Which plate healer can solo better?

[Jrkh8er]

<p><span>I wanna make a plate healer. Of course I don't plan on soloing all the way, but I have to accept the fact that I'm not going to find a group every time I want one. So, which class can solo better: Templars or Inquisitors? Also, what are the "main" differences in playstyle between these two classes? I've been playing this game for years, and the plate healers are among the few classes that I've never played to at least 20-30.</span></p><p>Also yes, I realize that I might get just a little bias over here, but... honestly, this board is bigger than the Inq board, and I'm incredibly impatient ( ' -')</p>

[Grimfang]

<p>Well, I am a bit biased here... I would say that inquisitors are the better soloer, after enoug AA has been spent ofcourse. Templars... well, once they couldnt even fight their way out of a wet paperbag <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> but darn did they kill the mobs from old age! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />There has also been a small trend of templars begining as inquisitors and levels up towards mid-high 70's and then betray to templars... just because it is faster to level as inquisitor... but that is just a trend/rumour.The main differances? Inquisitors are more offensive minded, more debuffs and more damage and with weaker heals... and ofcourse templar usually are the opposite, kinda.I will let them puny pathetically weaklings known as templars answer more about... well, templars <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Calain80]

For leveling the Inquisitor is definitely better then the Templar. With really good gear and max AA in a DPS spec a Templar might be better then a Inquisitor, but this is more a theoretical potential then reality.

[Prophecy]

<p>I've betrayed back and forth between Inq and Templar a few times now and I will say the Inq is better at soloing.</p><p>Given equal gear, there's no comparison.</p><p>That's not saying you CAN'T solo on a Templar. I do it now at 80, but it's alot easier as an Inq at all tiers.</p><p>What do you wan't to be at end game? If you're looking for incredible healing potential, Templar is where it's at. If you're looking for a good bit of offense and solid healing capabilities, it's the Inq.</p><p>Both classes are viable to do DPS AND HEAL, but one is given more tools for healing, the other is given more tools to do damage.</p><p>Whatever you decide, I'd suggest playing the class you intend to be at end game. Even though they're both priests, they play VERY differently.</p>

[Sprin]

<p><cite>Wint@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I've betrayed back and forth between Inq and Templar a few times now and I will say the Inq is better at soloing.</p><p>Given equal gear, there's no comparison.</p><p>That's not saying you CAN'T solo on a Templar. I do it now at 80, but it's alot easier as an Inq at all tiers.</p><p>What do you wan't to be at end game? If you're looking for incredible healing potential, Templar is where it's at. If you're looking for a good bit of offense and solid healing capabilities, it's the Inq.</p><p>Both classes are viable to do DPS AND HEAL, but one is given more tools for healing, the other is given more tools to do damage.</p><p>Whatever you decide, I'd suggest playing the class you intend to be at end game. Even though they're both priests, they play VERY differently.</p></blockquote><p>yup</p><p>I played an inquisy to 70 and leveling was easy, i betrayed at 70 to get a feel for templar so i wouldnt suck at groups / PVP when i eventually went templar....   Inquisy is much easier to solo vs a templar... Templars with proper AA can do some damage, but its just not near as much or as fast as Inquisy DPS...</p><p>A few reasons why, having played and leveled and quested and Solo'd tough named bosses / mobs on both.</p><p>1.) reactive debuffs on INquisies cause damage to your enemys, Templar debuffs heal you and your group... </p><p>2.) With enough AA's Templars can get 25% boost to your spells but that goes away for 7 seconds after each beneficial spell you cast.  So if your fighting a tough mob or group encounter chances are your not going to ever see that 25% boost to your spell damage.</p><p>3.) Melee Inquis, enough said</p><p>4.) Fear / mez and Root on Inquisy can turn an "UH OH!!!" situation around and allow you to win when you probably wouldnt have with a templar.    Yes templar heals are better but with only a Stun and a Daze, coupled with long cast times, that UH OH situation may be unavoidable on Templar, wheras on Inquisy you can fear/mez em and get your heals off and get yourself to full.</p><p>5.) Power Proc... Inquisies have one that you can use on yourself, templars dont... Manawell gear works only if you heal yourself, and as I discussed above, if your doin that on your Templar often enough to proc Manawell lots, then your losing out on 25 percent boost to your Spell damage.</p><p>Now thats not to say you cant solo on your Templar, its just sloooooow compared to Inquisy.... and Slow = more power used and somtimes too much power used to actually win a fight... more DPS, power procs, better control effects, and damage debuffs make the Inquisy a better soloer then the templar.</p><p>The reason I took my Inquisy to templar at 70 instead of 80 was because I had a buddy who was leveling an SK with me at the time so I could quest with him and that prevented me from having to buy two sets of Expert spells..... Otherwise I would have stayed an Inquisy till 80 cuz solo questing in ROK / Moors on a templar = /wrists....</p>

