Requesting a 3rd test server for PvErs who copy from live

[Nakaru-Nitepaw]

<p>This topic is not for PvE vs PvP dicsussion, because lets face it we all like different things. This is simply a request to the devs, for a 3rd Test server so that PvP and PvE players from live can test the new end game content on GU53 without having to create a level 1 toon on Test and being forced to grind their way to 80 (Which for the average player can take months). Being able to copy your live toon to test_copy was a good way to test content for end game. Most of us do not have a 80 toon on reguler test, because we play on live. It's only fair that as addition to the regular Test server where copying is not allowed, that there also be 2 Test_Copy servers. Test_Copy_PvE and Test_Copy_PvP. I believe it will settle the little dispute on the other topic regarding the situation. Please keep on topic and not turn this into another argument about what play style is better. I request a dev take consideration in at least having a temp test_copy #2 for non-pvpers. GU53 has PvP AND PvE content to test. It's very difficult to do this when the play style of the server only appeals to 1 type of player. It does not give room for people who want to group with people of the other faction, who are people they normally group with on live. It's not a comfertable play style for people who are not used to PvP and the restrictions that the PvP servers have.</p>

[feldon30]

My solution is a claimable item on Test Copy that all toons can pickup from a vendor in, say, Qeynos Harbor and East Freeport which, when Activated, makes the player PvP immune, and unable to PvP until they zone.

[Vraeth]

<p><cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>My solution is a claimable item on Test Copy that all toons can pickup from a vendor in, say, Qeynos Harbor and East Freeport which, when Activated, makes the player PvP immune, and unable to PvP until they zone.</blockquote><p>this may solve the pvp part, however doesnt solve one of the rules of pvp servers which was mentioned in the OP that opposing factioned players cant group together also they get kicked from their normal guild when pvp is switched on and they are different faction than the guild itself</p>

[feldon30]

Ah that is true.

[Borias]

<p>Yes, either another server, or a very, very easy option on test for people to change factions so they can play with their guildies that were split up copying from blue servers.</p><p>(almost all the pvp rules make no difference when testing pve content)</p>

[Gungo]

<p>The question i think does test have any real benefit anymore or should test merge into another server and then reestablish test server as a test-copy (pve) server.</p>

[Lleren]

<p><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The question i think does test have any real benefit anymore or should test merge into another server and then reestablish test server as a test-copy (pve) server.</p></blockquote><p>Test server serves a purpose, Test-Copy occasionally switching to pvp enabled serves a purposee as well.</p><p>It was a surprise when I logged on over there and it was pvp, but not an insurmountable difficulty for me to make the checks I wanted and submit feedback.   I was killed once going through Sinking Sands to get to moors, and then went another way safely.</p>

[KannaWhoopass]

<p>I have a great idea</p><p>How bout understanding that this is a test server , where pre game testing occurs. </p><p>It isn't a private Everquest server it's a test server. </p><p>And that is was originally the PvP test server. </p><p>And that the PvP ruleset requires more testing that the PvE because of additional features and possibilities that are unique to that environment. </p><p>Then start working out that being killed is part of PvP . Being killed  over and over and over . </p><p>So if you want to be a player on the test server start testing it. </p><p>Does the recent kill list work </p><p>Do the same items drop again and again when you get killed . </p><p>Do all of your combat arts hit for the same values vs different opponents . </p><p>what is the effect of the new gear available in PvP . </p><p>Are there gear combinations which are overpowering , how about the new PvP clickable items can you get a class and item and attack combination that has no defence . </p><p>How is tank taunting working , can SK's taunt lock you so you cant break from the taunt lock . </p><p>Can you create macro's to overcome being taunted. </p><p>Is the PvP targeting system working properly . </p><p>How about reviving in groups , can you produce a bug where the group is dead and you still can't revive. </p><p>How about getting credit for out of level range kills , have you pvp'd in the zones. </p><p>You see , the other server can test all of the new Quests . ... this server can test PvP mechanics , if you don't like it . Leave  !!! </p><p>It is after all a test server , not a game server , go play on a Blue server . i don't understand these posts at all </p><p>Players behaving like it's their private server , and the staff or anyone should give a flying trout , if you are upset because the test server is testing content . </p><p>Please , go test someting.</p><p>Or are you just too busy writing down all the quest solutions and locations for EQ2I and you'r guild mates on the blue servers for when it goes live?</p><p>A third server !!! are you [Removed for Content] kidding me. </p><p>How bout SoE makes a server just for you , they can deliver it to you'r house , name it after you , and consult with you about everything that happens on it.  </p><p>Get over it man , it's a test sever !!!  Not a little clubouse server for wannabe testers. </p><p>If you are a tester , than test , or are we testing how to complain on the forums. Believe me that test is done enought move on . </p>

[Juw]

<p>On the other hand, if your from a PVE server you may not know how PVP is supposed to work. How do I know if my hits are what they should be? Damage and spell mechanics are different on PVP. Yes I can see if quests are updating correctly, yes I can still report if I get stuck in the geographics, yes I can report on rewards or glitches.  But as gear and other things that relate to PVP I would have no idea.</p><p>It would have been ideal to give people a bit of warning, and there is no doubt that suddenly being out of your guild or unable to play with guildmates and friends totally sucks.  That's the part I hate the most. Those of us from PVE servers signed in completely unprepared for PVP.</p><p>Now that being said, I think PVP is kind of a fun change of pace. Would I continue to play on one after the novelty wore off? Nope, but for now it's ok. It's my understanding that this is temporary so I don't see the need for <span style="text-decoration: underline;">another</span> test server, but I hope it changes back soon so I can get back to testing content that I'm more familiar with.</p>

