raiding bruiser

[MXGinge]

<p>Hey all, so a little back story.  My main is a dirge and he has pretty decent gear and has been raiding t8 for a while. still no myth just epic but half t2 and the other half t3 shard armor and decent fabled jewlery.  recently my guild recruited a few new players and we are now over flowing with dirges.  and as much as i love raiding on my dirge i find myself wanting to play my alt more and more.  my alt being a 73 bruiser.  Now i play on a PVP server and and was planning on raiding on my dirge and pvping on my bruiser.... but now im thinking i may just up and raid on my bruiser since my dirge isnt needed much anymore.  </p><p>my question is how viable are bruisers in raids?  i know we cant tank a raid and there are much better dps classes but do we even have a spot?  if so what rolls do we fill?  what do bruisers usually parse on raids?  </p><p>any other info on the raiding bruiser or any t8 bruiser info is really appreciated (tips trick? anything?)</p><p>thanks</p>

[Quicksilver74]

<p>We can tank in raid BUT, we typically need top end gear and Myth/180+ AA's to be effective. </p><p>  Typically if you want to raid your bruiser and you are not close to end-game yet, I'd suggest focussing on maximizing your raid buff to get the accuracy and ensure it's master quality, and use the research assistant to get Shake off Master 1, and try to make good use of your avoid buff, blocking for the main tank. </p><p>  Also we can parse ok but that usually requires good gear.  I went from parsing 1-2K with garbage gear to parsing 10K with good gear.   Gear makes almost all the difference. </p>

[Gilasil]

<p>I saw a poll recently which put bruiser dead last in raid desireability.  That's why people like me are upset with SoE.  Well the biggest reason anyway. </p><p>However, I do raid with my bruiser.  I'm almost always in a DPS slot.  You really want to have at least an option for the best DPS you can squeeze out.  The raid is far more likely to take you on as another DPSer then they are a tank unless it's something where they HAVE to have a brawler such as sisters.  I duitifully have my raid buff mastered with 5 AAs in it but I have NEVER gotten any indication anyone except other bruisers care. </p><p>Bruisers are handy for various odd jobs in raids.  Clicking statues, etc.  I think they're pretty good in Levi raids as bouncers (the ones who go in first to clear out the mobs so the bombers (usually mages) can come in and blow him up).  KIll the first mob with devestation first, the second with a knockout combo attack, and then see if you can get a third.  All in the 10-20 seconds before you're spit out (oftentimes the thing which limits me is having to waste time closing with the mob).  When I do that I  gear up for DPS except I also try to get one of my resists up (can never remember which one -- always have to look it up).</p><p>In several of the VP mobs it seems that bruiser (well brawlers) are handy for things which require them to work away from a healer -- usually clicking stuff or collecting shinies.  Bruisers especially have an advantage because their self heal heals so much and recycles fairly rapidly plus they can take more damage then your typical healer (besides, the healers are usually needed elsewhere).</p><p>I've tanked a few raid mobs -- oftentimes after the MT went down but not always.  I've never deliberately tanked current expansion epic*4 bosses and don't plan to start this expansion.  Our raid leader would never consider it anyway.  I don't have top end gear though.  (primarily T3, 200 AA, myth).  Maybe if you truely have top end gear maybe, but you won't be doing the tanking to get that top end gear.</p>

[Maamadex]

<p>State of the game about brawlers and summoners really, due to needing so many support classes those 4 have been turned into lepers. Not that a good one isn't desirable. But its just the state of things. I know when I have to ask someone to sit for something we need, its a brawler or a summoner usually. They are changing a few things about bards and enchanters to allow a more flexible raid setup apparently, so all this may change.</p>

[Dechau]

<p>Agree with some of it..</p><p>To raid tank on a Bruiser it does not take high end/avatar gear, but for sure 180+ AA wil make it a lot easier..</p><p>I have 2 T4 items, 2 T3 items and rest a mix of TSO/RoK fabled, and jewelery the same.. I can tank just fine in raids, all it takes is a little more readyness from your healers, and we also need a better grp setup for it to happen with succes..</p><p>Aggro is not an issue imo, sure our target locks could work, and our ae autoattacks could match the other fighters, but that is defo not the issue, strikethrough is, if a mob ST you and get lucky with a few hits after we go down 85 % of the time, wherer the Warriors and Crusaders are better at absorbing the hits..</p><p>That said, I would not swap my Bruiser for any other fighter <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[MXGinge]

<p>Thanks for all your replies thus far!</p><p>I do enjoy tanking but donno if id ever want to raid tank as a brawler...  its nice to know its possible though.  How does end game DPS factor in though i understand ill be no assassin but im used to playing a dirge.... will i be parsing the same? a bit higher/lower?  or blowind dirge dps out of the water?</p>

