How do you feel about retroactive credit for achievement kills and exploration? [Archive]

Rothgar

09-06-2009, 06:01 PM

When we first announced the achievement system, the only achievements that would give retroactive credit were related to quests since most quests can only be done 1 time. Anything that could be done over again, like killing certain NPC's or discovering POI's would require that you go back and did them again. Based on early player feedback we decided to give retroactive credit for NPC kills and POI discovery that we could track using the AA XP system. The downside to this is that any NPC's or POI's that you earned while being maxed AA were not tracked and therefor we aren't able to confirm that it was completed. This causes some confusion for players that may not understand how we track AA kills and POI's. This poll is to help me determine how many people would prefer to have the AA system start fresh for everyone and require that you go back and obtain NPC kills and POI discoveries again. Or, should we continue to give credit for kills and discoveries that we are able to track from the AA XP list.

Dreyco

09-06-2009, 06:16 PM

You're on the right track, Rothgar. IMO, this system is supposed to add in a reason to go back and re-experience content with purpose once again.Not to log in and go "Hahahaha, my achievement score is greater than yours because of X, Y, and Z on day one!"Keep it as it is! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Cyliena

09-06-2009, 06:21 PM

<cite>Dreyco wrote:</cite><blockquote>You're on the right track, Rothgar. IMO, this system is supposed to add in a reason to go back and re-experience content with purpose once again.Not to log in and go "Hahahaha, my achievement score is greater than yours because of X, Y, and Z on day one!"Keep it as it is! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>"as it is" is retro-active all around, which I think contradicts what you're saying there. I agree that it should be something where you have a purpose and get to re-experience things again.I went with option #1. It makes the most sense to me. I think of it as all those discovery locations getting reset when KoS came to light. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

revren

09-06-2009, 06:28 PM

Hey HeyAt much as i would love to be able to have every one of my kills documented , either from AA or not, i think starting every one from square one is a pretty good idea. Inaddition from every one starting from scratch , it weill be like when the expanshion went live every one running around starting PuG's for all of the old raids. As a token i think you should add some new rewards , more aperance gear, titles , house itmes, fluff pets , and i would love to see aperance weapons and secondary's. Just seeing people running around trying to find POI and such would be worth it.Welcome HomeRev

Thunderthyze

09-06-2009, 06:30 PM

We had this kind of issue when AAs were first introduced. Characters at cap had the devils own job getting on par with those levelling with the AAs so to speak. While these achievements won't have any real impact on play it would be disingenuous to suggest that it would be fine with everyone if you had to go back and do things a second time just to compare with newly created characters.I don't mind flirting with a couple of hundred people again but killing Holly Windstalker again just "because" seems sort of pointless......been there, seen that, done it, so to speak.

Bridgeplay

09-06-2009, 06:36 PM

Assuming no retroactive credit for PoIs, named mobs, etc. The player goes back and "discovers" Coldwind Point in Antonica. Which of the following would be true?(1) The player receives both Achievement credit and normal AA exp/regular exp even though the player received normal AA exp/regular exp long ago from the Coldwind Point discovery.(2) The player receives Achievement credit only.If (1), I'm fine with there being no retro-credit. If the player is going to have to re-visit a place (or kill a mob) to receive Achievement credit, then the AA reward/regular exp gain should be as though it was the true first time the place had been visited.If (2), then I favor retro-credit.Or do I misunderstand what's being proposed?

Xalmat

09-06-2009, 06:40 PM

I went with option 2, simply because it will be very difficult to convince people to go back for RoK and TSO raid kills in the future. Unlike previous expansions raid content, RoK and TSO raids will likely never be 1 groupable even at level 90 because of the way these encounters are designed (With a few exceptions).I think Kills should be retroactive when possible, but POIs I'm indifferent either way.<cite>Bridgeplay wrote:</cite><blockquote>Assuming no retroactive credit for PoIs, named mobs, etc. The player goes back and "discovers" Coldwind Point in Antonica. Which of the following would be true?(1) The player receives both Achievement credit and normal AA exp/regular exp even though the player received normal AA exp/regular exp long ago from the Coldwind Point discovery.(2) The player receives Achievement credit only.</blockquote>Option 2 is correct, Option 1 is not.

Korrupt

09-06-2009, 06:51 PM

There are alot of names that I have to go back and kill when achievments come out. Meaning I am going to be a nuisance to low level toons for awhile till I get them all. Taking away my credit for past kills will make me a much bigger nuisance to people. Especially since I will have a ton more to do than I already expect so I will not hesitate to gank names form anyone just to save myself time. So do what you want with it, but dont expect people that have already killed all those past names to play nice and wait their turn, the extra work is not our fault.

Buneary

09-06-2009, 06:57 PM

<edit>

Valanthe

09-06-2009, 07:04 PM

I voted for Yes on retroactivity, but I'd still like to see certain quests that require a certain kill being completed update the achievement for kills.

Cyst

09-06-2009, 07:13 PM

Make the old content worth going back for, do not use these achievements to force people to go back to the old content.

denmom

09-06-2009, 07:19 PM

While I understand going fresh gives everyone an even starting place, what bothers me about that is there are some kills accounted for that some, if not most, players will never have again.Some kills, like mythical kills, are once in a toon's lifetime.Some classes have a harder time finding a place in raids and instances.I know for my toons, and the toons of many others I know, the above is very true.Giving the achievements already tracked seems to be the better of the two.

feldon30

09-06-2009, 07:35 PM

<cite>Korrupt@Najena wrote:</cite><blockquote>There are alot of names that I have to go back and kill when achievments come out. Meaning I am going to be a nuisance to low level toons for awhile till I get them all. Taking away my credit for past kills will make me a much bigger nuisance to people. Especially since I will have a ton more to do than I already expect so I will not hesitate to gank names form anyone just to save myself time. So do what you want with it, but dont expect people that have already killed all those past names to play nice and wait their turn, the extra work is not our fault.</blockquote>Very good point IMO.

Master71

09-06-2009, 07:40 PM

I was level 60 when AA were introduced.So there are at last 50% of the world i had visited that didn't give me any AA Discovery.So if you force me to re-discover these lands, i expect you to give me full AA credit for that.By the way, you have ways to give achievement credit for these discoveries even if AA wasn't credited, should i remind you that you can't have discovery twice? so you already track discoveries since the launch of the game.

FreaklyCreak

09-06-2009, 07:43 PM

<cite>Master71 wrote:</cite><blockquote>I was level 60 when AA were introduced.So there are at last 50% of the world i had visited that didn't give me any AA Discovery.So if you force me to re-discover these lands, i expect you to give me full AA credit for that.By the way, you have ways to give achievement credit for these discoveries even if AA wasn't credited, should i remind you that you can't have discovery twice? so you already track discoveries since the launch of the game.</blockquote>I voted that they are not retroactive in hopes that the reset means they give AA for Killing named again after the wipe, and discoveries again after the wipe.That would allow ALLOT of people to get alts and some slower AA gaining mains to reach the AA cap before the next expansion.

BroKenWingZ

09-06-2009, 07:47 PM

I'd like an option to vote for scrapping the whole idea and putting the developer hours into ensuring itemization and progression (both zone-wise and item-wise) will actually work for the rest of TSO and into TSF.It seems to me that this acheivment system cannot be implemented correctly regardless... its either "Start from scratch." or "You get what you get, because our tracking system is flawed... what you didn't get credit for, do it over." If it was known that players would have to redo content because the tracking system is flawed, then this idea should have never left the drawing board. This system seems to be "busy work" for players to detract from the fact there will be no xpac until Feb.

Korrupt

09-06-2009, 07:53 PM

This is a completely separate issue than aa, don't confuse the 2. The other guy had a pretty good point about POI discoveries though, somehow they have to be tracking them so you dont get the you have discovered message more than once.

Armawk

09-06-2009, 07:58 PM

I am leaning towards starting them fresh, and it is definitely fairest to do that if players who were AA capped before expansions come out will have big gaps in their record while others will have those things recorded.

Rothgar

09-06-2009, 08:09 PM

Rothgar

09-06-2009, 08:11 PM

<cite>Cyst@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Make the old content worth going back for, do not use these achievements to force people to go back to the old content.</blockquote>Honestly it has nothing to do with forcing people to go back to 'old' content. As long as you're playing I don't care what content you're in. It has to do with making the achievement system fun.

Rothgar

09-06-2009, 08:13 PM

<cite>Oakmiser@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Master71 wrote:</cite><blockquote>I was level 60 when AA were introduced.So there are at last 50% of the world i had visited that didn't give me any AA Discovery.So if you force me to re-discover these lands, i expect you to give me full AA credit for that.By the way, you have ways to give achievement credit for these discoveries even if AA wasn't credited, should i remind you that you can't have discovery twice? so you already track discoveries since the launch of the game.</blockquote>I voted that they are not retroactive in hopes that the reset means they give AA for Killing named again after the wipe, and discoveries again after the wipe.That would allow ALLOT of people to get alts and some slower AA gaining mains to reach the AA cap before the next expansion.</blockquote>Achievements and AA are two separate systems. Whatever we decide to do with achievements will not impact AA XP. We definitely won't be resetting AA xp for NPC's you've already killed and areas you've discovered.

Rothgar

09-06-2009, 08:17 PM

<cite>Chidori@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'd like an option to vote for scrapping the whole idea and putting the developer hours into ensuring itemization and progression (both zone-wise and item-wise) will actually work for the rest of TSO and into TSF.It seems to me that this acheivment system cannot be implemented correctly regardless... its either "Start from scratch." or "You get what you get, because our tracking system is flawed... what you didn't get credit for, do it over." If it was known that players would have to redo content because the tracking system is flawed, then this idea should have never left the drawing board. This system seems to be "busy work" for players to detract from the fact there will be no xpac until Feb.</blockquote>The 'tracking system' isn't flawed at all. The purpose of this 'tracking system' is to keep up with named and POI's you've received AA XP for. You wouldn't like it if the tracking system kept all named and POI's regardles of you getting the AA XP because that would mean people at AA cap wouldn't want to kill any named because it would waste potential XP. In this respect the tracking system is working perfectly and I think everyone is happy with it.It was suggestions from you, the players, that we use the AA XP tracking system to give credit for achievements. So with that suggestion, you have to also accept the caveats that come with it. Which means, you won't get credit for any kills in which you didn't receive AA XP. As far as scrapping the idea, you do know that itemization and progression are done by completely different people than who did this system right? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Armironhead

09-06-2009, 08:25 PM

achievements are ftl. its lazy content resulting from lazy development. all it is, is soe apeing another game instead of focusing on what makes soe unique and fun. lets make all achievements retroactive so we can get them done and forgotten that much faster.