[Lillaanya]

<p>I don't see them making another test_copy server.  Test_copy was switched to PVP for the specific purpose of testing changes to the PVP server specifically before they go live.  If there weren't so many PVP specific changes coming it would not likely have been switched at this time, and will most likely be switched back to PVE after any PVP bugs have been worked through, I have not seen anywhere that it has been said that Test_Copy will be a permanent PVP server.</p><p>That being said there was no call to flame the OP on this subject.  They were simply making a suggestion.</p>

[Vraeth]

<p>a little bit offtopic, but i was wondering that if pvp toons can get copied to pve test, and then the server can be switched to pvp where the same pvp and pve characters are without any trouble then why is it not possible to transfer between pvp and pve servers?</p>

[Kain-UK]

<p>Someone from a PvP server comes in and flames someone from a PvE server just because they don't like the idea of test_copy being switched back and forth... i'm sorry, but that doesn't surprise me.</p><p>Personally, I always thought there -were- two different copy servers, one for PvP and one for PvE, so I was very surprised to login and find test_copy had gone PvP. I wouldn't want it on there because I -am- running around documenting stuff to go on the site I help maintain. If people don't like that, well, i'm sorry... but that is my opinion. I don't appreciate being killed to enhance someone elses gaming experience when i'm actually trying to do some work.</p><p>So yeah, I would love to see a test_copy and test_copy_pvp. Maybe they can use the old Venekor server for it.</p>

[Wingrider01]

<p><cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>My solution is a claimable item on Test Copy that all toons can pickup from a vendor in, say, Qeynos Harbor and East Freeport which, when Activated, makes the player PvP immune, and unable to PvP until they zone.</blockquote><p>This was done in reverse in eq1 - if someone flagged pvp on a pve server they could not interact at all with pve players, this is a great idea, cheaper then setting up a new server farm and having to make sure the code is current on all test boxes.</p><p>Would love to see this implemented, although it should be perment and not temporary, flag yourself and go test to your hearts content without being worried about being blindsided by a pvp</p>

[Bratface]

<p><cite>Wingrider01 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>My solution is a claimable item on Test Copy that all toons can pickup from a vendor in, say, Qeynos Harbor and East Freeport which, when Activated, makes the player PvP immune, and unable to PvP until they zone.</blockquote><p>This was done in reverse in eq1 - if someone flagged pvp on a pve server they could not interact at all with pve players, this is a great idea, cheaper then setting up a new server farm and having to make sure the code is current on all test boxes.</p><p>Would love to see this implemented, although it should be perment and not temporary, flag yourself and go test to your hearts content without being worried about being blindsided by a pvp</p></blockquote><p><span style="font-family: tahoma, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: medium;">This worked great in EQ1, I wish they would implement it here so we could have some peace.</span></span></p>

[Rijacki]

<p><cite>Vraeth@Runnyeye wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>a little bit offtopic, but i was wondering that if pvp toons can get copied to pve test, and then the server can be switched to pvp where the same pvp and pve characters are without any trouble then why is it not possible to transfer between pvp and pve servers?</p></blockquote><p>Because Test Copy was originally the Test PvP server. It often has PvP turned off when the changes on test are primarily PvE changes. So, it's not that PvP characters were being copied to a PvE server, it's that PvE characters were being copied to a PvP server with the PvP part switched off.</p>

[Vraeth]

<p><cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Vraeth@Runnyeye wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>a little bit offtopic, but i was wondering that if pvp toons can get copied to pve test, and then the server can be switched to pvp where the same pvp and pve characters are without any trouble then why is it not possible to transfer between pvp and pve servers?</p></blockquote><p>Because Test Copy was originally the Test PvP server. It often has PvP turned off when the changes on test are primarily PvE changes. So, it's not that PvP characters were being copied to a PvE server, it's that PvE characters were being copied to a PvP server with the PvP part switched off.</p></blockquote><p>that at least assumes the ability of pve->pvp transfer which was still denied</p>

[Gaige]

<p>PvE players should have a way to turn off the PvP flag so they can actually test the content relevant to them instead of constantly getting ganked.</p><p>Otherwise its useless for PvE players to try to test.</p>

[Froed20]

<p>I was not aware that the test_copy server was originally the pvp test server. Perhaps they should enable test_copy for both servers and permanently enable the pvp funtion for the current test_copy, that way both mechanics are constantly being tested, people know exactly what server they're getting into, and two ENTIRELY different worlds of playstyles are not butting heads with each other.  This kind of stuff only detracts from the true purpose of a test server, which is to test the new mechanics of the game.  Tossing PVP and PVE together is like releasing freshwater fish into the ocean... It just doesn't work very well, and it just causes a big mess.</p>

[Maroger]

