No play Lots of pay!

[Wanabeelee]

<p>I would strongly suggest that you call to make sure your account is canceled.  Sony's "NO REFUND" policy protects them from mistakes they may have made.  No matter what the reason for the error, they will not refund anything.  A 7 year member of everquest I/II dont matter.  I am unwilling to do business with a company who is unwilling to help one of thier clients.  This will be the last charge SOE will see from me or any in my family for any games hosted by SOE.</p><p>Just a friendly warning on how SOE treats its members.</p>

[Diabalo]

<p>should have played WoW</p>

[Wanabeelee]

<p>Do they treat members better?  Was looking for something to play now that health and time is returning.  Was thinking about DDO.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p><cite>Wanabeelee wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Do they treat members better?  Was looking for something to play now that health and time is returning.  Was thinking about DDO.</p></blockquote><p>Nope. They're a business just like everyone else.</p><p>Also, In B4 Lock.</p>

[bryldan]

<p><cite>Wanabeelee wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I would strongly suggest that you call to make sure your account is canceled.  Sony's "NO REFUND" policy protects them from mistakes they may have made.  No matter what the reason for the error, they will not refund anything.  A 7 year member of everquest I/II dont matter.  I am unwilling to do business with a company who is unwilling to help one of thier clients.  This will be the last charge SOE will see from me or any in my family for any games hosted by SOE.</p><p>Just a friendly warning on how SOE treats its members.</p></blockquote><p>Obviously you didnt get something you wanted that they otherwise do not give and you throw this hissy fit. That is all i can draw from what you are saying if its more than that then please by all means elaborate otherwise you are just whinning in my eyes and i am sure most other ppls eyes also.</p><p>One other thing GL with the other games because they are all out for one thing MONEY and usually CS is always a forethought on the spending lists usually you will have horrible CS.</p>

[Ag0ny]

<p><cite>bryldan wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Obviously you didnt get something you wanted that they otherwise do not give and you throw this hissy fit. That is all i can draw from what you are saying if its more than that then please by all means elaborate otherwise you are just whinning in my eyes and i am sure most other ppls eyes also.</p><p>One other thing GL with the other games because they are all out for one thing MONEY and usually CS is always a forethought on the spending lists usually you will have horrible CS.</p></blockquote><p>You are correct.  I didn't get a refund after not being in the game for near a year.  Was not asking for a refund from that date just the recent charges. </p><p>As for as being in business to make "MONEY",  You can do that without ripping people off.  I know I have.  How is it a better business move to not refund $60.00 over lossing a costomer who has been paying for 5 accounts from 1996?</p>

[Wanabeelee]

<p>My bad wrong account.</p>

[CraigH]

<p>So, you had an active subscription and you didn't cancel it when you "stopped playing" so you expect a refund?  You're at fault, not SOE.</p>

[Ahlana]

<p>One time I accidently activated EQ1 when I wanted EQ2. CS was very nice and refunded me the money on that one /shrug</p>

[Wanabeelee]

<p>In truth I had asked for all accounts on my Credit Card to be canceled.  Guess it didn't happen.  "Ahana" Maybe I should have got my wife to call... *smile*</p>

[Jrral]

<p>So, let's see. You didn't cancel your account. It's your responsibility to know what accounts you have, it's not CS's job to figure that out. And then you didn't bother checking your credit-card statements for unexpected charges. For an entire year. As if you were never at risk of someone out there using your credit-card number to fraudulently charge something. And now that you come asking to cancel your account, you're blaming CS for cancelling your account as of the date you asked for it to be cancelled? I'll be over here boggling.</p>

[Kendayar]

It's a recurring subscription. It even says recurring on your subscription info. You just need to make sure that you cancel before you quit the game. OR get a game card. it's like prepaid time for your account.