Gormak

09-06-2009, 08:26 PM

Im not by any means one of those "lets take it slow and see everything" types.But i really love the achievement stuff, as well as the interface.A core frustration for me over the past year was not knowing what nameds, locations etc i had or hadnt claimed aaxp for. The AA interface simply doesnt support it.The achievements interface is beautiful. Firstly, its like your own personal tropies list, which is neat, second, it gives you ideas on where to go and what needs to be done to claim some vanity, house loot, or a title, and 3rd, it finally lets me see some of the areas i may like to visit to claim some aa credit. While not totally comprehensive, its certainly extremely helpful.In short - Retroactive all the way, unless you intend to allow people to reclaim credit (AA credit) for items you deem not worthy of being retroactively applied. Very few will appreciate having to go back and redo old content for the sake of an achievement credit.

Bratface

09-06-2009, 08:53 PM

I voted retro because I have done so much in this game and there are too many things that I just don't think I will have the opportunity (or time) to repeat so I'd like to have my past recognized for achievements and not have to go and do stuff all over again.I have alts for that =pThanks for asking Rothgar =)

Thaelar

09-06-2009, 09:17 PM

What I don't understand about half these posts bashing the new Achievement system is that in the same post, sometimes even in the same sentence, these people say that the achievement system is worthless and yet they feel compelled that they must have the achievements rewarded to them retroactively. If the system is worthless, why do you care whether your character displays the achievements? If you care so much that the achievements be displayed on your character, then why do you consider the system worthless? Clearly if you want that achievement so much, it's not worthless to you and thus worth going back and doing the content again for the AA and credit.The one question I do have for the developers is this: Since the kill achievements will only track named you have gained AA for, what happens to those players who are capped on AA? Will they simply not be able to get credit for any of the named they kill from the point they hit AA cap?

Jeepned2

09-06-2009, 09:20 PM

Don't care either way. If I cared at all about an achievement system I'd go play WoW.

Tabrina

09-06-2009, 09:23 PM

4 years on my main and doing about everything in game I dont want to go back and do everything again, and actually refuse to for any reason. So if this is a reward system I dont feel rewarded at all if I have to do that. Basically if this involves me having to go do anything over again then I will just do without reward doesnt matter to me. I havent been really rewarded anyway for anything to my knowledge in the past all the way to level 80 dont see a loss for me. I vote for retro for sure. I dont really care if any of this gives aa because I was capped I believe at 50 forever then 100 forever then 140 forever and now have 198(because Im in no hurry now anyway), I dont need aa.

Deveryn

09-06-2009, 10:33 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cyst@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Make the old content worth going back for, do not use these achievements to force people to go back to the old content.</blockquote>Honestly it has nothing to do with forcing people to go back to 'old' content. As long as you're playing I don't care what content you're in. It has to do with making the achievement system fun.</blockquote>Anyone who likes the whole system is basically being forced to repeat content to achieve their goal. That isn't going to be all fun. Looking at my test copy, I have to go back and get Pawbuster, Overking, Venril and Leviathan, even though I'm currently in Veeshan's Peak. Let's ignore the fact that I'll probably end up doing those just to help people out. Killing those mobs isn't exactly fun for most people. It's often been a source of great stress. If you really want the system to be fun, remove the combat section until it can be fixed somehow. Something like this should have been working from the moment the Named NPC counter was put into the AA bar.

Aurel

09-06-2009, 10:55 PM

I pick option 4: I trust your judgment, so whatever you guys do, just don't scrap the system even if not everyone likes it, because I am super duper uber looking forward to this.I know, that statement is really selfish, and I don't -think- you guys are going to scrap it, but I just wanted to cast that vote and... um... oh what's that? *points and runs*

Korrupt

09-06-2009, 11:05 PM

They aren't gonna scrap the whole system. It's actually fine the way it is but people are crying that if they personally dont get credit for every single thing in game they've done, nobody should get credit for anything. It's childish really, take the credit that they are capable of giving you and fill in the rest. Complaining that since you have to redo a few names and POIs you want everyone to redo all content is nothing more than a temper tantrum.

Cyst

09-06-2009, 11:53 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cyst@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Make the old content worth going back for, do not use these achievements to force people to go back to the old content.</blockquote>Honestly it has nothing to do with forcing people to go back to 'old' content. As long as you're playing I don't care what content you're in. It has to do with making the achievement system fun.</blockquote>Fair enough.I just don't want to go back and do old content on new, alternate characters, let alone my main(s). I've seen it, it hasn't changed, and in most cases the itemization is horrible in the old content. It just isn't fun for me to go back and see the old content so I feel this Achievment system is forcing me to go back.Go back and change the old content, creating dynamic scripts like some of the TSO heroic zones, and I'll go check it out. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Xalmat

09-07-2009, 12:12 AM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>The large majority of these named updates for achievements (if not all of them) are in instances.</blockquote>Definitely not all named are instanced, there's several contested heroic named achievements. However there's also zero contested epic achievements.

Noaani

09-07-2009, 12:24 AM

<cite>Xalmat wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>The large majority of these named updates for achievements (if not all of them) are in instances.</blockquote>Definitely not all named are instanced, there's several contested heroic named achievements. However there's also zero contested epic achievements.</blockquote>Unless its been changed on test, Arazul, Hand of the Godking in Silent City is a contested epic... it is listed as a heroic achievement though.Every time I go out to check to see if the mob was altered, I get caught up in PvP in SS...

Xalmat

09-07-2009, 12:31 AM

Yeah most of the epic named in Silent City should be changed to heroic. Doesn't make much sense for them to be epic anymore.Once the gank squads are banished from Test we'll be able to find out if they're Heroic or not.

Maroger

09-07-2009, 12:51 AM

<cite>Bratface wrote:</cite><blockquote>I voted retro because I have done so much in this game and there are too many things that I just don't think I will have the opportunity (or time) to repeat so I'd like to have my past recognized for achievements and not have to go and do stuff all over again.I have alts for that =pThanks for asking Rothgar =)</blockquote>I agree I have been in this game and crafting since 2004 when it first came out. I don't find any kind of repetition fun and if there is not enough retroactivity this whole mess will turn into a grind which is why I don't plan to do anything with it. They have already told me I have regrind combines to get credit - so as far as I am concerned this "new" grind is a big loser if you have been in this game for any length of time.It might be fun for new people ( are there really any of those). but for those of us who have been here for 4-5 years we are being asked to repeat a lot of stuff and I won't do it. I view it as a grind - the exploration is the only thing I might do as that won't take too much time - the rest - BIG BORING GRIND.

Xdatinelia

09-07-2009, 12:57 AM

I personaly think the whole list is one big showoff thingie,. That being said my biggest showoff is my quest list, which doesn't apply here at all.Make it so if you have to make 25k combines in tradeskills, you also have to rediscover at the very least the old POI's. I am for letting folks keep the acheviements for nameds, but not PoI's personally.

Xdatinelia

09-07-2009, 12:58 AM

Edit: Double Post

Hecula

09-07-2009, 01:23 AM

Thanks for asking opinions on this. You already know the way I voted.

Luag

09-07-2009, 01:26 AM

if we can get aa for all of these things, then I saw make us go back and do them again, other wise, give us credit for what we did

Lleren

09-07-2009, 04:24 AM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Korrupt@Najena wrote:</cite><blockquote>There are alot of names that I have to go back and kill when achievments come out. Meaning I am going to be a nuisance to low level toons for awhile till I get them all. Taking away my credit for past kills will make me a much bigger nuisance to people. Especially since I will have a ton more to do than I already expect so I will not hesitate to gank names form anyone just to save myself time. So do what you want with it, but dont expect people that have already killed all those past names to play nice and wait their turn, the extra work is not our fault.</blockquote>The large majority of these named updates for achievements (if not all of them) are in instances. I don't think anyone needs to worry about 'ganking names'. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>I have not looked at the actual named kills used in those achievements, however if its all in instances then I do not care one way or the other which way it goes. Named Ganking by solo level 80's was a concern of mine when I voted that they be retroactive.

Ratche

09-07-2009, 05:42 AM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>As far as scrapping the idea, you do know that itemization and progression are done by completely different people than who did this system right? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>As far as the itemization and progression being done by completely different peole you do realize that scrapping this project allows all that dev time to be put into the itemization that actually needs work rather than all the fluff distraction crap on test right now right? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />

theriatis

09-07-2009, 09:15 AM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>It was suggestions from you, the players, that we use the AA XP tracking system to give credit for achievements. So with that suggestion, you have to also accept the caveats that come with it. Which means, you won't get credit for any kills in which you didn't receive AA XP. </blockquote>So either way, i have to go back and kill most of the KoS Dragons again ?A) If we use the Tracking System, i was capped on AA on that time -> No AA XP.B) If we don't use it, i have to go back also because there's nowhere noted in the game that i killed them.Another Question for you:Will the Eq2players Figures also be used for Achievements ? (For Example, there is a field which tells you how much Items you have crafted etc.)Regards, Theriatis.

Foolsfolly

09-07-2009, 09:19 AM

During the first 2 weeks of eq2, I did a ton of book quests. Only after the first big patch did I learn that those book quests were supposed to reward house items upon completion; they had been bugged and not rewarding anything. There was now no way for me to ever get these books for my home, and I am a very enthusiastic decorator. My library will never be complete thanks to this.When I went on the forums and complained, asked for my books, the developers told me "too bad". Apparently there was no easy way for them to go back and retroactively reward the people who did the quests before the fix.I am in favor of retroactive rewards. Give people what they have earned, as much as possible. And if a few get screwed along the way, then too bad. It's not like you're the first people who ever got cheated out of your retroactive rewards.

