Bruisers, What the hell happened?

[Beogon]

<p>Remember back in the day when your bruiser was actually good. When you could actually tank w/o full fabled gear? When you could actually find a group? When you could outparse people? When guilds would actually used bruisers, sometimes even two. What the hell happened to this class? I know alot of top end guilds still use bruisers, and there are a few that are really awesome, maybe 1 or 2 per server. But sadly the vast majority of players have shelved their bruiser for more desired classes.I know that with over powered gear bruisers are pretty [Removed for Content] decent, but its so hard to find a raid force that will even give you a try.</p><p>I played a Bruiser from launch until RoK when my longtime guild finally folded, and it was literally impossible to find a new guild on my server. So like most everyone else i was forced to play a different class, in my case an illusionist, which by the way are insanely over powered. Sinse ive been playing again ( about 3 months now) ive grouped with a grand total of 2 bruisers (and only 3 monks).</p><p>Why has this class been completely ignored for years now? Why have they chipped away and beaten this once great class into the ground? Just seems like the rich keep getting richer and some classes ahve been completely left for dead.When was the last time a dev commented on known bruiser issues? Because back in the day we could solo blue named? News flash back in RoK my illy was soloing chelish in legendary gear, not to mention that just about every guild is recruiting Illulsionists. Anyways sorry for the crappy rant, any comments are welcome.</p>

[Aull]

<p>Pre-tso and non mythed bruisers never had any type of so called "oh @#$%" defensive ability and bruisers were basically the assassins of the fighters as a spin off for the lack of defense. For me bruisers have been dead last in tanking and utility since launch but again their dps was where the bruiser did shine.</p><p>As a tank survivability is key. With tso bruisers are better survivors than before but where bruisers lack is in aoe aggro and this is what gives bruiser and monks a bad rep. Wisdom line aa's help but again the crane flock reuse timer and outdated proc will not allow any consistancy when hordes of mobs are incoming fast.</p><p>If avoidance worked equally as mitigation currently does then yes mastercrafted brawlers would have better tanking appeal vs higher con'ed mobs.</p><p>As for dps bruisers still have the highest dps potential of the fighters on a single target mob. A solo bruiser doens't offer great dps but when they do get buffed it is far stronger than what other fighters can claim and that is the beauty of being a bruiser.</p><p>The chances of a bruiser being recruited for a guild is very very low. A bruiser that has been part of a guild for the past few years will have better chances of doing anything just for the fact of friends. Outside of friends bruisers will struggle for pugs not because brusiers suck but just the shear nature of how they operate. In tso if a tank cannot hold ae aggro then yeah its gonna be a tough cruise. This again is why guards, monks, and bruisers lack appeal in tso.</p><p>If and when bruisers have abilities to help with aoe aggro then we will see a turn around.</p>

[Redbed]

<p>I honestly dont remember any of what the OP is talking about.  I played from launch up to KOS and came back Post Faydweir.  I Never remember being more then a below average group tank.  Ive just recently gotten myself back to below average group tank.  Mostly I solo, its more my pace....now that I can self mentor Im in solo heaven.  Cant wait for next expansion so I can solo ROK and TSO Instances.  IF its green, Its [Removed for Content].</p>

[Dechau]

<p><cite>Redbed wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I honestly dont remember any of what the OP is talking about.  I played from launch up to KOS and came back Post Faydweir.  I Never remember being more then a below average group tank.  Ive just recently gotten myself back to below average group tank.  Mostly I solo, its more my pace....now that I can self mentor Im in solo heaven.  Cant wait for next expansion so I can solo ROK and TSO Instances.  IF its green, Its [Removed for Content].</p></blockquote><p>Yea we really need to mentor to be able to kill all those solo mobs running around..</p><p>Serious, if you have not already done all solo quests in RoK, you should just do it, no need to wait or anything..</p><p>I've not had my Bruise rthat long, but he already completed more quests than any of my other toons ever did, he just runs through em like nothing was in his way..</p><p>very nice to solo indeed <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Lethe5683]