<p><cite>Fayle@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I was not aware that the test_copy server was originally the pvp test server. Perhaps they should enable test_copy for both servers and permanently enable the pvp funtion for the current test_copy, that way both mechanics are constantly being tested, people know exactly what server they're getting into, and two ENTIRELY different worlds of playstyles are not butting heads with each other.  This kind of stuff only detracts from the true purpose of a test server, which is to test the new mechanics of the game.  Tossing PVP and PVE together is like releasing freshwater fish into the ocean... It just doesn't work very well, and it just causes a big mess.</p></blockquote><p>I don't see why they simply cannot have an immunity flag for non-PVP players the way they did in EQ1 to stop this ganking so that the PVE players can test the content.</p><p>Surely they can change the color of our names and give us an immunity flag so that we don't have to be involved with PVPers.</p>

[Nakaru-Nitepaw]

<p><cite>Idolitor@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>How bout understanding that this is a test server , where pre game testing occurs. </p><p>It isn't a private Everquest server it's a test server.</p><p>And that is was originally the PvP test server.</p></blockquote><p>Totally missing the point... Yes it is the test server, but right now not everybody is able to use it becuase it's pvp flagged and a lot of people do not enjoy to play like that. It doesn't matter what the server originally was.</p><blockquote>You see , the other server can test all of the new Quests . ... this server can test PvP mechanics , if you don't like it . Leave  !!!</blockquote><p>The other server does not allow character copying. Did you miss that part in the memo? Telling us "if we don't like it, leave" is very rude, I might add. This is why a lot of people don't respect PvP because theres people there with very bad attitudes. You are not the only type of person playing this game. Nor am I. This is why I am trying to offer a suggestion for a friendly solution to this problem, to allow all types of players to test the content without having to start over at level 1 on test. You telling us to "deal with it" is not helping the matter at all. If you don't like us PvEers talking about this so much, why don't YOU offer a solution that allows us all to test the content with our live characters without PvEers getting killed by PvPers or vice versa? Do you have a solution to that, other then making a 3rd server? Didn't think so...</p>

[Jacien]

<p>Please stop with the completely untrue claim that Test_Copy was originally the PvP Server. Because it sounds like...here let me demonstrate. Picture a 6 year old girl saying the following:</p><p>"Mommy gave me the toy first! You can't play with it because it's mine!"</p><p>PvPers have no claim to the server. If your entire basis for 'claiming' the server to be yours is because it was setup for PvP testing "first" then you're wrong. It was a beta test server long before ever being made publically available for PvP testing. Therefore it is a beta test server first. When the next expansion is ready to be beta tested, Test_Copy will be brought down, wiped then be used for the beta testing. I'd really like to see a bunch of PvPers show up and start QQing about the server being gone and being used for something else when it was the "PvP server first!"</p><p>It's not your PvP testing server and it never was. The server is simply a spare server used for whatever the development team wants to use it for. At present they have it setup for PvP testing. Soon it will revert back to a PvE testing server. Accept it and move on.</p>

[KannaWhoopass]

<p>It's a test server .... </p><p>Not the play with my buddies server ... </p><p>Not the im upset cause my guildies are now evil server ... </p><p>Go test PvP mechanics , or dont . it's up to you </p><p>But it's the assumption that the server is there for you to PLAY on that is flawed.</p><p>But PvP is a game style , and i will argue that it is the future of all MMO's , so if you want to help everquest </p><p>go test PvP mechanics and help solve bug issues , and feedback on what you like and don't like </p><p>The quests can be tested on the other server ...with me ..the other server ...</p><p>This server is being used atm to test PvP , imagine that a test server , being used to test new PvP gear </p><p>a new PvP token system , new PvP clickable items , and with the priest of discord lots of new possibilities to test. </p><p>So at least pretend you want to test something that cant just as easily be done on the OTHER server .... </p>

[Aurel]

<p>AFAIK, the server flips back and forth, doesn't it?  There is still a good chunk of time between now and the update to wait for it to be your turn so you can test what you want if you feel that you cannot test while PVP is active.  Just be good and wait your turn.  If us PvEers are so upset because the server is PvP, then pause and try to imagine how the PvPers feel about logging onto test copy and seeing it PvE and being unable to test content which will affect them.  In Kindergarten, they teach you how to share toys...  Think of test copy as a toy and share nicely, boys and girls.  d:</p>

[Gaige]

<p><cite>Idolitor@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>But PvP is a game style , and i will argue that it is the future of all MMO's </p></blockquote><p>You'd lose that argument.</p>

[KannaWhoopass]

<p><cite>Gage wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Idolitor@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>But PvP is a game style , and i will argue that it is the future of all MMO's </p></blockquote><p>You'd lose that argument.</p></blockquote><p>No i wont , id bet every MMO that doesnt ship with PvP enabled from this day forward will fail on the shelf fact.</p><p>You can come back and tell me im wrong when any MMO that doesnt feature PvP out of the box , lasts more than 3 months with high membership</p>

[Rijacki]