Whilhelmina

09-07-2009, 10:48 AM

I voted "Either is fine with me, I trust your judgment and leave this decision in your capable hands." as I don't kill mobs and don't feel realy concerned by the problem. But if some had the possibility to kill a mob and gain AA with it and don't have it now, it would, perhaps, be better for them to retain the achievement (ok, it's my case for Tarinax for exemple. I killed him in green in one of the very very rare raid I did). But, well, do as you see fit.

Noaani

09-07-2009, 11:32 AM

<cite>theriatis wrote:</cite><blockquote>Will the Eq2players Figures also be used for Achievements ? (For Example, there is a field which tells you how much Items you have crafted etc.)</blockquote>That lists items crafted, not combines made.There is a difference.

Bratface

09-07-2009, 12:02 PM

<cite>Noaani wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>theriatis wrote:</cite><blockquote>Will the Eq2players Figures also be used for Achievements ? (For Example, there is a field which tells you how much Items you have crafted etc.)</blockquote>That lists items crafted, not combines made.There is a difference.</blockquote>And what would that be?

FreaklyCreak

09-07-2009, 12:29 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Oakmiser@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Master71 wrote:</cite><blockquote>I was level 60 when AA were introduced.So there are at last 50% of the world i had visited that didn't give me any AA Discovery.So if you force me to re-discover these lands, i expect you to give me full AA credit for that.By the way, you have ways to give achievement credit for these discoveries even if AA wasn't credited, should i remind you that you can't have discovery twice? so you already track discoveries since the launch of the game.</blockquote>I voted that they are not retroactive in hopes that the reset means they give AA for Killing named again after the wipe, and discoveries again after the wipe.That would allow ALLOT of people to get alts and some slower AA gaining mains to reach the AA cap before the next expansion.</blockquote>Achievements and AA are two separate systems. Whatever we decide to do with achievements will not impact AA XP. We definitely won't be resetting AA xp for NPC's you've already killed and areas you've discovered. </blockquote>Then make it retro-active. Otherwise I'm not going back to do old content for no AA when I've already done it.

FreaklyCreak

09-07-2009, 12:32 PM

<cite>Bratface wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Noaani wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>theriatis wrote:</cite><blockquote>Will the Eq2players Figures also be used for Achievements ? (For Example, there is a field which tells you how much Items you have crafted etc.)</blockquote>That lists items crafted, not combines made.There is a difference.</blockquote>And what would that be?</blockquote>You combine to make arrows. Thats one combine. The items crafted is 100 because one combine makes 100 items(for arrows atleast).

Bratface

09-07-2009, 12:38 PM

<cite>Oakmiser@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bratface wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Noaani wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>theriatis wrote:</cite><blockquote>Will the Eq2players Figures also be used for Achievements ? (For Example, there is a field which tells you how much Items you have crafted etc.)</blockquote>That lists items crafted, not combines made.There is a difference.</blockquote>And what would that be?</blockquote>You combine to make arrows. Thats one combine. The items crafted is 100 because one combine makes 100 items(for arrows atleast).</blockquote>It was working that way on test from what I understand but it is fixed now, one combine of 100 arrows only gives you one combine, not 100.

Rijacki

09-07-2009, 12:41 PM

<cite>Bratface wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Oakmiser@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bratface wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Noaani wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>theriatis wrote:</cite><blockquote>Will the Eq2players Figures also be used for Achievements ? (For Example, there is a field which tells you how much Items you have crafted etc.)</blockquote>That lists items crafted, not combines made.There is a difference.</blockquote>And what would that be?</blockquote>You combine to make arrows. Thats one combine. The items crafted is 100 because one combine makes 100 items(for arrows atleast).</blockquote>It was working that way on test from what I understand but it is fixed now, one combine of 100 arrows only gives you one combine, not 100.</blockquote>And that's why the EQ2players stat can't be used.

Master71

09-07-2009, 01:20 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Oakmiser@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Master71 wrote:</cite><blockquote>I was level 60 when AA were introduced.So there are at last 50% of the world i had visited that didn't give me any AA Discovery.So if you force me to re-discover these lands, i expect you to give me full AA credit for that.By the way, you have ways to give achievement credit for these discoveries even if AA wasn't credited, should i remind you that you can't have discovery twice? so you already track discoveries since the launch of the game.</blockquote>I voted that they are not retroactive in hopes that the reset means they give AA for Killing named again after the wipe, and discoveries again after the wipe.That would allow ALLOT of people to get alts and some slower AA gaining mains to reach the AA cap before the next expansion.</blockquote>Achievements and AA are two separate systems. Whatever we decide to do with achievements will not impact AA XP. We definitely won't be resetting AA xp for NPC's you've already killed and areas you've discovered. </blockquote>As far as I'm concerned, i don't ask to reset AA xp, because in the first place, I didn't have it.I ask for equity, if i'm forced to visit all these lands again because there were no AA xp when i visited them, I expect to have AA xp like everyone had after AA were released.

Powers

09-07-2009, 03:23 PM

<cite>Master71 wrote:</cite><blockquote>I ask for equity, if i'm forced to visit all these lands again because there were no AA xp when i visited them, I expect to have AA xp like everyone had after AA were released.</blockquote>Well, first of all, no one's forcing you to do anything.Second of all, I'm pretty sure when Acheivement Points (now Alternate Advancement) entered the game that all such things were reset; you could have gone back at any time and (if mentored) gotten credit for the kills.Powers &8^]

Deveryn

09-07-2009, 03:57 PM

<cite>Powers wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Master71 wrote:</cite><blockquote>I ask for equity, if i'm forced to visit all these lands again because there were no AA xp when i visited them, I expect to have AA xp like everyone had after AA were released.</blockquote>Well, first of all, no one's forcing you to do anything.Second of all, I'm pretty sure when Acheivement Points (now Alternate Advancement) entered the game that all such things were reset; you could have gone back at any time and (if mentored) gotten credit for the kills.Powers &8^]</blockquote>How is it that if someone wants something and there's only one way to achieve it, they're not being forced to do it?

Froed20

09-07-2009, 05:13 PM

I voted for retroactive npc/disco credit. Part of it is because I feel that it would help me determine what I actually have gone up against and help me to determine where to go for other achievments/disco that add to my alt advancement (or whatever the heck it's been renamed to now). The other reason is because I really don't think you're going to see very many people running out in droves to pick up the extra POI's/Names they killed on their way to leveling. Sure, completionists will, and if there's a nice appearance item some others might as well, but I don't think you're going to see near as many folks as you hope suddenly rushing to the older, lower level zones for their Bucky kill, especially if they've already killed the little jerk more times than they care to remember.

Cloudrat

09-07-2009, 05:49 PM

I voted retro, because among other things, I don't think there is any possible way I will ever be able to get to do Tarinax in Death Toll again. Just to mention one of the many mobs that I have killed and won't be able to kill again to close it out on the achievement list. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Maroger

09-07-2009, 06:33 PM

<cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bratface wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Oakmiser@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bratface wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Noaani wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>theriatis wrote:</cite><blockquote>Will the Eq2players Figures also be used for Achievements ? (For Example, there is a field which tells you how much Items you have crafted etc.)</blockquote>That lists items crafted, not combines made.There is a difference.</blockquote>And what would that be?</blockquote>You combine to make arrows. Thats one combine. The items crafted is 100 because one combine makes 100 items(for arrows atleast).</blockquote>It was working that way on test from what I understand but it is fixed now, one combine of 100 arrows only gives you one combine, not 100.</blockquote>And that's why the EQ2players stat can't be used.</blockquote>So some people get credit for 100 combines instead of 1 - no big deal -- better to give the credit than have to ask people to grind again. I vote against anything that makes me redo something I have already done. FUN IS GONE - iT IS NOT GRIND . DO WHAT IS FUN FOR PEOPLE -- so the stats aren't quite right -but honestly who cares. Maybe you do but I suspect you are a minority

Queen Alexandria

09-07-2009, 07:41 PM

If you gave me credit for all the things I've done since I hit 200AA I would definitely have enough achievement experience to get another 100 points without doing anything more. I have 2500 completed quests, and I had 200AA before I did any of the TSO content (instances, shard quests, raiding)... so yeah... I deserve to have it retroactive. If I want to redo my achievements it will be with an alt. It doesn't make sense to me to have to rekill everything and go back to places I've already been. Seriously. For future reference, allow the AAxp to track achievements even after you've reached the cap. That way when you reintroduce more AAs, you can credit the people who are into experiencing evrything the game has to offer without having them redo all the content, again, and again.

Korrupt

09-07-2009, 09:24 PM

Naming this new system achievments is teh biggest problem, as our old "achievment abilities" is too far ingrained in people for them to distinguish the 2 now. The majorit of complaints about this have been about AA, not the new achievment system. Rename it Feats or something so when you have a discussion about it you dont get discussion about 2 totally separate topics like what we are having now.People, this poll and the achievment system has NOTHING to do with our current aa system outside of soe using it to retrieve past data when possible. Any arguement about AA xp is completely irrelevant here.

Rothgar

09-08-2009, 03:15 AM

<cite>theriatis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>It was suggestions from you, the players, that we use the AA XP tracking system to give credit for achievements. So with that suggestion, you have to also accept the caveats that come with it. Which means, you won't get credit for any kills in which you didn't receive AA XP. </blockquote>So either way, i have to go back and kill most of the KoS Dragons again ?A) If we use the Tracking System, i was capped on AA on that time -> No AA XP.B) If we don't use it, i have to go back also because there's nowhere noted in the game that i killed them.Another Question for you:Will the Eq2players Figures also be used for Achievements ? (For Example, there is a field which tells you how much Items you have crafted etc.)Regards, Theriatis.</blockquote>Only if the statistic is exactly the same as the achievement. For example, I took your PvP kill streak that we also report to eq2 players for the PvP achievement. But the crafting count is a total of all items, not a total of combines. Since it doesn't match the achievement exactly, I can't use it.

theriatis

09-08-2009, 04:26 AM

Hi,ok, then i will have to do 1000 Combines again (being 80 Sage and 397 Transmuter). So not funny ! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Another Question: Do you have Ideas or Plans to introduce with the Achievements something like an Alternate Advancement Bank, where you can pool a few Points without the Possibility to buy Skills (lets say, 10) of AA XP till the next Expansion ?Let me explain why:If you introduce the Achievements now, some people will get back and kill the Mobs (Example: Talendor). They will get the Achievement for the Mobkill, but no AA XP. So they have to go back and kill Talendor AGAIN when more AA XPs will be introduced with the Expansion... There are already people who killed Talendor very often while AA capped (in those times when KoS was the actual Exp), some of them got back to kill Talendor again to get the AA XP (and others, who where capped to help them), so killing it again for Achievements and again for the next AA XP when they are no longer capped... a little bit to repetitive.Regards, theriatis.