<p><cite>Dechau wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Redbed wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I honestly dont remember any of what the OP is talking about.  I played from launch up to KOS and came back Post Faydweir.  I Never remember being more then a below average group tank.  Ive just recently gotten myself back to below average group tank.  Mostly I solo, its more my pace....now that I can self mentor Im in solo heaven.  Cant wait for next expansion so I can solo ROK and TSO Instances.  IF its green, Its [Removed for Content].</p></blockquote><p>Yea we really need to mentor to be able to kill all those solo mobs running around..</p><p>Serious, if you have not already done all solo quests in RoK, you should just do it, no need to wait or anything..</p><p>I've not had my Bruise rthat long, but he already completed more quests than any of my other toons ever did, he just runs through em like nothing was in his way..</p><p>very nice to solo indeed <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Nice to solo but that's the only thing bruisers are even remotly useful for relative to any other tank class except monk.</p>

[Dechau]

<p><cite>Lethe5683 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Dechau wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Redbed wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I honestly dont remember any of what the OP is talking about.  I played from launch up to KOS and came back Post Faydweir.  I Never remember being more then a below average group tank.  Ive just recently gotten myself back to below average group tank.  Mostly I solo, its more my pace....now that I can self mentor Im in solo heaven.  Cant wait for next expansion so I can solo ROK and TSO Instances.  IF its green, Its [Removed for Content].</p></blockquote><p>Yea we really need to mentor to be able to kill all those solo mobs running around..</p><p>Serious, if you have not already done all solo quests in RoK, you should just do it, no need to wait or anything..</p><p>I've not had my Bruise rthat long, but he already completed more quests than any of my other toons ever did, he just runs through em like nothing was in his way..</p><p>very nice to solo indeed <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Nice to solo but that's the only thing bruisers are even remotly useful for relative to any other tank class except monk.</p></blockquote><p>I love how your posts are always so positive Lethe <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>However I can't agree with you.. I do not have a Monk myself, but ON PAPER, the Bruiser should be a better Tank than the Monk, and we shuld be able to push some higher parses, at least on the shorter fights..</p><p>I'm defo not saying we are OP, and its not by far we are ahead, wich is also why many prefer the Monk for the raid wide buff..</p><p>I'm sure both can solo very well and I'm also sure that its not just the Bruisers who can fd farm in placves where many other classes can't, Monks have the same chance there, maybe better because they have an extra fd chance (on a longer recast sure, but still)</p>

[Aull]

<p><cite>Lethe5683 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Dechau wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Redbed wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I honestly dont remember any of what the OP is talking about.  I played from launch up to KOS and came back Post Faydweir.  I Never remember being more then a below average group tank.  Ive just recently gotten myself back to below average group tank.  Mostly I solo, its more my pace....now that I can self mentor Im in solo heaven.  Cant wait for next expansion so I can solo ROK and TSO Instances.  IF its green, Its [Removed for Content].</p></blockquote><p>Yea we really need to mentor to be able to kill all those solo mobs running around..</p><p>Serious, if you have not already done all solo quests in RoK, you should just do it, no need to wait or anything..</p><p>I've not had my Bruise rthat long, but he already completed more quests than any of my other toons ever did, he just runs through em like nothing was in his way..</p><p>very nice to solo indeed <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Nice to solo but that's the only thing bruisers are even remotly useful for relative to any other tank class except monk.</p></blockquote><p>Bruisers in all reality are decent tanks except in heavy aoe zones. Issues with bruisers are while they are decent tanks the plate tanks are currently a more desireable since they take spike damage much better on raids anyway. That has been said many times in the forums so we should all know it. </p><p>Between monk and bruiser the monk has always been able to tank and dps equally or better than the bruiser and monk still has better appeal with raid wide and other abilities they have. Bruisers have always lost in the debate of "do we take the bruiser or the monk". As long as the monk and bruiser tank and dps equally then the monk will always overshadow the bruiser. The only way for the bruiser to have appeal is for the bruiser to be stronger in an area that the monk is weaker. Right now that area for the bruiser does not exist.</p><p>That is my take on why many players think bruisers are not useful.</p>

[BChizzle]

