dont take away our racial CA's.

[Kunaak]

<p>you guys keep nerfing things and changing anything people really want for DPS, and keep lowering our DPS. is now actually taking 1 CA away from everyone really necessary?</p><p>it doesnt seem fair to me, its already hard enough to maintain DPS as a DPS class, without missing another source of DPS.</p><p>when I see the race options for each class and such, it becomes really clear, that theres no actual seperation or thing that makes one race better then another, when choosing a class. ok, I can go with that... an ogre guardian should be more suited to being a guardian then say a Fae... but this racial thing makes it so pretty much every race is exactly like the next. to me, that doesnt make sense, but I can ignore it.</p><p>but atleast leave our racial CA's as option to choose if we want it.</p><p>my CA is opening means for my combat art chain, it helps maintain a consist DPS.</p><p>gaining 40 STR and 200 HP isnt gonna make up for that.</p><p>just cause theres 12,000 dark elf assassins, and ogre shadowknights doesnt mean I should be the one paying for it by losing a means of DPS. leave it as a inate ability, or optional choice on the racial abilities.</p>

[thial]

<p>I have to agree with this, ogres on live have a melle attack that does not consume power. I personally found this CA very usefull, it's not a very big hit but It's good to get a reinforcment triger for those oop/low on power situations. I was kind of disapointed when I didn't see it on test. And to add the +2% deflection/shield affectivness is kinda lame should be bumped up a bit.</p>

[Gungo]

<p>I actually think this was a good idea. It has been stated many times the game has to much of a spamming button mashing feel without much meaning to many combat arts. Of course peopel will find a use for any button they can smash but the actual ability was extremely weak.</p><p>I also think they should change the archtype/KOS AA's so they do not add seperate combat arts but instead add thier damage and effect to existing combat arts. This way to make combat arts more meaningful and stronger instead of having a bunch of low damage (300-800) combat arts with poor hit rates (25% easier instead of 40% easier).</p><p>In actuality the new racials are pretty well balanced except for the stun/fear immunity buffs which should be changed into 2% stun and 2% fear resist respectively. Those buffs are still a tad to powerful.</p>

[Maroger]

<p><cite>Kunaak wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>you guys keep nerfing things and changing anything people really want for DPS, and keep lowering our DPS. is now actually taking 1 CA away from everyone really necessary?</p><p>it doesnt seem fair to me, its already hard enough to maintain DPS as a DPS class, without missing another source of DPS.</p><p>when I see the race options for each class and such, it becomes really clear, that theres no actual seperation or thing that makes one race better then another, when choosing a class. ok, I can go with that... an ogre guardian should be more suited to being a guardian then say a Fae... but this racial thing makes it so pretty much every race is exactly like the next. to me, that doesnt make sense, but I can ignore it.</p><p>but atleast leave our racial CA's as option to choose if we want it.</p><p>my CA is opening means for my combat art chain, it helps maintain a consist DPS.</p><p>gaining 40 STR and 200 HP isnt gonna make up for that.</p><p>just cause theres 12,000 dark elf assassins, and ogre shadowknights doesnt mean I should be the one paying for it by losing a means of DPS. leave it as a inate ability, or optional choice on the racial abilities.</p></blockquote><p>I think they should leave them as they are.</p><p>Heck Sarnaks lost their breath weapon which was a big attraction when the race was put in. SOE even advertised it as an attraction -- POOF GONE at the whim of a developer.</p><p>DE get a stupid recall/transport spell which is useless if you solo as they force you to target a friend - suppose you have no friend online -= Again they need to retstore SHADOW SLIP or at lest make this stupid spell good for a safe location. It should work like ESCAPE but have a longer reuse.</p>

[feldon30]

<p><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I actually think this was a good idea. It has been stated many times the game has to much of a spamming button mashing feel without much meaning to many combat arts.</p></blockquote><p>So you think taking away combat arts from racials and making racials so bland as to be completely unimaginative is really part of some overarching effort of Spell Consolidation? Wow, you've just added two negatives together. I don't think two wrongs make a right.</p><p>There are examples of Spell Consolidation that I think make sense. I mean every Dirge self-buff that doesn't use a concentration slot -- Under what circumstance would you not have those cast? I cast all those and then pick and choose concentration-slot-eating buffs depending on situation. But what they were going to merge down to with the fighter revamp would have been crazy.</p>