<p><cite>Idolitor@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gage wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Idolitor@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>But PvP is a game style , and i will argue that it is the future of all MMO's </p></blockquote><p>You'd lose that argument.</p></blockquote><p>No i wont , id bet every MMO that doesnt ship with PvP enabled from this day forward will fail on the shelf fact.</p><p>You can come back and tell me im wrong when any MMO that doesnt feature PvP out of the box , lasts more than 3 months with high membership</p></blockquote><p>Free Realms, jsut to name a recent one. Yes, it has dualing but no free-ranging, multi-person PvP. I don't think you could call it a flop or make the claim it has had less than high membership almost from the day its servers opened. Oh.. and yes, it is for a different 'audience', but you made a pretty broad claim.</p>

[Kitsune]

<p>This whole thing of "<span >id bet every MMO that doesnt ship with PvP enabled from this day forward will fail on the shelf fact.</span>" got me looking up Daedelus. <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/archives/001466.php" target="_blank">http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/arc...ives/001466.php</a></p><p>Graphs there show 62.5% women strongly prefer PVE, 35.3% men strongly prefer PVE . As for PVP, 5.6% women and 18.3% men strongly prefer PVP. And of the men who prefer PVP most are younger players....as is said below.</p><p>"There are 3 main server types in current MMOs - PvE, PvP, and RP. The following are demographic andmotivational differences among players with regard to server type preference. I was most interested in thedifferences between PvE and PvP servers.Overall, female players are significantly more likely to prefer PvE servers while male players prefer PvPservers. There is also a substantial correlation with age - younger players prefer PvP servers (r = .2<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" />. Amultiple regression showed that the Competition and Mechanics (min-maxing) motivations are the bestpredictors for PvP server preference (r-squared = .32), as would be expected. Together, this suggeststhat players on PvP servers tend to have a higher proportion of male players and also tend to consist ofyounger players.This has an interesting effect on gender-bending rates. The higher proportion of male players increasesthe chances that a female avatar is being played by a male players. On a normal WoW server whereabout 85% of players are male, there is a 50% chance that a female player is being played by a maleplayer. If we assume that 90% of players are male on a PvP servers, there is an estimated 68% chance(about 2/3) that a female avatar is being played by a male player."</p><p>So I think your prediction on all MMOs being PVP or dying on the shelf is waaay off base. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> Interesting that so many men play female toons too, don't you think?</p>

[Gungo]

<p><cite>Pedigru@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Please stop with the completely untrue claim that Test_Copy was originally the PvP Server. Because it sounds like...here let me demonstrate. Picture a 6 year old girl saying the following:</p><p>"Mommy gave me the toy first! You can't play with it because it's mine!"</p><p>PvPers have no claim to the server. If your entire basis for 'claiming' the server to be yours is because it was setup for PvP testing "first" then you're wrong. It was a beta test server long before ever being made publically available for PvP testing. Therefore it is a beta test server first. When the next expansion is ready to be beta tested, Test_Copy will be brought down, wiped then be used for the beta testing. I'd really like to see a bunch of PvPers show up and start QQing about the server being gone and being used for something else when it was the "PvP server first!"</p><p>It's not your PvP testing server and it never was. The server is simply a spare server used for whatever the development team wants to use it for. At present they have it setup for PvP testing. Soon it will revert back to a PvE testing server. Accept it and move on.</p></blockquote><p>You are completely wrong.</p><p>Yea you do realize the DEVS are the ones who said the Test_copy server was the TEST_PVP server. In fact it was the test pvp server because for like 2 years after pvp came out (DOF) there was always 2 test servers test and test_pvp. Then one day people asked for a copy server and test_pvp was changed to Test_copy for 1 live update (eof beta). Then it went back to test_pvp and then it went back to test_copy for over a year. There was like no PVP dev. The they got Ohlin who made a bunch of changes and they reflagged test_Copy to PVP. Then you came to the board to cry.</p>

[Gungo]

<p><cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Vraeth@Runnyeye wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>a little bit offtopic, but i was wondering that if pvp toons can get copied to pve test, and then the server can be switched to pvp where the same pvp and pve characters are without any trouble then why is it not possible to transfer between pvp and pve servers?</p></blockquote><p>Because Test Copy was originally the Test PvP server. It often has PvP turned off when the changes on test are primarily PvE changes. So, it's not that PvP characters were being copied to a PvE server, it's that PvE characters were being copied to a PvP server with the PvP part switched off.</p></blockquote><p>The current eq2 servers was never coded for pvp and while technically a pvp toon can get transfered to a pve server it takes alot of extra scrubbing. Which an automated system cant do. So the issue i think is more of a time/major datebase change thing.</p>

[Rijacki]