[dirtymeat80]

<p>I found Templar to be quite easy to solo.  Went out and found the biggest 2h weapon I could get, spec'd into double attack/casting speed and smites.  Extra 25% boost at the end of smite line was up all the time, I'd just pop the group reactive a few seconds before I'd pull, and mobs usually dead by the time I needed to bother healing again.</p>

[SpineDoc]

<p>My Templar was incredibly easy to solo.  I found most quests in Moors for example I was 2-shotting most mobs in there, and can't recall having a problem with any named in there for a quest or AA.  Nothing slow about soloing either.</p><p>Keep in mind though that you have to have specific DPS gear and slant your AA that way.  I think Inq get DPS much earlier and easier, but both at end game if geared/AA correctly are actually pretty close, with the edge probably going to Inq.</p>

[Sprin]

<p><cite>dirtymeat80 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I found Templar to be quite easy to solo. </p></blockquote><p>Easy and Fast are two different things.  I guess its all relative too.  Having my main as a well geared Coercer and then swapping to a templar solo = /wrists... </p><p>The Inquisy was much faster DPS, and of course you could take on multiple mobs at once and heal at the same time and not lose any DPS because of it.</p><p>and its alot easier to time auto attacks around quick casting combat arts rather then long casting spell attacks... resits arent a problem either...  and with SOE loving that knockdown with every mob in the game starting with EoF zones, a 2 second cast on a spell inturrupted by a knockdown followed by a 2 second cast on a spell, which ends up getting resisted, followed by another 2 second cast time... in that same time you just landed 5 combat arts and 3 auto attacks on  your inquisy. </p><p>If the spells on the templar were FAR harder hitting then the Inquisy CA's then I could see equal DPS on them both, but the Inquisy CA attacks are just as big, alot faster casting and cant be resisted.</p>

[SpineDoc]

<p>My main is a well geared Coercer also, and I still found the Templar an easy AND pretty fast solo, of course not as fast as the Coercer, but nowhere near anything I would call "slow".</p><p>I think the solo game has been so extremely dumbed down that there are really no slow classes.  But my dirge, who is very well geared in almost a full set of T3, master spells and his mythical solo's like crap.  He's what I would call a "slow" solo due to the downtime and deaths.</p>

[SpineDoc]

<p>You have an excellent point on multi mobs, the Templar, while being very survivable against multi mobs, has almost no tools at all do DPS multi mob encounters.  In that sense yes they are slower.</p><p>In relation to spell damage, it would be nice to hit spells harder, but I've found in my experimentation that melee does more DPS pound for pound.  I've got my spell crit to 80 and my spell mod to the high 800's and find my big DD can crit for 4-5k, and with reuse and cast modifiers and all the DPS AA they are up to be cast between every single autoattack, so I only spam the 2 DD's and nothing else as they are always up.  As for timing autoattacks I find them VERY easy on the Templar with a 2H like the Thex Mallet I use.  If you compare the weapon delay versus the DD's cast speeds you will find they line up almost perfectly, which allows you to spam the DD's and you will always have an autoattack in between.</p><p>With maxed Rebuke cast I think my autoattack can crit (100%) for 2500 or so damage, times this by 5 (or is it x6, I forget) with 100% DA and flurry and well, you can see why it's much more lucrative to DPS thru melee, although I DPS thru BOTH melee and spell.  Pulling with a spell a typical fight might go: Pre-repent myself, cast Rebuke, cast big DD as they are running in:  5k (assuming spell crits), 12,500 (assuming flurry goes off), 1k (thex mallet proc which also heals myself), 3k (assuming my small DD crits), 5k (minimum autoattack damage with 100% DA/MC) to 12,500 if I flurry again, etc etc, that's not even counting all my vampiric and other damage procs which are made much nicer with our proc AA.  Solo mob is usually dead by the 2nd autoattack hit, if not the first.</p><p>BUT... as I've mentioned before this is end game.  I would think Inq get their DPS pretty fast on.  If you ask me the same question on a Templar with 50AA and MC gear then I would have to admit we completely suck at soloing, well not that we suck but yes we are very slow.  I might just be spoiled but I rolled my Templar on day one of Everquest 2 and can remember what truly slow soloing meant, I can still remember fighting solo single white mobs, taking 3-5 minutes if not more, and being OOP from healing myself at the end, ahh those were the good old days.</p><p><cite>Sprinng@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>dirtymeat80 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I found Templar to be quite easy to solo. </p></blockquote><p>Easy and Fast are two different things.  I guess its all relative too.  Having my main as a well geared Coercer and then swapping to a templar solo = /wrists... </p><p>The Inquisy was much faster DPS, and of course you could take on multiple mobs at once and heal at the same time and not lose any DPS because of it.</p><p>and its alot easier to time auto attacks around quick casting combat arts rather then long casting spell attacks... resits arent a problem either...  and with SOE loving that knockdown with every mob in the game starting with EoF zones, a 2 second cast on a spell inturrupted by a knockdown followed by a 2 second cast on a spell, which ends up getting resisted, followed by another 2 second cast time... in that same time you just landed 5 combat arts and 3 auto attacks on  your inquisy. </p><p>If the spells on the templar were FAR harder hitting then the Inquisy CA's then I could see equal DPS on them both, but the Inquisy CA attacks are just as big, alot faster casting and cant be resisted.</p></blockquote>