[Gungo]

<p><cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I actually think this was a good idea. It has been stated many times the game has to much of a spamming button mashing feel without much meaning to many combat arts.</p></blockquote><p>So you think taking away combat arts from racials and making racials so bland as to be completely unimaginative is really part of some overarching effort of Spell Consolidation? Wow, you've just added two negatives together. I don't think two wrongs make a right.</p><p>There are examples of Spell Consolidation that I think make sense. I mean every Dirge self-buff that doesn't use a concentration slot -- Under what circumstance would you not have those cast? I cast all those and then pick and choose concentration-slot-eating buffs depending on situation. But what they were going to merge down to with the fighter revamp would have been crazy.</p></blockquote><p>Why yes because racials were ALWAYS intended to be have little to no impact on class choice. In the beginning the only racial choice we got was which toon has the best stat bonus. This was revamped to give choices which ultimately was less combat oriented then what we have now. Then it was revamped and given a bunch of combat oriented abilites that would make racial choices have alot more meaning but ultimately made racial choice important to class choice. Now finally minus a few exceptions racial choice has little barring on class choice although what you call bland and unimaginitive I call balanced and with little class choice bias. What you see as negative i clearly see as a positive that was Always the intention since the racial choice inception. EQ2 was clearly labeled and built around the idea that any race could be any class without the bias on class choice that eq1 had.</p>

[Hogatha]

<p>I've seen no explanation as to WHY they are doing away with these from the devs.  I thought they brought a little unique-ness to each race, and actually made sense.  Were they overpowered?  I think not.  Especially considering each race got one.  It just boosted dps and gave a little more flavor (gnome clockwork army, sarnak fire breath for example) to otherwise dull and boring attacks.</p><p>Do what you must with the other traits, but please leave the CA's in.  This coming from a Fae Coercer who should have been a healer after the fact.</p>

[Korrupt]

<p>People dont want flavor, they want those abilities. If all people wanted was flavor to each race soe could add fun spells for visuals and everyone would jump for joy. Dont pretend people are asking for fluff.</p><p>P.S. make faefall and/or at least glide toggleable please <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Xethren]

<p>Aye I would like to keep my firebreath.</p><p>These new racials are very dumb and pretty much make all the races too similar. I also dont like how the 'racial stats' are trying to shoehorn each race to be a specific class archtype.</p>

[Noaani]

<p><cite>Maroger wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>DE get a stupid recall/transport spell which is useless if you solo as they force you to target a friend - suppose you have no friend online</blockquote><p>Umm, this ability is nothing more than a call of the tinkerer.</p><p>You target a group member in the same zone as you, cast the ability, and you end up standing where they are.</p><p>You should probably test things before commenting on them.</p>

[Kunaak]

<p>oh my god, I didnt even think of my sarnak defiler....</p><p>man, if that guy lost fire breath, that charactors history, its taken forever to get him to 60 already, and it feels nearly impossible to kill anything as is.</p><p>leveling a healer, is like going into war, but they take away your weapon and tell you to use harsh language, and taking away your grenades, and telling you to throw kittens at the enemy. healers do next to nothing for damage as is... which is frustrating as hell, cause everything kills me so [Removed for Content] easy already.</p><p>so if my defilers losing another means of damage, that toon history. its hard enough to level him as is...</p><p>leave the CA's alone, please.</p>

[denmom]

<p>Add another for keeping the racial CAs.</p><p>I have a Ratonga Paladin, Ratonga Swash, and Ratonga Ranger.  Each of these uses Poisonous Bite.  I use these every fight.  Sure, it doesn't give a lot of damage, but that poison dot can help out especially in a long fight.  I use the racial CA every fight, it's in the cycle of CAs/spells...when all of them are down and cycling back up, the racial goes off, by that time I have enough cycled back up.</p><p>My Half Elf Warden has the physical debuff, Piercing Stab.  It lowers the mitigation to all physical attacks by 934 at L80 as well as does a bit of piercing damage.  It may not be a lot in comparison to what actual classes do, but when taking down names in instances and raiding, every little bit helps.</p><p>My guild has a Kerra Berserker, and he uses the Kerran debuff racial which is very similar to the Half Elf Piercing Stab in every fight.</p><p>My husband's Halfling Warden uses his debuff which affects the dps of mobs in every fight.</p><p>A raiding Dark Elf Warlock friend uses Fury of Innoruuk during big fights in raids and in instances.</p><p>My husband's Dark Elf Paladin uses Fury of Innoruuk during big fights with names or groups.</p><p>I've asked raiders I know if they use their racials, and out of little over 40 folks they all used them at least once during a raid.</p><p>I'm going to be making an Illusionist soon, and was considering either a Ratonga or Dark Elf.  The Ratonga because there aren't that many of that race/class combo on Unrest, and the Dark Elf because of the Fury of Innoruuk.  The same considerations for the Warlock I've been wanting to make.</p><p>I have to say that the racial offensives are used quite a lot... please reconsider.</p>