[Levatino]

<p><cite>Kendayar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>get a game card. it's like prepaid time for your account.</blockquote><p>well to be honest if you live in Holland such a card is not easy to get.. And i know, cause I'm a gameshop owner..</p><p>Wow card are available on every corner but SOE cards..</p>

[Wanabeelee]

<p><cite>Jrral@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So, let's see. You didn't cancel your account. It's your responsibility to know what accounts you have, it's not CS's job to figure that out. And then you didn't bother checking your credit-card statements for unexpected charges. For an entire year. As if you were never at risk of someone out there using your credit-card number to fraudulently charge something. And now that you come asking to cancel your account, you're blaming CS for cancelling your account as of the date you asked for it to be cancelled? I'll be over here boggling.</p></blockquote><p>I took a short cut to remebering all my accounts by calling Cust. Serv. and asking them to stop billing me.  Yes I dont look at my Credit-card statements for unexpected charges. ( why I got married) And I did ask to cancel my accounts (again) and I do expect the latest charges to be droped as the accounts have not been used for a year and the charges are days old. </p><p>Any company that charges for 3 months of service when they have been informed that the customer dont want it and refusses because 4 days have gone by of witch the service was never used?  Tell me how that makes since in your world?</p><p>But to get back on subject. (It might be a good idea if you are paying by credit card and suspending your account to check, double check, tatoo a note to your hand that in 3 months watch your statement for that sneaky bill to come around, cause you want get it back if it happens.)(evil grin)(and pray you're not paying for a year)</p>

[Jrral]

<p><cite>Wanabeelee wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I took a short cut to remebering all my accounts by calling Cust. Serv. and asking them to stop billing me.  Yes I dont look at my Credit-card statements for unexpected charges. ( why I got married) And I did ask to cancel my accounts (again) and I do expect the latest charges to be droped as the accounts have not been used for a year and the charges are days old. </p></blockquote><p>Odds on CS simply doesn't normally take the time to run a full database search to find all accounts associated with a given credit-card number and then check each one to determine whether you're authorized to cancel it or not (you wouldn't, for instance, be authorized to cancel your wife's account just because she bills it to the same joint credit card you use for yours). They'd just terminate billing for the account you gave them, and giving them a complete list is your responsibility. As for not checking your statements, in this day and age of identity theft and credit-card fraud that's a good way to end up with your cards max'd out and you with no clue why.</p><p>It takes a minute, maybe less, to log onto your Station account and clear your billing information. It takes a few minutes at most to scan your credit-card statements for unexpected charges, and that's only prudent to protect yourself from many things unrelated to games. You didn't bother doing either. Man up to it, it's not CS that dropped the ball here.</p>

[Wanabeelee]

<p>Any company that charges for 3 months of service when they have been informed that the customer dont want it and refusses because 4 days have gone by of witch the service was never used?  Tell me how that makes since in your world?</p><p>You not going to touch this part?</p><p>Tell me this.  I charge $125.00 an hour for network services.  It would be the same as someone calling me and making an appoint me on monday for friday.  On thursday they cancel the call.  Is it fair to bill the person $125.00?  No service was used. Smart business would be to not charge the $125.00 min, and not upset the client, so that you get future business from them.</p><p>And this is just a warning for people who pay multi month charges who might want to take a brake from the game.  It's happed to me.  I've paid for a year of not playing.  Lesson learned.  No worries.  That last $60.00 charged less than a month ago was the only thing I was asking back.  If SOE dont want to return it, that's fine too.  I just dont do business with people / companys like that. For $60.00 they ensured that the five accounts from 1996 to current will be my last.</p>

[Noaani]

<p><cite>Wanabeelee wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>In truth I had asked for all accounts on my Credit Card to be canceled.  Guess it didn't happen.  "Ahana" Maybe I should have got my wife to call... *smile*</blockquote><p>You should have canceled each subscription individually.</p><p>Its your fault. SoEs no refund policy is fairly standard among MMOs (try and find one that doesn't have a similar policy), and is becoming standard for all internet based software products.</p><p>While it does suck, its just how it has always been.</p>