TheSpin

09-08-2009, 09:00 AM

Responding only to the OP:I'd like achievements tracked retroactively. As someone who's level locked a character heavily, I'd hate to go back and have to do everything over again. He's like 72 with 160 AAs and something like 50 days played time. It would really stink to lose a major benefit to having level locked (though the leveling process itself was fun, I admit).

Sharakari

09-08-2009, 09:56 AM

<cite>theriatis wrote:</cite><blockquote>Another Question: Do you have Ideas or Plans to introduce with the Achievements something like an Alternate Advancement Bank, where you can pool a few Points without the Possibility to buy Skills (lets say, 10) of AA XP till the next Expansion ?Let me explain why:If you introduce the Achievements now, some people will get back and kill the Mobs (Example: Talendor). They will get the Achievement for the Mobkill, but no AA XP. So they have to go back and kill Talendor AGAIN when more AA XPs will be introduced with the Expansion... There are already people who killed Talendor very often while AA capped (in those times when KoS was the actual Exp), some of them got back to kill Talendor again to get the AA XP (and others, who where capped to help them), so killing it again for Achievements and again for the next AA XP when they are no longer capped... a little bit to repetitive.Regards, theriatis.</blockquote>This is exactly why I said that the release of the Achievement System could have waited for the XPAC. I love the Achievement system but I will not be doing anything in association with it (that would give AA) until the XPAC comes out so that I get my AA at the same time. Heck..... I won't even turn in collections right now!EDIT: quantified the "won't be doing anything" statement

Arbreth

09-08-2009, 11:37 AM

Discovery, I would go back and find again, but kills are a whole other matter - I do not want to have to go back and find a named in a zone and potentially complete for said named. I have other reasons as well, but quests and kills, retro those please!

StaticLex

09-08-2009, 12:26 PM

This stuff needs to absolutely be applied retroactively! I've been playing since the game launched and have always been at the level cap in addition to having completed a ton of quests. When I look at my first toon now it's annoying as hell to see his 2300 completed quests and know that roughly 1000 of them were done before AAs even entered the game.There is also no way that a retroactive application would be unfair to anyone. Nobody is getting any sort of free ride here, these quest/mobs were tackled fair and square years ago..

Whilhelmina

09-08-2009, 12:52 PM

Quests are applied retroactively. btw, for those that speak about 1000 combines to do, the actual cap on this achievement is 100 000 combines.

Pitt Hammerfi

09-08-2009, 01:16 PM

DO NOT MAKE THIS RETROACTIVESeriously do people want to log in and hear Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding, Grats your finished with achievements?This is a new system, make it a fresh start, people have already been rewarded for their past kills with Loot, Satisfaction, and maybe AA points..Your're only rewarding people twice by making past acheivements retroactive.No one is forcing anyone to go back and kill things again, because the rewards are not necessary.

Mordith

09-08-2009, 01:45 PM

My character was max level when aa's came out so there were tons of quests and npc kills that I didn't get credit for. My alt has done less than 1/2 of the quests that my main has, and yet has more aa's. For this reason, I think we should be given credit for past quests, even if it means going back and hailing the npc that completed the quest. This would not be hard to figure out. Any quests completed prior to implementing the aa system should now award aa experience.

Lera

09-08-2009, 02:25 PM

I'd like to see it be retroactive for quests and NPC kills, but not POIs since it's easy enough to run around mostly-grey zones and get those.And there really needs to be an Achievement for hugging gelatinous cubes. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Barx

09-08-2009, 02:29 PM

<cite>StaticLex wrote:</cite><blockquote>This stuff needs to absolutely be applied retroactively! I've been playing since the game launched and have always been at the level cap in addition to having completed a ton of quests. When I look at my first toon now it's annoying as hell to see his 2300 completed quests and know that roughly 1000 of them were done before AAs even entered the game.There is also no way that a retroactive application would be unfair to anyone. Nobody is getting any sort of free ride here, these quest/mobs were tackled fair and square years ago..</blockquote>Huh? I think you are missing the point -- if it IS applied retroactively using the AA system, you won't get credit for that 'roughly 1000' of them that you did before AA was in or while at the cap.Edit: Originally read the post as referring to named kills, not quests. Quests will always be retroactive, as they have no other possibility (since you cannot repeat them). They're not the topic of this thread, the topic here is named kills and exploration discoveries.My vote is for non-retroactive for AA kills and explorations. Start everyone off on an even level, then folks will actually have to revist those zones to get credit.

Barx

09-08-2009, 02:30 PM

<cite>Lera wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'd like to see it be retroactive for quests and NPC kills, but not POIs since it's easy enough to run around mostly-grey zones and get those.And there really needs to be an Achievement for hugging gelatinous cubes. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>Only if we get an achievement for saying "Frostfell Elf" in crafting chat <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Bright_Morn

09-08-2009, 02:54 PM

<cite>Pitt Hammerfist wrote:</cite><blockquote>DO NOT MAKE THIS RETROACTIVESeriously do people want to log in and hear Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding, Grats your finished with achievements?This is a new system, make it a fresh start, people have already been rewarded for their past kills with Loot, Satisfaction, and maybe AA points..Your're only rewarding people twice by making past acheivements retroactive.No one is forcing anyone to go back and kill things again, because the rewards are not necessary.</blockquote>I want the kill achievments to be retroactive. Mainly because I have killed things that I won't have the opportunity to kill again until well into the next expansion (mainly TSO Raid bosses).

Wytie

09-08-2009, 03:04 PM

Please make this retro active.Why should I have to WASTE time doing something I ALREADY did to get credit for?This doesnt make any sense. Thats like saying... Well we are going to change AA skills around a bit so since you did not earn the new ones we are going to have to reset all of your AA so you can re-earn them all.Ummmm No thanks, dont punish your highly advance players with this new feature by forcing us to redo old content they have already done. This is your fault for adding this now rather than before we did it the 1st 8 times around.I do not find going and redoing something I have already done on many toons enjoying just because Achievements are just now activated. That would turn me off to the point that I wouldnt care anything at all about this because it would be rather pointless since Id have to redo stuff just for the sake of redoing it.This is my opinion no one has to agree but thanks for hearing it!

Barx

09-08-2009, 03:10 PM

<cite>Paill@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Please make this retro active.Why should I have to WASTE time doing something I ALREADY did to get credit for?This doesnt make any sense. Thats like saying... Well we are going to change AA skills around a bit so since you did not earn the new ones we are going to have to reset all of your AA so you can re-earn them all.Ummmm No thanks, dont punish your highly advance players with this new feature by forcing us to redo old content they have already done. This is your fault for adding this now rather than before we did it the 1st 8 times around.I do not find going and redoing something I have already done on many toons enjoying just because Achievements are just now activated. That would turn me off to the point that I wouldnt care anything at all about this because it would be rather pointless since Id have to redo stuff just for the sake of redoing it.This is my opinion no one has to agree but thanks for hearing it!</blockquote>Given that the system is pretty much entirely FLUFF, you do not have to do it again if you do not want to. But what retroactivity would do is actually "punish" the most advanced players -- those that quickly reached the AA cap and thus did not get AA for many of the things they've killed. What it would benefit most is those middle-group players -- those that did a lot, but did not get to or took a long while to get to the AA cap, since they would recieve credit for pretty much everything they killed.Thats why, despite all the votes in the poll, I think it should be non-retro for kills and locations. I posit that many of those votes A) are assuming that they will get credit for stuff they did while at the AA cap or B) Just want credit for the stuff and don't particularly care if they log in and insta-ding 30 achievements. I'm with Rothgars original sentiment -- the ONLY thing that should be retro would be things you can only do once -- eg completing quest lines or total # of quests completed.

Aule

09-08-2009, 03:33 PM

Sure it's fluff, but it'll also be annoying as hell to see things like: - Kill Lord Everling Sitting in your achievement list as something you've never accomplished. If it's a list of things your player has accomplished then shouldn't it include ALL the things you've accomplished?

Wytie

09-08-2009, 03:33 PM

<cite>Barx@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Paill@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Please make this retro active.Why should I have to WASTE time doing something I ALREADY did to get credit for?This doesnt make any sense. Thats like saying... Well we are going to change AA skills around a bit so since you did not earn the new ones we are going to have to reset all of your AA so you can re-earn them all.Ummmm No thanks, dont punish your highly advance players with this new feature by forcing us to redo old content they have already done. This is your fault for adding this now rather than before we did it the 1st 8 times around.I do not find going and redoing something I have already done on many toons enjoying just because Achievements are just now activated. That would turn me off to the point that I wouldnt care anything at all about this because it would be rather pointless since Id have to redo stuff just for the sake of redoing it.This is my opinion no one has to agree but thanks for hearing it!</blockquote>Given that the system is pretty much entirely FLUFF, you do not have to do it again if you do not want to. But what retroactivity would do is actually "punish" the most advanced players -- those that quickly reached the AA cap and thus did not get AA for many of the things they've killed. What it would benefit most is those middle-group players -- those that did a lot, but did not get to or took a long while to get to the AA cap, since they would recieve credit for pretty much everything they killed.Thats why, despite all the votes in the poll, I think it should be non-retro for kills and locations. I posit that many of those votes A) are assuming that they will get credit for stuff they did while at the AA cap or B) Just want credit for the stuff and don't particularly care if they log in and insta-ding 30 achievements. I'm with Rothgars original sentiment -- the ONLY thing that should be retro would be things you can only do once -- eg completing quest lines or total # of quests completed.</blockquote>Your are welcome to disagree with me, but my point still stands. When you change or add stuff like this in a MMO it should always be as retro-active as possiable. You did it so dammit you should get credit for it, fluff or not whats done is well.... done.