<p><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Pedigru@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Please stop with the completely untrue claim that Test_Copy was originally the PvP Server. Because it sounds like...here let me demonstrate. Picture a 6 year old girl saying the following:</p><p>"Mommy gave me the toy first! You can't play with it because it's mine!"</p><p>PvPers have no claim to the server. If your entire basis for 'claiming' the server to be yours is because it was setup for PvP testing "first" then you're wrong. It was a beta test server long before ever being made publically available for PvP testing. Therefore it is a beta test server first. When the next expansion is ready to be beta tested, Test_Copy will be brought down, wiped then be used for the beta testing. I'd really like to see a bunch of PvPers show up and start QQing about the server being gone and being used for something else when it was the "PvP server first!"</p><p>It's not your PvP testing server and it never was. The server is simply a spare server used for whatever the development team wants to use it for. At present they have it setup for PvP testing. Soon it will revert back to a PvE testing server. Accept it and move on.</p></blockquote><p>You are completely wrong.</p><p>Yea you do realize the DEVS are the ones who said the Test_copy server was the TEST_PVP server. In fact it was the test pvp server because for like 2 years after pvp came out (DOF) there was always 2 test servers test and test_pvp. Then one day people asked for a copy server and test_pvp was changed to Test_copy for 1 live update (eof beta). Then it went back to test_pvp and then it went back to test_copy for over a year. There was like no PVP dev. The they got Ohlin who made a bunch of changes and they reflagged test_Copy to PVP. Then you came to the board to cry.</p></blockquote><p>Gungo is right, the red names are the ones who said it was. Actually I remember when it was the Test PvP server.</p><p>In addition, it would be very difficult for me to 'claim' the server "mine" (in the name of PvPers, I presume) since I am primarily a PvE player and have copied to the Test Copy in the past specifically to test certain things. (I also have a few low level characters on the actual Test server, but that is completely beside the issue.)</p>

[Borias]

<p><cite>Kain-UK wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Someone from a PvP server comes in and flames someone from a PvE server just because they don't like the idea of test_copy being switched back and forth... i'm sorry, but that doesn't surprise me.</p><p>Personally, I always thought there -were- two different copy servers, one for PvP and one for PvE, so I was very surprised to login and find test_copy had gone PvP. I wouldn't want it on there because I -am- running around documenting stuff to go on the site I help maintain. If people don't like that, well, i'm sorry... but that is my opinion. I don't appreciate being killed to enhance someone elses gaming experience when i'm actually trying to do some work.</p><p>So yeah, I would love to see a test_copy and test_copy_pvp. Maybe they can use the old Venekor server for it.</p></blockquote><p>There are plenty of flames also coming from the PVE people, just saying.</p><p>I've posted it before, but here it is again- the fix that would basically work for the test copy server.</p><p>First- keep it pvp.</p><p>Second- implement a very quick and simple way for people to switch factions, so they can group with their guildies that copied over from a blue server.  Faster than exiling.  Something like a NPC only on test outside the gates that does it for you, with no loss of spells.</p><p>Third- Any zone that is *currently* under new testing has pvp disabled.  That means if there is a new instance, the zone it is in is disabled.  If there is a new big revamp or quest area, it's disabled for that zone. </p><p>3.1- Any other zone is considered fair game and pvp enabled.  There's no reason to *need* no pvp in zones that have nothing new in them.  You can do all that legwork on your own server.  But real, legitimate new testing areas should be pvp free, and let people run around everywhere else and kill folk.</p><p>Fourth- Any new pvp items should be buyable with 1 token, or free, so you can test them immediately.  It's not like you keep the items forever anyways.</p><p>Is any of that unreasonable?  Both rulesets can co-exist on copy test, the actual 'pure' testers wouldn't step inside a non testing zone anyways, and they can go everywhere else to pvp and play with that, see if they like it, and test that aspect.</p>

[Alienor]

<p><cite>Fayle@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I was not aware that the test_copy server was originally the pvp test server.</p></blockquote><p>Well, with that argument we would never had to go through the horrors of LU13 <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Things change. Originally the US was a colony of UK. (Almost) nobody would insist being it that way again <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Anyways, why do we have again keep the regular test server and can't enable /test_copy for this other non-pvp test server?</p>

[Borias]

<p><cite>Alienor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Fayle@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I was not aware that the test_copy server was originally the pvp test server.</p></blockquote><p>Well, with that argument we would never had to go through the horrors of LU13 <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> Things change. Originally the US was a colony of UK. (Almost) nobody would insist being it that way again <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Anyways, why do we have again keep the regular test server and can't enable /test_copy for this other non-pvp test server?</p></blockquote><p>Check my idea above your post.  I believe it to handle most every need that an actual tester could want, and allow pvp as well, all on the same server.</p>

[Bratface]

<p><cite>Borias@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Alienor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Fayle@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I was not aware that the test_copy server was originally the pvp test server.</p></blockquote><p>Well, with that argument we would never had to go through the horrors of LU13 <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> Things change. Originally the US was a colony of UK. (Almost) nobody would insist being it that way again <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Anyways, why do we have again keep the regular test server and can't enable /test_copy for this other non-pvp test server?</p></blockquote><p>Check my idea above your post.  I believe it to handle most every need that an actual tester could want, and allow pvp as well, all on the same server.</p></blockquote><p><span style="font-family: tahoma, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: medium;">No need, PvP can be turned off and the problem will be solved. It's only temporary.</span></span></p>

[Borias]