[Korrupt]

<p>The more you show that the racials were useful the more you hurt your case. They are doing this so that specific race's dont have any significant advantage over others.</p>

[Krooner]

<p><cite>Korrupt@Najena wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The more you show that the racials were useful the more you hurt your case. They are doing this so that specific race's dont have any significant advantage over others.</p></blockquote><p>There was no single racial trait that gave any class a <span style="text-decoration: underline;">"significant advantage over others"</span></p><p>There were some that based on peoples play styles made them more desirable than others but that does not equate to an unfair advantage.</p>

[Korrupt]

<p>Wrong, a mage with fury of innoruk had an advantage over one without. A scout with pitiful plea had an advantage over one without. If these abilities made no difference whatsoever than nobody would care that they are gone. The devs are doing this apparently so nobody chooses a race based on what the race offers them for combat. That being said I don't know why the fear and stun immunities are still around as they could be considered every bit as useful as the previously mentioned abilities.</p>

[Krooner]

<p><cite>Korrupt@Najena wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Wrong, a mage with fury of innoruk had an advantage over one without. A scout with pitiful plea had an advantage over one without. If these abilities made no difference whatsoever than nobody would care that they are gone. The devs are doing this apparently so nobody chooses a race based on what the race offers them for combat. That being said I don't know why the fear and stun immunities are still around as they could be considered every bit as useful as the previously mentioned abilities.</p></blockquote><p>Any advantage based on what you have outlined was as I said NOT A <span style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline">" significant advantage over others"</span></p><p> Were they useful yeah.  Were they game  breaking?  Not even closeBut I agree the stun and fear trait will be considered over the top.  If your going to keep them in then let every class have a choice of 1 immunity.</p>

[Korrupt]

<p>Significant enough that a whole lot of players are whining about it. They may not be game breaking but apparently they were strong enough that people dont want to play the race without them, that's significant. And it's exactly what soe is trying to get away from, specific races gaining popularity based on a skill.</p>

[Ocello]

<p><cite>Korrupt@Najena wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>That being said I don't know why the fear and stun immunities are still around as they could be considered every bit as useful as the previously mentioned abilities.</p></blockquote><p>The fear and stun immunities are basically worthless tho.  They changed it now so that it will not BREAK a fear or stun.  It is only a 10-second prevent, just as the description has always said tbh.  The new immunity will be useful maybe once or twice per raid, maybe, and that is all.</p><p>btw I tested this out on Test server.</p>

[Gungo]

<p><cite>Ocello wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Korrupt@Najena wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>That being said I don't know why the fear and stun immunities are still around as they could be considered every bit as useful as the previously mentioned abilities.</p></blockquote><p>The fear and stun immunities are basically worthless tho.  They changed it now so that it will not BREAK a fear or stun.  It is only a 10-second prevent, just as the description has always said tbh.  The new immunity will be useful maybe once or twice per raid, maybe, and that is all.</p><p>btw I tested this out on Test server.</p></blockquote><p>The fear has always been this way the stun however was castable while stunned. Although i still think i should be 2% stun/fear resist respectable since that effect is largely useless.</p>

[thial]