Barx

09-08-2009, 03:36 PM

<cite>Aule@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sure it's fluff, but it'll also be annoying as hell to see things like: - Kill Lord Everling Sitting in your achievement list as something you've never accomplished. If it's a list of things your player has accomplished then shouldn't it include ALL the things you've accomplished?</blockquote>Yeah. The main issue is they have no realistic way of knowing whether you did something like that beyond using the AA system.I could have killed Everling 500 times back before AAs came out, if I hadn't done it as a conned encounter sense (which I doubt I have, personally) then the game would not see me as killing it. In my eyes, it's better that the system sees none than do a half-functional retro.

Rothgar

09-08-2009, 03:45 PM

<cite>Barx@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>StaticLex wrote:</cite><blockquote>This stuff needs to absolutely be applied retroactively! I've been playing since the game launched and have always been at the level cap in addition to having completed a ton of quests. When I look at my first toon now it's annoying as hell to see his 2300 completed quests and know that roughly 1000 of them were done before AAs even entered the game.There is also no way that a retroactive application would be unfair to anyone. Nobody is getting any sort of free ride here, these quest/mobs were tackled fair and square years ago..</blockquote>Huh? I think you are missing the point -- if it IS applied retroactively using the AA system, you won't get credit for that 'roughly 1000' of them that you did before AA was in or while at the cap.My vote is for non-retroactive for AA kills and explorations. Start everyone off on an even level, then folks will actually have to revist those zones to get credit.</blockquote>No, this is bad information Barx.Quests will always be retroactive and they will count whether you received AA credit or not. We look at your quest journal for quest credit. We only look at the AA XP list for kills and POI's.

Barx

09-08-2009, 03:51 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Barx@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>StaticLex wrote:</cite><blockquote>This stuff needs to absolutely be applied retroactively! I've been playing since the game launched and have always been at the level cap in addition to having completed a ton of quests. When I look at my first toon now it's annoying as hell to see his 2300 completed quests and know that roughly 1000 of them were done before AAs even entered the game.There is also no way that a retroactive application would be unfair to anyone. Nobody is getting any sort of free ride here, these quest/mobs were tackled fair and square years ago..</blockquote>Huh? I think you are missing the point -- if it IS applied retroactively using the AA system, you won't get credit for that 'roughly 1000' of them that you did before AA was in or while at the cap.My vote is for non-retroactive for AA kills and explorations. Start everyone off on an even level, then folks will actually have to revist those zones to get credit.</blockquote>No, this is bad information Barx.Quests will always be retroactive and they will count whether you received AA credit or not. We look at your quest journal for quest credit. We only look at the AA XP list for kills and POI's.</blockquote>Indeed, I'll go back and fix that. I read their post as talking about named kills, not quests.

Thor71457

09-08-2009, 03:57 PM

Hey Rothgar Welcome back.. Hope you had a good weekend.. : ))

Rothgar

09-08-2009, 04:00 PM

<cite>Thor71457 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hey Rothgar Welcome back.. Hope you had a good weekend.. : ))</blockquote>Thank you! It was indeed a relaxing weekend!Now back to squashing those bugs from Test! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

kreepr

09-08-2009, 04:05 PM

<cite>Paill@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Barx@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Paill@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Please make this retro active.Why should I have to WASTE time doing something I ALREADY did to get credit for?This doesnt make any sense. Thats like saying... Well we are going to change AA skills around a bit so since you did not earn the new ones we are going to have to reset all of your AA so you can re-earn them all.Ummmm No thanks, dont punish your highly advance players with this new feature by forcing us to redo old content they have already done. This is your fault for adding this now rather than before we did it the 1st 8 times around.I do not find going and redoing something I have already done on many toons enjoying just because Achievements are just now activated. That would turn me off to the point that I wouldnt care anything at all about this because it would be rather pointless since Id have to redo stuff just for the sake of redoing it.This is my opinion no one has to agree but thanks for hearing it!</blockquote>Given that the system is pretty much entirely FLUFF, you do not have to do it again if you do not want to. But what retroactivity would do is actually "punish" the most advanced players -- those that quickly reached the AA cap and thus did not get AA for many of the things they've killed. What it would benefit most is those middle-group players -- those that did a lot, but did not get to or took a long while to get to the AA cap, since they would recieve credit for pretty much everything they killed.Thats why, despite all the votes in the poll, I think it should be non-retro for kills and locations. I posit that many of those votes A) are assuming that they will get credit for stuff they did while at the AA cap or B) Just want credit for the stuff and don't particularly care if they log in and insta-ding 30 achievements. I'm with Rothgars original sentiment -- the ONLY thing that should be retro would be things you can only do once -- eg completing quest lines or total # of quests completed.</blockquote>Your are welcome to disagree with me, but my point still stands. When you change or add stuff like this in a MMO it should always be as retro-active as possiable. You did it so dammit you should get credit for it, fluff or not whats done is well.... done.</blockquote>I usually do not agree with you on most of your points but this I do 100%. There is no valid reason to not retro our AA and POI list. Other then to punish us for already finishing some of the content. Barx I am sorry if you did something before it could be tracked with AA. But to punish everyone for a few, well thats just not right...

Hecula

09-10-2009, 01:46 AM

I get the feeling that a lot of people posting in this poll don't know that the achievement system is something completely different than the "old" AA system. This is not about AA points - this is about the brand new achievement system on test.

Bratface

09-10-2009, 02:01 AM

<cite>Hecula wrote:</cite><blockquote>I get the feeling that a lot of people posting in this poll don't know that the achievement system is something completely different than the "old" AA system. This is not about AA points - this is about the brand new achievement system on test.</blockquote>I don't think that at all, we seem pretty aware that the AA system is merely a tool, as well as the quest journal of course, to track things that can be counted for the achievement system.

theriatis

09-10-2009, 03:56 AM

Hi,is there a chance that you will track something like Zone Access and give out the Achievement for the Mobs you had to kill, even with maxed AA ? Or is Zone Access not tracked ?Like, for Deathtoll Access you needed to kill some KoS Dragons (once, before DT Access was made free), but as i was AA capped at that time i didn't get the marker which you could use for the Achievements.-> Just an example, there's plenty of that kind of things in EQ2.Regards, theriatis.

TheSpin

09-10-2009, 05:10 AM

<cite>theriatis wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hi,is there a chance that you will track something like Zone Access and give out the Achievement for the Mobs you had to kill, even with maxed AA ? Or is Zone Access not tracked ?Like, for Deathtoll Access you needed to kill some KoS Dragons (once, before DT Access was made free), but as i was AA capped at that time i didn't get the marker which you could use for the Achievements.-> Just an example, there's plenty of that kind of things in EQ2.Regards, theriatis.</blockquote>This was answered already. Don't blame you for not wanting to read all 6 pages to find the answer though.The answer Rothgar gave was NO. Simply because there are too many different scenarios that would have to be found and specifically programmed. Essentially it's the same as having killing Everling for the Bone Earring HQ before AA came out. You'd get AA for completing the quest, but not for killing Everling.

Aarionn

09-10-2009, 05:26 AM

Is there a possibility to make it player choice?For example, I log after GU and choose for my character whether I want to be credited rectroacctively or not? (except for achievements that are not posible if not retro like quests)Best

Vonotar

09-10-2009, 09:05 AM

If I want to start from scratch I'll roll an alt.Achievements should be as retroactive as possible, but feel free to chuck in plenty of achievements that were previously not measured or thought of.

Hecula

09-10-2009, 02:31 PM

<cite>kreepr13 wrote:</cite><blockquote> There is no valid reason to not retro our AA and POI list. Other then to punish us for already finishing some of the content. Barx I am sorry if you did something before it could be tracked with AA. But to punish everyone for a few, well thats just not right...</blockquote>I would hardly call giving people a new reason to re-experience old content "punishment". Again, it's a fluff system. Why would it bother anyone if it wasn't retroactive? Why would it matter? You don't have to complete it - you can just ignore it and everything will be fine.

Argyuile

09-10-2009, 03:03 PM

Dont give retro-credit. People will instantly get 500 achievments then spend a year whining that there arn't enouph achievments to do.

LadyMist

09-11-2009, 02:14 AM

There is no way I would have time to go back and get the npc's or poi's I have over the years. I now have a active little one that keeps me from raiding and doing extensive instances. I am for option 2 because I wont be able to get those raid mobs again nor do big long older zones like unrest and throne room ect ect ect.ps I have been play test for a couple of weeks now I know what this aa system is that will be in our journal, I wrote this comment because I noticed a few posts back some guy thought we were answering thinking it was the old aa system. I actually like this new system being implemented, but like I said, I don't have the time to redo what I did if they can give me any credit on that list for what I have done that Can be tracked its better than nothing <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

kreepr

09-11-2009, 10:04 AM

<cite>Hecula wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>kreepr13 wrote:</cite><blockquote> There is no valid reason to not retro our AA and POI list. Other then to punish us for already finishing some of the content. Barx I am sorry if you did something before it could be tracked with AA. But to punish everyone for a few, well thats just not right...</blockquote>I would hardly call giving people a new reason to re-experience old content "punishment". Again, it's a fluff system. Why would it bother anyone if it wasn't retroactive? Why would it matter? You don't have to complete it - you can just ignore it and everything will be fine.</blockquote>I guess it's who you ask and how you look at it. I could sit here and say that what one see's as fluff another may not. So in turn forcing someone to redo old content that they have no desire to redo or have done for the umpteenth time, some would look at that as punishment. Why would it bother anyone if it was retroed?? If you wanna go redo the content that bad go redo it. No reason to force everyone to. SOE can track and give credit to things we have done already, so it will keep us moving forward rather then back. If you don't like having it retroed then by all means just ignore it as you put it and all will be fine. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Dirty Jack Rackham

09-11-2009, 10:41 AM

<cite>Hecula wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>kreepr13 wrote:</cite><blockquote> There is no valid reason to not retro our AA and POI list. Other then to punish us for already finishing some of the content. Barx I am sorry if you did something before it could be tracked with AA. But to punish everyone for a few, well thats just not right...</blockquote>I would hardly call giving people a new reason to re-experience old content "punishment". Again, it's a fluff system. Why would it bother anyone if it wasn't retroactive? Why would it matter? You don't have to complete it - you can just ignore it and everything will be fine.</blockquote>If I want to re-experience old content, I have alts I will use. My main character has already been there and done that. I see no compelling reason to go back and do it all again after 4 odd years. If the information has been tracked and verified as being completed, then my main should be given credit for past accomplishments and not punished for having completed the content fair and square years prior to the introduction of this new system. No one is giving me anything for free here. I have already worked through the content. If it's verifiable, I deserve the credit for it. Edit: Clarifying a point.