[Kotomi]

<p><cite>Wanabeelee wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Any company that charges for 3 months of service when they have been informed that the customer dont want it and refusses because 4 days have gone by of witch the service was never used?  Tell me how that makes since in your world?</p><p>...</p><p>Tell me this.  I charge $125.00 an hour for network services.  It would be the same as someone calling me and making an appoint me on monday for friday.  On thursday they cancel the call.  Is it fair to bill the person $125.00?  No service was used. Smart business would be to not charge the $125.00 min, and not upset the client, so that you get future business from them.</p></blockquote><p>SOE only charges for 3 months of service because you told them to, there are 1 month subscriptions. And if you had canceled the subscription the proper way it wouldn't have been a problem.</p><p>No, it would not be fair to bill said person $125. It would be fair if they call the next wednesday and tell you that they had changed their mind, which is much more similar to what you're describing.</p>

[Dasein]

<p>If managing subscriptions is such an issue, I would suggest you try a free to play game, like Free Realms, as you won't need to worry about subscription cost, and you can decide how much money you wish to spend on additional content.</p>

[Bakual]

<p><cite>Levatino wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Kendayar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>get a game card. it's like prepaid time for your account.</blockquote><p>well to be honest if you live in Holland such a card is not easy to get.. And i know, cause I'm a gameshop owner..</p><p>Wow card are available on every corner but SOE cards..</p></blockquote><p>Well, to be honest it's as easy as visiting <a href="http://www.paybycash.com/soe/codelist.php" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.paybycash.com/soe/codelist.php</a> and buy the card there. You don't get a physical card shipped but the code on it emailed to you. Which of course is even better and faster <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>It's not THAT hard <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Dragowulf]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Wanabeelee wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Do they treat members better?  Was looking for something to play now that health and time is returning.  Was thinking about DDO.</p></blockquote><p>Nope. They're a business just like everyone else.</p><p>Also, In B4 Lock.</p></blockquote><h1>QFT</h1>

[Levatino]

<p><cite>Bakual wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Levatino wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Kendayar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>get a game card. it's like prepaid time for your account.</blockquote><p>well to be honest if you live in Holland such a card is not easy to get.. And i know, cause I'm a gameshop owner..</p><p>Wow card are available on every corner but SOE cards..</p></blockquote><p>Well, to be honest it's as easy as visiting <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.paybycash.com/soe/codelist.php" target="_blank">http://www.paybycash.com/soe/codelist.php</a> and buy the card there. You don't get a physical card shipped but the code on it emailed to you. Which of course is even better and faster <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p><p>It's not THAT hard <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>true, and sure a reminder! thanks for showing</p><p>but as a gameshop-owner I sure want the physical cards to be available as well...</p>

[madha]

<p>Just call your credit card and report it a as fraudulent charge =).  Most credit cards will support full refund for service based trasnactions if no service was recieved.</p>

[Dasein]

<p><cite>madhatr wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Just call your credit card and report it a as fraudulent charge =).  Most credit cards will support full refund for service based trasnactions if no service was recieved.</p></blockquote><p>Except service was received, he just decided not to use that service.</p>

[Viron_X]

<p><cite>madhatr wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Just call your credit card and report it a as fraudulent charge =).  Most credit cards will support full refund for service based trasnactions if no service was recieved.</p></blockquote><p>If you don't pay any attention to what's on your bill, I doubt you noticed in time to take action of any sort... What a terrible idea. Look at your bills! Better yet, don't. Some small-time crook will be very happy later down the line.</p>

[Wingrider01]

<p><cite>madhatr wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Just call your credit card and report it a as fraudulent charge =).  Most credit cards will support full refund for service based trasnactions if no service was recieved.</p></blockquote><p>That would be falsification of a complaint, credit card companies are getting more stirngent on those types of calls. Add to the fact if the player ever decides to go bank, he/she will still be liable for the back subscription costs before they would consider allowing them another account. BTW service was recieved, not using it has no bearing on the matter. Really find it hard to believe that someone would let a recocurring cost ride on an a credit card and continue to pay it without investigating what it is and why.</p>