<p><cite>Korrupt@Najena wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Significant enough that a whole lot of players are whining about it. They may not be game breaking but apparently they were strong enough that people dont want to play the race without them, that's significant. And it's exactly what soe is trying to get away from, specific races gaining popularity based on a skill.</p></blockquote><p>"And it's exactly what soe is trying to get away from, specific races gaining popularity based on a skill." Please point me to a post that explains this, I'm not saying that it hasn't been said just I don't recall this. I think race should have everything to do with your class but not game breaking to where if I made a ogre wizzy I wont have as much base int or w/e but with gear it would make up for it. Races should be uniqe and not just in looks, and with this update i find your statement even less true, espciallay when you look at the stuff boli was so kind to right up.  But I also think that certain classes shouldn't be able to be certain races.</p>

[Ashmen_Skimmerhorn]

<p><cite>Jdark@Everfrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>.....  But I also think that certain classes shouldn't be able to be certain races.</p></blockquote><p>The game was buit and advertised on the basis of any race being able to be any class.</p>

[feldon30]

Ok, so lets take away all the unique traits of each class. Let's take away feign death from Brawlers. Let's take away stealth attacks from Scouts. Let's take away power regen from Enchanters. Let's take away fighter pets from Summoners. I mean choosing a class means you're going to get some unique abilities, and class balance is supposed to make all 24 classes somehow desirable. Race balance is supposed to make all 19 races desirable. There is nothing wrong with unique, interesting traits for each race. Making everything so bland and cookie cutter take away from the gameplay without making races a good choice. We'll be getting race change tokens soon, so folks will be able to decide. No matter how infinitesimal they make the differences, there will always be min/maxers who will say X class goes with Y race. The point is some races had overpowered abilities and others didn't have anything special. If race was everything, then every scout would be a Ratonga, every mage would be an Erudite, and every fighter would be an Ogre.

[LordPazuzu]

<p>Bah, there's no good reason to be removing racial CAs.  Race <span style="text-decoration: underline;"><em>should</em></span> matter.  An ogre shouldn't be as good a mage as an Erudite nor should an Erudite be the worlds best assassin.  Leave the flavor and the advantages in the game.  Things like this are part of what ultimately sucks the fun out of the game.</p>

[Paddyo]

<p><cite>Meaghan@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Bah, there's no good reason to be removing racial CAs.  Race <span style="text-decoration: underline;"><em>should</em></span> matter.  An ogre shouldn't be as good a mage as an Erudite nor should an Erudite be the worlds best assassin.  Leave the flavor and the advantages in the game.  Things like this are part of what ultimately sucks the fun out of the game.</p></blockquote><p>OMG.  If race DID matter, or there was rhyme or reason to any of the racial abilities, sure.  Unfortunately, that's not the case.  In EQ live, you rolled an Erudite Paladin, you knew you were taking an uphill fight because the race wasn't built for that, although there were some faction advantages.  Things like this <em>mattered</em> in the old game. </p><p>EQ2 is nothing more than a collection of people whining about how unfair this is or that is.  Raiders whining about how unfair it is people who can't kill content can pay to loot raid items.  Transmuters whining about how its gonna be cheaper and easier for people to level transmuting once the changes go into effect.  Crafters complaining that even though they are level 80, they are gonna have to craft 1000 items to get an achievement. <em>EVERYBODY</em> whining about how Dark Elf Assassins have had an unfair advantage FOREVER because of short sighted development people.  (Or praising it, I supposed, if they happened to be Dark Elf Assassins.) Boo F*$%^#$ Hoo.</p><p>This game trashed racial uniqueness out of the gate.  If I want to be a Dwarven Shadowknight, I can be, even though the entire principle is sickening to the Dwarven race. If I want to be an Ogre Druid, my goodness, I CAN be.  Think about that.  A tree hugging Ogre.  It goes againest every idea we thought we knew about Ogres AND druids. So along with the whining and complaining, we have a game that is what it is.</p><p>But please, please, please....THINK before you post something like "race <em><span style="text-decoration: underline;">should</span></em> matter."  Yeah, it should, but in this game it never has. Other than being something to <em>complain </em>about, it doesn't matter for much of anything.</p>

[scalzo]

<p>Exactly. It is going to pigeon hole alot of fighters to Barb or Ogre. They should remove this trait or give the other races that lean toward fighter similar abilities.</p><p>Barb / Ogre         Stun resistance</p><p>Troll / Iksar         Fear resistance</p><p>Dwarf / Froglok  Knock back resistance</p><p>Get some sort of balance.</p>

[Enever]

<p>I'd like to keep my sarnak fire breath as well.</p>