MurFalad

09-11-2009, 11:09 AM

EQ2 is too big a game to need to do it all over again I've missed so much already levelling up, so I'd rather the AA tried as much as possible to steer me towards what what I haven't done rather then redoing the same content.And as others have mentioned, if I want to do all the content again I can always roll an alt (I have too many of those too <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ).

Hecula

09-11-2009, 12:08 PM

<cite>kreepr13 wrote:</cite><blockquote> If you don't like having it retroed then by all means just ignore it as you put it and all will be fine. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>I likely will be ignoring most of it about 2 minutes after logging in after GU53 because I'll have completed about 80% of the system retroactively based on what everyone else wants. Sounds like most everyone else will be ignoring it too - especially the people that want it retroed. That's the point isn't it? Give me the rewards without any additional work. I guess it looks like that instant gratification segment is winning with sheer numbers here.Hey, it's not all bad. At least then I can go back to playing Aion or sitting in my GH talking to friends and stuff and otherwise being bored waiting for raids.If this is how the system goes, I vote to never see something like this again. Taking several months worth of dev time to design a fluff system that awards most people over 50% of the achievements just upon logging in is just a waste of time.

Argyuile

09-11-2009, 12:14 PM

<cite>Hecula wrote:</cite><blockquote>Taking several months worth of dev time to design a fluff system that awards most people over 50% of the achievements just upon logging in is just a waste of time.</blockquote>This

Wytie

09-11-2009, 12:32 PM

<cite>Argyuile@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Hecula wrote:</cite><blockquote>Taking several months worth of dev time to design a fluff system that awards most people over 50% of the achievements just upon logging in is just a waste of time.</blockquote>This</blockquote>Taking several months worth of MY time just to REDO stuff that I have already done & leveled just for fluff is just a waste of MY time.Different perspectives same concept.

LadyMist

09-11-2009, 12:38 PM

alts they experience things all over again and again and again and......

kreepr

09-11-2009, 12:54 PM

<cite>Hecula wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>kreepr13 wrote:</cite><blockquote> If you don't like having it retroed then by all means just ignore it as you put it and all will be fine. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>I likely will be ignoring most of it about 2 minutes after logging in after GU53 because I'll have completed about 80% of the system retroactively based on what everyone else wants. Sounds like most everyone else will be ignoring it too - especially the people that want it retroed. That's the point isn't it? Give me the rewards without any additional work. I guess it looks like that instant gratification segment is winning with sheer numbers here.Hey, it's not all bad. At least then I can go back to playing Aion or sitting in my GH talking to friends and stuff and otherwise being bored waiting for raids.If this is how the system goes, I vote to never see something like this again. Taking several months worth of dev time to design a fluff system that awards most people over 50% of the achievements just upon logging in is just a waste of time.</blockquote>Well I wont be ignoring it because I still have a few alts that will start right at the beginning and I will get to experience it all again on them. It might be instant gratification if we where getting it with out doing the content. But we already have, so really we are only getting credit for what we have done. Your point is a little flawed.....If you are really that bored then just go talk to the Chrono Mage and go play some of the old zones for the fun of it. Or hey, roll an alt and do it......

Wytie

09-11-2009, 01:12 PM

I didnt ask for this system. Its not the player base fault they decited 6 years after this game goes live to give people achievements for stuff they could have done many many times on many many toons already.That sure as hell doesnt justify us having to do it all over again on the many toons that have already done it.As a matter a fact alot of that stuff I wont do again because it was such a pain in the butt.They already said that quest would have to be retro why halfass it?

RoryBradwarden

09-11-2009, 02:27 PM

Give me credit for everything I have done that you have tracked .... I don't want to redo everything

Dirty Jack Rackham

09-11-2009, 04:49 PM

<cite>Hecula wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>kreepr13 wrote:</cite><blockquote> If you don't like having it retroed then by all means just ignore it as you put it and all will be fine. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>I likely will be ignoring most of it about 2 minutes after logging in after GU53 because I'll have completed about 80% of the system retroactively based on what everyone else wants. Sounds like most everyone else will be ignoring it too - especially the people that want it retroed. That's the point isn't it? Give me the rewards without any additional work. I guess it looks like that instant gratification segment is winning with sheer numbers here.Hey, it's not all bad. At least then I can go back to playing Aion or sitting in my GH talking to friends and stuff and otherwise being bored waiting for raids.If this is how the system goes, I vote to never see something like this again. Taking several months worth of dev time to design a fluff system that awards most people over 50% of the achievements just upon logging in is just a waste of time.</blockquote>What part of we've already worked through the content at least once aren't you managing to understand? Why should those of use who have done the content at least once, if not multiple times, be forced to do it all again when someone just coming in only has to do this once? There is nothing being handed to us. We did the work already. What's the problem with reaping the rewards now?And if Aion, which appears to me to be a cross between Rappelz and WoW, is your thing, more power to you.

Hecula

09-11-2009, 05:28 PM

<cite>Paill@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Taking several months worth of MY time just to REDO stuff that I have already done & leveled just for fluff is just a waste of MY time.</blockquote>It's called a game. You should be getting enjoyment from playing it. EQ2 is a game you can't technically "win" - you have to keep playing it to enjoy it. If you're not enjoying playing it, might as well uninstall. Or play something else.My understanding is flawed only to the point that I don't understand the enjoyment of an achivement system that is all awarded up front. Why not just design a trophy that says "I'm the Best" so we all can claim it and put it in our 5-room acorns next to all the dusty heritage quest items, plushies and other junk? Why bother tracking stuff at all other than so people can see what they havent accomplished, which the majority of people responding have said they won't go back and do anyways?Why does getting something like this even matter then? How does it make the game more enjoyable at all for you (other than the brief 2 seconds it falls into your lap when you log on)? And if it doesn't - if it isn't meant to give someone some enjoyment and something to do for the next 6 months, why was so much time spent designing it?

Hecula

09-11-2009, 05:34 PM

<cite>Dirty Jack Rackham wrote:</cite><blockquote>What part of we've already worked through the content at least once aren't you managing to understand? Why should those of use who have done the content at least once, if not multiple times, be forced to do it all again when someone just coming in only has to do this once?</blockquote>I completely understand you. You've accomplished something once. Great. Glad for you. I'm sure it will give you 6-months of pleasure hearing that dinging sound when you log in that commemorates your past trials and tribulations.As far as being forced to do it, can you tell me who is forcing you? That's the part I'm not understanding right now.

Bratface

09-11-2009, 05:49 PM

<cite>Hecula wrote:</cite><blockquote>As far as being forced to do it, can you tell me who is forcing you? That's the part I'm not understanding right now.</blockquote>No one is forcing you to *not* do it all over again if it gives you a sense of accomplishment.By all means feel free to run through all the old zones and kill all the same mobs again, just pretend you never did them before and never got credit for it.Don't ask the rest of us to redo content that we have done, we already did that and got the T-shirt, now give us the credit, thanks.

Bratface

09-11-2009, 06:05 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Quests will always be retroactive and they will count whether you received AA credit or not. We look at your quest journal for quest credit. We only look at the AA XP list for kills and POI's.</blockquote>Ok, I need to ask about this part.I am Trakanon flagged and have killed every mob in VP in order to get the flag (Taking on Trakanon quest) yet I did not receive credit for it in achievements, I did kill this mob after I was capped on AA's but it should still be recorded and credited if it uses my quest journal which shows that quest completed. But I do not have credit in achievements for killing Phara Dar which is required in the quest.I did file a /bug but came here to check to see if I actually understood it correctly about it using the quest journal to track things.

Wytie

09-11-2009, 06:44 PM

<cite>Hecula wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Paill@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Taking several months worth of MY time just to REDO stuff that I have already done & leveled just for fluff is just a waste of MY time.</blockquote>It's called a game. You should be getting enjoyment from playing it. EQ2 is a game you can't technically "win" - you have to keep playing it to enjoy it. If you're not enjoying playing it, might as well uninstall. Or play something else.My understanding is flawed only to the point that I don't understand the enjoyment of an achivement system that is all awarded up front. Why not just design a trophy that says "I'm the Best" so we all can claim it and put it in our 5-room acorns next to all the dusty heritage quest items, plushies and other junk? Why bother tracking stuff at all other than so people can see what they havent accomplished, which the majority of people responding have said they won't go back and do anyways?Why does getting something like this even matter then? How does it make the game more enjoyable at all for you (other than the brief 2 seconds it falls into your lap when you log on)? And if it doesn't - if it isn't meant to give someone some enjoyment and something to do for the next 6 months, why was so much time spent designing it?</blockquote>You seem to be drastly missing the point. They are already giving you retro achievement for quest you have done. What is the [Removed for Content] difference?So are you telling me you are upset that you cant do your mythical quest again for this achievement since it will be added after that fact you may have already done it?You are not making any sense.What is the point in giving you reto credit for one thing thats trackable and not another?You are ranting off about enjoyment that has absolutly nothing to do with the point in hand.Of course I had fun doing it the first time when this stuff conned to me as I leveled, I do not find a sence of enjoyment in having to do sometihng I already did on a toon again just to gain this so called achievement.Why is that so [Removed for Content] hard to understand?