[Sprin]

<p><cite>SpineDoc wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>My main is a well geared Coercer also, and I still found the Templar an easy AND pretty fast solo, of course not as fast as the Coercer, but nowhere near anything I would call "slow".</p><p>I think the solo game has been so extremely dumbed down that there are really no slow classes.  But my dirge, who is very well geared in almost a full set of T3, master spells and his mythical solo's like crap.  He's what I would call a "slow" solo due to the downtime and deaths.</p></blockquote><p>I compare "slow" to what other classes do in terms of DPS... (Damage per second: the lower the damage you do per second the longer it takes to kill a given mob = lower DPS = Slower)</p><p>IE: Mob has 100,000 Hit points</p><p>one class has 1000 DPS = takes 100 seconds to kill the mob</p><p>another class has 500 DPS = takes 200 seconds</p><p>200 seconds is > 100 seconds, therefore 200 seconds is SLOWER then 100 seconds = SLOWER</p><p>I cant think of a single tank that does lower DPS then a templar...... ALL scouts do more... ALL mages do more... and Furys sure do more, Wardens do more, Melee mystics sure do more... Melee Inquisies sure do more... that leaves Defilers and Templars at the far low end of the DPS spectrum... so by that very nature, Templars are "slow" soloers.... </p><p>Slow compared to other healer classes and slow compared to all other classes... is slow in my book....</p><p>If all classes can do more DPS then a templar (which all but maybe the defiler can) then Templar = slowest...</p><p>Solo questing Im talking about killing 12 Chicken-Dragons here and killing 10 Rooster-dogs there... like the VAST VAST VAST majority of the quests are...   Soloing ^^^Heroic content is a different story, but thats not truely "solo" questing, thats soloing a group quest (a quest intended for a group that you just happen to be trying solo)</p><p>Most classes cant even survive long enough to solo some ^^^ Content, so in those terms Templar would be considered "fast" since not finishing = slowest you can get...</p><p>But even then.... when you take all the classes that can solo a given difficult ^^^ mob... Templar is still the slowest...  The hardest to kill, yes, but also the slowest.</p><p>Thats why i consider Templar a "slow" leveler and a "slow" quester... they are the slowest of all but maybe one class in the game...  slowest of all classes = slow to me</p>

[SpineDoc]

<p>Not sure what your point is, but I won't argue with you that a Templar might be slower in some situations.  Others he's faster.  I know that my Coercer needs to "wind up" before his DPS goes through the roof, ie: load up his reactives.  By the time my first reactive is preloaded on my Coercer the solo mob is already dead on my very first autoattack.</p><p>Now I'm confused and don't know if you are talking about regular soloing which involves solo quests, or are you talking about group content but achieved solo?  The former is what I thougth the OP was discussing, and in this sense, with a maxed out Templar, I'll say it again I don't think theres a large difference in soloing a single solo mob, with the Templar being faster in many cases.  If its the latter, then I'm definitely not talking about that as a Coercer, for example, will crush the Templar in the soloability of a ^^^.</p><p>Looks like we've had different experiences, maybe it's AA, gear, or overall choices, I'm not sure.</p>

[Sprin]