[Barx]

<p>You pay for access to the game.</p><p>If you don't use it, then it's on you. Just because you did not use it doesn't entitle you to a refund, that's not the way this kind of service subscription works. When you keep paying a subscription <em>that you agreed to allow to recurr when you first subscribed</em> you will continue to be billed unless you specifically state you want that account cancelled. Calling CS and saying you don't want to pay anymore means they'll cancel the account you tell them about. They're not going to dig through and go "Oh, that customer must have wanted us to cancel this other account he has but didn't tell us about."</p><p>Anyone that does not look at their credit card statements is begging to lose. Really, how hard is it to take 5 minutes a month and look at it?</p>

[Gortha]

<p>Blaming the service because you didn't do your due dilligence is not their fault - this is on you and you alone.</p><p>I want my 3 minutes back...where's my refund?!?!?!</p>

[Jrral]

<p><cite>Wanabeelee wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Tell me this.  I charge $125.00 an hour for network services.  It would be the same as someone calling me and making an appoint me on monday for friday.  On thursday they cancel the call.  Is it fair to bill the person $125.00?  No service was used. Smart business would be to not charge the $125.00 min, and not upset the client, so that you get future business from them.</p></blockquote><p>No, and on that you're right. But your case is one of them making an appointment for Friday, then when you show up on Friday they aren't in. Then on the Monday <em>after</em> the appointment, they call you saying they didn't really want the appointment and can you retroactively cancel it. And in <em>that</em> case standard practice is to <em>not</em> refund the charge, because whether there was any work done or not they still cost you the time standing around waiting for them when you could have scheduled someone else for that time.</p><p>The main problem here seems to be that you didn't tell them to cancel the accounts in question. You called about one account, and expected them to find all your other accounts. That's not their job, it's yours to tell them which accounts you're talking about.</p><p>Note that I for one, and probably CS as well, would have much more respect for you if you'd've simply said "I messed up and didn't get those accounts cancelled when I should have, can you do anything for me?". But cop your kind of attitude and my first reaction is to fall back on the letter of policy and not cut you any slack I don't have to.</p>

[urgthock]

<p><strong>If</strong> you contacted Sony's customer service department and informed them that you wanted to cancel you accounts (providing them with the necessary billing and/or account information they would request at that time), then you did in fact perform the due diligence required on your part and Sony is obligated to refund your money. However, the issue lies in the if<strong> </strong>that began my statement. The wording you utilized can be extremely important for any case you might want to make. And since I highly doubt you took certain steps to validate and document who you spoke with and what you stated to them, it will be very difficult for you to prove your claim. Most people don't record what they feel are "standard" conversations that they don't expect to come back to bite them on the butt.</p>

[Yimway]

<p>Just call your credit card and have them reverse all charges from SoE for the last 90 days.</p><p>That's about all recourse you have.</p>

[Geothe]

<p>I'd consider this a stupid tax.</p><p>If you were stupid enough not to cancel your own stuff.Then you deserve to be taxed for your stupidity by paying what you should of been grown-up enough to take care of on your own.</p>

[Barx]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Just call your credit card and have them reverse all charges from SoE for the last 90 days.</p><p>That's about all recourse you have.</p></blockquote><p>Some folks would call that Fraud.</p><p>Service was made available, which is all that you pay for. Just because you didn't use it does not give you the right to demand a refund.</p>

[Azekah1]

<p>I bought a game on a cell phone, then returned the cell phone and got a new one. I didn't notice they were charging me monthly for the game on the phone I didn't have anymore until a few months in. I got a refund, but they said it would be a one time thing and it was my responsibilty to check my bill.</p>