Rothgar

09-11-2009, 06:51 PM

<cite>Bratface wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Quests will always be retroactive and they will count whether you received AA credit or not. We look at your quest journal for quest credit. We only look at the AA XP list for kills and POI's.</blockquote>Ok, I need to ask about this part.I am Trakanon flagged and have killed every mob in VP in order to get the flag (Taking on Trakanon quest) yet I did not receive credit for it in achievements, I did kill this mob after I was capped on AA's but it should still be recorded and credited if it uses my quest journal which shows that quest completed. But I do not have credit in achievements for killing Phara Dar which is required in the quest.I did file a /bug but came here to check to see if I actually understood it correctly about it using the quest journal to track things.</blockquote>We only use the quest journal to count how many quests you've done for quest-related achievements. We don't use the quest journal to determine things like kills. It would take way too long to define all of the dependencies for every kill and every quest.

madha

09-11-2009, 07:05 PM

to me on my toon i realy just ran through to 80 to start raiding and all my raid kills where done while not capped, heck im still not 200 AA. But i do have a toon that used to be my main that i played for about 1 year at cap, to redo all those kills to try and get raid together for woshi ext. Well it sucks, but tbh since most if not all people that killed the higher end mobs need to kill them again then, well thast alot of peopel for a raid. and grey raids can be duoed with just about any combo of people, jyst bring a rezzier for vox.

Schandli

09-11-2009, 08:13 PM

Xalmat

09-11-2009, 08:17 PM

<cite>Schandlich@Blackburrow wrote:</cite><blockquote>Would it be out of the realm of possibility to at least see if we are VP flagged? Or Levi flagged? That we have our myth? That should knock off a few of the raid mobs which would be kinda nice.</blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>It would take way too long to define all of the dependencies for every kill and every quest.</blockquote>Especially when you're talking 24 epic quests, some of which have multiple quests as part of the Mythical step (such as Conjuror).

Schandli

09-11-2009, 08:24 PM

<cite>Xalmat wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Schandlich@Blackburrow wrote:</cite><blockquote>Would it be out of the realm of possibility to at least see if we are VP flagged? Or Levi flagged? That we have our myth? That should knock off a few of the raid mobs which would be kinda nice.</blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>It would take way too long to define all of the dependencies for every kill and every quest.</blockquote>Especially when you're talking 24 epic quests, some of which have multiple quests as part of the Mythical step (such as Conjuror).</blockquote>But everytime I enter VP, what value is getting checked? Its not to see if I have gained AA for Levi. I had no quests related to him. There must be a "User can enter VP" flag of some sort. Would it be too hard to do that at least? I also do not see the problem with checking to see if a user has their myth to see what they have killed. If I have my Myth, that must mean that I called Pawbuster, VS, Levi and Hoshkar. We are talking about a case statement that would have to run one time.

Bratface

09-11-2009, 08:42 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bratface wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Quests will always be retroactive and they will count whether you received AA credit or not. We look at your quest journal for quest credit. We only look at the AA XP list for kills and POI's.</blockquote>Ok, I need to ask about this part.I am Trakanon flagged and have killed every mob in VP in order to get the flag (Taking on Trakanon quest) yet I did not receive credit for it in achievements, I did kill this mob after I was capped on AA's but it should still be recorded and credited if it uses my quest journal which shows that quest completed. But I do not have credit in achievements for killing Phara Dar which is required in the quest.I did file a /bug but came here to check to see if I actually understood it correctly about it using the quest journal to track things.</blockquote>We only use the quest journal to count how many quests you've done for quest-related achievements. We don't use the quest journal to determine things like kills. It would take way too long to define all of the dependencies for every kill and every quest.</blockquote>OK this makes me sad because even though it is retro it really isn't is it? I am going to have to go back and kill mobs I had previously killed for quests like Taking on Trakanon and Fate of Norrrath, not to mention Mythical updates.I have already done this and I am now doing it on my other characters to get myths, it really bums me out that I cannot get credit for what I have done when the quest completion alone should tell the system that these mobs have been killed simply by virtue of the completed flag on the quest.This means that I can't just bring the toon that is best for the raid, I have to cycle through all of them, again, in order to get the updates, again. Very disappointing.

Rothgar

09-11-2009, 08:45 PM

<cite>Schandlich@Blackburrow wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xalmat wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Schandlich@Blackburrow wrote:</cite><blockquote>Would it be out of the realm of possibility to at least see if we are VP flagged? Or Levi flagged? That we have our myth? That should knock off a few of the raid mobs which would be kinda nice.</blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>It would take way too long to define all of the dependencies for every kill and every quest.</blockquote>Especially when you're talking 24 epic quests, some of which have multiple quests as part of the Mythical step (such as Conjuror).</blockquote>But everytime I enter VP, what value is getting checked? Its not to see if I have gained AA for Levi. I had no quests related to him. There must be a "User can enter VP" flag of some sort. Would it be too hard to do that at least? I also do not see the problem with checking to see if a user has their myth to see what they have killed. If I have my Myth, that must mean that I called Pawbuster, VS, Levi and Hoshkar. We are talking about a case statement that would have to run one time.</blockquote>This has been argued in another thread and I really don't want to rehash the discussion in a different thread, so trust me when I say it would be more work than we have time to do.The current achievement system allows us to say "Do X". The system allows us to check to see if you've "Done X" already and this is fairly simple because "X" is constant. The system doesn't support allowing us to say, "If you've done Y or Z or A or B, then you've done X".

Hecula

09-11-2009, 11:59 PM

<cite>Paill@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>You seem to be drastly missing the point. They are already giving you retro achievement for quest you have done. What is the [Removed for Content] difference?What is the point in giving you reto credit for one thing thats trackable and not another?</blockquote>Here is the difference:Quest credit can be given retroactively and the system they are using to do it will be 100% correct. There is no feasible way to redo quests. Hence credit must be given retroactively.Named kills can not be credited correctly - this is what Bratface has just discovered - and it is very easy for people to re-do those kills unlike quests.There you go.My other arguments are based on the fact that I feel giving us something to work towards is healthier for the game than just giving it to us flat out.If you can't understand these arguments I can't help you. Perhaps try harder?

brammator

09-12-2009, 02:59 AM

Is it possible to have an option to stop gaining achievements at AA cap? It would be very helpful for AAxp tracking when you raise the cap.

maddawg138

09-12-2009, 10:21 AM

So the other day i killed Trakanon (again...like 5th or 6th time this xpac) and FINALLY received AA xp for the kill....keep in mind I am only at 191 AA's and have killed him quite a few times this xpac alone, which means I should've received AA credit before but never did. There has to be a bug with Trak alone and giving the correct AA credit when killed. How or what is causing this I do not know.

nikiburny

09-12-2009, 07:59 PM

I see 2 obvious possible solutions, for reasons detailed below:A: start everyone off with NO creditB: count ALL things that have been done, towards creditwith A, the obvious problem is it forces people who want to get all the credits, to go back and do tons of pointless content(which also prevents new people from being able to do many of these things)by only counting some things: you are penalizing people who have already done all these things long ago.example. if I have done 3400 quests, and there's a reward for 1000quests, but only 680 of my quests 'count'.. it's impossible for me to get the 1000quest reward until next year, while someone who is only level 58 will already have it done?the proposed option, of giving some credit to some people: has the flaw of completely neutralizing the 'braging rights', of the achivement system.. instead of "yay, I have achieved the most things", it's "I waited the longest to do the specific things that matter".. this will greatly upset the players who play/do the most stuff.. and isn't the purpose of the whole system, to cater more FOR these people?to the best of my knowledge, logs of every event from the start of eq2, are available.. I understand that parsing millions of lines of text, from thousands of players, for hundreds of events isn't a quick process, but it really shouldn't take terribly long if done properly.. personally, my logs total about 45gigs, and I routinely parse them for things like "a full list of names, for every zone, that I have killed, vs that I gained AA for", so I know what names I'm missing from certain zones. and it takes under a minute to do this: and I play a considerable ammount more then most people.. I don't see any reason this huge ammount of parsing shold take more then a day or two to do(sure, it's a neusance to get the backups out of the bank or whatever).also: what about all the things that CAN'T be(or are very awkward to be) redone? for anything other then 100% retroactive, I forsee a large number of people who play a lot, complaining about tens-hundreds of their rewards not being counted.. resulting in lots of manual consideration by GM's, and/or people quiting due to frustration.I remember about a year ago, trying to petition to get one of my titles back(and fialing).. it took probably 30minutes before I gave up, because it's just not worth it: the problem was just that the GM couldn't locate in the logs, where I acquired the title 4years ago.. as for how the title disapeared in the first place, I have no clue, but I see this as being a similar situation, on a larger scale.

Bratface

09-13-2009, 02:45 AM

Hi Rothgar =)I know I am probably driving you crazy by now, if I am not already on ignore =pBut I was curious if it's posible to use status to track the kills? Many of these mobs give status and that is recorded every time we kill them, even if we are capped on AA or the kill is not needed for a quest. Mostly I am just curious about the different tracking systems and what is traceable and what is not, the mechanics are quite interesting to me. Or is the status kill not recorded at all?edit typo

Sarriss

09-13-2009, 04:20 AM

<cite>Bratface wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hi Rothgar =)I know I am probably driving you crazy by now, if I am not already on ignore =pBut I was curious if it's posible to use status to track the kills? Many of these mobs give status and that is recorded every time we kill them, even if we are capped on AA or the kill is not needed for a quest. Mostly I am just curious about the different tracking systems and what is traceable and what is not, the mechanics are quite interesting to me. Or is the status kill not recorded at all?edit typo</blockquote>status is tracked as a total, when tou kill a mob that gives status (weather or not you get AA from it) in concerns of the status, the game only keep records of of the fact that you recieved status by adding the amount awarded to your current total (and your guild total) after that the status system does not care. The only systems that do are the AA system (did you get aa fro that kill?) and the quest system (quest update? notes on this one below)And for thoes of you who want to have the system dig through your quest journals and see if you've had to kill X mob to get y update when checking for achevement updates, please no.Reason being it'll be a monster to code the check statments properly (you do want them to do it properly, right) and will possably take a few months because of the variying amounts of updates and possable names needed for quests, and if they could get somthing like that coded in a resonable time, the freeking servers would be down for days just going through the journals, and character files. I don't wanna think of the side of their database. *shudder*I'ed rather them making more stuff for the game , and to actually play the game, thank you very much. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" />and my last 2 cp work of thoughts on this.. Rothgar, your missing an option; "I don't care, where's the beer."(This post has been brought to you by Miller, Bud, and a couple of other domestics I just can't remember the name of.)