<p><cite>SpineDoc wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Not sure what your point is, but I won't argue with you that a Templar might be slower in some situations.  Others he's faster.  I know that my Coercer needs to "wind up" before his DPS goes through the roof, ie: load up his reactives.  By the time my first reactive is preloaded on my Coercer the solo mob is already dead on my very first autoattack.</p><p>Now I'm confused and don't know if you are talking about regular soloing which involves solo quests, or are you talking about group content but achieved solo?  The former is what I thougth the OP was discussing, and in this sense, with a maxed out Templar, I'll say it again I don't think theres a large difference in soloing a single solo mob, with the Templar being faster in many cases.  If its the latter, then I'm definitely not talking about that as a Coercer, for example, will crush the Templar in the soloability of a ^^^.</p><p>Looks like we've had different experiences, maybe it's AA, gear, or overall choices, I'm not sure.</p></blockquote><p>Well the OP asked how the Templar did as far as solo leveling, as he wont be able to find groups all the time to level.  Leveling to me is questing... with a bit of grinding at the end of the game with INstances, which the templar cant solo anyways...</p><p>Questing requires killing multiple mobs... which the Templar is the slowest of all 24 classes, maybe tied with Defiler as slowest...</p><p>Soloing tough ^^^ mobs cant be done on every toon anyways.  If a toon is immune to controll effects a coercer is gonna get OMGWTFPWNED really fast, and cant even be considered a contender on that mob, whereas a templar can fight through the hits and slow burn.</p><p>But on mobs where CC's are in play a Coercer is gonna OMGWTFPWN a templar as far as speed the mob is dead.... no comparison..  "Loading" up reactives on a coercer takes a matter of 10-15 seconds, afterwhich you can unleash the beast in the form of massive massive DPS and control effects....</p><p>If a ^^^ mob is killable by multiple classes, the Templar will be the slowest of all of them, thats my point.  If you are solo questing, killing a lot of mobs for updates, Templar will be the slowest of them all.</p><p>If a ^^^ mob is beastly for any class other then a Cleric / Healer then they will STILL be slower then other clerics / healers... gear for gear, skill for skill</p><p>DPS is the key... I can't compare a DPS spec'd Templar with a Heal spec Inquisy, or vice versa...  Equal Spell levels, equal gear, equal everything, Templar will be slower....</p><p>I also cant compare a Templar fighting a beastly Heroic Mob that only Clerics and even better equipped Pallys can kill vs a class that has no chance fighting that same mob...</p><p>Thats all I'm saying.....  Templar is one of, if not THE lowest DPS toon in the game, so solo leveling will be the slowest, IE: "slow"</p><p><cite>SpineDoc wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p> I know that my Coercer needs to "wind up" before his DPS goes through the roof, ie: load up his reactives.  By the time my first reactive is preloaded on my Coercer the solo mob is already dead on my very first autoattack.</p></blockquote><p>If the mob is dying to one auto attack from a Templar that means your wasting time loading it up with reactives... because Coercers have heavy hitting fast casting nukes that will blow up a mob faster then casting reactives and then unleashing all at the same time...</p><p>If you are popping everything including POM and Hostage etc etc on a mob easy enough to be one shotted by a Templar auto attack, that is a complete waste.....  Overkill is what its called... </p><p>If i see a solo easy mob and want to kill it, even using reactives, just pop him with Hostage and by the time the mob runs to you your puppets are already unleashed and the mob is dead before the mob gets to you and before the Templar could have even run up to the mob to START auto attacking...  if your killing a mob that easy... compare apples and apples, not apples and oranges..</p><p>If a mob is hard enough to need all the reactives stacked up on him then the Templar isnt going to one shot him with an auto attack, and certainly the Coercer will out DPS the Templar in that situation as well...</p><p>I have no doubt that your Templar is beastly and can do a lot of damage, but any equally geared / equipped / AA'd / played class will be faster at that same content if its indeed soloable by them....</p><p>And the OP was talking which plate healer is better...</p><p>In this case, all other classes aside, You have to look at what AA's / gear / spells are available to each... Cleric Trees are available to both, as are Shadow trees up to The very end line... so anything in those two catagories really cant be used to say "templar is better then Inquisy cuz of [insert Cleric / Shadow tree AA line here]"  IE auto attack damage, DA, melee crit etc etc...</p><p>So that means you have to look at the spells they get and the abilities they get in the EOF Tree and End line shadow tree...</p><p>Inquisies of course get access to CA's that the Templar doesnt, which means not only do their Auto attack crit 100% but their CA's do as well... faster casting 100% crit of CA's vs slower casting spells (even if your gear has put you at 100%, its still slower)...</p><p>Now take a look at the Inquisy Debuff reactives vs Templars... Inquisy has Damage procing debuffs vs Templars heal reactive debuffs.......</p><p>Looking at the EOF tree the Inquisy lines increase the damage done by the debuffs and of course the Battle Cleric line...</p><p>Vs Templars boost to heal reactive debuffs and spell casting speed (still not nearly as fast as combat arts that Inquisy gets).....  25% boost to spell damage only if your not healing..... </p><p>So in Conclusion, Templar and Inquisitor can share the damage associated with "auto attacks", which puts the damage done by both classes (equally played) on the other means of damage given to them by AA's / spells / gear...</p>