<p><cite>Bratface wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Borias@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Alienor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Fayle@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I was not aware that the test_copy server was originally the pvp test server.</p></blockquote><p>Well, with that argument we would never had to go through the horrors of LU13 <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> Things change. Originally the US was a colony of UK. (Almost) nobody would insist being it that way again <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Anyways, why do we have again keep the regular test server and can't enable /test_copy for this other non-pvp test server?</p></blockquote><p>Check my idea above your post.  I believe it to handle most every need that an actual tester could want, and allow pvp as well, all on the same server.</p></blockquote><p><span style="font-family: tahoma, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: medium;">No need, PvP can be turned off and the problem will be solved. It's only temporary.</span></span></p></blockquote><p>Look dude.  I get it, you hate pvp, you dislike pvpers, even when they are trying to fix the problem that's causing you to throw a tantrum all over the boards and take your ball and not play, and you don't like being shown up on the boards.</p><p>But try to be constructive here.  Or don't even bother.</p><p>But by all means, if you can improve upon my idea, or come up with a 2nd one which allows everyone to do their testing in a way that seems to be wanted by *both* pvp and pve, then go ahead.  Otherwise, please just refrain from trying to fan the flames.</p>

[Karrane1]

I wouldn't mind your ideas Borias.... with one addition. Make the docks PvP free also.. in all areas.. so ppl that are heading to the test zones can get there in one piece <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Like you said.. Test_Copy isnt there to just run around in.. its to test things out. I would come back to test_copy if these changes took place.

[KannaWhoopass]

<p><cite>Kitsune wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This whole thing of "<span>id bet every MMO that doesnt ship with PvP enabled from this day forward will fail on the shelf fact.</span>" got me looking up Daedelus. <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/archives/001466.php" target="_blank">http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/arc...ives/001466.php</a></p><p>Graphs there show 62.5% women strongly prefer PVE, 35.3% men strongly prefer PVE . As for PVP, 5.6% women and 18.3% men strongly prefer PVP. And of the men who prefer PVP most are younger players....as is said below.</p><p>"There are 3 main server types in current MMOs - PvE, PvP, and RP. The following are demographic andmotivational differences among players with regard to server type preference. I was most interested in thedifferences between PvE and PvP servers.Overall, female players are significantly more likely to prefer PvE servers while male players prefer PvPservers. There is also a substantial correlation with age - younger players prefer PvP servers (r = .2<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" />. Amultiple regression showed that the Competition and Mechanics (min-maxing) motivations are the bestpredictors for PvP server preference (r-squared = .32), as would be expected. Together, this suggeststhat players on PvP servers tend to have a higher proportion of male players and also tend to consist ofyounger players.This has an interesting effect on gender-bending rates. The higher proportion of male players increasesthe chances that a female avatar is being played by a male players. On a normal WoW server whereabout 85% of players are male, there is a 50% chance that a female player is being played by a maleplayer. If we assume that 90% of players are male on a PvP servers, there is an estimated 68% chance(about 2/3) that a female avatar is being played by a male player."</p><p>So I think your prediction on all MMOs being PVP or dying on the shelf is waaay off base. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> Interesting that so many men play female toons too, don't you think?</p></blockquote><p>Like i said any MMO that wants to retain an audience will have PvP as a core component of the game. </p><p>You can quote those things , and i really diont know where the stats come from , and its way off topic , but im sure im right , if MMO's what some of the market share from other games , they will need to incorperate the skill of playing VS a human into the game. No pixelated dragon , troll or game scripted event responds with the speed and varied responses of a human , and that varied response is what keeps a game new , Im a high end raider type , i have killed 99% of Everquest , i would have been gone 2.5 years ago if the PvP servers didn't arrive. </p><p>And if it wasn't forr the rushed game play , untested featuers , and blatant imbalances when it was introduced , i think it could have been much more of a draw to the EQ community that it turned out to be. </p><p>So to segway that back into the original thread, go test it on the server that was the PvP test server , and if you dont want to do that , go play on the blue servers that you are paying to play on , and leave the test server to people who want to aid the SoE staff to develop quality releases.  And in the release on the horizon a significant part of it is PvP updates.  </p><p>So get with the program , or go play elsewhere , this isn't a play server it's a testing server ... Go kill your buddy for a couple of hours , and test if you find it fair , unbalanced , do you ever drop that quest item you need by accident in pvp . </p><p>Does being killed at a critical point in a quest line break the quest.  ???</p>

[theriatis]

<p>A simple "No-i-don't-want-to-participate-nor-Test-PvP-Changes" Flag for a player (like the [Removed for Content]-No_Duell Flag) would do the trick. Make that a permanent one (decided the first time you login on the Test Server with a new Toon) and there will be no Misuse then.</p><p>Regards, theriatis.</p>

[SumOldMan]

<p><cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Idolitor@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gage wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Idolitor@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>But PvP is a game style , and i will argue that it is the future of all MMO's </p></blockquote><p>You'd lose that argument.</p></blockquote><p>No i wont , id bet every MMO that doesnt ship with PvP enabled from this day forward will fail on the shelf fact.</p><p>You can come back and tell me im wrong when any MMO that doesnt feature PvP out of the box , lasts more than 3 months with high membership</p></blockquote><p>Free Realms, jsut to name a recent one. Yes, it has dualing but no free-ranging, multi-person PvP. I don't think you could call it a flop or make the claim it has had less than high membership almost from the day its servers opened. Oh.. and yes, it is for a different 'audience', but you made a pretty broad claim.</p></blockquote><p>Eq2 for another</p>

[Borias]