<p><cite>Aull wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Bruisers in all reality are decent tanks except in heavy aoe zones. Issues with bruisers are while they are decent tanks the plate tanks are currently a more desireable since they take spike damage much better on raids anyway. That has been said many times in the forums so we should all know it. </p><p>Between monk and bruiser the monk has always been able to tank and dps equally or better than the bruiser and monk still has better appeal with raid wide and other abilities they have. Bruisers have always lost in the debate of "do we take the bruiser or the monk". As long as the monk and bruiser tank and dps equally then the monk will always overshadow the bruiser. The only way for the bruiser to have appeal is for the bruiser to be stronger in an area that the monk is weaker. Right now that area for the bruiser does not exist.</p><p>That is my take on why many players think bruisers are not useful.</p></blockquote><p>I don't know if this is completely true bruisers have damage reduction and stoneskins they are the much better tank when it comes to taking damage, the little bit on extra mit and avoid a monk might get doesn't make them better tanks.  End of the day really the only reason to take a monk over a bruiser comes down to the raidwide, me personally I'd just take the better player.</p>

[Aull]

<p>Bruiser aa retribution of stone is a good ability to have but its proc rating is not that reliable. I think it is like a 25% chance to proc one stoneskin off a successfull repostie. Before the change to the strength aa line when it provided parry bonus the stoneskin proc did in fact trigger far more than what it does today. Since the revamp of the strgth line aa its proc rating at least for my bruiser is horrible even with all the plus's to parry/repostie I have.</p><p>Tso adrenaline rush is a nice ability, but for instance runs most mobs cannot hit hard enough to give it a chance to trigger.</p><p>All in all I enjoy my bruiser and his survival is good. I just hate the horrendous aoe difficulties I face with him. That is the biggest reason I play my zerker more than my bruiser.</p>

[Lethe5683]

<p><cite>Dechau wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Lethe5683 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Dechau wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Redbed wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I honestly dont remember any of what the OP is talking about.  I played from launch up to KOS and came back Post Faydweir.  I Never remember being more then a below average group tank.  Ive just recently gotten myself back to below average group tank.  Mostly I solo, its more my pace....now that I can self mentor Im in solo heaven.  Cant wait for next expansion so I can solo ROK and TSO Instances.  IF its green, Its [Removed for Content].</p></blockquote><p>Yea we really need to mentor to be able to kill all those solo mobs running around..</p><p>Serious, if you have not already done all solo quests in RoK, you should just do it, no need to wait or anything..</p><p>I've not had my Bruise rthat long, but he already completed more quests than any of my other toons ever did, he just runs through em like nothing was in his way..</p><p>very nice to solo indeed <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Nice to solo but that's the only thing bruisers are even remotly useful for relative to any other tank class except monk.</p></blockquote><p>I love how your posts are always so positive Lethe <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p><p>However I can't agree with you.. I do not have a Monk myself, but ON PAPER, the Bruiser should be a better Tank than the Monk, and we shuld be able to push some higher parses, at least on the shorter fights..</p><p>I'm defo not saying we are OP, and its not by far we are ahead, wich is also why many prefer the Monk for the raid wide buff..</p><p>I'm sure both can solo very well and I'm also sure that its not just the Bruisers who can fd farm in placves where many other classes can't, Monks have the same chance there, maybe better because they have an extra fd chance (on a longer recast sure, but still)</p></blockquote><p>I didn't say that monks were better tanks, I said bruisers are by far the worst at tanking compared to any other tank class except monk.  In fact monks are even worse than bruisers are since TSO.</p>

[Owa]

<p><cite>Redbed wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I honestly dont remember any of what the OP is talking about.  I played from launch up to KOS and came back Post Faydweir.  I Never remember being more then a below average group tank.  Ive just recently gotten myself back to below average group tank.  Mostly I solo, its more my pace....now that I can self mentor Im in solo heaven.  Cant wait for next expansion so I can solo ROK and TSO Instances.  IF its green, Its [Removed for Content].</p></blockquote><p><span style="font-size: medium; font-family: times new roman,times;">We were as OP as we ever got in DoF. Remember the guardians getting all [Removed for Content] because we could tank heroic stuff just fine, kill white or even yellow nameds and out-DPS all the other fighters? Pretty much every change/modification to the class since then has been a nerf.</span><span style="font-size: medium;"> <span style="font-family: times new roman,times;">Imho.</span></span></p>

[Pnaxx]

<p>Right before the AA's came out, my bruiser was king. Never was the same after that. But prior, we were the "overpowered" class   <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>