre-emptive" healers are great . . . for tanking situations. For situations where an entire group is taking damage, a Druid is head and shoulders better. If there are a lot of group cures as well, it gets even more ridiculous.Different healers are better for different things. I have a Fury and a Mystic. I tried to solo heal a raid group on my Mystic last weekend, and I am here to tell you there was just no freaking way. The Group Ward might protect one person, maybe a partial on the second person, but most likely 4 or 5 people in the group are gonna get ate up. Mystics have exactly one spell to replenish HP across an entire group. I was ready for heavy drugs by the end of that raid.On my Fury, I would have had 3 different spells to replenish HP, and two ways to cure my group. It's like night and day.Right now, Shaman are great for strait up tanking situations, but somewhat lacking for group healing. Clerics can do tanking well, and group well, but they don't really excel at either. Druids are great for group healing, but perhaps a little shy in strait up tanking situations.All three types heal heroic content just fine, tyvm, and have strengths and weaknesses in raid roles. To me, this sounds pretty good.

StaticLex

03-08-2010, 05:49 PM

It's just easier for an idiot to make a druid look bad is all. You can have someone do something stupid in a group with a shaman and the group ward might keep anyone from noticing it.

Oakum

03-08-2010, 10:31 PM

<cite>StaticLex wrote:</cite><blockquote>It's just easier for an idiot to make a druid look bad is all. You can have someone do something stupid in a group with a shaman and the group ward might keep anyone from noticing it.</blockquote>Very true, lol.My impression of the expansion is that fury's got some loving.Wardens sank to the bottom. Not that a skilled player cant play one well but that while other healers all got some progression, the warden got a combination of buffs and nerfs to the class and ended up at the same place as before with no overall progression to make the warden better.Really dont like the new sandstorm either. The defense and knockdown were much better then the a 30 second hate/dehate and shield effectiveness when not all players use a shield even. I personnally dont use one unless I am using our AE blocker.

StaticLex

03-08-2010, 11:13 PM

Ehh, my only real beef with Sandstorm now is the duration. I like how it, in theory, should help funnel mobs towards the tank and I don't really miss the root part. As far as damage reducing effectiveness it still seems to be good, I can almost always tell a difference when it's cast or wears off in a 6 man group/instance.

Odys

03-09-2010, 02:03 AM

<cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Odys@Storms wrote:</cite><blockquote>But whaterver be the effort we put in trying to do our best pre=emptive healers are still owning us. People do trust my mystic way more than my warden, my mystic need less reactivity for a better results.</blockquote>"Pre-emptive" healers are great . . . for tanking situations. For situations where an entire group is taking damage, a Druid is head and shoulders better. If there are a lot of group cures as well, it gets even more ridiculous.Different healers are better for different things. I have a Fury and a Mystic. I tried to solo heal a raid group on my Mystic last weekend, and I am here to tell you there was just no freaking way. The Group Ward might protect one person, maybe a partial on the second person, but most likely 4 or 5 people in the group are gonna get ate up. Mystics have exactly one spell to replenish HP across an entire group. I was ready for heavy drugs by the end of that raid.On my Fury, I would have had 3 different spells to replenish HP, and two ways to cure my group. It's like night and day.Right now, Shaman are great for strait up tanking situations, but somewhat lacking for group healing. Clerics can do tanking well, and group well, but they don't really excel at either. Druids are great for group healing, but perhaps a little shy in strait up tanking situations.All three types heal heroic content just fine, tyvm, and have strengths and weaknesses in raid roles. To me, this sounds pretty good.</blockquote>I totally agree here, in TSO i was relucant to solo heal some instances with my mystic unless i had a coercer or a dirge. Without the mythical and spell haste she had big troubles to pump up back some groups.The problem is more to find a spot in raids or to convince sisi-tanks that for most of the content a druid is perfect. I was quite happy some days ago to solo heal VD3 with my " crappy" T2 and my epic.People are also still unaware of the new serenitu, the new turtle and the new druid-oberon, that last spell rocks it uses a lot of mana but we have ton of it and produce a massive fast heal + a noticeable mana regen.

Odys

03-09-2010, 02:06 AM

BTW the devs are still joking a bit about us, tranquility reuse time is equal to its duration, so we can keep it all the time. But we have usuless aa to react it a bit faster.We get an offensive dispell as druid end ability while mystic get a massive emergency heal.

Hene

03-09-2010, 02:43 AM

<cite>Odys@Storms wrote:</cite><blockquote>BTW the devs are still joking a bit about us, tranquility reuse time is equal to its duration, so we can keep it all the time. But we have usuless aa to react it a bit faster.We get an offensive dispell as druid end ability while mystic get a massive emergency heal. </blockquote>Well don't forget Cyclone in the druid tree <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Mystics are just reversed: Shaman tree is heal oriented, Mystic tree is offensiveWardens get: Druid tree is some wierd cure-offensive spell, Warden tree is CycloneHowever, I don't understand the tranquility AA either...

SailorOrion

03-09-2010, 08:10 AM

<cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote>Different healers are better for different things. I have a Fury and a Mystic. I tried to solo heal a raid group on my Mystic last weekend, and I am here to tell you there was just no freaking way. The Group Ward might protect one person, maybe a partial on the second person, but most likely 4 or 5 people in the group are gonna get ate up. Mystics have exactly one spell to replenish HP across an entire group. I was ready for heavy drugs by the end of that raid.On my Fury, I would have had 3 different spells to replenish HP, and two ways to cure my group. It's like night and day.</blockquote>OMG! Someone got the point!Seems to be a general problem in this game that people fail to understand that different situations require different tools and classes...Ardra

snowli

03-09-2010, 11:50 AM

<cite>Oakum wrote:</cite><blockquote>My impression of the expansion is that fury's got some loving.Wardens sank to the bottom. Not that a skilled player cant play one well but that while other healers all got some progression, the warden got a combination of buffs and nerfs to the class and ended up at the same place as before with no overall progression to make the warden better.Really dont like the new sandstorm either. The defense and knockdown were much better then the a 30 second hate/dehate and shield effectiveness when not all players use a shield even. I personnally dont use one unless I am using our AE blocker.</blockquote>Pretty much my opinion, sandstorm was great particularly for PvP, nerfing it to shield effectiveness and hate/dehate isn't helpful when most of the group (including me) are often not wearing shields, the KB is a real loss for heroic content, and the hate doesn't do anything meaningful for survivability in a raid content.The 2% damage reducer for 8aa is laughable, when templars are getting 7.5% damage reduction for all elem/nox/arcane as a permanent buff not something they can only keep running for 6.5seconds out of every 12-15seconds etc etc.I'm also quite disappointed in the imbalance between the priests cure revamps especially the cure=heal aa's, I don't understand how we ended up with 700hp spread out (and overwritten) as a 12 second regen is a joke compared to a 800hp ward, or 1600hp delivered in 2 seconds. I've read some templars complain about having a 1hit stoneskin for someone cured under 30% hp - well I'd definitely swap them for a 250hp heal, with 3 more 150hp ticks over the next 12seconds.I'd be happier if our tunare group cure got cure=heal like the way furies can have it. I don't want the fury cure=heal aa nerfed at all, but for 5aa's they get a hell of a lot more than we get for filling our entire cure tree with 21+ aa's. Templar heal on cures are much better again, Shaman wards on cures are even better and the myth castable of the inquis with potency and critbonus etc now applied should be very nice indeed.