<p><cite>Karrane1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>I wouldn't mind your ideas Borias.... with one addition. Make the docks PvP free also.. in all areas.. so ppl that are heading to the test zones can get there in one piece <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> Like you said.. Test_Copy isnt there to just run around in.. its to test things out. I would come back to test_copy if these changes took place.</blockquote><p>Hm, KP docks, TS docks, Nek docks, CL docks, and Ant docks are all in immunity.  Think the only other ones missing are EL, Feerrott, Everfrost, Lavastorm(except you can port over and warp to sol eye immune).</p><p>Would you need more, if the adjacent zones to new instances were immune?  Example- they are monkeying around with the crucible, so everfrost is pvp_disabled for the duration of the test.  But if they were revamping everfrost as a zone, Permafrost would *not* be, because EF is already an open zone, and disabled.</p><p>With guild halls it should be easy to warp around.  I'm sure someone can copy over some plat and make open access to bells, rings, and wizzie ports.</p>

[Alienor]

<p><cite>Borias@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Check my idea above your post.  I believe it to handle most every need that an actual tester could want, and allow pvp as well, all on the same server.</blockquote><p>*Nod* Yes, sounds reasonable to me. What about immunity in the SS/Moors landing zones? Or if I want to test/check sth in Fens or Veksar, how do I get there in one piece <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />? Even easier might be to implement the "I'm PVE, don't hurt me" flag as suggested, but somehow I doubt either will happen <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> At least this topic is much more entertaining than the RA thread *g*</p>

[Borias]

<p>Well, the dropship zone is completely pvp immune(unless you kill mobs there, which breaks it), except for the itty bitty part you wizzie portal into, but you can walk 3 feet and you're gtg.</p><p>The SS part isn't, but I'd like to think that someone could just transfer a guild over/buy a hall, and make public druid rings/bells for everyone to use.</p><p>Fens isn't bad.  Take the bell to Kylong, you can make the bird in immunity, to fens, have a 8 second run to the zoneline.  Then it's a bird, a jump and a swim to Veksar.  It's extremely rare to get pvp'd on the way to there, I think I've seen it maybe 1 time.</p><p>Whats sth?</p>

[Wilde_Night]

<p><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You are completely wrong.</p><p>Yea you do realize the DEVS are the ones who said the Test_copy server was the TEST_PVP server. In fact it was the test pvp server because for like 2 years after pvp came out (DOF) there was always 2 test servers test and test_pvp. Then one day people asked for a copy server and test_pvp was changed to Test_copy for 1 live update (eof beta). Then it went back to test_pvp and then it went back to test_copy for over a year. There was like no PVP dev. The they got Ohlin who made a bunch of changes and they reflagged test_Copy to PVP. Then you came to the board to cry.</p></blockquote><p>Actually, real PvP was not an option until the release of Kingdom of Sky.</p>

[Alienor]

No idea where the most dangerous spots are on a pvp server... Veksar was just an example. "sth" is my abbrevation of "something". Anyway, if I feel I am more busy with reviving than doing actual business I still can test the stuff on live <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Wingrider01]

<p><cite>Idolitor@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It's a test server .... </p><p>Not the play with my buddies server ... </p><p>Not the im upset cause my guildies are now evil server ... </p><p>Go test PvP mechanics , or dont . it's up to you </p><p>But it's the assumption that the server is there for you to PLAY on that is flawed.</p><p>But PvP is a game style , and i will argue that it is the future of all MMO's , so if you want to help everquest </p><p>go test PvP mechanics and help solve bug issues , and feedback on what you like and don't like </p><p>The quests can be tested on the other server ...with me ..the other server ...</p><p>This server is being used atm to test PvP , imagine that a test server , being used to test new PvP gear </p><p>a new PvP token system , new PvP clickable items , and with the priest of discord lots of new possibilities to test. </p><p>So at least pretend you want to test something that cant just as easily be done on the OTHER server .... </p></blockquote><p>Good points, some things you missed though - YOU want to test PVP mechanics, great more power to you, test to your hearts convent and file a multitude of /bug reports to assist the developers in makeing YOUR play style more to YOUR liking, now since PVE players would like to do the EXACT SAME THING for their play style, give them the ability to do so without being attacked or being able to attack those that believer in the alternate lifestyle. Resepct and coopreation goes both ways here. Have never attacked anyone on the alternate lifestyle server yet, but have been attacked multiple times by pvp orientated players while trying to test something.</p><p>You are 100 percent incorrect in your statement "This server is being used atm to test PvP , imagine that a test server , being used to test new PvP gear" The server is being used to test <strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">BOTH</span></strong> facets of the GU changes, not just the PVP changes, so give us the ability to test both one the dame server, not a hard thing since they have the basis for it in eq1. It is not possible to test some of the changes from the GU without a form of test copy. Great will happily go to the other server, as along as the ability to test copy there is given to the pve testers also, if not then it cannot be tested effectively and is a invalid environment and will not effectively test anything.</p><p>Again I disagree with the comment that pvp is a playstle and is the future of all onlie games, it maybe your future but if it comes down to that I will stop playing online games completely. Not everyone enjoys that alternate life style.</p><p>The more accurate version of your statement 'So at least pretend you want to test something that cant just as easily be done on the OTHER server .... "</p><p>"So at least pretend you want to test something and leave those that want to test the PVE changes alone, especially when asked politely...."</p><p>That fits better </p>

[Froed20]