[SpineDoc]

<p>Definitely agree with you on inq versus Templar in the dps department, although I've never played an Inq, I'll take your word on it that equally geared they will blow a Templar away in DPS.  Templar is not low DPS anymore though, that's antiquated thinking.  If I'm having fun and am allowed to just dps (which I don't do often anymore as I think it's a waste) I'll normally parse 5-7k without a troub or dirge.  If that's the absolute lowest DPS any toon in Everquest 2 can do, then I didn't realize all the other toons could DPS that high.  I'm sure, as you say, the Inq can DPS much higher than 5-7k though.</p><p>Also my point about loading up the reactives was meant to say that by the time my Coercer loads up ONE reactive, lets say Destructive Mind, the mob is already dead at the Templars hand.  Seriously have you done the math?  A single autoattack from my Templar is 2600 and once in a blue moon I even see 3100, I was watching last night bc of this post.  But lets take 2600, with flurry, 100% DA and 100% MC a SINGLE autoattack hit can be 2600x6, that's before figuring in procs, and figuring in the 1k thex mallet proc.  If an opening hit of 12-15k is low DPS, then yes I'm completely guilty of having low DPS.</p><p>I've definitely agreed with you on multi mobs.  Coercer and many other classes will blow the Templar away in terms of speed of killing on multi mobs.  Templar is still much more surviveable, but much much slower.  Now it's not that the Templar can't handle the groups, he can handle them quite easily, it's that he's not given any blue aoes, and only one weak green aoe.  I've played with the WIS spec though and if you max the undead AOE it's pretty beastly in COA and undead nests.</p><p>I've also got a level 80 dirge with his mythical, some masters and the rest A3 spells, mostly T3 armor, 56% DA, etc etc.  He puts out about 4-5k DPS which on observation of other dirges is pretty decent for not being a hardcore raider.  It's a good amount less of DPS than my Templar, and soloing my Dirge is VERY slow, if he gets hit he dies pretty fast, even to a solo non arrow mob.  Yes I can kite him, but that's slow as well and I have to wait for my snare/root to refresh.  Now keep in mind that I still kill solo mobs in a fast time with my dirge, but relative to other toons he is SLOWWWW, even if that only means seconds, but that's your point.  Dirges also are even slower on multi mobs, we only get 2 green AOE's, one is fairly strong DD, the other is a weak DOT, we don't get any CC spells so have to tackle the entire group at a time, can't kite groups only solos, and can't heal ourselves (including after the fight, downtime should be a consideration in slow soloing).</p><p>In the spirit of the OP's message both the plate healers can solo very well, with an advantage to the Inq, but neither are slow soloers.  I've stated it before and I'll state it again, soloability will come to an Inq very early and very easily, the Templar will take much more work.  The answer to your question is definitely roll an Inq.  But I just had to respond to the "weak solo" myth that every once in a while rears its ugly head.  I'll let him play his toons and make his own decision.</p>

[Evadrian]

<p>It's all about personal play style. To the original poster, as you can see there are a lot of Templars out there (myself included) that don't want the "terrible solo class" label plastered on them. We can, and do take down stuff any other DPS class could. </p><p>Depending on your play style and gear, there is a degree of patience and strategy involved with soloing a Cleric: they are meant for groups, after all. But Inquisitors may be a more exciting choice if you're going to solo a lot, since they come equipped with a bit more offensive attacks. </p>

[Rigid]

<p>Keep in mind that on herioc targets Templar can keep them stunned then dazed, then mezzed long enough for the stun to come back and take no damage from the mob. This can help you keep your 25% damage from spells. I use that a lot in questing.... Its just going to take you a long time to kill stuff compared to most other classes no matter how you do it.</p>