Rothgar

09-13-2009, 04:24 AM

Bratface

09-13-2009, 11:39 AM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bratface wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hi Rothgar =)I know I am probably driving you crazy by now, if I am not already on ignore =pBut I was curious if it's posible to use status to track the kills? Many of these mobs give status and that is recorded every time we kill them, even if we are capped on AA or the kill is not needed for a quest. Mostly I am just curious about the different tracking systems and what is traceable and what is not, the mechanics are quite interesting to me. Or is the status kill not recorded at all?edit typo</blockquote>Status is not recorded because it works like XP. You gain status every time you kill the mob regardles of whether or not you've already killed it.</blockquote>Fair enough, thanks for the answer =)

Erithe

09-13-2009, 12:55 PM

I clicked the poll and then had a long discussion about it with a fellow gamer who changed my mind about things.It would very much suck not to be able to get the Achievements for things my two lvl 80's have done (per what Rothgar said in his initial post). Though, I must say, the Tradeskill items ought to be retroactive, but I'm really thinking that most of the player related Achievements really shouldn't be. Yes, it can be hard to slog through all that content, but if you've done it, and you wouldn't get the Achievement ANYWAY because you're 80? um, not so good. I'd rather have the option of doing something again and getting a new reward for it. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" />

Queen Alexandria

09-13-2009, 08:29 PM

I think you're confused on what retroactive means. Retroactive means they will go back and give you credit for what you've done... the opposite would be to not give you credit for what you've already done in the game. I think it's bad. Why? Cause if I have to redo all the stuff I've done im going to go crazy. Seriously, not getting credit for the claymore quest and all the things I killed in between or that Darathar kill I did the other day or the Angler kill I did 4 years ago? There is enough content in the game for me to visit of which I have not visited yet than for me to have to go and revisit all the things I've already visited. Thank you, retroactive for the win.

Hecula

09-13-2009, 08:39 PM

<cite>Zenaide@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think you're confused on what retroactive means. Retroactive means they will go back and give you credit for what you've done... the opposite would be to not give you credit for what you've already done in the game. </blockquote>I think they understand what retroactive means. The problem that people are realizing is that if you were at AA cap and you killed something, it won't be credited. So it's a flawed retroactive system.For example, let's say you were capped at 140AA and you did all of VP and Trak after you were capped. Then when TSO came along, you didn't revisit VP or Trak - you busted through quests and got to 200AA, then you killed Zarrakon, Anashti Sul and Ykesha. In this (unlikely) scenario, you would not receive credit for VP, Trak, Zarrakon, Anashti Sul or Ykesha, even though you may have killed those things many many times.So it becomes based on luck - were you lucky enough to kill something while not at cap? Were you lucky enough to kill something while not grey (remember, if it was grey you didn't earn AA for it and it won't be tracked either)?Most people will see this as a bug. Without extensive warnings - "You will not receive credit for an Achivement unless you also received AA for it" - many people will /petition for missing achivements. Even with extensive warnings, there will be a lot that don't read them or understand them and will still /petition.

Erithe

09-13-2009, 09:54 PM

Yep. I understood what was being said, and, after thinking about it ... if the retroactive isn't going to be a true retroaction, then... not such a good thing.

Bright_Morn

09-14-2009, 12:05 AM

My issue is I have killed things that I no longer have the opportunity to kill. That is why I want retroactive, since I have already killed them, and CANNOT currently kill them again I want to keep the credit that I have already earned.

kreepr

09-14-2009, 11:01 AM

<cite>Hecula wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Zenaide@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think you're confused on what retroactive means. Retroactive means they will go back and give you credit for what you've done... the opposite would be to not give you credit for what you've already done in the game. </blockquote>I think they understand what retroactive means. The problem that people are realizing is that if you were at AA cap and you killed something, it won't be credited. So it's a flawed retroactive system.For example, let's say you were capped at 140AA and you did all of VP and Trak after you were capped. Then when TSO came along, you didn't revisit VP or Trak - you busted through quests and got to 200AA, then you killed Zarrakon, Anashti Sul and Ykesha. In this (unlikely) scenario, you would not receive credit for VP, Trak, Zarrakon, Anashti Sul or Ykesha, even though you may have killed those things many many times.So it becomes based on luck - were you lucky enough to kill something while not at cap? Were you lucky enough to kill something while not grey (remember, if it was grey you didn't earn AA for it and it won't be tracked either)?Most people will see this as a bug. Without extensive warnings - "You will not receive credit for an Achivement unless you also received AA for it" - many people will /petition for missing achivements. Even with extensive warnings, there will be a lot that don't read them or understand them and will still /petition.</blockquote>Because we don't get credit for a few you don't want credit at all.?.?.? Well I for one would rather go back to get the few names I have killed gray and get credit rather then go back for all of them. If you don't get credit for some well there is your excuse to go back and relive the content. There you go, go do VP or Trak again for the fun and to get your credit. Luck has nothing to do with it. Really it's cut and dry if you go kill something you either do or don't get credit. Your either caped or not. Luck has nothing to do with that.People will complain about anything, so whats new??? Many will get it and many will not just like the rest of the game.....

Pitt Hammerfi

09-14-2009, 12:45 PM

People are using the words "Have to go back" alot in this thread.You don't have to do anything, this is a new system, if it says "Go and kill Trak" - then go and kill him. Don't expect that because you have killed him before you should get the credit in a NEW SYSTEM.

Mystfit

09-14-2009, 01:00 PM

<cite>Taliesan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>My issue is I have killed things that I no longer have the opportunity to kill. That is why I want retroactive, since I have already killed them, and CANNOT currently kill them again I want to keep the credit that I have already earned.</blockquote>This would be where I would worry, not getting credit for non-redoable things, but do we know if anything is currently that way?

Yavie

09-18-2009, 11:21 AM

Back when I was in a raid guild, I killed a lot of mobs. Now that I am no longer in a raid guild I don't get to kill all those mobs. Yes, I want credit for the mobs I have killed in the past.

Sar

09-20-2009, 02:27 AM

Give credit where credit is due... if you say it keeps track up to 200 AA then I'd guess most kills after 200 are repeats so.. I don't think people with 200 AA are going to miss out on too much.With that said, I've pretty much played the same toon since launch and over the years I have managed to get into a few raids here and there. I am a causal player who when and if I have the time/opportunity will gladly join a raid. So, raid kill credit is a big thing for me... I'll be really disappointed to miss out on those achievements. Even if I miss out on some kills for being capped, which atm I am not... I would still be ok missing out on a small portion of kills rather than having a completely blank achievement record. There really is no sense in feeling upset about the current tracking system, that is what it is... I really don't think because some players will miss out on some achievements we all should start over... however it seems to be popular to whine about things we can not change and blame someone else for it.

Sar

09-20-2009, 02:45 AM

And I am not sure if this is the right area to post this but cosmecitally I was expecting more out of the achievement window. Some of the text is blurred and hard to read... I like the pictures however the text and how it is arranged seems so basic. I think we need a nice graphic UI overhaul.

Deveryn

09-20-2009, 05:17 AM

<cite>Pitt Hammerfist wrote:</cite><blockquote>People are using the words "Have to go back" alot in this thread.You don't have to do anything, this is a new system, if it says "Go and kill Trak" - then go and kill him. Don't expect that because you have killed him before you should get the credit in a NEW SYSTEM.</blockquote>You don't get it. The issue is not the new system. It's the broken old system. If a bunch of people were to go kill Trak today for the first time, a bunch of people would get AA credit and Achievement credit when it goes live. Those with 200 AA would get nothing.

Sar

09-20-2009, 12:10 PM

<cite>Korrupt@Najena wrote:</cite><blockquote>They aren't gonna scrap the whole system. It's actually fine the way it is but people are crying that if they personally dont get credit for every single thing in game they've done, nobody should get credit for anything. It's childish really, take the credit that they are capable of giving you and fill in the rest. Complaining that since you have to redo a few names and POIs you want everyone to redo all content is nothing more than a temper tantrum.</blockquote>I couldn't agree more.

Sar

09-20-2009, 12:12 PM

<cite>Deveryn@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Pitt Hammerfist wrote:</cite><blockquote>People are using the words "Have to go back" alot in this thread.You don't have to do anything, this is a new system, if it says "Go and kill Trak" - then go and kill him. Don't expect that because you have killed him before you should get the credit in a NEW SYSTEM.</blockquote>You don't get it. The issue is not the new system. It's the broken old system. If a bunch of people were to go kill Trak today for the first time, a bunch of people would get AA credit and Achievement credit when it goes live. Those with 200 AA would get nothing.</blockquote>And while that being a big issue, it can't be fixed either.... I think that sucks, I agree, but frankly why punish everyone and start over? I much rather have whatever kills and achievements I can get that got counted than starting over.

Cambrie

09-22-2009, 09:28 AM

Hi, Quick question:Does this mean (in either scenario) that if/when this goes live, we will have AA experience taken away and have to re-aquire it? In other words, if I have 183 AA's now will have have less if/when this goes live?Thanks

Aneova

09-22-2009, 09:44 AM

<cite>Cambrie wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hi, Quick question:Does this mean (in either scenario) that if/when this goes live, we will have AA experience taken away and have to re-aquire it? In other words, if I have 183 AA's now will have have less if/when this goes live?Thanks</blockquote>AA's (Alternate Advancements) boost your characters stats and class abilities.Achievements are fun little fluff things that are just that, fluff they give you appearance armor, titles and sometimes little house items.Your 183 AA's would remain untouched when the new system goes live.