<p><cite>Maroger wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Fayle@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I was not aware that the test_copy server was originally the pvp test server. Perhaps they should enable test_copy for both servers and permanently enable the pvp funtion for the current test_copy, that way both mechanics are constantly being tested, people know exactly what server they're getting into, and two ENTIRELY different worlds of playstyles are not butting heads with each other.  This kind of stuff only detracts from the true purpose of a test server, which is to test the new mechanics of the game.  Tossing PVP and PVE together is like releasing freshwater fish into the ocean... It just doesn't work very well, and it just causes a big mess.</p></blockquote><p>I don't see why they simply cannot have an immunity flag for non-PVP players the way they did in EQ1 to stop this ganking so that the PVE players can test the content.</p><p>Surely they can change the color of our names and give us an immunity flag so that we don't have to be involved with PVPers.</p></blockquote><p>The reason I say they should seperate the servers entirely is because when you test something you need the conditions and rulesets to be as close to the intended outcome as possible.  PVP and PVE are different rulesets.  Some things work differently.  Moreover, there is no option to turn your pvp flag off in the real pvp servers that I'm aware of.  When the Pvpers  come in to test stuff for their server, they need to have the conditions as close to what their real conditions are in every day life, or the results can be skewed.  Call me crazy, but how can they test their stuff when the majority of the players they come across are carrying an immunity flag?  It's just like how it is for us pve'rs... we need to test stuff in our realm of knowledge that affects our rulesets.  Having two conflicting rulesets present at the same time can have unintended effects that will alter the results of your testing. </p><p><cite>Alienor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Fayle@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I was not aware that the test_copy server was originally the pvp test server.</p></blockquote><p>Well, with that argument we would never had to go through the horrors of LU13 <img src="../images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> Things change. Originally the US was a colony of UK. (Almost) nobody would insist being it that way again <img src="../images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>It's not an argument, I really was unaware of it.  I just saw the test_copy server and felt that rather than trying to level yet another toon as I've done more times than I care for on the real servers, that I'd just copy my toon over.  Honestly, to even get on test its like you have to jump through a bunch of hoops.  Unfortunately, the last one there was invisible, lit on fire, and had a group of five pvpers waiting at the other end when I logged in.  I laugh about it now because it was actually kinda funny, but they really ought to have had some kind of warning when you /testcopy add.</p>

[KannaWhoopass]

<p>You guys lost me at the request for a flag where you can avoid testing content. </p><p>And preventing PvP in new areas to an expansion , is another way of NOT testing PvP changes. </p><p>And there is a whole other server with No PvP ruleset where PvE Exclusive testing can and is being done. </p><p>So ill stop bickering with people who are less interested in testing new mechanics , and more interested in playing with friends on a test server , and getting sneak prieviews for blogs and wiki content sites.</p>

[Gaige]

<p><cite>Idolitor@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You guys lost me at the request for a flag where you can avoid testing content. </p></blockquote><p>Why would PvErs want to test PvP things?  Not only that, why would YOU want us too, we'd be terrible at it.  We have no idea what we're looking for.</p><p>A way to disable PvP if you copied from a PvE server is the best solution, so everyone can do what they're trying to do on test.</p><p>As for "playing with friends" how is anyone from PvE going to be able to test the new raid zone with PvP enabled?</p>

[Froed20]

<p><cite>Idolitor@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You guys lost me at the request for a flag where you can avoid testing content. </p><p>And preventing PvP in new areas to an expansion , is another way of NOT testing PvP changes. </p><p>And there is a whole other server with No PvP ruleset where PvE Exclusive testing can and is being done. </p><p>So ill stop bickering with people who are less interested in testing new mechanics , and more interested in playing with friends on a test server , and getting sneak prieviews for blogs and wiki content sites.</p></blockquote><p>The other test server requires you to level from 1-80, though it's a little faster than normal.  Still, being that my current toon is already 80 with most of my spells and a good set of armor that can jump into the new content and actually function correctly, I'd rather use that toon then have to re-level AGAIN. As far testing the pvp mechanics go, as the above poster put it, do you REALLY want our feedback?  Because we have no clue in hell what we are doing or looking for, nor do we know much about how to defend ourselves against people who live daily in those servers.  I could jump in right now, test something, and not even know it was added in to be tested because I have no freaking clue what is already implimented, what is new, what is working as intended, and what isn't.  That's not very good feedback to recieve, and it just creates a mess for the devs who will have to sort the garbage feedback from the real feedback.</p>

[Wingrider01]

<p><cite>Gage wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Idolitor@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You guys lost me at the request for a flag where you can avoid testing content. </p></blockquote><p>Why would PvErs want to test PvP things?  Not only that, why would YOU want us too, we'd be terrible at it.  We have no idea what we're looking for.</p><p>A way to disable PvP if you copied from a PvE server is the best solution, so everyone can do what they're trying to do on test.</p><p>As for "playing with friends" how is anyone from PvE going to be able to test the new raid zone with PvP enabled?</p></blockquote><p>QFE - this makes the second time I have agreed with Gage over the last few years. Implement the EQ1 method of PVE/PVP on the same server</p>

[Kiara]

<p>We'll not have anymore of the threads addressing the Test-Copy server and its status as either PvP or PvE.</p><p>Thank you.</p>