[Wingrider01]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Just call your credit card and have them reverse all charges from SoE for the last 90 days.</p><p>That's about all recourse you have.</p></blockquote><p>that is not a valid recourse, service was provided, the end user did not use the service.</p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>Wingrider01 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Just call your credit card and have them reverse all charges from SoE for the last 90 days.</p><p>That's about all recourse you have.</p></blockquote><p>that is not a valid recourse, service was provided, the end user did not use the service.</p></blockquote><p>No, its is a valid dispute system.  When a merchant does not handle an issue to your satisfaction it is a valid method of recourse that involves a form of 3rd party mediation.</p><p>The credit card company will remove the funds from SoE and tentatively credit the customer back.  If SoE then disputes the chargeback, both parties will be required to fill out a justification form.  The credit card company will then decide to keep the chargeback in, re-fund the company, or choose to eat the charges themselves.</p><p>But, it is ALWAYS a valid form of complaint resolution on services provided.  The credit card company may listen to your justification and refuse to take action on it of course, but its the only remidiation left available at this point.  Every day he waits in taking that action is potentially more funds lost as there is a 90 day statute on how far back funds can be revoked by thru the merchant system.</p>

[Kendayar]

<p><cite>Levatino wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Kendayar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>get a game card. it's like prepaid time for your account.</blockquote><p>well to be honest if you live in Holland such a card is not easy to get.. And i know, cause I'm a gameshop owner..</p><p>Wow card are available on every corner but SOE cards..</p></blockquote><p>hardly see em where i am in the states too. I usually buy the cards online because of that.</p>

[woolf2k]

<p>you haven't said anything... </p><p>sounds like you screwed up and now are blaming everybody else except for yourself... typical victocrat mentality we see more and more these days...</p>

[Wingrider01]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Wingrider01 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Just call your credit card and have them reverse all charges from SoE for the last 90 days.</p><p>That's about all recourse you have.</p></blockquote><p>that is not a valid recourse, service was provided, the end user did not use the service.</p></blockquote><p>No, its is a valid dispute system.  When a merchant does not handle an issue to your satisfaction it is a valid method of recourse that involves a form of 3rd party mediation.</p><p>The credit card company will remove the funds from SoE and tentatively credit the customer back.  If SoE then disputes the chargeback, both parties will be required to fill out a justification form.  The credit card company will then decide to keep the chargeback in, re-fund the company, or choose to eat the charges themselves.</p><p>But, it is ALWAYS a valid form of complaint resolution on services provided.  The credit card company may listen to your justification and refuse to take action on it of course, but its the only remidiation left available at this point.  Every day he waits in taking that action is potentially more funds lost as there is a 90 day statute on how far back funds can be revoked by thru the merchant system.</p></blockquote><p>Where is the fault? the cc company will not refund anything until an investigation has occurred, that will involve the complaintant to supply proof they did indeed request the termination, the bottom line question here is - why did the person let it go on for so long? </p><p>I did not say that the <span style="text-decoration: underline;">method</span> was not a valid method of dispute, just that the dispute was not valid. Credit card companies do not do this without extensive verification of the dispute.</p>

[TSR-DanielH]

<p><cite>Wingrider01 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Just call your credit card and have them reverse all charges from SoE for the last 90 days.</p><p>That's about all recourse you have.</p></blockquote><p>that is not a valid recourse, service was provided, the end user did not use the service.</p></blockquote><p>It doesn't seem like anyone in this thread is actually requesting technical assisting but I thought I'd go over this point.</p><p>What you are suggesting is essentially fraud and we will report it to the bank as such.  Considering the fees that are applied to us from a successful chargeback, we have a group of people just for handling those cases.  Generally speaking, we will explain the situation to the bank and will retrieve the money that was charged back.</p><p>Regarding the original post, I'm betting that the representative you spoke with has provided you with the e-mail address for our accounts administrator, Lyman Tuttle.  We will usually provide his e-mail address when someone is requesting a refund that isn't allowed by our policies.  If you haven't already then I would advise contacting him regarding the situation.</p>