[Aull]

<p>I would say if a raid leader had to choose between a dirge and bruiser that the dirge would get the spot 9 to 10 times. I know there are bruisers that can throw a decent parse every now and then. However if those same players were playing a mage/scout class with the same skill they do the bruiser then the mage/scout dps will be so much higher.</p><p>If bruiser's utility could be rated then I would rate it the absolute lowest of all fighters. For a bruiser utility will probably never be a bruisers call for a raid spot. I personally do not want bruiser becoming a utility specialist either. Bruisers since the beginning never had any true defensive or group utility skills, but their dps is what made up the difference. I think many players and devs are forgetting what bruisers once was. Anyway I am getting off subject.</p><p>All I can say is not to get your hopes to high on raiding with much consistancy on the bruiser. Unless you have some really good raiding friends the bruiser will be setting more than your dirge.</p>

[Gilasil]

<p><cite>Dechau wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Agree with some of it..</p><p>To raid tank on a Bruiser it does not take high end/avatar gear, but for sure 180+ AA wil make it a lot easier..</p><p>I have 2 T4 items, 2 T3 items and rest a mix of TSO/RoK fabled, and jewelery the same.. I can tank just fine in raids, all it takes is a little more readyness from your healers, and we also need a better grp setup for it to happen with succes..</p><p>Aggro is not an issue imo, sure our target locks could work, and our ae autoattacks could match the other fighters, but that is defo not the issue, strikethrough is, if a mob ST you and get lucky with a few hits after we go down 85 % of the time, wherer the Warriors and Crusaders are better at absorbing the hits..</p><p>That said, I would not swap my Bruiser for any other fighter <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>You've tweaked my curiosity.  Can you give some details?</p><p>1.  Can you give some examples of mobs have you've tanked?  Especially nameds.  (by tanked I mean start to finish and it was planned that way i.e. you didn't pick up after the MT died).</p><p>2.  What was the raid setup?  Specifically what kind and how many healers?  Was there anything special they or you did?</p><p>Any other particulars would be interesting.  If it's possible for bruisers to perform as a MT in a raid on current tier content I'd like to know how so I can do it too.</p><p>Barring major reevelations from that response, I would agree that if you want to raid you're MUCH better off with a dirge.  Bruisers mainly get dps slots when they're very well geared compared to the other characters the raid leader can choose from, if the planned encounters are of the few requiring a brawler, or for which a bruiser is particularly well suited (and they are few).  Of if there are so few people the raid leader is scratching to fill available slots.  </p><p>The only reason I"m raiding with my bruiser is I'm in an alliance which has usually tried hard to stay casual with relaxed class requirements (and relaxed expectations), they've often had a hard time filling slots, and I've worked harder on gear/AAs/Combat arts then others.  Now that they're getting more well geared players I'm finding myself excluded more and more from raids.  If this continues my EQ2 days are most definately numbered.  I"m also too stubborn and not motivated enough to push another character to max and get it geared/AAed out  -- if I reroll it'll be in another game. I haven't found a non-fighter class I really care to play and all fighters have problems getting into raids.</p><p>So don't get rid of your dirge.</p>

[Dechau]

<p><cite>Gilasil wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You've tweaked my curiosity.  Can you give some details?</p><p>1.  Can you give some examples of mobs have you've tanked?  Especially nameds.  (by tanked I mean start to finish and it was planned that way i.e. you didn't pick up after the MT died).</p><p>2.  What was the raid setup?  Specifically what kind and how many healers?  Was there anything special they or you did?</p><p>Any other particulars would be interesting.  If it's possible for bruisers to perform as a MT in a raid on current tier content I'd like to know how so I can do it too.</p><p> So don't get rid of your dirge.</p></blockquote><p>First off I will say I have been playing Dirge as main since T5, and raiding pretty much everthing but contested on him, and to swap from Dirge to Bruiser was VERY hard, and it did loose me a spot in a very good raiding guild to go play in a more casual guild for it..</p><p>Did I regret not killing endgame, sure, but not as much as I enjoy tanking on my Bruiser <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /></p><p>As for tanking, I have tanked all nameds but Silverwing in VP (Have not tanked T1-T3 RoK, but sure I could if needed), SoH up to Maestro.</p><p>In TSO, First 3 nameds in Tombs, First sisters in Palace and I've picked up and hold both Switch and Stalker on more than 1 ocasion, and sure I could tank from start to end if needed some time also..</p><p>As for a Bruiser MT, sure it can happen, we did have a couple who was MT in raid guilds, who tanked Avatarrs and everything, don't remember the name but they are to be found for sure on that other forums filled with flames <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Gilasil]

<p><cite>Dechau wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gilasil wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You've tweaked my curiosity.  Can you give some details?</p><p>1.  Can you give some examples of mobs have you've tanked?  Especially nameds.  (by tanked I mean start to finish and it was planned that way i.e. you didn't pick up after the MT died).</p><p>2.  What was the raid setup?  Specifically what kind and how many healers?  Was there anything special they or you did?</p><p>Any other particulars would be interesting.  If it's possible for bruisers to perform as a MT in a raid on current tier content I'd like to know how so I can do it too.</p><p> So don't get rid of your dirge.</p></blockquote><p>First off I will say I have been playing Dirge as main since T5, and raiding pretty much everthing but contested on him, and to swap from Dirge to Bruiser was VERY hard, and it did loose me a spot in a very good raiding guild to go play in a more casual guild for it..</p><p>Did I regret not killing endgame, sure, but not as much as I enjoy tanking on my Bruiser <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /></p><p>As for tanking, I have tanked all nameds but Silverwing in VP (Have not tanked T1-T3 RoK, but sure I could if needed), SoH up to Maestro.</p><p>In TSO, First 3 nameds in Tombs, First sisters in Palace and I've picked up and hold both Switch and Stalker on more than 1 ocasion, and sure I could tank from start to end if needed some time also..</p><p>As for a Bruiser MT, sure it can happen, we did have a couple who was MT in raid guilds, who tanked Avatarrs and everything, don't remember the name but they are to be found for sure on that other forums filled with flames <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Could you give some details about the raid setup for some of the harder hitting TSO mobs?  I'm more interested in your experiences because you do not appear to be using top of the line gear (it sounds roughly comparable to mine in fact).  I'm sure there are bruisers with avatar gear who tank just fine, I'm more interested in those with less then that who manage anyway and how things are set up to accomodate them.</p>

[Dechau]

<p>First 3 nameds in toombs I have tanked with grp being:</p><p>Bruiser - Defiler - Templar - Dirge - Coercer - Swashy/Assa</p><p>Palace was 3 healer grp, but could prolly be the same also, but it was</p><p>Bruiser - Defiler - Templar - Warden - Dirge - Coercer</p><p>Most of the time all you need is a Cleric/Shammy combination, that will keep you up against most mobs, that you have already killed <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>The raid is basicly the usual deal bards/chanters in each grp mixed with mages and scouts.</p><p>Hope it helps</p>

[MXGinge]

<p>Love the my original post exploded into this, but I have a question back to regarding my first post.</p><p>if your on a X4 raid and you have a decent raid force that has 2 bard (both dirges) and you send a tell to the raid leader</p><p>/tell raidleaderdude Hey guy, i can bring my bruiser or my dirge (both equally geared)  who do you want me to bring?</p><p>3 dirges seems a bit  much especialy in the near future when they make us less desired in raids due to making our songs raid wide.</p>

[Morghus]

<p><cite>MXGinge wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Love the my original post exploded into this, but I have a question back to regarding my first post.</p><p>if your on a X4 raid and you have a decent raid force that has 2 bard (both dirges) and you send a tell to the raid leader</p><p>/tell raidleaderdude Hey guy, i can bring my bruiser or my dirge (both equally geared)  who do you want me to bring?</p><p>3 dirges seems a bit  much especialy in the near future when they make us less desired in raids due to making our songs raid wide.</p></blockquote><p>I don't see raid forces using less than two dirges for 2 reasons even after the change.</p><p>1. CoB chain.</p><p>2. If there is only one of em and they die all the buffs are gone from the raid.</p>

[Dechau]

<p><cite>MXGinge wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Love the my original post exploded into this, but I have a question back to regarding my first post.</p><p>if your on a X4 raid and you have a decent raid force that has 2 bard (both dirges) and you send a tell to the raid leader</p><p>/tell raidleaderdude Hey guy, i can bring my bruiser or my dirge (both equally geared)  who do you want me to bring?</p><p>3 dirges seems a bit  much especialy in the near future when they make us less desired in raids due to making our songs raid wide.</p></blockquote><p>TBH it kinda depends, playing Bruiser myself I would hope the raidleader would just say get the Bruiser, but fact is if the raid is melee heavy, then a 3rd Dirge is really not a bad thing to have..</p><p>Even if you still have 2 Troubs, the grp that gets both Dirge and Troub will be in dps heaven..</p><p>Imagine: Dirge, Troub, Illu, Inq, Assa, Swashy..</p><p>Assa and Swashy's will do more dps than ever, and with the buffs provided, Illlu and Bards will also kick out a heck of dps..</p>